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JENCDK
2012-02-27, 06:06
Hi all

I have an odd problem or is overlooking something, when setting tags on my music.

According to the "Various Artists" logic described here: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/VariousArtistsLogic
it goes that: "If a file has explicit 'ALBUMARTIST' tags the server recognizes, it will NEVER be classified as a comp/VA album"

In more occasions I have albums where I use the ALBUMARTIST tag to avoid the Various Artists functionality to come in use. As i do not want this.
In the enclosed screenshot, the bottom one, is an example where it works like a charm and acts like it should and does not make use of the squeezebox Various Artists functionality.

The album has more different artists. But one Album name. And by defining one Album Artists name, it does not become a Various Artists, and I'm happy :-)

But then I have another example. Again with more different Artists, and again one Album name. And one Album Artists name. But this errornously becomes and Various Artists listing in My Music, e.g. under Artists. See enclosed example, the top one.

- Why does this happen. What I'm I overlooking?

It does comply to the "If a file has explicit 'ALBUMARTIST' tags the server recognizes, it will NEVER be classified as a comp/VA album" rule

... that is, unless the "...the server recognizes..." could be the cause? Does anyone know what is meant by this?

All my music does not have a COMP tag. Neither 0 nor 1. It is blank.

And before you suggest using COMP=0 I do not want to use this, as this will make all the individual artists of the album appear in the My Music > Artists list, which I don't want. I only want to have my "major" artists there.

Heeeelp please.

FYI: I'm in Denmark, and in the screenshots Titel = Title, Kunster=Artists, Album Kunster = Album Artists

Kind regards
Jens

garym
2012-02-27, 06:16
Does the album showing up as various artists have the COMPILATION field set to "1". Open files in mp3tag, right click, select extended tags, then look for compilation. If it has this field, simply delete the compilation field from the tags (you can do it right there in extended tags....highlight compilation, then hit the "X" to the right of the panel to delete that field.

JENCDK
2012-02-27, 06:25
Does the album showing up as various artists have the COMPILATION field set to "1". Open files in mp3tag, right click, select extended tags, then look for compilation. If it has this field, simply delete the compilation field from the tags (you can do it right there in extended tags....highlight compilation, then hit the "X" to the right of the panel to delete that field.

Hi

No, it does not. Neither one of the listings has COMPILATION=1. Also as I mention in my text.

And this makes it even more mysterious, and I can't find the reason myself for it being handled as Various Artists by Squeezebox.

garym
2012-02-27, 06:26
have you opened mysterious acting files in mp3tag and looked at extended tags? this sometimes shows odd things that you don't otherwise see....

garym
2012-02-27, 06:37
Hi

No, it does not. Neither one of the listings has COMPILATION=1. Also as I mention in my text.

And this makes it even more mysterious, and I can't find the reason myself for it being handled as Various Artists by Squeezebox.

that is, you say you have comp = blank. I'm saying that you should have COMPILATION tag as NOT THERE (if this field shows up in mp3tag extended tags, delete the field (don't just make it blank). This may not be the issue, but can't hurt....

JENCDK
2012-02-27, 06:40
Yes I have.

I enclose a picture of the extended tags for one of the files getting handled wrong in the Various Artists logic.

As you can see, there is no Compilation tag.

Furthermore I can add, that
- all the files/music in the folder has Album=Blandet Musik
- all the files/music in the folder has AlbumArtist=Diverse Kunstnere
- some files has ARTIST=[actual artists name] and others have Diverse Kunstnere as the enclosed. (Diverse Kunstnere = Various Artists in danish).

I have other folders where Album=[a given name other than Blandet Musik, e.g. This Is Soul] where it works just fine, and Squeezebox does not use it's build in various artists logic.
I have more of these, and AlbumArtists=Diverse Kunstnere is used across more folders. Until now without problems. Also some files as Diverse Kunstere as Artist, also until now without problems.

emalvick
2012-02-27, 10:45
Do you have any ARTISTSORT or related fields? I had something like what you had turn up once because one file had the ARTISTSORT set to Various Artists. It ended up moving all files files with that one artist into the Various Artists menu. It had nothing to do with the compilation tags (I don't use them either).

It only takes one file to have an ARTIST SORT tag to make all your music with that one ARTIST or one ALBUM show up under a different location.

This is where garym's suggestion becomes important. You have to investigate file by file to see if an extended tag is messed up beyond the compilation, artist, and album artist tag. You might also look now to see whether all your previous music is sorting correctly. One problem file can make previously ok files sort wrong. It can also help track down the potential source of the problem.

Last, I see in your example on the last one that you potentially have both ID3v1 and ID3v2 tags in your mp3 files. I suggest removing the ID3v1 tags unless you know they are needed. MP3tag is only going to show you the ID3v2 tags, so if a tag is wrong in the ID3v1 tags, you may not notice it.

garym
2012-02-27, 12:10
Do you have any ARTISTSORT or related fields? I had something like what you had turn up once because one file had the ARTISTSORT set to Various Artists. It ended up moving all files files with that one artist into the Various Artists menu. It had nothing to do with the compilation tags (I don't use them either).

It only takes one file to have an ARTIST SORT tag to make all your music with that one ARTIST or one ALBUM show up under a different location.

