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slippyr4
2011-07-28, 07:55
http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/28/logitech-ceo-steps-down-after-money-losing-q1-revue-price-slash/

I can't see this as good news for those of us wanting new models of squeezebox. If logitech aren't doing well, then the chances of a new model coming out soon don't seem that great to me :(

castalla
2011-07-28, 08:24
Looks like he mangled the 7.6 server before he left!

vw195
2011-07-28, 08:52
Yes hope Logitech doesnt start slashing alot of stuff!

erland
2011-07-28, 09:07
I can't see this as good news for those of us wanting new models of squeezebox. If logitech aren't doing well, then the chances of a new model coming out soon don't seem that great to me :(

What kind of Squeezebox model are you waiting for ?

verypsb
2011-07-28, 09:15
Boom II
Receiver II
Receiver II with integrated amp
Touch II (bigger screen)
Maybe a preconfigured squeezebox server? (like vortexbox)

plympton
2011-07-28, 09:20
Boom II
Receiver II
Receiver II with amp

This /\ !! And a Classic II - the VFD's on my Classics are starting to get burn-in and could need replacing soon...

erland
2011-07-28, 09:24
Yes hope Logitech doesnt start slashing alot of stuff!
Who knows, maybe it could turn out to something good, maybe they will sell the Squeezebox products to a company that understands what multi room streaming music is all about or maybe they just re-organize themselves so someone that understands streaming music system gets responsible for the Squeezebox products.

pippin
2011-07-28, 09:27
It'll be hard to get worse so maybe it gets better

erland
2011-07-28, 09:34
Maybe a preconfigured squeezebox server? (like vortexbox)

The only advantage of Logitech doing this would be that they can probably lower the price a bit, since they will be able to distribute it to more stores and sell more units. However, I'm pretty sure that in all other aspects the current VortexBox appliance systems are going to offer better and more functionality.

In my mind, it's a lot bigger chance that Logitech realize this as:
- A Touch II (with faster CPU and more memory with a reliable built-in TinySBS)
or
- A Receiver II (with faster CPU and more memory with a reliable built-in TinySBS)

Ikabob
2011-07-28, 09:43
I believe that a Boom11 would be the logical next step. A self-contained stereo device to keep compatible with the Touch and Radio. After all, the Boom is no longer available through Logitech. I have 2 Booms but I would grab up a Boom made on the same platform (is that the correct term?) as the Touch and Radio.

I do not think Logitech would dump the Internet Radio devices. They are the way of the future...imho.

erland
2011-07-28, 10:00
I do not think Logitech would dump the Internet Radio devices. They are the way of the future...imho.

If someone who don't understand them is in charge, that could easily happen if they plan to sell the Revue for $99.

Revue $99:
- Support for video
- Support for music (local and online)
- Support for pictures
- Support for viewing and recording TV

Squeezebox Touch $299:
- Support for music (local and online)

I could easily see someone within Logitech management think, "hmm, why do we need this expensive music box which when we have the Revue which is cheaper and can do so much more..."

Of course, when you know the products it's a different situation, but I doubt there are many (if even anyone) within Logitech management who really understands what the Squeezebox products is all about.

However, if they drop the Harmony remotes, which is mentioned as something they have had problems selling in the linked article in the initial post, I would be very sad, because that really is an excellent product. I wonder if I should get an Harmony One while it still exists...

Hopefully they will just drop the Revue and invest those resources on Squeezebox and Harmony improvements instead :-)

Ikabob
2011-07-28, 10:24
Where is a Revue for $99? Isn't that just speculation....hearsay?

signor_rossi
2011-07-28, 10:32
It's mentioned in the Engadget article, and they may just sell the Revues they have in stock or manufacture until a newer Google TV device pops up (an ARM powered one that is cheaper to manufacture than the Revue is confirmed, I just haven't seen mentioned anywhere if Logitech will distribute it).

erland
2011-07-28, 10:33
Where is a Revue for $99? Isn't that just speculation....hearsay?

Well it's said in the press release from Logitech, so I suspect it's true:
http://ir.logitech.com/common/download/download.cfm?companyid=LOGI&fileid=486484&filekey=4743f0d6-ba2d-4499-a340-d402aaac73a2&filename=Logitech%20Announces%20Q1%20FY%202012%20R esults%20FINAL-Financials%20(1).pdf

But maybe I'm interpreting something wrong.

