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flattermann
2011-04-22, 08:28
I did not find a thread about this great piece of software, therefore I'll open a new one.

Finally, we do not need these crappy 3rd party apps anymore (they are too fast and too stable anyway), because the official Logi App is now available on iOS as well. ;-)

http://blog.logitech.com/2011/04/21/squeezebox-controller-app-for-ios-now-available/
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logitech-squeezebox-controller/id431302899?mt=0#

SamS
2011-04-22, 08:43
I saw this info too, and was just scanning the Android-version thread.

So is this new iOS version a native app, or does it use the browser somehow? I got the impression that the Android version was not a true native app.

EnochLight
2011-04-22, 09:00
Finally, we do not need these crappy 3rd party apps anymore (they are too fast and too stable anyway), because the official Logi App is now available on iOS as well. ;-)

Umm... I'm guessing you'r being sarcastic? iPeng is a rock solid app that still feels better than the official Logitech offering IMHO.

flattermann
2011-04-22, 09:09
I saw this info too, and was just scanning the Android-version thread.

So is this new iOS version a native app, or does it use the browser somehow? I got the impression that the Android version was not a true native app.

IMHO, it's the same as the Android version, i.e. HTML/JS and not a native app.

That's probably why it feels so slow.

Unfortunately, i cannot test the iOS version right now, because it does not support remote servers... (At least the Android version doesn't.)

Sent from my Galaxy Tab using Tapatalk.

epoch1970
2011-04-22, 09:20
Well I briefly tried it on my iPhone 4, here is what I think:
- It seems to work quite well, snappy and all
- Free is the right price compared to iPeng.

I'm not sure why Logi wouldn't have tried to strike a deal with the 1/3 app developers out here (or did they?), but having an app at last is a good thing for the SB line I think. I believe "sophisticated" users will still go for iPeng or Squeezepad (or <insert your fav app here> heck)

flattermann
2011-04-22, 09:34
I believe "sophisticated" users will still go for iPeng or Squeezepad (or heck)

Sure, it's just the question if there are enough "sophisticated" users out there to justify the future work on the 3rd party apps...

It's hard to compete with free.

Well let's hope for the best...

Sent from my Galaxy Tab using Tapatalk.

epoch1970
2011-04-22, 09:52
Sure. But you have to look at the bright side.

As of now, the app thing is going to be a standard way of managing SBs. And maybe a future generation of SB players will build on that assumption.
So in time plenty of normal people will be enticed to use an app, and not only the nerds or smartphone maniacs.
When there is no competition, there is no market. Logi just has acknowledged there is one, and this must be good.

Now the question is how to make casual users see they can get more from a better app ? Maybe "lite" versions or free trials ? A server plugin that helps users discover the apps in the various stores ?
Also, I certainly do not want to dismiss Logitech's effort here; but their app has clearly its limits, and the competition has a lot to go for itself.

I just tried the app on my iPad (v1). It is still fast enough (as for iPhone 4, I say fast, not "fluid"), but the UI is quite boring on the big screen. Again, I am comparing with iPeng for iPad.

SamS
2011-04-22, 09:57
IMHO, it's the same as the Android version, i.e. HTML/JS and not a native app.

That's probably why it feels so slow.

So what are some other, real-world consequences of an HTML/JS version as opposed to native? And why didn't Logitech make it native in the first place?


because it does not support remote servers... (At least the Android version doesn't.)

Oh that is a bummer. I'm guessing the iOS does not either, both Android and iOS have the same version number.

amcluesent
2011-04-22, 10:26
Seems quick enough on my 3GS and iPad v1. Still quite a bit less functionality that the paid-for apps, as it should be.

SamS
2011-04-22, 10:46
Still quite a bit less functionality that the paid-for apps...

Can you elaborate?

pippin
2011-04-22, 10:46
As of now, the app thing is going to be a standard way of managing SBs. And maybe a future generation of SB players will build on that assumption.
So in time plenty of normal people will be enticed to use an app, and not only the nerds or smartphone maniacs.
When there is no competition, there is no market. Logi just has acknowledged there is one, and this must be good.

Not necessarily.
It's not just about having "any" App, it's also about integration with the App environment on the target device (long term) and that's something you can neither do with a Web App nor with only a single developer for all your platforms.

The good thing is that it will probably help to make the APIs used a bit more stable since now Logitech is going to have the same problems as us 3rd party developers :)


Now the question is how to make casual users see they can get more from a better app ? Maybe "lite" versions or free trials ?

No free trials on iOS.
Been trying to get my head around how a "free" version could look like for a looong time. It has to be fully functional (Apple doesn't allow dummy Apps) yet still give you good reasons to purchase. I didn't find anything.


I just tried the app on my iPad (v1). It is still fast enough (as for iPhone 4, I say fast, not "fluid"), but the UI is quite boring on the big screen. Again, I am comparing with iPeng for iPad.
The _real_ problem here is that THIS is what every media reviewer will use as a reference. And then they compare with Apple and Sonos and then...

I'm still not convinced Logitech are doing themselves a favor here, but then the same is true for understaffing the core dev teams.

epoch1970
2011-04-22, 11:17
It has to be fully functional (Apple doesn't allow dummy Apps) yet still give you good reasons to purchase. I didn't find anything.
The boring ones:
- only one player to choose from at start and no sync
- playlists truncated to 2 albums/30 songs
- a time bomb (is this allowed?)
- no plugin management (no access to lyrics/MiP/Trackstat)
- an AdMob/iAd/whatnot sponsored version

A good one:
- pictures of Coolio in every conceivable posture instead of album art. Guaranteed to drive anyone crazy digging for its credit card.

I repeat: what about setting up a "1/3 party storefront plugin", a simple page with pics, short descriptions, maybe demography statistics, and link to the place where to buy the ware and another link to reach support.
I think this has to be a join effort: one single place to choose from with the free (softsqueeze, etc.) and for-pay software for all platforms.
Maybe this looks redundant with Extension Dowloader. But it's not a matter of downloading, more a matter of showcasing, here.

UPDATE: hah. http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/22/logitechs-squeezebox-controller-app-makes-the-transition-from-a/
Read the last sentence.

