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michael123
2012-08-22, 11:39
just wondering..

Transporter killed.. sadly.. but true.

But no builds for half a year? No features added,
same rudimentary GUI running for years..

What's going on?

Can we get any kind of roadmap?

--Michael

erland
2012-08-22, 12:01
Can we get any kind of roadmap?

No, we won't get any official roadmap, Logitech will keep information about new major products or features secret until they are ready to announce them.
What kind of functionality are you missing which you would like to be included in the next major release ?

michael123
2012-08-22, 12:14
The library based today with this one-hour scanning is less convenient that it might be.
Browsing my 3000+ album library is not possible basically. I need to use search..
and I want the search engine to be more powerful (see J.River for example)
Tags are not visible unless I click on the specific song

Sox transcoding is slow and kills the server sometimes, and quite always there is a delay of 10-15 seconds before streaming.
Today there is a LOT of content with > 96Khz sampling rate

Built-in high-quality parametric EQ (center frequency, Q, amplification/attenuation gain)

Stability - once in a while Squeezebox server stuck

Support for tablets - android application for Squeezebox is not working for me, the most-recent album it displays was added to the library few months ago.

erland
2012-08-22, 13:43
The library based today with this one-hour scanning is less convenient that it might be.
Browsing my 3000+ album library is not possible basically. I need to use search..
and I want the search engine to be more powerful (see J.River for example)

Are you using a computer, tablet, smartphone or something else when you browse/search your library ?



Tags are not visible unless I click on the specific song

Which tags would you like to see and in which context/place would you like to see them ?



Support for tablets - android application for Squeezebox is not working for me, the most-recent album it displays was added to the library few months ago.

Are you saying that you don't see all albums in it ?
Even if they are visible when you browse the Squeezebox Server/Logitech Media Server web interface on a computer ?
I assume you have tried restarting the app and tablet to make sure it doesn't help ?
Have you only tried Logitech's app or have you also tried the third party apps, for example "Orange Squeeze" or "Squeeze Commander" ?

garym
2012-08-22, 14:25
The library based today with this one-hour scanning is less convenient that it might be.
Browsing my 3000+ album library is not possible basically. I need to use search..
and I want the search engine to be more powerful (see J.River for example)
Tags are not visible unless I click on the specific song

Sox transcoding is slow and kills the server sometimes, and quite always there is a delay of 10-15 seconds before streaming.
Today there is a LOT of content with > 96Khz sampling rate

Built-in high-quality parametric EQ (center frequency, Q, amplification/attenuation gain)

Stability - once in a while Squeezebox server stuck

Support for tablets - android application for Squeezebox is not working for me, the most-recent album it displays was added to the library few months ago.

Ouch. Sounds bad. But seems worse than it should be. I have about 5,000 CDs, about 70,000 mostly FLAC rips, virtually nothing other than 16/44.1. I'm running on vortexbox appliance machines (which are not super powerful) at two different locations and I can browse very easily, artist or album, from either the WebGUI, or mostly I use either ipeng or squeezepad (on iphones/ipad) or SQUEEZEPLAY on a windows laptop on my network. Everything is almost instant when browsing.

That said, I'd like a high quality EQ and a more modern, configurable LMS interface as well. I'm used to the interface, and at least it is snappy for me in browsing or searching, but it could be updated for sure. I'd argue for better (any) smart playlist approach as well. Of course, I do very well with erland's plugins, but at this point this sort of thing should be built in to basic product.

michael123
2012-08-22, 20:54
Hi

yes, playlists and favorites are very basic.
I am not a UX designer, again, look Sooloos or other frameworks.

I am usually using one of my laptops, sometimes I am trying to use a tablet. SqueezeControl (quite a nice app, pity it is not supported anymore) works there, Logitech's application 'forgot' about a hundred of albums

Tags I am using are comments and sometimes album artist + derived from the data: sample size, sample rate

pippin
2012-08-22, 23:58
Let's see one thing very clear when it comes to fancy features like smarter playlists, on-the-fly transcoding to fancy formats and sample rates and especially complex library management: there is NOTHING else on the market for streaming clients that even comes close to the Squeezebox in this regard.

Yes, Apple and Sonos are easier to set up, yes, Sonos supports more streaming services, yes, there is PC software that can do much more.
But if you want to stream to a HiFi device and you want to manage your own library in complex and flexible ways, all others will give you folders, artists, genres, tracks and playlists and that's it. No fancy playlist management, no fancy statistics stuff, most are limited to a few sample rates and format, no France metadata plugins.
All of this you only get on the Squeezebox.