Mark Miksis
2011-07-28, 10:41
I could easily see someone within Logitech management think, "hmm, why do we need this expensive music box which when we have the Revue which is cheaper and can do so much more..."


Hopefully they will just drop the Revue and invest those resources on Squeezebox and Harmony improvements instead :-)

Yes. The Revue should do more, but IMO is quite a disappointment. As an owner of both, I consider the Squeezebox a much more mature, stable and capable product than the Revue.

JJZolx
2011-07-28, 10:46
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

JJZolx
2011-07-28, 10:50
Maybe the old Squeezebox developers will have more time to devote to Squeezebox Server when they've been let go and are working for other companies.

erland
2011-07-28, 10:54
I think I'll choose to look at this as something possitive, because as pippin said earlier in the thread, it will be hard for them to make it worse than it already is.

scorpio69
2011-07-28, 13:49
What a door stopper this is going to make!!!

This product was doomed from the beginning...should have bought a decent radio instead. 7.6 is f'n crapped up!!

MrSinatra
2011-07-28, 13:58
maybe this is why 7.6 came out now, so they could move on to LMS and support the revue, b/c the revue is "the future" while audio only products are "the past."

i've been saying for a long time now that they needed a cheap audio endpoint, and the revue could be one (with video as a bonus). if they do get honeycomb into it, it could rescue the product.

make no mistake, the current situation is very bleak, and this could all not only end badly, but end quickly. however, a LMS server, that can do upnp / dlna / audio/video and operate with a $99 honeycomb powered endpoint is VERY appealing to me, and i think others, if it in fact works well.

frankly, i'm shocked anyone is buying a touch at all. to me, the writing is on the wall for that kind of thing.

one last point... maybe they will run LMS IN the revue... turn LMS into an android app the way they did SP. just a thought...

Phil Leigh
2011-07-28, 14:22
... I wonder if I should get an Harmony One while it still exists...

Hopefully they will just drop the Revue and invest those resources on Squeezebox and Harmony improvements instead :-)

I've just bought 2 more Harmony One's as backups - they are one of the best devices I've ever bought!

froth
2011-07-28, 14:53
I soon will need to add a couple more music devices to my collection. Unfortunatly this type of news does not make be want to go out an buy a logitech device at the moment. Fortunatly I can wait a few months to see what happens.

What I could use is another boom, touch, plus the addition of a radio since I do not own one yet. I may just buy the radio and wait and see, worse case it can be used via mysqueeze if I decide to go another route for my music system. My existing SB Classics and Boom will go up for sale at that point. I prefer not going with Sonos' due to cost, but at some point the stability of the company does play into the decision.

tamanaco
2011-07-28, 15:36
If someone who don't understand them is in charge, that could easily happen if they plan to sell the Revue for $99.

Revue $99:
- Support for video
- Support for music (local and online)
- Support for pictures
- Support for viewing and recording TV

Squeezebox Touch $299:
- Support for music (local and online)

I could easily see someone within Logitech management think, "hmm, why do we need this expensive music box which when we have the Revue which is cheaper and can do so much more..."

Of course, when you know the products it's a different situation, but I doubt there are many (if even anyone) within Logitech management who really understands what the Squeezebox products is all about.

However, if they drop the Harmony remotes, which is mentioned as something they have had problems selling in the linked article in the initial post, I would be very sad, because that really is an excellent product. I wonder if I should get an Harmony One while it still exists...

Hopefully they will just drop the Revue and invest those resources on Squeezebox and Harmony improvements instead :-)

Interesting.... an equivalent price drop for the existing SB Touch would not be out of line. Btw, I think the review for $99 is a better deal than buying a Harmony One. Correct me if I'm wrong... because I've not read the specs of the Revue in a while. But... if I remember correctly, the Harmony Remote engine is already in the Revue along with IR blasters. All you need are the Harmony discrete codes for your model Squeezebox and AV system to control everything with the Revue remote.

