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paul44birch
2011-08-27, 12:51
Heard good things about musicIP so tried to install and use it. I think I am doing something wrong. I have followed general install instructions and can now see that all tracks (when viewed through squeezebox server) have a letter M . When I click this it is meant to generate a playlist however all it does is list more information about the track. All help as usual much appreciated.

aubuti
2011-08-27, 12:59
The letter M icon has a new meaning as of SBS 7.6.0 and later. On the left side of the web ui it means "More", which is what you're seeing. On the right side of the web ui (ie, the playlist pane) it means "generate Music IP mix". The balloon "tool tips" also indicate this.

Also note that the M icon in the web ui is but one of many ways of generating a MusicIP mix, depending on the particular player and/or remote you are using.

paul44birch
2011-08-27, 15:19
Thanks but the right side of the web ui (ie, the playlist pane) just shows a play arrowe or a remove x. There is no M. Also what is the balloon "tool tips" that you refer to.

I have a radio, duet with controller, Transporter controlled via app on on iphone plus squeezeplay on my laptop. I am very keen to know the other ways to generate a musicIP mix. Please tell me!

aubuti
2011-08-27, 16:03
If there's no 'M' in the right pane then it's possible you don't have MusicIP installed correctly. That happens a lot.

Try this: on your SB Controller, with an active track in the "Now Playing" screen or a highlighted track in the current playlist, press the "+" button on the SB Controller. Scroll down a ways and you should see an option "Create MusicIP Mix". See what happens when you select that.

The balloon "tool tips" are simply little popups that describe what the button does. For example, on the left side of the SBS web ui, if you hover the mouse cursor over "M" it says "More". Likewise, "+" says "Add to Current Playlist", etc.

paul44birch
2011-08-28, 01:21
I have tried what you suggested but no sign of the "Create MusicIP Mix" option. Looks like it has not installed correctly! I will have another go at installing it.

epoch1970
2011-08-28, 02:51
make sure the musicIP server is up and running before SBS is started. Otherwise SBS does not load the MIP plugin.
In simple terms, verify the MIP server responds on localhost:10002 with your browser. Then restart SBS and you should be good to go.

paul44birch
2011-08-28, 04:01
Hi epoch1970 and thanks for the tip. As I am not too technical please bear with me. Having istalled MusicIP i now have a desktop icon for it. I have therefore stopped SBS and opened MusicIP via the desktop icon. I have then restarted SBS. Unfortunatelly I am still unable to see or use musicIP as there is no reference to it against any albums or tracks. (i did a rescan as well)

I have taken instructions from http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenterThis also refers to to a mip headless which I think allows it to run in the background but the instructions lose me. There is also a site http://www.spicefly.com/squeezeboxmip.html which I think i need to check but again as a music fan first some of the technical jargon makes it difficult to follow.
I run SBS from a PC desktop running windows xp. Also what do you mean by "verify the MIP server responds on localhost:10002"

Cheers

epoch1970
2011-08-28, 05:43
I see. What you want is running the "MIP headless" thing, that is a Java server that has a user interface through a web browser. SBS interacts with this server to generate the playlists, it must be running.
I meant checking this server was running by pointing your browser to http://localhost:10002 (or http://someremotemachine:10002/).
*beware of any clumsy firewall getting in the way*

I remember I was pretty peeved with the documentation when I tried setting up MIP.
I don't use sugarcube, only MIP and the standard SBS plugin. But I think this page:
http://www.spicefly.com/squeezeboxmip/28-mipheadless7.html
can help you in getting a MIP server to run and respond on port 10002.

I use a linux machine so I can't hand you my particular setup as an example.