To all those complaining about the lack of additional feature creep in the basic Squeezebox product: be happy about what you've got and try 3rd party stuff because you have no idea about what you might lose should the Squeezebox once really go away or should Logitech continue to mainly focus on mainstream features.

michael123
2012-08-23, 01:31
No, I am not happy.

I want to see MAJOR release every year, and service packs every quarter.
I do not want to see basic feature set for 5 years.

RE: Apple / Sonos - less relevant for me specifically, I am comparing to more upscale/audiophile-oriented market - Sooloos, Olive, QSonix, etc.

Squeezebox is outdated, aging product.
It was once an innovative startup from California, especially when Transporter was introduced it was on the edge.

- When version 8.0 is out?
- What features will be introduced?
- GUI/UX changes?
- Performance?
- Support for portable devices?
- Sound Quality, EQ?

pippin
2012-08-23, 02:07
RE: Apple / Sonos - less relevant for me specifically, I am comparing to more upscale/audiophile-oriented market - Sooloos, Olive, QSonix, etc.

OK, tell me about the library management and playlist management features Olive or Sooloos have.
Also: if you want an xk$ system, buy one and not a 2xx$ system.


Squeezebox is outdated, aging product.

May be. I just say: show me one that has more to offer WRT the aspects I mentioned.
Again: SB is not a x000$ system and it never will be. If that's what you want, go somewhere else. Oh, you don't get what you want there, now why are you complaining?


It was once an innovative startup from California, especially when Transporter was introduced it was on the edge.

And it was a dead end. Too expensive for mainstream users and too close to the mainstream for audiophiles. It's great but there's no market for this.


- When version 8.0 is out?

Probably never. But what is a number giving you? Would you be more happy if 7.8 was called 8.0 instead? Like with Firefox where I now have 4 major releases each year and I can't even tell you about a single change since 3 major releases ago? Is that what you want?


- What features will be introduced?
- GUI/UX changes?
- Performance?
- Support for portable devices?
- Sound Quality, EQ?
What do you want? These are just topics, what "portable device" support do you want beyond all that's already available? What does Olive or Sooloos offer here? Which GUI changes? Which features?
SQ will not get better, it's already too high end for 99% of the potential market, people don't appreciate it.

michael123
2012-08-23, 03:29
pippin,

you're selling a commercial product .. so the current state of things is comfortable for you. sort of, until the line is totally killed.
iPeng is a nice application (when I tried it), although I work with Android devices.

I paid Logitech so far around 3000$ for Transporter, Squeezebox 3 and Radio,
and I'm willing to pay for the software upgrade as well (50$ a year?).

It is not open-source anyway since Transporter firmware is closed.

michael123
2012-08-23, 03:36
btw, pippin,
you shall know the real situation on the market given the sales of iPeng

pippin
2012-08-23, 03:46
The server software is open and you didn't give a single point, yet, of what you are actually expecting except for unspecified "major releases".
What are you missing and who offers this?

I'm definitely not happy with how Logitech is handling it's product line, to the contrary and you can be sure I'm not just sitting here and hoping for the best but all these claims how bad the Squeezeboxes are with references to imaginary fancy features that nobody else is really offering is grossly exaggerated.

michael123
2012-08-23, 03:52
Sooloos have quite power search engine, J.River have quite sophisticated GUI, and they have parametric EQ (as well as Amarra)
All handle 192/24, many applications today handle DSD

[ using Sox is a patch. Those like me who need to use it for half of their catalog suffer from poor performance, delays and freezes ]

But it is not that I am voting for some features.. I do not see anything on the horizon right now

pippin
2012-08-23, 04:01
Again: The Squeezebox is not a PC software. Tell me about devices which support all that AND have a decent UI. At the same time, not either or.

I don't say the Squeezebox is perfect, it's far from that. The search, for example, totally sucks, I agree on that.
I just STILL don't see anything better (overall) on the market. At no price point.

garym
2012-08-23, 04:34
Not recently, but I previously investigated Olive and it was very limited as compared with Squeezebox, although much more expensive. And to Pippin's point, I've seen nothing that comes close to the functionality (including sync across players, an important feature for me) combined with audio quality of the squeezeboxes AT ANY PRICE. My only real disappointment with Logitech is that they seem to have dropped the ball with marketing of the Squeezebox line.

p.s. regarding portable devices, I can play anything on my LMS server or streams via LMS to my iphones or ipads.

bernt
2012-08-23, 04:35
It's not dead, It's way ahead.

castalla
2012-08-23, 04:57
It's not dead, It's way ahead.

