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View Full Version : Squeezeplay / Autoswitch sample rates?



paul.raulerson
2011-10-09, 23:24
Is it possible to get autoswitched sample rates and bit perfect output from Squeezeplay, on either Macs or Windows?

Also, does the SQ Touch autoswitch sample rates?

THanks
-Paul

Mnyb
2011-10-09, 23:35
What do you mean by autoswitch ??

Touch outputs the signals own sample rate if you feed it 44.1 it is what would appear on the output likevise with any other rate up to 96kHz if you have material at 192khz or 176.4khz it will be down sampled by Squeezeboxserver to fit the player, output is always 24bit .

keeping volume at 100% or fixed in the settings and not using the smart-gain (repaly gain tags) or cross-fade will give you bitperfect output.

paul.raulerson
2011-10-09, 23:47
What do you mean by autoswitch ??

Touch outputs the signals own sample rate if you feed it 44.1 it is what would appear on the output likevise with any other rate up to 96kHz if you have material at 192khz or 176.4khz it will be down sampled by Squeezeboxserver to fit the player, output is always 24bit .

keeping volume at 100% or fixed in the settings and not using the smart-gain (repaly gain tags) or cross-fade will give you bitperfect output.

That is exactly what I mean, and thank you for the clear and precise answer.

Do you, by any chance know if the software player applications (Squezeplayer) does the same thing on Windows or Macs? Or can be made to do the same thing?

Thanks
-Paul

Mnyb
2011-10-09, 23:56
Not really it depends a lot on the computer in use SqueezePlay may be 48k only nowdays ?

it has no interface to select soundcard or any sound settings like kernel streaming or asio etc , thats one of the reasons it is beta. it originated as as development tool and have limits.
The never made a finished product out of it.

But can be used as a player or controller

It is basically the same software than runs on Touch/Radio/Controller

The Source code is available , if you are a programmer I assume anything could be done ?

Phil Leigh
2011-10-10, 00:02
no... You can't get a free squeezebox by using a PC instead.

paul.raulerson
2011-10-12, 06:16
no... You can't get a free squeezebox by using a PC instead.


Wow- a bit cynical there aren't we?

Mostly there is no local store carrying the Squeezebox Touch, or as far as i can see, any Squeezebox products, so there is no way at all to hear one before buying. You may say that $300 is not that much money, and it isn't I suppose, but it is above my "try this on a lark" threshold.

The little Squeezeplayer software sounds pretty good, though nothing at all like the software I normally use. I had to force it out through a USB Dac on a Mac, rather than through the Mac's built in audio outputs.

If you want cynicism, I wonder really how well a $300 chunk of gear can sound, even avoiding the DAC in the gear and taking the signal out digitally to a decent DAC. Since they don't have them in stock on the Logitech site, I also wonder if they are selling like hotcakes, or if a new model is about to debut for Christmas. I really think I want to order and test one, but I also want the option of sending it back if a new model comes out in two weeks, or in the unlikely chance I just really don't like it.

Also, it is a non-trivial task to make my online music library available to it, since it is currently in iTunes and has a bot of 30K tracks in it. And all in AIFF format, but NOT all with embedded artwork. I don't suppose there is an easy way to get iTunes to drive a Squeezebox?

If it (A Logitech Touch device) operates like the Squeezeplayer, the remote interface on my iPhone is really nice and quick. About as good as Apple's Remote, but without the need to put a Mac or PC anyplace we want sound.

Any particular reason that Logitech doesn't want to finish the software and sell it at $99 a pop or something? That would seem to make sense. The current software emulator is, if I correctly understand, a forever "beta" product, and it is useful to get an idea of what a Squeezebox is and does, but not so useful to get an idea of how one sounds.

At least, I don't think so. I have been known to be wrong once or twice, which is why I asked. I would love to hear your opinion on the above subjects, but honestly, I don't need the SA crap if that is all you are interested in.

