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pippin
2012-10-04, 15:39
Now... I've hinted at this here and there and iPeng's facebook page admittedly is a little bit ahead with this, but not it's time to talk about iPeng 2.0 here, too.

Yes, iPeng 2.0.

iPhone 5 is out, has a different form factor, iPeng for iPhone hasn't seen a UI change in two years, so it's time for something new :)

Here we go, first little bit to be revealed...

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epoch1970
2012-10-04, 18:08
My my my. Does this mean iPad will lose its baby blue color scheme??

GeeJay
2012-10-04, 18:14
Cool! I just got the new iPhone, so I'm looking forward to a new iPeng.

pippin
2012-10-04, 18:20
My my my. Does this mean iPad will lose its baby blue color scheme??

Actually no, at least not now. This is iPhone/iPod only.
iPad needs different changes

hvb83
2012-10-05, 00:28
Wow, and I thought iPeng just couldn't be improved anymore? Maybe that's just my lack of imagination... :D

Still too early to tell since we don't know anything about the new version, but great news that there is something new coming along. Will it work on 3GS/4 and 5, or will it be 5 only? Btw, if I need to buy a new app because it's iOS6, I completely understand. I bought the app 3 years ago, that's 0,007 per day. Meanwhile the app has just been improved over and over again, without any additional costs. Ok, including the app for my gf's phone, the iPad app, playback and the app I bought for my sister it comes to 4 cents a day. But that's still a ridiculous amount for the iPhone app I use the most, by far.

pippin
2012-10-05, 05:32
No, it will of course not only work on iPhone 5. iPhone 5 and iOS 6 just provided some motivation and also eased some pains:

1. There was the NEED for a redesign of at least the NowPlaying screen to make it use on iPhone 5 and to use the added space

2. Since support for iPhone 5 and iOS 6 forces you to drop support for ARM6 based devices (iPhone 3G - NOT 3GS, that still works - and iPod touch 2nd Gen., you can't compile for them with the new development kit) there is no reason to not use iOS 5 as a baseline requirement anymore (all ARM7 based devices can run iOS 5) which allows for FAR more customization than iOS 4. That header bar you are seeing in the screen shot would either not have been possible at all under iOS 4 or it would at least have been an utter PIA to do everything yourself.

So... Everything that's still supported by Apple (iPhone from 3GS, iPod touch from 3rd Gen) will work with the new iPeng but you will need at least iOS 5. It looks a _little_ bit better on iOS 6, there have been some design changes to standard UI elements in 6 that fit the new design better. It definitely looks better on retina displays (obviously), all main menu icons are now available in retina resolution.

mps
2012-10-05, 05:48
Nice to get some good squeezebox news for a change! I'll use it on my brand new Touch!

Thanks, Pippin!

gorman
2012-10-05, 05:58
pippin, apart from UI considerations, what's the current state on these features?

1) Replaygain
2) Crossfade
3) Playback of different formats (FLAC, Ogg, etc., giving MP3 and AAC for granted)
4) Caching of songs for mobile use with the playback function (similar to what iSub does with Subsonic)

It might be that everything has already been implemented perfectly. But I haven't been on top of recent upgrades and I'd like to clear things up before asking useless questions (so I basically round them all up here ;) ).

pippin
2012-10-05, 06:09
pippin, apart from UI considerations, what's the current state on these features?

No new features... well, except one carryover from iPad... in this release.


1) Replaygain
2) Crossfade

They are the same thing. It's a bit of a tradeoff, it will make other things worse, we are considering it....


3) Playback of different formats (FLAC, Ogg, etc., giving MP3 and AAC for granted)

??? All of these have always worked natively in iPeng. The only one that doesn't (and never will) is WMA. No other formats are supported by the server so there is no point in supporting them in iPeng. OK, mp2, but that's so backwards and rarely used that we are not going to do our own codec implementation just for that. Transcode it.



4) Caching of songs for mobile use with the playback function (similar to what iSub does with Subsonic)


You can't do it like that with the Squeezebox server, would have to have a server instance running on the device.

I want to do a local caching/syncing, but that's a HUGE amount of work and there are still other things to be done before that. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as with Android, where you can just throw it into the device's own library.

With Subsonic, the whole system implementation is made for remote access, with the Squeezebox, it's not. One example: it's a total PIA to setup the stream again in the same place (and has a <50% chance of succeeding) once you lose the control connection to the server, making too much caching pointless.
So an offline mode will require a completely separate playback and control logic and that in turn means you need additional information you don't process when using the server.
It's really a different player then.

gorman
2012-10-05, 07:50
Thanks Pippin for your answers, I really appreciate it. I'm just thinking about a "Squeezebox-less" world and thinking what I might be missing in it. Your player is one of the best long term chances of keeping my setup going.

Although I have one SB2 and one Boom in storage, for rainy days. :)

As for the formats... doh! I told you I wasn't up to speed.

Playback is already gapless, right? And sorry for hijacking the discussion. I just wanted a complete picture before delving into all the new goodies you're introducing. :D

pippin
2012-10-05, 08:12
Yes, playback is gapless and yes, sync works just fine, too :)
Here's yesterday's news ;)
http://penguinlovesmusic.de/2012/08/14/ipeng-goes-audiophile/

gorman
2012-10-05, 08:28
Pippin, I'm afraid to know the answer but still... the HDMI output is available for iPad. Would there be any way that iPeng could playback multichannel FLAC files (I'm thinking about my DVD-Audio material that I would lose forever once my now old Pioneer 747 dies, bound to happen sooner or later)?

pippin
2012-10-05, 08:44
No, because the server won't deliver that.

