PDA

View Full Version : Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?



Pages : [1] 2

autopilot
2012-08-29, 04:52
Putting the fact that we can still run our hardware in the short term aside for now; To me, it seems like the only real alternative solution is Sonos. Opinions? What would you buy now and why?

bernt
2012-08-29, 05:02
Don't know, there is nothing out there that can replace my SB. :(

If my SB dies I will use an old iPhone/iPod Touch and iPeng.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-29, 05:05
Don't know, there is nothing out there that can replace my SB. :(

If my SB dies I will use an old iPhone/iPod Touch and iPeng.

Well I am currently using a (very recently bought) SBT and two SBRs, with the now-retired SB3 as backup unit, so I think can keep going for a while yet. Sad to see such an excellent and versatile system bite the dust.

Robert

garym
2012-08-29, 05:11
Putting the fact that we can still run our hardware in the short term aside for now; To me, it seems like the only real alternative solution is Sonos. Opinions? What would you buy now and why?

As long as mysb.com stays alive, I can go on for years, and probably will. But, like you, I like to think ahead about these things and have the same question. I wish that it was as simple as moving eventually to SONOS. My vortexbox appliances already support SONOS, so that part would be painless. As far as I understand, SONOS can't deal with libraries that are larger than 65,000 files (and maybe less depending on metadata tag content). There is some clunky way combined with windows media player to get more but doesn't sound ideal. I believe SONOS deals with gapless, and I know it does multiroom sync. So that's good. I don't have that much other than 16/44.1 so I could also live with the fact that I can't play 24/96 or higher on the SONOS. But the library max is a real deal breaker for me.

So I too would like to learn a bit more about the various options out there (cheap and expensive).

mlsstl
2012-08-29, 05:19
Sad to see such an excellent and versatile system bite the dust.

Robert

Reminds me of that apocryphal Mark Twain quote: "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". It is usually best to let the person actually die before they get buried. ;-)

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-29, 05:28
Reminds me of that apocryphal Mark Twain quote: "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". It is usually best to let the person actually die before they get buried. ;-)

You are correct of course! But it does look like a long slow decline into oblivion for Squeezebox, doesn't it? Maybe Logitech will develop UE to fill the gap left by their failure to properly develop the SB line.

Robert

andynormancx
2012-08-29, 05:29
My next system will be Squeezebox based. Today I've invested in 2 x Booms, 1 x Radio and 1 x Touch.

I expect those and my existing players to keep me going for quite some years yet.

There is nothing else on the market that comes even close to providing the features and flexibility I want and probably never will be again.

garym
2012-08-29, 05:33
As long as mysb.com stays alive, I can go on for years, and probably will. But, like you, I like to think ahead about these things and have the same question. I wish that it was as simple as moving eventually to SONOS. My vortexbox appliances already support SONOS, so that part would be painless. As far as I understand, SONOS can't deal with libraries that are larger than 65,000 files (and maybe less depending on metadata tag content). There is some clunky way combined with windows media player to get more but doesn't sound ideal. I believe SONOS deals with gapless, and I know it does multiroom sync. So that's good. I don't have that much other than 16/44.1 so I could also live with the fact that I can't play 24/96 or higher on the SONOS. But the library max is a real deal breaker for me.

So I too would like to learn a bit more about the various options out there (cheap and expensive).

If I had to make the move tomorrow (i.e., no mysb.com), I'd initially keep my local music on LMS/Squeezeboxes and set up a small SONOS system for services. It would require me to push a button on my preamp (to change sources). And I'd have to use two different controllers (although at least both controls would be on my iphone and ipad). This would work, but be a hassle, mostly for my wife, who has become very comfortable with doing everything from the SB CONTROLLER.

edit: And I'm glad I've already picked up two extra TOUCH players and one extra Radio (when all on sale), all for backup/replacements for my existing hardware. I might even pick up one more of each if I see them on deep discount/closeout (e.g., at Amazon.com).

lrossouw
2012-08-29, 06:11
Given the opensource (it is right?) nature of LMS we can make it live on. Combined with SqueezeSlave and similar projects I propose raspberry pis with usb sound cards as the hardware (or anything that can run squeezeslave or squeezeplay). And the rest is all software with remote apps.

We'd need to host/branch the software and then also get a forum going for this. This will work for offline listening of course. Not sure about online listening..

slate
2012-08-29, 06:34
I propose raspberry pis with usb sound cards as the hardware (or anything that can run squeezeslave or squeezeplay)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfH8W0k3qkQ

gharris999
2012-08-29, 06:38
I just wish someone at SlimDevices had had the foresight to insist that the firmware for the SB line would automatically revert to open source if Logitech ever abandoned development of the products. In that regard, Sean and Co. didn't do us any favors when they cut their deal. I know this is just wishful thinking on my part and that it would have been impossible to attract a buyer with such a clause. I imagine it's also wishful thinking to hope that the last person out the door sneaks a copy of the firmware source out with them on a thumb drive and that it ends up on line somewhere.

mherger
2012-08-29, 06:53
> I just wish someone at SlimDevices had had the foresight to insist that
> the firmware for the SB line would automatically revert to open source
> if Logitech ever abandoned development of the products.

I think the problem there is 3rd party code. Eg. there are decoders from
Microsoft in there.

--

Michael

slate
2012-08-29, 06:54
I currently have 1 Touch connected to the main stereo and 1 Receiver which is used with headphones in my homeoffice.
And I have an additional Receiver on a shelf somewhere.
So I should be covered for a couple of years; SONOS is not an alternative for me.

Maybe I should pick up an extra Touch when I come by an offer.

I am going to make a mini-server for my sister this fall; maybe I should give her kids a Radio each this christmas.

http://www.onlineregister.com/logitechithink/

andynormancx
2012-08-29, 07:12
> I just wish someone at SlimDevices had had the foresight to insist that
> the firmware for the SB line would automatically revert to open source
> if Logitech ever abandoned development of the products.

I think the problem there is 3rd party code. Eg. there are decoders from
Microsoft in there.

I thought the major problem was lack of access to the dev tools needed to build for the pre ARM player platform.

gharris999
2012-08-29, 07:16
> I just wish someone at SlimDevices had had the foresight to insist that
> the firmware for the SB line would automatically revert to open source
> if Logitech ever abandoned development of the products.

I think the problem there is 3rd party code. Eg. there are decoders from
Microsoft in there.

--

MichaelSo..any chance we will see a sanitized version of the firmware? I.e. WAV/FLAC/ALAC? Once an open source community project got rolling, I'm sure we'd see MP3/4 and the like making their way in.

mherger
2012-08-29, 07:18
>> I think the problem there is 3rd party code. Eg. there are decoders from
>
> I thought the major problem was lack of access to the dev tools needed
> to build for the pre ARM player platform.

Yes, I covered this by the "3rd party code" :-).

--

Michael

505
2012-08-29, 07:29
I recently bought a CuBox mini computer, to play videos using XBMC. It has an HDMI out, and SPDIF out. If my Touch would die, XBMC would be a good option. The apps on iPad/Android to control XBMC are quite good, so I would not need to switch on the tv. That might be a reasonable alternative for me.

But foremost, I hope my Touch last a long time.
And of course, that this community can pick up the development of LMS. How dependent is that on the closed firmware, since most is actually open source?

garym
2012-08-29, 07:32
I recently bought a CuBox mini computer, to play videos using XBMC. It has an HDMI out, and SPDIF out. If my Touch would die, XBMC would be a good option. The apps on iPad/Android to control XBMC are quite good, so I would not need to switch on the tv. That might be a reasonable alternative for me.


Am I correct in assuming this system wouldn't handle sync to multiple room players (across wifi or ethernet) and wouldn't allow the user to use services that require authentication (MOG, Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.) other than accessing the web based version of these services on the CuBox computer. For single point playing of local music files, I can think of lots of excellent options (some of which I used *before* I entered the SqueezeBox world).

gharris999
2012-08-29, 07:53
I'm suddenly glad I held onto my CD player...even though it's just been gathering dust and hasn't been plugged in for 7 years now.

505
2012-08-29, 08:00
Am I correct in assuming this system wouldn't handle sync to multiple room players (across wifi or ethernet) and wouldn't allow the user to use services that require authentication (MOG, Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.) other than accessing the web based version of these services on the CuBox computer. For single point playing of local music files, I can think of lots of excellent options (some of which I used *before* I entered the SqueezeBox world).
Sync, no. But my house is small enough (or the speakers large enough) to hear my music everywhere, so I don't need that. It's a nice feature, I'm sure, but not a killer-feature for any music system.

Services are a killer-feature, and I think we can expect more and more devices to support this model. Since I started using Spotify on the Touch, I can confess I haven't downloaded (via torrent) a single song anymore. So I'm starting getting used to the idea of know owning a music collection, but having it available all the time as a service. And of course, for the average user, this is a lot simpler then setting up an LMS server.
For XBMC and such, you would just need a plug-in for that service. There are some available for Spotify, but don't know if/how they work. No need for it now, because Spotify runs brilliantly on the Touch. Seems Apple TV is getting in the same direction, and might even be a good replacement for services, or the Nexus Q android thingy. Or, who knows, maybe Logitech will release something to connect to my receiver directly.

garym
2012-08-29, 08:05
Sync, no. But my house is small enough (or the speakers large enough) to hear my music everywhere, so I don't need that. It's a nice feature, I'm sure, but not a killer-feature for any music system.



thanks for the info. Interesting about your comment regarding sync not being a killer feature. This demonstrates how great the SqueezeBox system has been (and I hope continues to be). It works for the single player user with a small house. And it works for the multiplayer user with larger house (or in my case, small house, but I want music in several rooms or front porch or back deck that are not really easy to cover with audio (unless I blast the living room stereo!)). So for me sync is a killer feature.

Also interesting to see the different perspective on "a music collection". I have over 70,000 tracks, mostly FLAC, and I'm only 1/2 way through ripping my CDs. But I suspect this is a generational difference (I won't go into the thousands of vinyl albums I acquired before the CD was invented. ;-)

pallfreeman
2012-08-29, 09:47
Am I correct in assuming this system wouldn't handle sync to multiple room players

XBMC has squeezebox plugins. The controller/artwork display is OK, but the player is just a squeezeslave. The showstopper for me was that it grabs the audio output and doesn't integrate nicely with the psychedelic visualiser. If that worked I'd probably be using it instead of my Chumby.

I could live without the hardware, but LMS is what I'll miss most, assuming the worst.

garym
2012-08-29, 09:53
I could live without the hardware, but LMS is what I'll miss most, assuming the worst.

well, LMS as it exists today will never go away. And people could keep creating 3rd party plugins for it. I have many versions saved on my disk and backups. They can always be installed on a local computer. It's integration with mysqueezebox.com in order to run services (MOG, Spotify, Pandora, Tune-in, etc.) is what we would lose should mysb.com be eliminated in the future.

toby10
2012-08-29, 10:03
Ask me in five years when I might be getting close to possibly replacing my current SB/LMS system. ;)

autopilot
2012-08-29, 10:11
Would people please read the first line of my original post please :)

Jeff Flowerday
2012-08-29, 10:59
I'm going to start playing with J River Media Center on a dedicated tiny silent PC. JRemote on the iPad to control it.

erland
2012-08-29, 11:03
Putting the fact that we can still run our hardware in the short term aside for now; To me, it seems like the only real alternative solution is Sonos. Opinions? What would you buy now and why?

Short term:
- Continue using Squeezebox, it's still the best system out there from a feature perspective, IMHO there haven't been any major new features added to Squeezebox during the last year and it's still best on the market and I haven't seen any indication that this will change in the near future, so there is no reason to panic yet. I see no reason to start to replacing all Squeezeboxes to a closed system like Sonos on short terms.

Long term:
- Since the Squeezebox hardware (at least Touch and Radio) is pretty open and have the possibility to run custom firmware I don't think we give up on the hardware yet, but I don't want to go into any further details regarding this at the moment. It will obviously not be possible to purchase new hardware from Logitech but it might not be impossible to reuse the existing one. It's also important to remember that you can actually use an Apple iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad as a Squeezebox by using iPeng or SqueezePad apps and any Android device by using SqueezePlayer app, so if anyone wants to add another player to the system on short terms there are alternatives even if Logitech isn't providing the hardware for them. Of course, these alternative players mainly work reliably for local music and streaming services based on LMS plugins(for example Triode's Spotify plugin), as I've understood Logitech at least previously sometimes banned the third party players from mysqueezebox.com based services.


Related to this, would you be willing to pay an annual or one time fee if you would be sure it would make it possible for you to continue using your Squeezebox hardware with current or similar features ?
I'm just asking because I think it's unlikely that Logitech or anybody else will do it for free on longer terms, it's just too much work to keep it working with the latest streaming services and you need to add support for new streaming services when they arrive for the platform to be attractive as one or more new streaming services tends to appear on the market every year. Logitech won't do this even if we pay for it, but there might be third parties that are interested in doing it.

simbo
2012-08-29, 11:31
As long as mysb.com stays alive, I can go on for years, and probably will.
...as long as Rhapsody, last.fm, TuneIn, etc don't change their APIs. Which they will. If there's no incentive to update mysb.com it *will* die.

Sonos remains the only viable competitor, and an overpriced one at that. I certainly have no intention of replacing my investment in SB devices so quickly. I think our best bet is for the programmers amongst us to come up with an open source equivalent to mysb.com, but that can't happen without support from Logitech (or the old-guard employees).

Mark Miksis
2012-08-29, 11:35
...as long as Rhapsody, last.fm, TuneIn, etc don't change their APIs. Which they will. If there's no incentive to update mysb.com it *will* die.

This is the key point. I anticipate that my SBs obsolescence will be driven by incompatibilities with music services going forward.

Triode
2012-08-29, 11:38
So..any chance we will see a sanitized version of the firmware? I.e. WAV/FLAC/ALAC? Once an open source community project got rolling, I'm sure we'd see MP3/4 and the like making their way in.

Problem as I see this is codec licensing.. Whilst 3rd party distributions could include open source aac decoders, there's a license to pay for distributing decoder binaries - this makes it a grey area as the hardware presumably includes a license which Logitech paid. MP3 from memory is potentially licence free for decoder. WMA is a problem though and is unlikely.

That said the firmware builds quite easily for the non licensed codecs and as long as you have a local LMS to do any transcoding will be a viable medium term solution.

pippin
2012-08-29, 12:38
As long as the software is open source (GPL compatible), you can use ffmpeg.
The problem is mp3. It's not free at all, it's patented and the reason why on trade shows like IFA the coming days police will walk around and seize half of the exhibits of Asian CE vendors who have no idea they are violating any licenses.

bwaldron
2012-08-29, 12:57
This is the key point. I anticipate that my SBs obsolescence will be driven by incompatibilities with music services going forward.

I also agree. Local library playback isn't a problem. Services will definitely be -- and why I'll be looking for non-Logitech alternatives for those needs.

bluegaspode
2012-08-29, 13:38
mp3 decoder is free, if one is not making revenue with it.
if you are doing revenue, you are safe as long as you don't have more than 100.000USD / year. Then its 2% of your revenue.

http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/emd.html

pippin
2012-08-29, 13:46
mp3 licensing is disputed. There are several parties claiming to own the rights and selling licenses. It's a big mess.

And your link (and numbers) is wrong, it's for music distribution. Hard- and software is different, actually VERY different. Nothing free, minimum royalty instead:
http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/hardware.html

Squeezemenicely
2012-08-29, 13:51
unhappy about todays news, I had a look around for other systems. Especially since I am setting up a music system or a friend next week, was gonna be Touch - but now obviously not anymore.

I had another look at Raumfeld and Sonos. As much as I try, I cannot fall in love with them.
Sonos - looks very oldfashioned and boring, no HD audio support and 65000 file limit.
Raumfeld, no Spotify and somehow I do not trust it - do not wanna bet on such a tiny horse.

Still I am gonna set up my friends system with Sonos, that way I can get to know it a bit.

Who knows maybe I will have to move on to Sonos sooner or later.


But having a look around, just made me realize - yet again - how good the SB line is.

Shame only we seem to think this way...

carrera
2012-08-29, 14:06
Hi,

my Transporter died recently - I already replaced it with Linn on the High End Side.

In use I have a Boom, a Receiver and a Radio.

In Stock I got a Classic, a brand new sealed Touch, and a new Receiver, so I think I can survive some days...