Yours,
-Paul

Mnyb
2011-10-12, 08:33
You test drive squeezeplay for usability, but not for sound that is obvius ,it sounds like your computer :)

A good thing with the squeezebox system streaming to dedicated hardware is that it is independent of the computers sound system. The server computer does not even need working sound at all SBS has simply nothing to do with the audio on the computer.

Squeezeplay on the pc will use that pc's sound system.

So it does not matter how good they make the software player you can't compare it with the hw player anyway, apples and oranges .
For obvius reason the hardware Touch will have different drivers as they are purpose made for that hardware and won't work on anything else.

As a digital source a Touch sounds as god as they get, it is above the quality treshold where it can make different, very few digital sources do unless they or the dac is broken.
That does not stop legions of people " hearing " differences ;)

Works fine with my gear sound identical to my DVDA drive who costs > 10 times more money . ican obviusly only compare in stereo as a squeezebox is mainly 2ch.

Price, making a good enough digital source does not cost more than this ? Typical hifi brands may fleece you for more ? Now the analog out is good, but not the best you can get, headphone out is not so hifi, and it is a smal piece of plastic made in china.
Compare that to a botique brand who wants a polished aluminum chassi, that in itself cost more than the Touch.

Phil Leigh
2011-10-12, 08:40
Wow- a bit cynical there aren't we?

Mostly there is no local store carrying the Squeezebox Touch, or as far as i can see, any Squeezebox products, so there is no way at all to hear one before buying. You may say that $300 is not that much money, and it isn't I suppose, but it is above my "try this on a lark" threshold.

The little Squeezeplayer software sounds pretty good, though nothing at all like the software I normally use. I had to force it out through a USB Dac on a Mac, rather than through the Mac's built in audio outputs.

If you want cynicism, I wonder really how well a $300 chunk of gear can sound, even avoiding the DAC in the gear and taking the signal out digitally to a decent DAC. Since they don't have them in stock on the Logitech site, I also wonder if they are selling like hotcakes, or if a new model is about to debut for Christmas. I really think I want to order and test one, but I also want the option of sending it back if a new model comes out in two weeks, or in the unlikely chance I just really don't like it.

Also, it is a non-trivial task to make my online music library available to it, since it is currently in iTunes and has a bot of 30K tracks in it. And all in AIFF format, but NOT all with embedded artwork. I don't suppose there is an easy way to get iTunes to drive a Squeezebox?

If it (A Logitech Touch device) operates like the Squeezeplayer, the remote interface on my iPhone is really nice and quick. About as good as Apple's Remote, but without the need to put a Mac or PC anyplace we want sound.

Any particular reason that Logitech doesn't want to finish the software and sell it at $99 a pop or something? That would seem to make sense. The current software emulator is, if I correctly understand, a forever "beta" product, and it is useful to get an idea of what a Squeezebox is and does, but not so useful to get an idea of how one sounds.

At least, I don't think so. I have been known to be wrong once or twice, which is why I asked. I would love to hear your opinion on the above subjects, but honestly, I don't need the SA crap if that is all you are interested in.

Yours,
-Paul

I wasn't being "cynical", merely pointing out a fact. The whole reason the SB line of products exist is to absolutely avoid having to use any kind of PC as a "player" or audio source.

The Touch as a player sonically exceeds what is generally possible with a computer connected to a DAC via USB or s/pdif. The server software essentially transmits TCP packets to the player and thus the server computer only has to behave as a computer (which it is very good at) and not as an audio source (which it is usually rather poor at). This means that the considerations of things like Amarra are irrelevant to the SB experience. The server operating system and hardware simply isn't any part of what you hear.

SBS integrates with iTunes (sort of) and the two can co-exist. SBS can play AIFF files (although most "Mac people" would use ALAC).