This is where garym's suggestion becomes important. You have to investigate file by file to see if an extended tag is messed up beyond the compilation, artist, and album artist tag. You might also look now to see whether all your previous music is sorting correctly. One problem file can make previously ok files sort wrong. It can also help track down the potential source of the problem.

Last, I see in your example on the last one that you potentially have both ID3v1 and ID3v2 tags in your mp3 files. I suggest removing the ID3v1 tags unless you know they are needed. MP3tag is only going to show you the ID3v2 tags, so if a tag is wrong in the ID3v1 tags, you may not notice it.

good point and to emphasize your point above, even if the artist has an artistsort tag IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TRACK IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ALBUM it will change the treatment of how things show up in the album you are looking at above that does NOT have an artistsort tag. This oddity has plagued SbS/LMS users for a long time I think....

So I'd look for any tracks from any albums related to the artist in question, pull these up in mp3tag, and look for things like artistsort, albumartistsort, etc.

MrSinatra
2012-02-27, 12:12
chances are this is a tagging or location issue.

first, are all the problem files in one folder location? i find with server that its best to put one album = one folder.

second, i agree about making sure all files are only using one tag type. for mp3, i only use id3v2.3

third, in server, have you drilled down to the song level info? look there, b/c u will see everything that server sees as tags. a stray weird sort tag or something like that could be the cause.

also, i assume the AA tag itself does not = "Various Artists" as that causes problems which need workarounds in default server.

i also assume u have server set to treat TPE2 as AA since this is how most all apps treat TPE2 (de facto standard, but out of spec)

fourth, are the tags in english or translated by the app?

what is meant by "recognizes" is that people can annotate AA tags in different ways. in english, for flac it could be "ALBUM ARTIST" or "ALBUMARTIST" etc...

in id3v2, it could be TPE2 or TXXX ALBUMARTIST or TXXX ALBUM ARTIST etc...

so it has to be a method server knows to interpret as AA.

JJZolx
2012-02-27, 13:01
What is your indication that this is being recognized as a compilation album? If you view the album in the web interface, does it show 'Compilation: Yes', as in the screenshot below? If not, then it's not considered a compilation.

emalvick
2012-02-27, 16:41
good point and to emphasize your point above, even if the artist has an artistsort tag IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TRACK IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ALBUM it will change the treatment of how things show up in the album you are looking at above that does NOT have an artistsort tag. This oddity has plagued SbS/LMS users for a long time I think....

So I'd look for any tracks from any albums related to the artist in question, pull these up in mp3tag, and look for things like artistsort, albumartistsort, etc.

This is a point, I wanted to make as my own experience was one odd track in some other album that led to my discovery of the error in another album.

I only suggest the current problem album for the user because if something all of a sudden has gone wrong, then it is likely that something changed in the newest set of tags. However, if the user is editing any other tags or even ripping albums that could be related (via a common SORT tag) then all bets can be off.

The suggestion by JJZolx can be very important, too. If the answer is that his compilation is showing a "Yes" then it is most likely due to the compilation tags or something related rather than a sort tag. If the answer is "No" then he definitely needs to look for other tags that can sneak in, including having ID3v1 tags.

T-bird
2012-02-28, 11:45
- some files has ARTIST=[actual artists name] and others have Diverse Kunstnere as the enclosed. (Diverse Kunstnere = Various Artists in danish).


If an album have tracks containing different artists, doesn't the server make this a compilation even if compilation tags is not set or missing?

garym
2012-02-28, 11:48
If an album have tracks containing different artists, doesn't the server make this a compilation even if compilation tags is not set or missing?

yes, if there is no album artist. haven't checked, but I assume this "guess as a compilation" would still show up as a "compilation = yes" in the LMS webGUI (related to the earlier pic posted).

JJZolx
2012-02-28, 11:51
yes, if there is no album artist. haven't checked, but I assume this "guess as a compilation" would still show up as a "compilation = yes" in the LMS webGUI (related to the earlier pic posted).

Correct.

MrSinatra
2012-02-29, 14:01
it would be nice if the OP would respond, but one of the things thrwoing me here on the diagnosis is the different language. like, is his OS in Danish? his server? does that impact bug 9523?

also, even if he isn't using an AA tag, if he sets all his artists tags to be in conflict with the VA string, he'll still suffer from bug 9523.

high time to get bug 15604 done, as it has at least 39 votes now, and will solve 9523.

pski
2012-02-29, 17:03
Hi all

I have an odd problem or is overlooking something, when setting tags on my music.

According to the "Various Artists" logic described here: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/VariousArtistsLogic
it goes that: "If a file has explicit 'ALBUMARTIST' tags the server recognizes, it will NEVER be classified as a comp/VA album"

In more occasions I have albums where I use the ALBUMARTIST tag to avoid the Various Artists functionality to come in use. As i do not want this.
In the enclosed screenshot, the bottom one, is an example where it works like a charm and acts like it should and does not make use of the squeezebox Various Artists functionality.

The album has more different artists. But one Album name. And by defining one Album Artists name, it does not become a Various Artists, and I'm happy :-)

But then I have another example. Again with more different Artists, and again one Album name. And one Album Artists name. But this errornously becomes and Various Artists listing in My Music, e.g. under Artists. See enclosed example, the top one.

- Why does this happen. What I'm I overlooking?

It does comply to the "If a file has explicit 'ALBUMARTIST' tags the server recognizes, it will NEVER be classified as a comp/VA album" rule

... that is, unless the "...the server recognizes..." could be the cause? Does anyone know what is meant by this?

