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View Full Version : Shouldn't we have an UE Radio forum?



mps
2012-09-05, 08:43
And maybe one for the UE equivalent of LMS. Seems like the best way to impact their direction to the needs of the user community

garym
2012-09-05, 08:45
And maybe one for the UE equivalent of LMS. Seems like the best way to impact their direction to the needs of the user community

already exists (with posts) at official site:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-UE/bd-p/lue

castalla
2012-09-05, 09:38
already exists (with posts) at official site:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-UE/bd-p/lue

Unless they fork off a sub-forum for the Radio and Media Player, it'll turn into a real jumble of posts about headphones, etc.

garym
2012-09-05, 11:11
Unless they fork off a sub-forum for the Radio and Media Player, it'll turn into a real jumble of posts about headphones, etc.

agree!

mps
2012-09-05, 11:54
already exists (with posts) at official site:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-UE/bd-p/lue

I was thinking about having one at this site, like we do for all other devices with squeezebox lineage

garym
2012-09-05, 11:55
I was thinking about having one at this site, like we do for all other devices with squeezebox lineage

wouldn't hurt. Have no idea who can add a forum.

p.s. We don't have a forum here for (1) Transporter, (2) SB3 (or SB1 or SB2 for that matter)

pallfreeman
2012-09-05, 11:56
I'm glad someone's brought this up.

IMO, we should refuse to have anything to do with the UE stuff on the Squeezebox forum. Let's see how well Logitech cope with supporting their users without additional resources from the community. Maybe just for a while, in the hope that we might get some firmer commitment from them to LMS -- see who blinks first.

Because if it carries on like this somebody's going to fork. The world doesn't need another bunch of almost-identical distro fanbois willy-waving.

mps
2012-09-05, 12:08
I'm glad someone's brought this up.

IMO, we should refuse to have anything to do with the UE stuff on the Squeezebox forum. Let's see how well Logitech cope with supporting their users without additional resources from the community. Maybe just for a while, in the hope that we might get some firmer commitment from them to LMS -- see who blinks first.

Because if it carries on like this somebody's going to fork. The world doesn't need another bunch of almost-identical distro fanbois willy-waving.

I don't think going to war with Logitech is going to help anything. We've always had official forums at Logitech and more community-oriented ones here. I think it's premature to stop that model without even giving Logitech's new approach to the technology a chance.

Mnyb
2012-09-05, 12:35
I don't think going to war with Logitech is going to help anything. We've always had official forums at Logitech and more community-oriented ones here. I think it's premature to stop that model without even giving Logitech's new approach to the technology a chance.

The main problem is that an an UE is useless for most members here ? so how can we help out when we don't have or can use such player ? (due to its severely limited functionality) ?

There may be so that some of the third party devs can make some useful addons for the UE , I think some off them are trying UE software on radio to see what it is, so there can be some input from them .
So sure we can have an UE-radio forum besides the normal radio forum (if someone decides that is a good idea ) ? but they are going to have to build a knowledge base from scratch as most people here don't have such knowledge, it will take a while .
But UE users may initially get better help/comunity on the oficial forum .
Personally i find the official forums layout and functionality horrible so it is no fun being there .

Btw classic/SB3/SB2 is the same player SB2 just have an older design of the box similar to SB1 . The audiophile forum is/was more or less the Transporter forum ,but the last year the S/N ratio in that forum have been close to 0 dB (due to crackpot new-age stuff in 99% of the posts ) :)

I think the idea of sub-forums was introduced a while to promote a new model ,with each new addition we got a new sub-forum .

In the old days it was more or less one player model at the time in the model program slimp3 was superseded by SB1 then SB2 and finally SB3 somewhere along the line Transporter showed up then there was 2 models on sale simultaneously .
It was actually after the logitech takeover that we saw a lot of models active at the same time ,and hence the need for more sub-forums ?
That's what I think is the historical explanation why there is no sub-forums for the old players .

erland
2012-09-05, 14:39
So sure we can have an UE-radio forum besides the normal radio forum (if someone decides that is a good idea ) ? but they are going to have to build a knowledge base from scratch as most people here don't have such knowledge, it will take a while .
But UE users may initially get better help/comunity on the oficial forum .
Personally i find the official forums layout and functionality horrible so it is no fun being there .

UE Smart Radio and Squeezebox uses very similar server software and I also think the firmware is pretty similar, so I'm pretty sure a lot of issues could be solved by this community even though we don't want to buy a UE Smart Radio ourselves. If someone from Logitech wants to create a "UE Smart Radio" forum section that's great, because it would also be a sign that Logitech want this forum to stay.

garym
2012-09-05, 15:22
it would also be a sign that Logitech want this forum to stay.

very good point.

pallfreeman
2012-09-05, 15:22
I don't think going to war with Logitech is going to help anything.

Who said anything about going to war? This is more like industrial action: they're not co-operating with us, so why should we co-operate with them?


We've always had official forums at Logitech and more community-oriented ones here.