I agree ... best bit of media kit I've ever bought - and I've wasted a lot of cash on dud systems!

HeavyB
2012-08-23, 07:11
RE: "Transporter killed.. sadly.. but true."

What precisely do you mean by this? Has it been discontinued?

garym
2012-08-23, 07:13
RE: "Transporter killed.. sadly.. but true."

What precisely do you mean by this? Has it been discontinued?

I think it was discontinued several years ago. In some markets, logitech has been selling off its remaining stock, rebadged as the Transporter SE. It is identical to the original transporter, with a "plate" over the hole left from not having the large knob in the middle (as they ran out of that part and didn't remanufacture).

erland
2012-08-23, 10:18
Sometimes I wish all these "squeezebox is about to die" threads instead could be focused on posting specific ideas regarding what new/changed features users are missing. I started a thread previously about this:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94987-What-is-missing-from-your-Squeezebox-experience

Some features can only be implemented by Logitech, but a lot of features can be implemented by third party developers even if Logitech doesn't want to focus on implementing new features, all that's needed is that people post their specific ideas of how the Squeezebox could be improved. The ideas needs to be specific, as an example it's not enough to say that you want improved playlist management, you also need to say what you find frustrating with the current solution or what specific features you are missing in the current solution.

Also, honestly, it's kind of strange to ask if the product which more or less provides the best price/performance on the market is dead just because there haven't been a new software release during last 5 months (7.7.2 was released in end of March this year). I'm pretty sure a lot of other music streamer hardware vendors have had periods when there were more than 5 months since the last software release. I think some people just assume the product is dead because Logitech doesn't use the community for beta testing as much as they have done before, it's easy to make this mistake, I often do it also myself.

However, it's important to remember that it can just be because Logitech want to test things more before they make it available for us to beta test or that they are working with some top secret feature/hardware which they don't want us to know about. The situation has been pretty much similar for my third party plugins, I've done less plugin releases during 2011/2012, but this doesn't mean I have done less development, I've done a lot of music related development during 2011/2012, it's just that most of it hasn't reached a stage yet where it's ready to be exposed to the public. An advantage with Logitech doing less releases is actually that third party developers can focus more on implementing new features and less on adapting to interface/protocol changes introduced by Logitech, but the switch to SQLite in 7.6.0 caused quite a bit of work for me during first half of 2011.

Finally, since my Squeezebox setup currently is working great and I can extend it in more or less any way I want through third party plugins/applets or by patching the firmware, I don't see any urgent need to change anything as long as I don't have a critical need for new hardware. Also, with all the available third party Android and iOS Squeezebox player apps, it's easy to turn an old iOS or Android device into a Squeezebox if Logitech would stop selling their hardware. It's possible to spend the time complaining on Logitech, but personally even if I sometimes tends to get involved in threads like this one I prefer to spend the time improving and enjoying my Squeezebox system rather than complaining on Logitech which already provides the best streaming solution on the market for people with my needs.

cncb
2012-08-23, 10:40
For me, as a somewhat new user it is very frustrating getting support so it seems pretty dead. Good luck getting a reported bug fixed unless you get everyone on this forum to complain/vote about it and therefore don't even dream about a new feature request.

I would just like playlist groups (hierarchy) and predefined genre shuffle playlists (smartlists or whatever you want to call them). This kind of (standard) stuff should be built in and I shouldn't have to pay $50 to a 3rd-party developer to get it.

HeavyB
2012-08-23, 10:42
I think it was discontinued several years ago. In some markets, logitech has been selling off its remaining stock, rebadged as the Transporter SE. It is identical to the original transporter, with a "plate" over the hole left from not having the large knob in the middle (as they ran out of that part and didn't remanufacture).

Thank you for the clarification. I hadn't noticed.

JJZolx
2012-08-23, 10:56
For me, as a somewhat new user it is very frustrating getting support so it seems pretty dead. Good luck getting a reported bug fixed unless you get everyone on this forum to complain/vote about it and therefore don't even dream about a new feature request.