)p(
2011-04-22, 11:29
Speed is not that bad on my iphone 4 and ipad 2. The most basic functionality for me is missing...scroll by letter in custom browse and favorites. But it works better then I expected.

pski
2011-04-22, 11:45
IOS?

That runs on Cisco routers, doesn't it?

copperstate
2011-04-22, 12:11
IOS?

That runs on Cisco routers, doesn't it?

Well that's why it is called iOS. :D Apple most probably used the same procedure as usual (e.g. buy the brand from whoever owns it).

Support for iOS <3.2 devices would have been a nice touch, though. :(

pippin
2011-04-22, 12:40
- only one player to choose from at start and no sync

That would be fine for what, 90% of the users?


- playlists truncated to 2 albums/30 songs

How?


- a time bomb (is this allowed?)

Nope. It's not.


- no plugin management (no access to lyrics/MiP/Trackstat)

Then how do you show it's better than Logitech's free App?


- an AdMob/iAd/whatnot sponsored version

THAT could actually be an idea...


A good one:
- pictures of Coolio in every conceivable posture instead of album art. Guaranteed to drive anyone crazy digging for its credit card.

THAT is actually an AWSOME idea :)

ismarketing
2011-04-22, 12:43
It's free, it works well (could be a bit faster), and there is no learning curve since the UI is the same as what you see on the SB device.

It found all four of my SB, and all four of my remotes are now in a drawer.

If I was developer of iPeng, I'd be quite nervous. I say that as someone who found the UI of iPeng very confusing (I played with it for a few days than dumped it) AND quite like free apps that just work.

Bravo Logitech!

mbonsack
2011-04-22, 13:40
I downloaded this and the first thing it asked for was my login to mysqueezebox.com. I use a local SBS; how do you point the app at that? None of my players are connected to SN, and the app made that very clear :-)

Thanks, -mark

amcluesent
2011-04-22, 14:46
> I use a local SBS; how do you point the app at that?<

Just put in your mysqueezebox.com login info, and the app will then find your SqueezeboxServer and you choose a player.

>Can you elaborate?<

It's a re-purposed Touch UI, so nothing smart in handling playlists such as 'party mode'.

ezkcdude
2011-04-22, 15:54
I downloaded it today, and it works great on an iPad 2. And it's free.

mbonsack
2011-04-22, 17:21
> I use a local SBS; how do you point the app at that?<

Just put in your mysqueezebox.com login info, and the app will then find your SqueezeboxServer and you choose a player.



How? My SBS is not on the same net as my wireless LAN (to which the iPad connects), but is reachable via routing. In any case, the app does not see my SBS. Is there any way to enter its IP address manually?

ajkidle
2011-04-22, 17:41
Not necessarily.
I'm still not convinced Logitech are doing themselves a favor here, but then the same is true for understaffing the core dev teams.

Agreed. I don't like to bash the effort here, or the developers remaining on the Logitech SB team, but I don't care for this app. And I get it -- if Logitech has any intention of bringing this product line to the masses (or making it less niche,) it needs an official free app. But it'd be a real shame if this kills off the superior products being developed by 3rd party developers.

I have great respect for the SB developers and the product they've brought to market, but I'll continue to use iPeng to control it all.

maggior
2011-04-22, 18:13
Agreed. I don't like to bash the effort here, or the developers remaining on the Logitech SB team, but I don't care for this app. And I get it -- if Logitech has any intention of bringing this product line to the masses (or making it less niche,) it needs an official free app. But it'd be a real shame if this kills off the superior products being developed by 3rd party developers.

I have great respect for the SB developers and the product they've brought to market, but I'll continue to use iPeng to control it all.

+1

I'll also add, in the spirit of fairness, that this is the initial release of the app. If this app, even though it is free, continues in its current form, Pippin and other's won't have much to worry about :-).

I too worry about the impact of this app on the 3rd party developers. It would be a sad day to see iPeng no longer developed because of a lack of interest/revenue. We will never see playback functionality in Logitech's app due to the competition it would introduce with their hardware, so perhaps iPeng can leverage this as a key differentiator.

kakklank
2011-04-22, 23:45
WTF is logitech's obsession with mysqueezebox.com. I don't see WTF using a wireless remote app has to do with having to connect to mysqueezebox.com. This behaviour and insisting that you have to see that f'ing stupid myapps sh1t in your browser is really irritating. As much as I'm happy with my Transporter, as soon as there's another viable platform I'm done with the whole Squeezebox thing. FFS, it's my music, my bandwidth and my listening experience - leave it the f!ck alone!

realcodeguy
2011-04-23, 00:58
I downloaded the iPad app and it seems better than the android version. However, it won't stop me from using iPeng/SqueezePad. I can see where newer users might skip spending a few dollars for the third party apps though... shame.

)p(
2011-04-23, 04:03
Playing with it some more..its pretty good for a v1 release. I think most people will be pretty satisfied with it and wont be looking for something else. My girlfriend likes it a lot because she mostly tends to use the interface on the touch. I think the best approach for third party develops is to focus on power/experienced users.

The only issues I have seen sofar are that no album covers are shown for spotify. And in the context menu no images show up in the biography/flickr etc. items.

The interface works well. Scrolling is pretty good but not as smooth as I would like. Same with the context menu, the popup being drawn is a bit slow. And it redraws itself when you touch it to scroll which takes away from the experience. And when you scroll the green highlight tends to popup a little to soon when you did not intent to select something.

Suggestion: Add a scroll-bar like on the touch for list that not have one yet...ie favorites, custom browse etc.

erland
2011-04-23, 04:41
Playing with it some more..its pretty good for a v1 release. I think most people will be pretty satisfied with it and wont be looking for something else.

I've only tried it briefly yet but I tend to agree, normal users will get the free Logitech app and think that's how good it's supposed to be, they will never realize the extra usability, speed and features offered by the third party apps.

The features that will continue to be unique to third party apps are:
- playback (not interesting for Logitech)
- usability (Logitech don't have the skills/time to give it focus)
- speed (Logitech don't have the time to give it focus)

Unfortunately I'm not sure this is enough for normal users. It's clearly worth a lot more than $10 for those of us that know which difference it makes, but most normal users will probably not realize this.