All my music does not have a COMP tag. Neither 0 nor 1. It is blank.

And before you suggest using COMP=0 I do not want to use this, as this will make all the individual artists of the album appear in the My Music > Artists list, which I don't want. I only want to have my "major" artists there.

Heeeelp please.

FYI: I'm in Denmark, and in the screenshots Titel = Title, Kunster=Artists, Album Kunster = Album Artists

Kind regards
Jens

This is clearly a case of the tag comparison variables in the current language not agreeing with the value of the tracks' tags. Based-on the screen image, this can only be a recognition problem because the data is apparent.

P

<of course, the JPark Error is : "stop looking when you think you've found everything">

Mnyb
2012-02-29, 21:53
What is the setting for

"When compilation albums are grouped together, they appear under "Various Artists" by default. You can change that name below."

JENCDK
2012-03-01, 06:21
...

It only takes one file to have an ARTIST SORT tag to make all your music with that one ARTIST or one ALBUM show up under a different location.

...

[QUOTE=garym;692891]good point and to emphasize your point above, even if the artist has an artistsort tag IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TRACK IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ALBUM it will change the treatment of how things show up in the album you are looking at above that does NOT have an artistsort tag... QUOTE]


Ahh, good point. Now I get the "1-file/every file"-importance.
I'll go through all my files, 1 by 1, too see if I can find a culprit.

I'll revert with an update, for future readers of the thread who may have same issues.

JENCDK
2012-03-01, 06:30
chances are this is a tagging or location issue.

first, are all the problem files in one folder location? i find with server that its best to put one album = one folder.

second, i agree about making sure all files are only using one tag type. for mp3, i only use id3v2.3

third, in server, have you drilled down to the song level info? look there, b/c u will see everything that server sees as tags. a stray weird sort tag or something like that could be the cause.

also, i assume the AA tag itself does not = "Various Artists" as that causes problems which need workarounds in default server.

i also assume u have server set to treat TPE2 as AA since this is how most all apps treat TPE2 (de facto standard, but out of spec)

fourth, are the tags in english or translated by the app?

what is meant by "recognizes" is that people can annotate AA tags in different ways. in english, for flac it could be "ALBUM ARTIST" or "ALBUMARTIST" etc...

in id3v2, it could be TPE2 or TXXX ALBUMARTIST or TXXX ALBUM ARTIST etc...

so it has to be a method server knows to interpret as AA.

1) Yes, all are in 1 and same folder

2) I'll do that. See later question of how to remove tags rather than setting them to 0/nothing

3)I have drilled down in server for some files, but not all. As mentioned I'll go through all. The album is listet (errousnously) as a compilation in SB server. I haven't seen any unexpected "runaway-tags".

4) The tags are in english. They are translated in user interface in app(s)

JENCDK
2012-03-01, 06:30
What is your indication that this is being recognized as a compilation album? If you view the album in the web interface, does it show 'Compilation: Yes', as in the screenshot below? If not, then it's not considered a compilation.

Yes. It shows "Compilation: Yes".

JENCDK
2012-03-01, 06:33
If an album have tracks containing different artists, doesn't the server make this a compilation even if compilation tags is not set or missing?

Hi

No. If you to an album where there are several different Artist, adds one unique AlbumArtist for the whole album, then the album should not be handled as a compilation.

See http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/VariousArtistsLogic

JENCDK
2012-03-01, 06:50
it would be nice if the OP would respond, but one of the things thrwoing me here on the diagnosis is the different language. like, is his OS in Danish? his server? does that impact bug 9523?

also, even if he isn't using an AA tag, if he sets all his artists tags to be in conflict with the VA string, he'll still suffer from bug 9523.

high time to get bug 15604 done, as it has at least 39 votes now, and will solve 9523.

Hi. First sorry for the late response - you're rigth I should have replied earlier but was stuck in bed ill for some days.

MP3Tag that I have shown some screenshots from is in danish. I run SB Server on a Synology DS110j NAS. When I access it through my PC via Web, it is in Danish. But I don't think this is the problem, as a) having foreign translations aside and tags aside is quite a wellknown discipline for the vendors, and b) it works like it should in many other folders.
I will after replying investigate if it should be an odd tag in 1-file-only.

"also, even if he isn't using an AA tag" -> I do use AA tag.

"if he sets all his artists tags to be in conflict with the VA string" -> Is VA String Various Artist string? I'm not sure what you mean here, but I don't handle (and don't want to...) VA specificly. I would like SB server to handle that, only if it could handle is correctly as supposed to...

"he'll still suffer from bug 9523" -> what is bug 9523?

JENCDK
2012-03-01, 06:53
What is the setting for

"When compilation albums are grouped together, they appear under "Various Artists" by default. You can change that name below."

This is blank.

I would like to keep it blank, as the software then handles it. When I browse my SB server on NAS via web, it is in danish and hence "Diversen Kunstnere".
Whereas my controller is (currently) with english language and shows it as "Various Artist".

If a name is not specified, it is handled via "language defaults". I like that and will keep that, and do not expect that to be of any reason.

JENCDK
2012-03-01, 07:00
And now another ask for help.

Some of you proposed I should only have and ID3v2 (and no ID3v1) as you see I have both.
Actually, in the folder with the errounous VA-handlingn there is only ID3v2.3 and WMA.