Aesculus
2012-10-05, 08:54
No new features... well, except one carryover from iPad... in this release.

I want to do a local caching/syncing, but that's a HUGE amount of work and there are still other things to be done before that. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as with Android, where you can just throw it into the device's own library.

With Subsonic, the whole system implementation is made for remote access, with the Squeezebox, it's not. One example: it's a total PIA to setup the stream again in the same place (and has a <50% chance of succeeding) once you lose the control connection to the server, making too much caching pointless.
So an offline mode will require a completely separate playback and control logic and that in turn means you need additional information you don't process when using the server.
It's really a different player then.

Could you use the new HTML 5 audio playback (only iOS6) to manage the local library? The user would have to dupe tracks (maybe iPeng could assist?) but then iPeng would be the standard player or all audio?

pippin
2012-10-05, 09:02
That's only good for single tracks.

pippin
2012-10-05, 12:12
To get back on topic.... another detail.

Wonder when somebody will ask that question I've been waiting for all the time :)

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kidstypike
2012-10-05, 12:23
To get back on topic.... another detail.

Wonder when somebody will ask that question I've been waiting for all the time :)

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Do you get wafers with it?

maggior
2012-10-05, 12:58
I had to laugh because I I happen to be listening to Muse at the moment (The 2nd Law).

I'm intrigued to see what the new UI is going to look like. Looks good so far :-).

maggior
2012-10-05, 12:59
To get back on topic.... another detail.

Wonder when somebody will ask that question I've been waiting for all the time :)



Will it blend?

bluegaspode
2012-10-05, 13:19
Will it blend?

They did that test with an iPhone, didn't they?
Doubt that iPeng could prevent that? :D

kidstypike
2012-10-05, 13:41
To get back on topic.... another detail.

Wonder when somebody will ask that question I've been waiting for all the time :)

How often does it need mowing?

No, scrap that one ... I've got it!

When does it hit the app store?

alexj700
2012-10-05, 14:55
Great news....

Can I ask one question that always has been in my mind since the beggining of iPeng app?

Could we be able to watch covers in the folders mode? I can see covers of CDs in almost all views into the app, except in "folders" mode, despite all folders have "folder.jpg" inside it...

Sorry If I am breaking something...

pippin
2012-10-05, 16:31
They did that test with an iPhone, didn't they?
Doubt that iPeng could prevent that? :D

Never underestimate the power of the penguin!

I wonder when somebody will build a phone that actually does not blend, just as a marketing gag. Might be pretty hard, though.


How often does it need mowing?

No, scrap that one ... I've got it!

When does it hit the app store?

:) If I knew that, I would already hold it back.
http://reviewtimes.shinydevelopment.com/
I submitted it yesterday, so based on that trend there's a chance it sees the store next weekend if all goes well. If not, then probably sometimes until the weekend thereafter.

But no, that's not the question. I'm happy if nobody asks, because the answer would be "unfortunately not, maybe with iOS 7...."



Could we be able to watch covers in the folders mode? I can see covers of CDs in almost all views into the app, except in "folders" mode, despite all folders have "folder.jpg" inside it...


No, as much as I would love to see that. There is no artwork info for folders. I briefly considered drilling down into the folder and grabbing the first artwork I find but the performance of the server is so bad that that would risk bringing the whole thing down on some systems and certainly causing stuttering playback with bigger folders on all systems.
There's already an issue when just using the CLI API to play a whole folder so that I had to optionally introduce the "native" folder mode which doesn't show artwork at all.

The problem is that whenever you browse into a folder, that folder gets scanned, if you do that on a lot of folders to retrieve artwork, it's like doing a full rescan on the server process while using the server at the same time.

CharlieG
2012-10-05, 20:08
Wonder when somebody will ask that question I've been waiting for all the time :)

Probably not the question your are waiting for, but...will it display multiple artist on the now playing screen?

pippin
2012-10-05, 20:14
Only if the standard CLI status returns them.... probably not the answer you were looking for... sorry, but that would have been too much change at a time.

CharlieG
2012-10-05, 20:23
Only if the standard CLI status returns them.... probably not the answer you were looking for... sorry, but that would have been too much change at a time.

I figured as much. I'm not really complaining, just trying make sure you don't forget this. I take extra time to tag songs with the multiple artists (when they have multiple artist), so I think this would be a good feature.

pippin
2012-10-05, 20:33
I don't forget it, but it's one of the biggest changes I could make to iPeng internally and it requires a lot of testing. Actually my experience with testing hasn't been too good recently. I have a few beta testers that report a lot of issues but they have only a few setups and this would require regression testing with server versions all the way back to 7.3 and there is zero documentation about the expected behavior on all of these versions.

