PDA

View Full Version : Announce: Whitebear Media Server v2.2 Released



AndrewFG
2011-10-11, 07:17
A new version of Whitebear Media Server has been released.

http://www.whitebear.ch/mediaserver

Improvements in this version:

1. The browse tree is now the same as in Squeezebox Server.
2. There is improved client compatibilty with various clients (e.g. Humax, BubbleUpnP, 2Play, PlugPlayer, J.River, second instance of Squeezebox Server, xbmc, Sony TVs, etc.)
3. Transcoded files are now chached for faster replay, and track seek is now supported.
4. The support for the UPnP Search function has been extended.
5. The tray monitor provides more information and control.
6. General stability improvements and bug fixes have been made.
7. A bug fix has just (2011-10-15) been posted to resolve a threadlock issue, and a memory leak.


PS if you feel like making a donation, I added a link for that on the download page :-)

AndrewFG
2011-11-02, 14:20
A new minor point release version of Whitebear Media Server has been released today.

http://www.whitebear.ch/mediaserver

Improvements in this release:

1. Improved client compatibility
2. Improved user interface on Tray Monitor (e.g. added live check for updates)
3. Improved user interface on Browse Trees (e.g. added top level icons)
4. Bug fixes concerning browsing of music folders and app folders

PS if you feel like making a donation, I added a link for that on the download page :-)

goffie
2011-11-03, 11:26
I use J River Media ctr v 12 and have a squeezebox.

Where can I find basic "how to" instructions to send music directly from J River Media Center directly to Squeezebox?

Thanks:)

AndrewFG
2011-11-03, 11:40
I use J River Media ctr v 12 and have a squeezebox.
Where can I find basic "how to" instructions to send music directly from J River Media Center directly to Squeezebox?I am not sure how it is in JRMC v12 since I have v16 myself.
However in JRMC v16 you right click on a track or album and select Send To | Play | "{player name} (by Whitebear)".
One quirk of JRMC is that it is very slow to discover devices, so you may need to wait a minute or two before "{player name} (by Whitebear)" appears in the menu...

goffie
2011-11-03, 13:45
I am not sure how it is in JRMC v12 since I have v16 myself.
However in JRMC v16 you right click on a track or album and select Send To | Play | "{player name} (by Whitebear)".
One quirk of JRMC is that it is very slow to discover devices, so you may need to wait a minute or two before "{player name} (by Whitebear)" appears in the menu...

I have upgraded to J River MC v 17, installed whitebear, have squeezebox turned on / running...

Now have a "no sound" issue to figure out:

J River is recognizing & displaying "squeezebox by whitebear" under "playing now" I load up tracks to the Squeezebox (by Whitebear) and they stream to squeezeserver ... track info is on the squeezebox display...but no volume/sound to be heard. I did all obvious troubleshooting on my audio system and I'm sure all is well with the audio system.

Any ideas on what to do next?

Thanks...

AndrewFG
2011-11-03, 23:55
J River is recognizing & displaying "squeezebox by whitebear" under "playing now" I load up tracks to the Squeezebox (by Whitebear) and they stream to squeezeserver ... track info is on the squeezebox display...but no volume/sound to be heard.Some rather obvious questions (sorry for that): Did you check the volume slider / mute button / play & pause button on the JRMC player controls? And when everything is playing the track position bar should be moving...

goffie
2011-11-04, 12:21
I restarted my PC, and all is working just fine now.

So I have J River MC (version 17) >Whitebear>Squeezebox>Home audio system.

Cool!

AndrewFG
2011-11-04, 15:10
Cool!That's the Whitebear...

erland
2011-11-04, 16:37
Just out of interest, what's the main difference between Whitebear Media Server and the built-in UPnP server that's now bundled with LMS ?

I can't easily compare it myself as I'm on Linux and I don't think Whitebear currently runs on Linux ?

Does Whitebear also support video and photos when used with LMS 7.7 or is it focused at music ?

Gblenn
2011-11-05, 01:21
I can't easily compare it myself as I'm on Linux and I don't think Whitebear currently runs on LinuxActually it does, if you use Wine. You have to do some fiddling with the codecs folder and point Whitebear in the right direction there. I think what I did was to create a copy of the codecs folder from a windows version of SBS for wine.
Have not tested enough to know if transcoding works though, couldnt get it to play on Plugplayer (iPad) although I can browse my music... Will try the new version when I get a chance.

Gblenn
2011-11-05, 04:25
Actually it does, if you use Wine. You have to do some fiddling with the codecs folder and point Whitebear in the right direction there. I think what I did was to create a copy of the codecs folder from a windows version of SBS for wine.
Have not tested enough to know if transcoding works though, couldn't get it to play on Plugplayer (iPad) although I can browse my music... Will try the new version when I get a chance.Just tested to install 2.2.1, does not work... :(
Wine installer gives me message "Access violation at address 00409876. Write of address 00400000"

Tried a long shot; installed on a Windows machine and copied/replaced files of 2.1 version in Wine...
It starts but hangs; Whitebear ... status: "changing......" and SSDP Listener/notification, M-SEARCH and Server are all inactive.

AndrewFG
2011-11-07, 11:33
Just out of interest, what's the main difference between Whitebear Media Server and the built-in UPnP server that's now bundled with LMS ?Hi Erland, dare I say it, but the only main difference is that Whitebear actually works... ;-)


Does Whitebear also support video and photos when used with LMS 7.7 or is it focused at music ?Music only.

AndrewFG
2011-11-07, 11:56
Have not tested enough to know if transcoding works though, couldnt get it to play on Plugplayer (iPad) although I can browse my music... Will try the new version when I get a chance.Yeah, Plugplayer is quite non- compliant to the UPnP standard...

I wrote to the Plugplayer author a few weeks ago about this, and perhaps he will take on board my suggestions in newer releases.

In the meantime, you can make Plugplayer work with the current version of Whitebear, but you need to make two changes in your iPad | Plugplayer settings:

1) In iPad Settings | Plugplayer, turn off "Browser Art". It will still show the artwork when playing tracks, but it does not try to show artwork when browsing the library.

2) In iPad Settings | Plugplayer, increase the "SOAP Timeout" to (say) 60 seconds.

Please let me know if that helps you to get it working.

Wigster
2011-11-11, 13:54
Hi,

Running the latest (2.2.1.2126) Whitebear with SBS 7.6.2 on WHS.

In my WMP client on my Win 7 laptop, the Whitebear library that appears seems outdated. I had a problem in the past, where Windows overwrote a whole bunch of my tags corrupting the Album Artist tags, such that they appear as "Radiohead / LBUMARTIST" or some such.

I finally have got around to fixing all of them, and when I perform a search for such artists in the SBS web interface, no more such tracks appear (I wiped and rescanned the library).

However, the library that appears in Win 7's WMP still has all these old tags. I'm not sure if this is a WMP issue or a Whitebear issue, but either way, how do I get the cache cleared?

Thanks!

Wigster
2011-11-12, 08:32
Hi,

So I have completely wiped the WMP-12 library cache on my client, and indeed it now downloads the new library being served by Whitebear.

However, now I have a strange thing: I have about 500 tracks which seems to have various HTML markup commands as titles instead of what should be there. I've attached a screenshot. Clearly they don't play. All the fields for these tracks are unknown and the file path is empty.

Some tracks do seem to be missing from the library proper, so something unkosher is going on.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15242944/WB.PNG

What should I investigate?

vagskal
2011-11-13, 11:54
I cannot get any music to play on my Squeezeboxes from JRiver Media Center using Send to or playing on a SB player zone. My Squeexboxes show up under Playing Now as [SB player name] (by Whitebear) but MC reports a problem controlling the selected DLNA device.

I am using SBS latest 7.6.2 and the latest Whitebear version with MC 17, latest beta. MC runs on a Win 7 64 bit PC and SBS runs on a Win XP PC on the same wired local network. Only Windows firewall on both PCs and on the XP PC Whitebear is among the exceptions and on the Win 7 PC MC is among the exceptions; this must have been set automatically by the programs. MC is using files on a usb disc connected to the Win 7 PC and SBS is using an exact copy of the files from another usb disc connected to the Win XP PC. I could make MC see the same files as SBS with the exact same paths if necessary.

None of the settings in Whitebear for "J. River Internet Reader" is selected. In MC I have only one DLNA server, the stock "Generic DLNA" and I have set MC to never convert audio (an set the encoder to uncompressed).

Any ideas?

AndrewFG
2011-11-13, 14:16
So I have completely wiped the WMP-12 library cache on my client, and indeed it now downloads the new library being served by Whitebear.Hi Wigster,

You are correct that one way to reset WMP is to delete its cache. Another way is to right click on the "Your Library (by Whitebear)" and select Refresh..


However, now I have a strange thing: I have about 500 tracks which seems to have various HTML markup commands as titles instead of what should be there. I've attached a screenshot. Clearly they don't play. All the fields for these tracks are unknown and the file path is empty.

Some tracks do seem to be missing from the library proper, so something unkosher is going on.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15242944/WB.PNG

What should I investigate?Yes indeed that does look very odd; basically Whitebear just acts as an intermediary between the client (in your case WMP) and Squeezebox Server. So I think the first thing you should check is whether the same "track" also appears in the Squeezebox web UI. This might give some hint about whate the track is, and why it appears in the library.

AndrewFG
2011-11-13, 14:46
My Squeexboxes show up under Playing Now as [SB player name] (by Whitebear) but MC reports a problem controlling the selected DLNA device.What exactly does the problem report say?


I could make MC see the same files as SBS with the exact same paths if necessary.It is not necessary to make MC see the same files. Indeed if you do that, it is a recipe for total confusion since JRMC will then show two libraries containg the exact same files, and you will not be able to determine what is trying to be played from where to what... (see my question 3) below...) Personally I recommend to test things first with a few completely separate and uniquely named and tagged files on each machine so that you can work out what is going on.


None of the settings in Whitebear for "J. River Internet Reader" is selected. In MC I have only one DLNA server, the stock "Generic DLNA" and I have set MC to never convert audio (an set the encoder to uncompressed).I don't think any of this is relevant to your case.


Any ideas?Four things:

1) Try restarting both computers.

2) Try pressing the JRMC Play/Pause/Volume/Mute controls...

3) Please tell me exactly what you are trying to do: Are you a) trying to play a track from J. R. Media Center's own media library (the files local to the JRMC machine), or are you b) trying to play a track from SBS library (the files local to the SBS machine) that Whitebear is causing to show up in J. R. Media Center?

4) Turn on logging for HTTP Server in Whitebear, and capture the what happens when you do the Play To command. Open the log file and look for commands containing the string #SetAVTransportUri and #Play -- if you don't see such commands, then you have a firewall problem. Whereas if you do see such commands, please send me the log file.

vagskal
2011-11-13, 23:46
Thanks for the reply!


What exactly does the problem report say?

In MC: "There was a problem controlling the selected DLNA device. Double-check your device, server, and network settings." and then another message: "Something went wrong with plavback."


1) Try restarting both computers.

2) Try pressing the JRMC Play/Pause/Volume/Mute controls...

3) Please tell me exactly what you are trying to do: Are you a) trying to play a track from J. R. Media Center's own media library (the files local to the JRMC machine), or are you b) trying to play a track from SBS library (the files local to the SBS machine) that Whitebear is causing to show up in J. R. Media Center?

4) Turn on logging for HTTP Server in Whitebear, and capture the what happens when you do the Play To command. Open the log file and look for commands containing the string #SetAVTransportUri and #Play -- if you don't see such commands, then you have a firewall problem. Whereas if you do see such commands, please send me the log file.

I have tried 1 and 2 with no luck and will do 4 a little later when I have some more time.

As regards 3, it is option a) I am after. I want to play flac files from my MC library, residing on the MC PC, with no transcoding on my Squeezeboxes, preferably with all the "normal" info available on the Squeezeboxes. I was told this was possible.

AndrewFG
2011-11-13, 23:52
I want to play flac files from my MC library, residing on the MC PC, with no transcoding on my Squeezeboxes, preferably with all the "normal" info available on the Squeezeboxes. I was told this was possible.Yes, this is indeed possible. So please send me the log whenever convenient.

vagskal
2011-11-14, 06:21
4) Turn on logging for HTTP Server in Whitebear, and capture the what happens when you do the Play To command. Open the log file and look for commands containing the string #SetAVTransportUri and #Play -- if you don't see such commands, then you have a firewall problem. Whereas if you do see such commands, please send me the log file.

I got messages of the first kind but no #Play messages. Log attached.

Could it be a firewall problem then? In Windows Firewall on the PC running SBS I opened the TCP port reported for the DLNA server in MC settings for my local network with no luck. Media Center and Media Center Extenders are already automatically allowed for my local network in Windows firewall on the MC PC. Since this is all inside my local network I guess the firewall in my router is not involved at all.

EDIT: I deactivated Windows firewall on both PCs but MC would not send any music to SBS.

AndrewFG
2011-11-15, 00:24
I got messages of the first kind but no #Play messages. Log attached.

Could it be a firewall problem then? In Windows Firewall on the PC running SBS I opened the TCP port reported for the DLNA server in MC settings for my local network with no luck. Media Center and Media Center Extenders are already automatically allowed for my local network in Windows firewall on the MC PC. Since this is all inside my local network I guess the firewall in my router is not involved at all.

EDIT: I deactivated Windows firewall on both PCs but MC would not send any music to SBS.Hi vagskal,

The log you sent me shows absolutely zero evidence of any transactions going on between J. River Media Center and Whitebear. The log only shows transactions between Windows Media Player and Whitebear. Either 1) you captured the wrong log, 2) J. River Media Center is set up wrong, or 3) you have a firewall problem.

If it would be working, you would be seeing GET and POST requests from JRMC with the following User-Agent header. (Interesting side note: As you can see JRMC "masquerades" as a Microsoft Windows user-agent but nevertheless it makes itself clear that it is JRMC who is doing the talking. This is a common trick to avoid incompatibilities with M/S software...)


User-Agent: Microsoft-Windows-XP/2002, UPnP/1.1, J. River Internet Reader/2.0 (compatible; Windows-Media-Player/10)(A typical example of a correct transaction log is attached...)

vagskal
2011-11-15, 00:50
Either 1) you captured the wrong log, 2) J. River Media Center is set up wrong, or 3) you have a firewall problem.

OK. Thanks for investigating!

I think I will have to get back to the JRiver forum then. The log alternative was indeed the recommended one (HTTP Server) and the timestamps in the log and the fact that the log file keeps getting bigger show that it is a current log. Strange that it is not working when I disable Windows Firewall on both PCs, which is the only firewall inside my local network that I am aware of. But then again I had no idea that WMP somehow was awake and chatting with Whitebear.

If you come to think of anything else any hint would be appreciated.

AndrewFG
2011-11-15, 02:11
.. I had no idea that WMP somehow was awake and chatting with Whitebear.

If you come to think of anything else any hint would be appreciated.Following is just an idea...

As you know, Windows 7 and Windows Media Player 12 do have their own built in features for networked media sharing and playing; and it is perhaps just possible that those apps are somehow interfering with the sharing process between JRMC and Whitebear (??) so one suggestion is to look at:

1) Windows Control Panel Network Sharing options, and/or
2) Windows Media Player Streaming options

And check if there is anything in those settings that might be blocking your UPnP transactions.

Note: As far as I recall, the settings in Windows Control Panel and in Windows Media Player (and even in Winows Firewall) are often inter related; i.e. you can turn media sharing functions on/off via either or both applications; and it is sometimes quite confusing to find out what is going on. Also, in my experience once you have changed things in the Windows network, you may need to wait a long time before all the settings filter through to all apps and devices.

Also this may help: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/139310-media-streaming-using-windows-media-player-turn-off.html

vagskal
2011-11-15, 08:48
Thanks for your advice! Unfortunately I am having no luck with this.

I tried blocking just WMP. When that did not work, I tried to shut off media streaming in the control panel network settings and made sure that all WMP related functions were blocked in Windows Firewall advanced settings while all Media Center Extenders related functions, including UPnP, were allowed there for the local network. I waited at least half an hour between these steps, but no luck. I could not see in Windows Firewall advanced settings any other program except something called Network identification that mentioned UPnP.

One thing I noticed in the media streaming section of the control panel was that the icon representing WMP hade a green play button on it while the corresponding icons for MC and Whitebear (which showed just on of my four SB players in that list) did not have such play buttons.

I suppose using MC as a full feathered front end for the Squeezeboxes is not for me. Too bad. But thanks for trying to help out!

AndrewFG
2011-11-15, 11:31
I tried blocking just WMP.I don't think blocking things in WMP would help at all. I think the blocking has an impact similar to the firewall and tends to prevent UPnP traffic from getting through. Rather my suggestion was to UN-block stuff.

Perhaps one intermediate step, rather than playing around with JRMC, is to see if you can get things working inside WMP 12 itself. You should easily be able to Browse the Content Directory "Your Library (by Whitebear)" and you should be able to Play To "Your Player (by Whitebear)". The screenshots on http://www.whitebear.ch/mediaserver show how it looks. This works pretty much out-of-the box automatically...

Then if it does work with WMP 12, you know that the OS / firewall / networking / Microsoft / stuff is all fine, and the "only" remaining problem is JRMC. And if otherwise, we at least learned that JRMC is not the bad guy...

vagskal
2011-11-15, 12:15
You should easily be able to Browse the Content Directory "Your Library (by Whitebear)" and you should be able to Play To "Your Player (by Whitebear)".

Hmm. Do you mean that I have to first load my SBS library (by Whitebear) in MC to be able to use the Send to command?