But I do have ID3v1 in other folders. So

- how do I upgrade the easiest from ID3v1 to ID3v2, just retaining existing tags without adding og changing any tags?

And in general, if I find an odd tag in one single file to be the culprit,

- how do I remove that tag. Meaning, not setting it to zero, or blank, but fully remove that tag as a registration?

garym
2012-03-01, 07:04
And now another ask for help.

Some of you proposed I should only have and ID3v2 (and no ID3v1) as you see I have both.
Actually, in the folder with the errounous VA-handlingn there is only ID3v2.3 and WMA.

But I do have ID3v1 in other folders. So

- how do I upgrade the easiest from ID3v1 to ID3v2, just retaining existing tags without adding og changing any tags?

And in general, if I find an odd tag in one single file to be the culprit,

- how do I remove that tag. Meaning, not setting it to zero, or blank, but fully remove that tag as a registration?

mp3tag is the perfect program for this. In fact, see this recent thread:
http://forums.mp3tag.de/index.php?showtopic=15285&hl=

MrSinatra
2012-03-02, 07:11
hi OP,

i'm quite ill as well, so thats ok. :)

bug 9523 is a very stupid string conflict built into server. basically, server wants to make "Various Artists" a "special" category, and so if you happen to have any tracks, as MANY MANY people do, that don't have any comp tags, but have either AA values or A values of "Various Artists" then server will hide the music from you. see:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9523

the best fix is this bug:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604

please vote for both.

the easy workaround is to either add explicit Comp=1 tags, or change the setting in server to the special category name for VA, to something not in conflict with any of your tag strings.

having said that, it sounds like your problem is that things are getting classified as comps that shouldn't be, correct? if you do have AA tags and you don't have explicit comp=1 tags, then i don't know how or why server would think something is a comp.

it probably wouldn't hurt for you to clear your server cache and do a full clear and rescan.

MrSinatra
2012-03-02, 07:22
And now another ask for help.

Some of you proposed I should only have and ID3v2 (and no ID3v1) as you see I have both.
Actually, in the folder with the errounous VA-handlingn there is only ID3v2.3 and WMA.


i think this is the answer. mp3tag will only show you one tag layer at a time. it probably is showing you the id3 layer. server meanwhile will read all layers and merge them, so i think server is using the wma comp tag, ergo why server is calling it a comp.

i only use flac and mp3. so i use only vorbis for flac, and only id3v2.3 for mp3.

regardless of what format you use, i find its best to only have one type of tag in it.


But I do have ID3v1 in other folders. So

- how do I upgrade the easiest from ID3v1 to ID3v2, just retaining existing tags without adding og changing any tags?

And in general, if I find an odd tag in one single file to be the culprit,

- how do I remove that tag. Meaning, not setting it to zero, or blank, but fully remove that tag as a registration?

as stated, use mp3tag. u just do some simple config, where it removes all but v2.3 and then do a tag cut and tag paste. be careful tho, experiment first! mp3tag will also fully remove frames u don't want.

JENCDK
2012-03-07, 07:59
Hi again

I have now stripped all extra tags, and the problem remains the same. A folder where each and every file has the same Album Artist and Album tag, is handled as a compilation, which it should not.

It does not seem to be my WMA files that makes this happen, as if I only have these files in the folder, everything goes as expected, and the folder is correctly not handled as a compilation.

If I add MP3 files, some of them handles correctly. Whereas others does not handle correctly and results in the entire folder to be handled wrongly as a compilation. I have tried one-by-one to discover some that handles correctly and some wrong.

I cannot see any differences in files or in tags in files, for the ones handles correctly and the ones handled wrongly.

I use MP3Tag to view tags. I don't see a TPE2 tag, and can see that this is referenced more places for Squeezebox Server.

- Which other program than MP3Tag could I use to see TPE2 tags, and other relevant tags, to see if I can find the wrong info this way?

MrSinatra
2012-03-07, 10:44
Hi again

I have now stripped all extra tags, and the problem remains the same. A folder where each and every file has the same Album Artist and Album tag, is handled as a compilation, which it should not.

ok, we need you to start getting specific here.

how many albums are being called comps by server that are not comps in reality? what are they called/named? what format are they in?

do you have one album per folder?


It does not seem to be my WMA files that makes this happen, as if I only have these files in the folder, everything goes as expected, and the folder is correctly not handled as a compilation.

If I add MP3 files, some of them handles correctly. Whereas others does not handle correctly and results in the entire folder to be handled wrongly as a compilation. I have tried one-by-one to discover some that handles correctly and some wrong.

I cannot see any differences in files or in tags in files, for the ones handles correctly and the ones handled wrongly.

personally, i don't mix formats. so you are saying it is ONLY mp3 files that are getting classified wrong? do they have id3 and wma tags in them, or just wma? are they in folders with wma files?


I use MP3Tag to view tags. I don't see a TPE2 tag, and can see that this is referenced more places for Squeezebox Server.

- Which other program than MP3Tag could I use to see TPE2 tags, and other relevant tags, to see if I can find the wrong info this way?

mp3tag calls TPE2 "album artist" it doesn't show frame names.

have you drilled down to the song info level in server and looked at the raw tags server finds?