The problem is not the artists field but that if I switch the queries _everything_ I get as a player status will come in a different format. Alarms, playlists, player states, special buttons, everything. The likelihood of breaking something in iPeng's basic functionality and only learning about it at the customer is huge. Not the kind of changes you want to make with a major release focussed at design.

kidstypike
2012-10-06, 02:06
But no, that's not the question. I'm happy if nobody asks, because the answer would be "unfortunately not, maybe with iOS 7...."

Will it run TinyLMS?

pippin
2012-10-06, 05:48
:) Ah, do you ever read Apples App Store rules? ;)

kidstypike
2012-10-06, 05:50
:) Ah, do you ever read Apples App Store rules? ;)

Does anyone? :)

pippin
2012-10-06, 10:28
Now for the other end.

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dsdreamer
2012-10-06, 18:25
Since Logitech exited the SB hardware market, it would not be a competitive issue for you to offer a Mac OS X version on that App Store. I'm sure many of us could see the benefit of this, including the ability have client and server on the same machine with high resolution bits out (SPDIF and USB) to a nice DAC.

pippin
2012-10-07, 07:41
Well, I wouldn't have seen a competitive issue otherwise, too.
It's not as simple as I originally thought. Probably a project for when I have done a redesign of the iPad App, too. I might have a better idea for OSX, though... let's see...

pippin
2012-10-07, 15:00
So, here's the full screen (iPhone 5 format).

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/77773_163095703828243_537014683_o.jpg

carp
2012-10-08, 01:27
Wonder when somebody will ask that question I've been waiting for all the time :)
What does "Joergs iPhone" mean? :-)

Pascal Hibon
2012-10-08, 01:51
I still have and use my iTouch 2nd gen a lot (it still works fine and it does what I need it to do). I have no plans bying a new iTouch in the immediate future. Are you planning on discontinuing iPeng version 1 when version 2 comes along? Or will those 2 products live side by side?

pippin
2012-10-08, 02:06
You can't have two versions of the same App on the App Store so it would have to be a separate App and everybody would have to purchase it again.
While this would have it's merits for me :) , I don't think it's something a lot of people would like.

Besides: it would be pretty hard to still provide updates for the old version. I do still have an old version of XCode around but all of the code base is now quickly moving to 5.0.

It's a pity (I have two of these devices I still use myself) but, no, that will no longer be supported.
Make sure to keep a backup copy of your current iPeng version (the iPeng<version>.ipa file in iTunes)!

atz6975
2012-10-08, 04:13
iOS7:
Can we get control on lock screen or notification area or widget...


Envoy&#233; depuis mon Xperia Arc avec Tapatalk

pippin
2012-10-08, 04:25
Control on lock screen works with iPeng since iOS 5

Pascal Hibon
2012-10-08, 04:36
You can't have two versions of the same App on the App Store so it would have to be a separate App and everybody would have to purchase it again.
While this would have it's merits for me :) , I don't think it's something a lot of people would like.

Besides: it would be pretty hard to still provide updates for the old version. I do still have an old version of XCode around but all of the code base is now quickly moving to 5.0.

It's a pity (I have two of these devices I still use myself) but, no, that will no longer be supported.
Make sure to keep a backup copy of your current iPeng version (the iPeng<version>.ipa file in iTunes)!

Not really what I wanted to hear but thank you for an honest answer. Appreciate that.
Ill make a backup copy of that file. Thanks for the tip.

pippin
2012-10-08, 04:44
Well, it's also not really the answer I'd like to give, but I don't really see a way around it.

DubMarc
2012-10-08, 11:15
But no, that's not the question. I'm happy if nobody asks, because the answer would be "unfortunately not, maybe with iOS 7...."

Does that mean that the question has something to do with rumored iOS 7 capability? Or just that it would take a long time to implement the item in question?

pippin
2012-10-08, 11:20
It has to do with something I can NOT do up to and including iOS6. At least not without completely changing the way iPeng's main menu works (taking away the configurable tab bar items at the bottom) or manually re-programming that standard-iOS-control, which I'm not going to do.

But since nobody asked, yet, it doesn't seem as important with the redesign, it used to be one of the most commonly asked questions in the past...

I don't think there will be anything like a "rumored iOS 7 capability" until 6 months or so from now.

epoch1970
2012-10-08, 11:27
You can't have two versions of the same App on the App Store so it would have to be a separate App and everybody would have to purchase it again.
While this would have it's merits for me :) , I don't think it's something a lot of people would like.
None of my business, but would it possible to add a new product, say "iPeng Legacy", that could be bought by those who might come across and old-gen iThing in the future ?
And for those who will d'Oh! and remove their old-gen-compatible copy of iPeng while upgrading, super-discount "iPeng Legacy" when the account also has purchased the current iPeng.

Disregard if this doesn't make any sense.

EDIT: Frozen iPeng ?

pippin
2012-10-08, 11:40
The fact aside that I don't know whether I can still get a (new) App into the store that's not doen with the iOS 6 SDK (I don't know, would have to read that up), it would have a few issues:
1. Apple hates it when you populate the App Store with "similar" Apps - OK, you could argue that this is not the case here.
2. The discount is a nice idea and I would have loved to do that already for iPeng for iPad, but there is no such thing as discounts on the App Store.

Cydia Store would be a way but that's contractually forbidden by Apple...