What I want is to have the files on the MC PC sent for playback to my SBs in full quality and with the info displayed on my SBs that I am used to (as I said, I could point MC to the same files as SBS sees, if that would make things easier). I want to use MC, with all the info in the MC database and MC's powerful options for building playlists etc., as a front end for full quality playback on my SBs.

Earlier this year you tried to help me to load my rather large SBS library into MC but it never succeeded (import stalled or was at least too slow to use), and the files I got imported into MC showed not even all the info available in SBS. I think I remember that the Send to command in MC worked earlier this year for files in the MC library but then my flac files got transcoded and the info on the SBs looked like an internet radio station was played. Now I was told in the MC forum that full quality playback with all info available to SBS was possible when using the Send to command. That is why I wanted to try using Whitebear again.

Again, thanks for your kind help! I appreciate it a lot.

MrC
2011-11-15, 14:42
vagskal - don't give up. It does work fine, as we discussed over at Interact.

I think you're just stumbling on something that will turn out to be pretty minor.

I'm not sure where you are currently, or what your setup is, but I would do this:

1) shutdown MC and Whitebear
2) disable Windows firewall's on relevant systems
3) disable A/V software, ensuring that their network packet inspectors are out of the way
4) ensure WM* streaming is disabled
5) launch MC with DLNA enabled (just turn on Server/Renderer/Controller). Check the TCP port number. Restart MC if you've made changes - I don't know how quickly the server is updated - so be safe.
6) launch Whitebear, and check the Status page.

At this point, in a working system, you should see SB zone's appearing under Playing Now in MC.

AndrewFG
2011-11-16, 00:30
Hmm. Do you mean that I have to first load my SBS library (by Whitebear) in MC to be able to use the Send to command?Not particularly...

The world of UPnP Media (also called DLNA) comprises three elements:
i) DMS Digital Media Servers (libraries),
ii) DMR Digital Media Renderers (players), and
iii) CP Control Points -- which do two things a) Browse the DMS Content Directory, and b) play music to and otherwise control DMRs.

Whitebear represents your SBS library as a DMS, and it also represents each Squeeze player as a DMR. JRMC is has its own library (which it also represents as a DMS), it is a player via your PC's audio system (which it also represents as a DMR), and finally it is a CP too.

Basically (at least in theory) any CP can browse any DMS and play to any DMR interchangeably as follows:
A) JRMC can browse its own library and play to a Squeeze player DMR hosted by Whitebear.
B) JRMC can browse an SBS DMS library served by Whitebear and play to itself.
C) JRMC can browse an SBS DMS library served by Whitebear and play to a Squeeze player DMR served by Whitebear.


What I want is to have the files on the MC PC sent for playback to my SBs in full quality and with the info displayed on my SBs that I am used to Yes that is possible. That would be option A) above.


(as I said, I could point MC to the same files as SBS sees, if that would make things easier).It would not make things easier ;-)


I want to use MC, with all the info in the MC database and MC's powerful options for building playlists etc., as a front end for full quality playback on my SBs.You could do this either via option A) above or via option C) above. There are some benefits in using C) because it allows tighter integration of tag meta data between the library and the players, but A) also works if that is what you prefer.


Earlier this year you tried to help me to load my rather large SBS library into MC but it never succeeded (import stalled or was at least too slow to use), and the files I got imported into MC showed not even all the info available in SBS.How large is your library? Mine has 10k tracks and it takes about 30 minutes to load. However once JRMC has loaded it, it keeps a local database in cache so reloading is not needed. You only need to reload into JRMC when you have changed your SBS library, and most times this occurs automatically in the background anyway.


I think I remember that the Send to command in MC worked earlier this year for files in the MC library Ok, so we just need to work out what changed since then.


but then my flac files got transcoded and the info on the SBs looked like an internet radio station was played. Now I was told in the MC forum that full quality playback with all info available to SBS was possible when using the Send to command.In option A) above, Whitebear causes the playing track to show "TrackNr - Title - Album - Artist" (fixed format) and no AlbumArt. Whereas option C) provides tighter integration, so the player will show the meta data in whatever format you have selected in the Squeeze player settings, and it will also show the album art. This is why I recommend C) rather than A).

vagskal
2011-11-16, 01:04
Thanks guys for trying to help out!

MrC: I can already see the SB players and SBS library under Playing Now in MC, but the Send to command does not work. I have done almost all steps listed but will start over in the order you suggested. As for AV software I have NOD32 on the MC PC and MS Security Essentials on the SBS PC and those do not monitor local network traffic as far as I know.

What do you mean by check the TCP port in MC? I have not changed the default value.

Andrew: My library contains +120k files. I think our discussion on this was in your thread for the previous version. I could not get it to load fully in MC.

Thanks for explaining! It is definitely A I am after. I will have to accept the standard info shown on the players and the loss of cover art (and I guess the ability to see in iPeng additional info available in SBS about flies in the current playlist).

I have more metadata about the files in MC than in SBS and I want to use all metadata in MC when selecting files for playback on the SBs. In alt. C I suppose the info displayed on SB players will be the limited set if I do Send to from the MC library (not from the SBS library imported into MC).

vagskal
2011-11-16, 02:10
The TCP Port in MC is 52199

The HTTP server port in Whitebear is 31416

Should they be set to the same port?

vagskal
2011-11-16, 03:10
MrC, I tried your list of actions but had no luck. Here is how I disabled Windows media streaming on the MC PC running Win 7 (it is in Swedish, but I think you can figure out the options). I do not thing WMP is active on the Win XP PC running SBS. At least I could not find any options for media streaming in the control panel.

vagskal
2011-11-16, 03:15
Perhaps one intermediate step, rather than playing around with JRMC, is to see if you can get things working inside WMP 12 itself.

I am a bit concerned about what WMP can do with my music files if I let it lose. I had not installed WMP previously and got install screens when I started it to disable streaming also in there. As soon as WMP was started I could hear it churning away at the usb drive containing my music files, so I closed it as fast as I could after disabling streaming also there.

Is it safe to use WMP or is there a risk that WMP will alter my files or add redundant crappy cover art or other files among my music files?

AndrewFG
2011-11-16, 09:27
The TCP Port in MC is 52199

The HTTP server port in Whitebear is 31416

Should they be set to the same port?No!

AndrewFG
2011-11-16, 10:05
MrC: I can already see the SB players and SBS library under Playing Now in MC, but the Send to command does not work.Ok, this is interesting: it means that JRMC and Whitebear ARE already talking together pretty well. I assume the library and players appear as "Something (by Whitebear)" -- in which case this confirms three good things:

1) JRMC is successfully sending UPnP multicast search requests to Whitebear via UDP on port 1900
2) Whitebear is successfully sending UPnP unicast search responses to JRMC via whatever port that JRMC nominates in its search request
3) JRMC is successfully downloading Whitebear's device description document using HTTP GET commands from Whitebear's HTTP server on port 31416

So this basically confirms that your network is functioning quite well...

Now you say that the "only" thing that is not working are the Play To commands. Such commands are made by HTTP POST commands to Whitebear's HTTP server on port 31416. We already established in 3) above that HTTP GET commands are working fine between JRMC and Whitebear. The log file that you sent earlier contains many HTTP GET requests but no HTTP POST requests, so that evidence supports a hypothesis that HTTP GETs are getting through, but HTTP POSTs are not. There can only be two conclusions: either a) JRMC is not sending any HTTP POSTs for whatever reason (this is unlikely because of the evidence of other users), or b) something else is blocking HTTP POSTs. So who could be selectively passing HTTP GETs and blocking HTTP POSTs? Well, it can only be a firewall, an anti- virus suite, or the Windows TCP/IP stack itself. Over to you...


Andrew: My library contains +120k files. I think our discussion on this was in your thread for the previous version. I could not get it to load fully in MC.Wow! By analogy with my 10k tracks taking 30 minutes, that would mean that your 120k tracks would take 6 hours. But in principle I don't see any fundamental reasons why it should not work...

MrC
2011-11-16, 10:30
As for AV software I have NOD32 on the MC PC and MS Security Essentials on the SBS PC and those do not monitor local network traffic as far as I know.

Disable the A/V on both systems temporarily, as a test.

These packages DO monitor network traffic.

Verify your LAN's router settings too... You're looking to ensure POSTs are not being blocked.

You could use Wireshark on both systems to which system is preventing these requests.

AndrewFG - as for option (C), for us JRMC users with large libraries and/or lots of customization of views schemes, this option is a non-starter:

- The library initialization takes too long, whereby as albums are filling, before the album is complete, tracks appear as discrete tracks rather than an album. This causes issues with Album views.

- Having to recreate complex views and setup is very cumbersome and laborious.

- All music playback and usage/management of the main MC library is impossible. Thus, general music tagging and management cannot occur during music playback (exactly the time playback is desired!) :-)

AndrewFG
2011-11-16, 11:06
AndrewFG - as for option (C), for us JRMC users with large libraries and/or lots of customization of views schemes, this option is a non-starter:Ok, that's your choice.

I think the only issue with A) versus C) is that you won't get such a rich meta data display on the player UI, and no artwork either. Note: this is not the fault of Whitebear; but rather it is due to some weaknesses on the side of JRMC and SBS.

vagskal
2011-11-16, 11:11
But in principle I don't see any fundamental reasons why it should not work...

Well we could not get it to work earlier this year although I got extensive help from you starting about here in your previous announce thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82399&highlight=river&page=9

MrC
2011-11-16, 11:50
Ok, that's your choice.

I think the only issue with A) versus C) is that you won't get such a rich meta data display on the player UI, and no artwork either. Note: this is not the fault of Whitebear; but rather it is due to some weaknesses on the side of JRMC and SBS.

Yeah, understood. My intent wasn't to be critical, but rather mention the issues faced w/option (C). We realize this isn't due to Whitebear.

In reality, the loss of artwork is a minor concern for any SB connected to some remote HiFi system - it really can't be seen from any distance anyway. Meta-data would be nice, but oh well. On a Touch, I find the display too small. (The Touch is such an odd child).

Again, thanks for your Whitebear contribution and continued support.

vagskal
2011-11-16, 11:55
Disable the A/V on both systems temporarily, as a test.

These packages DO monitor network traffic.

Verify your LAN's router settings too... You're looking to ensure POSTs are not being blocked.

You could use Wireshark on both systems to which system is preventing these requests.

I disabled AV on both PCs (on the SBS PC where I run MS Security Essentials I could only find an option to disable real-time protection) as well as the Windows Firewall on both PCs with no luck.

I had a look in the settings for my router (Netgear). UPnP is turned on, but there were no entries in something called UPnP Portmap Table. I even tried Port Forwarding port 31416 (TCP) to the local ip address of my SBS PC with no luck.

I downloaded Wireshark, but I do not know how to use it... I looked at the How to setup a capture, and the shark is capturing something (I installed it only on the MC PC as yet), but I have no idea what to look for.

MrC
2011-11-16, 12:17
You can start the capture, and enter "http" in the Filter area and click Apply. This will filter to show only HTTP activity. Refresh some web page on the system and you'll see GETs. As AndrewFG mentioned, you're looking for POST traffic, in these two scenarios (from AndrewFG's post earlier):

a) JRMC is not sending any HTTP POSTs for whatever reason (this is unlikely because of the evidence of other users)

So, run wireshark on the JRMC station, looking for POST traffic from the JRMC system to the Whitebear system (verify the src/dst IPs if you see POST traffic). If you see POSTs from MC, (a) is not the issue (this was already mentioned as being unlikely).

b) something else is blocking HTTP POSTs. So who could be selectively passing HTTP GETs and blocking HTTP POSTs? Well, it can only be a firewall, an anti- virus suite, or the Windows TCP/IP stack itself. Over to you...

If I recall your setup, your SB/Whitebear system is on another system. Run wireshark on this system, looking for POST HTTP traffic. If you see it, this would indicate some software on this system is blocking the traffic.

AndrewFG
2011-11-16, 15:26
... but I have no idea what to look for.Hey vagskal, are you REALLY sure that the log you sent me is representative? If you happened to capture the wrong part of the transactions, you may indeed have missed any transactions containing HTTP POST requests. And in which case, you (we) are chasing the wrong problem. Messing around with WireShark is not for the faint hearted. So perhaps it is worthwhile for you to try once more to do a log on Whitebear's Http Server before you really dive into WireShark in detail...

AndrewFG
2011-11-17, 00:24
Hey vagskal, are you REALLY sure that the log you sent me is representative? If you happened to capture the wrong part of the transactions, you may indeed have missed any transactions containing HTTP POST requests. And in which case, you (we) are chasing the wrong problem. Messing around with WireShark is not for the faint hearted. So perhaps it is worthwhile for you to try once more to do a log on Whitebear's Http Server before you really dive into WireShark in detail...

Edit: Indeed, I am really embarassed to admit that I was just doing some tests with JRMC and Whitebear using option A) and I did find a bug in Whitebear that would prevent it from working for you. I am soooo sorry about this, because I fear that I have been wasting your time these last few days. I will send you a PM with a link where you can get the fixed version. Please test it and let me know if it works. Again I am really sorry if I have been messing you around....

MrC
2011-11-17, 00:57
Good find. Can you briefly describe why mode (A) works for me, and not for vagskal?

vagskal
2011-11-17, 01:28
Good find. Can you briefly describe why mode (A) works for me, and not for vagskal?

Are you not using MC and SBS on the same PC?

vagskal
2011-11-17, 01:34
Edit: Indeed, I am really embarassed to admit that I was just doing some tests with JRMC and Whitebear using option A) and I did find a bug in Whitebear that would prevent it from working for you. I am soooo sorry about this, because I fear that I have been wasting your time these last few days. I will send you a PM with a link where you can get the fixed version. Please test it and let me know if it works. Again I am really sorry if I have been messing you around....

No problem. You got a bug ironed out and I got extensive support from no less than two well meaning experts and in the process I finally got WMP completely shut off and I found a Shark!

I will try out the fixed version.

AndrewFG
2011-11-17, 02:25
Good find. Can you briefly describe why mode (A) works for me, and not for vagskal?It depends on the audio format you are asking JRMC to send when it does a "Play To" command to Whitebear. Most formats (mp3, wav, flac etc.) would work Ok, but if JRMC is set up to deliver raw pcm (L16) then it would not work...

vagskal
2011-11-17, 04:19
I am afraid it still does not work with the fixed version. The result is the same as before. With media streaming disabled on the MC PC there is nothing in the Whitebear log. I enabled Media streaming and then there are entries in the log.

AndrewFG
2011-11-17, 04:35
I am afraid it still does not work with the fixed version. The result is the same as before.Aaargh! This probably means that the problem is indeed after all a firewall, or a/v issue (HTTP POSTs being blocked). The other bug that I found in Whitebear was probably therefore a side show...


With media streaming disabled on the MC PC there is nothing in the Whitebear log. I enabled Media streaming and then there are entries in the log.Yes, that is what I meant earlier about WMP12 interfering with network communications. But anyway can you please send me again the log with the entries in it? (I will send you another PM with an e-mail address where you can send it to. This way you can capture a whole session, and not worry about the size of the log file getting too large.

vagskal
2011-11-17, 04:38
So, run wireshark on the JRMC station, looking for POST traffic from the JRMC system to the Whitebear system (verify the src/dst IPs if you see POST traffic). If you see POSTs from MC, (a) is not the issue (this was already mentioned as being unlikely).


Hmm. The sender is 192.168.1.3 (which is the internal IP of my MC PC), but the destination is 195.24.232.205 (the internal IP of my SBS PC is 192.168.1.101).

EDITed typos.

AndrewFG
2011-11-17, 04:52
The sender is 192.168.1.3 (which is the internal IP of my MC PC), but the destination is 195.24.232.205 (the internal IP of my SBS PC is 192.168.1.101).Hmm. That sounds like it could be a routing problem then. Do any of your PCs have a second network card attached? Note: this could include things like a TV tuner, or even something on a USB port. Also what is your network topology? Is it pure flat Ethernet or do you have WiFi or PowerLine branches or bridges? Perhaps a screenshot from the Windows Network and Sharing center showing your topology might help us here...

vagskal
2011-11-17, 05:02
Hmm. That sounds like it could be a routing problem then. Do any of your PCs have a second network card attached? Note: this could include things like a TV tuner, or even something on a USB port. Also what is your network topology? Is it pure flat Ethernet or do you have WiFi or PowerLine branches or bridges? Perhaps a screenshot from the Windows Network and Sharing center showing your topology might help us here...

The topology is a bit complex... (=> indicates Ethernet except between the PowerLine devices)

Internet => Router with WiFi => SBS PC
The same Router with WiFi => Switch => MC PC
Same Switch => Access Point for WiFi
Same Switch => PowerLine => PowerLine => SB Reciever
Laptops, iPad and iPod are connected via WiFi

And that is about it. No TV tuner.

Just to test, I switched off the Access Point. No luck.

Thanks for trying to help out!

MrC
2011-11-17, 10:42
Hmm. The sender is 192.168.1.3 (which is the internal IP of my MC PC), but the destination is 195.24.232.205 (the internal IP of my SBS PC is 192.168.1.101).


The 195.24.232.205 is last.fm. Probably this is not the correct packet, but is an update from your system to last.fm.

AndrewFG
2011-11-17, 10:54
Hmm. The sender is 192.168.1.3 (which is the internal IP of my MC PC), but the destination is 195.24.232.205 (the internal IP of my SBS PC is 192.168.1.101)I got your WireShark log thank you. The POST to 195.24.232.205 is nothing to do with either JRMC nor Whitebear, so the ensuing discussion about it is in fact irrelevant. Your capture shows zero HTTP POST transactions on the wire between JRMC and Whitebear.

I also got your Whitebear log (thank you again). It also shows zero HTTP POST transactions being received by Whitebear.

