Squeezebox vs. Apple TV - Give me some arguments for keeping my Squeezeboxes

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  • -tm-
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 17

    Squeezebox vs. Apple TV - Give me some arguments for keeping my Squeezeboxes

    I have been using Squeezeboxes happily for a long time. I even own one from Slimdevices, the original manufacturer before Logitech acquired it. I'm using Apple TV in parallel for about a year now. Barely switching on the Squeezebox I decided it is time for decluttering and removing Squeezebox stuff from my setup. Here is why. (First paragraph gives some background and other ones my own arguments.)

    I started with Slimserver (now: Squeezebox Server) on a Synology NAS. This setup soon turned out to not have enough performance when wanting to use a room correction plugin. Response times were also slow. Therefore I invested in a dedicated low-noise and low-power-consumption server. It was great! Multiple rooms, either synchronized or playing different music. The first problem arose when using the iPod app (now: Music) on my iPhone more and more when on the go. How to best synchronize? Especially ratings were important to me as I use these a lot. Thanks to Erland there are a couple of great plugins. It took time to properly setup, but problem solved. The next problem came when switching my hardware to Macs (after too many years of Win and Linux). I found it to be a pain always syncing to the (Windows) server in addition to syncing to my Mac. Furthermore I wanted to keep my music library on the Mac. Although there were a couple of solutions for sharing or even syncing iTunes libraries between computers (and between Mac and Windows) all had their pitfalls and none was really convenient. My solution was installing Squeezebox Server on the Mac and retiring the Windows server. Fine, but do not expect the translation to be easy. MusicIP, the other service I am using a lot for exploring my vast music library, did not work well. In fact I had to re-analyze my whole library. Additionally, syncing of ratings between iTunes and Sqeezebox Server got messed up. I had to invest time and contributed an AppleScript-based tool for doing the final sync. Things got better again with iPeng and the iPad and I considered myself to be a happy Squeezebox user again. Then I got an Apple TV mainly by request of my girlfriend who wanted to watch movies and stream her music to my HiFi as well. Could you say no to a sweet beloved one? I could not although her taste of music is probing my tolerance level ever since, but that is another story. Over the last year I slowly discovered the power of Apple TVs music streaming capabilities. And today I see too few benefits of using Squeezebox over Apple TV.

    Here are my arguments in favor of Apple TV:
    1. Sound quality: Apple TV sounds better then Squeezebox. I would have never guessed this. I have fairly good HiFi equipment. Most of my music is either in Apple Lossless (ALAC, which is like FLAC) or 320 CBR mp3 format. Apple TV is connected via HDMI. Squeezebox is connected via optical output. Squeezebox Server runs at highest audio settings. Friends confirmed the difference in audible pleasure. Apple TV sounds clearer, livelier, and has a broader stage for presenting the musicians and/ or sounds.
    2. It just works: Have you ever hestitated installing a new Squeezebox Server release? Waiting for other users on the forum reporting their experience? I have. I had troubles with some updates e.g. with sleep/wake functionality of the server. I took time to fix these. Not so with Apple TV. No maintenance. Nothing to fix. Nothing to configure.
    3. My focus is on listening and enjoying music again: At first sight the possibilities of Apple TV are limited compared to Squeezebox. But do not underestimate the power of iTunes. Smart playlists are wonderful. And even Genius has evolved. However, the most important point is that the lack of endless configuration options is benefitial. You really learn how to use your equipment well. How to use iTunes DJ and the free Remote iOS app. It becomes transparent and what remains is only the music and you. I am primary attracted to music and not to technical configuration and this attraction is satisfied much more by Apple TV.

    Here are my arguments in favor of Squeezebox:
    4. There are more services available: Built-in or via plugins you can connect to multiple services like LastFM or Deezer. However, for most of these, apps exist on iOS as well which let you stream directly to Apple TV via AirPlay. You can even have all of your music in the cloud with iTunes Match removing the necessity of having a computer running while listening to your music. The one service I use a lot is TuneIn Radio. This is available on iOS and it is much more convenient to operate on the iPhone than on Squeezebox. I do not know how Apple does it, but streaming rarely affects battery power. I just streamed a 2h HD movie and it took only 2% of battery power.
    5. MusicIP is lightyears better than Genius: Yes, that is true. However, there are drawbacks. You have to analyze your music and we do not know how long this will work given that development of MusicIP has stopped years ago. Spicefly costs money as well as other indespensible plugins. That is okay given all the time and energy the developers have invested. Coping with this restriction I have discovered the power of listening to one album from start to end.
    6. I can stream my whole library to my iPhone using iPeng: I can do the same using iTunes Match.