Always? Care to clarify that? I still own two working SliMP3s.



I think it's premature to stop that model without even giving Logitech's new approach to the technology a chance.

Being absolutist is no way to get ahead in politics.

But this discussion is probably pointless, because Logitech will do whatever they decide is right no matter what you or I think.

pallfreeman
2012-09-05, 15:28
But UE users may initially get better help/comunity on the oficial forum .


They've been trying to persuade us to use the Official Forum since day 1.

Seems like a good time to help them do this by redirecting all the UE issues there.


Personally i find the official forums layout and functionality horrible so it is no fun being there .


Bit like the UE radio.

Nah, that's unfair, but I couldn't resist.

pallfreeman
2012-09-05, 15:37
very good point.

No it isn't.

It's bending over for our wannabe corporate masters.

That's not what Open Source is supposed to be about.

castalla
2012-09-05, 15:42
I think it's time to follow the advice of The Scousers (for non-UK readers, that's people from Liverpool) and 'Calm Down':

http://youtu.be/ns8MHC4WLRI

pallfreeman
2012-09-05, 15:50
I think it's time to follow the advice of The Scousers (for non-UK readers, that's people from Liverpool) and 'Calm Down':


The Mrs. is Scouse.

I'm calmly trying to protect my investment. I don't suppose an alternative POV will make much difference, but they came for the Jews first.

garym
2012-09-05, 16:03
Look, I have more of this stuff than the average user. But it's not an investment. I have investments and thats a different animal. It's a nice, inexpensive networked music system that has quality and flexibility. I love it. But Logitech is a company, not our best friend. And they are not the third reich either!

And they pay for and host this forum. So it strikes me that keeping the forum alive is a good idea.

garym
2012-09-05, 16:08
And squeezebox is not entirely open source. If you are seeking pure open source (and nothing wrong with that), this is the wrong place.

routehero
2012-09-05, 16:27
It's highly unlikely that anyone is regularly reviewing these forums from Logitech besides mherger and perhaps some of the old Squeezenetworks engineers.

With that said, any complaints that you're voicing here are unlikely to reach the right audience. The "official" Logitech forum is also a peer-to-peer environment, where, again, you are unlikely to find the right ears for your message.

The best bet is to communicate via http://www.logitech.com/ithink. This will feed in to people who are in a position to make choices.

On the other topic, we can add a new section for the new device if there is a desire for it. It's zero sum for me -- but I don't see much demand for it at the moment, particularly since the new units aren't on shop shelves yet.

pallfreeman
2012-09-05, 16:31
Look

As least you didn't call me "pal". :-)


I have more of this stuff than the average user. But it's not an investment. I have investments and thats a different animal. It's a nice, inexpensive networked music system that has quality and flexibility. I love it.


I don't disagree with any of that. What I'm talking about is my investment in the software which is now LMS, and the stuff I've built around it over the last decade. I want it to continue improving, rather than degenerating into a radio tuner.


But Logitech is a company, not our best friend. And they are not the third reich either!

I'm just a "regular" Open Source geek; I don't quite know how to relate to them, or communicate with them.



And they pay for and host this forum. So it strikes me that keeping the forum alive is a good idea.

So it's all about the money? Sad.

I'll STFU and go to bed now.

garym
2012-09-05, 17:12
So it's all about the money? Sad.

Maybe sad, maybe not. I can afford all my toys because some organization (that wants to make money) is willing to pay me for my efforts. Logitech is a public company that is somewhat (completely?) beholden to their Board and shareholders. And I have a hard time coming up with an example of a company that doesn't focus on *at least* long term profit. Otherwise they will cease to exist. Don't get me wrong, I think Logitech has likely squandered a good customer base and a great product. But again, they are a business, not an open source collective.

I hope to have many more years use of my SB ecosystem, including mysb.com. But when I begin to get depressed about change, I remind myself that absent change, I'd be communicating here using my Apple ][ computer and 300 baud dialup modem, discussing which cartridge is best for my turntable. That puts things in perspective for me.

p.s. I still have my Apple ][ and it still works. ;-)

aubuti
2012-09-05, 19:36
And I have a hard time coming up with an example of a company that doesn't focus on at least long term profit.
Then you're thinking too hard, and overlooking the huge share of companies (especially public companies) that focus on short-term profits.

erland
2012-09-05, 20:34
And they pay for and host this forum. So it strikes me that keeping the forum alive is a good idea.

Exactly, and it's probably more likely that they will keep it on longer terms if there is a UE Smart Radio section on it.

erland
2012-09-05, 20:47
It's highly unlikely that anyone is regularly reviewing these forums from Logitech besides mherger and perhaps some of the old Squeezenetworks engineers.

With that said, any complaints that you're voicing here are unlikely to reach the right audience. The "official" Logitech forum is also a peer-to-peer environment, where, again, you are unlikely to find the right ears for your message.

Completely correct, if someone want to say something they want to be heard by Logitech management, I still think the best chance to do it is to use the official support forum at http://forums.logitech.com



The best bet is to communicate via http://www.logitech.com/ithink. This will feed in to people who are in a position to make choices.