But the main point is: what would be the point? If you already have iPeng as it is, you can keep a copy. It's highly unlikely to get any new features in the future since I will be damned to not use new APIs that make your life so much easier and even only make a lot of things possible for anything new I write (starting with some nice syntax changes in Objective-C, like additional object literals)

So it would only be useful for all the people who haven't purchased iPeng, yet, and own an iPod touch 2G or iPhone 3G. So here's the hint: if somebody of you reading this is in this group: you've probably got 3-4 more days to go, hopefully not more.

epoch1970
2012-10-08, 12:00
But the main point is: what would be the point? If you already have iPeng as it is, you can keep a copy.
But I won't keep a copy, like 99.9% of your user base (and their partners/kids…)
Besides, I don't know how to shuffle an old version of some app into iTunes, along with the latest version I also have use for. I guess I don't know because I don't want to bother with that.

On the other hand, if I stumble upon an old iPod, I guess I'd be glad to pay 1 or 2 E and turn this iPod into a usable SB remote or even player. That still would be a cheap deal.
And if I recklessly upgraded, a Frozen iPeng version in the store could still give a choice. Usually the errors I make cost me more than 1E..

Anyway, I don't want to push the argument further: I do not have an old iOS-based iPod…

pippin
2012-10-08, 12:26
OK, time for the next bit. We've had the menu screen, let's move on to NowPlaying.

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Benefactor
2012-10-08, 14:27
Can this thread please be dumbed down for me a bit?

I just purchased my first Apple product...my first "smartphone" ever...an iPhone 4s.

I purchased iPeng the other day, and while I am still figuring out all the stuff it does as far as running the three squeezeboxes in my home goes, it does seem to be one of the cooler things to come along since sliced bread.

I assume that Pippin here is the author of iPeng? (sorry if that is overly obvious).

Thank you for such a great utility! I can't really fathom the kind of work that goes into creating something like iPeng.

What will this new version of iPeng mean to me?

How does one back up the iPeng .ipa file? Is that file located in a folder within the iTunes application itself?

I'm really sorry for all these novice questions...and thank you for humoring me.

pippin
2012-10-08, 14:41
I purchased iPeng the other day, and while I am still figuring out all the stuff it does as far as running the three squeezeboxes in my home goes, it does seem to be one of the cooler things to come along since sliced bread.

Thanks :)


I assume that Pippin here is the author of iPeng?

Indeed.


Thank you for such a great utility! I can't really fathom the kind of work that goes into creating something like iPeng.

Happy, if you are!


What will this new version of iPeng mean to me?

iPeng gets a new user interface that looks like in these screen shots and that you hopefully will find to be better looking and even more user friendly. From the feedback I got from my beta testers I'm quite optimistic in this respect.
You will get it offered as a free update through the App Store as soon as Apple releases it.


How does one back up the iPeng .ipa file? Is that file located in a folder within the iTunes application itself?


EDIT: There's a simple way to backup the .ipa file: just drag it somewhere on your hard drive from the "Apps" section in iTunes.
EDIT2: wrong video, this is the right one. Forget about the "control-a" stuff, that's just to select _all_ apps (in the video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHoPNrTDRPg

That said: unless you are afraid that the new version would be something you don't like, right now there is no need to backup for an iPhone 4s. The 4s comes with iOS 5 preinstalled so will support iPeng for at least another year, probably at least two (since iOS 6 is of course available for it). The newest phone that is NOT supported anymore is the iPhone 3 which came out four years ago. It was still sold by Apple until two years ago, though, which is why some people still have working ones (mine is completely unusable, not just because it's an old platform but because it's physically coming apart after falling on the street a few times and the battery is completely down.... it's a four year old phone, only the Nokia 6310i ever survived that long for me).

"Still supported" means that you can re-download it from the App Store at any time. The only problem with "no longer being supported" is when a new version comes out that no longer supports your phone or iOS-version. Since you can always only have a single version of an App in the App Store, the new one then will no longer be compatible with the old device and you can't install it.



I'm really sorry for all these novice questions...and thank you for humoring me.
:)

Benefactor
2012-10-08, 14:55
Excellent, Pippin.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my post, and thank you again for iPeng.

You rock!

vicvondoom
2012-10-08, 15:43
To get back on topic.... another detail.

Wonder when somebody will ask that question I've been waiting for all the time :)



anything to do with Siri? now that would be sweeeeeet!

pippin
2012-10-08, 15:44
Well, Siri is certainly another thing that would be nice to have but where you currently have absolutely no access to as an App :)
I believe they have to implement all the Siri related stuff in Apple's backend.

bhaagensen
2012-10-09, 02:51
But since nobody asked, yet, it doesn't seem as important with the redesign, it used to be one of the most commonly asked questions in the past...


I know, I know - must be coverflow...? Would still be a sweet addition :)

Mnyb
2012-10-09, 03:27
replaygain ? :)

pippin
2012-10-09, 04:48
I know, I know - must be coverflow...? Would still be a sweet addition :)

Hm, that would not really be a technical limitation, you would just have to do it yourself.
I'm not 100% sure, though, that it doesn't fall into Apple's "don't mimic our Music App" restriction. Plus, cool as it is, I always found it pretty useless except for bragging...

epoch1970
2012-10-09, 05:24
Gestures maybe ?

cajole to repeat
shake to shuffle
slap to stop
clobber to quit

pippin
2012-10-09, 05:30
Shake to shuffle is patented by Sony
Quit is not allowed for an App on the App Store.