To summarise; using Squeezeplay gives you a vague idea of what the system is capable of in terms of functionality (although really you need to use iPeng or Squeezepad on an iPad/Phone for the fully immersive UI experience). However, audio quality is not usually comparable; Touch with internal DAC or external DAC will exceed what most people can achieve with Squeezeplay and a computer.


Squeezeplay will never be released as a finished commercial product AFAIK. It will continue to have very limited capabilities compared to a hardware player.

garym
2011-10-12, 08:50
I've often noted that if I didn't already have my TRANSPORTER, I would have never purchased it after getting my first TOUCH. And the Transporter was maybe 5 times the cost of the TOUCH and purpose built as an "audiophile" digital music transport.

Mnyb
2011-10-12, 08:52
Amarra , they are in my snake oil list , read the manual they seriously says that email on the same computer as used for music can impact sound quality :)

Phil Leigh
2011-10-12, 08:54
Amarra , they are in my snake oil list , read the manual they seriously says that email on the same computer as used for music can impact sound quality :)

Mad as a box of frogs.

paul.raulerson
2011-10-13, 06:09
I wasn't being "cynical", merely pointing out a fact. The whole reason the SB line of products exist is to absolutely avoid having to use any kind of PC as a "player" or audio source.

The Touch as a player sonically exceeds what is generally possible with a computer connected to a DAC via USB or s/pdif. The server software essentially transmits TCP packets to the player and thus the server computer only has to behave as a computer (which it is very good at) and not as an audio source (which it is usually rather poor at). This means that the considerations of things like Amarra are irrelevant to the SB experience. The server operating system and hardware simply isn't any part of what you hear.

SBS integrates with iTunes (sort of) and the two can co-exist. SBS can play AIFF files (although most "Mac people" would use ALAC).

To summarise; using Squeezeplay gives you a vague idea of what the system is capable of in terms of functionality (although really you need to use iPeng or Squeezepad on an iPad/Phone for the fully immersive UI experience). However, audio quality is not usually comparable; Touch with internal DAC or external DAC will exceed what most people can achieve with Squeezeplay and a computer.


Squeezeplay will never be released as a finished commercial product AFAIK. It will continue to have very limited capabilities compared to a hardware player.

Ehh sorry then. That is actually the kind of information I was looking for. Went ahead and ordered one from Amazon yesterday, it should be delivered today. :)

I probably fall in that mid-level camp, where I can hear differences between DACs - even relatively expensive DACs. (I use a Wavelength Proton here, which is considered inexpensive in some circles. :)

I also own Amarra, Pure Music, and a few other players. They all sound pretty good, but they all seem to have issues with stability. Especially so when my wife and daughter want to listen to music. My daughter is a "special child" who gets frustrated very easily. She also picks her music visually, by the cover art. Usually on an iPhone or iPad with the remote.app.

What attracts me the most to the Touch is that it can handle hi-res music files (24/96 at least) and will stream the music Bit Perfect, which makes me happy. And it supports a nice interface on the iPhone/iPad which makes Mom and Daughter happy.

The "big boy" players, like the Bryston, are out because of their very clunky interface. Some of the higher end players, like Sonore, support SBS natively, which is a big plus. But when using the built in SBS Player (eh - "vortexbox player") and the Squeezebox interface, they won't play gapless music without inserting a gap. I listen to a ton of classical and progressive rock, much of which just isn't right without gapless playback. The Squeezeplay program does gapless when served from a Vortexbox, so I assume the Touch will as well.

I did consider iTunes by itself, but it has no high res streaming, which is a definite minus.

If the Touch works out as well as I hope, it means converting the music library to FLAC I suppose. I could use some advice on that!

I normally just rip to AIFF and embed the artwork. Decompression software from ALAC may or may not make a difference in the way a track sounds, but with disk space being so cheap, why bother?

What do you guys use for a SB server, and what file format works the best for you?

Thanks for the replies by the way, I appreciate them all very much.

-Paul

paul.raulerson
2011-10-13, 06:11
Mad as a box of frogs.

LOL!

