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Atlantic
2011-10-20, 06:52
Our setup uses SBS, and SBRs. Everything is working fine. The music - whether an album or a hand-built playlist - plays back without gaps between the tracks. We'd prefer to have a short gap between tracks so I looked through SBS settings to see if this was possible.

I couldn't find anything. (I've looked several times.) The nearest I got to was something named 'crossfade' but I didn't really want to fade anything.

This would be particularly good for us when listening to classical pieces, where we find that a short gap between movements or items can often be welcome.

Have I missed a setting in SBS?

regards, Atlantic

[By the way, apologies for the rather wordy title; thought it might help others if subsequently 'searching' for the same thing]

andyg
2011-10-20, 06:57
I don't think I've ever heard of someone wanting gaps! You should listen to the music the way it was intended, and the same way it plays on a CD. :)

Atlantic
2011-10-20, 07:08
You should listen to the music the way it was intended, and the same way it plays on a CD. :)

Andy, I completely agree! I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. The problem is that when playing individual tracks, say 1812 Overture, followed by Romeo & Juliet, at present there is no gap at all between the end of the sound of the first piece, and the beginning of the sound of the second piece.

Whereas, on a CD, there is a gap of, say, 3 or 4 seconds (I've never measured it) between the pieces. And, in a concert - even when conducted by the composer, there is a gap between a piece's movements, and certainly between pieces themselves.

It is the 'gap' that the composer intended, and that the CD player exhibits, that I am trying to recapture.

regards, Atlantic

andyg
2011-10-20, 07:15
I'm afraid there really is no good way to do this. You might want to try using "Fade in and out" as your crossfade setting, which will at least make it less abrupt.

andyg
2011-10-20, 07:16
Also make sure you select Smart Crossfade so it won't fade if you are playing 2 consecutive tracks.

garym
2011-10-20, 07:29
Andy, I completely agree! I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. The problem is that when playing individual tracks, say 1812 Overture, followed by Romeo & Juliet, at present there is no gap at all between the end of the sound of the first piece, and the beginning of the sound of the second piece.

Whereas, on a CD, there is a gap of, say, 3 or 4 seconds (I've never measured it) between the pieces. And, in a concert - even when conducted by the composer, there is a gap between a piece's movements, and certainly between pieces themselves.

It is the 'gap' that the composer intended, and that the CD player exhibits, that I am trying to recapture.

regards, Atlantic

This is very odd. All of my rips of CDs/Tracks that do have gaps play with gaps on all my SB players. How were your CDs ripped and was there some odd setting you used at the time of ripping that removed the gaps? And agree, make sure you don't have crossfade turned on (in my setup it is off, so I DO get the gaps where gaps exist).

Atlantic
2011-10-20, 07:35
I'm afraid there really is no good way to do this. You might want to try using "Fade in and out" as your crossfade setting, which will at least make it less abrupt.

Ok, I will try this, and see how it sounds. From what you say, it's the practical thing to do with SBS.

On a different tack, could the insertion of a timed gap (between streaming of successive tracks to a player) be performed by a suitably-written plug-in? And if so, would such a plug-in be capable of being written in Perl?

regards, Atlantic

Atlantic
2011-10-20, 07:45
This is very odd. All of my rips of CDs/Tracks that do have gaps play with gaps on all my SB players. How were your CDs ripped and was there some odd setting you used at the time of ripping that removed the gaps? And agree, make sure you don't have crossfade turned on (in my setup it is off, so I DO get the gaps where gaps exist).

Gary, I must check that; it may be that the problem is ok on the CD rips we have but is definitely prevalent on digital captures from analogue sources where our music was captured on a track-by-track basis. From now on (knowing this) we can add a few seconds silence, at the end of each capture, using Audacity. (We use crip to create the flac files from our CDs.)

Thanks for the comment, too, I hadn't explicitly checked what the situation is on our CD flacs; most of the music we listen to is from analogue sources.

regards, Atlantic

garym
2011-10-20, 08:09
Gary, I must check that; it may be that the problem is ok on the CD rips we have but is definitely prevalent on digital captures from analogue sources where our music was captured on a track-by-track basis. From now on (knowing this) we can add a few seconds silence, at the end of each capture, using Audacity. (We use crip to create the flac files from our CDs.)

Thanks for the comment, too, I hadn't explicitly checked what the situation is on our CD flacs; most of the music we listen to is from analogue sources.

regards, Atlantic

I'm not much help here, but I know that some rippers have options of removing, adding, etc. gaps. I highly recommend dbpoweramp as a CD ripper for FLAC. At least in my case, it addresses gaps perfectly with no special setting. That is, if it is a live concert or pink floyd, etc. with no gaps, it rips (and plays back on SB) with no gaps. If it is a track that was meant to have a gap, it is there on playback. good luck....

