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Carrick1973
2011-11-08, 08:45
New to the forum, so sorry for the silly question (perhaps), but I can't for the life of me find a headless squeezebox player to hookup to self powered speakers. I love the Squeezebox Touch, but it doesn't seem quite as practical as a headless unit with the same internal DAC which would allow me to use my android phone as the interface from the comfort of the couch/kitchen, etc... Sonos has this with the SP90 and SP120, so why wouldn't Logitech create something similar?

Is there a DIY WIFI player out there that uses the Squeezeplayer software? Something akin to the pogoplug but with a audiophile DAC...

Thanks,
Steve

garym
2011-11-08, 08:57
New to the forum, so sorry for the silly question (perhaps), but I can't for the life of me find a headless squeezebox player to hookup to self powered speakers. I love the Squeezebox Touch, but it doesn't seem quite as practical as a headless unit with the same internal DAC which would allow me to use my android phone as the interface from the comfort of the couch/kitchen, etc... Sonos has this with the SP90 and SP120, so why wouldn't Logitech create something similar?

Is there a DIY WIFI player out there that uses the Squeezeplayer software? Something akin to the pogoplug but with a audiophile DAC...

Thanks,
Steve

by headless player, you mean without a screen? This was the now discontinued SB duet receiver. Then again, remove the screws holding on the TOUCH stand, use soundcheck's TT3.0 to turn off the screen display, lay the thing on its face, and you have something about the size of the duet receiver (but that plays aac files, 24/96 files, and has a better DAC.

toby10
2011-11-08, 09:01
Maybe I'm not understanding your question but that is exactly what a SqueezeBox Touch is, a headless music player which can be controlled from an iPhone or Android.
Or it can be controlled by:
- it's IR remote
- it's own touch screen
- web UI (SBS/LMS or MySB.com)
- a software player like SoftSqueeze or SqueezePlay
- another SB player (Touch or Radio)
- SB Controller (may as well use a smart phone)

Touch can connect to any of three servers to function:
- itself via USB or SD, with limited functionality
- SBS/LMS server running on a PC or Mac or NAS
- MySB.com online for Internet Radio, subscription services, podcasts (but no local music)

Carrick1973
2011-11-08, 09:04
by headless player, you mean without a screen? This was the now discontinued SB duet receiver. Then again, remove the screws holding on the TOUCH stand, use soundcheck's TT3.0 to turn off the screen display, lay the thing on its face, and you have something about the size of the duet receiver (but that plays aac files, 24/96 files, and has a better DAC.

Yes, I mean headless in terms of no screen like the duet. Take the screen away, but keep the internal audio components the same and sell it for 100 bucks and they'd fly off the shelves. I'm looking to minimize the cost outlay for a multi-room setup, and it doesn't make sense to go with multiple squeezebox touches when I've got an android phone in my pocket that can interface with all of them from anywhere in my house. The touchscreen is probably the most expensive part of the touch as well.

garym
2011-11-08, 09:10
The touchscreen is probably the most expensive part of the touch as well.

actually, it's not we're told.

p.s. I have a duet receiver (which I no longer use). My recall is that these caused untold problems in setup, etc. as the user had only a few blinking lights to inform him/her of what was going on. So logitech probably decided this was too much of a headache. That said, there have been many people who prefer the no screen approach like yourself and have asked for a "new" duet receiver.

JJZolx
2011-11-08, 09:15
New to the forum, so sorry for the silly question (perhaps), but I can't for the life of me find a headless squeezebox player to hookup to self powered speakers. I love the Squeezebox Touch, but it doesn't seem quite as practical as a headless unit with the same internal DAC which would allow me to use my android phone as the interface from the comfort of the couch/kitchen, etc... Sonos has this with the SP90 and SP120, so why wouldn't Logitech create something similar?

The only headless Squeezebox manufactured was the Receiver half of the Duet, which is no longer made. How can a Touch be "not as practical" as a Receiver? It can be controlled in exactly the same ways in additional to the Touch screen and the IR input. You're not forced to use either, but the touch screen is a godsend for setup and configuration compared to the way the Duet was setup. And using the infrared remote can be much handier than any remote app for quickly adjusting the volume or skipping a song. If you find the screen too bright or distracting you can turn all of the screensavers (off, stopped, playing) to 'Screen off'.

You can sometimes find older Squeezeboxes for sale used, but the Touch is considered by almost everyone to have superior sound quality over all of the older Squeezeboxes except the Transporter. If you can find a Receiver, it will need to be set up either using the Controller or by some gyrations using a software program found in these forums.

One other approach to a headless unit might be to setup a small PC and run SqueezePlay. Since it's a 'software' player it has the disadvantage, though, of not being fully synchable with hardware Squeezebox players.

toby10
2011-11-08, 09:30
Audiophile for $100? That would indeed be nice. ;)

You might find some used Duet Receivers for close to that, but you won't get the audio quality of the Touch in a Receiver. Then there is the setup issues absent a screen.
I'm not in the electronics biz but I'd bet the Touch's screen represents no more than 10% of the Touch's production costs, but just a wild guess.