Are _any_ bugs being fixed these days? I no longer see any activity in the bug database from anyone working for Logitech.

pippin
2012-08-23, 11:30
I would just like playlist groups (hierarchy) and predefined genre shuffle playlists (smartlists or whatever you want to call them). This kind of (standard) stuff should be built in and I shouldn't have to pay $50 to a 3rd-party developer to get it.

So which other streaming hardware offers this "standard stuff"? Again: Not PC software (I would count iTunes since you can stream from there to real hardware but it can't do it, too).

erland
2012-08-23, 11:44
I would just like playlist groups (hierarchy) and predefined genre shuffle playlists (smartlists or whatever you want to call them). This kind of (standard) stuff should be built in and I shouldn't have to pay $50 to a 3rd-party developer to get it.

I completely agree that it should be included in the standard product, I've tried to convince Logitech about it since 2006.

However, the advantage with Squeezebox compared to other solutions is that with Squeezebox you can at least get the functionality, you just have to pay for SQL Playlist/Dynamic Playlist plugins to get it. Also, just to be correct, it's not really $50, the SQL Playlist plugin (which includes Dynamic Playlist) currently costs $20 for an unlimited license or $5 for a one year license.

As a side note, you can use the standard Random Mix plugin included in SBS/LMS to play random songs from a genre.

cncb
2012-08-23, 13:59
So which other streaming hardware offers this "standard stuff"? Again: Not PC software (I would count iTunes since you can stream from there to real hardware but it can't do it, too).

I don't understand. I consider LMS "PC software" since I run it on my PC (don't most people?). JRMC and MediaMonkey support both of those things as "streaming software" via UPnP which you can access with all kinds of hardware.

cncb
2012-08-23, 14:04
Also, just to be correct, it's not really $50, the SQL Playlist plugin (which includes Dynamic Playlist) currently costs $20 for an unlimited license or $5 for a one year license.


I stand corrected. $20 is not too bad but seems like a lot since I got a lifetime license for MediaMonkey for only $28. It is nice that you have offered your plugin to fill the void but I guess I have a hard time paying extra for this "standard" (my opinion) functionality after spending quite a bit on the hardware.

cncb
2012-08-23, 14:05
Are _any_ bugs being fixed these days? I no longer see any activity in the bug database from anyone working for Logitech.

Good question.

pippin
2012-08-23, 15:40
I don't understand. I consider LMS "PC software" since I run it on my PC (don't most people?). JRMC and MediaMonkey support both of those things as "streaming software" via UPnP which you can access with all kinds of hardware.

So you can play dynamic playlists on your UPnP device with JRMC or MediaMonkey and use your hierarchical playlists that way?
Then what let's you stick with the Squeezebox?

Probably the fact that you can't use it that way on the device or using a remote control but that you have to walk to your PC and get the functionality?
Does it work well?

garym
2012-08-23, 15:45
So you can play dynamic playlists on your UPnP device with JRMC or MediaMonkey and use your hierarchical playlists that way?
Then what let's you stick with the Squeezebox?

Probably the fact that you can't use it that way on the device or using a remote control but that you have to walk to your PC and get the functionality?
Does it work well?

agree, I'd be surprised if this was possible with JRMC or MM feeding the UPnP device. And I'd be even more shocked if I could control multiple UPnP devices, with some synched playback and some not. And if in fact any of this does work, do you get gapless playback on your UPnP device (of mp3 or FLAC for example)? This is often an issue with UpNP devices (lack of gapless playback).

garym
2012-08-23, 15:46
I don't understand. I consider LMS "PC software" since I run it on my PC (don't most people?). JRMC and MediaMonkey support both of those things as "streaming software" via UPnP which you can access with all kinds of hardware.

If you use MM, you might be interested in this software:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?89046-MonkeySqueeze&highlight=monkeysqueeze

cncb
2012-08-23, 16:23
So you can play dynamic playlists on your UPnP device with JRMC or MediaMonkey and use your hierarchical playlists that way?
Then what let's you stick with the Squeezebox?

Probably the fact that you can't use it that way on the device or using a remote control but that you have to walk to your PC and get the functionality?
Does it work well?

No, the only thing you have to do at the PC is start the UPnP server portion of the software. At the UPnP device, you are presented hierarchical menus that you navigate with the device's remote and if you select a dynamic playlist it retrieves the tracks as expected.