But anyhow, I'm disapointed, but I expected a situation like this...

regards

carrera

travelfotografer
2012-08-29, 14:36
I became a SB user (Touch and Radio) just over a year ago. The continuous software updates (until about early this year) made me suspect nothing like this is in the near future. Now, even Logitech websites no longer list SB products!

I am very close to buying another Touch and Radio as backup...

tamanaco
2012-08-29, 15:18
All I'm looking for now is to continue to enjoy my local FLAC library and some streams from the Internet via my home stereo system. I doubt that I will buy another Logitech SB if my SB3 breaks as the SBs future doesn't look too bright. At one point I bought a Touch (too small a touch screen for me) and returned it because I still liked the retro look of the SB3. I also have a copy of my music library in high bitrate MP3 in the Google cloud that I use with Google Play Music app on my Smartphone when I'm on the road. My wife also uses this library with the Logitech Revue as she was never able to master the idiosyncrasies of my SB3-LMS-Receiver setup. My understanding is that Google took the Nexus Q back in house to figure out which market they want to target and to improve it somehow. Given that the Q already supports Internet streamed services... I wonder how difficult it would be to get it to run a Squeezeplayer app that could run against LMS and display the player interface on the TV via the Q's HDMI port.

bobm
2012-08-29, 15:49
All I'm looking for now is to continue to enjoy my local FLAC library and some streams from the Internet via my home stereo system..... I wonder how difficult it would be to get it to run a Squeezeplayer app that could run against LMS and display the player interface on the TV via the Q's HDMI port.
I have the same simple requirements, local playback via LMS, Pandora and local radio stations. I do love my Touch though, since I can turn on my system and have the Touch right there to start music playback at CD quality via my Flac files. I don’t want to turn on my TV, find some remote and navigate a menu system. Very sad by this news although I should be fine for a few years.

Bob

tamanaco
2012-08-29, 16:04
I don’t want to turn on my TV, find some remote and navigate a menu system.
Bob

Turning the TV on is "optional" you can always use a Smartphone Apps like Squeeze Commander for Android or iPeng for iOS to navigate the library and control the player. When you have friends over you can turn on the TV and share the Album Art and information about the album, track and artist. A little difficult to do with the small screen of the Touch. I sometimes use my iPad to share this info or use Moose on my laptop, but the TV is passive and a lot more convenient to share the info without having to interact with the player.

jhonsberger@msn.com
2012-08-29, 20:01
I detest legal issues but doesn't Logitech open themselves up to a major class
action lawsuit and individual lawsuits if they discontinue mysqueezebox.com?

After all, some folks,like me, purchased their products on the condition that this
service existed and would provide radio services ,otherwise they would not have
purchased the product.

My entire setup at my office would not work as I have a Touch which is always
connected to mysqueezebox .we have no computers,just tablets at my office so
I can't run LMS .

agillis
2012-08-29, 20:01
Don't know, there is nothing out there that can replace my SB. :(

If my SB dies I will use an old iPhone/iPod Touch and iPeng.


Your VortexBox can play directly to your DAC! You don't need a SqueezeBox.

johnnydarko
2012-08-30, 00:06
Your VortexBox can play directly to your DAC! You don't need a SqueezeBox.

Ah, yes, but does the VortexPlayer handle GAPLESS and HI-RES?

lrossouw
2012-08-30, 00:45
I will be running LMS that supports local music playback and erland's plugins until my touches and SB3s die. If nothing better comes along I'll replace with small form factor silent pcs with digital outs, running squeezeslave or squeezeplay.

Squeezemenicely
2012-08-30, 01:25
There is no reason to toss the SBs out of your home yet.

Local playback will always work via a local server, if newer NAS are not supported, simply run LMS on a MiniPC with something like squeezeplug.

The real problem is, online functionality. Will online services continue to work. Like Spotify etc.

Also if one was planning to get more players to set them up around the house, does one really want to invest into an extinct productline?
The really stupid thing is that the new player will not be compatible, syncable with the old players - which is the biggest problem.


I for now am happy with my squeezeboxen, but yes I wonder what will happen once one of my boxes breaks down or functionality is limited.

For me there is no real alternative to the SBs at the moment. Maybe Sonos will finally update a player and get up to speed, but probably not. Why should they, they are moreless the only ones on the market.

Who knows maybe in a few years when all our boxes have died, we will only have Minipcs running squeezeslave, or ithingies with iPeng - then none of the streaming player companies will get our cash...

Bill50x
2012-08-30, 01:53
Who knows maybe in a few years when all our boxes have died, we will only have Minipcs running squeezeslave, or ithingies with iPeng - then none of the streaming player companies will get our cash...
I believe this may be the reason why Logitech have killed the SB. It is actually too much struggle around the product line, this forum being one big evidence :-)

For those who likes to fuzz with computers/NAS/network/the like, why not a dedicated PC/Mac at your musical system? And a simplier solution (like the new radio) for those who prefer to listen to music?

It IS said that the new radio kan pick the music from your computer, so one kind of "LMS" must be there. Maybe something simplier and that really works?

/ B

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 02:02
I registered at the UE website (www.uesmartradio.com) - the server software (UE Music Library), is available for Mac and Windows (XP and later), but not for Linux.

Robert

simbo
2012-08-30, 02:13
I envy those who feel content to let their Squeezeboxen plod along with local access and limited functionality. Naturally those who are concerned by the potential loss of online services are most likely to be those who use them currently, but I think for many of us our expectations are slightly different...

One of the things that initially appealed to me when I got my first SB was the extensibility. When the first Squeezeboxes hit the shelves there was little notion of online streaming services, social music services and the like. The amazing thing about the Squeezebox line has been it's ability to adapt to the changes in the way we listen to music, and to allow existing SB owners to benefit from these changes.

Even now, Rhapsody and Spotify won't be the last word in online music services and we're likely to see new and novel services appear in the future as the music industry (finally) comes into the 21st Century.

What has changed now, is that we can't (smugly) rest on our laurels knowing that our Squeezeboxes will reap the benefits of these changes, thanks to a savvy purchase oh-so-many years ago and some funding that we can't really claim our initial purchase to have supported.

My expectations of the Squeezebox remain the same, even in the face of this news, but now we can't rely on Logitech to meet those expectations; it falls to us as Squeezebox users. I would genuinely like to be involved, in whatever small way, in keeping the Squeezebox alive.

Mostly because I'm buggered if I'm going to fork out for a replacement.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 02:23
Well, my usage of my squeezeboxes is variable.

- The Squeezebox Radio in the bedroom is almost exclusively used to listen to BBC Radio streams, and only occasionally other streams or my music collection.
- The Squeezebox Radio in the kitchen is used for BBC Radio, but also to stream my music (more so than the bedroom SBR)
- The Squeezebox Touch connected to the HiFi is principally used for playing the music collection, and only occasionally for playing radio stations. (I also have an SB3 recently replaced by the Touch).

So, for me, I will puddle along until such time as the SBRs can no longer receive the radio streams I like. Since I don't use MSB.com, this would likely be a consequence of LMS plugins not being updated to match changes to the radio streams. At that point I might convert the SBRs to the new UE version (I think this is a firmware upgrade). But I will keep the Touch going as a music player via LMS. The new UE Server is not suitable for me, as I need to run it on a Linux NAS at the moment.

Robert

toby10
2012-08-30, 02:24
I detest legal issues but doesn't Logitech open themselves up to a major class
action lawsuit and individual lawsuits if they discontinue mysqueezebox.com?.....

No, as long as they provide the promised services for a certain time period for newly sold hardware. Example: Radio/Touch come with a two year warranty, so if they keep MySB.com functional for the next two years they are likely in the clear as this would be considered a "reasonable" service period for promised services. My hunch is we will see MySB.com for at least three years. At what level of service it will be maintained is another question. :)

pippin
2012-08-30, 02:28
Ah, yes, but does the VortexPlayer handle GAPLESS and HI-RES?

Yes. Actually the VortexboxPlayer handles more hires than anything els, Squeezebox included, it works up to 192kHz.
And it's a Squeezebox-Player, you can use it with LMS.

Labarum
2012-08-30, 02:33
The Apple Airport Express (£79) has all the hardware in it to do the work of a Squeezebox Receiver.

I am guessing that running LMS, Squeezeplay and Airfoil http://www.rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/windows/

would achieve all; but a single Squeezebox-Airplay App would be neater.

But what I have is working, and is likely to for two years or more. I will take life as it comes.

bernt
2012-08-30, 02:35
Yes. Actually the VortexboxPlayer handles more hires than anything els, Squeezebox included, it works up to 192kHz.
And it's a Squeezebox-Player, you can use it with LMS.


Ah, yes, but does the VortexPlayer handle GAPLESS and HI-RES?

http://info.vortexbox.org/tiki-index.php?page=Squeezeslave

Note: VortexBox Player will play FLAC files without gaps, but only when it is controlled by mpd, not SqueezeBox Server. See Using VortexBox Player with MPod or MPaD

nicklouse
2012-08-30, 04:15
Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?

no change it aint dead.

Just like HDDVD aint dead. it all works just fine so why change anything?

lrossouw
2012-08-30, 05:00
...but I don't want to go into any further details regarding this at the moment....


What are you up to erland? :)



Related to this, would you be willing to pay an annual or one time fee if you would be sure it would make it possible for you to continue using your Squeezebox hardware with current or similar features ?

I'd pay something small for LMS + squeezslave+squeezeplay. No streaming services available in South Africa (probably true for many non-US non-EU regions). Maybe for last.fm scrobbling and maybe google music integration (sync and play), which I managed to get working here (but not technically allowed), but would love to integrate with LMS.

garym
2012-08-30, 05:05
Related to this, would you be willing to pay an annual or one time fee if you would be sure it would make it possible for you to continue using your Squeezebox hardware with current or similar features ?
I'm just asking because I think it's unlikely that Logitech or anybody else will do it for free on longer terms, it's just too much work to keep it working with the latest streaming services and you need to add support for new streaming services when they arrive for the platform to be attractive as one or more new streaming services tends to appear on the market every year. Logitech won't do this even if we pay for it, but there might be third parties that are interested in doing it.

I would definitely pay a one-time or annual fee for future squeezebox related services. This would include helping (financially) to maintain a squeezebox community forum on the web.

505
2012-08-30, 05:37
Related to this, would you be willing to pay an annual or one time fee if you would be sure it would make it possible for you to continue using your Squeezebox hardware with current or similar features ?
I'm just asking because I think it's unlikely that Logitech or anybody else will do it for free on longer terms, it's just too much work to keep it working with the latest streaming services and you need to add support for new streaming services when they arrive for the platform to be attractive as one or more new streaming services tends to appear on the market every year. Logitech won't do this even if we pay for it, but there might be third parties that are interested in doing it.

I'd pay something small for LMS + squeezslave+squeezeplay. No streaming services available in South Africa (probably true for many non-US non-EU regions). Maybe for last.fm scrobbling and maybe google music integration (sync and play), which I managed to get working here (but not technically allowed), but would love to integrate with LMS.

What is exactly controlled by mySB.com, and how? As I understood it, it's just a broker (or phone book, or whatever comparison). For radio stations, it just holds the libraries of all URLs. The actual stream comes from the radio station server. The same for Spotify/MOG/etc. It's just an interface between Squeezebox and the service, but does not send any actual data. And scrobbling is handled by LMS directly to last.fm, without mySB.com as an intermediary? And a plugin for the radio service to interface directly with TuneIn could sove the radio part.

In that sense, the bandwidth requirements per user for something like mySB.com should be quite low, not? And thus the costs per user?

castalla
2012-08-30, 05:50
And a plugin for the radio service to interface directly with TuneIn could sove the radio part.


LMS includes a Tunein plugin by default. Does this work independently of sb.com?

The Tunein app uses sb.com and has an additional feature not available in the plugin - Presets (favourites).

An updated plugin could surely allow for account details to enable Presets too ... ?

hvb83
2012-08-30, 06:13
Perhaps I'm missing out on something or am I just being naive. But do we have a clear understanding already of what the new UE-system does and what it doesn't do? From what I've seen on the website, it does support streaming services like Spotify and Pandora, so why wouldn't it support many of the other services that are currently available?

And if it doesn't do that, what would be the disadvantage of the new UE-platform in comparison to other platforms? AFAIK even with reduced online-services, it will still be on-par with the other music streamers out there. That is, if they release a new Touch or something like that...

garym
2012-08-30, 06:18
Perhaps I'm missing out on something or am I just being naive. But do we have a clear understanding already of what the new UE-system does and what it doesn't do? From what I've seen on the website, it does support streaming services like Spotify and Pandora, so why wouldn't it support many of the other services that are currently available?

And if it doesn't do that, what would be the disadvantage of the new UE-platform in comparison to other platforms? AFAIK even with reduced online-services, it will still be on-par with the other music streamers out there. That is, if they release a new Touch or something like that...

You are correct I believe. But the information thus far is that there are not any plans for anything equivalent to the current TOUCH (that is, a player that can connect to your stereo with analog line out, or to your DAC with optical, S/PDIF, or USB). The Smart Radio they are releasing has only a headphone out. (and even with such connections, the current radio plays only 24/48, rather than the 24/96 (or even 24/192 with EDO).

So if you are a user that only uses a Radio for mostly listening to internet radio and online services, along with some of your own music, then the new radio will likely work just fine. And your existing radios can even be converted with firmware to work with the same system. Any existing TOUCH, SB3, Transporter, etc. are reported as not being able to be converted with firmware to the new system.

castalla
2012-08-30, 06:22
The main difference as far as I can see is that the UE system is not compatible with the existing LMS system - you have to add another server to get music access.

Apparently, it will be possible to install the UE firmware on an SB Radio - but I understood this is a one-way street - you won't be able to revert to the SB system.

I'm more concerned about the impact on devices like the Touch.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 06:23
Perhaps I'm missing out on something or am I just being naive. But do we have a clear understanding already of what the new UE-system does and what it doesn't do? From what I've seen on the website, it does support streaming services like Spotify and Pandora, so why wouldn't it support many of the other services that are currently available?

And if it doesn't do that, what would be the disadvantage of the new UE-platform in comparison to other platforms? AFAIK even with reduced online-services, it will still be on-par with the other music streamers out there. That is, if they release a new Touch or something like that...

From my perspective, the new UE system fails my needs because:

1. There's not a HiFi quality player, just a radio with no digital or analogue outputs (other than a headphone socket)
2. The UE Music Library software doesn't run on Linux, so I can't run it on my QNAP as I do LMS

Robert

simbo
2012-08-30, 06:25
There's not a HiFi quality player
Which I find very odd, as Ultimate Ears made/make very good quality earphones (I have a set). Looks like this'll upset UE fans as much as us.

garym
2012-08-30, 06:28
Which I find very odd, as Ultimate Ears made/make very good quality earphones (I have a set). Looks like this'll upset UE fans as much as us.

But Logitech has now purchased Ultimate Ears. The old UE users seem to be no more happy with the new Logitech branded UE items than we seem to be with new UE Smart Radio. Logitech may not ruin UE, as headphones are a little easier to market to users than the notion of a whole-house networked audio system.

chenrikson
2012-08-30, 06:28
I registered at the UE website (www.uesmartradio.com) - the server software (UE Music Library), is available for Mac and Windows (XP and later), but not for Linux.

Robert

Robert -- How did you manage to register? I was fine until I was asked to "generate a PIN" -- My SB Radio doesn't seem to have that function.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 06:30
Which I find very odd, as Ultimate Ears made/make very good quality earphones (I have a set). Looks like this'll upset UE fans as much as us.

And they say this on their main web page (forgive the capitalisation, I just pasted it - so it's their capitalisation):

WE DON'T JUST LOVE MUSIC,
WE LIVE FOR IT.
EVERYTHING WE DO IS IN SERVICE TO THE MUSIC.

OUR RELENTLESS COMMITMENT TO HONOURING MUSIC DRIVES US TO PUSH THE BOUNDARIES OF AUDIO ENGINEERING, WIRELESS CONNECTIVITY, AND INDUSTRIAL DESIGN. ALL TO CREATE PRODUCTS THAT DELIVER MUSIC TO YOUR EARS IN ITS PUREST, MOST UNDILUTED FORM.

POWER TO THE MUSIC

Ironically, just as all the Squeezebox references were being taken down from the website one by one, I was actually browsing the UE headphone range!