    I currently have not found enough arguments to keep my Squeezeboxes. They require attention as most devices do. Attention for maintenance. Attention for user interaction. My attention is limited. I want to focus on music and nothing else in this context. Am I missing something? Thanks for your thoughts. (Note that these arguments might hold true for pure Mac environments only.)
  • pippin
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2007
    • 14809

    #2
    Wait until one of the next iTunes or OSX updates blows away the "just works" appeal of the Apple setup and you know that versioning issues are not limited to the Squeezebox.

    I know what I'm taking about. Apart from the Squeezeboxes I have an almost purely Apple setup here these days but I do experience these kinds of issues once your systems grow older and you've seen more than the first release.

    iTunes is a notorious troublemaker for me as is iTunes match (I do have a decent number of tracks in my iTunes matched library that I've never seen before while almost half of my own library is missing even though it claims everything was uploaded).
    Today I wanted to stream a YouTube video from my iPad 3 to the TV just to get some weird error message that I did not have a HDMI cable or something was wrong with the cable. I believe what it was trying to tell me is that AppleTV2 doesn't support the resolution I'm trying to stream but who knows, it didn't sound anything like that.

    I have had more than one case where I downloaded a movie for hours from iTunes just to then learn that for some reason it can't be shown

    But what's worst, AppleTV radiates so much EMV that I lose half of my TV channels once it starts downloading stuff.

    I could go on about Lion which is a complete dud but want to spare you the rant, I assume Mountain Lion will fix this as Apple seems to have adopted Microsoft's habit of failing with every second OS release.

    Don't get me wrong, I love my Mac and my iThingies it's just that I had to learn over time that their quality isn't better than other people's, it's just that initially everything works out of the box, the problems start with the updates....
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

    Comment

    • erland
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 11322

      #3
      Originally posted by -tm-
      I currently have not found enough arguments to keep my Squeezeboxes. They require attention as most devices do. Attention for maintenance. Attention for user interaction. My attention is limited. I want to focus on music and nothing else in this context. Am I missing something? Thanks for your thoughts. (Note that these arguments might hold true for pure Mac environments only.)
      Main reasons to use the Squeezebox concept to me are:
      1. Possibility to have players in rooms where I don't have space for external speakers and amplifiers.
      2. Central display in the middle of the room that doesn't require the TV to be turned on.
      3. Open source solution with support for third party add-ons which makes it possible for me to fix things if they don't work as I like.

      A friend of mine decided to switch to AppleTV and seems happier than he ever was with the Squeezebox, but he don't have any issues with always having the TV powered on and he never got any Squeezebox for the bedroom or kitchen, he just had a Classic for the living room. For Spotify he is using his iPad and use AirPlay to send it to AppleTV, works great but it seems to be a little hassle to have to turn on/off AirPlay all the time when you also want to do other things with the iPad. Feels a little bit like my living room worked 5 years ago before I got my first Harmony IR remote and had one remote for each device.

      For me it feels like the main arguments to keep Squeezebox would be if you have a need for players in different kinds of rooms. If I only wanted a single player in the living room I would probably at least consider to primarily use an AppleTV instead of Squeezebox. Mixing Apple stuff with other solutions tends to cause problems because of their "closed" strategy that makes it hard for other software to interact with theirs.
      Erland Lindmark (My homepage)
      Developer of many plugins/applets
      Starting with LMS 8.0 I no longer support my plugins/applets (see here for more information )

      Comment

      • bluegaspode
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2009
        • 3229

        #4
        I also think that if I'd only need one player where the main Hifi is, I would choose whatever there is available on the market (maybe even DLNA stuff).

        But in the meantime I own three Squeezebox Radios (Bedroom, Kitchen, Bathroom) and I couldn't replace them with Apple stuff anymore, because: well one needs knobs on the devices if there are in different Rooms. (For the same reason also Sonos lacks a lot for me).
        Also the Boom in the Kids Room is well used to turn on some music when he goes to bed - and I'm very happy, that I don't have to fiddle with some remote to do so (which would just lead to fights over the phone/tablet in the evening). (Sometimes I even enjoy just to put on some fairy tale in the morning remotely, to get 30min more sleep - that wouldn't be possible with any device, that cannot turn on its own boxes).