It's also going to kill the Controller sales if Logitech decides to market their iOS/Android apps, why get a Controller when you can get a iPod Touch with same features plus touch screen and portable player at same or lower price. Maybe not a big issue as the Controller has felt old for quite some time, but still...



I think the best approach for third party develops is to focus on power/experienced users.

The question is just if that rather small market can generate enough revenue to third party developers to make further development interesting.

This new strategy where Logitech has decided to compete with third party developers worries me a lot. We might soon only have the Logitech provided functionality and then the future of the Squeezebox products aren't looking that good, at least not for advanced users. I really hope I'm wrong...

erland
2011-04-23, 04:46
WTF is logitech's obsession with mysqueezebox.com. I don't see WTF using a wireless remote app has to do with having to connect to mysqueezebox.com. This behaviour and insisting that you have to see that f'ing stupid myapps sh1t in your browser is really irritating. As much as I'm happy with my Transporter, as soon as there's another viable platform I'm done with the whole Squeezebox thing. FFS, it's my music, my bandwidth and my listening experience - leave it the f!ck alone!

It's not strange they want you to register since the switch between SBS and mysqueezebox now happens automatically, the strange thing is that the force me to enter the credentials when my SBS already have them. Would be a lot better to just show a list of SBS instances and ask me to select which one I like to use and then get the mysqueezebox account information from the selected SBS.

bluegaspode
2011-04-23, 04:47
Unfortunately I'm not sure this is enough for normal users. It's clearly worth a lot more than $10 for those of us that know which difference it makes, but most normal users will probably not realize this.

This is, where AppStore comments and ratings come into play.
If we can still have an advantage there, this might work out.
But if people have to decide between a free 4 1/2 star App or another one for whatever price, then there won't be much left.
Lower sales count at lower prices don't justify spending the night hours programming and giving support (of which is 70% explaining how Squeezeboxes work).
Let's wait and see how this develops.

erland
2011-04-23, 04:55
I'm not sure why Logi wouldn't have tried to strike a deal with the 1/3 app developers out here (or did they?)
Probably because they think they can do it cheaper and/or better themselves, which we if course know they can't, at least not better.

I really wish we would see more collaboration between third party developers and Logitech but unfortunately Logitech management doesn't seem to be very interested in collaboration with third party developers.

pippin
2011-04-23, 05:08
(of which is 70% explaining how Squeezeboxes work).


Guess why I never added Receiver setup to iPeng. I even have users that DON'T use iPeng and are telling me Logitech sent them to me about setup issues!!!
To be fair: you have to add at least another 10 for explaining how iThingies, App Store and iTunes work....

amcluesent
2011-04-23, 05:26
Maybe 3rd party developers should be offering a feature-limited free version on the app store, but keep the in-app purchase option for playback. Or is that against Apple's rules?

epoch1970
2011-04-23, 05:30
Maybe 3rd party developers should be offering a feature-limited free version on the app store, but keep the in-app purchase option for playback. Or is that against Apple's rules?
It is. See Pippin's posts on the previous pages.

dborod
2011-04-23, 08:00
This app crashes when displaying the album list (I have a large library)

The artist list stops showing artist names after a while. The list keeps scrolling but nothing is displayed.

I was also annoyed at having to set up a mysqueezebox account. It's possible to do it through the app, but uses a non-mobile optimized web page, and is a horrible user experience.

Given these bugs, I'll keep using iPeng.

mbonsack
2011-04-23, 08:12
I asked earlier but maybe I wasn't clear. How do you select the SBS instance you want to use? When I log into my SN account the app just sits there says it cannot find any players. My SBS instance is on a different net than the players, but the players don't seem to have any problem connecting to SBS when I properly specify its address. Is there no place in this app to specify an IP address of your SBS instance? Does it completely rely on UDP broadcast to find the SBS instance? Lastly, can you manually specify the SBS IP in iPeng and/or SqueezePad?

Thanks for any help, -mark

bluegaspode
2011-04-23, 08:21
Lastly, can you manually specify the SBS IP in iPeng and/or SqueezePad?
Both support configuring an IP manually. There is also no need to register to MySB.com with both Apps

pippin
2011-04-23, 08:21
I asked earlier but maybe I wasn't clear. How do you select the SBS instance you want to use?

You were clear.
But you can't manually set an IP address in the Logitech App.


Lastly, can you manually specify the SBS IP in iPeng and/or SqueezePad?

Yes, in both apps.

mbonsack
2011-04-23, 08:35
You were clear.
But you can't manually set an IP address in the Logitech App.


So with the free app your iDevice is required to be on the same net as your SBS? Is UDP broadcast used to find the SBS instance?

If so that will severely limit the free app's applicability for many folks.

-mark

jmsent
2011-04-23, 08:45
I'm confused by this app. I got it to work no problem for mysqueezebox.com on both my radio and SB3, but it won't give me any access to SBS on my Mac. After logging in to mysqueezebox.com in the app, I get a second log in screen saying "Server (my computer name) requires a username and password". I don't understand which username and password it is referring to. I've tried the mysqueezebox.com, sign in again and that doesn't work. What the h*ll are they talking about?

Phil Leigh
2011-04-23, 11:09
So with the free app your iDevice is required to be on the same net as your SBS? Is UDP broadcast used to find the SBS instance?

If so that will severely limit the free app's applicability for many folks.

-mark

? - I seriously doubt that many people would have devices on different subnets within their house - that is a pretty exotic setup!

raaurora
2011-04-23, 11:36
I wish this was available a year and a half ago when I got my phone. Although I do have to say now that the purchase price of iPeng is a distant memory I like the app quite a bit. I never use the controller any more.

gharris999
2011-04-23, 11:47
As far as I can tell, the Logitech app has no ability to WOL the local SBS server. That's a deal breaker for me. I guess you get what you pay for.

mbonsack
2011-04-23, 12:21
? - I seriously doubt that many people would have devices on different subnets within their house - that is a pretty exotic setup!