Best I can suggest is wait for Touch to go on sale and just ignore the screen, or turn it off as Gary suggests.
That is, if you want the audio quality of the Touch.

Maybe a Roku ($49 to $99) with a smartphone App will suit your needs?

Carrick1973
2011-11-08, 09:34
My purpose is to keep costs down for a whole house/multi-zone setup. I would think that they could create a headless hockey puck sized box that could hookup to powered speakers. The interface would be either through a PC via wifi or through an app loaded onto an android/IOS device. Setup/Configuration/Song Selection could all be performed from said device.

I can certainly see the importance of having the Squeezebox touch, and will probably buy several (kitchen and bedroom come to mind), but for the living room, it seems that a headless unit would make more sense since the audio equipment is inside a cabinet and the user is usually sitting on the couch.

Sonos certainly saw the need for these devices, which is why the created the SP90 and SP120. The reason I want a Logitech device instead of a Sonos device though is the quality of the sound components that they use.

Carrick1973
2011-11-08, 09:37
Audiophile for $100? That would indeed be nice. ;)


Well, perhaps 150 or 200 bucks, but regardless, remove the touch screen and the cost and size would be reduced. The DAC, from what I've read is extremely good, which is my purpose in getting a logitech branded device...

garym
2011-11-08, 09:44
Recently bought an extra touch new from Logitech for $209 I think. A bargain.

JJZolx
2011-11-08, 09:48
My purpose is to keep costs down for a whole house/multi-zone setup. I would think that they could create a headless hockey puck sized box that could hookup to powered speakers. The interface would be either through a PC via wifi or through an app loaded onto an android/IOS device. Setup/Configuration/Song Selection could all be performed from said device.

That was the Receiver/Controller, aka Duet. Unfortunately, due to the cost of the Controller, the combo was priced at $400 vs. $300 for the Squeezebox3 being produced at the time. They then sold add-on Receivers for $150.

The headless nature of the Receiver caused no end of problems during setup, because there was little usable feedback for troubleshooting problems. Because of that and because Logitech has largely abandoned new development of the Squeezebox product line, I wouldn't expect to see a replacement for the Duet or the Receiver.

In any case, eliminating the screen from the Touch wouldn't subtract a lot from the retail price. Those little 4.3" touch screens are being produced by the millions and are fairly inexpensive.

jfo
2011-11-08, 09:50
Recently bought an extra touch new from Logitech for $209 I think. A bargain.

Unfortunately, a 1 week promo only. It's back to $299.

alfista
2011-11-08, 10:17
I love the Squeezebox Touch, but it doesn't seem quite as practical as a headless unit with the same internal DAC
Based on the experience from the SB Receiver, the Touch is infinitely more practical than a "headless" unit, especially during installation. I wouldn't go as far as saying that the cost of the display is negligible, but the cost of the display is likely to be so low that it's not much point for Logitch in having a slightly cheaper but far less flexible product in the lineup.
I've never understood why some people are so bothered by having a function on their device that thay rarely use, have a look at the appliances and gadgets in your home, I bet that for most of them there are some features that you've never used.

Carrick1973
2011-11-08, 11:28
Unfortunately, a 1 week promo only. It's back to $299.

Yikes - that's a pretty sweet deal.

I don't believe that a company like Logitech couldn't come up with an interface application that would work off of Android/iOS for setup/configuration of a headless unit. Apple certainly has with the Apple TV - well designed and powerful in a small unit that is 99 bucks. They get it. Heck, the Lepai T-amp is only 15 bucks and it's pretty good for an amplifier. With upgraded caps, it does very well in fact.

Logitech should be able to come up with something similar to the Pogoplug, with a t-amp (or not), DAC and wifi chip in it for somewhere between 100 and 150 bucks. The Roku HD boxes are less than 80 bucks and they push HD video wirelessly.

garym
2011-11-08, 12:01
Unfortunately, a 1 week promo only. It's back to $299.

keep your eyes out as they often do special deals or offer % off coupons.

toby10
2011-11-08, 12:19
......
I don't believe that a company like Logitech couldn't come up with an interface application that would work off of Android/iOS for setup/configuration of a headless unit.....

Logitech should be able to come up with something similar to the Pogoplug, with a t-amp (or not), DAC and wifi chip in it for somewhere between 100 and 150 bucks. The Roku HD boxes are less than 80 bucks and they push HD video wirelessly.

Logitech can't come up with a smart phone app to simply switch their player between Logitech's own two servers.

Let's not segregate the SqueezeBox players any further, we are damn lucky to have what we have, and at $300 (or less) the Touch is the best device in it's class.

I like your idea but what custom boutique hardware device that works for you won't work for all, as the current Touch model does. Someone else will argue "I have an external DAC so remove the DAC" or "if I'm using the analog outs then remove the two digital outs" or "I plan to use a server on my PC so remove the USB and SD card".... you can drive yourself batty trying to custom build for every possible user scenario when all along the product you desire is already there, granted at a higher price point than you wish.