Robert

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 06:30
Robert -- How did you manage to register? I was fine until I was asked to "generate a PIN" -- My SB Radio doesn't seem to have that function.

I ignored that and proceeded anyway!

Robert

asplundj
2012-08-30, 06:37
Any chance it will be possible to to install UE firmware on the touch?

hvb83
2012-08-30, 06:37
Of course this is all based on speculation, but I don't see any sense in releasing this new concept to market, if they will not be releasing more devices to run on that service. Even Logitech should realize by now that the Radio alone isn't going to help the concept survive. If you read the posts by this Logitech employee (Michael if I recall correctly?), you can definately see he's on some sort of NDA, so he can't provide any info on upcoming devices. Why would they do that if they're not planning on doing so?

Again, all speculation, but I just can't see the sense in Logitech doing it otherwise...

garym
2012-08-30, 06:42
Of course this is all based on speculation, but I don't see any sense in releasing this new concept to market, if they will not be releasing more devices to run on that service. Even Logitech should realize by now that the Radio alone isn't going to help the concept survive. If you read the posts by this Logitech employee (Michael if I recall correctly?), you can definately see he's on some sort of NDA, so he can't provide any info on upcoming devices. Why would they do that if they're not planning on doing so?

Again, all speculation, but I just can't see the sense in Logitech doing it otherwise...

My understanding from past discussions is that logitech employees are not allowed to discuss any new products, OR WHETHER THERE ARE ANY NEW PRODUCTS. So Michael's non response on this question does not really provide any info about the existence (or not) of any new products to work with the UE Smart Radio. And I think it is true that Logitech sold more SB Radios than any of their other players, including the Touch. I have friends with the Radio and they don't understand why anyone would want to have a "big stereo system" anymore (I disagree, but then I'm a dinosaur). And I suspect a lot of the market these days is like that. Many people just want a smartphone dock w/speakers and maybe something like a SB Radio/Boom.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 06:44
I think garym is absolutely correct - most people are happy with their 128k mp3s played from an iPod or a phone through a dock.

R

alfista
2012-08-30, 06:46
From my perspective, the new UE system fails my needs because:
1. There's not a HiFi quality player, just a radio with no digital or analogue outputs (other than a headphone socket)

Not currently no, but there's nothing to say there won't be. It's been said that there won't be a "Touch as we know it" that is a rebranded Touch the way the new Radio for all intents and purposes is the same box as the old one. To me this more or less hints that more products will be added to the line, what they will be like is of course another matter. But if you decide to introduce a new line with only one player, I think it makes sense to begin with the Radio considering that the hardware was readily available and that it's the most popular model, hence more likely to rapidly get a bit of momentum for the product line.


From my perspective, the new UE system fails my needs because:
2. The UE Music Library software doesn't run on Linux, so I can't run it on my QNAP as I do LMS

It's not in the marketing blurbs no, but as has already been confirmed it does run on Linux.

Unless you have to replace your SB devices today there's no need to worry too much about what shortcomings the new line has, a lot of it is likely to be remedied before a replacement is due.
Also, while we may feel gutted that Logitech killed the SB, giving the new products a bad rap is counterproductive. I suspect that the continued support for SB have more to gain from a success of the UEML-stuff than a failure. After all it's the same people that's behind both products, if the new stuff sell they will be around, if it bombs they may be shut down and canned replies from first line support is all that remains.

simbo
2012-08-30, 06:48
I think garym is absolutely correct - most people are happy with their 128k mp3s played from an iPod or a phone through a dock.
It almost makes you pine for the midi-hifi days of the 80's. At least people understood the need for large(r) speakers to fill rooms with sound.

What next? Go back to 14" TVs in the corner of the room?

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 07:07
Not currently no, but there's nothing to say there won't be. It's been said that there won't be a "Touch as we know it" that is a rebranded Touch the way the new Radio for all intents and purposes is the same box as the old one. To me this more or less hints that more products will be added to the line, what they will be like is of course another matter. But if you decide to introduce a new line with only one player, I think it makes sense to begin with the Radio considering that the hardware was readily available and that it's the most popular model, hence more likely to rapidly get a bit of momentum for the product line.


It's not in the marketing blurbs no, but as has already been confirmed it does run on Linux.

Unless you have to replace your SB devices today there's no need to worry too much about what shortcomings the new line has, a lot of it is likely to be remedied before a replacement is due.
Also, while we may feel gutted that Logitech killed the SB, giving the new products a bad rap is counterproductive. I suspect that the continued support for SB have more to gain from a success of the UEML-stuff than a failure. After all it's the same people that's behind both products, if the new stuff sell they will be around, if it bombs they may be shut down and canned replies from first line support is all that remains.

Yeah, I would expect a device with digital or analogue outputs to be forthcoming at some point. I think the Radio will be really nice - after all, the SBR is! I haven't really seen a decent description of how the server operates, but I haven't seen any reference to a Linux version - it's available to download for Mac and Windows only. The iOS/Android app look really rather nice from the screenshots.

TBH, I'm tempted to reversion one of my SBRs to UER to see how it works - and i would do if there was a way of returning it to SBR afterwards.

Robert

RonM
2012-08-30, 07:17
It almost makes you pine for the midi-hifi days of the 80's. At least people understood the need for large(r) speakers to fill rooms with sound.

What next? Go back to 14" TVs in the corner of the room?

Hmm. Or perhaps 14" computer monitors? Or Smartphone screens?

Those TVs in the corner were pretty big in comparison.

R.

RonM
2012-08-30, 07:23
My understanding from past discussions is that logitech employees are not allowed to discuss any new products, OR WHETHER THERE ARE ANY NEW PRODUCTS. So Michael's non response on this question does not really provide any info about the existence (or not) of any new products to work with the UE Smart Radio. And I think it is true that Logitech sold more SB Radios than any of their other players, including the Touch. I have friends with the Radio and they don't understand why anyone would want to have a "big stereo system" anymore (I disagree, but then I'm a dinosaur). And I suspect a lot of the market these days is like that. Many people just want a smartphone dock w/speakers and maybe something like a SB Radio/Boom.

I don't know, there still seem to be lots of people buying high-end speakers out there. I suspect that the same demographic who bought great speakers to play vinyl on in the 50s and 60s and who converted to digital sources (CDs) in the 80s will be doing so going forward. There has always been a large element of the music-listening public for whom quality of reproduction was less important. That's the demographic that bought all the small component kits and the boomboxes with tape players (and later CD players) built in. Granted the ubiquity of cloud-based music and the iTunes purchase world has changed things, but how much, really?

R.

simbo
2012-08-30, 07:30
I don't know, there still seem to be lots of people buying high-end speakers out there. I suspect that the same demographic who bought great speakers to play vinyl on in the 50s and 60s and who converted to digital sources (CDs) in the 80s will be doing so going forward. There has always been a large element of the music-listening public for whom quality of reproduction was less important. That's the demographic that bought all the small component kits and the boomboxes with tape players (and later CD players) built in. Granted the ubiquity of cloud-based music and the iTunes purchase world has changed things, but how much, really?

I know it's anecdotal, but I'm amazed when I go to (richer) people's houses with big rooms, massive TVs and high-end furniture, then they have a basic iPod dock/speaker kit for their music needs, playing their collection of 128kpbs iTunes tracks. I think the demographic you describe are dwindling in favour of convenience. Just like your TV-to-smartphone comparison.

RonM
2012-08-30, 07:37
I detest legal issues but doesn't Logitech open themselves up to a major class
action lawsuit and individual lawsuits if they discontinue mysqueezebox.com?

After all, some folks,like me, purchased their products on the condition that this
service existed and would provide radio services ,otherwise they would not have
purchased the product.

My entire setup at my office would not work as I have a Touch which is always
connected to mysqueezebox .we have no computers,just tablets at my office so
I can't run LMS .

I've been wondering about that. I'd think they certainly have an obligation to continue to provide services that were at the root of the sales offering. At the very least they'd need to provide alternatives.

I suspect there will be something in the works on this.

R.

RonM
2012-08-30, 07:41
I know it's anecdotal, but I'm amazed when I go to (richer) people's houses with big rooms, massive TVs and high-end furniture, then they have a basic iPod dock/speaker kit for their music needs, playing their collection of 128kpbs iTunes tracks. I think the demographic you describe are dwindling in favour of convenience. Just like your TV-to-smartphone comparison.

I think those rich people with the speaker dock were the same ones with the crappy console record player back in the day. Not the ones with the state of the art reel to reel player, quality turntable and big speakers.

Of course, there is no doubt that things have changed in big ways, but I just don't believe that quality of sound reproduction will disappear as a value.

R.

autopilot
2012-08-30, 07:42
I've been wondering about that. I'd think they certainly have an obligation to continue to provide services that were at the root of the sales offering. At the very least they'd need to provide alternatives.

I suspect there will be something in the works on this.

R.

Your more optimistic than me then. I reckon 2 years then they plug the plug, I can't see them providing an alternative to MySB.com for 1 second.

What would be nice would be a final LMS and set of firmwares that removes many of the dependencies, references and functions of mysb.com. But I think the chances of that are low too.

hvb83
2012-08-30, 07:56
I wouldn't count on it. One of the reasons they are pulling the plug I think, is that the platform has become too open. You don't actually need a SB-client anymore to use the server, and with iPeng being able to emulate a player with sync and 48/96khz, even a novice can set it up. And if Logitech isn't selling units anymore, there is no need for them to develop any new devices for it.

They won't support that by providing us with all necessary measures to keep that system alive. The sooner everybody surrenders to the new system, the better it is for them... :)

garym
2012-08-30, 08:03
I don't know, there still seem to be lots of people buying high-end speakers out there. I suspect that the same demographic who bought great speakers to play vinyl on in the 50s and 60s and who converted to digital sources (CDs) in the 80s will be doing so going forward. There has always been a large element of the music-listening public for whom quality of reproduction was less important. That's the demographic that bought all the small component kits and the boomboxes with tape players (and later CD players) built in. Granted the ubiquity of cloud-based music and the iTunes purchase world has changed things, but how much, really?

R.

I agree. It was a small percentage of the population back then and remains so. I didn't mean to imply that there would not continue to be folks interested in mid- and hi-fi solutions. I certainly think there will be. And baby boomers very interested in music and music playback (like me) will continue providing such a market, and as a group we have a lot of disposable income for such purchases.

bonze
2012-08-30, 08:09
MySB.com 'locks-in' the user to Logitech, or at least tries to.
Therefore won't they be replacing it with a MyUE.com ??

In which case there would be some sort of conversion??

or am I being too simplistic?

toby10
2012-08-30, 08:13
LMS includes a Tunein plugin by default. Does this work independently of sb.com? ..... ?

My guess is no. I'm pretty sure that plugin is basically the menu navigation within the Internet Radio menu's, but still uses MySB in the background.

I can emulate LMS running with no MySB account where My Apps and App Gallery give the expected "this won't work without a MySB account" error. But absent a MySB account the Internet Radio menu's still work and always did. What I cannot emulate is the true absence of MySB.com.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-30, 08:15
My guess is no. I'm pretty sure that plugin is basically the menu navigation within the Internet Radio menu's, but still uses MySB in the background.

I can emulate LMS running with no MySB account where My Apps and App Gallery give the expected "this won't work without a MySB account" error. But absent a MySB account the Internet Radio menu's still work and always did. What I cannot emulate is the true absence of MySB.com.

You could block mysqueezebox.com at the router to see what effect that has.

R

mherger
2012-08-30, 08:17
>> LMS includes a Tunein plugin by default. Does this work independently
>> of sb.com? ..... ?
>
> My guess is no. I'm pretty sure that plugin is basically the menu
> navigation within the Internet Radio menu's, but still uses MySB in the
> background.

That's correct. But many of the _free_ services offer public APIs which
could be implemented in a pure LMS plugin if needed.

--

Michael

toby10
2012-08-30, 08:17
You could block mysqueezebox.com at the router to see what effect that has....

Let us know what you find out. ;)
I have no idea how to do this myself.

mherger
2012-08-30, 08:18
> MySB.com 'locks-in' the user to Logitech, or at least tries to.
> Therefore won't they be replacing it with a MyUE.com ??

There's uesmartradio.com for the new players. Conversion for SB Radio ->
UE SR is planned but not there yet.

--

Michael

wom
2012-08-30, 08:21
Related to this, would you be willing to pay an annual or one time fee if you would be sure it would make it possible for you to continue using your Squeezebox hardware with current or similar features ?


Yes! As you said it's the best hardware you can currently get and i'm not seeing alternatives. So if the server will continue to live, i would pay for it.

I have currently two Radios and one Receiver and 1 Touch and two Radios on order :D

castalla
2012-08-30, 08:21
Not being any kind of devloper, I wonder how difficult it'd be to create an alternative Tunein plugin which doesn't depend on mysb.com?

toby10
2012-08-30, 08:34
Not being any kind of devloper, I wonder how difficult it'd be to create an alternative Tunein plugin which doesn't depend on mysb.com?

I wonder if it isn't possible for one of the brilliant Plugin developers to create a Plugin to "emulate" UE for LMS connections to uesmartradio.com?
Not unlike Triodes Plugin for Spotify? Might need Logitech's blessing for this, assuming it is even plausible at all (and it may well not be).

TimT
2012-08-30, 08:58
Robert -- How did you manage to register? I was fine until I was asked to "generate a PIN" -- My SB Radio doesn't seem to have that function.

Just register and when you are asked at the next screen to Add a Radio, close your browser and then log in.

aubuti
2012-08-30, 10:47
Would people please read the first line of my original post please :)
Which "first line"? The thread topic about the "next system"? Or the body of the post about what one would buy now? Given the expected life of SB hardware, and even some expected continuation of mysb.com, I would certainly have very different answers to those two very different questions.
Hint: my answer to the first one ("next system") is that no one has any idea, because it probably doesn't exist yet.

jhonsberger@msn.com
2012-08-30, 10:55
A Logitech Transporter for running LMS
and a Sonos Connect connected to the digital input of the Transporter for music services and Internet radio .

I'll do this only when mysqueezebox is
discontinued and I look to buy a cheap used Sonos .

garym
2012-08-30, 10:57
A Logitech Transporter for running LMS
and a Sonos Connect connected to the digital input of the Transporter for music services and Internet radio .

I'll do this only when mysqueezebox is
discontinued and I look to buy a cheap used Sonos .

interesting. my initial thought was identical (sonos for services and SB for local music). Hadn't even thought about the fact that I could even use the transporter DAC for both! But like you, this would be only after I couldn't access services with SB.

autopilot
2012-08-30, 11:10
Which "first line"? The thread topic about the "next system"? Or the body of the post about what one would buy now? Given the expected life of SB hardware, and even some expected continuation of mysb.com, I would certainly have very different answers to those two very different questions.
Hint: my answer to the first one ("next system") is that no one has any idea, because it probably doesn't exist yet.

Ok, this thread was intended to get some hypothetical views about what people would buy now, other than a Squeezebox. The first line was "Putting the fact that we can still run our hardware in the short term aside for now" was intended to avoid "but I'm still going to use my SB!" which is well covered in other threads. A valid point, but not what I was aiming for. I should have worded it better. Obviously a significant number of people are going to jump ship rather than battle on to the end. Are there any contenders right now?

saeyedoc
2012-08-30, 11:15
If Sonopsy could work on a Mac to transcode hi-res files on Sonos for the rooms for casual listening, I could live with that and a computer hooked directly to my main system.
Another solution would be a good dock like the Pure i20 with ipeng running on an ipad or iphone.

SBGK
2012-08-30, 11:21
in hindsight this has been on the cards for a while

1. wind down of the dev team
2. lms releases full of bugs
3. Phil Leigh leaving the forum
4. Touches being sold off at discount on amazon

etc

It's rather poor form of Logitech not to announce the plans for SB.com. Apart from that this is what progress looks like.

garym
2012-08-30, 11:23
3. Phil Leigh leaving the forum


No, Phil likely left because he got tired of idiots taking over many threads, spewing nonsense. Too much to wade through to get to useful things.

autopilot
2012-08-30, 11:27
No, Phil likely left because he got tired of idiots taking over many threads, spewing nonsense. Too much to wade through to get to useful things.

Did he officially announce his departure?

garym
2012-08-30, 11:28
Did he officially announce his departure?

no

jhonsberger@msn.com
2012-08-30, 11:30
in hindsight this has been on the cards for a while

1. wind down of the dev team
2. lms releases full of bugs
3. Phil Leigh leaving the forum
4. Touches being sold off at discount on amazon

etc

It's rather poor form of Logitech not to announce the plans for SB.com. Apart from that this is what progress looks like.

