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View Full Version : SlimServer - Still having problems with stream playback



KNUTE
2004-10-15, 01:09
Thank you all for pursuing this! I have been obsessed with trying to get this whole thing
working smoothly (SlimServer on my PC providing access to people wishing to stream my music).
And I had preconceived ideas on how it was "supposed" to work, based on that article in
MaximumPC magazine. It is a fine mag, but not infallible & of course they have no right to
speak for Slimdevices.

I've been clinging to the idea that people could stream from my SlimServer using just their
common Players, MediaPlayer, WinAmp & iTunes. Yes it's "possible", but I think at present
it's just too fraught with glitches & difficulties. Hopefully these things will be ironed-out in the
future.

For right now I agree that SoftSqueeze is the best. The downside is that I know it will be extremely
difficult to get people (Streamees) to download this unknown (to them) program, ESPECIALLY
when they find out that they also have to DL the Java environment -- it will scare off most people.

Anyway, I've found SoftSqueeze to be the best Player because, so far it has never played any of
my files at the wrong speed. However, if you observe it's performance through a playlist of files of
mixed attributes (different bitrates, channels, sample rates) you will likely see it skip some of the files
& sometimes it will simply stop.

One thing you mentioned that I didn't know: SoftSqueeze can be used withOUT a browser.
Question: Is it OK to still use the browser? Oh I hope so. With so many files in my Library it
would be too hard to navigate through them with SoftSqueeze alone.

Re the wrong-speed problem related to MONO & fix: Caution... I thought I'd discovered something
there, too. But that's one area where I have done a LOT of testing, and every time I thought I'd
finally narrowed the speed prob down to some attribute in the MP3 files, there would turn out to be
so many exceptions to the rule that... no rule can be found.
Specifically, I tested files that were mono, stereo, joint stereo, CBR, VBR, VBRI, 44kHz, 22kHz,
other Hertzes, 32kbps-475kbps & the many bitrates in-between. Some files of EACH of those
types will play fine, and some of each of them will play like Chipmunks or play ultra-slow.
I promise you, no rule can be made, none of those attributes can be arrested for speeding. :)
Caution on the FIX: Yes, if a file plays at the wrong speed (Winamp) or simply stops (iTunes, SSqueeze)
you can correct it for that ONE song by clicking Play on the Player (not browser). If you DON'T
correct the speed by clicking Play, the wrong speed will continue on through other songs.
The Fix works, but it gets old quick, having to run back to your PC to click Play each instance.
I just hope the solution to the speed problem can be made in the SlimServer software, as it seems to be
in SoftSqueeze.

kdf
2004-10-15, 01:26
well, I'm sorry to say I am expecting it to turn out to be a winamp bug. Winamp
would naturally assume a stream would be consistent. if you are not prepared
to provide a standard format for winamp, it will continue to have this problem.
With the bitrates you have, the only wya to force slimserver to affect every
case is to set the bitrate limiting to the lowest value possible. granted, the
settings dont allow settings as low as they could be, but if you are
interested, I can tell you how to get around that if you dont mind editing a
text file.

To be totally honest, your requirements are NOT what slimserver is designed for.
I also think, to expect 'these things to be ironed out' is probably
unrealistic since its not simply a slimserver problem. As for problems
navigating with softsqueeze, I cant' understand why you refuse to see it as the
SAME thing as winamp. How exactly does winamp make it ANY easier to operate?
They do NOT have to download softsqueeze....its included via a simple link.
Thus, if they have to download winamp, its the equivalent of java. Just use
softsqueeze as if it were winamp. connect, then use the web ui. Maximum PC was
not misleading. I'm sorry to say it, but its true. A magazine of that sort is
well within their rights to assume a certain type of audience, otherwise it
would be called 'everyday pc' (or perhaps Byte).

I think you cannot really blame winamp, itunes, windows media player OR
slimserver for any of this. Your library is all over the place. Perhaps you
should consider cleaning it up. I suspect, however, that your content is
mostly downloaded, so you can't really fix what you have. If you used a
download service, I'd look to them to provide something more consistent.

