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View Full Version : Audiosafe - cloud backup (free to upload, pay to restore)



mr-b
2012-02-28, 05:28
This looks like a very interesting new concept from Spoon (the dbPoweramp guy). The beta is now open to anyone. Has anyone tried it (or the competition) yet?

The most obvious compelling aspect is that it is free to upload any size music library, you just pay to restore. "We will launch at $5 per 100GB to restore, so is $50 to restore 1TB."

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?24268-Welcome-to-AudioSafe

I'd imagine that there is only so much music content possible (or rather the total size isn't increasing by a very large amount on an ongoing basis) and that current storage technologies' data de-duplication features would minimise the storage required as the subscriber numbers grow.

pippin
2012-02-28, 05:57
Wow, cool idea. First thought was: ambitious business case, what do you do if everybody uploads all that stuff and nobody ever restores but then you are right, finding dupes might actually make that level out at a certain point, especially if you also use dbpoweramp to do an exact rip and to get tags which would make sure the files are similar as often as possible.

OTOH it's a bet on the the number of actual losses, so it's a kind of reverse insurance and given how well insurance companies live from the fact that their customers tend to over-estimate risk this might still be a bit of a challenge.

DaveWr
2012-02-28, 08:42
In this type of business, there is NO guarantee the backup or the business is there when you want it. You have not paid for a service, therefore your rights are somewhat limited. Alternative backup still required.

garym
2012-02-28, 09:54
In this type of business, there is NO guarantee the backup or the business is there when you want it. You have not paid for a service, therefore your rights are somewhat limited. Alternative backup still required.

I agree. I may eventually use AudioSafe (as Spoon also hints that there will be much more benefit from audiosafe with regard to confirming perfect rips on already ripped music, etc.). But even with AudioSafe, I'd want other backups as well. As I've pointed out many times, I don't feel safe with backups unless I have multiple backups stored in different cities! My friends sometimes get tired of hearing me point out that they are asking for trouble with their one and only backup drive sitting right next to the computer they are backing up (and plugged into the computer and power). They are one lightning strike, fire, theft, etc. away from losing their data....

DaveWr
2012-02-28, 10:03
I also don't like the concept he has of backups - he appears to be processing backups, tag correcting etc. Well he doesn't own the data, and shouldn't be processing it. Backup is backup, processing and changing is something else.

As you can see, not keen.

garym
2012-02-28, 10:08
I also don't like the concept he has of backups - he appears to be processing backups, tag correcting etc. Well he doesn't own the data, and shouldn't be processing it. Backup is backup, processing and changing is something else.

As you can see, not keen.

ummmm, not sure about this. In response to someone, he noted that if there was a backup restore, the person would get back the original file with tags, etc. etc. identical to what was backed up...no changes whatsoever (so if metadata was wrong, it would still be wrong).

I think (and don't know certainly) that the idea is to probably READ the backed up files and where possible provide matches (e.g., 9000 rips of the Beatles White Album tracks show exactly the same audio content). In my own mind, this is not much different than his VERY USEFUL "accuraterip" database, which allows users of dbpa, EAC, even foobar2000, to compare their CD rips to many other users' rips to confirm that the audio content is identical even though ripped from a different physical CD, on a different computer, with a different drive. This in my mind is brilliant (and I'm a paid user of dbpa).

DaveWr
2012-02-28, 10:28
Garym

It seems you are right, they will read the files, to use data for auto correcting systems,databases etc. They also say no third party data releases.

Their Ts&Cs still say their liability is limited to payments. So no liability for storage. Seems a good concept, but I like my backup with a little more ( well some) warranty. But it could be a good extra option at no cost.

erland
2012-02-28, 10:34
In this type of business, there is NO guarantee the backup or the business is there when you want it. You have not paid for a service, therefore your rights are somewhat limited. Alternative backup still required.

This it true for all online backup solutions, I've used another provider which I payed a yearly fee for. Suddenly I realized that the system wasn't taking backups anymore and after discussions back and forth with their support organization during a month or two they asked if they could delete my account and let me upload the data again. It wasn't a big issue since I had all data locally, but it made me realize that you can't really trust online backup solutions 100%.