        So in the end it all boils down to your environment, and for me Squeezeboxes big advantage over other systems is still their very good multiroom capability but also their form factor.
        Did you know: SqueezePlayer will stream all your music to your Android device. Take your music everywhere!
        Remote Control + Streaming to your iPad? Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad
        Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? => why not try my Weather Forecast Applet
        Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? => why not try my Headphone Switcher Applet

        Comment

        • verypsb
          Senior Member
          • May 2008
          • 876

          #5
          Originally posted by -tm-
          2. It just works: Have you ever hestitated installing a new Squeezebox Server release? Waiting for other users on the forum reporting their experience? I have. I had troubles with some updates e.g. with sleep/wake functionality of the server. I took time to fix these. Not so with Apple TV. No maintenance. Nothing to fix. Nothing to configure.
          I never understand when people say that the Squeezebox system needs maintenance. I only have to fix the Squeezebox system when I messed it up myself, by installing 3rd party plug-ins, pre-release beta's or Windows fiddling. My first update on my iPad 2 had to be done twice. The first time it left the iPAD2 in an unusable state. Not a really good experience, is it?

          Originally posted by -tm-
          1. Sound quality: Apple TV sounds better then Squeezebox. I would have never guessed this. I have fairly good HiFi equipment. Most of my music is either in Apple Lossless (ALAC, which is like FLAC) or 320 CBR mp3 format. Apple TV is connected via HDMI. Squeezebox is connected via optical output. Squeezebox Server runs at highest audio settings. Friends confirmed the difference in audible pleasure. Apple TV sounds clearer, livelier, and has a broader stage for presenting the musicians and/ or sounds.
          This I just can't believe. It sounds like the demeanour exhibited by some people preferring the bad .mp3 over the better .flac, because that's the soundquality they have come to expect... However, maybe the HDMI on your system is better than the optical SPDIF.

          Originally posted by -tm-
          Here are my arguments in favor of Apple TV:
          2. It just works (...)
          3. My focus is on listening and enjoying music again (...)
          Isn't 3 just another way of saying 2?
          Last edited by verypsb; 2012-03-22, 08:13.
          Please vote:
          bug 1330 New music should work on creation date
          bug 17963 New and changed doesn't handle changed files
          bug 17799 Use a separator such as 'Also appears on' when viewing the albums by an artist
          bug 18054 Add support for 'Set Subtitle'/'Disc Subtitle' (ID3v2.4 TSST/ID3V2.3 TIT3)
          1x Boom, 1x Classic, 4x Controller, 1x Radio, 4x Receiver, 2x Touch

          Comment

          • verypsb
            Senior Member
            • May 2008
            • 876

            #6
            Originally posted by bluegaspode
            ...Squeezeboxes big advantage over other systems is still their very good multiroom capability but also their form factor.
            If only Logitech would understand this too... They don't if you look at their marketing.
            Please vote:
            bug 1330 New music should work on creation date
            bug 17963 New and changed doesn't handle changed files
            bug 17799 Use a separator such as 'Also appears on' when viewing the albums by an artist
            bug 18054 Add support for 'Set Subtitle'/'Disc Subtitle' (ID3v2.4 TSST/ID3V2.3 TIT3)
            1x Boom, 1x Classic, 4x Controller, 1x Radio, 4x Receiver, 2x Touch

            Comment

            • bernt
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2005
              • 867

              #7
              One big advantage with Squeezebox is LMS. It's the best music server software out there. (No, I'm not kidding)

              I like to keep everything in one location. Easy to maintain and easy to control.

              AirPlay works for casual listening but thats it.

              Other advantages is
              Display on the player.
              IR (Harmony, one remote to rule them all).
              Plugins.

              And it's so stable that it's almost boring.
              SB Touch optical to Hegel H90, Speakers Larsen 4.2
              Spare SB3
              AirPlay Bridge to Audio Pro A10
              Squeezelite-x connected to home LMS with ZeroTier One.
              SB Radio
              ReadyNAS 202
              iPeng

              Comment

              • AnthonioBEL
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2011
                • 125

                #8
                All -TM- would have to add to his set-up is one or two Airport Express base stations (to which you can attach speakers) in order to get multi-room capability.

                With software available to set up your NAS as an iTunes server, you would also solve the issue of having to have the iMac running in order to use AppleTV or these base stations. Especially if you can use the Apple remote app to control this server.

                My set-up is becoming more and more Apple too. The reason is simple. Apple creates an eco-system. The more "parts" of your digital entertainment you integrate into the Apple ecosystem, the easier life becomes.

                Comment

                • AnthonioBEL
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2011
                  • 125

                  #9
                  Originally posted by bernt
                  One big advantage with Squeezebox is LMS. It's the best music server software out there. (No, I'm not kidding)

                  I like to keep everything in one location. Easy to maintain and easy to control.
                  I actually agree with the above.
                  My problem is that I have a large music library, but I also have an immense movie and tv-programme library.
                  This means iTunes is easier to control it all.
                  Right now I use LMS for all my music-listening needs, but need to switch to iTunes for movies or tv programmes.

                  I'll probably end up at a juncture soon. Either LMS will get very improved DLNA capabilities, Or, I would go the Apple route as described in my previous post.