JENCDK
2012-03-08, 03:46
ok, we need you to start getting specific here.

how many albums are being called comps by server that are not comps in reality? what are they called/named? what format are they in?

do you have one album per folder?



personally, i don't mix formats. so you are saying it is ONLY mp3 files that are getting classified wrong? do they have id3 and wma tags in them, or just wma? are they in folders with wma files?



mp3tag calls TPE2 "album artist" it doesn't show frame names.

have you drilled down to the song info level in server and looked at the raw tags server finds?

-> "how many albums are being called comps by server that are not comps in reality?"
I have one album, in one folder, that is handled wrong. That is, ending up being handled with the Various Artists functionality by SB-server.
I have 7 other albums that is handled correctly.
All 8 albums (7 correct and the 1 wrong) are in each own folder (8 of them) and all 8 have Album Artist tag set to the same name and Album tag to the same name.

-> what are they called/named?
The 7 are e.g. "Careless Whisper disc 1", "Careless Whisper disc 2", "Burning Love", etc. The one handles wrong is "Diverse Musik" and for that I have also tried "Blandet musik" (the last two are danish language :-) All the mentioned for Album tag. For the Album Artist tag all 8 has "Diverse Kunstnere".

-> what format are they in?
The 7 is in WMA, the 8th is a combination of MP3 and WMA.
BUT!!! i have tried isolating the folder to be ONLY wma - where it handles correctly. Only MP3 where is handles wrong. And a combination of WMA and MP3 where it handles correctly with some of the MP3's and handles wrong if it is combined with others of the MP3. I have tried file-by-file to identify the files that results in errournous handling.
Therefore my question from yesterday - how to see full tags, e.g TPE2
Those MP3's that results in the errournous handling must have some odd attribute somewhere, i guess. I just can't put my finger to it from MP3Tag-software.

-> "personally, i don't mix formats. so you are saying it is ONLY mp3 files that are getting classified wrong? do they have id3 and wma tags in them, or just wma? are they in folders with wma files? "
As mentioned. I have tried isolating formats and not mixing them. The WMA's goes fine. The MP3 (also when isolated to MP3's) goes wrong.
The MP3's does not have WMA tags in them.

-> "mp3tag calls TPE2 "album artist" it doesn't show frame names."
So I don't risk there is a confused/wrong TPE2 tag, when I verify "Album Artist" tag to be correct in MP3Tag?
What do you mean by "it doesn't show frame names".

- "have you drilled down to the song info level in server and looked at the raw tags server finds?"
Yes. And it didn't ring any bells. I'm not at my computer with the music right now, but will try this once again.
I run my SB server from my Synology Nas, via SB-software downloaded from synology.com. This shouldn't be an issue, should it?

Aguida
2012-03-09, 01:23
Velkommen Jens (og tilbage til engelsk),

I am probably stating the obvious, but you are aware that MP3 tags comes in various versions (V1, V2, V2.x), and those can be present at the same time. Back in the days when I had MP3s I have seen weird results if for instance V1 and V2.3 were present at the same time.

I am not sure of MP3tag logic when multiple versions are present, what actually shows.

So what i did it was to go into Mp3tag->Tools->Options->Tags->MPeg and set the options as follows:
- Read (only ID3v2 checked)
- Write (only ID3v2 checked, and ID3v2.3 ISO-8859-1)
- Remove (ID3V1 and APE checked)

Than I selected all my MP3s, right cicked on them and chosen "Remove Tag". This will remove all ID3v1 tags. If you add in your Mp3tag view the tag column it should show only ID3v2.3 for all your MP3 files.

Finally, remember to do a complete delete and rescan of your library (not just a search for new and changed files).

Anothe roption is also to open those files that are teasing you with something else (I use foobar2000 to inspect tags and properties of files if I have troubles), or you could consider exporting the tags for the affected files (under the file menu in mp3tag), delete completely all the tags form those files and create them again manually.

I hope the above could be of any help to you and please don't read the rest of this post before you tried the above :-)

To all the other "seniors" in this thread I am really confused by this, so perhaps you can help me understand what's going on.

Jens wrote:
Hi

No. If you to an album where there are several different Artist, adds one unique AlbumArtist for the whole album, then the album should not be handled as a compilation.

See http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/VariousArtistsLogic

Actually this logic stopped working back in 2006. Since than people have been battling to have this behaviour restored (see bugs 4341, 4754). As far as I know this has not been fixed and VA albums are still handled as compilations even if a Albumartist tag is present. So I am a little in doubt Jens what exactly do you mean when you say that 7 of the 8 albums are not handled as compilation. What behaviour of LMS are you looking at that makes you say that? And just to make sure, what version of LMS is running on your server?

garym
2012-03-09, 05:24
Jens wrote:

Actually this logic stopped working back in 2006. Since than people have been battling to have this behaviour restored (see bugs 4341, 4754). As far as I know this has not been fixed and VA albums are still handled as compilations even if a Albumartist tag is present. So I am a little in doubt Jens what exactly do you mean when you say that 7 of the 8 albums are not handled as compilation. What behaviour of LMS are you looking at that makes you say that? And just to make sure, what version of LMS is running on your server?

I'm confused with your comment. This logic does work. I'm using 7.7.1 and if I have an album with at least one different artist on a track, it WILL be treated as a compilation if I do NOT use Album Artist. If I use Album Artist for such album (and do NOT set COMPILATION flag to 1), then such album does NOT show up as a compilation.