Phil Leigh
2011-07-28, 15:55
Interesting.... an equivalent price drop for the existing SB Touch would not be out of line. Btw, I think the review for $99 is a better deal than buying a Harmony One. Correct me if I'm wrong... because I've not read the specs of the Revue in a while. But... if I remember correctly, the Harmony Remote engine is already in the Revue along with IR blasters. All you need are the Harmony discrete codes for your model Squeezebox and AV system to control everything with the Revue remote.

The Revue and the Harmony One are completely different animals...

tamanaco
2011-07-28, 16:12
The Revue and the Harmony One are completely different animals...

Understood... but the Revue can act as a Universal IR Remote. Run your mouse over the IR blasters ports of the Revue here: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/smartTV/revue -

- Edit: To be honest I'm at a bar with my laptop... so I might not be thinking straight... but I remember changing my mind about buying a Harmony remote at one point because of the Revue. Can't remember exactly why now... maybe it was a Harmony RF remote and I needed an IR blaster to relay IR signals.

garym
2011-07-28, 16:51
From the 2010 financial statements:

Sales of Audio products - $454,957,000
Sales of everything - $1,966,748,000

Audio as a % of total sales - 23%

So this is a large enough segment for the CEO to be thinking about. But I suspect squeezebox products are only a small part of the larger category of "audio products"

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/LOGI/1339129500x0x389966/A71D1F9A-E35E-49F3-BB62-64C5711C5448/2009AR.pdf

erland
2011-07-28, 19:59
I soon will need to add a couple more music devices to my collection. Unfortunatly this type of news does not make be want to go out an buy a logitech device at the moment. Fortunatly I can wait a few months to see what happens.

Just remember that the only thing that's fact is that the CEO is going to change and they have indicated they will lower the price on the Revue. Everything else mentioned here is just guesses.
What do you know about the CEO of any competitor ?
Will Apple change CEO soon (Steve has been a bit sick, you know) ?
Do you even know who is CEO for Sonos ?

I bet there are a lot of guesses also about Apple and Sonos future products, just not on this forum.

erland
2011-07-28, 20:09
Understood... but the Revue can act as a Universal IR Remote. Run your mouse over the IR blasters ports of the Revue here: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/smartTV/revue -

- Edit: To be honest I'm at a bar with my laptop... so I might not be thinking straight... but I remember changing my mind about buying a Harmony remote at one point because of the Revue. Can't remember exactly why now... maybe it was a Harmony RF remote and I needed an IR blaster to relay IR signals.

Harmony One -> Hard buttons combined with small touch screen
Revue -> Touch screen and barely any hard buttons

That makes them a gigantic difference to me.

If one planned to get the Harmony 1000, it would maybe be smart to wait for the lower priced Revue. If you planned to get the Harmony 900 because you need RF, the situation is also a bit different because currently the 900 feels pretty expensive and even more so if you can get a Revue with Wifi remote for $99

Maybe the Revue price drop could affect Harmony prices, but I don't think so. When you read why they are dropping the Revue price you realize it's because it's a new market and they want to establish the product, this isn't they case for the Harmony remotes, they are already in an established market and they have both fairly cheap and more expensive models.

kmr
2011-07-28, 21:42
Just remember that the only thing that's fact is that the CEO is going to change and they have indicated they will lower the price on the Revue. Everything else mentioned here is just guesses.
What do you know about the CEO of any competitor ?
Will Apple change CEO soon (Steve has been a bit sick, you know) ?
Do you even know who is CEO for Sonos ?

I bet there are a lot of guesses also about Apple and Sonos future products, just not on this forum.

with respect to Apple, it appears that Steve Jobs is still very much running the company, and that his health, though taking a lot of his time, is not necessarily precarious. So the Apple-watchers are expecting that Jobs will continue as the head of Apple for quite a while longer.

With the exception of an astoundingly speculative article a couple of weeks ago in the WSJ that seems to have been published to manipulate Apple's stock price, there isn't really any doubt among the analysts about who the next CEO of Apple will be, though - it will be current COO Tim Cook, who is extremely respected inside and outside of Apple.

erland
2011-07-28, 22:31
with respect to Apple, it appears that Steve Jobs is still very much running the company, and that his health, though taking a lot of his time, is not necessarily precarious. So the Apple-watchers are expecting that Jobs will continue as the head of Apple for quite a while longer.