Words of advice for the next steps:
1) analysis;
- In the slimdevices wiki page there is a case for using "genpuid" to analyze files. genpuid can archive its findings within the tags of music files, which seems a good idea since analysis is such a long process.
I'd recommend against this. I had genpuid destroy some of my tags, and also version issues between MIP and genpuid.
Just leave genpuid alone, go to http://localhost:10002, enter the path to your music files and have MIP discover and analyse the files.
There is one thing you might want to do: specify the location for the MIP database (in mmm.ini), and backup that file from time to time. As an example, this is what I have specified in mmm.ini: "cache=/var/data/audio/MusicIP/default.m3lib"
- Moving music files (or directories) around means a slow analysis must be performed again (since archiving within tags is risky). You'd better be pleased with your file hierarchy beforehand.
- Re-analysis of moved files means the MIP DB will show a duplicate. There is a sorry way of removing duplicates (or deleted files) using MIPs web interface. I think it entails clicking "add music" (sic) and then "refresh songs". Or the other way around. The Total Songs figure should decrease in the end. (The brute force way is to remove the MIP database file.)
- Don't click "Add Music" without having filled the path field next to it. If you leave it empty MIP does not look for the library path it already has in its database. It simply says nothing and does nothing. Don't go wrong specifying the path or you'll add fluff to the MIP database... Hopefully web browsers will auto-complete the field for you.

2) integration with SBS:
- In the standard MIP plugin preferences, you have the choice to import only signature data into SBS and keep the rest of the meta data as seen from the SBS scanner, or to import all meta data from MIP and disregard the SBS scanner. I use the 1st option, that is I mostly rely on SBS. It is faster.
Also, there were issues with file path using accented characters in the past, and a full import of MIP data left many files out in my case. I don't know if the issue is still there (SBS 7.6 has improved things I think), but have a look at the SBS server log when importing. If it fails to find files with funny characters, the workaround is to use plain 7-bit ascii instead for the file names. Renaming takes a bit of time (plus you need to refresh the MIP analysis as you've moved the files) but you'd need to do it once only.
- In the standard SBS plugin preferences, you'll see settings like mix duration that are equivalent to some preferences you can set in mmm.ini or through the web interface of MIP Mix Settings under localhost:10002. The SBS settings *override* whatever you think you've defined within MIP. In mmm.ini I only care for the path of the database. In the ugly web interface of MIP I only care for the "add music", "refresh songs" and "start validation" buttons. for all the rest I use SBS preferences.

And since MIP analysis is so slow, and you want to run a "clear and rescan" from SBS each time to make sure all is well, I'd suggest working on a very small test music library until you see it works well. While you're at it, include in the library an album or file name with an accented character and check what happens in this specific case.

All in all MIP works and SBS does all it can. But nevertheless MIP is closed, abandoned software so you need to learn its quirks and work around it.

paul44birch
2011-08-28, 06:41
Thanks for the long and considered answers. I will take my time to read and understand your suggestions. Having looked further I don't think spicefly is the answer. I will just focus on trying to get musicIP working with squeezebox.

Cheers

aubuti
2011-08-29, 03:33
Hope this isn't "too many cooks", but in addition to epoch1970's good advice, I found this wiki post essential in setting up my headless MusicIP: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter . It's a little complex, but just follow the instructions step by step, and check back here if you get stuck. And don't dismiss Spicefly too readily.

cparker
2011-08-29, 04:33
I run SBS from a PC desktop running windows xp. Also what do you mean by "verify the MIP server responds on localhost:10002"
Cheers

Hi, As you are running Wintel, just install Spyglass from my website and it will setup Headless for you. Ensure you have installed the client .net framework 4 client profile, then just run Spyglass and select the install headless option in the menus. It will then do all the steps and will also test MIP is working correctly.

I'm assuming that you added your music into MIP and did a scan to fingerprint your music first? You must do this first before playing around with SBS or headless.

Cheers

paul44birch
2011-08-29, 06:21
Thanks cparker. Where is your website and what do you mean by "Ensure you have installed the client .net framework 4 client profile"?
I did add my music to MIP and did the scan, however I have since removed the programme with a view to starting again. I notice when first loaded MIP it asks to scan my music, how do I ensure it only scans my FLAC files as I also have itunes on the same pc which my son uses from time to time.