Aguida
2012-03-09, 08:39
I'm confused with your comment. This logic does work. I'm using 7.7.1 and if I have an album with at least one different artist on a track, it WILL be treated as a compilation if I do NOT use Album Artist. If I use Album Artist for such album (and do NOT set COMPILATION flag to 1), then such album does NOT show up as a compilation.

OK I get it, by being treated as compilation I guess you and Jens mean whether it show us up under Artists->"Various Artists", right?

That would make sense and is not what is the problem with the bugs I mentioned. Thanks, i'll drop the question then, as I don't want to hi-jack Jens' thread with the other issues connected with the mentioned bugs.

garym
2012-03-09, 09:09
Yes. That's what I mean

MrSinatra
2012-03-09, 10:13
-> "how many albums are being called comps by server that are not comps in reality?"
I have one album, in one folder, that is handled wrong. That is, ending up being handled with the Various Artists functionality by SB-server.
I have 7 other albums that is handled correctly.
All 8 albums (7 correct and the 1 wrong) are in each own folder (8 of them) and all 8 have Album Artist tag set to the same name and Album tag to the same name.

ok, so only one album is getting improperly handled. thats not so bad.

lets be clear though...

the one album that is improperly handled, HOW SO? meaning, is it getting called a comp and in reality it is not a comp? or what?


-> what are they called/named?
The 7 are e.g. "Careless Whisper disc 1", "Careless Whisper disc 2", "Burning Love", etc. The one handles wrong is "Diverse Musik" and for that I have also tried "Blandet musik" (the last two are danish language :-) All the mentioned for Album tag. For the Album Artist tag all 8 has "Diverse Kunstnere".

again, the language thing throws me.

here's what i want you to do.

for the album that is categorized incorrectly, change the album tag to "XYZ" and the AA tag to "ABC" (both for all tracks) and make all the artist tags represent the actual artist of the song per track.

then do a full clear and rescan, and let us know where the album ends up.

it SHOULD end up under "ABC" and NOT in the various artists category. IF it does end up in the VA category, it means at least one of the tracks must have a comp=1 tag on it.

but lets do that and see what happens.


-> what format are they in?
The 7 is in WMA, the 8th is a combination of MP3 and WMA.

thats a red flag to me right there. why mix formats on a single album? that kind of thing leads to issues like this.


BUT!!! i have tried isolating the folder to be ONLY wma - where it handles correctly. Only MP3 where is handles wrong. And a combination of WMA and MP3 where it handles correctly with some of the MP3's and handles wrong if it is combined with others of the MP3. I have tried file-by-file to identify the files that results in errournous handling.
Therefore my question from yesterday - how to see full tags, e.g TPE2
Those MP3's that results in the errournous handling must have some odd attribute somewhere, i guess. I just can't put my finger to it from MP3Tag-software.

we're definitely getting closer, and i do think that at times, one track with a stray tag can affect a whole album.

the first thing i would do is break the album into two parts, a WMA part and a mp3 part, and create a folder for each.

then i would scan and see which part works and which doesn't.

if WMA works, then the problem is a stray tag somewhere in the mp3s.

you should drill down to the song info level in server for EACH mp3 at that point and examine the tags. whatever is happening can only happen if server can see it.

also, MAKE SURE you have ONLY ONE tag type. i suggest id3v2.3


-> "personally, i don't mix formats. so you are saying it is ONLY mp3 files that are getting classified wrong? do they have id3 and wma tags in them, or just wma? are they in folders with wma files? "
As mentioned. I have tried isolating formats and not mixing them. The WMA's goes fine. The MP3 (also when isolated to MP3's) goes wrong.
The MP3's does not have WMA tags in them.

you're getting closer.


-> "mp3tag calls TPE2 "album artist" it doesn't show frame names."
So I don't risk there is a confused/wrong TPE2 tag, when I verify "Album Artist" tag to be correct in MP3Tag?
What do you mean by "it doesn't show frame names".

"TPE2" = a frame name. it doesn't show you "TPE1" either, just "Artist"

thats how mp3tag works. its not showing you frame names, but rather the name the frame represents.


- "have you drilled down to the song info level in server and looked at the raw tags server finds?"
Yes. And it didn't ring any bells. I'm not at my computer with the music right now, but will try this once again.
I run my SB server from my Synology Nas, via SB-software downloaded from synology.com. This shouldn't be an issue, should it?

prob not. what ver server are you running?

u will need to drill down to EACH and ALL problem mp3s to look for stray tags, and make sure you only have one tag type first.

try using this formula in mp3tag for tag types:

%_tag_read%[ (%_tag%)]

emalvick
2012-03-09, 11:39
To piggy back onto Mr. Sinatra's suggestions,

I'd go as far as taking the mp3 only folder (assuming the problem is with the mp3's) and remove all but one file... Put the other files somewhere outside the LMS watched folders.

You could then go one by one with each file and probably narrow down to a specific file. I would do it for all the files, too. You could have more than one file giving you problems.


Last, you should clarify a bit exactly how you know files are being listed as compilations. Not being familiar with the Danish version of the software, are compilations grouped under "Various Artists" or is it actually a Danish translation of Various Artists?

In other words, how is your Album Artist tag different from the compilation heading?