The one thing I've noticed about Logitech is that the product life cycle of their products is short so it doesn't surprise me they discontinued the squeezebox line . Most of the Logitech
products I have bought are no longer made . I have a Harmony one remote and that may be the only item I have that they still produce out of about 10 items .

aubuti
2012-08-30, 11:45
No, Phil likely left because he got tired of idiots taking over many threads, spewing nonsense. Too much to wade through to get to useful things.
Did he officially announce his departure?
It would be very unusual for an ordinary forum member, or even an extraordinary member, to "officially" announce leaving the forums. In my experience, the people who announce they are leaving usually reappear in short order (many of them the same nonsense-spewers garym cites).

autopilot
2012-08-30, 11:49
It would be very unusual for an ordinary forum member, or even an extraordinary member, to "officially" announce leaving the forums. In my experience, the people who announce they are leaving usually reappear in short order (many of them the same nonsense-spewers garym cites).

Very true.

aubuti
2012-08-30, 12:03
Ok, this thread was intended to get some hypothetical views about what people would buy now, other than a Squeezebox. The first line was "Putting the fact that we can still run our hardware in the short term aside for now" was intended to avoid "but I'm still going to use my SB!" which is well covered in other threads. A valid point, but not what I was aiming for. I should have worded it better. Obviously a significant number of people are going to jump ship rather than battle on to the end. Are there any contenders right now?
Thanks for clarifying. I don't really understand what "battle" is involved in continuing to use a completely functioning system that is working brilliantly, and should continue to do so for some time with minimal intervention. But I'll play along.

If my SBs suddenly stopped working today (meaning no scope for a local LMS+SB for my collection / Sonos for services hybrid that some people are talking about) then I would most likely go for Sonos. My library is well within their 65k tracks (or whatever it is) limit, and while I have some hi-res stuff I could live with the regular-res versions or making a copy transcoded to regular-res. And for my situation the Sonos has actually gotten less expensive over the years, because compared to when I first made the SB/Sonos choice 7 years ago (a) Sonos now has a player without an amp for $350, (b) I now have ethernet at the location of my main audio system, so I wouldn't have to "waste" a Sonos player wired to the router to do nothing but establish the mesh network, and (c) no need to buy a Sonos controller because I can use an iTouch and an iPad. And I'd probably learn to like it, although my wife would take longer, because she prefers using the SB Controller to any of the iThings.

erland
2012-08-30, 13:36
Not being any kind of devloper, I wonder how difficult it'd be to create an alternative Tunein plugin which doesn't depend on mysb.com?
As long as the developer can get access to the API from TuneIn it won't be a big problem as long as you are running a local LMS, the LMS is needed because the streaming code in the Radio/Touch is currently dependent of having a server involved.

erland
2012-08-30, 13:59
...but I don't want to go into any further details regarding this at the moment....
What are you up to erland? :)

I don't want to go into any further details at this moment. :)

The only advice I can give you is to not get panic and start buying hardware in a closed, limited competing system at this time unless you are 100% sure that's what you also want on longer terms.

Your Squeezebox hardware worked excellently a week ago, it works excellent today and it's likely going to work excellent 6 months in the future, so there isn't any reason to hurry or get panic at the moment, just wait a bit and see how things will evolve before making any strategic decisions.

Labarum
2012-08-30, 14:12
Your Squeezebox hardware worked excellently a week ago, it works excellent today and it's likely going to work excellent 6 months in the future, so there isn't any reason to hurry or get panic at the moment, just wait a bit and see how things will evolve before making any strategic decisions.

Very sound advice.

I am hoping that Logitech will be generous and allow the open source community to pick up the project; and I am guessing that the Squeezebox system can be made t work with other hardware - even today a small format PC with an S/PDIF output can be bought for about the same as a Touch, and maybe an £89 Apple streamer may be fooled ino doing the work of a Squeezebox. How much is a Raspberry Pi?

But while the hardware works, it works.

drgn95
2012-08-30, 14:15
Does anyone have experence with Popcornhour products. I'm looking at the newer A300 model.

lrossouw
2012-08-30, 15:03
I don't want to go into any further details at this moment. :)


If you're doing what I'm thinking than I'm not worried about the future of the SqueezeBoxes... ;)

kidstypike
2012-08-30, 15:14
If you're doing what I'm thinking than I'm not worried about the future of the SqueezeBoxes... ;)

Come over here where we can't be heard ... What do you think he's doing? :)

pallfreeman
2012-08-30, 15:58
Come over here where we can't be heard ... What do you think he's doing? :)

I find this "I know something you don't know" game very annoying.

yeomanspc
2012-08-30, 16:37
Does anyone have experence with Popcornhour products. I'm looking at the newer A300 model.

I have 2, and they are great, but they are video products and no replacement for SB.
I also have the A110 - 4 years old I figure and still having firmware versions coming out to support new video functions. How's that for support?

The new A300 has a very clever 'jukebox' feature where it downloads artwork etc. for all your movies (automatically). These boxes will play just about anything you care to throw at them. The UI is a bit nerdy if you are playing off a NAS, but you would usually pop a drive in them (and use them as a NAS too).

As a video player there is nothing out there to touch them for format capability.

mortslim
2012-08-30, 16:47
If you're doing what I'm thinking


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO8idUH83Y8

and

http://thejunket.org/2012/01/issue-two/are-you-thinking-what-im-thinking-youre-thinking/

SBGK
2012-08-30, 16:51
It would be very unusual for an ordinary forum member, or even an extraordinary member, to "officially" announce leaving the forums. In my experience, the people who announce they are leaving usually reappear in short order (many of them the same nonsense-spewers garym cites).

his last post in no way indicates his intention to leave, so garym was correct, or is there a hidden message in there ?

I no longer have anything to contribute here.
It's been (mostly) fun ... Have a nice life
Ciao,
Phil

banned for life
2012-08-30, 16:52
Should any of mine go tzts-up, I'll scrounge for a replacement.

Should a replacement boom be unappealing, I'll BT my tablet to external speaker (or jack it to a real stereo for remote use.)

Should a replacement receiver be unappealing, I'll get another sb3. (Duh)

yes, FOR LIFE

epoch1970
2012-08-30, 18:11
I will never use a DIY PC as an audio player. Not even a very cheap, very small, very green one.
I tried the HTPC for years, and the experience was pure junk. I used iTunes 1.0 with a long audio cable running to my stereo, and that wasn't so good either.
I went to the SB system because it was a networked device. I ditched the HTPC when I found a capable video device.

If my whole SB system disappeared tomorrow, I'd go for an airplay device, probably an ATV2 as it is cheap enough. I would run iTunes in a VM on a server, to make running it much less of a problem.

In case some of my SB players start dying, I would stick with my current SB system and run iPeng on iThings. Doesn't look as good as an SB3, but the iOS+iPeng combination make for a solid software player.

(this is purely hypothetical. I have more spare than active SB players...)

drgn95
2012-08-30, 19:16
I have 2, and they are great, but they are video products and no replacement for SB.
I also have the A110 - 4 years old I figure and still having firmware versions coming out to support new video functions. How's that for support?

The new A300 has a very clever 'jukebox' feature where it downloads artwork etc. for all your movies (automatically). These boxes will play just about anything you care to throw at them. The UI is a bit nerdy if you are playing off a NAS, but you would usually pop a drive in them (and use them as a NAS too).

As a video player there is nothing out there to touch them for format capability.

Thanks for your input. Audio is all I'm concerned with and was thinking since so many codecs were supported may be a option. With all the hysteria about SBT being no longer in production i was concerned about support etc. Just ordered SBT from Amazon and figure it will do fine till " the next development " someone comes up with. I know of pricer setups but am holding back.

aubuti
2012-08-30, 19:21
his last post in no way indicates his intention to leave, so garym was correct, or is there a hidden message in there ?

I no longer have anything to contribute here.
It's been (mostly) fun ... Have a nice life
Ciao,
Phil
Why am I not surprised you cut out the line immediately preceding?

This sub-forum was hijacked by charlatans and fools a long time back. They know who they are.
I no longer have anything to contribute here.
It's been (mostly) fun ... Have a nice life
Ciao,
Phil

dborod
2012-08-30, 20:40
The Apple Airport Express (£79) has all the hardware in it to do the work of a Squeezebox Receiver.

I am guessing that running LMS, Squeezeplay and Airfoil http://www.rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/windows/

would achieve all; but a single Squeezebox-Airplay App would be neater.

But what I have is working, and is likely to for two years or more. I will take life as it comes.

This is pretty close to what I do, although I use squeezeslave instead of squeezeplay. This way I can also use squeezeplay as another player, streaming music out the audio output on the mac mini which runs LMS (at least I could until I upgraded to 10.8, but that's another issue).

The downside of Airfoil is that it holds onto the airplay audio even when nothing is being streamed, oh, and it can only be used to send one stream. In my perfect world I'd be able to run another squeezeslave process and stream to another airport express.

Labarum
2012-08-30, 22:17
This is pretty close to what I do, although I use squeezeslave instead of squeezeplay . . . In my perfect world . . .

A software with all the ability of Logitech Media Server and able to send media streams to any Apple compatible (Airplay) device would be a boon. Apple would hate it, and the software would no doubt have to be constantly modified to dodge spoiling tactics, but that's one way to go.

Another might be if Google bought or bought into the Squeezebox system. (That silly Nexus sphere was stillborn!) Philosophically the Squeezebox tradition sits well with the Android ecosystem, but I don't know if applications written in Perl sit so easily. Can anyone tell me?

erland
2012-08-30, 22:44
A software with all the ability of Logitech Media Server and able to send media streams to any Apple compatible (Airplay) device would be a boon. Apple would hate it, and the software would no doubt have to be constantly modified to dodge spoiling tactics, but that's one way to go.

I think some (maybe all) of the iPhone/iPad third party Squeezebox player apps available can already do this, I know iPeng can but I think it also work with SqueezePad, but I guess you are talking about being able to do it without a iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch involved ?




Another might be if Google bought or bought into the Squeezebox system. Philosophically the Squeezebox tradition sits well with the Android ecosystem, but I don't know if applications written in Perl sit so easily. Can anyone tell me?

You can already today get an Android based Squeezebox, just install the SqueezePlayer app on your Android device and it will appear as a Squeezebox player in same way as any other Squeezebox. I'm not sure if it will be able to stream from mysqueezebox.com provided services since Logitech tends to ban third party players from it but it should work perfectly for locally stored music or sources provided through LMS plugins.

There is no way Google is going to acquire och base anything on Squeezebox hardware/software, they could take inspiration from the Squeezebox feature set and produce something similar from a feature perspective but I would be very surprised if they tried to reuse any hardware or software from it. However, in reality I'm not too optimistic about Google and the music streaming business, I think they they have a long road to go before they understand the user needs, historically they also have had a tendency to do a lot of half finished experiments and then focused on something else. They also have the disadvantage that they have the Google Music service which they are very likely going to try to force us to use which will mean that anything they produce might work great with Google Music but it won't work for people who mainly use other sources.

Mnyb
2012-08-31, 00:19
For now and a couple of years forward i'll use my squeezeboxes . I already have all players i need so don't need to expand my system rigth now

I'll investigate the options if necessary , may depend on how long mysqueezebox.com keeps working .

Labarum
2012-08-31, 01:18
Have I picked this up right?

Logitech's announcement has slightly different consequences for the Classic, the Duet Receiver and the Boom on the one hand and the Touch and the Radio on the other?

If I have heard correctly could someone please explain simply, but in more detail.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-31, 01:25
Have I picked this up right?

Logitech's announcement has slightly different consequences for the Classic, the Duet Receiver and the Boom on the one hand and the Touch and the Radio on the other?

If I have heard correctly could someone please explain simply, but in more detail.

As far as I understand it:
- Logitech no longer offer Squeezeboxes for sale
- mysqueezebox.com will continue for the foreseeable future
- LMS is still available for download
- Squeezebox Radio now rebranded/reversioned as UE Smart Radio, SBRs may be upgraded/downgraded (depending on perception) to UE Smart Radio. No other SBs will be upgradable in that way.
- there's a new UE version of mysqueezebox.com, only UE devices will work with it.
- There is UE Server software (I think versioned from LMS) for playing local music is available for Mac/PC, requires access to internet to control players
- Only one UE player, the Smart Radio, announced so far.

Apologies for not remembering the UE names for server website and software!

Robert

Labarum
2012-08-31, 01:28
Thank you, you state the general issues. I asked how the proposal affects the older and newer products differently.

I think the older and newer products depend differently on mysqueezebox.com, and I think the older products have more elements of the firmware that would remain outside the public domain; if I have read correctly.

Mnyb
2012-08-31, 01:41
Thank you, you state the general issues. I asked how the proposal affects the older and newer products differently.

The Radio can be "upgraded" to UE status ,so everything else is stuck in the past nedding the old server software and mysqueezebox.com .

You can not connect any old player (except an upgraded radio ) to the new UE system no legacy support, so to your question all players except the radio can be considered older products .

I supect that none of us fossils playing local files would like UE anyway as it must have contact with ther UE online service to play local files ?

This is done to get rid of the switching back and forth between local server and online server that many newbs find confusing ,by simply only have the online server as control point.
Even if your local UE server feeds tunes in the background .

I think this could have done much smarter, now it's like horse medicine to solve the problem ( a lead pill is the usual remedy for everything ).

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-31, 01:42
Thank you, you state the general issues. I asked how the proposal affects the older and newer products differently.

I think the older and newer products depend differently on mysqueezebox.com, and I think the older products have more elements of the firmware that would remain outside the public domain; if I have read correctly.

The issue is what happens when support for msb.com ceases. If your usage requires msb.com, then there will be a greater impact than for me as I use LMS mostly.
In terms of which SBs can be used in the new system, AFAIK only the Radio can be updated to UE compatibility. My own personal experience of SB usage of msb.com is restricted to SBR, SB3 and SBT, can't comment on older models.

Robert

toby10
2012-08-31, 02:43
Imagine LMS with only the Control Panel, no web UI, no plugins, no player or library settings. That is the UE server. ;)

alfista
2012-08-31, 02:51
Thank you, you state the general issues. I asked how the proposal affects the older and newer products differently.

I think the older and newer products depend differently on mysqueezebox.com, and I think the older products have more elements of the firmware that would remain outside the public domain; if I have read correctly.
None of the firmware for the real slim devices have ever been open source I believe and it's not likely to change, for the fatter devices (Touch, Radio and possibly Controller) some source is available, some isn't. For the older products we can pretty much forget a third party FW, for the more recent devices it's technically not trivial (legal issues aside) and I rather doubt there will ever be a third party FW based on Logitech sources.

In short, there are differences in that respece but I doubt they have any practical consequences.

mherger
2012-08-31, 04:46
> Imagine LMS with only the Control Panel, no web UI, no plugins, no
> player or library settings. That is the UE server. ;)

There are library settings, of course. You can choose your music folder.

--

Michael

JohnSwenson
2012-08-31, 10:59
None of the firmware for the real slim devices have ever been open source I believe and it's not likely to change, for the fatter devices (Touch, Radio and possibly Controller) some source is available, some isn't. For the older products we can pretty much forget a third party FW, for the more recent devices it's technically not trivial (legal issues aside) and I rather doubt there will ever be a third party FW based on Logitech sources.

In short, there are differences in that respece but I doubt they have any practical consequences.

Most of the source for the Touch firmware is is available online. There are several people here (including me) who have compiled this and it does run quite well on a Touch. A while back all the source files were changed to a different license which if I remember correctly is much more lenient and done on purpose to allow third parties to modify them. I'd have to look carefully to see if this allows others to distribute a binary.

The parts that are not available are some codecs and the wifi driver. So as long as you stream pcm or wav and use ethernet you can use a Touch with non Logitech compiled firmware. The Wifi issue can be dealt with by using an external "wifi bridge" and the codec issue can be dealt with by having your local server to format conversion for you. I realize there might be some issues with certain internet streams, but again if these get converted in the server it's not an issue.

As an interesting aside on this issue Triodes EDO applet is distributing some significant changes to the firmware by a third party, it works and Logitech has not been trying to shut him down.

John S.