Yeah, I guess you're right -- I have a network that has two subnets which supports, as you say, a rather exotic setup including a full VOIP phone system. The wireless AP happens to be on the wrong subnet as far as Squeezebox is concerned. Time to move it or pick up iPeng/Squeezepad.

I still don't like the idea of network software relying on broadcast or other discovery mechanisms to the exclusion of setting parameters manually. Guess you get what you pay for as others have said...

-mark

erland
2011-04-23, 12:31
I wish this was available a year and a half ago when I got my phone. Although I do have to say now that the purchase price of iPeng is a distant memory I like the app quite a bit. I never use the controller any more.

I think anyone who feel that $10 for an app is problematic should start thinking about what their iOS hardware, Squeezebox hardware and receiver/amplifier/speakers costs. An extra $10 to make it possible to take full advantage of the Squeezebox in comparison to what most of us have payed for the surrounding hardware isn't that much. As I've said previously, it's about the same price as a burger meal or two, I'm definitely going to enjoy the Squeezebox music a lot longer than I usually remember a burger meal.

michael123
2011-04-23, 13:05
I installed the app. Very quick, much faster response than from the browser.
That's a BIG plus.

But the UI is rudimentary.. Resembles me iTunes remote application, but lacking..

maggior
2011-04-23, 18:22
This app isn't as bad as I first thought. For some reason yesterday the graphics were narrow and the overlay for the track info was solid black rather than transparent. Now that that is sorted out, it is quite good. It still isn't up to par with ipeng. It does play nicely with squeezecast which is a iOS squeezebox player that will play gapless FLAC.

andyman99
2011-04-24, 01:52
As far as I can tell, the Logitech app has no ability to WOL the local SBS server. That's a deal breaker for me. I guess you get what you pay for.

I don't see this is a real problem. Just use squeezepad to wake up all your devices and then swap to the logitech app - oh and I guess you may need to swap back to shut everything down when you have finished?

One of of my concerns has been that the enthusiast developers of the existing apps might at some point lose interest / move on to other things for one reason or another. So having a proprietary offering is comforting.

However the beauty of squeezepad, which is all I have experience of, is that it improves the usabilty no end. It brings everything together on 1 screen and integrates your own library with external content. It's a much more intuitive experience.

The logitech offering seems a direct port of their terribly outdated looking pc software. Whilst I know this is the first version I think they have missed a trick.

gorman
2011-04-24, 02:25
I am an happy customer of iPeng (much prefer the iPhone interface to the iPad one, I have to say) but frankly I wonder what the developers of iPeng and Squeezepad were thinking it was going to happen.

Did you think for a moment that Logitech would have left Sonos with the free app by itself? Were you hoping for Logitech to buy your code and make a nice amount of money out of it (it would be totally understandable)?

Otherwise, I don't get the... resentment that I perceive in this thread.

Squeezemenicely
2011-04-24, 02:30
Well,
I now have all 3 apps - the iPeng for iPhone, Squeezepad and now the Logitech app.

For many users out there the free app will be exactly what they need.

I am glad I spent money on the 3rd party apps and they work perfectly for me.

It somehow has to be made clear that the Logitech app is sort of entry level and when you want more control and features - you need iPeng or Squeezepad.

I hope that Developers can put this across, otherwise consumers will simply jump the free wagon, which could mean that Developers stop working on their apps - which leaves us app users in the dust.

Giving the Logitech app bad ratings is not the answer, since it works well and I am glad there is now an official app.
All you can do is spread the word in the forums and hope that there will be enough geeks wanting to spend money on apps. I guess most buyers of your apps are from this forum anyway.

All in all you will definitely loose new customers, but I still hope you will continue developing for your loyal customers.

gorman
2011-04-24, 02:32
I'll definitely point out to the existence of iPeng and Squeezepad in my review of the Logitech app. I think all satisfied customers of both app ought to do the same, to keep the market healthy and competitive.

wonder boy
2011-04-24, 02:33
Installed and using this morning, seems as quick and as responsive as iPeng if not more so, not trashing my battery either.

Loaded iPeng to have a qucik compare only to be confronted by the all too often 'synchronising cache' progress bar that seems to take an age to complete, this coupled with no thumb art work prompted me to go back to the free logitech one.

As a company, Logitech and often it's developers are bashed on these forums I for one am grateful for their efforts on this app, thank you. Not sure of their motivation though to produce a free app, altruism alive and well this Easter time?

Squeezemenicely
2011-04-24, 02:49
I find the reviewers who give the Logitech app just 1 star, really unfair.

This will not help promoting the 3rd party apps, there is nothing wrong with the Logitech app - it actually works rather nicely.

amcluesent
2011-04-24, 03:55
>Did you think for a moment that Logitech would have left Sonos with the free app by itself? <

Yep, it's a 'tick box' item now for any supplier of streamers. Logitech had to have this. So many superficial reviewers in the press would have picked up on it this as a differentiator just by reading through the press-pack that falls out their goody-bag at the shows.

Squeezed_Rotel
2011-04-24, 04:01
I have both iPeng and SqueezePad. IMHO, this new "free" app is a swing and a miss. The iPeng and SqueezePad apps have far more real value, I mean really, $10 for quality product vs "free"....free of value is more like it.
My "home" screen is empty save for internet radio and settings. Nothing from my existing SC instance running on my server.
Maybe someone can tell me if a sync is needed to populate the home screen.
If it actually did work like a SC web ui, it might be worth a star or two.

pippin
2011-04-24, 04:06
@gorman

Which resentment?
Actually Logitech's move is totally understandable and at least for me, I have to expected it for a very long time and even knew about it for months.

I personally don't believe doing a web app was a good idea although it
A) is good for web app standards. I've seen much worse ones and some of those were among the headline apps thought to promote web app technology.
B) it's the trend of the day. A lot of companies do that because they believe they can keep development and maintenance costs down and don't have to make platform decisions.

I believe it's a bad idea because it doesn't use the potential of the platforms and long term those, like Aplle and Sonos, who do use it will have an advantage.

My personal resentment with how Logitech is handling things is not with how they handle this App, it's about how they handle their core product line: when was the last new product released? How much staffing do they still have? Ok, MySB did not break down on Easter this year but still, I don't believe the current modus operandi is sustainable.