I chose the Squeezebox because it is a dedicated audio device with a nice built-in display and can handle volume leveling without (unnecessary) conversion. The UPnP devices also generally have a poor interface because they are not purposely built to listen to music.

cncb
2012-08-23, 16:28
If you use MM, you might be interested in this software:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?89046-MonkeySqueeze&highlight=monkeysqueeze

I'm not really interested in that because I don't want to have to go to my PC to select music to play on my Squeezebox.

I have been tempted to develop a LMS plugin that would query the MM database and present hierarchical playlist menus as well as allow playback of the "AutoPlaylists" defined in MM. But, figuring out how to do all that in PERL with the undocumented LMS API would take me too long...

MrC
2012-08-23, 16:34
I'm playing a dynamic playlist (smartlist) with JRMC via Whitebear to an SB Radio now. Works great, and the Whitebear/JRMC combo does gapless.

garym
2012-08-23, 16:37
I'm playing a dynamic playlist (smartlist) with JRMC via Whitebear to an SB Radio now. Works great, and the Whitebear/JRMC combo does gapless.

interesting. good to know. curious, does this combo have a way of doing synched playback across several SB players? Also, can you control JRMC in someway from a smart phone or ipad (something like ipeng for LMS?).

MrC
2012-08-23, 16:42
interesting. good to know. curious, does this combo have a way of doing synched playback across several SB players?

DLNA doesn't have the microsecond timing required to do synching. If the SBs are synced (via LMS/SBS), sync works as expected.

[edit: broken at the time of this post, apparently has since been resolved]

garym
2012-08-23, 16:45
DLNA doesn't have the microsecond timing required to do synching. If the SBs are synced (via LMS/SBS), sync works as expected.

Are you saying that if one syncs the players first from LMS, then starts JRMC later and plays someting via DLNA, the players stay synched? I'm guessing that is not what you mean.

MrC
2012-08-23, 17:23
Are you saying that if one syncs the players first from LMS, then starts JRMC later and plays someting via DLNA, the players stay synched? I'm guessing that is not what you mean.

I appear to be mistaken about syncing. I was certain this worked, but seems it does not.

[edit: no mistake. The issue has since been resolved.]

aubuti
2012-08-23, 19:57
I'm not really interested in that because I don't want to have to go to my PC to select music to play on my Squeezebox.
I've never used MM, but it was my understanding that it could be controlled via a remote. At least that's my recollection from several postings by a user by the name of nicolas75.

erland
2012-08-23, 22:26
I would absolutely love if there were some competitor, either based on UPnP or based on some proprietary solution, which had similar features and characteristics as the Squeezebox.
Unfortunately I haven't found anything yet within the same price range and I suspect the situation is pretty much the same for most other community users. The closest thing on the market is probably Sonos but it still have some limitations which I personally don't like, the only useful I've found on the market related to UPnP is the Kinsky software produced by Linn (but Linn is in very a different price range compared to Logitech devices).

Personally, I refuse to consider the Squeezebox to be dead until either:
- Logitech actually stops selling it.
or
- Someone else produces something in similar price range that's better than the Squeezebox.

The best we can do until this happens is to give Logitech and third party developers our ideas of what's missing, list exactly which operations we find frustrating or list specific ideas of new features we would like to have. By doing that we will prolong the Squeezebox life, with or without the help of Logitech, until some competitor eventually reaches similar functionality so they can been a good alternative. But let's use another thread for listing ideas of possible improvements, for example this one:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94987-What-is-missing-from-your-Squeezebox-experience

If we already now consider the Squeezebox to be dead, just because there haven't been a software release during last 5 months, it will just result in that we won't set the level the competitors have to reach, they can just stay where they are since the market leader (from a feature perspective) is considered to be dead (by the users) while the manufacturer (Logitech) still sells it. Wouldn't it be better if we tried to spend the time raising the level by suggesting improvements, rather than lowering it by trying to convince everyone that the Squeezebox is dead ?

Finally, I have to say that there are very few electronic devices in my home that survives over 6 years after the purchase and still is considered to be one of the best on the market after I've owned them 6 years. The Squeezebox Classic from 2006 is pretty much the only one I have, it's a while since Logitech stopped selling it but that doesn't stop it from working excellently. This is also why I'm not that worried if Logitech doesn't produce 5 new software releases every year, if they need to do more in-house/analysis/prototyping work during 2012 to be able to figure out what new music streaming devices to produce 2013 I'm fine with that, I don't need constant updates/bug fixes on something that generally works very good for its main purpose which is to make it possible to enjoy my music. This is also why I'm not worried about recommending a Squeezebox to someone that wants a music streaming solution to enjoy the music in the whole house, the Squeezebox will continue to work for this purpose for a long time, with or without Logitech producing new hardware and software releases. I would love to see Logitech more involved in the community but I can also understand that sometimes they need to work more in-house to be able to figure out the next big thing instead of spending their time fixing a lot of less important bugs.

vagskal
2012-08-24, 01:21
Sending music to a synced player from JRiver Media Center via WhiteBear is broken in the current release version of WhiteBear, but AndrewFG has fixed it. LMS or iPeng or something else on the Squeezebox side must first sync the players.