I think all online backup solutions should be considered an extra safety, your primary backup should be something you have full control of yourself.

Still, I agree with pippin, it is kind of an interesting idea and it's probably possible to do some interesting processing if you have access to all these music files. The key for this to be a business success must be to be able to take advantage of having access to a lot of music files because the number of people that will restore backups are probably going to be too few to cover the costs.

garym
2012-02-28, 10:37
Garym

It seems you are right, they will read the files, to use data for auto correcting systems,databases etc. They also say no third party data releases.

Their Ts&Cs still say their liability is limited to payments. So no liability for storage. Seems a good concept, but I like my backup with a little more ( well some) warranty. But it could be a good extra option at no cost.

I'm with you on the warranty aspect, but this doesn't really bother me with regard to AudioSafe (I view it as simply *another* offsite backup combined with my several offsite backup drives). But for me there is no warranty other than lots of multiple backups. Even a monetary reimbursement from a company won't make up for losing my data (when some of that data can't be replaced at any cost).

norderney
2012-03-02, 18:49
I have just downloaded and registered for this service and have started the initial backup. As my music database is 757gb in size it is going to take quite a long time to complete backup process.
I wonder how long a full restore would take?

Anybody else trying this service out?

garym
2012-03-03, 06:35
I have just downloaded and registered for this service and have started the initial backup. As my music database is 757gb in size it is going to take quite a long time to complete backup process.
I wonder how long a full restore would take?

Anybody else trying this service out?

don't know. post on the dbpa forums and maybe spoon has an estimate. I'd say it will take the same amount of time to restore as to backup (i.e., a long time!). But if you are in a restore situation I assume you'll be very happy to have the option. Particularly, because this likely means you lost your local data and you lost your local backup as well. That is, you wouldn't have AudioSafe as your ONLY backup would you?

cunobelinus
2012-03-03, 07:02
On 3 Mar 2012, at 13:35, garym wrote:

>
> norderney;693707 Wrote:
>> I have just downloaded and registered for this service and have started
>> the initial backup. As my music database is 757gb in size it is going
>> to take quite a long time to complete backup process.
>> I wonder how long a full restore would take?
>>
>> Anybody else trying this service out?
>
> don't know. post on the dbpa forums and maybe spoon has an estimate.
> I'd say it will take the same amount of time to restore as to backup
> (i.e., a long time!).


Surely should be less. Upload times usually much slower than download. Well, they are here.

garym
2012-03-03, 07:22
On 3 Mar 2012, at 13:35, garym wrote:

>
> norderney;693707 Wrote:
>> I have just downloaded and registered for this service and have started
>> the initial backup. As my music database is 757gb in size it is going
>> to take quite a long time to complete backup process.
>> I wonder how long a full restore would take?
>>
>> Anybody else trying this service out?
>
> don't know. post on the dbpa forums and maybe spoon has an estimate.
> I'd say it will take the same amount of time to restore as to backup
> (i.e., a long time!).


Surely should be less. Upload times usually much slower than download. Well, they are here.

oops, you're right. I forgot that most folks have an internet service that has much faster download speed vs upload speed. So I guess the key would be if there was something making it slower at the AudioSafe end....

JJZolx
2012-04-06, 16:06
I just tried this out today. Completely, totally, absolutely useless.

It's so slow that it would take years (literally) to upload a large FLAC library.

mr-b
2012-04-07, 01:29
I just tried this out today. Completely, totally, absolutely useless.

It's so slow that it would take years (literally) to upload a large FLAC library.
If "large" means more than 700GB then there's a local HD transfer service. Just shipped mine off. :)

"Offer: Fast load your collection: if you have more than 700GB of content and are either in the EU, or USA, we will ship a USB HDD(s) to you. Load your content to USB HDD, we collect and your content will be fast loaded onto our servers. Simply email: Your Name + Address and content total size to: betatest@audiosafe.com"

verypsb
2012-04-07, 03:48
I just tried this out today. Completely, totally, absolutely useless.