Also this reference to localhost10002 is confusing as I cannot access it

cparker
2011-08-29, 07:57
Thanks cparker. Where is your website and what do you mean by "Ensure you have installed the client .net framework 4 client profile"?

See my signature.. If you run Spyglass and get an error then you will need to install the .net runtime files, these are available via Windows Update.



I did add my music to MIP and did the scan, however I have since removed the programme with a view to starting again. I notice when first loaded MIP it asks to scan my music, how do I ensure it only scans my FLAC files as I also have itunes on the same pc which my son uses from time to time.

Also this reference to localhost10002 is confusing as I cannot access it

If you have uninstalled MIP then it wont work so well ;) When you install MIP it will ask for a directory location of your music, so point it at your FLAC files.

In a web browser you would enter;

http://localhost:10002/

If MusicIP is working headless you will get a web page come up.

paul44birch
2011-08-29, 10:00
Thanks cparker. I have much work to do so looking forward to finding a bit of time and doing it properly.

Thanks to all other advice and as usual I will come back with more questions if I have them.

paul44birch
2011-08-30, 10:07
OK I seem to have cracked it...BUT... I now seem to have lost a lot of my music. Many albums have gone!

The bit I had got wrong was not removing the path entry for Music Folder within SC basic settings so that SC can will get its info from the MiP database.

Within MusicIP settings I have selected Use MusicIP (import all song data from MusicIP (slower)). Is this correct?

Any suggestions as to what is now going wrong?

paul44birch
2011-08-30, 10:30
Back again. A clear and rescan seems to have cured that problem...BUT...I now have duplicate tracks but only in some albums. For example Interpol. Every album has each track twice!

I think I'm getting closer but boy oh boy this has certainly tested my limited abilities.

Thanks for all help but any advice on this last issue?

Phil Leigh
2011-08-30, 11:42
Don't do that!
Set it to only import mixable status and point SBS at your flac folder as the music library.

paul44birch
2011-08-30, 12:50
Thanks, but can you explain why?

The following are the instructions from the Integrating MusicIP with Sqeezecentre(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter)
configure SC to use MiP and remove any references in SC's setup to the library path - SC will take its cue from MiP's database and it will traverse the paths to your audio files as referenced in the MiP DB and find your artwork etc. SC will still take Artist, album and Track data from the audio files themselves. This approach also potentially eliminates SC doing a triple scan - 1st the MiP database, then the folders/ files it points to and then the path you've pointed to in SC's library path. As far as I can ascertain, the last scan would be redundant and just adds to your scanning time which we all know and love as it is :)

MusicIP would not work until I did this.

aubuti
2011-08-30, 12:56
Thanks, but can you explain why?

The following are the instructions from the Integrating MusicIP with Sqeezecentre(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter)
<snip>
MusicIP would not work until I did this.
I realize I directed you to that wiki page, and until now I had forgotten about that part. That wiki page was essential for me getting MusicIP set up, but then I deviated from that part of the recipe and did exactly what Phil suggests. MusicIP is a bit of a black art to me, so my only explanation for "why?" is a simple "because it works", and has been for years. It sees all my music, and doesn't generate duplicates like you're seeing. It may take longer to scan, but so what -- it's not as if I have to hold my breath during the rescan.

Phil Leigh
2011-08-30, 13:08
Thanks, but can you explain why?

The following are the instructions from the Integrating MusicIP with Sqeezecentre(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Integrating_MusicIP_with_SqueezeCenter)
configure SC to use MiP and remove any references in SC's setup to the library path - SC will take its cue from MiP's database and it will traverse the paths to your audio files as referenced in the MiP DB and find your artwork etc. SC will still take Artist, album and Track data from the audio files themselves. This approach also potentially eliminates SC doing a triple scan - 1st the MiP database, then the folders/ files it points to and then the path you've pointed to in SC's library path. As far as I can ascertain, the last scan would be redundant and just adds to your scanning time which we all know and love as it is :)

MusicIP would not work until I did this.