I only ask because I know that as far as the English versions of the software go, if we have AA = Various Artists while compilations are set as Various Artists, albums with that AA won't show up (one of the earlier mentioned bugs). We either have to 1) explicitly add a compilation tag 2) rename the compilation identifier or 3) rename our AA to work around that bug.

garym
2012-03-09, 11:46
I only ask because I know that as far as the English versions of the software go, if we have AA = Various Artists while compilations are set as Various Artists, albums with that AA won't show up (one of the earlier mentioned bugs). We either have to 1) explicitly add a compilation tag 2) rename the compilation identifier or 3) rename our AA to work around that bug.

for example, in LMS settings, I've set my compilations to be named "Compilations" rather than Various Artists.

MrSinatra
2012-03-09, 23:18
for example, in LMS settings, I've set my compilations to be named "Compilations" rather than Various Artists.

right... whats important is that whatever the value is, the actual string you use, it has to be something that is NOT in any of your A or AA tags. the point is to avoid ANY possible string conflict.

Philip Meyer
2012-03-11, 07:54
>But then I have another example. Again with more different Artists, and
>again one Album name. And one Album Artists name. But this errornously
>becomes and Various Artists listing in My Music, e.g. under Artists.
>See enclosed example BecomesVariousArtists
>
>- Why does this happen. What I'm I overlooking?
>
Sounds like it's not pickup up your Album Artist tag. What type of files are you using?

Alternatively, could it be that you initially scanned this album into SBS/LMS without an album artist tag (or with a compilation tag), and you have now corrected the tags and rescanned, but it's not removing the Compilation flag. This used to be a bug in SBS, and probably hasn't been fixed in LMS.

If so, you might find that if you do a complete clean and rescan, the problem will go away.

Whilst you are trying to work out what the problem is, you might like to point your music folder at folder containing just the album that is not working, such that doing a full rescan doesn't take long, and then when the issue is fixed, set the music folder back to point at yuor whole library and then rescan.

Phil

JENCDK
2012-03-11, 16:47
Hi all

Thanx for all your fine input. I'll summarize my answers to the questions raised in the previous mails here.

I will be repeating my self a bit, as I can see that some of the questions and proposals you raise are for things that I have already mentioned. I think it's actually best if I do a short summerization of my problem.

My problem: If an album of various artists in one folder, has an unique album artist for all files in the folder, together with the same Album Name, the album (folder) should NOT be handled with the LMS various Artists functionality. That is, that LMS places that album under a "Various Artists" artist, in top of the Artists list. Instead that album (with unique Album Artist and Album name) should not be handled with the "Various Artists" functionality.

See http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/VariousArtistsLogic

For me, this album is errounously handled by the LMS Various Artists grouping, and I do not want this to be the case (and it is an error it happens).
I have this album in one folder that gives the errounous handling, whereas I have 7 other albums in own folders that does not give the errounous handling.

For you qustions and proposals:

> Finally, remember to do a complete delete and rescan of your
> library (not just a search for new and changed files).

I alway do a full delete and rescan. Still I have the problem.


> If I use Album Artist for such album (and do NOT set COMPILATION flag to 1),
> then such album does NOT show up as a compilation.

It does for me, and that is the core of my problem.


> OK I get it, by being treated as compilation I guess you and Jens
> mean whether it show us up under Artists->"Various Artists", right?

Exactly.


> the one album that is improperly handled, HOW SO? meaning, is it getting
> called a comp and in reality it is not a comp?

Exactly. It gets to be called a Compilation, i.e. "Various Artists", and should not (as it have one unique Album Artist for all files in folder).


> here's what i want you to do.
> for the album that is categorized incorrectly, change the album tag
> to "XYZ" and the AA tag to "ABC" (both for all tracks)
> and make all the artist tags represent the actual artist
> of the song per track.
> then do a full clear and rescan, and let us know where the album ends up.
> it SHOULD end up under "ABC" and NOT in the various artists category.
> IF it does end up in the VA category, it means at least one of the tracks
> must have a comp=1 tag on it.

Good idea! Regretably it did turn up as a "Various Artists". This is the very core of my problem.
I also get to have an album of XYZ whereas I do not get an Artist of ABC (which is correct handling).
It was a full clear rescan (I always use that).
And, I have very thorughly checked that NO track has a COMP=1 tag


> why mix formats on a single album? that kind of thing leads to issues like this.

I mix formats, because this folder essentially is a various artists folder for me. It is tracks where I have 1-2 track for each artist, and those artists are not ones that I would like to have in my Artists list. I basicly don't know the artist they just at a point in time made a hit which I like. These files I group in one folder. I may have ripped/obtained them in MP3 and I may have ripped them in WMA.
And, as mentioned, i do NOT want to have the folder/album in top of list due to the Various Artists functionality, as it disrupts the grouping and handling wrong, when I browse by genre and others.

Also, mixing MP3 and WMA should not be the reason for the problem.
As mentioned I have MP3 which mixes fine with WMA without the folder/album ending up as VA, whereas other MP3's does result in the error. I have tried file-by-file.


> we're definitely getting closer, and i do think that at times, one track
> with a stray tag can affect a whole album.

That is what I have been thinking also!
But I have cleared tracks for odd tags.

In the bottom, after my replies. I will post pictures of the tags from LMS for files that handles correctly and files the imposes the problem.


> try using this formula in mp3tag for tag types:
> %_tag_read%[ (%_tag%)]

Could you say a few words more, as to how this is done?