Triode
2012-08-31, 11:30
As an interesting aside on this issue Triodes EDO applet is distributing some significant changes to the firmware by a third party, it works and Logitech has not been trying to shut him down.


My EDO app only updates the kernel partition of the filesystem - which as Linux is GPL and is required to be open source for any things which are statically linked to it. This works as the non open kernel modules (wifi driver) and some binaries for the IR processor are in the main filesystem and are dynamically loaded and still part of the Logitech distribution.

Its definitely possible to build a 3rd party firmware for Touch - however as you say there's some binaries which are part of this which are probably not distributable without agreement.

travelfotografer
2012-08-31, 11:50
Would a next system be some combination of:

1. Raspberry Pi or similar small footprint computer on the cheap
2. Squeezeplay to support hi-res, gapless and synchronized playback options
4. USB DAC support
5. HDMI support for display
3. LMS on local server

Just some thoughts...

callesoroe
2012-09-01, 02:37
I would definitely pay a one-time or annual fee for future squeezebox related services. This would include helping (financially) to maintain a squeezebox community forum on the web.

+1

dennis55
2012-09-01, 04:27
i will continue to use my SB products, which have given such enjoyment over the years........

my next system already sits alongside my digital brethren.............the mighty Linn Sondek LP12

I considered purchasing Linn's digital offerings years ago, but they were in an early stage of development and couldn't match SqueezeServer's abilities.

i may HAVE to re-consider one day..............hmmmmm

dennis

TheLastMan
2012-09-01, 07:00
Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
It is not dead yet, just has been told it has only two years to live and that it won't be able to have any more children!

Two years is a long time in technology, not only will new products come along but Logitech have time to develop and improve the UE lineup and there is always Sonos. I doubt I will buy a streaming solution from one of the "hi-fi" manufacturers, these are generally grossly overpriced, although I might buy a DAC for whatever solution I do eventually choose if it has a digital output.

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"

Rangdo
2012-09-01, 07:56
My next system will be the replacement Touch I just ordered in case my current one dies. ;)

I don't use any online services, don't even do multi-room syncing; just play my local library. The only features I use are new music and random. I reckon I've got years before I need to worry about a replacement. :)

mitcharf@gmail.com
2012-09-01, 12:59
Likewise. I'm more than happy to contribute financially to keep SB maintenance going, if not new development. I'm a software engineer professionally, so I'd also be willing to contribute that way as well, if someone else is organizing things

--
Mitch!!!
http://blog.mitcharf.com/
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying." - Woody Allen

On Aug 30, 2012, at 7:05 AM, garym <garym.5i4000 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:

>
> erland wrote:
>>
>> Related to this, would you be willing to pay an annual or one time fee
>> if you would be sure it would make it possible for you to continue using
>> your Squeezebox hardware with current or similar features ?
>> I'm just asking because I think it's unlikely that Logitech or anybody
>> else will do it for free on longer terms, it's just too much work to
>> keep it working with the latest streaming services and you need to add
>> support for new streaming services when they arrive for the platform to
>> be attractive as one or more new streaming services tends to appear on
>> the market every year. Logitech won't do this even if we pay for it, but
>> there might be third parties that are interested in doing it.
>
> I would definitely pay a one-time or annual fee for future squeezebox
> related services. This would include helping (financially) to maintain a
> squeezebox community forum on the web.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191
>
>

jhonsberger@msn.com
2012-09-01, 14:05
I plan on using my SLIM DEVICES TRANSPORTER for as long as long as it is operational.I have a spare that is rarely
used to replace this one .The Transporters will run LMS for as long as the devices are operational for my local library
which is about 600 GB's and climbing.
I have bought a Sonos Connect,with the coaxial output attached to the Transporter's digital input for inside my house and
the optical output to my Benchmark dacs optical input for my enclosed porch area. Sonos has alot more music services anyway and that's all it will be used for .

I hope I'm set for a long long time but should any of the posters here like Erland decide to come up with a Squeezebox replacement ,I will buy that too.

Maybe Phil Leigh is working on a device? I really miss his very wise advice considering I have zero technical knowledge about these devices. I just know they
sound damn good.

firedog
2012-09-01, 23:14
I had been planning on getting another one anyway so I could add another room synched to my main stereo.

I figure as long as I have copies of LMS and Touch firmware, there is no reason a SB system can't work off a Local LMS server for many years. Yes, if MySB goes down, some features will be lost, but at least the multi-room streaming/synching, the random play feature, and general local music library serving features will remain. So as far as serving your local music library, it doesn't look like much will change for many years, as long as the HW doesn't break down.

terjehaa
2012-09-03, 07:05
I had been planning on getting another one anyway so I could add another room synched to my main stereo.

............Yes, if MySB goes down, some features will be lost, ........

But, if i'm not mistaken, doesn't a Touch require communication with mysqueezebox.com during initial setup?
How do we initiate a new Touch if that site goes down?

nervoteso
2012-09-03, 07:57
Likewise. I'm more than happy to contribute financially to keep SB maintenance going, if not new development. I'm a software engineer professionally, so I'd also be willing to contribute that way as well, if someone else is organizing things

> [/color]

i also would be happy to contribute financially to keep SB maintenance

Mnyb
2012-09-03, 08:46
But, if i'm not mistaken, doesn't a Touch require communication with mysqueezebox.com during initial setup?
How do we initiate a new Touch if that site goes down?

Some one will solve that and I think you can "left swipe" that screen and get out of it as it is now.

But if you buy a spare now, pack it up start it up register it and upgrade and connect to your local LMS ,then box it again :)

I have not done so yet with my spare , thinking of keeping it pristine to help out if some one has an idea on how this should be done in a bombproof way.
Or maybe given time I make some experiments myself and note whats happening .

TheLastMan
2012-09-03, 10:43
On the presumption that Logitech produces a Touch-like player under the UE brand (standalone, unamplified, high sound quality, RCA analogue and digital out, multi-room sync) there is nothing to stop anybody running both the SB and UE systems side-by-side if necessary. Most amplifiers have more than one aux input!

If you wanted to listen to internet radio or streaming services you could use the UE. If you wanted to random play from selected genres in a local music collection you could use your Squeezboxen. That is really no different from having a separate Tuner and CD player. A bit of step backwards, but not terminal.

The situation with the Radio is, of course, rather different. Personally I don't own one but would probably be happy to make do with the UE version if I did.

I reckon anyway that before my Squeezeboxen expire, either UE will have developed into a system almost as capable as LMS, or another company will step into the niche vacated by Logitech. Just my humble opinion of course...

firedog
2012-09-04, 06:05
On the presumption that Logitech produces a Touch-like player under the UE brand (standalone, unamplified, high sound quality, RCA analogue and digital out, multi-room sync) there is nothing to stop anybody running both the SB and UE systems side-by-side if necessary. Most amplifiers have more than one aux input!

If you wanted to listen to internet radio or streaming services you could use the UE. If you wanted to random play from selected genres in a local music collection you could use your Squeezboxen. That is really no different from having a separate Tuner and CD player. A bit of step backwards, but not terminal.


The whole point of the new software is to eliminate the local server. So features like local synch of local music files, and random play go out the window. I think for the future customers of Logitech this makes sense; it just doesn't work for the existing SB customers. If you are basing your architecture on the cloud and the assumption that users are accessing your software with a wireless device like a phone or a tablet, then there isn't much of an incentive to have audiophile SQ and features.

Sportswagoneer
2012-09-04, 07:31
Having invested time and money in several SB units and a proper linux server, I'm not about to switch systems! Got a touch to upgrade the living room duet and a spare one for good measure. I'l initialize both at once.

Oh - and I'll never buy another logitech product. Ever.

qirex
2012-09-04, 15:00
The one thing I don't like about Sonos and most AirPlay-based solutions is the lack of a dedicated controller, when my alarm goes off in the morning and I want to skip a song and turn the volume down a bit the idea of unlocking my phone, switching apps, etc. just becomes incredibly unappealing. I'd probably be happy to purchase a UE-branded player that came with a remote but Logitech isn't going to pre-announce anything and I'd imagine that further products in the line depend on the success of what they're releasing now.

It would also help if Apple wasn't so picky about what they allowed Airplay-compatible systems to do.

aubuti
2012-09-04, 15:15
The one thing I don't like about Sonos and most AirPlay-based solutions is the lack of a dedicated controller
It's definitely dated by now, but for Sonos there is this: http://www.sonos.com/shop/products/control

Many, myself included, would say that the SB Controller was a direct response to the "Oooh, cool" response that the Sonos Controller received 5+ years ago. They've now both been largely surpassed by iThings and Android, though to be honest, I probably use my SBCs for controlling my system more than I use my iPad or iTouch. And my wife uses the SBC exclusively.

johnas
2012-09-04, 21:00
Sonos has discontinued their dedicated controller. The cr200 suffered from widespread touch screen failures (see their forums).

bigbossman
2012-09-05, 00:11
I'm intrigued by the Simple Audio gear, but it's not exactly cheap down here in NZ. And they don't have a 'Boom' type integrated device either.
Raspberry Pi is an interesting yet primitive idea but my Mrs uses the SB'S as well so geeky MacGyver stuff wouldn't appeal. Simple Audio point out the gear is 24 bit but no mention of sample freq - does anyone know?
Anyway I'll continue to flog my Squeezeboxen to death, I'm sure they'll do the job for quite some time yet.
Bloody Logitech!

isr2002
2012-09-05, 00:41
I just bought a SBR, now I have two of them :(

jo-wie
2012-09-05, 03:43
I just bought a SBR, now I have two of them :(

Use them ...

TheLastMan
2012-09-05, 05:15
After much deliberation and reading of this forum - my strategy is to continue to use my SB Receivers and Controllers until either they break or Triode's Spotify and BBC iPlayer plugins stop working. By that time I am hopeful that there will be a decently functional alternative.

I cannot see a reason to rush into anything now.

The more I think about it the more I wonder if MySqueezebox.com will continue for a lot longer than we anticipate. As the UESmartRado.com and MySqueezebox.com web sites are so similar, what is the extra cost of running MSB.com alongside the newer site? They will both be offering the same services after all.

TheLastMan
2012-09-05, 05:19
Sonos has discontinued their dedicated controller. The cr200 suffered from widespread touch screen failures (see their forums).Two families I know with Sonos systems have long since replaced any controllers they had with apps on their iPads. Neither regrets the move. Two others with Play:3 and Play:5 boom boxes never had the controller and have always used the iPad.

Interestingly none of them have ever used the iPhone or Android Sonos controller apps. I might ask them why and report back.

agillis
2012-09-05, 12:06
VortexBox has 5 built in players so there is no need for hardware players. I can keep my system running forever.

nieldm
2012-09-05, 12:08
i will continue to use my SB products, which have given such enjoyment over the years........

my next system already sits alongside my digital brethren.............the mighty Linn Sondek LP12

I considered purchasing Linn's digital offerings years ago, but they were in an early stage of development and couldn't match SqueezeServer's abilities.

i may HAVE to re-consider one day..............hmmmmm

dennis

Dennis,

I notice nobody responded to this probably due to the fact that we are a bit older than the average SB forum citizen.

I just wanted to say you have my total respect! I too still have my 20 year old Sondek, constantly upgraded, sitting there and still providing a better sound than any digital media can get close to.

But this is a different discussion for a different forum, and some would say a different century!

Best regards
Marc

TheLastMan
2012-09-05, 12:21
VortexBox has 5 built in players so there is no need for hardware players. I can keep my system running forever.
How well do Vortexboxes Synchronise with each other?
And will they do gapless playback?
If you only have one soundcard, how do the 5 players work?

Fozzy
2012-09-06, 01:52
The whole point of the new software is to eliminate the local server. So features like local synch of local music files, and random play go out the window. I think for the future customers of Logitech this makes sense; it just doesn't work for the existing SB customers. If you are basing your architecture on the cloud and the assumption that users are accessing your software with a wireless device like a phone or a tablet, then there isn't much of an incentive to have audiophile SQ and features.

Indeed, and the provision of a device with digital audio out may make some of the companies operating on-line streaming services more nervous about agreeing to work with the new system. Even though content owners have relented on some aspects of DRM they would still prefer for there to be no way to obtain a flawless digital copy of their content.

So why would Logitech develop a riskier product that has much more limited appeal than something like the radio?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

wellington
2012-09-07, 12:24
I have my music files inside a TS-210 QNAP NAS. My Squeezebox touch gets FLAC files from the NAS and then digitally feeds a DAC Magic by Cambridge Audio.
I have noticed the appearance of android-based media players who have S/Pdif interface.
One of these players with "Squeese Player" will likely mock up a Squeezebox. I would then connect the DAC Magic externally through S/PDif I/F.
There would be no way to control the box without a phone of the TV but this is not a problem.

Concerning quality, Since the DAC Magic is a properly designed re-clocking DAC I doubt there will be any audible difference with my current setup even if the S/Pdif output of the player had to be less carefully designed than the current one of the Squeezebox touch.

The other option is to use the built-in Twonky UPnP Server in the NAS and buy a Music Player such as the CA NP30. This player has a very good DAC inside so it will probably make sense to use it instead of the external DAC I have. This will mean getting rid of the whole Slimdevices/Logitech legacy and find another usage for the DAC Magic.

Marco

Labarum
2012-09-07, 12:30
I have noticed the appearance of android-based media players [which] have S/Pdif interface.


Can you name them, please?

wellington
2012-09-07, 13:10
Can you name them, please?

Hi
there are some:

http://www.jactek.com.tw/Products_jm400_M.asp
http://www.androidinabox.com/mygica-r5-android-tv-box.html

ciao/Marco

Labarum
2012-09-07, 13:21
Hi
there are some:

http://www.jactek.com.tw/Products_jm400_M.asp
http://www.androidinabox.com/mygica-r5-android-tv-box.html

ciao/Marco

Ta

(That means gracias)

wellington
2012-09-07, 13:34
Ta

(That means gracias)


I know.
By the way I am italian not spanish so that means "grazie".

ciao
Marco

bpa
2012-09-07, 13:45
Android media players look attractive as they often have a video output as well as audio output and so end users may add a display

Many of the latest batch of Android media players run older version of Android such as 2.2 and 2.3 and on some system where users have XMBC loaded have noticed that audio is often not smooth. The user communities supporting these products are often quite small.

There are a few Linux alternatives (which generally have a better user community) such as this plug computer with analoguie and optical audio outputs but no video but from a UK supplier which provides support.
http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=DreamPlug_N

I feel that if a non technical user wants a Android media player or a Linux plug computer - they need to make sure that someone technical is actively supporting the specific hardware model.

edit:

Here is a link to a document which catalogues many small Android and Linux computers but not the ones above which indicates how fragmented the market is. http://omgfire.narod2.ru/SBC_comparison39.pdf

Labarum
2012-09-07, 13:53
I know.
By the way I am italian not spanish so that means "grazie".

ciao
Marco

Yea, I nearly left the 's' off for that reason, but I'm no Latinist!

wellington
2012-09-07, 14:41
Android media players look attractive as they often have a video output as well as audio output and so end users may add a display

Many of the latest batch of Android media players run older version of Android such as 2.2 and 2.3 and on some system where users have XMBC loaded have noticed that audio is often not smooth. The user communities supporting these products are often quite small.

There are a few Linux alternatives (which generally have a better user community) such as this plug computer with analoguie and optical audio outputs but no video but from a UK supplier which provides support.
http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=DreamPlug_N

I feel that if a non technical user wants a Android media player or a Linux plug computer - they need to make sure that someone technical is actively supporting the specific hardware model.

edit:

Here is a link to a document which catalogues many small Android and Linux computers but not the ones above which indicates how fragmented the market is. http://omgfire.narod2.ru/SBC_comparison39.pdf


You mean XBMC for Android? I am not thinking to use that.
If it was only a matter of streaming the same files you listen to from the server, then any media player such as the WDTVLive will do. You just use an UPnP server instead of Logitech's server, connect the WDTVlive to the TV and to a DAC and you are set-up. I have a second HI-Fi setup like this, works great......

The idea is to mock-up the Squeezebox, so the only way is to use software.
I have a Galaxy Tab P1000. It has Android 2.3 and squeeze player inside. Works as a charm and has great sound. (the P1000 has Wolfon's DAC on board)
So I think any decently engineered Android Media Player will do. The Linux device you are suggesting is not at all fit for non-technical users. On the other hand an Android media player is as difficult to set-up as a smartphone. Of course I agree with you on buying one which is supported.

bpa
2012-09-07, 14:58
You mean XBMC for Android? I am not thinking to use that.
XBMC was only an example of a 3rd party application having difficulty with audio on the digital outputs of these media players. I would expect a developer of a SB player app (e.g. ported Squeezeplayer) to encounter similar issues. I was responding to the suggestions of the media players with optical outputs.