There are several ways to control JRMC and sending music to Squeezeboxes via WhiteBear using a web interface or an app on portable devices. JRemote for iThings is a nice app, although not as nice as iPeng yet. But one big advantage with the JRMC apps is that you can use JRMC to build your own interface that will be used by the apps.

I have a rather large collection and the performance issues I have with LMS are getting worse and worse as the collection grows. It has now come to a point where I seriously investigate the possibility of pointing LMS to an empty folder and using JRMC via WhiteBear to send music to the Squeezeboxes. The kind AndrewFG is working very hard to accommodate me in every which way and I feel we are soon there. JRMC is very good for large collections and should you hit a limit of some kind you just tell the developers and they fix it, overnight sometimes. This - having a very active and responsive direct contact with the actual developers of a commercial product - is something that reminds me of how it was around here before Slimdevices was sold to Logitech.

MrC
2012-08-24, 07:55
Sending music to a synced player from JRiver Media Center via WhiteBear is broken in the current release version of WhiteBear, but AndrewFG has fixed it. LMS or iPeng or something else on the Squeezebox side must first sync the players.

Aha, I was sure it used to work. Thanks for the confirming.

pallfreeman
2012-08-24, 08:07
Are _any_ bugs being fixed these days? I no longer see any activity in the bug database from anyone working for Logitech.

FWIW, I reported a bug early this morning and got a friendly email about it this afternoon. I'm finding this gloom-laden forum pretty hard going at the moment, so I'm very relieved indeed that my favourite software ever is still getting some love.

Jeff Flowerday
2012-08-24, 10:32
I have a rather large collection and the performance issues I have with LMS are getting worse and worse as the collection grows. It has now come to a point where I seriously investigate the possibility of pointing LMS to an empty folder and using JRMC via WhiteBear to send music to the Squeezeboxes. The kind AndrewFG is working very hard to accommodate me in every which way and I feel we are soon there. JRMC is very good for large collections and should you hit a limit of some kind you just tell the developers and they fix it, overnight sometimes. This - having a very active and responsive direct contact with the actual developers of a commercial product - is something that reminds me of how it was around here before Slimdevices was sold to Logitech.


I have 110,000+ tracks and I was forced to used a ramdisk for the cache and database. But LMS has been working very well since implementing it.

erland
2012-08-24, 10:46
I have 110,000+ tracks and I was forced to used a ramdisk for the cache and database. But LMS has been working very well since implementing it.

Was it getting better or worse with 7.6 when they introduced SQLite as database engine ?

pallfreeman
2012-08-24, 11:57
I have 110,000+ tracks and I was forced to used a ramdisk for the cache and database. But LMS has been working very well since implementing it.

I'm something of an obsessive performance geek when I get the time. I've tried ZFS in the NAS, adding SSDs to the ZFS, using 15K "enterprise" disks with a caching controller; using an SSD in the LMS box, an additional jumbo-framed SAN, and running LMS on CPUs way too powerful. Amongst other things. All a waste of time and money.

With dbhighmem enabled, what made the biggest difference to performance for me is this:

push @{$sql}, 'PRAGMA cache_size = 2000000';

in Utils/SQLiteHelper.pm.

FFS. :)

michael123
2012-08-24, 13:42
I just STILL don't see anything better (overall) on the market. At no price point.

http://vimeo.com/21880281
http://www.sonataserver.com/

garym
2012-08-24, 14:15
http://vimeo.com/21880281
http://www.sonataserver.com/

this looks interesting. They say it is based on JRMC. Interesting that it uses a dbpa based ripper. It does seem they are trying to do all the right things within a DLNA type system. The one thing I couldn't discover from their website is whether it can also handle music services or internet radio. I saw nothing that indicates access to pandora, mog, spotify, siriusXM, etc. or even just free internet radio streams. Also, the multiple player aspect seems to be multiple zones all tied to the player (hardwired) versus multiple room players (connected via ethernet or WIFI) that are synched. Hard to tell from the web discussion. Also a bit confused by the soundcard discussion. One of the things I like about Squeezebox stuff is that it is not related at all to whatever soundcard I happen to have in the computer running LMS. I don't have to mess with WASAPI, etc. that they mention.