                  At the end of the day, it makes sense to have one software-package control all your digital media, whatever form it may take.

                  I find it annoying to have to use both LMS AND iTunes.

                  What will probably happen eventually, that I'll go the complete Apple route for my own media, and use the Squeezebox ecosystem for my son and his media

                  Comment

                  • servies
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 254

                    #10
                    Originally posted by -tm-
                    1. Sound quality: Apple TV sounds better then Squeezebox. I would have never guessed this. I have fairly good HiFi equipment. Most of my music is either in Apple Lossless (ALAC, which is like FLAC) or 320 CBR mp3 format. Apple TV is connected via HDMI. Squeezebox is connected via optical output. Squeezebox Server runs at highest audio settings. Friends confirmed the difference in audible pleasure. Apple TV sounds clearer, livelier, and has a broader stage for presenting the musicians and/ or sounds.
                    So both the Squeezebox and the Apple TV do nothing to the sound as the digital processing is done by your receiver... How then can it be that they sound different???

                    2. It just works: Have you ever hestitated installing a new Squeezebox Server release? Waiting for other users on the forum reporting their experience? I have. I had troubles with some updates e.g. with sleep/wake functionality of the server. I took time to fix these. Not so with Apple TV. No maintenance. Nothing to fix. Nothing to configure.
                    Probably it has something to do with really knowing what you're doing and not assuming you know and therefore pushing every button you can find without really thinking: "Do/Should I need/alter this or not?". Never had a problem with my squeezebox and squeezeboxserver except for some issues regarding weird characters in filenames...

                    3. My focus is on listening and enjoying music again: At first sight the possibilities of Apple TV are limited compared to Squeezebox. But do not underestimate the power of iTunes. Smart playlists are wonderful. And even Genius has evolved. However, the most important point is that the lack of endless configuration options is benefitial. You really learn how to use your equipment well. How to use iTunes DJ and the free Remote iOS app. It becomes transparent and what remains is only the music and you. I am primary attracted to music and not to technical configuration and this attraction is satisfied much more by Apple TV.
                    I just hate iTunes, it's a bloated piece of crap software, totally unflexible and only adheres to 1 standard: the Apple standard...

                    I do not know how Apple does it, but streaming rarely affects battery power. I just streamed a 2h HD movie and it took only 2% of battery power.
                    That's simple: your iPhone isn't streaming: It just told your Apple TV at what address it should look for the stream and the Apple TV did the rest.
                    There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't.

                    Comment

                    • pippin
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 14809

                      #11
                      Originally posted by AnthonioBEL
                      At the end of the day, it makes sense to have one software-package control all your digital media, whatever form it may take.
                      Why?
                      The use cases are very different (listen to music anywhere vs. in front if the TV; view one movie every evening vs. 20 tracks/hour; you watch a movie once a year or so vs. listening to the same music over and over again,....), the devices you listen on are different, too, so why do you need to use the same software. The server hardware can still be the same as can be the remote control.
                      ---
                      learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
                      Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
                      at penguinlovesmusic.com
                      New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

                      Comment

                      • pippin
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2007
                        • 14809

                        #12
                        Originally posted by servies
                        So both the Squeezebox and the Apple TV do nothing to the sound as the digital processing is done by your receiver... How then can it be that they sound different???
                        I'm not 100% sure, but Apple might apply some compression.
                        It's the same thing as a lot of people preferring mp3 sound as long as they don't know it's mp3.

                        Also: maybe there were volume differences, especially if the SB was not set to 100%.
                        ---
                        learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
                        Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
                        at penguinlovesmusic.com
                        New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

                        Comment

                        • AnthonioBEL
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 125

                          #13
                          I find it makes sense (for me) not so much because of the final use (Listening vs viewing) but browsing...

                          For me it's the difference between having to go to one shop to buy/rent movies, then walk up the street for another shop to buy/borrow books, and then walk to yet another shop to buy a music CD versus walking into a superstore/library that has all three...

                          It's a matter of convenience. I like the fact that with iTunes, all my streaming media is in the one library with the one interface.

                          Don't get me wrong. If or when DLNA capability is improved, then that function could just as easily be performed by LMS.

                          Comment

                          • pippin
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 14809

                            #14
                            But do you find the Apple remote to be so much different than the SB Apps? Maybe you've been using the wrong ones
                            ---
                            learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
                            Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
                            at penguinlovesmusic.com
                            New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch

                            Comment

                            • AnthonioBEL
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2011
                              • 125

                              #15
                              Haha, no, not much different.

                              Again, it's whether you'd have to use two different remote apps to access different types of media vs just the one accessing all your media.

                              Comment

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