Summary: based on these two logs, there is nothing going over the wire, and there is nothing being received by Whitebear. So (as I said before) either a) JRMC is not sending anything, or b) the computer on which JRMC is running has some software running on it that is blocking JRMC's traffic and preventing it from getting on the wire.

The only things that I can suggest now is:

1) Talk to JRMC people to see is there is any way to log what JRMC is trying to send out, and what happens in the process.

2) Turn OFF off all potential wire traffic blockers; be they a/v programs, firewall programs, internet security programs, traffic monitors, filters, you name it. And turn ON all streaming and sharing options in WMP12 and Windows. And try again. STRONG WARNING: whilst you are doing all this, please unplug your cable modem from the external network!!

MrC
2011-11-17, 10:58
The topology is a bit complex... (=> indicates Ethernet except between the PowerLine devices)

Internet => Router with WiFi => SBS PC
The same Router with WiFi => Switch => MC PC
Same Switch => Access Point for WiFi
Same Switch => PowerLine => PowerLine => SB Reciever
Laptops, iPad and iPod are connected via WiFi


Is the SB Receiver on the same 192.168.1/24 net as the other systems? I presume it is. You might want to set your wireshark filter to:

ip.addr == 192.168.1.0/24 and http

to capture only http traffic on this network.

The switches are essentially no-ops here. The relevant network appears to be a single net. It seems all the devices are on the 192.168.1/24 network, correct?

If you're uncertain about the PowerLine adapters, you could move the Receiver to the switch.

Still, only smarter devices (i.e. not the layer 2 switch) would block POST packets, but not others.

MrC
2011-11-17, 11:09
1) Talk to JRMC people to see is there is any way to log what JRMC is trying to send out, and what happens in the process.

I'm now having the same problem. We can now do a full stop, and focus on JRMC. This is recent breakage, as I tested it the other day when I first replied to vagskal over at Interact. I'll narrow down which version and report back.

MrC
2011-11-17, 11:21
I'm now having the same problem. We can now do a full stop, and focus on JRMC. This is recent breakage, as I tested it the other day when I first replied to vagskal over at Interact. I'll narrow down which version and report back.

This broke in version 17.0.29. I'll report to JR.

vagskal
2011-11-17, 16:40
Thanks Guys! I guess you isolated the issue. I hope JRiver can mend whatever was broken.

vagskal
2011-11-18, 11:52
JRiver fixed it in a beta release that is not public yet!

Do you know if Replay Gain data in MC is used for SB playback. The tracks I have tried so far is played significantly louder than normal on my SB players.

I also noticed that the progress bar in MC is not following the progress of the SB playback (not a big deal; I just wanted to know if this is a known issue). And the playlist/single track sent from MC to SBS is repeated on my SB players (no, repeat in SBS is turned off).

Thanks again guys!

MrC
2011-11-18, 12:28
JRiver fixed it in a beta release that is not public yet!

Do you know if Replay Gain data in MC is used for SB playback. The tracks I have tried so far is played significantly louder than normal on my SB players.

I also noticed that the progress bar in MC is not following the progress of the SB playback (not a big deal; I just wanted to know if this is a known issue). And the playlist/single track sent from MC to SBS is repeated on my SB players (no, repeat in SBS is turned off).

Thanks again guys!

I don't believe that RG values are applied. For DNLA, MC's DSP Studio is not used, and I don't think they are applied by SB when the FLAC is streamed.

For the progress bar, be sure to select the SB zone under Playing Now in SB. Each zone has its own playlist, and controls/status updates follow the selected zone. The new Overview mode will make this easier to see. Just Show the SB zone, and click the zone to switch status updates to that zone.

Repeat settings are set on MC, not SB, in this usage. Select the SB zone to control Repeat settings. [Edited wrt. AndrewFG's comment below]

Glad this is working for you. What an unfortunate coincidence that it happened to break in the build just after I indicated it was working!

AndrewFG
2011-11-18, 13:01
JRiver fixed it in a beta release that is not public yet!I am delighted to hear this!


Do you know if Replay Gain data in MC is used for SB playback. The tracks I have tried so far is played significantly louder than normal on my SB players.If JRMC is delivering a transcoded stream, then the replay gain data is almost certainly not included in the stream. On the other hand if JRMC is delivering a native stream (e.g. a native MP3 file) then the embedded meta data will still be there. But I don't know whether SBS is able to parse or use the replay gain settings from embedded meta data in on-the-fly streams. I suspect it is not...


I also noticed that the progress bar in MC is not following the progress of the SB playback (not a big deal; I just wanted to know if this is a known issue).I am using JRMC v16 and the position info is updated just fine when streaming (say) a wav file as pcm to a Squeezeplayer. Therefore given the past history on this thread, you can perhaps understand my reluctance to rush in and try to fix a "problem" in Whitebear that might finally turn out to be due to some bug in a beta version of JRMC. But anyway please tell me what kind of files are you streaming, and in what format?


And the playlist/single track sent from MC to SBS is repeated on my SB players (no, repeat in SBS is turned off)On JRMC v16 this also works fine. (Same comment as above). Obviously too, even if repeat is turned off in SBS, if it is on in JRMC, the track will be repeated anyway...

AndrewFG
2011-11-18, 13:08
Repeat settings are set on MC, not SB, in this usage.Not 100% true.
- If repeat is on in JRMC, then JRMC repeatedly sends the "play this track" command to the player.
- If repeat is off in JRMC, then JRMC sends one single "play this track" command, but if repeat is on in SBS, then SBS will itself repeat that track thereafter...

vagskal
2011-11-19, 03:21
But I don't know whether SBS is able to parse or use the replay gain settings from embedded meta data in on-the-fly streams. I suspect it is not...

No, it is definitely not. Too bad. I have set MC to Never convert and Encoder: Uncompressed.

I guess there is no way to change the volume on the SB players in MC.


But anyway please tell me what kind of files are you streaming, and in what format?

It was with uncompressed flacs, but I got movement now so it seems to have fixed itself.


Obviously too, even if repeat is turned off in SBS, if it is on in JRMC, the track will be repeated anyway...

I noticed... Sorry.

AndrewFG
2011-11-19, 04:33
I guess there is no way to change the volume on the SB players in MC.Of course there is! JRMC has a volume slider and mute button under the player controls.

vagskal
2011-11-19, 04:51
Of course there is! JRMC has a volume slider and mute button under the player controls.

In that case I have to consider removing the 100% volume setting I have for 2 of my 4 SB players (and use the SB DAC for all players) and switch on sync player volume

AndrewFG
2011-11-19, 05:52
I have just published a minor update of Whitebear (v2.2.1.2162) that incorporates some learnings from this thread.

Wigster
2011-11-19, 09:10
Hi AndrewFG,

So I have finally had a bit of time to investigate my problems further

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90842&page=2

Just to remind you:

SBS 7.6.2 r33593 on WHS. I'm accessing it from WMP-12 on Win7 x64. Whitebear is version 2.2.1.2161


Hi Wigster,

Yes indeed that does look very odd; basically Whitebear just acts as an intermediary between the client (in your case WMP) and Squeezebox Server. So I think the first thing you should check is whether the same "track" also appears in the Squeezebox web UI. This might give some hint about whate the track is, and why it appears in the library.

I have looked more closely. In addition to all the strange files with Unknown artists whose titles are various elements of HTML mark-up "span>", "quant.js',true)" , "p>" etc, I also have a lot of doubled files. My SBS reports 15 299 files in its library, whereas WMP (after resetting and redownloading the Whitebear-served library) reports 23 163 files (so about every other file appears twice, and about 300 are these weird unknown files).

Taking one of those duplicated files, the path is WMP appears as


http://192.168.1.2:31416/tid_157953/src_mp3/tgt_mp3/pid_1/music.mp3?WMContentFeatures=DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.O RG_OP=01;DLNA.ORG_CI=0;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=010000000000 00000000000000000000&WMHME=1&WMHMETitle=UABpAG8AbgBlAGUAcgAgAHQAbwAgAHQAaABlACA ARgBhAGwAbABzAA==
whereas for the other


http://192.168.1.2:31416/tid_157953/src_mp3/tgt_mp3/pid_1/music.mp3?WMContentFeatures=DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.O RG_OP=01;DLNA.ORG_CI=0;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=010000000000 00000000000000000000&WMHME=1&WMHMETitle=UABpAG8AbgBlAGUAcgAgAHQAbwAgAHQAaABlACA ARgBhAGwAbABzAA==


So they both appear the same.

A couple of screenshots can be found here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15242944/WB.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15242944/WB_2.PNG

The SBS library does not have these problems. Here is the output of searching for one of the albums in the WMP screenshot:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15242944/WB_3.PNG

Any ideas?

AndrewFG
2011-11-19, 10:00
So they both appear the same.I am guessing that the duplication is due to WMP 12 cache being in a mess.

You can clear the WMP 12 cache as follows:

1) In Windows Services select Windows Media Streaming and Stop the service (if it is running)
2) In Windows Explorer browse to C:\Users\[YourName]\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Media Player and delete all the files in that (cache) folder.
3) Restart the Windows Media Streaming service

I don't know why WMP 12 is showing HTML tags in your tracks. Certainly Whitebear is not capable of making up such tags. My assumption is still that the tags are being delivered by SBS or one of its plug ins. We could verify that if you can turn on logging on the Http Server in Whitebear and send me (part of) the results (search the log file an if you see something like this embedded HTML send me that bit).

Wigster
2011-11-19, 10:40
Well, I wiped the cache last week, but I'll try again.

I just tried searching the HTTP server logs and nothing like these strings appears. I tried playing them, etc.

AndrewFG
2011-11-19, 11:33
I just tried searching the HTTP server logs and nothing like these strings appears.So if Whitebear is not sending those strings, then either WMP 12 is inventing them or some other UPnP library is providing them. Or ??

Wigster
2011-11-19, 12:01
I've just recreated the cache, and the new library is again being populated with dupes too.

How would I know if two Whitebears are running? It would appear in the task list, wouldn't it? There is only one WB there right now.

All the sharing services on the WHS are disabled. There isn't a UPnP server running in 7.6.2, AFAIK. I have a bunch of plugins, but nothing strange.

(edit) Well: if I shut down WB, the library disappears, so it's definitely not being generated by a different process...

MrC
2011-11-19, 13:11
I haven't said thanks recently, so I sent you €30.00 EUR. Enjoy dinner on me. Thanks.

Wigster
2011-11-20, 04:40
Hi,

So I've set up a UPnP browser in foobar2000 and it seems that the library the WB serves is fine: no dupes and no weird HTML markup fragments.

The question now is why is WMP doing this? I've erased the cache, I've refreshed the library, and it's always like that.

It also takes about an hour to download the full library: is that normal behaviour? My library is about 15000 tracks.

[Edit] It seems this is a frequent problem

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-sound/wmp12-upnp-client-shows-duplicated-songs/9d0c77c9-9ff1-4fe8-9768-62d4b5851ee1

AndrewFG
2011-11-20, 06:20
I haven't said thanks recently, so I sent you €30.00 EUR. Enjoy dinner on me. Thanks.Brilliant !! Thank you.

AndrewFG
2011-11-20, 07:53
It also takes about an hour to download the full library: is that normal behaviour? My library is about 15000 tracks.It takes 25 minutes for just under 10k tracks in my case, so this does sound a bit on the slow side. Note: The chain is WMP -> Whitebear -> SBS, where the slowest link is SBS and this itself is limited by your CPU capacity...


The question now is why is WMP doing this? I've erased the cache, I've refreshed the library, and it's always like that.Well, take a deep breath, the following gets technical...

The browsing of a Digital Media Server (music library) is handled by a UPnP Service called ContentDirectory; this Service supports two Actions called Browse and Search. The Browse Action is a hierarchical tree based browsing structure having nested branches (like Artists, Genres, Albums) that finally ends up with leaves (i.e. the tracks). And the Search Action is a database query ("give me all tracks where the artist name is Fred").

Some Control Points (such as FooBar) use the Browse Action. This means that the ContentDirectory browse tree exactly follows the structure that is hardwired in Whitebear respectively in SBS. Here you would only get track duplication if the track is really physically duplicated in the SBS database (but in that case each track would still have a different Url).

Other Control Points (such as J. River Media Center) use the Search Action ("give me all items that are music tracks") and the Control Point builds itself a local database (cache) of the respective tracks. The Control Point sorts and structures its database locally according to the meta data tags that Whitebear/SBS provide along with the track concerned. So it may indeed (if it so wishes) create a duplicate entry in its local cache for a single downloaded track based on its its own local rules.

Now Windows Media Player 12 is really a special beast. (Of course...) It prefers to use the Search Action. So normally it behaves as J. River Media Center does. But if the Search Action fails it falls back to using the Browse Action and then uses this Action to actively iterate through all branches of the Whitebear/SBS browse tree and add the respective track its local database. Normally WMP12 makes one Search request, and if that request succeeds it continues to download the whole library using the Search Action, however if the first Search fails, it then switches over to using the Browse Action.

Now, my speculation is that in your case, WMP 12 may be starting the download of your library using the Search Action, and then for some reason, one of the Search requests may be failing, and it then switches over to using the Browse Action whereupon it re-does the whole download again. The 60 minutes for downloading 15k tracks, compared to 25 minutes for downloading my 10k tracks, supports the hypothesis that half your library is being downloaded using the Search Action, and then the full library is being downloaded again using the Browse Action. In other words, it may be that your library is being downloaded one-and-a-half times; and this might well lead to WMP 12 having duplicate entries for the half of your library that was downloaded twice.

How to check this hypothesis? Well I will need a log from Whitebear in which logging is turned on for both the Http Server, and for the Squeezebox CLI commands, so that I can identify if 1) there is a Search Action request that fails, and 2) that it switches over to Browse, and 3) if so, why.

I estimate that a log for a full download of 15k tracks will be around 100 MBytes in size; which is clearly too big to post here or send by mail. Do you have access to a web server where you can put such a log file? If so please send me (by PM) a link where I can download it. If not then you will need to open the log file in Notepad (it may take Notepad 15 minutes or more to just even open such a file) and then search for the string #Browse (including the leading hash sign), if you find a #Browse, search backwards from that #Browse to find the last instance of #Search before it, and then copy everything between the last #Search and the first #Browse (plus a page on either side to be on the safe side).

Wigster
2011-11-21, 15:55
My server is an Atom machine, so it is slow. I guess that's probably fine then. I didn't realise that the CPU intensive part was on the side of Whitebear and not the WMP client.

OK, I have deleted the WMP cache again and logged the whole process of creating a new one. It's about 67 Mb zipped up to 7. I have put it on my public dropbox, I'll PM you the details.

If you want to search for an album with dupes (it is always that either all the tracks in a album are duped, or none is), search for anything by the Concretes. All their three albums are duped in the UPnP library in WMP.

Another thing I have noticed: when I try to render m4a files on the Squeezebox which are either local on the DLNA controller machine or being served by WB, they in fact are stuck on repeat: the tracks never progress by loop, until I press the next track button. Other file formats are perfectly fine.

Thanks!

AndrewFG
2011-11-22, 05:19
I didn't realise that the CPU intensive part was on the side of Whitebear and not the WMP client.It is not Whitbebear who uses the CPU cycles; the CPU intensive part is the Squeezebox Server database search machine.


OK, I have deleted the WMP cache again and logged the whole process of creating a new one. It's about 67 Mb zipped up to 7. I have put it on my public dropbox, I'll PM you the details.Thanks. I got your PM. I will report back later...


when I try to render m4a files on the Squeezebox which are either local on the DLNA controller machine or being served by WB, they in fact are stuck on repeat: the tracks never progress by loop, until I press the next track button.Let me confirm that I fully understand what you mean by "local on the DLNA controller machine or being served by Whitebear"? Do you mean tracks that show up in WMP 12, either under its local library browse tree, or under the "Something (by Whitebear)" browse tree?

Wigster
2011-11-22, 06:30
Let me confirm that I fully understand what you mean by "local on the DLNA controller machine or being served by Whitebear"? Do you mean tracks that show up in WMP 12, either under its local library browse tree, or under the "Something (by Whitebear)" browse tree?

Yes: whether I try to play to the Squeezebox (3, so no native AAC support) files in WMP's own library or the library being served by Whitebear the tracks repeat and do not move onto the next one in the playlist.

AndrewFG
2011-11-22, 14:38
Yes: whether I try to play to the Squeezebox (3, so no native AAC support) files in WMP's own library or the library being served by Whitebear the tracks repeat and do not move onto the next one in the playlist.I will look into this.

AndrewFG
2011-11-22, 14:50
I have deleted the WMP cache again and logged the whole process of creating a new one. It's about 67 Mb zipped up to 7. I have put it on my public dropbox, I'll PM you the details.I have examined your log file, and I can confirm that it is indeed the case that about half way through the log, the transactions between WMP 12 and Whitebear switch over from using UPnP the Search Action to using the UPnP Browse Action. This alone is sufficient to explain your duplications.

However I have still not determined _why_ WMP 12 is switching from Search to Browse. There are no HTTP error messages being reported; so Whitebear is clearly understanding the queries from WMP 12. But nevertheless there is obviously something in the XML that causes WMP 12 to fail.

It could be that your tag meta data contains "forbidden" control characters, or that the character encoding is perhaps not proper. It is very hard to detect such errors just by visually reading the log file, so I will need to write a test program to scan your log file looking for "bad stuff" -- this will take me a while to do...

Wigster
2011-11-22, 15:36
Sorry to hear it's not simple!

Please let me know if there is anything that I can help out with!

Iggy

AndrewFG
2011-11-26, 03:32
Sorry to hear it's not simple!