Kyle
2011-04-24, 04:36
I think anyone who feel that $10 for an app is problematic should start thinking about what their iOS hardware, Squeezebox hardware and receiver/amplifier/speakers costs. An extra $10 to make it possible to take full advantage of the Squeezebox in comparison to what most of us have payed for the surrounding hardware isn't that much. As I've said previously, it's about the same price as a burger meal or two, I'm definitely going to enjoy the Squeezebox music a lot longer than I usually remember a burger meal.

You're right, and you're wrong. Sure, $10 is a nominal price for something that you use every day to enhance your experience with equipment for which you paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars. I happily paid it for iPeng and consider it money well spent. Unfortunately for the third-party developers, $10 is a pretty significant price point in the app world, and I fear there are many who will balk at it when there is a free, albeit vastly inferior, alternative. In taking the Squeezebox from a niche to a mass-market item, Logitech is destroying the spirit on which this product was built and which produced the majority of the early plugins that made the SB what it is today. Remember, however, that those plugins were generally offered to our little community free of charge or at most a voluntary donation. I don't dissuade Pippin and others from trying to get as much as they can for their hard work, but in the app world, $10 is a hefty price, and I fear that with a free alternative now available the third-party developers will be forced to reduce their price or become victims of the SB evolution to a mass product.

erland
2011-04-24, 05:00
One of of my concerns has been that the enthusiast developers of the existing apps might at some point lose interest / move on to other things for one reason or another.

I really don't like to say this but to be honest I think people should be a lot more worried that Logitech will move on to other things than third party developers moving on, more or less Logitech has had focus on other products during the last 2-3 years. The main reason third party developers move away is because they feel that Logitech aren't putting enough resources into maintaining the core of their system (MySB and SBS) and also not focusing on keeping the API's stable/good. As mentioned previously, the Logitech app can hopefully at least contribute in keeping the API's more stable as changing them now will cause problems for Logitech too.

I've no problem with Logitech providing a free app, what I do have problem with is how they do it. They could have provided a free app a lot cheaper and better by just collaborating with existing third party developers and then they would still have resources left to improve the core in their system (MySB and SBS). If Logitech don't want to spend much resources on the products it's really important that they do spend the small amount of time they are willing to spend on the core which will affect everything else and not on extras (like the Android and iOS apps and Facebook integration).

I really hope Logitech at least plans to maintain and improve its iOS app so this isn't just a marketing trick to have a free app and they now focus on something else when it has been released. It would be a pity if maintenance of the Logitech app slowed down to the same speed as the progress we have seen on the server side during the last 2-3 years. It would be even worse if it results in that even less resources than today is spent on the core (SBS and MySB). If you look at more or less every third party offering around the Squeezebox you will see that they have had more releases and more feature additions than any of the Logitech provided stuff. The part where Logitech have done their main contributions is around speed and stability of the core and music services offered through MySB, this is stuff which no one else can do better than Logitech and due to this it's also the area where they should focus their resources. The problem is that they can't do that unless they collaborate with third party developers for the extras, because it's the extras like a Facebook logo or App Store/Android Market logo on the box that makes it easier to sell their products.

erland
2011-04-24, 05:38
Unfortunately for the third-party developers, $10 is a pretty significant price point in the app world, and I fear there are many who will balk at it when there is a free, albeit vastly inferior, alternative.

Yea, the app world pricing doesn't really work for niche markets, the current pricing on most apps are set based on the fact that there are a lot of iOS devices out there. Unfortunately pretty few of these iOS devices are owned by a user that also have a Squeezebox.



In taking the Squeezebox from a niche to a mass-market item, Logitech is destroying the spirit on which this product was built and which produced the majority of the early plugins that made the SB what it is today. Remember, however, that those plugins were generally offered to our little community free of charge or at most a voluntary donation.

Regarding donations, you can't live on it in an niche market, I know this from my own experience. Donations works to keep the interest up and get some extra toy or a free burger now and then but it won't give you food on the table on daily basis, the market is too small for that since you only get donations from the enthusiasts. I would never be here by now if I did third party development for the money, I suspect the main reason plugin/applet developers are still contributing free plugins/applets are to:
1. Solve a problem the developer have in his/hers own setup.
2. Because it feels like they are part of something bigger (this isn't really the case anymore but it were back in the SlimDevices days)
3. Make people happy and get appreciation through donations and friendly words from community members.

I suspect the Android/iOS market related to Squeezebox in many ways works the same as the previously used donation concept, the difference is just that AppStore/Android Market offers a possibility to get an income not just from enthusiasts but also from a few normal users. I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure people like pippin, bluegaspode and flattermann could have earned a lot more by spending their development skills/time on non Squeezebox projects, they probably do this mainly because they want to solve their own music system problems and because it's nice to get appreciation from users using their apps. The economical aspects just makes it a bit more interesting since it's not completely wasted time.



I don't dissuade Pippin and others from trying to get as much as they can for their hard work, but in the app world, $10 is a hefty price, and I fear that with a free alternative now available the third-party developers will be forced to reduce their price or become victims of the SB evolution to a mass product.

I don't think reducing the price is an option, I've pretty sure lowering the price to $5 won't duplicate the number of sold apps.

The enthusiasts are still going to get the third party offerings at $10 or even higher prices.

The users that want a free app are going to get that even if there is a $5 third party offering, if there is a $2 third party offering some might decide to try it but I'm pretty sure lowering the price to $2 won't result in 5 times the current number of sold apps.

If they want to do something with the pricing, they need to find a way where they can charge the enthusiast $10 (most are easily willing to pay even more) and still have a $2 option which is worth to get for the normal users which else would have gotten the free app but still isn't interesting for the enthusiasts. The question is just how to do this without having to do a lot of new development for the $10 option.

bluegaspode
2011-04-24, 06:02
I really hope Logitech at least plans to maintain and improve its iOS app so this isn't just a marketing trick to have a free app and they now focus on something else when it has been released. It would be a pity if maintenance of the Logitech app slowed down to the same speed as the progress we have seen on the server side during the last 2-3 years. It would be even worse if it results in that even less resources than today is spent on the core (SBS and MySB).