With the exception of an astoundingly speculative article a couple of weeks ago in the WSJ that seems to have been published to manipulate Apple's stock price, there isn't really any doubt among the analysts about who the next CEO of Apple will be, though - it will be current COO Tim Cook, who is extremely respected inside and outside of Apple.

Yes I know, I was just trying to say that unless Steve Jobs (which I respect) or Steve Ballmer (which I don't respect) becomes CEO of Logitech, the CEO of Logitech really have doesn't have much impact if I'll purchase Logitech devices or not. I certainly didn't get a Squeezebox because of the current or previous Logitech CEO.

The CEO might of course have impact on how much resources they spend on music streaming products, but in the end we are all going to be better of if someone who believes, understands and make good economical results on the products, independent if that's Logitech or someone else. If Logitech would downsize music streaming products even more it would just create an opening for some other company to fill the space. So as I said previously, independent of which decisions the new CEO makes regarding music streaming products, most of them are going to be positive in one way or another.

MrSinatra
2011-07-29, 01:21
i actually think it makes some sense for microsoft or google to buy logitech.

however, i think "harmony remotes" are basically obsolete. its already the case that a lot of new products have remote apps run from tablets and phones, etc... much better than even dedicated remotes. tivo has a really cool app for instance. so do some TVs and receivers.

if the revue can bring droid and sbs/lms to your tv/stereo, i see real potential in that.

pippin
2011-07-29, 01:39
You can't replace IR remotes with Apps. An App is not responsive enough.
The Apps excel at more complex tasks (browsing stuff, searching) but they are an epic fail if you look at your TV screen and just want to get rid of a lousy commercial ASAP since you first have to unlock your device, connect to Wifi... you get the point.

Phil Leigh
2011-07-29, 01:45
You can't replace IR remotes with Apps. An App is not responsive enough.
The Apps excel at more complex tasks (browsing stuff, searching) but they are an epic fail if you look at your TV screen and just want to get rid of a lousy commercial ASAP since you first have to unlock your device, connect to Wifi... you get the point.

+100

I know lots of people with Harmony One's and wild horses wouldn't get them to replace the instant response of hard buttons (which you can use WITHOUT LOOKING at the device and taking your eyes off the TV/movie screen) with an "App" of any sort.

The two are simply chalk and cheese...

MrSinatra
2011-07-29, 01:50
i see your point, but for that the cheap remote that comes with the device is sufficient, the harmony seems surperfluous between the native remote and the apps. i find with my droid though, i like using it more (most of the time) than normal remotes.

slippyr4
2011-07-29, 01:53
What kind of Squeezebox model are you waiting for ?

A boom replacement, based on the new (touch, radio) platform.

mherger
2011-07-29, 01:54
> You can't replace IR remotes with Apps. An App is not responsive
> enough.

Hehe... interesting you mention this (and it doesn't only apply to IR
remotes): I still often grab the good old Controller to quickly skip a
track or change the volume, as firing up iPeng/SqueezePad/Controller app
takes too long...

--

Michael

bluegaspode
2011-07-29, 05:17
I still often grab the good old Controller to quickly skip a track or change the volume, as firing up iPeng/SqueezePad/Controller app takes too long...

Mine as well sitting in the cradle. Just waiting for the volume button to be pressed. Much faster than finding the mobile in the pockets when the telephone rings.

tamanaco
2011-07-29, 06:29
Harmony One -> Hard buttons combined with small touch screen
Revue -> Touch screen and barely any hard buttons

That makes them a gigantic difference to me.

If one planned to get the Harmony 1000, it would maybe be smart to wait for the lower priced Revue. If you planned to get the Harmony 900 because you need RF, the situation is also a bit different because currently the 900 feels pretty expensive and even more so if you can get a Revue with Wifi remote for $99

Maybe the Revue price drop could affect Harmony prices, but I don't think so. When you read why they are dropping the Revue price you realize it's because it's a new market and they want to establish the product, this isn't they case for the Harmony remotes, they are already in an established market and they have both fairly cheap and more expensive models.