There are left- and right-swipe gestures on the landscape NowPlaying screen for skip in 2.0, though, and you can pan to zoom the artwork size on NowPlaying

simonjedrake
2012-10-09, 05:50
pippin

Love the screen shots of the new updated version - you are taking the app into a new league.
Thinking back a year or so ago, I asked the question of will we ever have a iPeng version which allows a user changeable colour scheme - is this the "hinted" question by the way?

Simon

pippin
2012-10-09, 05:59
BINGO!!!
The point is, you still can't change the font color on the "more" menu which iPeng uses as a main menu so dark color schemes are not an option as long as I want to keep the configurable tab bar buttons.

For a while, everyone was asking "can I have it in black". And the answer, at least until iOS 7, is "no".

simonjedrake
2012-10-09, 06:30
BINGO!!!
The point is, you still can't change the font color on the "more" menu which iPeng uses as a main menu so dark color schemes are not an option as long as I want to keep the configurable tab bar buttons.

For a while, everyone was asking "can I have it in black". And the answer, at least until iOS 7, is "no".

Thought I would strike hot with this one...........................

pippin
2012-10-09, 14:35
Next image: Here's the full NowPlaying screen (iPhone 5)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576256_163724360432044_283264388_n.jpg

spedinfargo
2012-10-09, 15:06
Well, Siri is certainly another thing that would be nice to have but where you currently have absolutely no access to as an App :)
I believe they have to implement all the Siri related stuff in Apple's backend.

Have you ever looked into the Dragon Mobile SDK for iOS? http://www.nuance.com/for-developers/dragon/index.htm

"The Dragon NaturallySpeaking software developer kit (SDK) is used by developers and integrators to add speech recognition capabilities into in-house and commercial applications or workflow applications. This toolkit, which enables everything from free-text dictation to command and control functionality, can be deployed as part of a server- or client-based solution."

(I'm the one who is always looking for some way to do basic voice-control of my squeezebox ecosystem... and usually get booed off the stage when I bring it up...)

ftlight
2012-10-09, 16:35
What does "Joergs iPhone" mean? :-)

And will the English translation have an apostrophe?

GeeJay
2012-10-09, 16:37
I like how the extra screen real estate allows you to use larger fonts on the Now Playing screen, and not have to squeeze all the information into the header bar as you have with the current version. Very nice!

garym
2012-10-09, 17:01
I like how the extra screen real estate allows you to use larger fonts on the Now Playing screen, and not have to squeeze all the information into the header bar as you have with the current version. Very nice!

agree, but how will ipeng 2.0 work with, for example, a 4S that is running OS6 but doesn't have the extra screen real estate.

pippin
2012-10-09, 18:18
And will the English translation have an apostrophe?

Yes. But in the German one that would be wrong ;)

@spedinfargo I'm not a fan of voice control. I've seen a lot of them over the years and I have yet to see a useful one. And that definitely includes Siri. Voice control will become useful the very moment a computer truely understands what you say.

pippin
2012-10-09, 18:22
agree, but how will ipeng 2.0 work with, for example, a 4S that is running OS6 but doesn't have the extra screen real estate.

I should add a screen shot of that, too.
On old devices you have the choice between using a smaller cover and an overlay plus the font is a bit smaller (yet still bigger than in 1.x)
The text had to go somewhere after the header bar space was taken so better do it right...

pippin
2012-10-10, 15:02
OK, let's answer the question and get somewhat further off from the facebook page :)
Here's how iPeng looks on an iPhone 4 (no, the scale is because I can't upload well right now). These are the two alternatives between which you can choose.
Personally, I prefer the one with the smaller cover, so that's the default.

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MelonMonkey
2012-10-11, 07:09
Can you share any more details about any changes to Landscape view? It's been needing updating for a long time and it will be very welcome when you can do everything in this orientation.

Back to what's been shown already...

How about an option to remove the volume slider at the bottom? That will remove a totally useless UI element and make more room on the screen.

Here are the ways that already exist to adjust volume:

hardware volume buttons
volume buttons on headphones
volume buttons on speaker dock
volume knob/buttons on amplifier

Honestly, I can't see any point in time where using an on-screen volume slider would be more useful than hardware buttons that will be present in nearly every usage scenario.

I'd also love to see the YEAR of the album displayed.

Does this new version of iPeng preserve one's customized menu along the bottom? Even when iPeng doesn't connect to the server right away?

dsdreamer
2012-10-11, 07:24
Can't agree that the graphical volume slider is redundant. The hardware buttons are nice for people who know about them, but it's the not the first place new users will look to control the volume.

kidstypike
2012-10-11, 07:29
Can't agree that the graphical volume slider is redundant. The hardware buttons are nice for people who know about them, but it's the not the first place new users will look to control the volume.

+1

It also gives a visual indication of volume setting.

pippin
2012-10-11, 07:34
Can you share any more details about any changes to Landscape view? It's been needing updating for a long time and it will be very welcome when you can do everything in this orientation.

Oh... Landscape mode. How I regret to ever have introduced this... It's such a nuisance...