Well, if you are in the Austin area, stop by al listen to our modest system. I'll bet you a cold beer you won't have any trouble at all hearing the difference between players and even some cables. :)

-Paul

garym
2011-10-13, 06:15
Ehh sorry then. That is actually the kind of information I was looking for. Went ahead and ordered one from Amazon yesterday, it should be delivered today. :)

I probably fall in that mid-level camp, where I can hear differences between DACs - even relatively expensive DACs. (I use a Wavelength Proton here, which is considered inexpensive in some circles. :)

I also own Amarra, Pure Music, and a few other players. They all sound pretty good, but they all seem to have issues with stability. Especially so when my wife and daughter want to listen to music. My daughter is a "special child" who gets frustrated very easily. She also picks her music visually, but the cover art. Usually on an iPhone or iPad with the remote.app.

What attracts me the most to the Touch is that it can handle hi-res music files (24/96 at least) and will stream the music Bit Perfect, which makes me happy. And it supports a nice interface on the iPhone/iPad which makes Mom and Daughter happy.

The "big boy" players, like the Bryston, are out because of their very clunky interface. Some go the higher end players, like Sonore, support SBS natively, which is a big plus. But when using the built in SBS Player (eh - "vortexbox player" and the Squeezebox interface, the won't play gapless music without inserting a gap. I listen to a ton of classical and progressive rock, much of which just isn't right without gapless playback. The Squeezeplay does gapless when served from a Vortexbox, so I assume the Touch will as well.

I did consider iTunes by itself, but no high res streaming, which is a definite minus.

If the Touch works out as well as I hope, it means converting the music library to FLAC I suppose. I could use some advice on that line! I normally just rip to AIFF and embed the artwork. Decompression software from ALAC may or may not make a difference in the way a track sounds, but with disk space being so cheap, why bother?

What do you guys use for a SB server, and what file format works the best for you?

Thanks for the replies by the way, I appreciate them all very much.

-Paul

Yes, SbS (running on vortexbox, windows, mac, etc.) will play gapless just fine. So I'm a bit confused by your comment that on vortexbox, you don't get gapless. I use vortexbox appliance for my main system and win7(64) for a second system. And the iphone/ipad interfaces are excellent for controlling.

I recommend dbpoweramp for conversion. Not free, but best $30 or so I've spent for ripping/conversion. It will convert your files to FLAC, do dynamic file/directory naming, etc. very powerful. And I do highly recommend going to FLAC from AIFF. (The FLAC files are handled natively in the SB ecosystem, has standard method of tagging, etc. etc.)

paul.raulerson
2011-10-13, 06:26
Yes, SbS (running on vortexbox, windows, mac, etc.) will play gapless just fine. So I'm a bit confused by your comment that on vortexbox, you don't get gapless. I use vortexbox appliance for my main system and win7(64) for a second system. And the iphone/ipad interfaces are excellent for controlling.

I recommend dbpoweramp for conversion. Not free, but best $30 or so I've spent for ripping/conversion. It will convert your files to FLAC, do dynamic file/directory naming, etc. very powerful. And I do highly recommend going to FLAC from AIFF. (The FLAC files are handled natively in the SB ecosystem, has standard method of tagging, etc. etc.)

If you bring up the Vortexbox player on the server, bring up the Squeezebox remote app, select an album and play it, the Vortexbox player inserts a gap between gapless tracks.

Turns out, as I understand it, that if you use mPod or another "native" MPD application, it plays gapless. If you use the SBS application, it does not play gapless. Most frustrating.

The SBS on Vortexbox does appear to play gapless though Squeezbox software and as you note, on SB hardware.

The FLAC stuff is pretty easy to deal with. I probably will just use XLD on a Mac to do the conversions, but I do have a copy of dbPowerAmp as well. I had forgotten about it.

Thanks -Paul

garym
2011-10-13, 06:31
If you bring up the Vortexbox player on the server, bring up the Squeezebox remote app, select an album and play it, the Vortexbox player inserts a gap between gapless tracks.