Well, the Revue also has two hard button remote options: The Mini Controller $129 and the Keyboard $99. http://www.logitech.com/en-us/smartTV/accessories

They "should" lower the price of these accessories given that the Revue has the same price or lower price than its accessories. I'm always reluctant to get the first generation of any gadget because subsequent generations usually have more functionality, have the bugs worked out and are less expensive. That's the reason I did not jump at the Revue in the first place. I considered it as a possible IR Universal Remote, but at $249 it was out of the question. I'd still wait to see how the Honeycomb update enhances the Revue/Google TV experience. I'm also curious to find out if LMS will play a role as a media server for the Revue.

Mark Miksis
2011-07-29, 07:37
> You can't replace IR remotes with Apps. An App is not responsive
> enough.

Hehe... interesting you mention this (and it doesn't only apply to IR
remotes): I still often grab the good old Controller to quickly skip a
track or change the volume, as firing up iPeng/SqueezePad/Controller app
takes too long...

--

Michael

Interesting. I prefer my Harmony for a different reason. When watching TV, perhaps in the dark, nothing beats a good remote with hard buttons. I can mute or pause my DVR without looking at the remote.

pippin
2011-07-29, 09:21
> You can't replace IR remotes with Apps. An App is not responsive
> enough.

Hehe... interesting you mention this (and it doesn't only apply to IR
remotes): I still often grab the good old Controller to quickly skip a
track or change the volume, as firing up iPeng/SqueezePad/Controller app
takes too long...

--

Michael

Doesn't work for me. I find that it's always connected to the wrong player and needs at least a minute to switch.
No, I retired the Receiver, only to be used as a testing device anymore, all other SBs have buttons or work with IR remote when I need them to be off.

pippin
2011-07-29, 09:22
Interesting. I prefer my Harmony for a different reason. When watching TV, perhaps in the dark, nothing beats a good remote with hard buttons. I can mute or pause my DVR without looking at the remote.

That's one of the reason why "multimedia" doesn't work. The use cases for music and video are just too different.

Mark Miksis
2011-07-29, 10:18
That's one of the reason why "multimedia" doesn't work. The use cases for music and video are just too different.

I couldn't agree more. I have 7 Squeezeboxes in my house. Only one is connected to the same system as a TV. Any merger of client functionality between SB and Revue has no interest to me.

Grahame
2011-07-29, 10:55
The Register comments
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/29/google_tv_flop_logitech_pain/

erland
2011-07-29, 12:06
> You can't replace IR remotes with Apps. An App is not responsive
> enough.

Hehe... interesting you mention this (and it doesn't only apply to IR
remotes): I still often grab the good old Controller to quickly skip a
track or change the volume, as firing up iPeng/SqueezePad/Controller app
takes too long...

That's when I use the Harmony remote, the Controller is to far away since I need to have it in the dock for it to have battery when I need it and the Controller dock is not standing in the middle of my living room table. The Harmony on the other hand is placed on the living room table. The Harmony needs to go into its charge station with a few weeks interval, but its battery consumption is no where near the Controller.

Besides this, the Controller isn't able to switch output on my Sherwood amplifier and doesn't understand that it should change the volume on the Sherwood amplifier and not on the Squeezebox Touch.

And on top of this, even if the Controller was able to solve the above, it won't enter my living room table as their is only place for one remote there and the Controller is never going to be able to control all my other IR based devices in a user friendly way, too few hard buttons on it to make that possible.

I could think of mixing:
- A simple Harmony for simple duties
- An iPhone/iPad app with a IR blaster system for more complex operations

The problem is just that any non geeky IR blaster system I've seen so far has been more expensive than the a Harmony remote which can solve all the needs.

Maybe the $99 Revue with included IR-blasters could be an option, if Logitech would sell it outside US.

erland
2011-07-29, 12:20
Hmm, this is kind of interesting:
http://www.itproportal.com/2011/07/29/logitech-regains-guerrino-de-luca-as-ceo/

I quote:


The company now plans to improve its remote control and set-top-box product line and establish itself in the business to business market. Logitech also plans to improve its digital music offerings and focus on peripherals for tablet devices like the Apple iPad.


I wonder what this means, doesn't sound too bad :-)
Not sure if it's just something the article author has made up, but it sounded like it was something coming from a reliable source.

Of course, digital music doesn't have to mean Squeezebox.