Quoting KNUTE <knute-m (AT) cox (DOT) net>:

> Thank you all for pursuing this! I have been obsessed with trying to get
> this whole thing
> working smoothly (SlimServer on my PC providing access to people wishing to
> stream my music).
> And I had preconceived ideas on how it was "supposed" to work, based on that
> article in
> MaximumPC magazine. It is a fine mag, but not infallible & of course they
> have no right to
> speak for Slimdevices.
>
> I've been clinging to the idea that people could stream from my SlimServer
> using just their
> common Players, MediaPlayer, WinAmp & iTunes. Yes it's "possible", but I
> think at present
> it's just too fraught with glitches & difficulties. Hopefully these things
> will be ironed-out in the
> future.
>
> For right now I agree that SoftSqueeze is the best. The downside is that I
> know it will be extremely
> difficult to get people (Streamees) to download this unknown (to them)
> program, ESPECIALLY
> when they find out that they also have to DL the Java environment -- it will
> scare off most people.
>
> Anyway, I've found SoftSqueeze to be the best Player because, so far it has
> never played any of
> my files at the wrong speed. However, if you observe it's performance
> through a playlist of files of
> mixed attributes (different bitrates, channels, sample rates) you will likely
> see it skip some of the files
> & sometimes it will simply stop.
>
> One thing you mentioned that I didn't know: SoftSqueeze can be used withOUT a
> browser.
> Question: Is it OK to still use the browser? Oh I hope so. With so many
> files in my Library it
> would be too hard to navigate through them with SoftSqueeze alone.
>
> Re the wrong-speed problem related to MONO & fix: Caution... I thought I'd
> discovered something
> there, too. But that's one area where I have done a LOT of testing, and
> every time I thought I'd
> finally narrowed the speed prob down to some attribute in the MP3 files,
> there would turn out to be
> so many exceptions to the rule that... no rule can be found.
> Specifically, I tested files that were mono, stereo, joint stereo, CBR, VBR,
> VBRI, 44kHz, 22kHz,
> other Hertzes, 32kbps-475kbps & the many bitrates in-between. Some files of
> EACH of those
> types will play fine, and some of each of them will play like Chipmunks or
> play ultra-slow.
> I promise you, no rule can be made, none of those attributes can be arrested
> for speeding. :)
> Caution on the FIX: Yes, if a file plays at the wrong speed (Winamp) or
> simply stops (iTunes, SSqueeze)
> you can correct it for that ONE song by clicking Play on the Player (not
> browser). If you DON'T
> correct the speed by clicking Play, the wrong speed will continue on through
> other songs.
> The Fix works, but it gets old quick, having to run back to your PC to click
> Play each instance.
> I just hope the solution to the speed problem can be made in the SlimServer
> software, as it seems to be
> in SoftSqueeze.
>

seanadams
2004-10-15, 07:38
This really is a winamp bug. MP3 data includes all the necessary
sample/channel info in every frame. Players are supposed to strictly
respect that info, and Squeezebox does. However, it is certainly
understandable that this was overlooked in winamp - I mean, how often
do you listen to radio sources that change PCM output parameters in
mid-stream?

Any workaround to this in our server would be very complicated and ugly
- not something we would undertake especially considering that
Squeezebox already handles this correctly.

Anyone know of easy GUI tools to convert a mono mp3 to stereo?



On Oct 15, 2004, at 1:26 AM, kdf wrote:

> well, I'm sorry to say I am expecting it to turn out to be a winamp
> bug. Winamp
> would naturally assume a stream would be consistent. if you are not
> prepared
> to provide a standard format for winamp, it will continue to have this
> problem.
> With the bitrates you have, the only wya to force slimserver to affect
> every
> case is to set the bitrate limiting to the lowest value possible.
> granted, the
> settings dont allow settings as low as they could be, but if you are
> interested, I can tell you how to get around that if you dont mind
> editing a
> text file.
>
> To be totally honest, your requirements are NOT what slimserver is
> designed for.
> I also think, to expect 'these things to be ironed out' is probably
> unrealistic since its not simply a slimserver problem. As for problems
> navigating with softsqueeze, I cant' understand why you refuse to see
> it as the
> SAME thing as winamp. How exactly does winamp make it ANY easier to
> operate?
> They do NOT have to download softsqueeze....its included via a simple
> link.
> Thus, if they have to download winamp, its the equivalent of java.
> Just use
> softsqueeze as if it were winamp. connect, then use the web ui.
> Maximum PC was
> not misleading. I'm sorry to say it, but its true. A magazine of
> that sort is
> well within their rights to assume a certain type of audience,
> otherwise it
> would be called 'everyday pc' (or perhaps Byte).
>
> I think you cannot really blame winamp, itunes, windows media player OR
> slimserver for any of this. Your library is all over the place.
> Perhaps you
> should consider cleaning it up. I suspect, however, that your content
> is
> mostly downloaded, so you can't really fix what you have. If you used
> a
> download service, I'd look to them to provide something more
> consistent.
>
> Quoting KNUTE <knute-m (AT) cox (DOT) net>:
>
>> Thank you all for pursuing this! I have been obsessed with trying to
>> get
>> this whole thing
>> working smoothly (SlimServer on my PC providing access to people
>> wishing to
>> stream my music).
>> And I had preconceived ideas on how it was "supposed" to work, based
>> on that
>> article in
>> MaximumPC magazine. It is a fine mag, but not infallible & of course
>> they
>> have no right to
>> speak for Slimdevices.
>>
>> I've been clinging to the idea that people could stream from my
>> SlimServer
>> using just their
>> common Players, MediaPlayer, WinAmp & iTunes. Yes it's "possible",
>> but I
>> think at present
>> it's just too fraught with glitches & difficulties. Hopefully these
>> things
>> will be ironed-out in the
>> future.
>>
>> For right now I agree that SoftSqueeze is the best. The downside is
>> that I
>> know it will be extremely
>> difficult to get people (Streamees) to download this unknown (to them)
>> program, ESPECIALLY
>> when they find out that they also have to DL the Java environment --
>> it will
>> scare off most people.
>>
>> Anyway, I've found SoftSqueeze to be the best Player because, so far
>> it has
>> never played any of
>> my files at the wrong speed. However, if you observe it's performance
>> through a playlist of files of
>> mixed attributes (different bitrates, channels, sample rates) you
>> will likely
>> see it skip some of the files
>> & sometimes it will simply stop.
>>
>> One thing you mentioned that I didn't know: SoftSqueeze can be used
>> withOUT a
>> browser.
>> Question: Is it OK to still use the browser? Oh I hope so. With so
>> many
>> files in my Library it
>> would be too hard to navigate through them with SoftSqueeze alone.
>>
>> Re the wrong-speed problem related to MONO & fix: Caution... I
>> thought I'd
>> discovered something
>> there, too. But that's one area where I have done a LOT of testing,
>> and
>> every time I thought I'd
>> finally narrowed the speed prob down to some attribute in the MP3
>> files,
>> there would turn out to be
>> so many exceptions to the rule that... no rule can be found.
>> Specifically, I tested files that were mono, stereo, joint stereo,
>> CBR, VBR,
>> VBRI, 44kHz, 22kHz,
>> other Hertzes, 32kbps-475kbps & the many bitrates in-between. Some
>> files of
>> EACH of those
>> types will play fine, and some of each of them will play like
>> Chipmunks or
>> play ultra-slow.
>> I promise you, no rule can be made, none of those attributes can be
>> arrested
>> for speeding. :)
>> Caution on the FIX: Yes, if a file plays at the wrong speed (Winamp)
>> or
>> simply stops (iTunes, SSqueeze)
>> you can correct it for that ONE song by clicking Play on the Player
>> (not
>> browser). If you DON'T
>> correct the speed by clicking Play, the wrong speed will continue on
>> through
>> other songs.
>> The Fix works, but it gets old quick, having to run back to your PC
>> to click
>> Play each instance.
>> I just hope the solution to the speed problem can be made in the
>> SlimServer
>> software, as it seems to be
>> in SoftSqueeze.
>>
>
>
>
>

kdf
2004-10-15, 09:21
Quoting Sean Adams <sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com>:

>
> This really is a winamp bug. MP3 data includes all the necessary
> sample/channel info in every frame. Players are supposed to strictly
> respect that info, and Squeezebox does. However, it is certainly
> understandable that this was overlooked in winamp - I mean, how often
> do you listen to radio sources that change PCM output parameters in
> mid-stream?
>
> Any workaround to this in our server would be very complicated and ugly
> - not something we would undertake especially considering that
> Squeezebox already handles this correctly.
>
> Anyone know of easy GUI tools to convert a mono mp3 to stereo?


http://www.waver-converter.com/
http://www.fairstars.com/audioconverter/index.htm

but it depends on how easy it needs to be.
-kdf