It's so slow that it would take years (literally) to upload a large FLAC library.

You think any other online backup solution will be faster?

DaveWr
2012-04-07, 11:26
You think any other online backup solution will be faster?

You think it's a backup solution it isn't. No warranty on your data being available. Don't see any point in a maybe service?

Dave

JJZolx
2012-04-07, 11:53
You think any other online backup solution will be faster?

Yes.

I read that uploads max out at 600 kbps, but I didn't see even half of that. I would expect a real online backup service to provide much faster speeds.

sebp
2012-04-08, 15:15
Why wouldn't community members do the job themselves?

I have a server behind a 100/50 Mbps broadband connection that is quite always on, with plenty free RAID-1 secured disk space available, and I'm looking for ~700GB disk space somewhere to make off-site backups.
If somebody here is also having a good broadband connection and is wishing to let me use that much disk space on his/her server, I'll let him/her use as much on mine (I can provide up to 2TB).
The only warranty I offer is that, given both reside on the same server, I'd take as much care of his/her data as I do for mine. ;-)

FWIW, I'm planning to use duplicity (http://duplicity.nongnu.org/) for the duty (for both privacy concerns and efficiency).

Jeff Flowerday
2012-04-08, 16:08
Why wouldn't community members do the job themselves?

I have a server behind a 100/50 Mbps broadband connection that is quite always on, with plenty free RAID-1 secured disk space available, and I'm looking for ~700GB disk space somewhere to make off-site backups.
If somebody here is also having a good broadband connection and is wishing to let me use that much disk space on his/her server, I'll let him/her use as much on mine (I can provide up to 2TB).
The only warranty I offer is that, given both reside on the same server, I'd take as much care of his/her data as I do for mine. ;-)

FWIW, I'm planning to use duplicity (http://duplicity.nongnu.org/) for the duty (for both privacy concerns and efficiency).

www.crashplan.com

Cloud plus the ability to backup to friends for extra redundancy.

4 years unlimited data cloud for $150. Dirt cheap. Or backup to a network of friends for free.

verypsb
2012-04-09, 00:02
Yes.

I read that uploads max out at 600 kbps, but I didn't see even half of that. I would expect a real online backup service to provide much faster speeds.

I think you're mixing up speeds... It maxes out at 600 kB/s, not at 600 kb/s. 600 kB/s would be 4800 kb/s. How fast is the average upload of the average user? Less than 1024 kb/s (128 kB/s), the theoretical maximum of an adsl line?
Mine maxes out at my maximum upload speed, around 3072 kb/s (384 kB/s)

I think it will take about 10 weeks to upload my 1.34 TB (1372.16 GB) .flac collection.

verypsb
2012-04-09, 00:36
You think it's a backup solution it isn't. No warranty on your data being available. Don't see any point in a maybe service?

Dave

I view any online backup solution as a "maybe" service. (as stated before in this thread by Erland http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93865-Audiosafe-cloud-backup-(free-to-upload-pay-to-restore)&p=693060&viewfull=1#post693060 ).

mr-b
2012-04-09, 00:57
*Every* backup sol'n (whether it be cloud-based or on-premise kit) is a "maybe" service, even if covered by contracts with service level agreements, data loss penalty clauses etc. etc.
Ppl in the storage industry don't tend to sleep safe unless protected data is stored in at least 3 different places.

mdconnelly
2012-04-10, 16:58
www.crashplan.com

Cloud plus the ability to backup to friends for extra redundancy.

4 years unlimited data cloud for $150. Dirt cheap. Or backup to a network of friends for free.

+1 on Crashplan.

All cloud based backups are only going to be as fast as the bandwidth you have and they provide. I've got a fairly slow DSL link with 6MBs down and .6 up. It took about 4 months for me to fully backup 700+g of flac music and pictures. But, if you've got a large library of stuff to backup, you need a service that isn't going to cost you big. Crashplan is unlimited with a great pricetag - particularly if you go multi-year with the family plan which supports up to 10 computers.