JJZolx
2011-07-29, 12:44
Logitech built its success on peripherals. With the old CEO back in charge I would expect a return to that rather than throwing considerably more money into either the Revue or Squeezebox, both of which require a fair amount of dedicated marketing. They also require a sizable shift in consumers' perception of Logitech itself, and that doesn't happen quickly. Expect more iPod/iPad docks and speakers. Acquiring someone like Audioengine would make 10x as much sense for them as continuing Squeezebox development.

With a little luck, maybe they'll sell off the Squeezebox product line. Few of the positive predictions for Logitech & Squeezebox ever came to pass. The economies of scale and Logitech's buying and manufacturing prowess never really brought down pricing. The development and QA teams were greatly expanded for a while, but they burned up all of their energy shoving new products out the door.

Letten
2011-07-29, 13:51
Logitech built its success on peripherals. With the old CEO back in charge I would expect a return to that...

But theres hardly a growing business in selling mice, keyboards and webcams when You look at the all the Touch devices with integrated cameras.

JJZolx
2011-07-29, 13:58
But theres hardly a growing business in selling mice, keyboards and webcams when You look at the all the Touch devices with integrated cameras.

The market for keyboard and mice isn't going away any time soon. True, there probably is not a lot of room for growth.

But with new technology and new devices come new types of peripherals. The key is to follow, not to lead. Logitech has made their money by being a good follower.

aubuti
2011-07-29, 14:01
But theres hardly a growing business in selling mice, keyboards and webcams when You look at the all the Touch devices with integrated cameras.
I sure hope it's a case of poor quote selection by the writer where the article implies that de Luca is counting on tablet owners to buy more external keyboards (and presumably mice) for their newly-stationary laptops.... There's an element of truth to the idea, but it hardly looks like a big growth segment of the market.

“The growth of tablets and iPads will benefit keyboards bought for laptops. People will travel with tablets and use their laptop in a stationary way, which demands more comfortable peripherals,” he said.

Letten
2011-07-29, 14:46
I sure hope it's a case of poor quote selection by the writer where the article implies that de Luca is counting on tablet owners to buy more external keyboards (and presumably mice) for their newly-stationary laptops.... There's an element of truth to the idea, but it hardly looks like a big growth segment of the market.

“The growth of tablets and iPads will benefit keyboards bought for laptops. People will travel with tablets and use their laptop in a stationary way, which demands more comfortable peripherals,” he said.

To mee it's just more "clutter" :-)
- I want less "clutter"
- I want fewer devices
- I want cordless/wireless
- I want inbuilt not seperate/add-ons


I also hope I don't need tons of boxes connected to my TV in the future either - I just want a screen on a wall and some speakers. TV, films, games would just be streaming from the internet.

Philip Meyer
2011-07-29, 16:15
>Hehe... interesting you mention this (and it doesn't only apply to IR
>remotes): I still often grab the good old Controller to quickly skip a
>track or change the volume, as firing up iPeng/SqueezePad/Controller app
>takes too long...

Snap!

My SB3 IR Remote is wearing out - Up/Down buttons need quite a firm press to make contact :-( I don't know I'm going to do then.

epoch1970
2011-07-30, 03:59
Wouldn't it be nice if, say, Amazon would buy the Squeezebox business ?
Perhaps we could have a solid internet service then, and a hi-def store to buy from.
And some new, really slim again, devices.

toby10
2011-07-30, 04:42
God help us! A SqueezeBox Kindle? :)

bullethead
2011-07-30, 08:08
Did they state health reasons? Google TV fever? I bought one, and I am probably the only person who did not return it, heh. Talking 30 million loss? That's huge, I would resign too, but I wouldn't have made the mistake making tons of Google TVs, they made too many. Sony got burnt too. It happens when you bet big on new technology from time to time.

GeeJay
2011-07-30, 08:42
i see your point, but for that the cheap remote that comes with the device is sufficient, the harmony seems surperfluous between the native remote and the apps. i find with my droid though, i like using it more (most of the time) than normal remotes.

I couldn't disagree more. My technologically-challenged family was constantly frustrated by multiple remotes and 'universal remotes' that weren't really universal. The Harmony One is the first device that they have truly mastered.

I agree with the other comments that picking up a remote is a lot easier than waking up the smartphone. As much as my family enjoys their iPhones, there will always be a need for something like the Harmony in our household.