> I'd go as far as taking the mp3 only folder (assuming the problem is with the mp3's)
> and remove all but one file... Put the other files somewhere outside the
> LMS watched folders.
> You could then go one by one with each file and probably narrow down
> to a specific file. I would do it for all the files, too.
> You could have more than one file giving you problems.

I have tried that specifically as mentioned before. File by file. And I do have more files that causes the problem. As I also have files that do not cause the problem.
I'll post screenshots of both examples in the bottom.


> Last, you should clarify a bit exactly how you know files are being
> listed as compilations. Not being familiar with the Danish version
> of the software, are compilations grouped under "Various Artists"
> or is it actually a Danish translation of Various Artists?
> In other words, how is your Album Artist tag different from
> the compilation heading?
> I only ask because I know that as far as the English versions of
> the software go, if we have AA = Various Artists while
> compilations are set as Various Artists, albums with that AA
> won't show up (one of the earlier mentioned bugs).
> We either have to 1) explicitly add a compilation tag 2)
> rename the compilation identifier or 3) rename our AA to work
> around that bug.

Good point.
In the danish version "Various Artists" is called "Diverse kunstnere".
But I have tried to name Album Artis a name different from both "Various Artists" and "Diverse Kunstere". E.g. I have tried ZYX as mentioned above. But I have also tried other names. Also I have ensured, that the folder does not have a name of "Various artists" nor "diverse kunstnere". And again, I always do a full scan every time I try off solution proposals.
Also, I have tried setting my Compilation name in LMS to many different names, also names very different from the two standard names.
So, this is not the reason.


> right... whats important is that whatever the value is, the actual
> string you use, it has to be something that is NOT in any of
> your A or AA tags. the point is to avoid ANY possible string conflict.

As mentioned just above, I have tried that.
With no luck.


> Alternatively, could it be that you initially scanned this album into
> SBS/LMS without an album artist tag (or with a compilation tag),
> and you have now corrected the tags and rescanned,
> but it's not removing the Compilation flag. This used to be a bug
> in SBS, and probably hasn't been fixed in LMS.

The folder had an Album Artists tag from the very beginning. And I even had tried out with a new folder of a different name, and adding files one-by-one, always ensuring a Album Artists tag is present. Still I have the problem.


The above should answer most of your questions to me.

And now. To clarify my problem further, I would have liked to give you some screenshots. I will revert with these, partly as it is getting quite late here, but mostly since it was a bit more tricky for me to render it down to a few files giving the error.

I had specific files writtin down that gave the error, but trying it out further today I found that the tracks/files that specifically have given the error on another occasion (that is, when I added that specific file, the error of the folder being handled as Various Artists occured) does not give the error in combination with another subset of file/files. To me, that is even more odd.

I have tried so far.
- isolating it only to MP3, in one folder, same Artist tag same Album artist for all tracks. Still with the error.
- Isolating it to MP3's all with same tag-version. Still error.
- Having a set of MP3's and adding a specific file not given the error.
- Having another set of MP3, and adding the specific same file, given the error.
- having a subset of MP3's that does not give the error.
- When I have only WMA I never get the error.

In other words, the MP3's I had listet for you to see as the culprits, turned out not to be culprits when combined with other MP3's.

I'll investigate furter, to see if I can find one file only, that always make the error occur.

Philip Meyer
2012-03-11, 17:56
Have you tried looking at the tags that LMS has read via Song Info, More Info > View Tags? This might help to shed some light on your problem.

Other ideas:
- Check that you don't have any .cue sheets that reference any of your files.
- Disable music import from other sources, eg. disable iTunes sync, MusicIP sync.

emalvick
2012-03-12, 12:43
Hi all
I had specific files writtin down that gave the error, but trying it out further today I found that the tracks/files that specifically have given the error on another occasion (that is, when I added that specific file, the error of the folder being handled as Various Artists occured) does not give the error in combination with another subset of file/files. To me, that is even more odd.

I have tried so far.
- isolating it only to MP3, in one folder, same Artist tag same Album artist for all tracks. Still with the error.
- Isolating it to MP3's all with same tag-version. Still error.
- Having a set of MP3's and adding a specific file not given the error.
- Having another set of MP3, and adding the specific same file, given the error.
- having a subset of MP3's that does not give the error.
- When I have only WMA I never get the error.

In other words, the MP3's I had listet for you to see as the culprits, turned out not to be culprits when combined with other MP3's.

I'll investigate furter, to see if I can find one file only, that always make the error occur.

Thanks for the clarifications.

As for your errors and lack of errors, this is why I think we recommend creating a library that only involves the folder in question (leaving all your previous music out of the equation).

If errors do not occur, then it is probably another file. The problem with LMS is that if ANY file has a sort, Album Artist, etc. tag that is off, it can affect other similar files. This is even the case when the other files are correct.

As an example, I had a file by Pearl Jam that was on a soundtrack. Somewhere along the line it got tagged with an ArtistSort tag reflecting of my "Various Artists" album artist... i.e. the file ended up with ARTISTSORT=Various ARtists.

The result was that all my Pearl Jam files were sorted under Various Artists even though it was only one file that had gotten tagged that way.

Unfortunately, this error occurred at an odd timing (after I received their last album), and I searched for weeks in the folder where the new album was ripped for some bad tag only to find it was one file in a completely different folder causing my errors.

Keep us up to date on your progress.

MrSinatra
2012-03-25, 03:49
update?