Phil Leigh
2011-10-20, 08:33
I'm not much help here, but I know that some rippers have options of removing, adding, etc. gaps. I highly recommend dbpoweramp as a CD ripper for FLAC. At least in my case, it addresses gaps perfectly with no special setting. That is, if it is a live concert or pink floyd, etc. with no gaps, it rips (and plays back on SB) with no gaps. If it is a track that was meant to have a gap, it is there on playback. good luck....

This is all true for rips for commercial CD's, but vinyl rips tend not to have silence at the end of each track (mostly because the inter-track gap on the original vinyl is full of clicks and pops...)

cliveb
2011-10-21, 00:41
Gary, I must check that; it may be that the problem is ok on the CD rips we have but is definitely prevalent on digital captures from analogue sources where our music was captured on a track-by-track basis. From now on (knowing this) we can add a few seconds silence, at the end of each capture, using Audacity. (We use crip to create the flac files from our CDs.)

It sounds to me as if we're talking mainly about classical music here. In my experience, classical CDs tend to put the gap into index 0 of the upcoming track (that's the part where you see your CD player "counting down"). If you have ripped individual tracks, then the liklihood is that the ripper has started at the position of index 1 (the point where your CD player stops counting down and the music begins). So you have lost the gap that was present on the CD.

As others have pointed out, rippers often have options regarding what to do with the index 0 portion of tracks (also known as the "pregap"). I think what you want to do most of the time is to ask the ripper to append the pregap to the end of the previous track when ripping - and this means you need to rip the whole CD in one go, not track-by-track.

Unfortunately there are also CDs where the content of the pregap naturally belongs at the front of the track it precedes - for example live concert recordings where someone makes an announcement before the song is played. So appending the pregap to the end of the previous track isn't always the right choice. But for studio classical recordings, chances are the pregap is just silence.

Atlantic
2011-10-21, 06:27
It sounds to me as if we're talking mainly about classical music here. In my experience, classical CDs tend to put the gap into index 0 of the upcoming track (that's the part where you see your CD player "counting down"). If you have ripped individual tracks, then the liklihood is that the ripper has started at the position of index 1 (the point where your CD player stops counting down and the music begins). So you have lost the gap that was present on the CD.



Clive, useful post.

Ive done some tests and noticed this in terms of playback of various types of files:

Hotel California CD -> track by track rip -> has audible gaps when listening

Everly Bros compilation CD -> track by track rip -> has gaps while listening

Analogue sourced tracks -> track by track capture without silence gaps -> no gaps while listening

Then I made a handbuilt playlist, analogue track then CD track then analogue then CD, etc, and heard:

(a) No gap between analogue track followed by CD track, then

(b) Very short gap between CD track followed by analogue, then

(c) No gap between analogue track followed by CD track, then

(d) Very, very short gap between CD track followed by analogue

I conclude from this, and from your post, that the 'index 0' gap has been appended to the end of the previous track, though I am not sure this has happened 'every' time. Maybe over the weekend I can run some of these tracks through audacity and see just what 'silence' there is, and where.

I've looked again at the crip website ( http://bach.dynet.com/crip/ ) and I notice that there are settings for dealing with 'silence' so I think I need to be more specific about that when I'm capturing from CDs (I created those files when we'd just first had SBS and probably didn't fully understand why the gap might be important). We purposely do track-by-track captures so that specific movements of a longer work can be played, if we want. On classical 'compilation' CDs - several different works - then track-by-track labelling and access is vital.

From the point of view of the analogue captures, I think I'd like to add 3 seconds silence to the start of each of the files. Some sort of 'batch job' might manage this, I'll look into that.

regards, Atlantic

maggior
2011-10-21, 07:08
The issue is probably related to how the "analog" (aka vinyl rips) were "mastered". I used to rip a lot of vinyl back in the day and I found that I had to insert silence in certain places to give the resulting CD a natural flow and at the same time minimize noise from the vinyl.

For instance, I would fade in the audio on the first track of each side right before the music started. On the last track, I would fade out the last track on each side right after the music ended. I discovered that if it were burned to a CD this way, it would sound to abrupt when transitioning from side 1 to side 2 and that it would start/end abrupbtly at the begining/end of the CD.

So, what I started to do was insert 2 seconds prior to the first track and the end of the last track of the overall album. At the end of the last track on side 1 and the first track on side 2, I would insert 1 second.

To really fix the problem, I think you will have to revisit the vinyl rips in your collection and apply something similar.

atrocity
2011-10-28, 15:32
I don't think I've ever heard of someone wanting gaps! You should listen to the music the way it was intended, and the same way it plays on a CD. :)

"Is it gapless?" is always my first question about any device...usually the answer is "no" and I immediately lose interest.

But having said that...I do occasionally wish for the ability to automatically insert a couple dead seconds between albums, especially when playing them randomly. My tastes are such that I'm perfectly happy to go from Beethoven to the Sex Pistols, but not necessarily with a hard splice.

I've thought of just creating a two-second or so silent track, but that would only work when I'm personally and explicitly building the playlist.