Edit. Looks like the multiple zones are NOT hardwired. Instead, I gather they are separate streams to different DLNA players. Thus their call for powerful hardware.

Grumpy Bob
2012-08-25, 02:52
http://vimeo.com/21880281
http://www.sonataserver.com/

This is the dealbreaker for me:

"The SONATA music Server software works with Windows XP, Vista and 7; Home Starter, Premium and Ultimate 32 and 64 bits."

I'm not a Windows user, and I think that one of the advantages of LMS is that it is available for several OS platforms.

Me, I get everything I need from my Squeezebox system (2xSBR, 1xSB3 and 1xSBT, LMS running on a QNAP NAS box): I'm not offended by the web GUI, and I like to use Squeezepad and iPeng on a iPad to control the system. I'm happiest when server software updates are infrequent.

Robert

aubuti
2012-08-25, 06:53
http://vimeo.com/21880281
http://www.sonataserver.com/
okay, that's software that appears to be slicker than LMS web ui (not difficult), but not necessarily better than one of the 3rd party tablet apps. After spending EUR 100 on that, what about the better hardware?

Jeff Flowerday
2012-08-25, 07:56
I'm something of an obsessive performance geek when I get the time. I've tried ZFS in the NAS, adding SSDs to the ZFS, using 15K "enterprise" disks with a caching controller; using an SSD in the LMS box, an additional jumbo-framed SAN, and running LMS on CPUs way too powerful. Amongst other things. All a waste of time and money.

With dbhighmem enabled, what made the biggest difference to performance for me is this:

push @{$sql}, 'PRAGMA cache_size = 2000000';

in Utils/SQLiteHelper.pm.

FFS. :)


I run on windows.

dpaws
2012-08-25, 12:50
I do understand the sentiment behind the thread, the initial loss of (genius) Sean Adams from the team and then Logitech's failure to rival the Apple TV may have dampened the enthusiasm for new players to be produced. However, I have always felt that one of the greatest strengths behind the brand has been this forum and its ingenious software developers who have kept improving the overall package with countless plug ins and apps for many years. Also Squeezepad, iPeng - I salute you!

The Transporter was years ahead of its time but with the emergence of cheaper storage, higher file higher resolutions and the introduction of asynchronous UBS as the preferred digital interface for audiophiles then it's time for something new to head the family. This may arrive from the various Vortexbox powered appliances or other PC software driven derivatives.

I have tried owning alternatives but I keep coming back to LMS. At present there's a Transporter, a Touch, 5 Booms and a new "audiophile" SOTM inspired server in the house where as the Sooloos, the Naim and the Bang & Olfsen have all been and gone.

I'm sure if Logitech did pull the plug then they'd sell the "SlimDevices" package on to a new owner for it to be reborn yet again - and with today's methods of raising funding online it wouldn't be too bizzarre to see the marque owned by the forum members themselves!

Thanks guys -- love it!!!

JJZolx
2012-08-25, 13:55
I'm sure if Logitech did pull the plug then they'd sell the "SlimDevices" package on to a new owner for it to be reborn yet again

Not a chance. Not even a remote one. They'd just write it off.

The only question that remains is whether they're working on any products that would give them a reason to keep mysqueezebox.com running after they've sold the last of the Squeezeboxes.

garym
2012-08-25, 14:01
Frankly, I'd be reasonably happy with a continued mysb.com that kept up with music services and continued to work with Lms. I can do about all I want with existing Lms and 3rd party plugins. I've already got 2 touch players and a radio for backup units when my hardware starts breaking.

bluegaspode
2012-08-25, 14:07
I small promising sign today.

The German ct' magazin today writes (it's a wrapup about what is to be expected from the IFA consumer show regarding music streaming services)
"It is rumored that Sonos will announce a new player, also a new SqueezeBox is said to appear soon. If one of the new players will be presented at IFA isn't known yet"

The same author (in a test of music streaming devices) wrote about Squeezeboxes two months ago, that it's a pity that Logitech only has two devices left and there is nothing known about the future.

So at least his information background changed in the meantime.