But yes. Most things work in landscape mode now. You can bring down the player control, you can select players...
NowPlaying screen is still a screen saver but there are gestures for next/previous skipping (swipe left/right)


How about an option to remove the volume slider at the bottom? That will remove a totally useless UI element and make more room on the screen.

I actually thought about it for iPhone 4. It's still not enough room for the whole title, though (only half of what's required).
Also, you are very wrong about it being useless:


hardware volume buttons

Except for iPeng as a player, these can go away any moment! It's a feature completely forbidden by Apple. It works because I bind it to the volume of the device itself which is not actually redefining the functionality but Apple might still change their mind on it at any time! So better not to talk about it too much, especially not advertise it...

That aside: it's not nearly exact enough. It only changes volume in steps of +/- 5 (if used with iPeng Playback it's even +/- 10 because that's what iOS does). At low volumes that's definitely not fine enough, at least with good headphones, here I frequently even use the "1" volume level.

The same is true for a lot of docks or external amps connected to the Squeezeboxes that have a non-linear scale and need very fine volume tuning.

Actually I found that for some reason most people don't use the volume buttons at all.


volume buttons on headphones

Not on all headphones, same problem


volume buttons on speaker dock
volume knob/buttons on amplifier

Sorry, iPeng is a REMOTE CONTROL. Walking up to a device to change the volume is a most definite no-go.


I'd also love to see the YEAR of the album displayed.

Hm. Might think about that one. Did anybody ever file a ticket for this?
It was asked for for the album display (the content of an album) and it's showing there now.


Does this new version of iPeng preserve one's customized menu along the bottom? Even when iPeng doesn't connect to the server right away?

It always did. It just changes while you are not connected (it can't show empty tabs) and changes back to what you configured when you reconnect to the server unless you make manual changes in which case iPeng can't know you didn't mean it.
I always use iPeng with 3 or 4 different servers and it always comes back to my manually configured setup that's only available on my main server when I connect, this actually works very well. I know that because I have a menu on there (Audiobooks) that's a CustomBrowse menu and only available on that server.

MelonMonkey
2012-10-11, 08:35
Do you store different configurations of iPeng's icon row depending on the server one is connected to? If not, then the user's choice should be reflected as soon as the app loads - it looks strange having the icons suddenly change.

Also, when we dismiss the tips/help one time, will they now stop coming back? With the previous/current releases I can't remember how many different times I have to cancel/dismiss the tips/help.

Here's my situation for the volume control: When I'm using iPeng as a player, I never use the slider for volume. Either the iPhone is locked and one doesn't have access to the screen anyway, so the hardware buttons are used. If I wake the display, I continue to use the hardware buttons because that's what I was already using. If the phone is docked, then the docks I use already have more easily reached volume controls that work whether the screen is on or off - or the iPhone is being remotely controlled with the dock's remote or another instance of iPeng.

If the phone is being used as a remote it means I'm primarily controlling my hifi system and I keep Squeezebox output fixed at 100% - why would I use the volume control on a source component when that's the job of the pre-amp? The volume is controlled only via the pre-amp and/or a universal controller.

I suggested it as an OPTION so if someone wants to continue to use the on-screen slider they can feel free to do so. I do realize that Apple's own music app also features an on-screen volume slider, but that App is so poorly designed I don't know where to start. For regular music playback I tend to use CarTunes already, which while not perfect, is a lot better than the stock player app. What bugs me the most about the standard playback app/infrastructure is the complete lack of a now-playing playlist which can be modified on the fly. It's full albums or nothing right now. Which I believe is one of the reasons you're seeing some people asking for playback of local music. You really should consider taking your UI and refining it into another app for local playback. It will be quite a bit of additional work, but I think there's a good market for alternative music players. Most of the third-party ones are very (very) bad.

For someone else, there is no "new user" that doesn't know about the hardware volume buttons on the phone. That's frankly a little preposterous, since the hardware buttons are the primary way, the de-facto way, to adjust volume on the iPhone.

saeyedoc
2012-10-11, 08:58
I like the ability to change the volume with the slider when I'm using the SB radio. The touch is and should be on fixed volume if using the digital output.

pippin
2012-10-11, 09:05
Do you store different configurations of iPeng's icon row depending on the server one is connected to? If not, then the user's choice should be reflected as soon as the app loads - it looks strange having the icons suddenly change.

It does so as soon as it can but not all menus are available on all servers so iPeng can't put them there until the menu becomes available. No albums, artists, whatever on MySqueezebox.com, Spotify et al. are even per-player menus.
As soon as the menu gets available, it gets moved in place.


Also, when we dismiss the tips/help one time, will they now stop coming back? With the previous/current releases I can't remember how many different times I have to cancel/dismiss the tips/help.

Once per tip. Which version are you using? Are you maybe using a jailbreak that prevents iPeng from storing any settings in it's user defaults? That would also explain why you can't keep the button bar as it's supposed to be.

iPeng never brings up the popup automatically again after you've seen it once, unless there is a major release change (2.0 will bring them back the first time since 1.2, I believe).


Here's my situation for the volume control: <snip>

Yes, I understand that. However, it's not everybody's situation


I suggested it as an OPTION so if someone wants to continue to use the on-screen slider they can feel free to do so.