Please let me know if there is anything that I can help out with!

IggyHi Wigster,

I discovered that some of the tag meta data in your music library contains characters with invalid unicode codes.

This was probably what was causing Windows Media Player to fail and switch over from using ContentDirectory:Search to using ContentDirectory:Browse.

This may also explain why Windows Media Player was showing HTML in the tags.

So I have made a modified test version of Whitebear that replaces such invalid characters with a "?".

I have sent you a PM with a URL where you can download the test version, and I would be very grateful if you could report your findings.

Wigster
2011-11-28, 03:10
Hi Andrew,

The new version indeed no longer has duplicates, so you seem to have nailed that problem. The strange HTML fragments are still there though.

I've PMed you with a new log file.

Thanks!

AndrewFG
2011-11-28, 07:13
I've PMed you with a new log file.I got your PM thanks, and I sent you four PM responses to it :-)

AndrewFG
2011-12-01, 09:24
I got your PM thanks, and I sent you four PM responses to it :-)Hi Wigster, I think I found out what is going on. I sent you yet another PM today :-)

AndrewFG
2011-12-10, 05:54
I just posted a new version that fixes some of the issues raised so far in this thread.

)p(
2011-12-23, 01:07
Hi Andrew,

I read above that when using the jrmc library whitebear is not able to show artwork. That answers my question. But I wonder is it really not possible? Because when I choose for my touch in jrmc the dlna client provided by lms instead of the one provided by whitebear it will show artwork on my touch. Unfortunately using the lms client is much less stable then the one provided by Whitebear.

AndrewFG
2011-12-23, 11:02
I read above that when using the jrmc library whitebear is not able to show artwork.Whitebear is perefectly able to supply artwork for JRMC. (Certainly it works perfectly with me with JRMC v16). Did you yourself try JRMC and encounter problems with Whitebear? Or are you just reading between the lines of what somebody else said here?

)p(
2011-12-23, 14:41
Whitebear is perefectly able to supply artwork for JRMC. (Certainly it works perfectly with me with JRMC v16). Did you yourself try JRMC and encounter problems with Whitebear? Or are you just reading between the lines of what somebody else said here?

I did try jrmc with both lms and white bear:

a) jrmc dlna server > touch as client (renderer) provided by lms > artwork on touch / but stops after a few songs
b) jrmc dlna server > touch as client (renderer) provided by whitebear > no artwork on touch but plays the whole playlist correctly

AndrewFG
2011-12-24, 10:26
b) jrmc dlna server > touch as client (renderer) provided by whitebear > no artwork on touch but plays the whole playlist correctly

Ok. Now I understand you.

There are the four following possible combinations of music source, control point and renderer:

A) Using JRMC to Browse some local library (NOT by Whitebear), and Play locally on JRMC
B) Using JRMC to Browse your Squeezebox Library (by Whitebear), and Play locally on JRMC
C) Using JRMC to Browse your Squeezebox Library (by Whitebear), and Play To a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear)
D) Using JRMC to Browse some local library (NOT by Whitebear), and Play To a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear)

Case A) has nothing to do with Whitebear, so we can ignore this case.
Case B) shows the Artwork in JRMC without any problem.
Case C) shows the Artwork in JRMC and also on the SqueezePlayer without any problem.
Case D) can only show the Artwork on the SqueezePlayer if the Artwork is embedded within the source file stream.

From what you say, you are referring to case D). => Is that correct?

)p(
2011-12-24, 11:37
Ok. Now I understand you.


From what you say, you are referring to case D). => Is that correct?

Correct. The jrmc library. Using Play To a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear) no artwork. Using Play To a SqueezePlayer (by LMS) yes artwork.

So there seems to be slight difference how lms and whitebear handle the artwork when they play to a sqeeuzeplayer as a renderer.

It would be great if whitebear could also handle nonembedded artwork like lms. But its not a big issue. I can embed them. Its way more important that whitebear seems way more stable in going from song to the next song then lms.

AndrewFG
2011-12-25, 06:18
So there seems to be slight difference how lms and whitebear handle the artwork when they play to a sqeeuzeplayer as a renderer.Correct.

The reason is that Whitebear is a stand alone external application, that can only talk to SBS/LMS via its open public interface, and this interface has no command for displaying album art when playing tracks from a third party (non SBS/Whitebear) server. On the other hand the LMS DLNA plug-in is installed as an integrated internal part of the server code, and it can therefore use proprietary function calls to access the internal server code and thus can display album art for third party tracks.

In theory I could also create a plug-in that would enable Whitebear to access the proprietary internal server code, but to be honest it is not that high on my to-do list (sorry).

Aztek
2011-12-25, 16:52
Installed onto my low spec Win 7 desktop running Squeezeboxserver v7.4.1. Runs fine through my WDTVLive box and my PS3. Only thing I noticed was that the first 10 seconds of the first .flac file stuttered. After that initial stutter - that file and all following .flac files in that album played flawlessly. No probs with mp3's.

Nice job. Keep up the good work.

Merry Xmas
Mike

AndrewFG
2011-12-26, 05:58
... my low spec Win 7 desktop
... the first 10 seconds of the first .flac file stuttered. After that initial stutter - that file and all following .flac files in that album played flawlessly.The former would probably explain the latter...

Probably either your renderer or your control point don't support flac natively and this thus requires transcoding into raw pcm (pcm is the baseline lossless format that all UPnP/DLNA devices have to support). The first play of the first flac track has to load up the transcoder application image before doing the actual transcoding, and this consumes a bit more resources. Whereas for subsequent plays, the transcoder application image is already "warm loaded", so it will get going faster.

In other words, you are quite close to the borderline of what your PC can handle, so you may want to try stopping other non essential applications when you want to play music.

AndrewFG
2011-12-26, 06:01
Correct. The jrmc library. Using Play To a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear) no artwork.Hi )p(

Can you please let me know what track format are you Playing To the Squeezeplayer?
Is JRMC set to "always convert" or "don't convert" to mp3 or alternatively to raw/l16/pcm (lossless)?

)p(
2011-12-26, 09:10
Hi )p(

Can you please let me know what track format are you Playing To the Squeezeplayer?
Is JRMC set to "always convert" or "don't convert" to mp3 or alternatively to raw/l16/pcm (lossless)?

Hi Andrew,

JRMC is set to "never convert" for audio. I only send flac and mp3 to the squeezebox devices from jrmc.

AndrewFG
2011-12-26, 09:56
JRMC is set to "never convert" for audio. I only send flac and mp3 to the squeezebox devices from jrmc.Do your flac or mp3 tracks actually contain the album art embedded as tags in the files themselves? Or do you have something like a "cover.jpg" file located in your album folders?

)p(
2011-12-26, 10:16
Do your flac or mp3 tracks actually contain the album art embedded as tags in the files themselves? Or do you have something like a "cover.jpg" file located in your album folders?

Some may have embedded ones but they all have them as separate files. That is what I have jrmc set to when importing artwork. They are put by jrmc in the album folder with the music files as "Folder.jpg".

UPDATE: I embedded a cover for a flac album in the individual files and it did also not show on the touch with whitebear.
UPDATED2: I embedded some mp3 and they work when embedded. Also I have to investigate further but its seems like whitebear won't play files from jrmcs library that are on a shared drive accessed by a shared drive letter. (I have some music in d:\music that is referenced in the jrmc library as x:\ It works when I add it to the library as \\SERVER\music\ )

AndrewFG
2011-12-28, 16:34
UPDATE: I embedded a cover for a flac album in the individual files and it did also not show on the touch with whitebear.
UPDATED2: I embedded some mp3 and they work when embedded.Good news! This is a very interesting observation! Thank you.

Obviously when JRMC is streaming MP3 files (mediated by Whitebear) to a Squeezeplayer, it is sending the original file, which includes the embedded native ID3v2 tags. And in such cases it seems SBS is able to parse the ID3v2 tags on the fly and update its player meta data including album art.

But apparently when JRMC is streaming FLAC files (mediated by Whitebear) to a Squeezeplayer, something is going amiss. There could be two possible things going on:

1) JRMC may be transcoding the FLACs, and streaming them in PCM form to Whitebear, and then Whitebear may be trancoding them back to FLAC for SBS and the player. (I know this sounds odd. Don't ask.) But anyway in this case it would be no big surprise that the PCM file would have no metadata in it, and so meta data (including art) would/could not be supplied further to the player.

or,

2) JRMC may be sending the FLACs as they are, including their embedded native FLAC tags. But perhaps SBS may not able to read the FLAC tags on the fly in the same way that it can read ID3v2 tags.

As mentioned before, in LMS own UPnP/DLNA implementation they built in an internal special protocol handler within the plug-in that can handle both cases 1) and 2) -- but unfortunately I am not able to go down that road with Whitebear.

However I think I may have found an alternate way for Whitebear to restore the missing meta data (including art) by using ICY tags. This should work at least for the case 1) and it might even work for case 2). However before I proceed with developing code, it would certainly help me to know which of case 1) or 2) is actually happening in your case. => Could you please turn on logging of "Http Server" in Whitebear, and record what happens when you do a "Play To" command from JRMC?


Also I have to investigate further but its seems like Whitebear won't play files from jrmcs library that are on a shared drive accessed by a shared drive letter. (I have some music in d:\music that is referenced in the jrmc library as x:\ It works when I add it to the library as \\SERVER\music\ )This sounds like a problem in JRMC, and not in Whitebear. But again, if you do a log of "Http Server" in Whitebear for such a (failed) transaction, I may be able to say more about this after.

)p(
2011-12-29, 01:07
Good news! This is a very interesting observation! Could you please turn on logging of "Http Server" in Whitebear, and record what happens when you do a "Play To" command from JRMC?

Ok here are some logs. just let me know if you need more.

1) mp3 with folder.jpg artwork. No artwork on sbtouch.
http://www.i-modernist.com/temp/whitebear mp3 folder.txt

2) flac with folder.jpg artwork. No artwork on sbtouch.
http://www.i-modernist.com/temp/whitebear flac folder.txt

3) flac with embedded artwork. No artwork on sbtouch.
http://www.i-modernist.com/temp/whitebear flac inside.txt

note: flac plays ok but the progress bar in jrmc keeps jumping back to zero.



This sounds like a problem in JRMC, and not in Whitebear. But again, if you do a log of "Http Server" in Whitebear for such a (failed) transaction, I may be able to say more about this after.

Playing mp3 with embedded artwork with network path set to x: from original local d: does not work:
http://www.i-modernist.com/temp/whitebear network path.txt

Thanks for looking into this :)

AndrewFG
2011-12-29, 05:09
Ok here are some logs.Perfect. That gives me all the information I need, thank you. I will work on this, and will hopefully get back with some solutions in a few days.


note: flac plays ok but the progress bar in jrmc keeps jumping back to zero.Ok. This is a different issue, but I will look into it too...


Playing mp3 with embedded artwork with network path set to x: from original local d: does not work:Yes this is indeed a JRMC problem. When JRMC sends a Play To command for a track in your local library (one that plays Ok) it sends the string 1) below, but when it sends a Play To command for a track on your x: directory (one that does not play) it sends the string 2) below:



1) <CurrentURI>http://192.168.0.103:52100/Music/F2077920.flac</CurrentURI>

2) <CurrentURI>http://192.168.0.103:52100/Music/F2357059.</CurrentURI>
You can see that in string 2) there is no file extension after the last period, which means that SBS cannot determine whether the track is a FLAC, MP3, or whatever. => You need to contact J River to ask them to fix this.

jamesgangnc
2012-01-03, 04:35
Just out of interest, what's the main difference between Whitebear Media Server and the built-in UPnP server that's now bundled with LMS ?

I can't easily compare it myself as I'm on Linux and I don't think Whitebear currently runs on Linux ?

Does Whitebear also support video and photos when used with LMS 7.7 or is it focused at music ?

I installed whitebear because it makes my itunes playlists available on my ps3 and the logitech media server does not. I can't explain why logitech didn't include itunes playlists with it's upnp server though? Seems like an obvious gap.

AndrewFG
2012-01-03, 06:03
Hi )p(

I will work on this, and will hopefully get back with some solutions in a few days.I made a new test version of Whitebear that should solve the issue of missing album art when doing Play To from a third party control point (like JRMC) to a Squeeze player. I sent you a Private Message where you can download it. Please test it and let me know if it works.


This is a different issue, but I will look into it too...I could not replicate this problem. The play position updates fine for me, on the player, the SBS web UI, and on the control point (JRMC).


You need to contact J River to ask them to fix this.Did you report this to J River yet? Any feedback yet?

)p(
2012-01-03, 14:38
Hi )p(
I made a new test version of Whitebear that should solve the issue of missing album art when doing Play To from a third party control point (like JRMC) to a Squeeze player. I sent you a Private Message where you can download it. Please test it and let me know if it works.

Did you report this to J River yet? Any feedback yet?

Thanks I will give it a go tomorrow and report back

Not yet they mentioned they shut down for the holidays. So I thought I better wait till they are full speed again. I saw Matt posting today. So I will post a message there tomorrow and hopefully it gets his attention.

)p(
2012-01-03, 14:48
Ok I could not wait and gave it a quick spin. Seems to work...yeah!
I will look closer tomorrow but its looking good.

AndrewFG
2012-01-03, 15:11
Ok I could not wait and gave it a quick spin. Seems to work...yeah!Yes! The Whitebear is coool...

pski
2012-01-03, 16:31
Yes! The Whitebear is coool...

So what does it do for a LMS user that is not interested in Dxxx and who doesn't use iTunes ?

Paul

)p(
2012-01-04, 03:49
Yes! The Whitebear is coool...

:) Still working today.

I still see the progress bar issue in jrmc with mc 17.0.62. But that is no problem. I normally dont even see it as the server is headless.

I posted the network drive letter issue on the jrmc forum.

AndrewFG
2012-01-04, 05:21
So what does it do for a LMS user that is not interested in Dxxx and who doesn't use iTunes?Sorry but I don't understand your question. What do you mean by Dxxx? And why do you think an interest in iTunes might be relevant to the discussion?

AndrewFG
2012-01-04, 05:33
I still see the progress bar issue in jrmc with mc 17.0.62. But that is no problem. I normally dont even see it as the server is headless.Ok. Let me just confirm that I understand which progress bar you are referring to: Is it the one along the top of JRMC's main window? Or the one on the Squeeze player? Or the one in the SBS web browser UI? Or indeed something else?

In any case, I don't see this problem. I am using JRMC v16.0.181 and the progress bar works fine in that. (So perhaps this is also something new in JRMC v17 ??)

What kind of file are you playing? Is it a local flac file? Or one of your troublesome remote flacs without a file extension? Or is it a remote radio stream? And in JRMC does the file report a BitRate, a Duration, and a File Size?

)p(
2012-01-04, 06:33
Ok. Let me just confirm that I understand which progress bar you are referring to: Is it the one along the top of JRMC's main window? Or the one on the Squeeze player? Or the one in the SBS web browser UI? Or indeed something else?

In any case, I don't see this problem. I am using JRMC v16.0.181 and the progress bar works fine in that. (So perhaps this is also something new in JRMC v17 ??)

What kind of file are you playing? Is it a local flac file? Or one of your troublesome remote flacs without a file extension? Or is it a remote radio stream? And in JRMC does the file report a BitRate, a Duration, and a File Size?

The bar on the sb player is ok. The one along the top of jrc main window and also on the jremote ipad app have this issue.

It happens even if I play standard mp3's that have been imported into jrmc with their local hd drive letter and are on the same machine as jrmc itself.

Mmm I did not look at the numbers before. They are really weird when I start a song the duration is reported correctly in the bar. But withinh a split second its reset to 2:14. This happens with every file that I play. Also it reports 0 khz and 0 channels. So there is most likely definitively something from in jrmc 17.

AndrewFG
2012-01-04, 08:36
They are really weird when I start a song the duration is reported correctly in the bar. But withinh a split second its reset to 2:14. This happens with every file that I play. Also it reports 0 khz and 0 channels. So there is most likely definitively something from in jrmc 17.Now I can repeat it. It is not a JRMC issue. It is in fact due to a quirk in SBS where it effectively multiplies the duration by factor 1000x. I can probably fix it in Whitebear...

)p(
2012-01-04, 08:52
Now I can repeat it. It is not a JRMC issue. It is in fact due to a quirk in SBS where it effectively multiplies the duration by factor 1000x. I can probably fix it in Whitebear...

Great that you can reproduce it now. That will make the experience complete.

Although much better then the lms upnp server occasionally jrmc-whitebear-sb does get out of sync for me and does not complete the whole playlist. Have you seen this? Maybe you could send the next song before the previous ends to to add it to the sb's playlist. Or is this not possible with upnp?

AndrewFG
2012-01-04, 10:36
Although much better then the lms upnp server occasionally jrmc-whitebear-sb does get out of sync for me and does not complete the whole playlist. Have you seen this?Can you be a bit more specific about the circumstances when/how this happens?


Maybe you could send the next song before the previous ends to to add it to the sb's playlist. Or is this not possible with upnp?Actually, it is possible. The UPnP standard supports two Actions, namely SetAvTransportUri (to set the current track) and SetNextAvTransportUri (to set the subsequent track). The former is a mandatory action, whereas the latter is an optional one; and for this reason most renderers don't implement it, so most control points don't try to call it. In principal I could implement it, but I am not sure if I would do so, whether JRMC would call it...

)p(
2012-01-04, 11:19
Can you be a bit more specific about the circumstances when/how this happens?

Actually, it is possible. The UPnP standard supports two Actions, namely SetAvTransportUri (to set the current track) and SetNextAvTransportUri (to set the subsequent track). The former is a mandatory action, whereas the latter is an optional one; and for this reason most renderers don't implement it, so most control points don't try to call it. In principal I could implement it, but I am not sure if I would do so, whether JRMC would call it...

