Squeezebox without Logitech

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  • truehl
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 1178

    Squeezebox without Logitech

    Hi folks,
    I think it's time to join the debate. I've named the thread "Squeezebox ..." and not LMS because I like to ignore Logitech's last renaming act.

    First I was a kind of shocked from hearing the news, but now I ask you: Do we really need Logitech?

    As far as I know Squeezebox Server was and still is open source?! Only the firmware is not open source. So we still have a great server product and it should be possible to maintain and further develope this great product by a community. So we need players and remote controls. Remote controls are not a problem at all. iPeng is the best remote control for a music server I've ever seen! There are other remote controls for nearly any platform. Are there still people without smartphones or tablets? So we need players. We have software players like SqueezeSlave and SqueezePlay. So we need Hardware for Server and Player. What about Raspberry Pi? Raspberry Pi is a very cheep hardware platform which can be use as a Squeezebox Server and a player and if you like you can run server and player on only one device! This device costs only 35 $.

    All these products have nothing to do with Logitech. So we are ready to go, aren't we?

    To be serious, there is still something to do to run this setup as a 100% replacement of the existing players, but we are very close to this. It's all up and running in my SqueezePlug project and meantime I'm working on a completely new version with very good effort. One open thing is to find a replacement for the sluggish internal sound card if you need analogue or spdif sound-output. HDMI output already work great!

    So take a look at www.squeezeplug.de, and if you like join my project and help to keep Squeezebox alive!!!
    Last edited by truehl; 2012-09-03, 19:36.
    SqueezePlug & MAX2Play,
    2 x Squeezebox Duet,
    1 x Squeezebox Touch,
    1 x Onkyo TX-8050 DLNA ready receiver
    iPeng,

    My Blog: Blog
    My Downloads: Downloads

    Feel free to donate my SqueezePlug project: Donate, thanks a lot!
  • pallfreeman
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 500

    #2
    Originally posted by truehl
    First I was a kind of shocked from hearing the news, but now I ask you: Do we really need Logitech?
    No. But we need lead developers for SBS, and they happen to be working for Logitech at the moment.
    Don't push your love too far
    Your wounds won't leave a scar
    Right now is where you are
    In a broken dream.

    Comment

    • BTHOEM
      Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 76

      #3
      The decent thing of Logitech to do, would be to secure the continued satisfaction of their Squeezebox customer base by submitting the Squeezebox technology to Open Source - client as well as server (incl. plugins and remote control SW) and contributing to establishing a development community.

      That is the least I would expect of a company the size of Logitech.

      I am a bit surprised that there is no mention of such in the announcement.

      Bjørn Tore Hoem

      Comment

      • Labarum
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 820

        #4
        My view precisely.

        The value is in the software, and there is plenty of cheap hardware on which to run it.

        My problem. I don't have the IT skills, so I look forward to being led by the hand by the excellent techies in this place.

        Do I need to download a particular set of files now, before they disappear, or will the useful files always be available in some open repository?
        Brian

        In UK: rPi4 running LMS, Chromecast Audio Dongle and Chromecast Video Dongle attached to TV - Beresford DAC - Quad 77 Integrated Amp - AVI Neutron 4 Speakers - Sennheiser HD25 Headphones. Boom in Bedroom.

        In Nicosia: LMS running on a small form factor Windows PC, Beresford DAC into Quad 405-2 and MB Quart 980s

        Comment

        • simbo
          Senior Member
          • May 2007
          • 463

          #5
          Originally posted by BTHOEM
          The decent thing of Logitech to do, would be to secure the continued satisfaction of their Squeezebox customer base by submitting the Squeezebox technology to Open Source [...]
          That is the least I would expect of a company the size of Logitech.
          Why would they do that? They're a company not a charity. What's in it for them? I doubt they want competition for their newly-branded UE outfit from a technology they used to control.
          Anyway, much of the SB technology is already open source anyway, and many of the remaining proprietary parts are licensed to them.
          Family Room: Receiver; Kitchen: Boom; Garden: Classic; Bedroom: Boom; Anywhere: Controller, SqueezeCommander, Android SqueezePlayer
          last.fm