Well
it's either Michael improving the iOS/Android App and not working on the core anymore, or
leave the App as it and focus on something else?

Unless Logitech realizes they need more developers to maintain core AND their App now?
Who is working still on the core? Andy doing LMS, Michael doing Apps, Ben doing SqueezePlay stuff (is he still?), leaves just Alan working on OneBrowser?

Let's hope that Logitech Marketing now finally wakes up and is as least starting new campaigns promoting their App soon. Was in the store yesterday (MediaMarkt - big electronics market in germany) and what do I see first? A Sonos S5 well placed and visible, promoted with their free App in the areas of streaming players (similar to how it currently looks on their homepage)
Where did I find the Squeezeboxes? Boom+Radio+Touch(!) somewhere at internet-radios.

And how is Logitech promoting their App? On their WebPage behind all other players (in a land where users never scroll - even if they are able to find the well hidden scrollbar?)


Mhmmm (or should I say *arrrghh*).
Is that all?
Let's sincerely hope, that this is just their first try just using what was there already.
Sonos for instance places a picture of a mobile with the free App on nearly every damn product picture .. so that users just cannot miss it.

Please please Logitech, focus on your assets and just promote them as they deserve it?
Now is a good chance.
One doesn't even need to be creative, just looking at how the competition does it is all that is needed.

mdconnelly
2011-04-24, 07:40
$10 for having had the opportunity and pleasure of using iPeng for a long time now was well worth that investment. But, that aside, there are still two very good reasons to use iPeng:

-- playback
-- remote access

I didn't think either of those were that big a deal until I realized just how great it is to have my full music collection at my disposal when not at home. That's huge!

Sure, the new app is nice and had Logi released that 2 years ago, we may never have seen an iPeng. But they didn't.

onionjack
2011-04-24, 09:25
$10 for having had the opportunity and pleasure of using iPeng for a long time now was well worth that investment. But, that aside, there are still two very good reasons to use iPeng:

-- playback
-- remote access

I didn't think either of those were that big a deal until I realized just how great it is to have my full music collection at my disposal when not at home. That's huge!

Sure, the new app is nice and had Logi released that 2 years ago, we may never have seen an iPeng. But they didn't.

Don't you mean $15 - Playback/remote access is a $5 extra in-app purchase.

GeeJay
2011-04-24, 10:09
I'm going to choose to look on the bright side...at least Logitech is showing some interest in maintaining this product line by introducing an iOS App.

Otherwise, wake me up when they decide to support Party Mode. Oh, wait, that isn't necessary anymore...iPeng already does that!

mherger
2011-04-24, 13:28
> This app crashes when displaying the album list (I have a large
> library)

How many albums?

> The artist list stops showing artist names after a while. The list
> keeps scrolling but nothing is displayed.

How many artists?

--

Michael

dborod
2011-04-24, 14:40
[QUOTE=mherger;627318]> This app crashes when displaying the album list (I have a large
> library)

How many albums?

> The artist list stops showing artist names after a while. The list
> keeps scrolling but nothing is displayed.

How many artists?
/QUOTE]

There are about 5700 artists and 14000 albums. I rebooted my phone (3GS) and was able to view the album list, but it still crashes about half the time.

tktran
2011-04-26, 21:03
Long time lurker, seldom poster.

I've been a Squeezebox user since '07, but followed it's development since it was just Slim Devices, limited availability, Squeezebox 3 era. Having seen the takeover by Logitech, I'm glad they haven't killed it off or run it into the ground.

IMHO the development of an iOS/Android app is expected, and probably a little overdue. I feel that although the Sonos is technically an inferior product, it's marketted and sold far better.

I installed the app on my iPad 2 and gave it a spin. Although it provides fairly basic functionality, if it's as good as the default infra-red remote control that ships the SB's, the vast majority of users have little to complain about. Especially when considering the price.

A third party app will need to deliver a superior experience and/or features to stay viable.

erland
2011-04-26, 22:52
A third party app will need to deliver a superior experience and/or features to stay viable.

To be a bit more specific, do you have any ideas of what kind of extra functionality you (or other users) would need in a third party app to be willing to spend $10 instead of using the free Logitech app ?

KMorgan
2011-04-27, 00:28
This app is good and compares favourably with Squeezepad. Logitech have readily available repeat/shuffle buttons, Squeezepad looks better and has WOL.

The lack of WOL in the Logitech app is a major omission, and a show stopper for me.

Keith

epoch1970
2011-04-27, 01:33
To be a bit more specific, do you have any ideas of what kind of extra functionality you (or other users) would need in a third party app to be willing to spend $10 instead of using the free Logitech app ?

I think it's time to integrate smartphone/tablet features into the experience. By design the Logi app does and probably will closely follow the UI and feature set found in an SB player. I doubt an SB player will integrate a GPS, camera… in the future, so there might be a place for 1/3 party apps there.

- My iDevices know where I am (very much so it seems), so a link to TicketMaster (or equivalents) could be nice
- I believe a paper catalog of the database would be great. I'm not exactly sure of what a page should look like to serve equally well those who think by album and those who think by songs/playlists. But I want a QR code in the corner of the card, be able to flash that with the camera and have the system play. With my iPhone 4 a high density QR code of about 1 inch square (2 to 3 cm) is readable securely with the camera.
I am a bit surprised Apple didn't link its print services to iTunes already. Maybe some legal issues?
- I want anything, be it the server or smart devices, to handle mixing music with system actions. Playlists that start with "IR blaster power on, volume up" and end with the opposite actions. Playlists that store a "continuous loop" tag by default. Playlists that "play this radio for 30 minutes", then "max volume and ring alarm for 10 minutes", then "power off".
I posted a long time ago about this idea, I don't see this is going to happen in the stock SBS anymore, so perhaps a plugin or smart device should do the job.
- I'd like to see the smart device, which is always on, act as a proxy for srvPowerControl. It could gather usage and location data when the server is offline, and help it get smarter the next time it wakes up. "Don't bother the morning alarm and daily db rescan, I'm out of town", "9 times out of 10 this week I was still at home when you entered suspend, and I had to wake you up again to play"
- I'd hate this but I guess an elaborate use of Facebook is possible, and the smart device is the place to do that. A "social MIP" maybe ? "The sound of Paris, this week" (urgh.)
- I'm not sure there is much to do in the area of music recognition ala Shazam. But what about using the integrated mic to use the smart device as a backup when the system says it is playing but no sound can be heard? I see this sometimes when my amp and player goes out of sync, if the device could send another IR blast to check ambiant noise level goes up that could save the day.
I don't know if the mic could support some sort of DRC process but surely walking a room phone in hand is easier than setting up a microphone and fiddling with a PC.
- Smart devices features are also the apps I am using the most. The alarm clock in the morning: "do you want to double that alarm on the SB system?". The iPod app: "so you arrived home, do you want to follow on that playlist on the SB system?". The telephone (at last :): "Someone's calling. Let's mute the SB audio"