The idea is to mock-up the Squeezebox, so the only way is to use software.
I have a Galaxy Tab P1000. It has Android 2.3 and squeeze player inside. Works as a charm and has great sound. (the P1000 has Wolfon's DAC on board)
So I think any decently engineered Android Media Player will do. The Linux device you are suggesting is not at all fit for non-technical users. On the other hand an Android media player is as difficult to set-up as a smartphone. Of course I agree with you on buying one which is supported.

Googling messages on various Android media player message boards and many of them are not "decently engineered". It would be nice to have a "big name " media player but they seems to be scarce.

A number of users seem to want a device permanently connected to their audio system and remotely controlled so I think tablets or even a player (e.g. galaxy player) are not suitable. The Linux product was only an indication of a product with optical out and a price point of about US$100/GBP100.

pallfreeman
2012-09-07, 16:56
The user communities supporting these products are often quite small.

True, but they're amazingly enthusiastic and making incredible progress. XBMC rox.


There are a few Linux alternatives (which generally have a better user community) such as this plug computer with analoguie and optical audio outputs but no video but from a UK supplier which provides support.
http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=DreamPlug_N


My geek personality said "wow, yes, I want one", so I got one. Then the rest of me said "ugh, that thing is ugly". Bah.

GeeJay
2012-09-07, 19:24
True, but they're amazingly enthusiastic and making incredible progress. XBMC rox.


I just spent a bit of time looking over the XBMC forums and wiki. It's no small community...in fact, it appears to be bigger than ours. They just released AudioEngine in May, and it includes major upgrades (FLAC support, ReplayGain, etc.). The wiki says it's the first major upgrade since XBMC's early days.

Very complicated, and maybe too techie for me, but it was nice to see a group of people aspiring for something more than what the large consumer electronics companies are offering.

Squeezemenicely
2012-09-08, 04:38
My geek personality said "wow, yes, I want one", so I got one. Then the rest of me said "ugh, that thing is ugly". Bah.

That was funny. Yes, I see your point.

autopilot
2012-09-08, 04:50
http://www.jactek.com.tw/Products_jm400_M.asp

That reminds me of something, can't quite put my finger on it...

bpa
2012-09-08, 05:02
I just spent a bit of time looking over the XBMC forums and wiki. It's no small community....

When I referred to "small communities" it was to communities of users of the specific hardware players not XBMC. Within XBMC - the number of users on playing with these media players is also quite small (compared to other hardware) and as such support for specific hardware player issues is limited (e.g. digital audio out is choppy). XBMC is only an example - the main issue is that if someone was to use Squeezeplay on a mediaplayer, either a community of technical users is needed or someone tries to make a business out of it.

epoch1970
2012-09-08, 05:52
Was this one already mentioned ? Cubox as an SBS server (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96068-No-one-running-LMS-off-a-Cubox). In server role it offers e-sata which is far better than USB for an external drive. As a potential player platform, this one has SPDIF out and an IR sensor.

(My prayers go to the one who will tackle with the job of making this into Receiver 2.0)

garym
2012-09-08, 06:25
How well do Vortexboxes Synchronise with each other?
And will they do gapless playback?
If you only have one soundcard, how do the 5 players work?

Although I have 3 Vortexbox Appliances, I've never used the VB Player in the software (feeding the soundcard or USB out). I do know from the Vortexbox forums that one can setup 5 different Vortexbox software players from one soundcard (settings are in the webGUI for vortexbox players, but I have no idea of the technical method behind this).

GeeJay
2012-09-08, 09:39
When I referred to "small communities" it was to communities of users of the specific hardware players not XBMC. Within XBMC - the number of users on playing with these media players is also quite small (compared to other hardware) and as such support for specific hardware player issues is limited (e.g. digital audio out is choppy). XBMC is only an example - the main issue is that if someone was to use Squeezeplay on a mediaplayer, either a community of technical users is needed or someone tries to make a business out of it.

I see your point. It's nice to see someone actively working on the software side, though, such that when SBs are no longer viable we may at least have a starting point.

unclemat
2012-09-13, 21:33
As a video player there is nothing out there to touch them for format capability.

Sure there is. HDI Dune. More reliable and better designed than PCH.

gorman
2012-09-14, 03:12
+1 to being ready to pay a fee to somebody that would carry on the torch.

One question: are there limitations in the server software that stops it from streaming multichannel FLAC material? Or it's just a matter of the hardware connected having an appropriate HDMI output?

gorman
2012-09-14, 03:17
Also, if anyone (erland?) is considering creating a new hardware, maybe through Kickstarter or some similar approach, you already have a buyer/supporter.

nervoteso
2012-09-14, 04:28
maybe are we having too many worries about the future? actually, logitech told us we'll keep to enjoy SB and they've never told us mysqueezebox will die one day, at least so far. so why should be so worried? today i feel optimistic!:-)

also, it is enough to keep a copy of LMS installer for local listening; as for online service we could imagine to set up a small htpc (like a nas) with LMS (with wavinput installed) and running there lastfm or other services.

bobm
2012-09-14, 11:57
maybe are we having too many worries about the future? actually, logitech told us we'll keep to enjoy SB and they've never told us mysqueezebox will die one day, at least so far. so why should be so worried? today i feel optimistic!:-)

I think I am optimistic. If Logitech comes out a a UE touch, I assume I will be able to play my local flac files with the new LMS (forget the name) and stream online content? I wish they were backward compadablie with the current LMS but at least the road won't end for me. Am I missing something? Thanks -Bob

GeeJay
2012-09-14, 15:24
I think I am optimistic. If Logitech comes out a a UE touch, I assume I will be able to play my local flac files with the new LMS (forget the name) and stream online content? I wish they were backward compadablie with the current LMS but at least the road won't end for me. Am I missing something? Thanks -Bob

The problem is, they haven't said they are coming out with a replacement for the Touch. The closest thing we've heard is from mherger saying not to expect a Touch "as we know it".

The other problem is that if you're enjoying the enhanced functionality brought to you by 3rd party plugins, it is highly likely you will lose much of that with UE. The only potential bright spot is that they are apparently looking into adding Random Play, which is crucial to many of us.

If I could get back all the important functionality I currently enjoy, I could get over the backwards compatibility issues (meaning I'd eventually have to buy 4 new devices), and could even live with having to access all my local music through the Internet (although I still don't understand how that is more efficient). I just haven't seen enough yet to convince me that will end up being the case.

erland
2012-09-14, 16:08
If I could get back all the important functionality I currently enjoy, I could get over the backwards compatibility issues (meaning I'd eventually have to buy 4 new devices), and could even live with having to access all my local music through the Internet (although I still don't understand how that is more efficient). I just haven't seen enough yet to convince me that will end up being the case.

Which functionality do you feel is crucial that the UE Smart Radio adds to make you upgrade your whole system to the UE Smart Radio platform ?

epoch1970
2012-09-14, 16:31
Which functionality do you feel is crucial that the UE Smart Radio adds to make you upgrade your whole system to the UE Smart Radio platform ?

A 100% discount coupon ? Ah, nevermind.

ply3908
2012-09-14, 20:08
Which functionality do you feel is crucial that the UE Smart Radio adds to make you upgrade your whole system to the UE Smart Radio platform ?

Moving from Sqeezebox to UE "Smart" Radio is not an upgrade.

GeeJay
2012-09-14, 21:16
Which functionality do you feel is crucial that the UE Smart Radio adds to make you upgrade your whole system to the UE Smart Radio platform ?

It would have to retain the ability to run random playlists based on a variety of factors, such as genres, years, ratings, etc. I would have to be able to control it with a full functioning remote or iPhone app such as iPeng. ReplayGain support and cross fade are important as well (I haven't checked yet to see if these exist on the UE platform). Of course, I'm assuming Logitech will come up with something other than the Smart Radio to allow me to play music through my stereo, and have it sound good. I'm also assuming UE players will sync as well with each other as my current SBs do.

Even then, I wouldn't begin the process of upgrading until my existing hardware gave out or they came up with a differentiating product that was superior to what I already have. But at least I would know I have an upgrade path when those units start malfunctioning.

If they can't find a way to give me the functionality I crave, I suppose I'll be scrounging eBay and flea markets in years to come finding replacements for my SBs as they die off.

Meridion
2012-09-15, 02:24
It would have to retain the ability to run random playlists based on a variety of factors, such as genres, years, ratings, etc. I would have to be able to control it with a full functioning remote or iPhone app such as iPeng. ReplayGain support and cross fade are important as well (I haven't checked yet to see if these exist on the UE platform). [...]


I would like to have a rating functionality in the control device (as Trackstat allows in LMS while playing a song). Everything else you mentioned seems to be feasible on DLNA-based setups with a decent UPNP/DLNA server ("dynamic folders" as in Twonky or Asset) and some control software available for Android or IOS platforms.

Right now, I am looking into LINN hardware for highend-rendering (to replace my Transporter and preamp) and into a simple DLNA capable radio to replace my Boom.

What I did not yet find in the LINN ecosystem is the rating functionality while playing a song for any of the control applications (besides the server based music library management applications).

erland
2012-09-15, 03:40
It would have to retain the ability to run random playlists based on a variety of factors, such as genres, years, ratings, etc.

I doubt you will ever get anything more than random for genres from Logitech, but if they decided to open UE Music Library to third party plugins there might be a chance a third party developers can provide this. Currently Logitech doesn't make it easy to install plugins in UE Music Library and also not to install UE Smart Radio device itself, which both would be needed to make it interesting for third parties to embrace the new platform. It's still possible to install things by activating development menus and manually copying and unzipping files, but it's a lot harder compared to how it works in LMS and Squeezebox.



I would have to be able to control it with a full functioning remote or iPhone app such as iPeng.

Logitech provides a native iPhone app for UE Smart Radio in comparison to the slow web based iPhone app available from Logitech for Squeezebox. I've just "upgraded" one of my Radios to be a UE Smart Radio and the speed of the remote is pretty good compared to the old one. However, the UE Smart Radio iPhone app is still in "work in progress" state, except for the speed it still doesn't feel like a native iPhone app from a user interface design perspective, but hopefully this is something Logitech is currently working on so it's ready when they start shipping the UE Smart Radio.

The existing third party apps won't work, but I guess there is a chance some of the current third party developers will embrace the UE Smart Radio and make a UE Smart Radio iPhone/iPad/Android remote control, based on what I've seen from the current Logitech app I'm not too optimistic that it will be anywhere near what you get from iPeng and SqueezePad today. It doesn't even have any alphabetic bar, so if you have 1000 artists and want to reach the ones at the end you have to slide a lot on the screen, and I haven't found any support for playlists, not even viewing the current one played, but I assume this is just something they haven't implemented yet but something that will be there before they start shipping.



ReplayGain support and cross fade are important as well (I haven't checked yet to see if these exist on the UE platform).

Replay gain seems to be supported already, at least it exists in the settings menus, and so does cross fade.



Of course, I'm assuming Logitech will come up with something other than the Smart Radio to allow me to play music through my stereo, and have it sound good. I'm also assuming UE players will sync as well with each other as my current SBs do.

Yes, this is the key, it's a bit worrying that they decided to announce the UE Smart Radio without any indication what their plans are for the living room setup.

PasTim
2012-09-15, 15:50
If mysqueezebox.com died, is there any reason why my home system (Vortexbox, LMS 7.7.2, Touch) would not carry on working as it does now, using the music stored on my own system?

I realise the hardware may die sometime (I have a spare Touch and LMS can run on a PC if needs be) but apart from that do I need to worry if I don't use external music sources?

garym
2012-09-15, 16:45
If mysqueezebox.com died, is there any reason why my home system (Vortexbox, LMS 7.7.2, Touch) would not carry on working as it does now, using the music stored on my own system?

I realise the hardware may die sometime (I have a spare Touch and LMS can run on a PC if needs be) but apart from that do I need to worry if I don't use external music sources?

No. It can work forever until hardware breaks.

PasTim
2012-09-16, 00:49
No. It can work forever until hardware breaks.
Thanks. That's what I thought, but then I began to think, for other's comments, that the system needed to be able to contact mysqueezebox on the Internet for some reason.

I have also taken spare copies of LMS (for both Linux & Windows), the Erland plugins I use, and the Touch firmware.

firedog
2012-09-16, 06:08
If mysqueezebox.com died, is there any reason why my home system (Vortexbox, LMS 7.7.2, Touch) would not carry on working as it does now, using the music stored on my own system?

I realise the hardware may die sometime (I have a spare Touch and LMS can run on a PC if needs be) but apart from that do I need to worry if I don't use external music sources?

No, but theoretically a software update could mess your system up. Have backups of working versions of LMS, and working firmware for your devices.

bobkoure
2012-09-16, 10:53
Which functionality do you feel is crucial that the UE Smart Radio adds to make you upgrade your whole system to the UE Smart Radio platform ?
MusicIP

formula155
2012-09-17, 07:12
Putting the fact that we can still run our hardware in the short term aside for now; To me, it seems like the only real alternative solution is Sonos. Opinions? What would you buy now and why?

My solution is to go the Airport Express/iPeng route in conjunction with LMS. I want to stay with an LMS setup because I like the BCC iPlayer plugin, and there is no iPlayer iOS app that works in the US currently. Using the iPeng playback feature, in conjunction with Airplay and the Airport express I get to keep the iPlayer functionality and also get access to all of the iOS apps that support airplay but that don't have LMS plug in support. I have been running this for a couple of weeks now and so far I like it as it seems to me to be the best of all worlds for the type of listening I do.

Jeff Flowerday
2012-09-17, 08:56
I've been running J River on a dead silent Atom based PC. JRemote on the iPad to control it.

Really happy with the results, only missing feature for me is playlist management from JRemote. A limitation of the J River web service apparently.

bwaldron
2012-09-17, 11:29
I've been running J River on a dead silent Atom based PC. JRemote on the iPad to control it.

Really happy with the results, only missing feature for me is playlist management from JRemote. A limitation of the J River web service apparently.

I love and have used JRiver for many years.

For me, the key missing feature is the lack of support for third-party services (I mainly use TuneIn and SiriusXM).

sc53
2012-09-17, 12:48
I'm looking into the PS Audio Perfect Wave DacII plus the bridge option. I don't know what the software interface is like, but you can use an iPad to control the streaming.

nekomatic
2012-09-18, 01:20
Well for me the question is not 'what will your next system be' but 'what will your first system be'?

I had been planning on setting up a system with a couple of Squeezebox Touches, and getting a secondhand Mac Mini to run LMS on. That's after previously considering a Sonos setup but disliking the price and the lack of UI on the Sonos kit.

Now I'm wondering about either:

- Airport Expresses instead of the Squeezebox Touches, and one or two iPod touches with the Apple Remote app to control playback from iTunes on the Mini

or

- iPod touches running iPeng and sitting more-or-less permanently in docks, playing from LMS on the Mini

Right now there are refurb iPod Touches on the UK Apple Store for £129, so the combo of Airport Express + iPod, or iPod + (say) Pure i20 dock, is about the same price as the Squeezebox Touch. I’m not bothered about online streaming services except iPlayer, and I can do that with the app on the iPod. My music library is going to be in ALAC and I'm not worried about anything other than 16/44.1kHz files.

I can see pluses and minuses to both my options above compared to the Squeezebox Touch plan, but how will they compare for synchronisation, and is the quality of the Airport Express audio out significantly worse than the Squeezebox Touch?

hsmeets
2012-09-18, 04:59
No. It can work forever until hardware breaks.

Even new hardware should be not too much of an issue, maybe a bit more crude then the original but it could easily be made with off the shelf components:

- an ARM SoC board with an ethernet connection like Raspberry, Cubieboard, BeagleBord, etc (or any other small CPU board like Nano/Pico ITX)
- depending on the board, an USB audio device (class 2 audio device) or I2S to SP/DIF converter
- Linux
- Squeezeslave

A *possible* Open Source Squeeze player scenario:

Once released to the public get a cubieboard. This board has ethernet, has an IR receiver and has an SP/DIF on the GPIO header. Connect an USB audio device that is supported in the linux kernel if you need line/analog output. Connect also an LCD/VFD module and write code to do some basic setup/usage as selecting the server to use, volume, next, previous via the IR remote.