          Comment

          • erland
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2006
            • 11322

            #6
            Originally posted by BTHOEM
            The decent thing of Logitech to do, would be to secure the continued satisfaction of their Squeezebox customer base by submitting the Squeezebox technology to Open Source - client as well as server (incl. plugins and remote control SW) and contributing to establishing a development community.
            I believe the things that can be open source already is.
            The parts that aren't open source can't be because the third parties that owns them doesn't allow Logitech to let anybody else redistribute them. The Logitech logotypes and other graphics is not redistributable but it's pretty obvious why Logitech doesn't want anybody else to redistribute software with a Logitech logotype or Logitech graphics.

            The only thing that isn't open sourced that possibly could be is the Android and iOS controllers, but those aren't worth anything anyway as there are third party iOS and Android controller apps already that are a lot better than the Logitech apps.

            mysqueezebox.com can't be open source because it contains API access code from streaming providers which Logitech isn't allowed to show to third parties.
            Erland Lindmark (My homepage)
            Developer of many plugins/applets
            Starting with LMS 8.0 I no longer support my plugins/applets (see here for more information )

            Comment

            • the nightfly
              Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 71

              #7
              I posted the following on the "New Squeezebox Radio" thread, but it's relevant here

              I applaud erland's (and other's) plans to keep SB alive post-Logitech, but here's the most important immediate question: is there a forum or other such site for SB to continue on if (when) Logitech pulls the plug on this one? Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see it happen very soon -- especially since I would guess management would not be happy with the beating their company is receiving in the comments here, nor in information about how to keep and perpetuate the old system instead of us all rushing out and buying Ultimate Ears Smart Radios of our very own.

              I'm not aware of any venue that people could flock to should Logitech shut this one down. If there isn't one, I could look into setting up a mailing list for that purpose (at least as a backup option), but that won't be necessary if a web forum or mailing list already exists. If so, could you post the relevant information so I can start preparing my post-Logitech life raft?

              Comment

              • routehero
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2012
                • 28

                #8
                There aren't any plans to pull the plug on the forums.

                I would be surprised if many in the "management" were reading these forums.

                Rest assured that the people that work on the Squeezebox infrastructure are eager to keep it around and will advocate its long life.

                Comment

                • the nightfly
                  Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 71

                  #9
                  Originally posted by routehero
                  There aren't any plans to pull the plug on the forums.
                  Are these forums not owned and controlled by Logitech?

                  Comment

                  • pallfreeman
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 500

                    #10
                    Originally posted by routehero
                    There aren't any plans to pull the plug on the forums.

                    I would be surprised if many in the "management" were reading these forums.

                    Rest assured that the people that work on the Squeezebox infrastructure are eager to keep it around and will advocate its long life.
                    Please excuse my impertinence, but I've been away for a while.

                    Who are you and how do you know this?
                    Don't push your love too far
                    Your wounds won't leave a scar
                    Right now is where you are
                    In a broken dream.

                    Comment

                    • aubuti
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 8878

                      #11
                      Originally posted by pallfreeman
                      Who are you and how do you know this?
                      Just another bystander idly guessing, but I suppose the "Administrator" designation (as opposed to our lowly "Senior Member" status) has something to do with it. Also, past posts such as this one: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...ht=#post699417
                      Main system: SB3 > Emotiva XDA-1 > NAD C 325BEE > Vandersteen 1
                      Living room: SB2 > Audioengine HD6
                      Kitchen/dining: SB2 > AudioSource AMP 100 > 2-pairs of Polk Audio RC60i in-ceiling speakers
                      Deck/patio: SB Receiver > AudioSource AMP 100 > Polk Atrium 45
                      Study: SB Radio
                      Quiet time: Hifiman Sundara headphones plugged into NAD amp or iPhone + AudioQuest Dragonfly Red DAC/amp
                      LMS 8.3 running on a Raspberry Pi3 (piCore), controlled using iPeng, SB Controllers and Squeezepad

                      Comment

                      • pallfreeman
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 500

                        #12
                        Originally posted by aubuti
                        Just another bystander idly guessing, but I suppose the "Administrator" designation (as opposed to our lowly "Senior Member" status) has something to do with it. Also, past posts such as this one: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...ht=#post699417
                        So, probably someone who pays the mortgage courtesy of Logitech but still has a conscience, and is probably regretting poking his head above the parapet.