What aubuti said... Because it works if you do that! :-)

paul44birch
2011-08-30, 13:11
OK, just to be clear, Are you suggesting that I go back into SBS settings and reinstate the library path back to my original music files?

Will I need to do anything within the MIP headless interface?

aubuti
2011-08-30, 13:26
OK, just to be clear, Are you suggesting that I go back into SBS settings and reinstate the library path back to my original music files?

Will I need to do anything within the MIP headless interface?
You should reinstate the library path _and_ set MIP/SBS to only import mixable status. I don't have SBS in front of me right now so I can't tell you exactly where that setting is, or even if it's on the MusicIP headless interface or the SBS interface.

paul44birch
2011-08-30, 13:28
OK cheers

Phil Leigh
2011-08-30, 13:56
You should reinstate the library path _and_ set MIP/SBS to only import mixable status. I don't have SBS in front of me right now so I can't tell you exactly where that setting is, or even if it's on the MusicIP headless interface or the SBS interface.

Then do a full rescan...The setting is on the settings - plugins - musk ip page in the web ui

paul44birch
2011-08-30, 15:22
Do you mean a full rescan from the settings - basic settings - Rescan music library (and then choose Look for new and changed music, or Clear library and rescan everything), as their is no option to do a rescan from settings - plugins - musk ip page in the web ui?

If so is the clear library and rescan everything the best option?

bobkoure
2011-08-30, 17:56
If so is the clear library and rescan everything the best option?
Yes.
A 'find changed' scan will do a MusicIP 'mixable status' scan only on those files that have changed. When first starting out, this is not what you want.

paul44birch
2011-08-31, 03:14
At last all seems to be working!! So its a big thanks to all have have offered advise and suggestions. This forum is a great help and has on many occasions, managed to solve my problems and help me to keep my faith in the often frustrating world of Squeezebox.

Cheers

Blisteringblue
2011-09-01, 12:33
Another joining the MusicIP mixing late but since I've lost the Custom Skip for now until Erland updates to 7.6.1 I thought I would have a play.

I have healess MIP working and pointed to my 32000 tracks ok, but is the Validation really that slow? It's done 12000 tracks in 24 hours? So another 2 days before I can do my rescan?

What harm will it do if I rescan without all the validated tracks? I might just try it anyway but figured would ask.

Thanks

aubuti
2011-09-01, 12:37
12k tracks in 24 hours sounds considerably faster than my experience, at least in doing the MIP first-time analysis. I do hope you are saving the MIP data in the tags, so that you won't have to analyze again.

I think the only thing that will happen if you rescan before validation is finished is that the un-validated/un-analyzed tracks will not be available for MIP mixes. I don't see how you can break anything.

Blisteringblue
2011-09-01, 13:26
12k tracks in 24 hours sounds considerably faster than my experience, at least in doing the MIP first-time analysis. I do hope you are saving the MIP data in the tags, so that you won't have to analyze again.

I think the only thing that will happen if you rescan before validation is finished is that the un-validated/un-analyzed tracks will not be available for MIP mixes. I don't see how you can break anything.

Thanks, I did a rescan anyway (loving the speed of 7.6.1 for a full rescan) and the magic "M" icon is available in the correct panel. Picked an obscure 80s track and the first Mix isn't a bad selection so it is working.

I've seen posts advising not to change the tags with analysis as there can be some corruption? Or was that with GENUPID ? Can't remember.

I have noticed I've some duplications of artists now since the rescan because of Case differences in the names (ie to and To) which I don't remember seeing before? Is this a known MusicIP-ism ?

aubuti
2011-09-01, 13:35
Glad to hear it's working. I'm not sure what you've read about tag corruption, but I started using genpuid a few years back for saving the MIP data to my tags, and I wouldn't do it any other way. If you find a link to a relevant thread about the corruption please post it here.