From here you can take it anyware maybe add a touch/tft screen for a richer UI (develop a touch and small screen optimized skin for the Mediaserver and just use a http browser fullscreen on the player to control the player (instead of writing a lot of code). As the cubieboard will be fully open: extend the schematics and PCB design to include something like a onboard DAC...etc etc

DrNic
2012-09-19, 10:35
I have also taken spare copies of LMS (for both Linux & Windows), the Erland plugins I use, and the Touch firmware.

Could you please direct me to where you have grabbed your backup copies of the software and firmware please?

Many thanks,

Nic

Labarum
2012-09-19, 10:50
Precise "instructions for dummies" would be useful.

Which files should be downloaded, where may they be found, and how would a personal repository be created and used.

epoch1970
2012-09-19, 11:11
This wiki page is to the point I guess: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Category:Downloads

PasTim
2012-09-19, 12:36
Could you please direct me to where you have grabbed your backup copies of the software and firmware please?

Many thanks,

Nic
For the current system:

Touch firmware from http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/7.7.2/ - fab4_7.7.2_r9663.bin - put it on a USB stick, plug in to Touch and run the update

LMS from http://downloads.slimdevices.com/LogitechMediaServer_v7.7.2/

Erland plugins from http://erland.isaksson.info/download/ - if you can't install from Logitech see http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer_Plugins for installation for your plugins

Some of Erland's plugins currently require a license. I understand that if mysqueezebox.com servers are to becomes defunct he intends to make arrangements for a license manager that is not dependent on Logitech's servers.

For me, one of the biggest benefits of LMS is the ability to have menus based on additional tags. Classical music without something like this can be very hard to handle, particularly if you have several versions of the same piece, and the piece is made up of several (sometimes tens of) tracks. DLNA/UPnP is a joke for this. The SONOS size limitation is too close for comfort. LMS with Erlands plugins comprehensively fixed this for me, although not without considerable effort in tagging my music. I dread having to find another way to catalogue and play my collection in the way I want, and at equivalent sound quality.

audiofi
2012-09-19, 15:19
Looking on the firmware listings, there is one from 2006 for the SB2 (which was pre-Logitech?)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine the SB2 was mostly off the shelf components, add on the firmware and the Open Source software...


now there's a Kickstarter project!

pallfreeman
2012-09-19, 16:07
Looking on the firmware listings, there is one from 2006 for the SB2 (which was pre-Logitech?)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine the SB2 was mostly off the shelf components, add on the firmware and the Open Source software...


now there's a Kickstarter project!

Nah. There are loads of people already developing squeezebox-compatible players. You can get them for most hardware already.

The elephant in the room is LMS. Nobody seems to give much love to the beating heart of the system.

DC227
2012-09-19, 16:59
Does anybody know if Logitech said something about further updating the Touch? I'm currently on the latest firmware. Just curious if somebody knows something.

And, as it should be easily answered I will not make an extra thread for this:

Is there a way to disconnect from wifi? I don't need it disabled completely but my network is always marked as activated. I just want to disconnect.

Thanks guys!

JJZolx
2012-09-19, 22:07
Is there a way to disconnect from wifi? I don't need it disabled completely but my network is always marked as activated. I just want to disconnect.

What does that mean, and why is it a concern?

nekomatic
2012-09-20, 01:06
For me, one of the biggest benefits of LMS is the ability to have menus based on additional tags. Classical music without something like this can be very hard to handle, particularly if you have several versions of the same piece, and the piece is made up of several (sometimes tens of) tracks. (...) LMS with Erlands plugins comprehensively fixed this for me, although not without considerable effort in tagging my music.

Ooh, this is interesting. Can you tell me briefly how you've chosen to tag your classical collection please?

PasTim
2012-09-20, 02:14
Ooh, this is interesting. Can you tell me briefly how you've chosen to tag your classical collection please?

I started with this - http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Setup_browse_menu_for_classical_music

I have the following extra tags, on FLACs (I don't use any other format):

- Work
- Movement (with Title derived from Work - Movement and Filename from Disc - Track - Title)
- WorkArtist (The main artists for the Work - not necessarily the same as the AlbumArtist (which is often "Various" for mixed albums) or Artist (which is for a track/movement)
- SetId - the identifier of the CD, LP or whatever where the track came from

Other people have done it differently, commonly treating an Album as a Work, rather than a disc.

JohnB
2012-09-20, 02:31
My music collection is mainly classical and, some years ago when I first started with Squeezebox, I made up my own tagging system (which turns out to be a variant on "Beginners Guide to Classical" on the Squeezebox Wiki).

I don't currently use Erland's plugin but the following system works for me

When a CD contains a number of major pieces I tag the individual pieces as separate "Albums". Where a CD is a collection of smaller pieces I tag the CD as one "Album" (e.g. Barbara Bonney's CD of Scandinavian songs "Diamonds in the Snow")

Album: Composer - Work - Main Performer, e.g. Shostakovich - Symphony No 15 - Haitink, RCO (2011)
Artist: Performers, e.g. Haitink;Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
Title: Short to help Controller display, either movement or short name for single movement works
e.g. I. Allegretto
Genre: Orchestral, Chamber, Instrumental, Choral, Opera, Piano, String Quartet, etc

I also tag the Composer tag (with the composer) thinking that I might use Erland's plugin at some time in the future.

Browsing albums - displays albums in composer/work order
Searching the "Album" tag for a composer lists pieces in alphabetical order
Same when searching "Album" tag (or "Artist" tag) for a performer

nekomatic
2012-09-20, 02:42
Thanks for the replies! I'm wedded to iTunes and ALAC (because I want to use iTunes Match) so I can't add extra tags like you can with FLAC. I'll have a look at that wiki page and compare it against the various guides to tagging classical music in iTunes I've seen.

A lot of people seem to advise putting the composer in the Artist field and the artist(s) in Composer, but that just feels so... wrong. :P

PasTim
2012-09-20, 03:46
Thanks for the replies! I'm wedded to iTunes and ALAC (because I want to use iTunes Match) so I can't add extra tags like you can with FLAC. I'll have a look at that wiki page and compare it against the various guides to tagging classical music in iTunes I've seen.

A lot of people seem to advise putting the composer in the Artist field and the artist(s) in Composer, but that just feels so... wrong. :P

I should have also said that I put Composer in Composer, Conductor in Conductor, Orchestra and/or Choirs in Band, and Genre contains Classical;genre (eg Classical;Symphony). Multiple entries are separated by ;. The different ways systems use separators is something of a pain (so for instance foobar2000 doesn't much like ;'s - it seems to want // and separate tag fields for each entry).

All a bit pedantic, and I suspect I have made something of a rod for my own back by trying to be very explicit about the data mapping. I suspect JohnB's approach is a lot easier to manage (it's just that my brain can't handle Album = Work when it doesn't!).

I use Mp3tag (windows) and puddletag (linux) for tagging.

With Erlands's Custom Browse and Custom Scan I have several different menus, such as Works by Composer, Works by Work Artist, Composers by Work Artist, and so on. The main drawback is that Custom Scan takes a while to run (the LMS scan on my system takes around 17 minutes - Custom Scan adds 2 hours). However, I can run it overnight so it's not too much of a pain.

The main thing I leant is that whatever scheme you use must make sense to you, and must be applied absolutely consistently. So do a few different types of music first, including various non-classical, instrumental, chamber, orchestral, concerti, choral, opera, collections of songs (or whatever) by different composers and/or artists, etc....., and see how it works.

As to using iTunes, the reason I use no iAnything-at-all is precisely because everything has to be done their way, and I'm too contrary to be able to accept that. That's why I use FLACs, LMS and Linux.

DC227
2012-09-20, 04:28
What does that mean, and why is it a concern?



I've got a pair of headphones that use the DSSS technology. It uses the 2,4GHz frequency to transmit. If I'm in the same room with the Touch I sometimes hear some flaws. I want to avoid that by disabling wifi.

PasTim
2012-09-20, 04:35
I've got a pair of headphones that use the DSSS technology. It uses the 2,4GHz frequency to transmit. If I'm in the same room with the Touch I sometimes hear some flaws. I want to avoid that by disabling wifi.
If you are prepared to accept a number of other modifications see http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html . Version 1 of the toolbox disables wi-fi.

I'm sure there's another way without taking on the other mods if you don't want them. However, I have applied these mods without encountering any problems. Whether the benefits are really significant is a moot point - some say there's a big difference in sound, others say almost none.

DC227
2012-09-20, 04:52
If you are prepared to accept a number of other modifications see http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html . Version 1 of the toolbox disables wi-fi.

I'm sure there's another way without taking on the other mods if you don't want them. However, I have applied these mods without encountering any problems. Whether the benefits are really significant is a moot point - some say there's a big difference in sound, others say almost none.

Thanks! I will these! +rep

Mnyb
2012-09-20, 22:40
Does anybody know if Logitech said something about further updating the Touch? I'm currently on the latest firmware. Just curious if somebody knows something.

And, as it should be easily answered I will not make an extra thread for this:

Is there a way to disconnect from wifi? I don't need it disabled completely but my network is always marked as activated. I just want to disconnect.

Thanks guys!

Sorry for being late if you don't want to install certain tweaks of questionable value .

You can turn off wifi if your familiar with SSH and have turned on remote access in the Touch .
Some familiarity with the vi editor , but just google how to use it and keep commands handy .
Note factory resets can wipe this ,be prepared to redo after such things.

For example edit this file:

vi /etc/init.d/rcS

In that file comment out the wlan start by putting a # before the line.

# Start wlan
# /etc/init.d/wlan start

Another way

edit or rather sabotage the wlan start-up script itself:

vi /etc/init.d/wlan

insert after the first line:
(go down with cursor) use ":i"

exit;

To save in vi :wq!


John Swenson suggested creating an an rc5.local file like this in another tread

To do this, ssh into the touch then do:

cd /etc/init.d
vi rc5.local
(press the 'i' key and then type
iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
/etc/init.d/wlan stop

(press the escape key, type
:wq (thats colon key, w key, q key)

This creates the rc5.local file which will be run every time the touch boots, the iwconfig line turns off the transmitter.



You can always turn of the wlan by simply typing "iwconfig wlan0 txpower off" at the prompt when using SSH but it does not stick after next reboot

DC227
2012-09-22, 07:45
Sorry for being late if you don't want to install certain tweaks of questionable value .

You can turn off wifi if your familiar with SSH and have turned on remote access in the Touch .
Some familiarity with the vi editor , but just google how to use it and keep commands handy .
Note factory resets can wipe this ,be prepared to redo after such things.

For example edit this file:

vi /etc/init.d/rcS

In that file comment out the wlan start by putting a # before the line.

# Start wlan
# /etc/init.d/wlan start

Another way

edit or rather sabotage the wlan start-up script itself:

vi /etc/init.d/wlan

insert after the first line:
(go down with cursor) use ":i"

exit;

To save in vi :wq!


John Swenson suggested creating an an rc5.local file like this in another tread

To do this, ssh into the touch then do:

cd /etc/init.d
vi rc5.local
(press the 'i' key and then type
iwconfig wlan0 txpower off
/etc/init.d/wlan stop

(press the escape key, type
:wq (thats colon key, w key, q key)

This creates the rc5.local file which will be run every time the touch boots, the iwconfig line turns off the transmitter.



You can always turn of the wlan by simply typing "iwconfig wlan0 txpower off" at the prompt when using SSH but it does not stick after next reboot

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this. I'll try it. +rep

JohnB
2012-09-22, 09:10
JohnB's approach is a lot easier to manage (it's just that my brain can't handle Album = Work when it doesn't!).


Sorry for this very late comment but I thought it worth mentioning that when I want to play a ripped CD as a 'CD' I use browse the music folders. When I want to play a specific work I can search for it very simply, as I posted.

Of course, everyone has their own methods. The beauty of this forum is that we can share methods and get ideas which might help us.

PasTim
2012-09-22, 09:22
Sorry for this very late comment but I thought it worth mentioning that when I want to play a ripped CD as a 'CD' I use browse the music folders. When I want to play a specific work I can search for it very simply, as I posted.

Of course, everyone has their own methods. The beauty of this forum is that we can share methods and get ideas which might help us.
Amazing how differently everyone treats things. My classical tracks are filed by composer, work, performer (pop is filed by Album).

However, we have got a bit off message on this topic. I have been trying out some UPnP Control Points for my UPnP Client (a Musical Fidelity M1CLiC) with limited success on my Linux laptop, and my Android mobile. As server I have tried the Vortexbox DLNA server, plus foobar2000 and MediaTomb on another PC desktop running Linux.

The best server for me is foobar2000 with the UPnP plug-in, not least because you can change the index so as to include non-standard tags, such as Work. This is the only server I have yet found that allows one to get away from just having Artist, Album, Genre etc. It runs OK on Linux under Wine - not perfect, but good enough. I can also use it as a Control Point on my laptop. However, none of this is 100% stable.

MediaTomb is a good server, and if I worked at it might be more flexible than I have currently discovered. Leia has been the most stable Linux Control Point, with Skifta best so far on Android.

Anywhichway - LMS is streets ahead on usability.

Mnyb
2012-09-22, 09:39
Sorry for this very late comment but I thought it worth mentioning that when I want to play a ripped CD as a 'CD' I use browse the music folders. When I want to play a specific work I can search for it very simply, as I posted.

Of course, everyone has their own methods. The beauty of this forum is that we can share methods and get ideas which might help us.

Yes the way classic music evolved ( before the recording industry ) it is not only ill fitted to to the media (to dynamic and complete random collections to fill a disc and playing time does not fit anything ) no tagging schema have evolved with influence from classical music.
Thus it does not sit well with any media player .

Myself I do not listen much to classical ( I do sometimes ) but i do understand the problem , similar issue could be recognized in jazz or hip-hop/rap or folk where composers ,artist ,soloist ore not well behaved :) and actually in any music.
But it is very evident in classical as most composers are dead and we almost never record original events but what rock fans would call cover/tribute bands ;) and focus shifts to who interpreted what in what context ?
An effort to break this meta data paradigms would greatly enhance music listening and exploring , especially if the "clues" left in one piece of music could lead to another in a natural way ??

PasTim
2012-09-22, 10:32
An effort to break this meta data paradigms would greatly enhance music listening and exploring , especially if the "clues" left in one piece of music could lead to another in a natural way ??
As some of us in IT have said "The beauty of Standards is that there are so many of them" (and thus keep loads of people in work).

It's a real shame that no serious data analysis was done on music and possible cataloguing and relating schemes when mp3s, aac and their forerunners were first developed. With flacs you can do your own thing, and with the help of flexible servers, such as LMS with plugins (and even foobar2000 as a UPnP server), develop your own scheme. However it's fraught with problems, not least that some of the tools may not be flexible enough to do what you want, so you have to build on top of what exists now just in case. I find it difficult to believe that the basic data analysis is particularly difficult, it's just that it is too late in the evolution of music servers and storage standards to do much about it.

Where it would get really clever would be in analysing the music itself and then suggesting relationships to other music. Has anyone ever attempted anything like this?

garym
2012-09-22, 11:15
Where it would get really clever would be in analysing the music itself and then suggesting relationships to other music. Has anyone ever attempted anything like this?

Yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Genome_Project

Pandora uses this technology to build their playlists....

castalla
2012-09-22, 11:29
What I'd like to have is a simple 'Play All Songs/Music' in a given Genre or Artist category.

garym
2012-09-22, 11:34
What I'd like to have is a simple 'Play All Songs/Music' in a given Genre or Artist category.

you can do this now. in LMS go to artist or genre, then click on "all songs". And you can have random turned on or off.

Also, I do all this with erland's dynamic playlists and sql playlist (for more control and so that I don't accidentally add 50,000 songs to a single playlist).

Mnyb
2012-09-22, 11:44
.and we have music ip and stuff or apple genius but it still fall short

castalla
2012-09-22, 11:55
you can do this now. in LMS go to artist or genre, then click on "all songs". And you can have random turned on or off.

Also, I do all this with erland's dynamic playlists and sql playlist (for more control and so that I don't accidentally add 50,000 songs to a single playlist).

Good grief! Blow me down - I've never noticed that before! I need new spectacles.

