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JJZolx
2012-01-14, 16:36
How exactly does volume synching work? Do all of the synched players simply use the same numeric volume level?

I ask because if I want to keep the volume levels of Transporter, Touch, SB2/3 between, say, 80-100, I don't want to drive my Radio at those levels. Is there a way to work around this problem?

aubuti
2012-01-14, 19:05
The standard LMS sync works exactly as you describe. The SyncOptions plugin allows for different "base" volume levels from each player -- I'm not 100% sure but I believe the levels are inherited from whatever the volume setting is at time of sync'ing. After that, volume changes are done proportionately, as described by this bit from the SyncOptions settings page.

RELATIVE VOLUME SYNCHRONIZATION
Whether volume changes in one synced player should cause proportionate changes in the other players with which it is synced. For instance, if you have Squeezebox A at volume 50, Squeezebox B at volume 60 and you increase the volume on Squeezebox A to 75, then Squeezebox B would increase its volume to 90.

iPeng also allows for different volume levels on different players, and then sync'ing volume changes.

JJZolx
2012-01-14, 19:29
I just installed SyncOptions, but it doesn't appear to do anything. Volume sync behavior remains the same. Looks like the plugin hasn't been updated in a while.

pippin
2012-01-14, 19:35
Did you disable the volume sync player setting on the server? That would override whatever SyncOptions does.

JJZolx
2012-01-14, 20:14
Thanks, that was it.

One thing, though, it doesn't seem to be purely proportional, as stated. I started by setting Transporter, Touch and SB2 to 100 and Radio to 80. By turning down the Transporter to 90 I would expect 0.8 x 90 = 72 on the Radio, but I get 78 instead.

pippin
2012-01-14, 20:27
Urgh. Don't know.
There's a thread buried somewhere here which contains the algorithm.
I know it's different from iPeng's which in turn also is not purely proportional.

I believe it's a good idea not to have a purely proportional response because you have to cope with offsets as well as different scales.

* offsets: if two players are intentionally set to different (real) volume levels you want to keep the difference and a small proportional change would have a big effect on the loud player but only a small one on the silent player
* scales: Radio and Boom don't have a linear volume response, if you change volume on them the same way as on, say, a Transporter you get strange results.

And then there is the issue that strictly going proportional gives you very bad results at very low volumes effectively leveling the volumes when you go towards low volumes and back up a few times due to rounding.

Can't speak for SyncOptions but iPeng uses a value that is based on the relative as well as the absolute change. I believe that generally the result is pretty good almost nobody complained so far and it's enabled by default in iPeng so I'm sure someone would if it was completely off.

JJZolx
2012-01-14, 20:32
I suppose I can understand using a non-proportional scale. What seems really odd (I'm not sure how I got here) is that although I started with 100 and 80, and after adjusting volumes in testing, now when I set the Transporter back to 100 the Radio is at 85.

pippin
2012-01-14, 20:34
Oh. Then maybe it _is_ purely proportional? Because that's _exactly_ the kind of issue I would expect with a purely proportional scale and try to avoid with my somewhat complex scale in iPeng:
Due to rounding errors at lower volumes the difference between the two volume scales should get smaller and smaller if you go down and back up with the combined volume.

Mnyb
2012-01-15, 02:15
Oh. Then maybe it _is_ purely proportional? Because that's _exactly_ the kind of issue I would expect with a purely proportional scale and try to avoid with my somewhat complex scale in iPeng:
Due to rounding errors at lower volumes the difference between the two volume scales should get smaller and smaller if you go down and back up with the combined volume.

i like your aproach good compromise, and you can stll nudge one player at time to fine tune, thats why nobody complained :)

Idealy as a base you should linearize the scales, and possibly use -dB as a unit, goal should be to for example if I increase +3dB every player should 3dB louder , but you are rigth something has to be compromised at the end pionts the boom have not the spl capacity of my HT , I usually sync boom to my kitchen Touch iPeng works well here I do not notice your tweaks in practice which probably is as intended :)

edit: I do agree that logitechs aproach is useless, you must be able to offset volume, so a bare minum is a "master volume" and "player volume" aproach .
this can be worked around in the SB3, Touch case where you are conected to a stereo, you can then use the stereo volume as offset.
But not with Boom or RADIO so thennthe offset must be innthe squeeze system somewhere.

Talla
2012-01-17, 07:53
I suppose I can understand using a non-proportional scale. What seems really odd (I'm not sure how I got here) is that although I started with 100 and 80, and after adjusting volumes in testing, now when I set the Transporter back to 100 the Radio is at 85.

if you start with 100 and 80 and you go above 80 with the radio it'll basically override your setting with this plugin. let's say if you increase the volume at the radio to 90, the "base setting" will then be 100/90.