And in general it is time to $monetize$ your media space. I don't know where the big audio brands spend their media money but I believe sliding an ad among iPeng screensavers could make sense for them.
Untactful advertising/unsollicited messages fail, but with clear targeting and tasteful integration with the media (the app screens) there might be a value. And this integration level is only achievable by the app developers.
I believe that in order to reach critical mass, all developers should syndicate into a single media network (and share some quality level/ethics by doing so). With that working, a free controller might be possible, instead of the upfront $10 we see today.

One last thing. Not too smartphone-related, and I wouldn't use the feature much as I am not an avid radio listener, but the ability to record programs, as a VCR application does, might make sense.

That's all for today. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth ;)

Letten
2011-04-27, 03:06
Hi,

Most seems to agree that there needs to be a Mobile UI offering.

But some think Logitech should just reuse the existing 3'rd party apps.
And others think they should have created new "real" apps from the ground up.

I can think of a few good reasons for Logitech's decisions:

1. Consistant User experience across SB devices
- moving from controller, Radio, Touch, Boom, Android, Ios should not give fundamentally different experience and control. Most users like it when UI's are consistant.

I know some users here don't understand this because they just spent 150 $ on a SB reciever and use iPeng to control it. But I have spent > 1.000 $ on different SB devices (Duet, Booms, Radio) so I appreciate to have consistant experience across all.


2. Control over User Experience
-unless Logitech actually decided to buy the source code, they wouldn't have full control over user experience.


3. Maintenance
-It's obviously easier to maintain the app's if they don't wonder to far from the rest. They already have quite a few UI's to worry about and they already had a Touch-enableded UI (Touch).

Also keep in mind, this is the first iteration of the App's, perhaps we will see a few tweeks in the future.

Cheers

pippin
2011-04-27, 04:10
1. Consistant User experience across SB devices
- moving from controller, Radio, Touch, Boom, Android, Ios should not give fundamentally different experience and control. Most users like it when UI's are consistant.

That's not an argument. You could have easily done that with a native App or even one of the existing ones.
This App also only LOOKS like the other UIS, it's not using SqueezePlay code.


I know some users here don't understand this because they just spent 150 $ on a SB reciever and use iPeng to control it. But I have spent > 1.000 $ on different SB devices (Duet, Booms, Radio) so I appreciate to have consistant experience across all.

Which you don't, right now, because the UI and even menu structure is different between Booms and Radio/Duet


2. Control over User Experience
-unless Logitech actually decided to buy the source code, they wouldn't have full control over user experience.

Already now they have >50% control over the user experience since they define most of the menus structure and behavior, even for iPeng.
For the rest, the answer to #1 applies.


3. Maintenance
-It's obviously easier to maintain the app's if they don't wonder to far from the rest. They already have quite a few UI's to worry about and they already had a Touch-enableded UI (Touch).

This IS an argument against native Apps in general, which are very hard to combine. Agreed.
But don't be mislead by the Look of the App, this is NOT SqueezePlay. It may share a bit of code with the WebUI, though, not sure about that.

However, I'll be really interested how Logitech will solve that maintenance issue.
In the past, Logitech's strategy has been to match firmware with the server software. You can't do that anymore here. Will be interesting to see what happens when 7.6 comes out: Will you have to update the App to use it then (right now a lot of things don't work with onebrowser)? And will that updated App still work with older server incarnations or will you also have to change your server version?
Or will they finally make the API more stable so that it's able to work with more than one version at a time?

It'll be an interesting experience. We as 3rd party developers have been lobbying for a more stable API for years (myself for at least three) without being heard, maybe this changes if Logitech run into the same issues.

And then there is the one really serious issue with the MySB design I recently learned about and that Logitech obviously has not even noticed at all, I sincerely hope they never really have to cope with it, currently I'm doing a bit of a nasty fix for it although I'm not even sure it applies to iPeng...

mherger
2011-04-27, 04:35
> see what happens when 7.6 comes out: Will you have to update the App to
> use it then (right now a lot of things don't work with onebrowser)? And

What does not work with onebrowser? The latter is what I am running on my
home-server. And it's been fine so far.

--

Michael

pippin
2011-04-27, 05:18
Out of my head:
No album context menus.
No volume control
Had at least one server crash when using the App.

mherger
2011-04-27, 05:25
> No album context menus.

For music services? Did you file a bug? I just saw another one, might be a
dupe actually (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17185). Is this
limited to onebrowser?

> No volume control

How this? Works fine here.

> Had at least one server crash when using the App.

Do you know how it died? I would be surprised if it was able to kill the
server using the app. But I have seen issues (memory leaks) Alan has never
been able to reproduce. He doesn't use the app. So this might be a trace
to follow...

--

Michael

pippin
2011-04-27, 06:21
> No volume control[/color]

How this? Works fine here.

Can't reproduce right now. When I tried it this morning, volume would neither be updated nor could it be changed.
Volume changes always lag a lot behind, but that's probably not onebrowser specific.


Do you know how it died? I would be surprised if it was able to kill the
server using the app. But I have seen issues (memory leaks) Alan has never
been able to reproduce. He doesn't use the app. So this might be a trace
to follow...

Famous last words...