PasTim
2012-09-22, 13:00
you can do this now. in LMS go to artist or genre, then click on "all songs". And you can have random turned on or off.

Also, I do all this with erland's dynamic playlists and sql playlist (for more control and so that I don't accidentally add 50,000 songs to a single playlist).
Erland's tools, and the things you can do by adding to or modifying his basic tools, give you more control over what you want to play than anything else I have yet found :-)

GeeJay
2012-09-22, 20:25
Erland's tools, and the things you can do by adding to or modifying his basic tools, give you more control over what you want to play than anything else I have yet found :-)

And until someone replicates that, I will stick with my SBs until they die and I can no longer find replacements.

nekomatic
2012-09-25, 00:17
Yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Genome_Project

Pandora uses this technology to build their playlists....

See also The Echo Nest (http://the.echonest.com/).

Kellen
2012-09-25, 19:17
Such a shame that these products get removed.

How much longer will the software be updated for? I was going to buy a Android tablet to remote control my Touch. But now I am concernd that they won't work together in the future due to possibly firmware incompatible reasons. Should I be?

Brian Ritchie
2012-09-26, 09:48
I only discovered that SBs are discontinued via an email from Ripcaster suggesting that I "trade-up" (?) my Transporter to something in the Linn DS range! But I still shiver in horror every time I see the term "UPnP": every UPnP device I've tried to use has been awful. There's always some function that I've considered critical that is simply not supported, and impossible to add on. (Can I create and control slideshows on my UPnP-enabled TV? No way. etc.)

I've been wondering for several years, what would I do if my Transporter went kaput? Last year I bought a Cyrus X MP Qd (or some arrangement of those letters) which has a built-in D2A converter. Though I prefer the Transporter's line output, I always thought that I could fall back on the Cyrus, and perhaps connect one of my other Squeezeboxen, should the T die. When they've all gone (assuming that they do), I'm not sure what I'll do; maybe some sort of tiny computer with a massive hard drive (or perhaps massive SSD by then?) feeding the amp's d2a directly.

That would only give us music in one room. Elsewhere, I'd probably have something portable, with its own copy of our library. I'm rarely bothered about syncing multiple rooms these days (though in part this is because our Virgin Media router's WiFi is too unreliable; either that or our Boom is on its way out already). Ideally it would have as good a sound as the Boom. (I've tried plugging an iPod into the Boom, and it's just not in the same league!)

But the beasts aren't dead yet. Who knows what will be available by the time they are? Lossless audio, sync'd from the cloud?

-- Brian

mherger
2012-12-14, 16:43
> See also 'The Echo Nest' (http://the.echonest.com/).

Ok, so I did investigate their API a bit (it's extensive!). I do mostly compare with MusicIP (which I've been running for years), as I'd like to have a replacement for smart mixing my own collection. Tests were run on both my dev machine (about 3.5k tracks, MacBook Pro, SSD) as well as my main server (20k tracks, Atom based, 2.5" HD).

As The Echo Nest is engine behind most of the larger music services' smart features, I did obviously experience some of the same behaviour as using those. For the differences to eg. Last.fm and Pandora, see this blog by one of the EN founders:

http://notes.variogr.am/post/37675885491/how-music-recommendation-works-and-doesnt-work

After playing with various implementations of smart playlists (MIP, Pandora, Last.fm, MOG, iHR, Deezer...) I'm glad he shares some of my concerns about them.

Pro TEN:
- little to no installation effort (assuming there's a plugin available - stay tuned ;-))
- available on any server hardware, even under-powered NAS devices
- support for Artist ("give me music from artists similar to A") and song ("give me similar tracks") mixes
- faster than MIP, both scanning/uploading as mixing on my (ymmv)
- they have a vast array of well documented options to tweak mixes, including BPM, mood, "more/less of this artist", hotttness (yes, hottt!) etc.
- Big plus for TEN: it's available and maintained today, while MIP is dangling on a string

Contra TEN:
- no SB implementation available - yet
- the free API access is limited. Only a number of users would be able to use a community driven solution.
- TEN doesn't know all my music, MIP does. I've got spotty mixes even with big names like Peter Gabriel.
- I personally prefer MIP's mixes. Exploring some of the more advanced parameters might improve this situation.


And here's a bit more information about some of above points:

- TEN requires you to provide them with some information about your local music collection (artist name & track titles). These stay stored on their servers accessible through some key. If you have privacy concerns: don't touch it. (But then we had to upload hashes identifiying our music to MIP as well, didn't we?)

- TEN doesn't need to scan your music. If you've got good tags, it's good enough to upload that minimum set of metadata plus some key to get things started.

- Uploading metadata for about 20k tracks to TEN was much faster on my Atom based server than importing the corresponding data from MIP (not to mention the scan time MIP needs itself). Creating a 75 track playlist seems quicker using TEN than MIP in my case.

- TEN can only mix tracks it knows about. While they claim to have information about 30mio tracks, it won't cover your neighbour's recording of the previous week. Or some more exotic recordings like eg. the German versions Peter Gabriel did of his 3rd and 4th albums. These latter wouldn't mix at all. MIP can handle these, as it scans your music, no matter what it is. Yes, you can upload such files to TEN to have them analyze them, but I doubt this is a reasonable approach.

- Mix quality: IMHO it's easier to have eg a "rock guitar" mix with MIP than with TEN. But then TEN's API is very powerful, and I've only scratched its surface. But it's the same feeling I had with many of the music services: TEN seems to rely more on meta information like "if you like artist A, then you might like B as well" or periods, whereas MIP is based on their analysis of the music itself. Eg. I'm always surprised how MIP would queue up live recordings if I did seed it with a live track. It must be the audience clapping or something which triggers this.

- TEN has tons of options to tweak. It's great to be able to tweak, but providing this in a good UI is difficult.

- The free TEN API access is limited: they only allow a certain number of queries per minute (20, upgradeable to 120). FWICT these are shared among all installations using the same API key, and they explicitly forbid using multiple API keys to work around this issue. OTOH they do mention other open source projects which were given less restrictive limits. The same applies to a limitation of 1000 profiles and mix session_ids: if I implemented a plugin and it became very popular, this might be another big issue, as there's at least one profile per installation.


As you can imagine I have not come to these conclusions without some coding. Now let's hope I'll find some more time over the Holidays to tinker around with this...

While I was typing these lines my Transporter was playing tunes based on some Peter Gabriel track I can't remember, mixing in tracks from Yes, Supertramp, Marillion, David Gilmour, Pink Floyd, Toto, Genesis, David Bowie, The Police... Almost 80s only. That's what I never liked about every "smart" playlist on all those music services which seem to be powered by TEN: They pin down PG to his big 80s hit Sledgehammer. Anything before and after that does not exist in their mixes. MIP doesn't do this.

Maybe I should increase the "adventurousness" value for the mix? Or lift the "min_energy" level? Too many options there...

menno
2012-12-15, 05:16
>
- The free TEN API access is limited: they only allow a certain number of queries per minute (20, upgradeable to 120). FWICT these are shared among all installations using the same API key, and they explicitly forbid using multiple API keys to work around this issue. OTOH they do mention other open source projects which were given less restrictive limits. The same applies to a limitation of 1000 profiles and mix session_ids: if I implemented a plugin and it became very popular, this might be another big issue, as there's at least one profile per installation.

As you can imagine I have not come to these conclusions without some coding. Now let's hope I'll find some more time over the Holidays to tinker around with this...


The TEN API sounds promising. Is there anything stopping each user using their own API key?

The reason I dont use MusicIP is because it needs to run on Windows and my system runs on Linux (DockStar)

Cheers,
Menno

pippin
2012-12-15, 05:31
You can use MusicIP on Linux, I do that.
Have a look at wiki.slimdevices.com

Mnyb
2012-12-15, 05:34
The TEN API sounds promising. Is there anything stopping each user using their own API key?

The reason I dont use MusicIP is because it needs to run on Windows and my system runs on Linux (DockStar)

Cheers,
Menno

The mip server runs fine on Linux (Clear OS in my case ) however the desktop app to analyse the files needs windows .

It may not be completely trivial to make it run on any linux box in the dockstar case it migth actually be the cpu that is the problem ? don't know if mip server runs on anything but x86 .

But that said I would also like to have mip replaced by something modern and supported ,mip is basically abandon-ware . And the need to run an extra server app that also needs to scan the files etc just so that i can use the sugarcube plugin is fiddly ?

If there is anything to test I could volunteer as crash test dummy :) but maybe not in december as I'm moving to another town and my stuff will be in boxes not actively running

mherger
2012-12-15, 07:03
The mip server runs fine on Linux (Clear OS in my case ) however the desktop app to analyse the files needs windows

I'm running both on my Linux box, though technically the UI presentation layer would run on my Mac through X Window.

As for the TEN API: I just got news that some of the limitations I was afraid of were removed. There's still a rate limit accessing their API which means we'd need to be careful not to do unneeded queries. And a limitation to 1000 catalogs per key. But both these limits seem to be soft and can be discussed. We'll see. Maybe my fear of having more than 1000 users is a bit optimistic actually :-).

cparker
2012-12-15, 10:34
Hi guys

Might be slightly going off topic :) But there is a Linux GUI and there is also GenPUID which can be scripted, so you dont need to have Windows.

14076

Cheers

sander
2012-12-15, 11:36
Might be slightly going off topic :) But there is a Linux GUI and there is also GenPUID which can be scripted, so you dont need to have Windows.


My problem is the last version of genpuid 1.4 can only update the Windows version of the database (1.9) so it's only good for archiving tags not to update the actual MIP database. When I ran the Windows version I could run genpuid with the multiple thread option on my desktop to update the database completely which was awesome, but sadly LMS really worked better under Linux so I had to give that up. I'd like to do the updating of the database using my desktop cpu instead of taxing my nas, but it can't get it to work as seamlessly under linux as I did under Windows.

The real limitation of MIP at this point isn't the platform but the processor if everything keeps moving away from x86. That to me is the only reason to look beyond MIP, since it really is unique in the entire music mixing arena for reading tracks on their own merit as opposed to reading from a central database. My, albeit limited, experience with Pandora is that you end up with really generic mixes which are so heavily weighted by the genre and artist that you end up with similar sounds regardless of what you pick. I'm also skeptical that any cloud-based service can make sense of the numerous tagging inconsistencies that naturally occur in big music collections, but I'm curious as how well they do.

MIP has definitely been one of the highlights for my of the Squeeze ecosystem and one of the main reasons that for me there is no next system beyond Squeeze only finding new ways to keep it going.

That said Dynamic playlists have largely supplanted MIP mixes for most of my day to day listening. If there was a way to integrate the two to either tweak MusicIP more easily (most of the settings in SugarCube, the official plugin, and dynamic mix are too hard to change or not even read) or integrate into dynamic playlists (filter the musicip tracks and reject them based on other criteria) that would negate the need for anything else.

SlimChances
2012-12-15, 16:35
I have been running MIP on Ubuntu using WINE emulator with success. Allows for fingerprinting/archiving

aubuti
2012-12-15, 21:04
The reason I dont use MusicIP is because it needs to run on Windows and my system runs on Linux (DockStar)
To echo the point of others, many of us run MusicIP just fine on many flavors of *nix. You don't even need to run it on a Windows emulator like WINE (mine runs fine on standard debian). Is your real problem the hardware, ie, that the DockStar CPU isn't x86?

Mnyb
2012-12-15, 22:35
I'm running both on my Linux box, though technically the UI presentation layer would run on my Mac through X Window.

As for the TEN API: I just got news that some of the limitations I was afraid of were removed. There's still a rate limit accessing their API which means we'd need to be careful not to do unneeded queries. And a limitation to 1000 catalogs per key. But both these limits seem to be soft and can be discussed. We'll see. Maybe my fear of having more than 1000 users is a bit optimistic actually :-).

As avsked can we use individual keys ? Or if get more than 1000 users , could some kind of subscription model be worked out ?
Understands that the echo nest serves clients with millions of users and may have scaled thier pricing accordingly :/

erland
2012-12-16, 01:23
As avsked can we use individual keys ?

No, their licensing explicitly says "Don't register for multiple API keys in an attempt to cirumvent rate limits."
Of course, if the plugin will be open source, you can always edit the code and change the API key to your own which isn't shared with other users. Just be aware of that TEN might not like this so it's probably not a good solution if a lot of users starts to do this.



Or if get more than 1000 users , could some kind of subscription model be worked out ?
Understands that the echo nest serves clients with millions of users and may have scaled thier pricing accordingly :/

It needs to be discussed with TEN, as I've understood they have no problem to increase this limit for commercial API keys, so it's just a matter if people would be interested to pay for it. A free beta limited to first 1000 registered users would probably be a good start and then take a discussion with TEN if the limitation of 1000 users becomes a problem. I suspect TEN probably wouldn't want to handle payments from individual users, so the plugin developer would probably have to handle payments from individual users, mainly because TEN probably doesn't want to handle a lot of small payments and support individual users as this requires a bit of work.

It wouldn't surprise me if the current MusicIP integration have less than 1000 users.
Generally it's only a very small percentage of the total Squeezebox user group that use third party plugins.
If the plugin is commercial and costs money to use, the number of users prepared to use it is significantly less than for a free plugin.

For reference, the SQL Playlist plugin (which is also related to smart playlists) have around 1000 users today.

So to sum it up, I wouldn't worry too much about the limitation of 1000 users at this stage of the project.

Mnyb
2012-12-16, 01:41
I'm not an so early adopter to the squeeze world and MIP was being abandon even then .

So I understands if MIP have problem to gain new users , it a bit of a threshold to get in on it .

However if some one writes a smart mix app that's just installs via the plugins menu and just works , I think that more users could be attracted . In fact I think it should be standard functionality in any music software to play similar songs from a seed track (as well as playlist editing) .

But this could be offsett by the decline of LMS/squeezeboxes , so the usual diehards together into the sunset :)

nelamvr6
2012-12-16, 01:43
For me there is currently no alternative.

I have been researching this a bit. Sure, there is Sonos. But Sonos doesn't have a server that runs on Linux, and it doesn't support anything above redbook. So all my 96/24 needledrops would have to be down sampled. Ugh. Not only is that a lot of work, but losing all that resolution is simply unacceptable.

I have read a bit about high end solutions from Olive, Meridian and Linn. Frankly, it's like no one in those companies has even heard of Linux. Is there any solution that runs on Linux? And no, I don't want to build a box...

Personally, I am seriously bummed out. I only found out about Squeezebox's demise today.

What's ironic (at least to me) is that I found out AFTER I ordered a pair of UE900 in ear monitors. Nothing like sending business to the company that killed one of the things I hold most dear...

Mnyb
2012-12-16, 01:52
I have nothing ( not much ) against meridians hifi ,but the sooloos streaming is just to expensive my squeeze stuff does the same and sound the same ( into my meridian hifi ) for a fraction of the cost.

rolski
2012-12-16, 03:03
....sooloos streaming is just too expensive, my squeeze stuff does the same and sounds the same....for a fraction of the cost....+1

nelamvr6
2012-12-16, 12:34
It looks like Cambridge Audio has a couple of solutions that might work nicely:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=952

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=604

SlimChances
2012-12-16, 12:46
The Cambridge player appears to read NTFS or FAT32 files so it would not work with a Linux system unless you had an NTFS partition with your music files rather than the default EXT4...in fact I am not sure if it will work with Linux at all looking at the Support page http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/support_products.php?PID=604&Title=Support

nelamvr6
2012-12-16, 12:57
The Cambridge player appears to read NTFS or FAT32 files so it would not work with a Linux system unless you had an NTFS partition with your music files rather than the default EXT4...in fact I am not sure if it will work with Linux at all looking at the Support page http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/support_products.php?PID=604&Title=Support


I don't think that's right. Both of those devices support UPnP, and they say right on the front page they work with NASs. If I set up XBMC on my Linux box, why wouldn't it work?

Where did you read about those restrictions?

Steven Moore
2012-12-16, 12:57
Moved to Apple TV a while back and don't regret it.
The sb2 is in the drawer now waiting for the call from a tech museum or given other posts perhaps ebay.
Atv for me works great with very little problems and the sound is great.
It's a pity that sb's software for me anyway got very unreliable and the price remained relatively high.
If they had produced a box under £100 with iTunes like simplicity and integration it may still be here.
So have a look at the atv. I know some hate Apples stuff particularly iTunes but its a good and keenly priced system.