Turns out, as I understand it, that if you use mPod or another "native" MPD application, it plays gapless. If you use the SBS application, it does not play gapless. Most frustrating.

The SBS on Vortexbox does appear to play gapless though Squeezbox software and as you note, on SB hardware.

The FLAC stuff is pretty easy to deal with. I probably will just use XLD on a Mac to do the conversions, but I do have a copy of dbPowerAmp as well. I had forgotten about it.

Thanks -Paul

I don't use the vortexbox "player" that is part of the vortexbox system, so I can't speak to gapless on that. But vortexbox OS (just a special OS setup with fedora linux) storing my music and running SqueezeboxServer feeds all my hardware SB players (or SqueezePlay, software SB player) with gapless music (FLAC files and some mp3(lame) files). Of this I'm 100% certain.

garym
2011-10-13, 06:36
I don't use the vortexbox "player" that is part of the vortexbox system, so I can't speak to gapless on that. But vortexbox OS (just a special OS setup with fedora linux) storing my music and running SqueezeboxServer feeds all my hardware SB players (or SqueezePlay, software SB player) with gapless music (FLAC files and some mp3(lame) files). Of this I'm 100% certain.

and I should note that I have regular "separate" FLAC files (that is, I don't use single album flac files with CUE sheets, etc.). Again, perfect gapless play (and I have lots of live concerts, etc. that are gapless).

paul.raulerson
2011-10-13, 13:47
and I should note that I have regular "separate" FLAC files (that is, I don't use single album flac files with CUE sheets, etc.). Again, perfect gapless play (and I have lots of live concerts, etc. that are gapless).

That's what I wanted to hear! I plan on going home this evening and having a good listen!

-Paul

garym
2011-10-13, 15:10
That's what I wanted to hear! I plan on going home this evening and having a good listen!

-Paul

enjoy! I think you'll be impressed with the Touch.

paul.raulerson
2011-10-13, 20:48
enjoy! I think you'll be impressed with the Touch.

Wow- color me impressed. It does not sound as good as the Mac does playing though my little Proton, but it sounds damn close.

Listening to the Soundtrack from Twin Peaks right now, and the guitar has a lot of slam and impact. Drat that little midget anyway... (grin)

One question, is there anyway to attach a USB DAC to a Squeezebox device?

-Paul

garym
2011-10-14, 03:36
One question, is there anyway to attach a USB DAC to a Squeezebox device?

-Paul

The Touch is not designed for this but there are some folks experimenting with this, but it is not straightforward and there still seem to be some kinks. see this thread to start:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110&highlight=usb+dac

paul.raulerson
2011-10-14, 12:16
The Touch is not designed for this but there are some folks experimenting with this, but it is not straightforward and there still seem to be some kinks. see this thread to start:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110&highlight=usb+dac

Confounded! I did that hack last night, and it plays like a champion. Beautiful sound, with plenty of clarity, depth, soundstage, separation, and nice black silence wen silence is called for.

Except, and this is a showstopping exception, there are so many transmission problems between my Async Wavelength and the Touch that it sounds like a moderately damaged vinyl record. Snap, Crackle, and Pop indeed!

It seems to be an issue with Async, and unfortunatley, all I seem to really have are async DACs. I do have a little Berringer (sp?) around that has optical and coax inputs, and it works fine, but the sound is -eh- shall we say lacking something?

I'm thinking about picking up a little V-DAC or something until I can afford to buy a Benchmark or other modestly priced DAC.

-Paul

paul.raulerson
2011-10-16, 08:43
I ordered a little Musical Fidelity V-DAC (the original, not the V2) and attached it to the Touch via Coax. I didn't really expect much, but It is putting out jaw dropping sound. Not quite as good as the sound from a Mac/Amarra/Wavelength, but close. Far better than I would have dreamed.

Just color me impressed.

-Paul