The problem with duplicate artists and cASE differences is almost certainly a consequence of the stricter observance of upper/lower case in SBS 7.6.x, and not something peculiar to MIP.

Blisteringblue
2011-09-01, 13:48
Glad to hear it's working. I'm not sure what you've read about tag corruption, but I started using genpuid a few years back for saving the MIP data to my tags, and I wouldn't do it any other way. If you find a link to a relevant thread about the corruption please post it here.


It was posted in this thread actually helping the original poster to get MusicIP working.

I quote:



Words of advice for the next steps:
1) analysis;
- In the slimdevices wiki page there is a case for using "genpuid" to analyze files. genpuid can archive its findings within the tags of music files, which seems a good idea since analysis is such a long process.
I'd recommend against this. I had genpuid destroy some of my tags, and also version issues between MIP and genpuid.
Just leave genpuid alone, go to http://localhost:10002, enter the path to your music files and have MIP discover and analyse the files.
There is one thing you might want to do: specify the location for the MIP database (in mmm.ini), and backup that file from time to time. As an example, this is what I have specified in mmm.ini: "cache=/var/data/audio/MusicIP/default.m3lib"
- Moving music files (or directories) around means a slow analysis must be performed again (since archiving within tags is risky). You'd better be pleased with your file hierarchy beforehand.
- Re-analysis of moved files means the MIP DB will show a duplicate. There is a sorry way of removing duplicates (or deleted files) using MIPs web interface. I think it entails clicking "add music" (sic) and then "refresh songs". Or the other way around. The Total Songs figure should decrease in the end. (The brute force way is to remove the MIP database file.)
- Don't click "Add Music" without having filled the path field next to it. If you leave it empty MIP does not look for the library path it already has in its database. It simply says nothing and does nothing. Don't go wrong specifying the path or you'll add fluff to the MIP database... Hopefully web browsers will auto-complete the field for you.


I will have a scan through and see just how many cASE changes there are, I can tidy them up before I start the analysis again.

Thanks for your help though.

aubuti
2011-09-01, 14:32
It was posted in this thread actually helping the original poster to get MusicIP working.
Thanks, I'd forgotten that post. epoch1970 knows what he's talking about, so maybe I've just been lucky. But in my own experience the risks are minor relative to the hassles of re-analyzing, so I'll keep writing the data to the tags via genpuid. You can decide for yourself which advice to follow.

epoch1970
2011-09-01, 14:36
Confirmed and signed, I had issues w/ genpuid messing with tags. Plus some version mismatch issue. I don't remember the details.
My 1st intention was to archive tags. I changed that to specifying a path for the MIP DB and backing that up from time to time. I don't move around files, only a few adds and deletes monthly so no biggie.

aubuti
2011-09-01, 14:41
I changed that to specifying a path for the MIP DB and backing that up from time to time.
I do that, too, though not as often as I should. I should move my cache from my home directory on the server to the main music library, so that it gets backed up with the audio files.

mr_hyde
2011-09-01, 14:41
Hey,

I got similar problems with genpuid. It corrupted even some of my mp3s (It is always good to have a backup).

Currently I am using the MIP GUI under windows and archive the tags. I've never observed problems here. Afterwards I copy my music to my NAS and the headless interface scans the new files very fast without need for additional validation.

Blisteringblue
2011-09-01, 14:52
Confirmed and signed, I had issues w/ genpuid messing with tags. Plus some version mismatch issue. I don't remember the details.
My 1st intention was to archive tags. I changed that to specifying a path for the MIP DB and backing that up from time to time. I don't move around files, only a few adds and deletes monthly so no biggie.

Thanks all, I am fairly rigid too with my file paths, and I tend to just add now I'm happy with my files and tags so I will leave it do the analysis without Genpuid.