It's a bit ironic that I neither can find UE Smart Radio nor Squeezeboxes on this link, except for that, it's probably a good place to post your feedback.

However, please don't critique the UE Smart Radio before you have actually tried it yourself. Currently a success of UE Smart Radio is the biggest chance that Logitech will continue to maintain the Squeezebox server/firmware as it's pretty similar to UE Smart Radio, so it's important to always also say exactly why you don't like it and also don't just say that you don't like it because you are a bit irritated because they stopped selling Squeezeboxes at the same time.



On the other topic, we can add a new section for the new device if there is a desire for it. It's zero sum for me -- but I don't see much demand for it at the moment, particularly since the new units aren't on shop shelves yet.

A new section is also a way to get rid of UE Smart Radio topics from the General section making it more interesting for you to view the General section if you don't care about the UE Smart Radio.

mherger
2012-09-05, 21:30
> They've been trying to persuade us to use the Official Forum since day
> 1.

Ahmm... didn't you just claim to still own two SliMP3s in response to a similar claim? :-P

--

Michael

castalla
2012-09-06, 03:22
The Mrs. is Scouse.

I'm calmly trying to protect my investment. I don't suppose an alternative POV will make much difference, but they came for the Jews first.

They came for the Communists first, then the others later ....

garym
2012-09-06, 03:52
Then you're thinking too hard, and overlooking the huge share of companies (especially public companies) that focus on short-term profits.

No, I fully understand that today for many, many companies (unfortunately) it is only the next quarter's results that matter. I was being as generous as possible in saying that all companies worry about *at least* long term profit (and I'd say the best companies worry about long-term vs only short-term profit). But yes, I agree with your point.

alfista
2012-09-06, 10:39
Currently a success of UE Smart Radio is the biggest chance that Logitech will continue to maintain the Squeezebox server/firmware as it's pretty similar to UE Smart Radio
Prexactly! I don't think I will buy into the new products, they're not really the thing for me, but I think there is some method to the madness in the new concept and I believe it could be what it takes for some of the SB DNA to survive in the long run in a world that is vastly different than the one SB was born into.
The UE stuff will have to pay for any support we hope to get for our SBs. That's not to say we should act like Logitech fanboys or do the marketing for Logitech in hope of drumming up large sales, but stubbornly trying to obstruct their efforts would be counteractive (and also futile).

pallfreeman
2012-09-06, 12:04
but stubbornly trying to obstruct their efforts would be counteractive (and also futile).

As I (almost) said before, Logitech have encouraged people to use their "official" forum for the Squeezeboxes for a long time. They may prefer it if we refer all UE stuff there. They may even think we're being bloody-minded and stubborn because we want to carry on with this forum.

Discuss. :-)

pallfreeman
2012-09-06, 12:06
They came for the Communists first, then the others later ....

Damn, did Google get it wrong again?

alfista
2012-09-07, 09:42
As I (almost) said before, Logitech have encouraged people to use their "official" forum for the Squeezeboxes for a long time. They may prefer it if we refer all UE stuff there.
Could be. Either way, Logitech can have it the way they want, an UE related section here will only happen if a Logitech employee creates it.

What you didn't just almost say was:

IMO, we should refuse to have anything to do with the UE stuff on the Squeezebox forum. Let's see how well Logitech cope with supporting their users without additional resources from the community.
And that seems a bit petty to me, what would the SB community gain from that? Wouldn't it better justify the continued existense of this forum if it provided some help for UE users too? UE is here, SB is soon gone from the market and I don't think we are likely to change that by turning our back on the users who hop on the UE train now, simply because they were too late to catch the SB train (or couldn't figure out where to buy the SB ticket as it were if you think bout the marketing).


They may even think we're being bloody-minded and stubborn because we want to carry on with this forum.
Certainly a thought, again since this forum is still around it would stand to reason that they're not all that bothered with it.

pallfreeman
2012-09-07, 16:29
What you didn't just almost say was:

No, what I said was that Logitech have been encouraging use of their official forum since day 1, which is incorrect.


I don't think we are likely to change that by turning our back on the users who hop on the UE train now, simply because they were too late to catch the SB train (or couldn't figure out where to buy the SB ticket as it were if you think bout the marketing).

Very fair point, but is it not a case of Logitech turning their backs on the SB community?

alfista
2012-09-09, 19:54
No, what I said was that Logitech have been encouraging use of their official forum since day 1, which is incorrect.
The quoute was verbatim from one of your posts in this thread.


Very fair point, but is it not a case of Logitech turning their backs on the SB community?
Remains to be seen. Yes they've discontinued production of the SB stuff, but let's be honest, that happens to all consumer electronic products at one point or other and is a perfectly normal event in any market. What makes a difference is the way they will support the product after this point. Will there be support for installing LMS on upcoming OS versions (at least the next increment)? Will Logitech keep support for online music services running on MySB (fix stuff when the services change their API).