I understand. But first: you know how I think about options: iPeng does already have too many of them (I'm happy to have been able to remove one in iPeng 2.0)
And then: what do I put there when the slider is gone? It's either something that's not necessary or something that needs an alternative place when the slider IS present.
I seriously considered to remove the slider (actually the whole lower bar) for iPeng 2.0 on 3,5" devices but found it too cumbersome to bring it back and it needed to be the full bar to make any sense. The slider alone is only big enough for a single row of text.



For someone else, there is no "new user" that doesn't know about the hardware volume buttons on the phone. That's frankly a little preposterous, since the hardware buttons are the primary way, the de-facto way, to adjust volume on the iPhone.
Yes, but as I said: most iPeng users are not aware of that feature and don't use it and I can't advertise it.
Plus, lack of a volume bar was the #1 complaint when Spotify's iPad App came out :)

There is: btw, one other aspect: the buttons are NOT a drop-in replacement for the volume bar, especially not if you use synced players or if you use iPeng's playback. If you use iPeng's playback, the buttons will no longer control other players (because they control iPeng's own player and I can't change that). And for groups the same is true for groups where iPeng's player is one of the players in a group, then the buttons will no longer act on the whole group but only on the iThingy you are running iPeng on.

epoch1970
2012-10-11, 09:10
I control the volume on almost all my amps with IR blaster, through the SB, and iPeng.
I need both the slider (for a Boom) and the software buttons (for IR Blaster).
When players are synchronized I prefer to adjust volumes separately for each source, and this means using the individual software buttons or sliders for each player.
I seldom use the hardware buttons on my iphone, about never on the ipad.

I guess that 1 for, 1 against, then.

pippin
2012-10-11, 09:13
You know that you can turn the group control off, don't you? That's one of these settings. Actually one I considered to remove. You are the first one in a while to tell me he's using separate control.

SushiDS
2012-10-11, 10:09
You considered to remove the option to control each player's volume seperately (when synched)? Please don't! That's the only way I use it...
But maybe you can put some numbers in the volume setting of the alarm-clock, to see how loud it will be...

pippin
2012-10-11, 10:13
Well, you'd still have the individual control sliders for each player. I'm only talking about having the main one only act on a single player.

But don't worry, I'm not removing the option.

And for the alarm clock: that's a bit of a hard one to do plus on iPhone the overlay would be just where your finger is.
Although I have to think about why I don't have numbers in the slider's cell... Maybe worth a ticket :)

garym
2012-10-11, 10:46
There is: btw, one other aspect: the buttons are NOT a drop-in replacement for the volume bar, especially not if you use synced players or if you use iPeng's playback. If you use iPeng's playback, the buttons will no longer control other players (because they control iPeng's own player and I can't change that). And for groups the same is true for groups where iPeng's player is one of the players in a group, then the buttons will no longer act on the whole group but only on the iThingy you are running iPeng on.

And this reason alone is why I prefer to leave the slider as a part of ipeng.

epoch1970
2012-10-11, 10:51
You know that you can turn the group control off, don't you? That's one of these settings. Actually one I considered to remove. You are the first one in a while to tell me he's using separate control.

No I don't know of that option (you can remove it!)
I open the players pop-up and hit the discrete volume buttons for the player I want (I only had 2 players with digital volume control, with which I can use the slider: 1 Boom, 1SB3) I think it's quite accessible, either on iPad or iPhone.

I adjust volumes separately because one volume press up or down does not have the same effect on each amp (differences in amps, in IR blaster settings), and in general I want to keep the source in the room I am presently in the front, and have the other players in the other rooms in the background. You can't get that with the group slider.
Also, when an IR blaster player is grouped with a digital attenuation player, results are rarely what I want: on my amps w/ IR Blaster I didn't get repeat presses to work, so the group will quickly unbalance. Usually with the IR-blaster controlled amp reduced to a very low volume, and the digital attenuation player at expected volume. And sometimes the other way around (much worse!)

I repeat. I think it works fine as is. Grouping between players that use digital volume control is very nice, and I guess this is the most common setup by far.

Steve Baumgarten
2012-10-11, 11:18
> +1
>
> It also gives a visual indication of volume setting.

As well as finer control over volume. I do use the visual slider in the
Music app on my iPhone.

SBB

pippin
2012-10-11, 13:19
@epoch
You should give the group volume slider a try. It's not a fixed volume changer but changes each players volume based on its current volume level. It works surprisingly well.

GeeJay
2012-10-11, 16:33
I love volume control the way you have it. I hope you don't remove the slider.

I've often wondered why SB Touch doesn't have an option to show the year of the album on the default Now Playing screen. I would love to see it on iPeng.

pippin
2012-10-11, 17:31
Now, since the landscape question came up, here's the answer: it looks just like in portrait.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/285616_164677477003399_1954513657_n.jpg

Parky
2012-10-13, 04:50
Great set of changes - thanks Pippin. The player control is much better now, before I had was sometimes confused as to how to associate players with sources (as for complex reasons I've got multiple servers).

Two comments though - I find the fact that some screens are mainly a dark blue/black theme and then the 'Home' screens a very pale blue a little bit jarring.

Second, and only a minor ui feature request is that when editing current playlist maybe you should 'grey-out' the trashcan slightly until at least one item has been selected, to direct users?