I normally play a complete album. With lms in most cases it will stop after a few songs. With whitebear it happens much less frequently. It always happens at the end of a song when a new one should be fed to the sb.

MMM If you do that is the 2 item playlist then handled by squeeze server....ie will it do the actual transition from one to the other song like it was played without upnp. If that is the case it could be worth the effort only for the reason that it would give us gappless playback with classical music.

AndrewFG
2012-01-04, 12:02
Hi )p(,

I posted a new test build of Whitebear under the same url as I sent you before. This build should resolve the progress bar issue. Please give me feedback.


MMM If you do that is the 2 item playlist then handled by squeeze server....ie will it do the actual transition from one to the other song like it was played without upnp. If that is the case it could be worth the effort only for the reason that it would give us gappless playback with classical music.That is the idea. I will give it a try over the next few days. It all depends whether JRMC or other CPs will implement it...

)p(
2012-01-04, 14:27
Hi )p(,

I posted a new test build of Whitebear under the same url as I sent you before. This build should resolve the progress bar issue. Please give me feedback.


It works with squeezeplay as a client on the server.

I must have messed something up with the sbtouch because I cant play anything anymore with any version of whitebear. It gives a "connection reset by local host" error. I'll look into that tomorrow I have not time now.

AndrewFG
2012-01-04, 15:44
I must have messed something up with the sbtouch because I cant play anything anymore with any version of whitebear. It gives a "connection reset by local host" error. I'll look into that tomorrow I have not time now.Ok, keep cool. It is probably a testing gremlin that will be better in the morning. But in the worst case please send me another log ;-)

By the way, I discovered that JRMC does indeed support SetNextAvTransportUri. So with a bit more work, I should be able to fix things so it can do gapless transitions. I will post you another build soon...

)p(
2012-01-05, 02:55
Ok, keep cool. It is probably a testing gremlin that will be better in the morning. But in the worst case please send me another log ;-)

Progress bar still working.
When I set the windows firewall to off for my home network music now plays on the touch.
I opened port 31416 for private ip adresses and now all is well :)


By the way, I discovered that JRMC does indeed support SetNextAvTransportUri. So with a bit more work, I should be able to fix things so it can do gapless transitions. I will post you another build soon...

Be sure to announce that on the jrmc forum. I think a lot of people want to have gapless playback trough upnp.

AndrewFG
2012-01-05, 06:16
Progress bar still working.
When I set the windows firewall to off for my home network music now plays on the touch.Ok. That's good news.


I opened port 31416 for private ip adresses and now all is well :)This is a good point! In earlier versions, SBS used to get the music stream direct from JRMC. But now in this version SBS requests the music stream from Whitebear, and Whitebear in turn gets it from JRMC. So basically Whitebear is now proxying the stream from JRMC to SBS except that it inserts one ShoutCast "icy" meta data block that containing the track title and artwork url. => So it may indeed be necessary to allow SBS to access Whitebear's HTTP server port (31416) in the firewall.


Be sure to announce that on the jrmc forum. I think a lot of people want to have gapless playback trough upnp.I coded it already, and am now testing it...

)p(
2012-01-05, 06:46
Ok. That's good news.
So basically Whitebear is now proxying the stream from JRMC to SBS except that it inserts one ShoutCast "icy" meta data block that containing the track title and artwork url.

Ah this is why I now see on string on the touch for track - album - artist on the touch. Maybe you could make them separate again that will look nicer on a device like the touch.



I coded it already, and am now testing it...

:)

Is it possible to check after x seconds if sms did add it to the playlist as the next song and if not try again. That might make it even more robust.

AndrewFG
2012-01-05, 08:35
Ah this is why I now see on string on the touch for track - album - artist on the touch. Maybe you could make them separate again that will look nicer on a device like the touch.I am confused by your request "to make them separate again". When one commands SBS to play a remote stream, it is only possible to give it one title line to display. I always had this title line being "TrackNo. Title - Album - Artist", and as far as I know, this was always so, and nothing changed in the new Whitebear version compared to prior versions. (Or ??)


Is it possible to check after x seconds if sms did add it to the playlist as the next song and if not try again. That might make it even more robust.Actually, I hit a brick wall with this. I have added support for SetNextAvTransportURI in Whitebear, but it turns out that JRMC does not call it. It seems they announced support for SetNextAvTransportURI in their RENDERER "for those control points that support it", but they did not choose to support that feature temselves in their own control point (go figure). So adding the new feature to Whitebear is (currently) a pointless exercise. However I posted a comment about it on their forum...

)p(
2012-01-05, 08:41
I am confused by your request "to make them separate again". When one commands SBS to play a remote stream, it is only possible to give it one title line to display. I always had this title line being "TrackNo. Title - Album - Artist", and as far as I know, this was always so, and nothing changed in the new Whitebear version compared to prior versions. (Or ??)

MMm I probably mixed that up with using lms instead of whitebear for upnp.


Actually, I hit a brick wall with this. I have added support for SetNextAvTransportURI in Whitebear, but it turns out that JRMC does not call it. It seems they announced support for SetNextAvTransportURI in their RENDERER "for those control points that support it", but they did not choose to support that feature temselves in their own control point (go figure). So adding the new feature to Whitebear is (currently) a pointless exercise. However I posted a comment about it on their forum...

Lets hope they pick it up. Its always a hit or miss there. Sometimes they take suggestions/bugs up immediately...and sometimes...

AndrewFG
2012-01-06, 01:39
Hi )p(,

I discovered that your progress bar issue is a symptom of a bigger problem...

In general Squeezebox Server needs to know a track's duration before it can show a progress bar; and it needs to know the track's size before it can support seeking.

In prior versions of Squeezebox Server (v7.6.x and earlier), if an external stream server provided an Http Content-Length header value, plus either an "icy-br" or an "x-audicast-bitrate" header value, then Squeezebox Server could calculate the duration (content length divided by bitrate), and it would also turn on support for the seek function.

Unfortunately in Squeezebox Server v7.7 (aka LMS) the developers broke these mechanisms...

1) The developers changed the way Squeezebox Server handles "icy-br" and "x-audicast-bitrate" header values: In the past these always meant kilo bits per second, but now SBS "intelligently" interprets low values as before as kilo bits per second, but it interprets values above 1000 as bits per second. => This breaks Whitebear's older code. But admittedly it is easily fixed by having Whitebear check the SBS/LMS version number to conditionally determine what value it shall provide in its "icy-br" or "x-audicast-bitrate" headers. Yuckk!

2) <point 2) retracted: statement turned out to be incorrect>

IMHO breaking working code in such a way, is not very friendly towards the external developer community...

)p(
2012-01-06, 01:50
Hi )p(,

I discovered that your progress bar issue is a symptom of a bigger problem...

In general Squeezebox Server needs to know a track's duration before it can show a progress bar; and it needs to know the track's size before it can support seeking.

In prior versions of Squeezebox Server (v7.6.x and earlier), if an external stream server provided an Http Content-Length header value, plus either an "icy-br" or an "x-audicast-bitrate" header value, then Squeezebox Server could calculate the duration (content length divided by bitrate), and it would also turn on support for the seek function.

Unfortunately in Squeezebox Server v7.7 (aka LMS) the developers broke these mechanisms...

1) The developers changed the way Squeezebox Server handles "icy-br" and "x-audicast-bitrate" header values: In the past these always meant kilo bits per second, but now SBS "intelligently" interprets low values as before as kilo bits per second, but it interprets values above 1000 as bits per second. => This breaks Whitebear's older code. But admittedly it is easily fixed by having Whitebear check the SBS/LMS version number to conditionally determine what value it shall provide in its "icy-br" or "x-audicast-bitrate" headers. Yuckk!

2) The developers changed the way Squeezebox Server determines if a stream is seekable. Previously a stream was deemed seekable if Squeezebox Server had values for two out three of the variables length, duration, bitrate. However now, from v7.7 onwards, they use a different mechanism to determine if a stream is seekable. => This means that remote streams served by Whitebear, (or indeed remote Http streams served by other servers) are no longer seekable. Unfortunately I could not (yet) find a work around for this.

IMHO breaking working code in such a way, is not very friendly towards the external developer community...

I noticed that streams were not seekable. Also I did see some small hickups in the jrmc progress bar in the first few seconds. But further it looks ok to me now.

Did you get a response from jriver about the SetNextAvTransportURI support in jrmc?

AndrewFG
2012-01-06, 07:59
I noticed that streams were not seekable.If you would revert to SBS v7.6.x you could probably recover the seekability.

Also I did see some small hickups in the jrmc progress bar in the first few seconds. But further it looks ok to me now.JRMC updates its own progress bar in real time, periodically asks Whitebear for its progress info, and readjusts its realtime value to match what Whitebear gives it. So the glitches that you see are due to this readjustment between realtime and remote progress settings; the glitches would depend on network latency and rounding up/down to the nearest second; and the larger the progress position, the smaller is the relative impact of rounding...

Did you get a response from jriver about the SetNextAvTransportURI support in jrmc?I did not check yet :-(

AndrewFG
2012-01-07, 10:15
I noticed that streams were not seekable.Hi )p(,

I have been doing a lot more testing and developing by trail and error... And I found a way that Whitebear can persuade SBS/LMS to support the progress bar and also support the seek function. It works on the (buggy) v7.7.1 and should also be backwards compatible with the (non buggy) prior versions of SBS too.

I have posted a new test version under the same url that I sent in my earlier PM to you. Can you please give it a try, and give me feedback.

Although it now supports seek on all formats. You will find that JRMC itself has a bug (at least in v16.181) whereby it does not support seek on flac files. I posted a report about this on the JRMC forum. However, in the meantime, if you want seek with JRMC you need to set it to "Always Convert" to "Uncompressed L16 - No Header" (aka pcm).

Following is a summary of the changes introduced in this new test version of Whitebear:

1) support for album cover art on Play To
2) fixed the seek bug and the progress bar bug that were introduced by LMS/SBS v7.7.x
3) added support for the SetNextAvTransportURI function; thus enabling those control points that support this function to provide a gapless playback experience
4) increased streaming buffer sizes to reduce stuttering on transcoded playback
5) changed time resolution on play position information from seconds to milliseconds to reduce glitchiness on control point progress bar displays
6) various stability improvements (still testing)

The respective bugs in JRMC and LMS/SBS, that were identified in this process, have been notified to the respective developer teams.

Note to other readers of this post: Once I have got positive feedback from )p( concerning this new test version, then a formal new public version will be released on the web site in a couple of days.

)p(
2012-01-07, 10:36
Hi )p(,

I have been doing a lot more testing and developing by trail and error... And I found a way that Whitebear can persuade SBS/LMS to support the progress bar and also support the seek function. It works on the (buggy) v7.7.1 and should also be backwards compatible with the (non buggy) prior versions of SBS too.

I have posted a new test version under the same url that I sent in my earlier PM to you. Can you please give it a try, and give me feedback.



Seeking is working with transcoded flacs and mp3. I tried seeking on the sb, jremote and jrmc itself all worked.

I'll do some longer playlist tests tomorrow.

phil71
2012-01-07, 13:18
Hello everyone,

My name is Philippe and I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks now.
I'm very interested in this thread because JRMC is my music player, organiser, tagger for more than 5 years and because I've just bought a Squeezebox Touch and a Radio.

I have a Synology NAS where my music files reside (20'000 files mostly mp3 with embedded art covers). A Squeezebox server (Version: 7.6.1 - r33110) runs on it. [Still waiting for an update to 7.7 ;)]

My NAS is connected to my router through gigabit ethernet, yet my Squeezebox players and my laptop (JRMC) are on Wifi N.


So, a few weeks ago my setup was like this :
A) Using JRMC to Browse some local library (NOT by Whitebear), and Play locally on JRMC

But what I really want is :

C) Using JRMC to Browse some Squeezebox Library (by Whitebear), and Play To a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear)
C') Using JRMC to Browse some Squeezebox Library (by Whitebear), and Play To a SqueezePlayer

Ideally, I'd like to see the art covers on my SqueezePlayers along with the track info on three lines ;)

I've done some test and here are my results:

Configuration C)
I can see the art cover but the track info is on one line.
I can seek and the progress bar is fine (in either JRMC or the SqueezePlayer)
I can't go to the next song in my playing list from the SqueezePlayer. I can do that from JRMC.


Configuration C')
I can see the art cover and the track info is on three lines.
I can't seek but the progress bar is fine (in either JRMC or the SqueezePlayer)
I can't go to the next song in my playing list from the SqueezePlayer. I can do that from JRMC.



I have also an application on my smartphone (HP Pre 3 with webOS) where I can see the artwork only with the configuration C but the track info is on one line. It's the other way around with configuration C'.

In conclusion, with C) I can't have the track info on three lines but I can't seeking and see the artwork on my smartphone.

So, currently I'm more than satisfied with configuration C' even though I'd like to see the artwork on my phone. This is minor compares to have the track info on three lines which is personnally the top feature.


Voilà! Before completing this post, I'd like to thank Andrew for the work and )p( for the testing. If I can contribute in any way I'll be more than happy.


I understand that some developing are under way and I'm looking forward to the next version.

phil71
2012-01-07, 13:25
One rectification regarding my setup.

In order to be able to control my SqueezePlayer with JRMC, I have to switch the library on my SqueezePlayer. Therefore, the Squeezebox server I'm using is not the one on my Synology but the one on my laptop. The version of the latter is 7.7.1 - r33750

)p(
2012-01-07, 14:12
H
C) Using JRMC to Browse some Squeezebox Library (by Whitebear), and Play To a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear)
C') Using JRMC to Browse some Squeezebox Library (by Whitebear), and Play To a SqueezePlayer


Why would you want to use the sb library and not the jrmc library to send files through whitebear to your sb?

phil71
2012-01-07, 18:13
Because I understood it was the only way to get my art covers to be displayed on my SqueezePlayers.
Have I understood this right?
I think I read this here in this same thread!

)p(
2012-01-07, 23:08
Because I understood it was the only way to get my art covers to be displayed on my SqueezePlayers.
Have I understood this right?
I think I read this here in this same thread!

That is solved now. Using jrmc's library will give you much more flexiblity in building your own view schemes.

)p(
2012-01-08, 01:20
Seeking is working with transcoded flacs and mp3. I tried seeking on the sb, jremote and jrmc itself all worked.

I'll do some longer playlist tests tomorrow.

Ok let it play for a few hours. 100% ok even when adding songs, using shuffle or reshuffle while still playing.

Seeking works with one exception probably not related to whitebear. When I use jremote (ipad app) to control jrmc the first time I drag the slider while a song is playing seeking works. The next time it does not. Stopping the song and then play it lets me again seek in once while playing.

AndrewFG
2012-01-08, 15:29
I understood it was the only way to get my art covers to be displayed on my SqueezePlayers. Have I understood this right?No, it is not the only way: as you yourself said, there are indeed two ways to play to a Squeezeplayer:

1) Library (by Whitebear) => Player (by Whitebear)
2) Library JRMC (*) => Player (by Whitebear)

(*) or another control point like Windows Media Player, Foobar, etc.

In case 1) SBS/LMS is sourcing the all music track data and all its meta data and cover art images. The control point just informs Whitebear about this, and Whitebear just informs SBS/LMS to refer back to its own data. The control point only sends control commands, via Whitebear, to play this or that track, but no actual data (be it meta data, music stream or cover art), needs to be transferred because that data is already inside SBS/LMS. Therefore everything works smoother.

In case 2) the control point is sourcing the track data, which it then gives to Whitebear, which Whitebear then passes on to SBS/LMS. The track meta data and cover art come from the control point; and the control point is also actually providing the music data stream too. Therefore there is far more "stuff" being passed between control point, Whitebear and SBS/LMS, so the data integration is more complex, and it risks to run less smoothly. Also if Logitech messes with things in the server (as they just did in v7.7.x), it risks that I also have to change things in Whitebear to match (as I just did in this new build).

Notwithstanding the above, case 2) works fine in the test version that )p( is now kindly testing. It displays all track meta data (albeit on one line), the cover art, and obviously it plays the track itself. (In some cases, the control point might not support the seek function on all formats; but that regrettably is not the fault of Whitebear).


Using jrmc's library will give you much more flexiblity in building your own view schemes.I don't really know enough about JRMC to judge whether )p( is right on this. But clearly he prefers case 2). But then again, I have to say that I prefer case 1). So finally it is just a matter of choice...

AndrewFG
2012-01-08, 15:30
Ok let it play for a few hours. 100% ok even when adding songs, using shuffle or reshuffle while still playing.Yes! The Whitebear is coool...

)p(
2012-01-09, 01:26
I don't really know enough about JRMC to judge whether )p( is right on this. But clearly he prefers case 2). But then again, I have to say that I prefer case 1). So finally it is just a matter of choice...

If you only use audio and the regular genre - artist - album browsing works for you then using the sb library will work.

By the way I noticed in Whitebear under settings the Client http user agent header settings is now greyed out. It was not in earlier versions of whitebear.

AndrewFG
2012-01-09, 04:22
If you only use audio .. then using the sb library will work.This is a good point because obviously you can use JRMC to manage and play your videos too. And in such cases I suppose (but did not test it) that you can command the soundtrack of a video in JRMC to Play To a Squeezeplayer (??) -- but honestly it is hard to see a real benefit in that...


If ... the regular genre - artist - album browsing works for you then using the sb library will work.Apologies if I am wrong on this, but when you connect to a UPnP/DLNA library, JRMC downloads the entire Content Directory from Whitebear/SBS/LMS into its own local JRMC database, and my understanding is that you can do searches, random sorts, create playlists etc. with that database in exactly the same way as you could with a locally hosted JRMC database. Or ??