Mnyb
2011-11-08, 12:49
yep if economics of scale should come in to it , logitech is probably wise to offer just two variants one with speakers one without , with a lot of features so it would fit the needs of many users.

Remote controll hardware is no longer necessary as all kinds of apps are avaible.

I don't think getting into 5-6 different models again is any good, it complicates the whole operation support development logistics everything, this costs is going somewhere.

I think the choosen quality level is just rigth, you can build cheaper/crappier but then it would no longer be a product for music entusiasts .

andynormancx
2011-11-08, 13:13
I don't believe that a company like Logitech couldn't come up with an interface application that would work off of Android/iOS for setup/configuration of a headless unit. Apple certainly has with the Apple TV - well designed and powerful in a small unit that is 99 bucks.

Doesn't the Apple TV have the benefit of a display to set it up with i.e. the TV ?

The Controller/Receiver combination of the Duet attempt to use a very clever trick be able to set the Receiver up over wifi. When in setup mode the Receiver creates an ad hoc wifi network that the Controller connects to in order to set it up.

It certainly wouldn't be possible for Logitech to create an iOS app that reproduces this setup process. iOS simply doesn't grant apps the low level network access required to pull off this trick.

One would hope that if Logitech did I future headless unit that they'd take the approach that routers do, make the user connect it via Ethernet and use a web server on the player for wifi setup.

Carrick1973
2011-11-08, 13:42
Doesn't the Apple TV have the benefit of a display to set it up with i.e. the TV ?

The Controller/Receiver combination of the Duet attempt to use a very clever trick be able to set the Receiver up over wifi. When in setup mode the Receiver creates an ad hoc wifi network that the Controller connects to in order to set it up.

It certainly wouldn't be possible for Logitech to create an iOS app that reproduces this setup process. iOS simply doesn't grant apps the low level network access required to pull off this trick.

One would hope that if Logitech did I future headless unit that they'd take the approach that routers do, make the user connect it via Ethernet and use a web server on the player for wifi setup.

Very good points, and a good approach on setting it up. I don't think it would be terribly hard to implement, but it's a marketing decision that they don't want to make. Looks like Sonos wins on that front, but on the other hand, you certainly pay a premium for the Sonos brand even though it doesn't have the sound quality of the Touch.

TiredLegs
2011-11-08, 13:46
I suggest looking for a used SB2 or SB3 on Craigslist or eBay. If you really don't want the display, you could just turn it off (using the brightness button on the remote control).

TheLastMan
2011-11-09, 04:34
Let's not segregate the SqueezeBox players any further, we are damn lucky to have what we have, and at $300 (or less) the Touch is the best device in it's class.

I like your idea but what custom boutique hardware device that works for you won't work for all, as the current Touch model does. Someone else will argue "I have an external DAC so remove the DAC" or "if I'm using the analog outs then remove the two digital outs" or "I plan to use a server on my PC so remove the USB and SD card".... you can drive yourself batty trying to custom build for every possible user scenario when all along the product you desire is already there, granted at a higher price point than you wish.
+1

Absolutely right in all respects. As the owner of two Receivers I would be quite happy to replace either or both of them with a Touch if/when I feel the need and have the cash.

My problems with the Duet have always lain with the Controller that (though much more reliable than it was to begin with) still seems to fail to find my server on a regular basis. The problem is always fixable by turning it off and on again.

If I had Touches I would instantly have another way of controlling the music if the Controller decided not to cooperate!

aubuti
2011-11-09, 06:02
Well, perhaps 150 or 200 bucks, but regardless, remove the touch screen and the cost and size would be reduced. The DAC, from what I've read is extremely good, which is my purpose in getting a logitech branded device...
I think you very seriously overestimate the contribution of the touchscreen to the cost of the Touch. Notice that it's the same size as a lot of phones and GPS units? There is the development cost (now largely sunk) of porting SqueezeOS to display on the Touch.

TBH, I don't know the costs, but I bet you're looking at saving maybe $25 by removing the screen. And numerous headaches with setup, as experienced with the Duet Receiver.

minscof
2012-06-30, 10:27
New to the forum, so sorry for the silly question (perhaps), but I can't for the life of me find a headless squeezebox player to hookup to self powered speakers. I love the Squeezebox Touch, but it doesn't seem quite as practical as a headless unit with the same internal DAC which would allow me to use my android phone as the interface from the comfort of the couch/kitchen, etc... Sonos has this with the SP90 and SP120, so why wouldn't Logitech create something similar?

Is there a DIY WIFI player out there that uses the Squeezeplayer software? Something akin to the pogoplug but with a audiophile DAC...

Thanks,
Steve

Hi, I do it on an arm device (iomega iconnect) using archlinux + squeezeplay + xvfb
You can see this link https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=56769

Hope this help
Minscof

Gingernut63
2012-06-30, 16:17
The Logitechshop in Australia is still selling Duets + remote for $185 Aus.

http://www.logitechshop.com.au/products/network-music-player

Gingernut63