Minor points though as it's a great update to a fantastic way to control music.

pippin
2012-10-13, 05:39
Two comments though - I find the fact that some screens are mainly a dark blue/black theme and then the 'Home' screens a very pale blue a little bit jarring.

Well, I didn't want a light NowPlaying screen and you've read my technical comment about the main menu above, didn't you ;) Can't have that one in dark. Still not. Not even in iOS 6.

I knew that question would come up more often :)

Also, have you read the rationale about the coloring scheme here:
http://penguinlovesmusic.de/2012/10/13/ipeng-gets-fresh-new-ui-with-version-2-0/


Second, and only a minor ui feature request is that when editing current playlist maybe you should 'grey-out' the trashcan slightly until at least one item has been selected, to direct users?

Good point. Actually when testing a few days ago I got confused, too, because I thought just tapping that would clear the whole playlist with a confirmation popup like it was on the old trash icon on the NowPlaying main screen.
Maybe that's what I add in the next version: if nothing is selected, I open that "do you want to clear the whole playlist" thingy... or maybe not. That might be too confusing because people might think they always get a confirmation first and tapping "select all" at the bottom left is the same number of taps to clear your playlist. So maybe I do indeed just grey it out.



Minor points though as it's a great update to a fantastic way to control music.

Thanks :)

vagskal
2012-10-13, 08:40
I was curious and had a look at iPeng 2.0 on my iPad. It looks nicer than I remember from when I last used iPeng for iPhone. The drop down player control seems very handy.

Is the top grey bar partly obscuring the cover art in landscape mode in the now playing screen intentional?

pippin
2012-10-13, 09:40
Is the top grey bar partly obscuring the cover art in landscape mode in the now playing screen intentional?

No, but that's only on iPad. Usually it's transparent like the overlay you can bring up below it but there are no transparent status bars on iPad. Must have something to do with the iPhone-compatibility-mode. Actually the status bar is still _somewhat_ transparent but Apple put some ugly gradient on top of it.

vagskal
2012-10-13, 09:49
No, but that's only on iPad.

OK, I sort of suspected that since it looked really strange and unnecessary. I suppose a beautiful iPhone app like iPeng is not to be used on an iPad like that, but your teaser thread had effect and I wanted to have a look.

garym
2012-10-13, 10:17
Good point. Actually when testing a few days ago I got confused, too, because I thought just tapping that would clear the whole playlist with a confirmation popup like it was on the old trash icon on the NowPlaying main screen.
Maybe that's what I add in the next version: if nothing is selected, I open that "do you want to clear the whole playlist" thingy... or maybe not. That might be too confusing because people might think they always get a confirmation first and tapping "select all" at the bottom left is the same number of taps to clear your playlist. So maybe I do indeed just grey it out.


I'm confused with the playlist. I don't see any trashcan icon or anything on the playlist screen. I can add or delete songs from the playlist by pressing on songs and using menu. But I'm confused about how I simply clear the playlist completely (or SAVE the playlist with a name).

using iphone 4S, still running newest iOS 5.x.

pippin
2012-10-13, 10:26
Um. There is an edit button in the top right of the Playlist screen. Hit that and you get an additional edit toolbar.

pippin
2012-10-13, 10:26
Maybe I should bring back the trash can icon on the main toolbar when you are on the playlist screen only? As a compromise?

garym
2012-10-13, 10:29
Um. There is an edit button in the top right of the Playlist screen. Hit that and you get an additional edit toolbar.

duh! Somehow I was thinking that symbol was the symbol for synching players. Of course that is something totally different.

pippin
2012-10-13, 10:38
I used the same symbol for the edit mode on the MultiPlayer control back when I still lacked space there. It's supposed to be a "re-order rows" symbol.

Now, since there is no longer a track title to be shown on the MultiPlayer control, I use the normal edit button, which translates to a whopping "Bearbeiten" in the German iOS localization.

garym
2012-10-13, 10:43
I used the same symbol for the edit mode on the MultiPlayer control back when I still lacked space there. It's supposed to be a "re-order rows" symbol.

Now, since there is no longer a track title to be shown on the MultiPlayer control, I use the normal edit button, which translates to a whopping "Bearbeiten" in the German iOS localization.

Thanks. I'm not going completely crazy then. I'm liking the new version, even on a 4S.

andreofgyn
2012-10-13, 14:53
Hi,

Ipeng 2.0 is presenting a very weird behavior on my device (iphone 4 5.1.1), whenever I slide the volume on now playing screen, ipeng execute actions like restart the song or go to next song and sometimes the numeric volume indication stays on screen. If I change the volume via buttons or the slides on multiplayer control this problem doesn't happen. I'm controlling a squeezebox radio by the way. Previous versions did fine on my device.

Any clues?

Thanks.

pippin
2012-10-13, 14:58
I know. Will be fixed with the next update. A workaround is to move the slider slower.
The problem is that the gesture recognizers for skip that are used in the landscape mode are also active in portrait mode.

andreofgyn
2012-10-13, 15:00
Thanks pippin.

Parky
2012-10-14, 04:59
Well, I didn't want a light NowPlaying screen and you've read my technical comment about the main menu above, didn't you ;) Can't have that one in dark. Still not. Not even in iOS 6.

I knew that question would come up more often :)

Yes sorry Pippin, I noticed the conversation about colours but didn't connect it..

Cheers!