By the way I noticed in Whitebear under settings the Client http user agent header settings is now greyed out. It was not in earlier versions of whitebear.I will check later to see if I can repeat this issue on my test system...

)p(
2012-01-09, 07:53
Apologies if I am wrong on this, but when you connect to a UPnP/DLNA library, JRMC downloads the entire Content Directory from Whitebear/SBS/LMS into its own local JRMC database, and my understanding is that you can do searches, random sorts, create playlists etc. with that database in exactly the same way as you could with a locally hosted JRMC database. Or ??


Yes thats true and you can even add your own stuff and adjust the view schemes. But its get messy when you also use the same library for other things then sending audio to whitebear. But if you main purpose is getting audio through whitebear I agree its the best approach.

AndrewFG
2012-01-09, 08:05
But its get messy when you also use the same library for other things then sending audio to whitebear.Understood. A perfect solution would be if JRMC could have multiple libraries open at the same time e.g. the main audio library (by Whitebear) and a local JRMC library for video and other media. Then you could create playlists of intermixed items from any library that could be Played To a Squeezeplayer by Whitebear -- albeit using slightly different mechanisms. ;-)

)p(
2012-01-09, 08:15
Understood. A perfect solution would be if JRMC could have multiple libraries open at the same time e.g. the main audio library (by Whitebear) and a local JRMC library for video and other media. Then you could create playlists of intermixed items from any library that could be Played To a Squeezeplayer by Whitebear -- albeit using slightly different mechanisms. ;-)

Indeed and that has been asked on the jriver forum several times. But I can understand why they have not done so far. Its probably not that easy.

But you can run more then one instance of jrmc at once. But its was not that stable last time I tried. options > general > advanced > allow more instances...

Update: When you use the library provided by Whitebear with jrmc how are updates handled in jrmc when you add new files to and or adjust tags in the lms database?

AndrewFG
2012-01-10, 15:05
When you use the library provided by Whitebear with jrmc how are updates handled in jrmc when you add new files to and or adjust tags in the lms database?Well SBS/LMS should detect changes in the library and trigger a rescan for added or changed items. And this does cause a change in the SystemUpdateID in Whitebear. And JRMC should notice this change in SystemUpdateId and automatically start to refresh its database. However to be honest, I have only tested this on Windows Media Player (where it works fine) and not on JRMC.

Wigster
2012-01-10, 15:10
H Andrew,

So I have upgraded to LMS 7.7.2 (33761), while keeping the latest WB 2.2. I have the UPnP plug in of LMS disabled.

Things work as they should for mp3 files. However, it appears that all the files which are in the FLAC format appear in the LMS library appear in the WB DLNA library as PCM and are unplayable in WMP.

I am guessing it's some change in v 7.7 since I haven't changed WB recently.

I have the Shark 007 codecs installed, as well as WMP Tag Plus, which allows me to play FLAC and other files and keep them in the library of the WMP as if they were natively supported. Previously I could play the FLAC files being served by WB from the SBS library. Now I cannot, neither to the Squeeezebox not in WMP.

Moreover, what used to work (and now doesn't) is being able to serve a FLAC file in the WMP library (i.e. not the WB library) without transcoding to the Squeezebox. Now attempting to play such files fails with "Failed to retrieve media information".

Are you seeing this too?

AndrewFG
2012-01-10, 15:13
By the way I noticed in Whitebear under settings the Client http user agent header settings is now greyed out. It was not in earlier versions of whitebear.The user agent settings are only greyed out if no user agent has actually called the Whitebear ContentDirectory, and the list is therefore still empty. As soon as the first control point calls the ContentDirectory, the control point's user agent name is put in the list, and the list therefore becomes un-greyed. So it sounds as if you have not tried to connect to the Whitebear ContentDirectory since uninstalling and reinstalling Whitebear. Or??

AndrewFG
2012-01-10, 16:16
...it appears that all the files which are in the FLAC format appear in the LMS library appear in the WB DLNA library as PCM...Yes that is normal. Whitebear actually offers files to client control points in multiple formats, and the client control point chooses whichever format it prefers. For flac files, Whitebear, with its default settings, offers (in order) pcm, native (i.e. flac) and mp3. The pcm is offered first because it is the default "must support" format of all UPnP and DLNA devices, and this therefore ensures compatibility with the maximum number of clients. And as WMP does not natively support flac, it always chooses the pcm offer. This is not a change since earlier versions of WMP/Whitebear/LMS; it was always like this. The only 'bad' consequence is that when you play such a track on WMP, it forces Whitebear to transcode from flac to pcm, which means a higher CPU load on the server, but no loss of audio quality as "lossless is lossless".


..and are unplayable in WMP..I have not encountered any such a problem in my case. It plays just fine. Also I doubt that the change to LMS v7.7 would have any impact on this since nothing much changed in this area. (Are your flacs 44100Hz or 48000Hz 16bit 2channel, or are they higher bitrate or resolutions? -- It is just possible that Whitebear's transcoders may not be set up to handle all hires, hi rate flac combinations yet. But if so, that can no doubt be tweaked.)


I have the Shark 007 codecs installed, as well as WMP Tag Plus, which allows me to play FLAC and other files and keep them in the library of the WMP as if they were natively supported.Me too! That should also not be the cause of your problems. (But also it is not the solution -- see below...)


Previously I could play the FLAC files being served by WB from the SBS library. Now I cannot, neither to the Squeeezebox not in WMP.I am guessing that your problem could be that WMP's database of tracks from Whitebear might have got out of sync with the actual tracks in the LMS/SBS library. Perhaps you have recently done an LMS/SBS database rescan?

In such a case, WMP may be asking Whitebear/LMS/SBS to play a track ID that is no longer actually in LMS/SBS, and the play may fail. Usually WMP detects such an out of sync case, and will refresh its local database quietly in the background. (You may even find that during such a refresh, there may even be duplicate tracks in WMP; being the old and the new versions of the same track. But once the refresh is completed, the old versions are deleted.) You can force WMP to do a refresh by right clicking on "Library Name (by Whitebear)" and selecting Refresh. In my experience the WMP refresh may take up to 30 minutes for a library having 10'000 tracks...

Note also that if LMS/SBS is itself doing a rescan, then communications between WMP/Whitebear/LMS are blocked until that rescan is completed. At which point WMP should detect the change in the Whitebear/LMS database status and automatically initiate its own refresh process. So this chain reaction may take 15 minutes for LMS to rescan its 10'000 tracks followed by the abovementioned 30 minutes for WMP to do its refresh. So it is best to let these things run overnight ;-)


Moreover, what used to work (and now doesn't) is being able to serve a FLAC file in the WMP library (i.e. not the WB library) without transcoding to the Squeezebox. Now attempting to play such files fails with "Failed to retrieve media information".I doubt that this was ever possible; even in prior versions. Basically WMP can only stream (Play To) tracks to other media renders (such as Whitebear/LMS) that are in one of WMP's own native formats (e.g. pcm, mp3, wma, wav). The Shark add-ins do allow WMP to play tracks locally within WMP but they do not help WMP to stream those formats to other 3rd party players using the Play To command (don't ask me why). This is a weakness of WMP and/or the Shark add-ins, and is not the fault of Whitebear or LMS.

Wigster
2012-01-12, 03:00
I doubt that this was ever possible; even in prior versions. Basically WMP can only stream (Play To) tracks to other media renders (such as Whitebear/LMS) that are in one of WMP's own native formats (e.g. pcm, mp3, wma, wav). The Shark add-ins do allow WMP to play tracks locally within WMP but they do not help WMP to stream those formats to other 3rd party players using the Play To command (don't ask me why). This is a weakness of WMP and/or the Shark add-ins, and is not the fault of Whitebear or LMS.

But that's the thing: I've been playing local FLAC files for the past 3-4 months with no problems whatsoever (I could even play AAC etc, but there were problems with moving from one track to the next, WMP would cause the same AAC track to be replayed over and over). All of a sudden it stopped working following the 7.7 upgrade. I'll try to downgrade to see if I can play them again and do some track rescans.

I'm also pretty sure that the file format of SBS's FLAC files in the WB library was FLAC rather than PCM, although not 100%, since I mostly use WB to play local files of my laptop to the Squeezebox.

)p(
2012-01-12, 03:23
Hi Andrew,

I noticed when I import/load the sb library provided by Whitebear that it only imports the first genre.
I have my genres separated with a ";""
ie Classical;Classical - Violin Concerto

AndrewFG
2012-01-12, 06:51
it only imports the first genreHmmm... until I read your post, I always thought that just as a track can only have one title, it could also only have one genre and one album name; but by contrast it could have multiple artists ... but it seems I was wrong! I just read the UPnP specification again, and I see that it does indeed allow multiple entries for artist, genre, and album (but not for title !). It is amazing what one can learn each day!


I have my genres separated with a ";"
ie Classical;Classical - Violin ConcertoThis raises a question about how the SBS scanner handles complex genre tags containing multiple items. As far as artists are concerned, SBS has a "separator character for multiple items" so if a track has a complex artist tag like "fred<s>joe" (where <s> is the separator character) the scanner will split that tag into two artist entries in the database. Does the SBS scanner handle complex genre tags in the same way, using the same separator character? Or does a track with a complex genre tag like "rock<s>classical" remain unsplit as a single entry in your SBS database?

If the SBS scanner treats complex genre tags in the exact same way as it treats complex artist tags, then it is a trivial matter to implement multiple genre entries in the Whitebear UPnP ContentDirectory. But if complex genre tags have a different handling than complex artists tags, it would require Whitebear to somehow read your mind about your chosen personal encoding scheme for complex genre tags...

)p(
2012-01-12, 07:27
If the SBS scanner treats complex genre tags in the exact same way as it treats complex artist tags, then it is a trivial matter to implement multiple genre entries in the Whitebear UPnP ContentDirectory. But if complex genre tags have a different handling than complex artists tags, it would require Whitebear to somehow read your mind about your chosen personal encoding scheme for complex genre tags...

Yes it does only use one setting for multi items for artist, album and genre. I have it set to ";".

AndrewFG
2012-01-12, 07:32
All of a sudden it stopped working following the 7.7 upgrade.You are probably getting mixed up here. There are two cases:

Case 1) if you have a control point that can serve native flac, then Whitebear sets things up between SBS and the control point so that SBS gets the track direct from the control point i.e. Whitebear plays no role in actually moving the data.

Case 2) if you have a control point that can only serve pcm, then Whitebear sets things up so that Whitebear becomes a transcoding proxy between SBS and the control point, whereby Whitebear gets the track from the control point in pcm format, and serves it to SBS as flac. The reason for this double proxy transcoding approach is that pcm is the "must support" format of UPnP, but SBS does not support pcm (at least not for remote streams). WMP can only serve lossless streams in pcm so case 2) is always used when WMP does Play To a SBS player (by Whitebear).

And the reason why case 2) won't work anymore with SBS v7.7 is that the developers messed up something concerning x-audiocast-bitrate headers. Grrr! I am developing, with the help of )p(, an update of Whitebear to work around this v7.7 issue. However in the meantime downgrading to 7.6 should see you right, until my update is released.

AndrewFG
2012-01-12, 07:34
Yes it does only use one setting for multi items for artist, album and genre. I have it set to ";".Cool. I will add this feature to my current work-in-progress next release.
Edit: it seems that I only have to change one line in my code...

Wigster
2012-01-14, 08:26
Hi Andrew,

Re: playing FLAC files through WB.

So, I seem to have solved the problem. For some reason I had to reinstall the latest Shark 007 codecs (v3.3.8). I was running v3.3.5 before (maybe I changed some setting?) and that seems to have been the problem.

1) Now I can again play FLAC files in the local WMP library through WB on the Squeezebox using the Play To feature. I am running LMS 7.7.2, so it was not an issue with the server version. I guess there could be transcoding going on, I am not sure, but the SB receives FLC radio.

2) I can also now play the PCM files being served by the WB DLNA library on the SB. This did require me to recreate the WMP library following the upgrade to LMS 7.7.

So it all works again. However, as far as I can tell, you seem to think that (1) should not be working?

AndrewFG
2012-01-15, 12:13
as far as I can tell, you seem to think that (1) should not be working?Indeed. But who's complaining :-)

AndrewFG
2012-01-22, 07:40
I made another pre- version of Whitebear that addresses the issues raised in this thread. In particular it fixes some bugs introduced in LMS 7.7.x and provides richer meta data on Play To (i.e. Title, Album, Artist and Album Art). And I have sent a PM to )p( and Wigster giving them details where to get this new pre-version.

)p(
2012-01-22, 08:11
and provides richer meta data on Play To (i.e. Title, Album, Artist and Album Art). And I have sent a PM to )p( and Wigster giving them details where to get this new pre-version.

Working :)

AndrewFG
2012-01-22, 15:34
Working :)In the meantime, I found a big bug in that pre- release version, so have put up another one...

pski
2012-01-22, 15:36
?

Mike C
2012-01-26, 12:46
Hi Andrew, thank you for the great extension to SB - just donated.

I recently starting having a problem with UPnP. My control points see WhiteBear and can control players BUT there is no feedback from Whitebear. Using the Intel Dev Tools, I can invoke actions and get response but LastChange events do not seem to be generated or are something has gone wrong the network - what else would you need to trouble shoot.

Mike

Bert003
2012-01-26, 12:59
Small question.

I use Inguz Audio's plugin with LMS. Is it possible with Whitebear to stream the processed signal by Inguz Audio plugin to UPNP streaming clients?

AndrewFG
2012-01-26, 14:41
I recently starting having a problem with UPnP. My control points see WhiteBear and can control players BUT there is no feedback from Whitebear. Using the Intel Dev Tools, I can invoke actions and get response but LastChange events do not seem to be generated or are something has gone wrong the network - what else would you need to trouble shoot.Hi Mike,

Thanks for the donation.

Concerning "no feedback from Whitebear", I need to understand more about your real problem...

Many UPnP AV devices receive the incoming control commands, and immediately reflect back a "virtual" state change in LastChange that reflects what that command ought to have achieved.

But Whitebear tries to reflect the actual physical state changes of the players. So, for example if a CP sends a stop command to Whitebear, then Whitebear forwards that stop command to the Squeeze player; but if the player is already in a stopped state, then no actual state change occurs, and so no LastChange event is triggered. And the other way round, if you start the Squeeze player by means of its local control buttons, then a LastChange event will be sent to the CP (so long as the CP has subscribed to the eventing system), even though the CP did not issue that play command itself.

So can you please be more specific about what is not working for you, and under what circumstances?

AndrewFG
2012-01-26, 14:44
I use Inguz Audio's plugin with LMS. Is it possible with Whitebear to stream the processed signal by Inguz Audio plugin to UPNP streaming clients?Sorry but I don't know enough about Inguz to answer this. What does Inguz do?

Mike C
2012-01-29, 09:47
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the donation.

Concerning "no feedback from Whitebear", I need to understand more about your real problem...

Many UPnP AV devices receive the incoming control commands, and immediately reflect back a "virtual" state change in LastChange that reflects what that command ought to have achieved.

But Whitebear tries to reflect the actual physical state changes of the players. So, for example if a CP sends a stop command to Whitebear, then Whitebear forwards that stop command to the Squeeze player; but if the player is already in a stopped state, then no actual state change occurs, and so no LastChange event is triggered. And the other way round, if you start the Squeeze player by means of its local control buttons, then a LastChange event will be sent to the CP (so long as the CP has subscribed to the eventing system), even though the CP did not issue that play command itself.

So can you please be more specific about what is not working for you, and under what circumstances?

Hi Andrew,

Few more details....

Using the Intel Dev Tools Media Controller app, I can control LMS via UPnP and Whitebear. So, if on the controller app, if I press play, the player starts playing. But, I do not see the change reflect on the Controller app. Same with volume controls. So, in short, Whitebear is executing commands fine but updates are not coming back to the controller app. This occurs with LMS, Whitebear, and the controller app on the same machine.

With the controller app running on a different machine, everything works fine.

I can also confirm the same behavior using JRMC on the 2 different machines. So, I am guessing there is some sort of networking issue on the machine hosting LMS and Whitebear?

Mike

AndrewFG
2012-01-29, 10:58
Re: playing FLAC files through WB.

1) Now I can again play FLAC files in the local WMP library through WB on the Squeezebox using the Play To feature. I am running LMS 7.7.2, so it was not an issue with the server version. I guess there could be transcoding going on, I am not sure, but the SB receives FLC radio.

So it all works again. However, as far as I can tell, you seem to think that (1) should not be working?Hi Wigster,

Although I installed the Shark codecs, WMP12 was still not able to stream flac files to Whitebear or Squeeze players. Could you please give me more details of what parts of Shark you installed, and how you set it up? I am running Windows 7 64 bit, and I am wondering if that makes any difference.

AndrewFG
2012-01-29, 11:10
Hi Mike,

I am still not seeing this issue. Can you please help me more?


I can also confirm the same behavior using JRMC on the 2 different machines.Let me understand: In test a) you were using the Intel CP + Whitebear + LMS on the same machine; and in test b) you were using JRMC + Whitebear + LMS on the same machine. Is that correct?


So, I am guessing there is some sort of networking issue on the machine hosting LMS and Whitebear?Whitebear talks to the CP via TCP/IP, and traffic originating and ending on the same node gets looped back internally inside the O/S or inside LAN interface. Is the machine actually still connected to the network, or is its network disabled at this time?

Could you please record me a log from Whitebear? Turn on logging of "Http Server" and "Http client (Gena...".