Although I am tidying a few cAsE differences at the moment before I continue the MusicIP analysis and then another clean scan.

Wish I had found this a while ago as the mixes are a little more structured than the Smart Songs I was playing before 7.6.1 using custom skip/sql playlists until the new SQLlite broke it ;-(

aubuti
2011-09-01, 14:57
Wish I had found this a while ago as the mixes are a little more structured than the Smart Songs I was playing before 7.6.1 using custom skip/sql playlists until the new SQLlite broke it ;-(
I really like MIP mixes. If you haven't done so already, you should be sure to play around with different parameter settings for MIP to see how various settings give you different balances of variety vs "common musical thread".

Blisteringblue
2011-09-01, 15:04
I really like MIP mixes. If you haven't done so already, you should be sure to play around with different parameter settings for MIP to see how various settings give you different balances of variety vs "common musical thread".

LOL, funnily enough I've just been doing that. Currently on Style 100 & Variety 3 and about to press GO ;-)

erland
2011-09-01, 22:45
Another joining the MusicIP mixing late but since I've lost the Custom Skip for now until Erland updates to 7.6.1 I thought I would have a play.

Have I missed something, doesn't Custom Skip work in 7.6.1 ?

Blisteringblue
2011-09-02, 01:01
Have I missed something, doesn't Custom Skip work in 7.6.1 ?

Might have described it wrong, it could just be the sql playlists. Before MusicIP I used sql playlists with I thought used custom skip? Anyway what I ran has stopped working with SQL errors. It used to Skip 1 star 100%, 2 star 75%, 3 star 50%, 4 star 25% but would also play the odd unrated in there with a 25% skip?

You mentioned on another thread that this was something that doesn't work with the new version on SQL in 7.6.1?


One other question for the MusicIP Guru's, what is the difference between saying a song is mixable and the fact it is taking 3 days to analyse all my tracks? Does MusicIP already know about all the tracks for it to say it is mixable? Or is it just a number, minus the genres/types you told it to ignore?

aubuti
2011-09-02, 03:47
One other question for the MusicIP Guru's, what is the difference between saying a song is mixable and the fact it is taking 3 days to analyse all my tracks? Does MusicIP already know about all the tracks for it to say it is mixable? Or is it just a number, minus the genres/types you told it to ignore?
Not sure I understand what the "difference" is between mixable status and length of time it takes to analyze. My (admittedly imperfect) understanding is that the number of mixable tracks is the number of tracks that have been analyzed _and_ determined to be mixable. I am not sure what makes a track un-mixable, but out of my 7000 tracks only 2 are not mixable, so I don't worry about it. If your MIP analysis is still ongoing, then I would expect the reported number of mixable tracks will be less than your total library (maybe substantially so, if there is still a lot of analysis to do), and will continue to be so until the analysis is finished. And 3+ days for 32k tracks is not unheard of.

Blisteringblue
2011-09-02, 03:52
Not sure I understand what the "difference" is between mixable status and length of time it takes to analyze. My (admittedly imperfect) understanding is that the number of mixable tracks is the number of tracks that have been analyzed _and_ determined to be mixable. I am not sure what makes a track un-mixable, but out of my 7000 tracks only 2 are not mixable, so I don't worry about it. If your MIP analysis is still ongoing, then I would expect the reported number of mixable tracks will be less than your total library (maybe substantially so, if there is still a lot of analysis to do), and will continue to be so until the analysis is finished. And 3+ days for 32k tracks is not unheard of.

Thanks, 17k tracks still to analyse !! Should be done by the end of the weekend LOL

mherger
2011-09-02, 03:56
> Thanks, 17k tracks still to analyse !! Should be done by the end of
> the weekend LOL

When I run my first analysis of my (at the time) about 8k tracks, it took
more than a week to finish on my poor Via C3/1GHz box :-)

--

Michael