                        Sssssh, then.
                        Don't push your love too far
                        Your wounds won't leave a scar
                        Right now is where you are
                        In a broken dream.

                        Comment

                        • erland
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 11322

                          #13
                          Originally posted by the nightfly
                          is there a forum or other such site for SB to continue on if (when) Logitech pulls the plug on this one? Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see it happen very soon -- especially since I would guess management would not be happy with the beating their company is receiving in the comments here, nor in information about how to keep and perpetuate the old system instead of us all rushing out and buying Ultimate Ears Smart Radios of our very own.
                          New and potential future UE Smart Radio customers probably go to their official support forum at http://forums.logitech.com.

                          Due to this my guess is that Logitech management probably don't want the critique to be on their official forum where it might scare away potential new UE Smart Radio customers, I'm fairly sure they prefer the critique to be here on the community forum than on their official forum, facebook, twitter and in other places where it would be more visible.

                          Still, if Logitech would shutdown this community forum, let's just goto their official forum at http://forums.logitech.com and one of us will make sure to post a link there to a new community forum where we can hang out instead of here. I don't want to spend time setting up a new forum at the moment because I don't believe there is any risk Logitech will shutdown this forum in the near future, but eventually this is something that will happen, but it's probably at least a year or two away.
                          Erland Lindmark (My homepage)
                          Developer of many plugins/applets
                          Starting with LMS 8.0 I no longer support my plugins/applets (see here for more information )

                          Comment

                          • GeeJay
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2007
                            • 514

                            #14
                            You can be sure, if Logitech lets its paranoia get the best of them, you will start seeing much more drama on their site.

                            I'm not worried about that at the moment, because I still think there are some products left to be introduced that might satisfy many of our needs. They might not be perfect, but they may be good enough, particularly if they can be tinkered with to give us the same functionality we currently enjoy.

                            For that reason, I think they are gonna let us blow off steam a little longer until they can get the next phase of their campaign rolling. When you look at their new strategy of marketing their products on the web in three separate units (business, peripherals and the UE audio line), they gotta have something more cooking in this space than what they just announced.
                            I’m down to one SB Touch and a Raspberry Pi. Mac Mini as a server (OS X Catalina). iPeng is my controller of choice. LMS 7.9.4. Erland’s plug ins are what keep me in the ecosystem.

                            Comment

                            • Squeezemenicely
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 325

                              #15
                              Originally posted by truehl
                              What about Raspberry Pi? Raspberry Pi is a very cheep hardware platform which can be use as a Squeezebox Server and a player and if you like you can run server and player on only one device! This device costs only 35 $.
                              ...
                              . One open thing is to find a replacement for the sluggish internal sound card if you need analogue or spdif sound-output. HDMI output already work great!
                              Yes a raspberrry Pi would make a pretty good SB alternative, but as you wrote - there is no good analogue or SPDIF out - yet.
                              Also from what I understand streaming services like Spotify would not work on the Pi, not even via the Spotify premium addon.

                              But, maybe ther is a plugplayer out there that has the connections and Squeezeplug could also be transferred to that.

                              At the moment the only fullfunctional alternative I see is an iPod running iPeng on a dock with SPDIF out. Adding the cost of the hardware it would still be cheaper than a Touch.

                              But hopefully soon there will be more alternatives.
                              LMS 7.9.0 - 1470391720 on Pi2 (Max2play)
                              Synology DS-414 NAS
                              Squeezebox Touch, Squeezebox Boom, Squeezebox Radio, HifiBerry PicorePlayer
                              Schiit - BIFROST AKM 4490 Dac
                              Spotify Premium

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