Edit: In my own tests the Intel CP never updates its status regardless of whether it is connected locally or remotely. And JRMC always updates its status both when it is connected locally and remotely. So the issue is apparently more to do with the Intel tools rather than with the network...

Edit 2: And I checked the transactions between Whitebear and the Intel too, and 1) Whitebear is sending notifications, and 2) the Intel tool is calling GetPositionInfo very frequently. So apparently the Intel tool is getting the data it needs, but is not updating its UI. => So perhaps you need to contact Ylian about it?

Mike C
2012-01-29, 14:43
Hi

Too clarify

On server PC have LMS, Whitebear, and JRMC

On client PC have JRMC

In general, JRMC on the client PC reflects the state of Whitebear accurately (not 100%)

On the server, JRMC often does not reflect the state of Whitebear. Control of Whitebear from this PC using JRMC works fine.

So, my primary problem is that clients are not accurately reflecting the state of LMS/Whitebear.

Using JRMC on the server and PC to control the other instance of JRMC works fine and always accurate reflects the transport and renderer state. So I don't think its a network issue.

Log file is here

http://www.mediafire.com/?4oi7acqtp5gosev

AndrewFG
2012-01-29, 15:40
So, my primary problem is that clients are not accurately reflecting the state of LMS/Whitebear.
Hi Mr C,

Thanks for the log file. There is quite a lot going on in this log: as far as I can determine, you have JRMC and Whitebear running on IP 192.168.1.2, another instance of JRMC running on 192.168.1.176, and a "MiniUPnPC/1.3" running on 192.168.1.3 -- is that correct?

Side comment: I can see from the trace that this MiniUPnPc/1.3 application is quite seriously buggy...

But anyway, if I understand you correctly your issue relates to (lack of) status updates on transactions between JRMC and Whitebear within the 192.168.1.2 machine. Is that correct? If so, can you please stop the other JRMC on 192.168.1.176 and the "MiniUPnPC/1.3" on 192.168.1.3, (so we are are testing the 192.168.1.2 stuff only), and please let me know if the problem goes away?

Mike C
2012-01-29, 16:44
What kind of problems are you seeing from the MiniUPnPc/1.3 on 192.168.1.3?

Closing that app fixed the problem...

AndrewFG
2012-01-30, 00:18
What kind of problems are you seeing from the MiniUPnPc/1.3 on 192.168.1.3?
Closing that app fixed the problem...
The bug that I found in MiniUPnPc is that it does not comply to the UPnP specifications; in the code below its SOAPAction header is non compliant since it lacks a namespace prefix.



192.168.1.3:64652 Recv : POST / HTTP/1.1
Host: 192.168.1.2:31416
User-Agent: Windows/1.3, UPnP/1.0, MiniUPnPc/1.3
Content-Length: 245
Content-Type: text/xml
SOAPAction: "#GetCommonLinkProperties"
Connection: Close
Cache-Control: no-cache
Pragma: no-cache


However, MiniUPnPc is not the reason why Whitebear has problems in your rig; the real reason is that the application is subscribing to all event notification channels, as do both instances of JRMC. And Whitebear is properly sending event notifications to all three subscribers, but it turns out that some of the status changes behind the events are getting cleared before Whitebear has sent all the notifications, so the last subscriber is getting an "empty" notification. This is a bug in Whitebear that I will fix in a forthcoming release.

Mike C
2012-01-30, 06:49
Andrew, thank you for the update. Makes sense now on how hard it was to consistently reproduce the problem :)

Mike

AndrewFG
2012-02-07, 14:51
This is a bug in Whitebear that I will fix in a forthcoming release.I posted some PMs to people involved in this thread, with a link where you can get the next pre-release version of Whitebear that should fix the various issues raised.

Wigster
2012-02-09, 14:14
Hi Wigster,

Although I installed the Shark codecs, WMP12 was still not able to stream flac files to Whitebear or Squeeze players. Could you please give me more details of what parts of Shark you installed, and how you set it up? I am running Windows 7 64 bit, and I am wondering if that makes any difference.

Sorry for relying so late:

Well, it seems to just work on my setup. I have the Shark codecs for Win 7 installed (you need both the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions, since WMP-12 is a 32-bit app) and set to their recommended settings. I am also running a plugin called WMP Tag Plus, which allows me to add to the library the files which are not normally supported. Maybe this is a key?

I am not sure whether this matters, but I used to worry about this a lot previously, so this is how my system is set up: the server has file access to the directory in which the music files are located: I am running the LMS service on the server using the same user as I use on the laptop, so that the permissions work out. You should be able to test if this is possible by browsing to the music folder through LMS's menus and playing the files (you may have to add some kind of link across machines?).

Given the above, playing FLACS works perfectly fine. It is also possible to play AAC files in this way. However there is a problem: the same track will repeat over and over once it reaches the end, instead of progressing onto the next track in the list (or stopping if it's over).

What doesn't work for either FLAC or AAC is skipping to a different point in the track. WIth the FLAC nothing happens, with the AAC, playing restarts from the beginning.

You have sent me a new version by PM: I am not sure whether you changed anything with regard to the above, but I'll let you know if there is any change.

AndrewFG
2012-02-09, 16:52
I am also running a plugin called WMP Tag Plus, which allows me to add to the library the files which are not normally supported. Maybe this is a key?

Yes that could be the cause (because I don't have that plug-in installed). I will give it a try, and keep you posted.


I am not sure whether this matters, ...

I think that is unlikely to matter...


What doesn't work for either FLAC or AAC is skipping to a different point in the track. WIth the FLAC nothing happens, with the AAC, playing restarts from the beginning.Yes that sounds like a classic problem with LMS/SBS -- I can confirm your experience... ;-(


You have sent me a new version by PM: I am not sure whether you changed anything with regard to the above, but I'll let you know if there is any change.I changed quite a bit in the Play To functionality. Players should now display much more track meta data and album art. Also if you Play To with WAV, PCM or AIF, then Whitebear fixes the above mentioned LMS/SBS problems with Seek and Pause, by proxying the streams and applying the Seek internally itself.

Wigster
2012-02-12, 09:28
Hi Andrew,

So I've tried out v2381. Unfortunately, with the new version I can no longer play the FLAC files from the local WMP library. Playing AACs works (although they still repeat once they reach the end and the progress bar and time remaining counter are completely off).

The FLAC file appears in the PlayTo list, the interface seems to think it's playing for a few seconds (i.e. the pause button appears) and then it skips onto the next track in the list.

Is there some subset of logs I could send to you from the two versions so you could compare?

AndrewFG
2012-02-13, 10:45
Unfortunately, with the new version I can no longer play the FLAC files from the local WMP library. Playing AACs works (although they still repeat once they reach the end and the progress bar and time remaining counter are completely off).Hmm. That one works and the other doesn't sounds unusual...

What type of player are you using? Is it a Touch? Does it have in player support for Flac and not Aac? Or vice versa? And what version of SBS/LMS are you using?

Edit: could you also please send me the logs (log Http server and log Cli) of what happens when you do Play To for a) an AAC track and b) an FLAC one?

Wombat66
2012-02-14, 13:52
Wow!

I'm running Whitebear 2.2.2.2196 and I'm very pleased. I tried a version back in October 2010 and it wasn't working nearly as well a this one. I'm so glad I came back and gave it another try. As soon as I'm done writing this I'm going to be clicking on that donation button.

BTW, I'm using JRiver Media Center 17, and with Whitebear pushing audio to a Squeezebox Boom and/or my Squeezebox Radio while controlling it all with JRemote from my iPhone. I'm so happy! Yes!!!

Now, I believe something was mentioned about the possibility of gapless play? That will totally seal the deal!

Looking forward!

Cheers!

AndrewFG
2012-02-15, 07:56
Now, I believe something was mentioned about the possibility of gapless play? That will totally seal the deal!i am delighted that you like Whitebear. And you are correct: I am indeed working with the guys at J River to provide gapless play. expect a new release in ten days or so...

AndrewFG
2012-02-25, 11:44
Status Update:

I have created a new test version of Whitebear which addresses the issues raised in this post. If have sent a PM to Wigster and )p( with a link where you guys can get it.

The new test version also includes code to support Play To with gapless playback. This is currently under testing by the guys over at J. River.

If I get positive feedback both here and on the J. River forum, that the fixes work, and that nothing else got broken, then I expect to post the new version officially in a few days time.

AndrewFG
2012-03-12, 06:18
I have added support for SetNextAvTransportURI in Whitebear, but it turns out that JRMC does not call it. It seems they announced support for SetNextAvTransportURI in their RENDERER "for those control points that support it", but they did not choose to support that feature temselves in their own control point (go figure). So adding the new feature to Whitebear is (currently) a pointless exercise. However I posted a comment about it on their forum...

Update: I am delighted to announce that Whitebear v2.3 now fully supports SetNextAvTransportURI and so does J. River Media Center v17 -- This means that JRMC can deliver gapless playback on Playing To Squeeze players (by Whitebear). Indeed (really cool) if you have SBS/LMS set for cross-fade you can even have a "negative" gap between tracks.

AndrewFG
2012-03-25, 10:46
Sorry for relying so late:
Well, it seems to just work on my setup. I have the Shark codecs for Win 7 installed (you need both the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions, since WMP-12 is a 32-bit app) and set to their recommended settings.


Hi Wigster,

I finally got back to this topic because someone else has posted another thread about WMP on this forum.

I cleaned out all my WMP codecs, and reinstalled the latest Shark set. And yes, I can now play all kinds of music files locally in WMP. But the Play To function still only "almost" works; which is to say that WMP does properly send the UPnP commands to set up playing, and Whitebear safely parses them and adds the track to the player's playlist. However when the Squeezeplayer tries to actually play the track WMP returns an HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request error.

This means that the player and WMP are talking to each other, but that WMP does not want to serve the file. I suppose this could be a firewall issue, but when WMP is serving a natively supported mp3 track there is no error, and only when trying to serve a Shark transcoded flac track does the HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request error occur.

=> Any suggestions?

vinhattieu
2012-03-27, 06:31
I can play mp3s from WMP12 to my Touch, but cannot get Flacs to work. I've tried madFlac, then Win7Codecs 3.5.8, both with WMP Tag Plus installed, but nothing happens.

Can anybody help me with that?

AndrewFG
2012-03-31, 02:20
I can play mp3s from WMP12 to my Touch, but cannot get Flacs to work. I've tried madFlac, then Win7Codecs 3.5.8, both with WMP Tag Plus installed, but nothing happens.

Can anybody help me with that?

Are you using Whitebear? Or LMS internal DLNA server? (The latter almost certainly won't work...)

vinhattieu
2012-03-31, 22:27
I've tried both and none was working.

papaiannis
2012-04-19, 05:19
I'd like to have my popcorn c200 media server behaving as a squeezebox player.
Given that c200 supports DLNA/UPnP rendering, may the Whitebear proxy be used to bridge a LMS to my c200?
My ultimate target is to remotely control the c200/squeezeplayer with my Squeezebox Controller.
Any help? Thank you.

AndrewFG
2012-04-19, 05:36
I'd like to have my popcorn c200 media server behaving as a squeezebox player.
Given that c200 supports DLNA/UPnP rendering, may the Whitebear proxy be used to bridge a LMS to my c200?
My ultimate target is to remotely control the c200/squeezeplayer with my Squeezebox Controller.
Any help? Thank you.
The Squeezebox Controller is only able to command Logitech devices.

papaiannis
2012-04-19, 11:32
The Squeezebox Controller is only able to command Logitech devices.

I thought that the WhiteBear proxy made a UPnP device look like a Logitech device to LMS. Therefore I hoped that my c200 could be selected as the current client in my squeezebox controller.

Please note that I installed a LMS on the c200 and it works like a charm. Could this help in having the c200 behaving like a Logitech device?

Thank you.

AndrewFG
2012-04-20, 09:40
I thought that the WhiteBear proxy made a UPnP device look like a Logitech device to LMS.

Wrong!! ( WhiteBear makes Logitech devices look like UPnP devices to UPnP control points... )

Wigster
2012-04-22, 02:37
Hi,

I am not sure what happened, but somewhere between my running WB 2.1 (where everything worked) and installing 2.3, the playback of files in the WMP library to the Squeezebox broke. I have tried going back to WB 2.1, but this does not fix the issue anymore. At some point I did update from SBS 7.7.1 which worked to SBS 7.7.3, but I didn't test WB's behaviour then). I am not sure what is going on, but maybe you'll have an idea.

Playback of music from the library being served by WB to SBS through the WMP-12 Play To feature works fine.

When I try to play an MP3 file from the WMP library, the Play To windows opens, the Squeezebox/WB player gets set up, SBS stops playing whatever it was playing and then nothing. In the playlist, the title of the track appears followed by "Contacting media server...". This actually had been happening with FLAC files since version 2.2, but now that I've installed 2.3, it also happens with the MP3s.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

AndrewFG
2012-04-22, 11:18
I am not sure what happened, but somewhere between my running WB 2.1 (where everything worked) and installing 2.3, the playback of files in the WMP library to the Squeezebox broke. I have tried going back to WB 2.1, but this does not fix the issue anymore. At some point I did update from SBS 7.7.1 which worked to SBS 7.7.3, but I didn't test WB's behaviour then). I am not sure what is going on, but maybe you'll have an idea.


What type of files are you trying to play from WMP to your SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear)?
In my case, it always worked fine playing WMP native formats to a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear), but I have never been able to get it to work playing non native WMP formats (say flac) to a SqueezePlayer (by Whitebear). You have in the past claimed that Shark add-in codecs allow this playback, but I have never been able to get the Shark codecs to work. (Perhaps you were mistaken about the Shark codecs ever working?)

Wigster
2012-04-22, 13:15
That's the weirdest thing: With version 2.1 (and before) I could play both MP3 and FLAC. Then 2.2 broke the FLAC support and now that I've installed 2.3, mp3s don't work either, it seems in exactly the same way. I've tried going back to no avail, so I've no idea if it's just WB, the fact I changed SBS in the meantime or even the fact that Shark's codes were updated in between.

Playback from Library (by WB) to Squeezebox (by WB) works fine both on MP3 and FLACs being served as PCM.

I've been travelling a lot, so I haven't had as much time to listen to music at home, which is why I am not sure exactly which upgrade/change broke what.

AndrewFG
2012-04-23, 00:27
That's the weirdest thing: With version 2.1 (and before) I could play both MP3 and FLAC. Then 2.2 broke the FLAC support and now that I've installed 2.3, mp3s don't work either, it seems in exactly the same way. I've tried going back to no avail, so I've no idea if it's just WB, the fact I changed SBS in the meantime or even the fact that Shark's codes were updated in between.

... I am not sure exactly which upgrade/change broke what.

Please turn on logging of the Whitebear Http Server, and send me the log file.

Edit: It may also help to clean install LMS and Whitebear by fully uninstalling them, and deleting an orphaned folders. Especially if you have ever installed beta versions of LMS and/or the Perl source code versions.

Wigster
2012-04-24, 13:01
Hi,

So I've completely nuked all the prefs, uninstalled SBS and WB and then reinstalled them. However, now I cannot get WB to connect to SBS: WB is complaining that the CLI connection if offline, even though it does find the CLI server on port 9090.

iPeng works ok, so the CLI interface seems to be ok. There just seems to be something about WB?

Edit: if I restart SBS and WB I sometimes get "Socket Error #10061 / Connection Refused" instead.

Edit 2: After a bunch of restarts, this seems to have cleared itself up. But I am not sure whether it is somehow related to the general problem I have.

I am PM you the HTTP server log resulting from my trying to play a local MP3 file to Squeezebox by WB from WMP-12. Let's try to solve this before looking at the FLACs.

AndrewFG
2012-04-25, 01:11
I cannot get WB to connect to SBS: WB is complaining that the CLI connection if offline, even though it does find the CLI server on port 9090.

Edit 2: After a bunch of restarts, this seems to have cleared itself up. But I am not sure whether it is somehow related to the general problem I have.


This is not related to your general problem. When you start Whitebear, it may take a minute or two to sort itself out. The reason is that initially it does not know the name of your music library, or how many Squeeze players you have connected, or the names of those players. So when it first starts up, takes itself online with SBS/LMS assuming a generic library name, and assuming zero players connected. Then obviously once it is talking to SBS/LMS it can discover the actual name of your music library, how many Squeeze players are connected, and their names. Then the "generic name Whitebear with no players" goes offline again, and the "proper named Whitebear with all named players" must go online. This may take 30..60 seconds to accomplish.



Edit: if I restart SBS and WB I sometimes get "Socket Error #10061 / Connection Refused" instead.


Can you confirm you are running Whitebear as a Windows service application? i.e. installed as "Start when Windows Starts" rather than "Start manually". The #10061 error is "normal" when running Whitebear as a Windows service application: during the above-mentioned online/offline/online phase, the Whitebear Tray Monitor application tries to connect to the Whitebear service application to get its status, and since the service is not yet running, the connection is refused.



I am PM you the HTTP server log resulting from my trying to play a local MP3 file to Squeezebox by WB from WMP-12. Let's try to solve this before looking at the FLACs.


Ok. I will study your PM and get back to you.

Note: in the meantime, I tried un-installing all WMP12 add on filters, codecs, plug-ins (no Shark, no WMP Tag Plus etc.) and in this "pure" native state, the WMP-12 Play To function works perfectly with all of the media formats natively supported by WMP (i.e. Mp3, Wav, Wma, Wmal, and I think also Aac). It is only when you install filters, codecs, plug-ins etc. that the trouble starts. Specifically installing the Shark codec pack does allow you to play flacs locally in WMP12, but it seems to mess royally with the Play To functionality. I believe this is a WMP-12 / Shark issue and not a Whitebear issue...

AndrewFG
2012-04-25, 07:58
Ok. I will study your PM and get back to you.

I believe this is a WMP-12 / Shark issue and not a Whitebear issue...

I studied your log. it shows that WMP is talking to Whitebear, and send many SOAP GetXyz() commands and one single Stop() command to the player. All of these commands are received, understood and acknowledged by Whitebear.

However what the log shows is that WMP does not send a SetAvTransportUri() command to tell the player to load your track. And also it does not send a Play() command to play anything either. This shows clearly that WMP is not sending the commands needed for it to execute the Play To functionality.

This confirms my suspicion that the problem is on the side of your codecs. And not a problem with Whitebear.

NogNeetMachinaal
2012-04-29, 03:39
Hi *,

I sort-off stumbled over this Whitebear Media Server.
At this time, I can not see the benefits on using it allong with LMS.
Can someone enlighten me?


Regards,
Will

toby10
2012-04-29, 04:40
Pretty well explained on the home page. http://www.whitebear.ch/mediaserver

- UPnP/DLNA support for non SB players
- DLNA renderer for SB players
- transcoding to DLNA hardware limited codecs
- no need to run multiple servers (LMS for SB players, another server program for UPnP/DLNA players)

Wigster
2012-04-29, 05:59
A slightly less heterodox use of White Bear is to play music located on any DLNA-supporting machine on the network out through your stereo. Whitebear creates a Media Renderer target that is your Squeezebox which you can use through (for example) Windows Media Player's Play To feature. This way, you don't have to put all your music in the same place and have to rescan everything.

NogNeetMachinaal
2012-04-29, 06:53
A slightly less heterodox use of White Bear is to play music located on any DLNA-supporting machine on the network out through your stereo. Whitebear creates a Media Renderer target that is your Squeezebox which you can use through (for example) Windows Media Player's Play To feature. This way, you don't have to put all your music in the same place and have to rescan everything.

So in other words:
If I have another collection of MP3 stored on my laptop (for example), I can use Whitebear to stream these to the Squeezebox(es) without copying and rescanning.
The Logitech Media Server is used as a sort of proxy server to keep things in sync across multiple players (if more than one).

AndrewFG
2012-04-29, 09:55
So in other words:
If I have another collection of MP3 stored on my laptop (for example), I can use Whitebear to stream these to the Squeezebox(es) without copying and rescanning.
The Logitech Media Server is used as a sort of proxy server to keep things in sync across multiple players (if more than one).

No...

Whitebear does two things:

1) UPnP Digital Media Server: Whitebear allows an open standard UPnP/DLNA compliant Control Point to browse your proprietary LMS/SBS music library. And it serves the respective music tracks in that library to an open standard UPnP/DLNA compliant Digital Media Renderer (player). (So for example you can use your TV Set screen and remote control to browse your LMS/SBS music library (by Whitebear), and select tracks and play them via the TV speakers).

2) UPnP Digital Media Renderer: Whitebear presents all your Squeeze boxes as open standard UPnP/DLNA compliant Digital Media Renderer's (players). This allows other UPnP/DLNA compliant Control Points to play music to your Squeeze boxes by means of the "Play To" functionality.

So if you want to stream Mp3s from your laptop to Squeeze players (by Whitebear) then you need to install a Control Point software on your laptop. Possible Control Points could be FooBar with UPnP Plug-In (free), Asset Control (free), or J. River Media Centre (paid); (there are also various UPnP Control Point apps for the various tablet systems).

NogNeetMachinaal
2012-04-30, 02:29
First of all - thank you for your time and patience - really appreciated!
But still - not completely clear => some more questions. :-)



Whitebear does two things:

1) UPnP Digital Media Server: Whitebear allows an open standard UPnP/DLNA compliant Control Point to browse your proprietary LMS/SBS music library. And it serves the respective music tracks in that library to an open standard UPnP/DLNA compliant Digital Media Renderer (player). (So for example you can use your TV Set screen and remote control to browse your LMS/SBS music library (by Whitebear), and select tracks and play them via the TV speakers).

To my knowledge, LMS is DLNA compliant. Right?
Suppose I would have a TV that is also DLNA compliant and is equiped with control point software, than the combi (LMS & TV) would bring me browsing and playing sound and video. Right?
With this use-case scenario in mind and assuming that I'm overlooking something: what is the value of Whitebear?



2) UPnP Digital Media Renderer: Whitebear presents all your Squeeze boxes as open standard UPnP/DLNA compliant Digital Media Renderer's (players). This allows other UPnP/DLNA compliant Control Points to play music to your Squeeze boxes by means of the "Play To" functionality.

So if you want to stream Mp3s from your laptop to Squeeze players (by Whitebear) then you need to install a Control Point software on your laptop. Possible Control Points could be FooBar with UPnP Plug-In (free), Asset Control (free), or J. River Media Centre (paid); (there are also various UPnP Control Point apps for the various tablet systems).

Ok - this is clear. No further questions here.

AndrewFG
2012-04-30, 03:28
what is the value of Whitebear?


At a basic level, the LMS/SBS DLNA plug-in does the same thing as Whitebear; but IMHO the plug-in is not compatible with some Control Points and Renderers, and it lacks features too. But if the LMS/SBS DLNA plug-in works for you please use it; whereas if it doesn't, disable the plug-in and use Whitebear instead.

NogNeetMachinaal
2012-04-30, 05:30
At a basic level, the LMS/SBS DLNA plug-in does the same thing as Whitebear; but IMHO the plug-in is not compatible with some Control Points and Renderers, and it lacks features too. But if the LMS/SBS DLNA plug-in works for you please use it; whereas if it doesn't, disable the plug-in and use Whitebear instead.

Ah - ok. This helps. :-)

So if I disable the plugin on LMS and install Whitebear, which application serves which request? And how do these two communicate with each other - if at all?

For example, are the Squeezeboxes served by LMS (for example due to the sync-ing).
And the DLNA requests served by Whitebear? Because Whitebear can not keep Squeezeboxes in sync?

Do you understand what I'm trying to figure out?

Does Whitebear have some sort of an interface to configure things. For example to enable or disable broadcasting on all interfaces? Or to configure the transcoding.

AndrewFG
2012-04-30, 08:45
So if I disable the plugin on LMS and install Whitebear, which application serves which request? And how do these two communicate with each other - if at all?

Whitebear provides a UPnP/DLNA open system front end to LMS/SBS proprietary back end. And yes, of course Whitebear talks to LMS/SBS (it uses the "CLI" interface)



For example, are the Squeezeboxes served by LMS (for example due to the sync-ing).
And the DLNA requests served by Whitebear?

The Squeezeboxes are independent devices on the network. The Control Point sends UPnP/DLNA player commands to Whitebear, which in turn sends CLI commands to LMS/SBS, which in turn sends low level proprietray commands to the players. If the command is "play this Url" then the Squeezebox may contact the remote server and download and play that track.



Because Whitebear can not keep Squeezeboxes in sync?

Unfortunately the UPnP/DLNA standard has no functionality for synchronised playing. (Except trivially the Control Point can send the same Play To command to more than one player...)



Does Whitebear have some sort of an interface to configure things. For example to enable or disable broadcasting on all interfaces? Or to configure the transcoding.
Yes. Although UPnP advertisements are sent on all interfaces and there is no function to disable that. And UPnP/DLNA transcoding works by the server (Whitebear) "offerring" multiple formats, and the client selecting its preferred choice from those offers; so the configuration just determines which formats are offerred in which order.

AndrewFG
2012-04-30, 13:33
This confirms my suspicion that the problem is on the side of your codecs. And not a problem with Whitebear.
Hi Wigster,

I found you a solution. I sent you a PM explaining it.
Please test it, and if it works, I will publish it here.

AndrewFG
2012-05-05, 08:04
Setting up Windows Media Player 12 to play FLAC files to a UPnP/DLNA Renderer (Player) via the "Play To" command

Note: the following only works on Windows Media Player 12 running on Windows 7 or Vista

1) Uninstall any previously installed DirectShow codecs related to playing FLAC files; reboot the PC to make sure all is clean.

2) Install WMP Tag Plus http://bmproductions.fixnum.org/wmptagplus/ on your PC; reboot the PC to make sure all is clean.

3) Install this Windows Media Foundation codec http://sourceforge.net/projects/mfflac/files/ on your PC; reboot the PC to make sure all is clean. Note: in my experience it is important to install the codec after installing WMP Tag Plus (probably because both apps make changes to the Windows registry, and the last change sticks).

4a) In Windows Media Player | Organise | Manage libraries | Music => Remove your music folder | Ok
4b) In Windows Media Player | Organise | Manage libraries | Music => Add your (same) music folder | Ok -- wait until the library has reloaded itself...

5) In Windows Media Player | Stream | Automatically allow devices to play my media

6) In Windows Media Player, select a flac file and Play To | Player (by Whitebear) -- for example

7a) Only if 6) does not work: In Windows Media Player | Stream | More streaming options | All Networks | click "unknown device" and if its MAC address is that of your Squeeze box, then Customise | Make all of the media in my library available to this device.

7b) Only if 6) still does not work: In Windows Media Player | Stream | More streaming options | All Networks | for Your Player (by Whitebear) | Customise | Make all of the media in my library available to this device.


Edit: if you are brave and willing there is a new beta version of WMP Tag Plus here http://bmproductions.fixnum.org/links/?linkid=5 that fixes a couple of bugs.

PS if you have already installed WMP Tag Plus and the MFFLAC codec as described above, and also want to use the Play To command for FLAC files from Windows Explorer, you will have to make the following changes/additions in your registry -- WARNING: all the usual caveats about messing with your registry apply!!

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.flac]
@="WMP11.AssocFile.FLAC"
"Content Type"="audio/flac"
"PerceivedType"="audio"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WMP11.AssocFile.FLAC\shellex\Con textMenuHandlers\PlayTo]
@="{7AD84985-87B4-4a16-BE58-8B72A5B390F7}"

bsmith1051
2012-05-08, 21:09
I have LMS 7.7.2 and a Logitech Radio, and have now added a Sony DLNA-compliant box to my home stereo. Using any of the myriad DLNA/UPnP apps on my Android phone, I can see LMS as an available server and both the Sony and the Logitech Radio as available renderers. Isn't this the functionality that Whitebear is supposed to add?

AndrewFG
2012-05-09, 08:12
Isn't this the functionality that Whitebear is supposed to add?

Yes, LMS added this in v7.7 (or v7.6 I don't recall). But Whitebear had it first !!
So you have two options: a) use the LMS UPnP/DLNA plugin, or b) use Whitebear.
IMHO Whitebear still provides better functionality, and faster and mor dynamic support.

batka
2012-05-16, 03:17
Hi Andrew!

I wonder whether is it possible to use Whitebear with a remote Squeezebox Server?

I mean this:
My Squeezebox Server runs on a Linux box (OpenSUSE 12.1).
Then from the Windows PC, I would control the Squeezebox through UPNP, using Whitebear.
It is working if the Whitebear runs on same server as the Squeezebox Server.

Currently, if I understand correctly, Whitebear controls Squeezebox Server only if it is running on same server. In Whitebear settings, the Squeezbox Server HTTP and CLI port can be specified.
However it would be a great feature if the IP also could be specified, so that Whitebear would connect to remote Squeezebox Server.

What do you think?
Thanks
Gyorgy

AndrewFG
2012-05-20, 07:48
I wonder whether is it possible to use Whitebear with a remote Squeezebox Server?
However it would be a great feature if the IP also could be specified, so that Whitebear would connect to remote Squeezebox Server.


Unfortunately this is not possible because Whitebear also needs direct access to the file system on the PC where the SBS music library is located.

Morph666
2012-05-31, 12:59
Hello, and Thanks for a great program!

I really like Xbmc and I really like squeezebox. What would be great is to use xbmc in normal way to play music and send the music to squeezebox. Is this possible in any way? Sorry if i explaine badly. :-)

There is an option to add external player in xbmc:

://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=External_players

AndrewFG
2012-06-01, 11:35
What would be great is to use xbmc in normal way to play music and send the music to squeezebox. Is this possible in any way?


Yes xbmc should be able to Play To your Squeezebox (by Whitebear).
You need to check that it is a fairly recent version that has the capability to stream files as PCM. Otherwise it will only be able to play MP3.

Morph666
2012-06-01, 11:46
Yes xbmc should be able to Play To your Squeezebox (by Whitebear).
You need to check that it is a fairly recent version that has the capability to stream files as PCM. Otherwise it will only be able to play MP3.

Ok, that would be awsome! I have tried to figure out how to do it, but with no luck.. Any idea?

Shredder
2012-06-04, 06:55
Does anyobne know if it is possible to run WB on a Thecus n5200. And, if so, how? Thanks.

IMGrant
2012-06-10, 06:03
Is it possible to customize the names of the Whitebear server and renderers? I don't like that it adds '(by Whitebear)' to the names.

AndrewFG
2012-06-10, 07:16
Is it possible to customize the names of the Whitebear server and renderers? I don't like that it adds '(by Whitebear)' to the names.

Ummm. Well, no... (I don't get paid for this, so the reward is my advertising...)

IMGrant
2012-06-10, 07:31
Ummm. Well, no... (I don't get paid for this, so the reward is my advertising...)

Shame, but that's fair enough I suppose. (Feel guilty for not having donated now, maybe I'll have to rectify that!)

psketch
2012-08-12, 04:33
Hi

I wondered if any progress had been made on xbox360 support with Whitebear and if anyone had it working? Most other clients seem to work nicely with Whitebear, but I can't get the xbox to see the server at all from its Music Player. I've been able to see other UPNP servers on the same server from the xbox, but I really like the Whitebear approach as LMS is my main server and my main devices are all SBs.

When the xbox tries to discover the servers, in the logs I see ....

**** 11:19:55.190 TUPnP_MulticastListener 138 bytes v2.4.0.2890 ****
192.168.1.5:20385 Recv : M-SEARCH * HTTP/1.1
Host: 239.255.255.250:1900
Man: "ssdp:discover"
MX: 2
ST: urn:schemas-microsoft-com:service:MSContentDirectory:1


**** 11:19:55.190 TUPnP_MulticastListener 131 bytes v2.4.0.2890 ****
192.168.1.5:15943 Recv : M-SEARCH * HTTP/1.1
Host: 239.255.255.250:1900
Man: "ssdp:discover"
MX: 2
ST: urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1

repeated 3 times then nothing. Any ideas?

ta

pete S

AndrewFG
2012-08-12, 05:43
I wondered if any progress had been made on xbox360 support with Whitebear and if anyone had it working? Most other clients seem to work nicely with Whitebear, but I can't get the xbox to see the server at all from its Music Player. I've been able to see other UPNP servers on the same server from the xbox, but I really like the Whitebear approach as LMS is my main server and my main devices are all SBs.Unfortunately I don't have an xbox so I cannot test it myself. However perhaps, if you are willing to help me, we can jointly get it to work...


**** 11:19:55.190 TUPnP_MulticastListener 138 bytes v2.4.0.2890 ****
192.168.1.5:20385 Recv : M-SEARCH * HTTP/1.1
Host: 239.255.255.250:1900
Man: "ssdp:discover"
MX: 2
ST: urn:schemas-microsoft-com:service:MSContentDirectory:1


**** 11:19:55.190 TUPnP_MulticastListener 131 bytes v2.4.0.2890 ****
192.168.1.5:15943 Recv : M-SEARCH * HTTP/1.1
Host: 239.255.255.250:1900
Man: "ssdp:discover"
MX: 2
ST: urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1

repeated 3 times then nothing. Any ideas?Did you turn on Whitebear's logging for M-SEARCH Responses? If not can you please try this?

Whitebear does not support the Microsoft proprietary "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:service:MSContentDirectory:1" service, but you should see it sending a response to the "urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1" request...

psketch
2012-08-12, 06:25
Unfortunately I don't have an xbox so I cannot test it myself. However perhaps, if you are willing to help me, we can jointly get it to work...


**** 11:19:55.190 TUPnP_MulticastListener 138 bytes v2.4.0.2890 ****
192.168.1.5:20385 Recv : M-SEARCH * HTTP/1.1
Host: 239.255.255.250:1900
Man: "ssdp:discover"
MX: 2
ST: urn:schemas-microsoft-com:service:MSContentDirectory:1


**** 11:19:55.190 TUPnP_MulticastListener 131 bytes v2.4.0.2890 ****
192.168.1.5:15943 Recv : M-SEARCH * HTTP/1.1
Host: 239.255.255.250:1900
Man: "ssdp:discover"
MX: 2
ST: urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1

repeated 3 times then nothing. Any ideas?Did you turn on Whitebear's logging for M-SEARCH Responses? If not can you please try this?

Whitebear does not support the Microsoft proprietary "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:service:MSContentDirectory:1" service, but you should see it sending a response to the "urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1" request...

Hi Andrew

Yes, happy to work with you on this. I'll enable that logging later and come back to you - shall we switch this to PM for now?

pete S

AndrewFG
2012-08-12, 07:09
Yes, happy to work with you on this. I'll enable that logging later and come back to you - shall we switch this to PM for now?

Great. I will send you a PM now.

vagskal
2012-08-12, 07:16
Andrew,

I posted about an issue I have (metadata/song is sent from MC to LMS but nothing is played) in the JRiver Media Center forum with all details, http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73748.0, and wonder if you could be so kind to have a look when you have the time. Or do you prefer I post here?

Thanks.

AndrewFG
2012-08-12, 10:16
... wonder if you could be so kind to have a look when you have the time. Or do you prefer I post here?

I will look at it and respond in the MC Forum.