Slim::Utils::Timers::__ANON__ (260) Error: Timer Slim::Web::Cometd::sendResponse failed: illegal file descriptor or filehandle (either no attached file descriptor or illegal value): at /Users/.....onebrowser/server/Slim/Networking/IO/Select.pm line 149.
Segmentation fault

flattermann
2011-04-27, 06:35
Famous last words...


Slim::Utils::Timers::__ANON__ (260) Error: Timer Slim::Web::Cometd::sendResponse failed: illegal file descriptor or filehandle (either no attached file descriptor or illegal value): at /Users/.....onebrowser/server/Slim/Networking/IO/Select.pm line 149.
Segmentation fault


That error seems to be pretty common, I'm getting it constantly every ~20 seconds.
(Without using the Logi App.)

Furtunately, I'm not getting a segfault afterwards. :-)

Edit:
My error is slightly different ("sendResponse" is "__ANON__" for me):


Slim::Utils::Timers::__ANON__ (260) Error: Timer Slim::Web::Cometd::__ANON__ failed: illegal file descriptor or filehandle (either no attached file descriptor or illegal value): at /usr/share/perl5/Slim/Networking/IO/Select.pm line 149.

pippin
2011-04-27, 07:14
Ooops, overlooked that one:

> No album context menus.

For music services?
No, for Albums.


Is this limited to onebrowser?

No idea.

mherger
2011-04-27, 08:17
>> > No album context menus.
>>
>> For music services?
> No, for Albums.

Oh, thanks for the heads up: I had only tested it with services.

--

Michael

erland
2011-04-27, 08:36
In the past, Logitech's strategy has been to match firmware with the server software. You can't do that anymore here. Will be interesting to see what happens when 7.6 comes out: Will you have to update the App to use it then (right now a lot of things don't work with onebrowser)? And will that updated App still work with older server incarnations or will you also have to change your server version?

Just out of curiosity, can't they just force you to upgrade to the latest server if you like to upgrade the app ?
And force you to upgrade the app if you want to upgrade to the latest server ?
And show a user friendly message if the server version isn't compatible.

They have pretty much already done this on the firmware/SBS/MySB combination where you are forced to upgrade the firmware so it matches SBS or MySB to ensure it works correctly and you are more or less forced to upgrade SBS when they upgrade MySB.

It's probably easier for Logitech to synchronize this than third party developers, I guess Logitech can always hold the SBS/MySB release until Apple has reviewed the new app version and when Apple makes the new version available in the AppStore Logitech release the new MySB and SBS version to the public.

However, I do agree that it will be a bit more complicated than today where they have more or less control of the versions used on each device. Hopefully it results in that Logitech needs to be a bit more careful when doing interface changes that aren't compatible in the future.

pippin
2011-04-27, 08:47
Of course they can do that. You can see how happy people are about this today.
Expect people to be even more happy when it's about onebrowser, which does bring quite a few changes a few people might not want.


Plus there is some more to it: will new App versions always support old devices? Or will you then have to use an old server if you've got an old iPhone but you then can't get a new iPad because that would run the new App which only works with the new server? And what about MySB?

I agree it's not a short-term issue.

erland
2011-04-27, 10:16
Of course they can do that. You can see how happy people are about this today.

I'm not saying it's a good idea but neither is the current solution which forces people to upgrade SBS just because Logitech decides to upgrade their central MySB server. Their current choices kind of indicates that "easy" maintenance is sometimes prioritized higher than user satisfaction. Of course, it's probably going to increase their support, so this might stop them to select this path.

I've seen other iOS apps consisting of an app and server part that have forced me to upgrade the server to be able to use the new app, so they wouldn't be the only company choosing a solution like this.

Still, I agree, it's not going to make people happy, especially if they would decide to not support older iOS firmware versions in new app versions.



Expect people to be even more happy when it's about onebrowser, which does bring quite a few changes a few people might not want.

Maybe not the topic for this thread but do you have some specific samples of where you think this might occur. I'm asking since I plan to use onebrowser in plugins so your comment makes me think there is something obvious I've missed. I know there are smaller changes but I haven't noticed any serious change that might cause people to refuse to upgrade.

bluegaspode
2011-04-27, 10:44
Of course they can do that. You can see how happy people are about this today.
I'm happy with any decision that will make people realize that bying a third party App will make their life easier :).

So I have no problem at all with trying to force users to upgrade their App to a new server version.

pippin
2011-04-27, 12:21
@Erland:

Well, some things fall away in one browser, e.g. a lot of the skins.
Personally, I believe one browser is a good thing but I also see how many people still use 7.3.x instead of 7.5.x and that is something I also don't understand, so there are obviously different opinions around.

treble
2011-04-27, 14:09
I feel a lot of people seem a bit negative about the app. I have iPeng, but downloaded the Logitech app as well out of curiosity. And I must say, it works really well! It is fast and very easy to use. However, there aren't as many functionalities as iPeng, like being able to sync/unsync other players. But the lack of advanced features can actually be a good thing, because now it is so simple and straightforward to use, without the sometimes confusing icons iPeng has. I think it is a big hit!

tktran
2011-04-28, 00:00
To be a bit more specific, do you have any ideas of what kind of extra functionality you (or other users) would need in a third party app to be willing to spend $10 instead of using the free Logitech app ?

Erland,

Personally, I have never felt a need for anything more than Slim Device/Logitech's (in-the-box infra-red) remote control.
I have been completely satisfied using it. Downloading the Logitech Controller app was out of sheer curiosity (to find some utility for my iPad 2, other than being a couch based web browser) and finding that it mimic's the bundled remote control's basic functionality was enough. Some people have complained that it's slow; but it sure is smoother and faster than the web based interface via iOS Safari. And I can certainly do basic synchronization of different hardware players (eg. living room and bedroom Squeezeboxes playing the same or different music)

However, I think that the most compelling reason for a person to buy an app to control their Squeezebox from any portable touch-pad based device, would be to have a remote control with a user interface that is consistent with that device's operating system's (iOS, Android) user interface.

So IMHO, an app for an iOS device (eg. iPeng, Squeezepad etc) should have a user interface which is similar to iOS's native interface. And an app for Android should have an interface that is similar to Android interface. These users are also familiar with iTunes and its features. Desirable features included star ratings, automatic album artwork retrieval, cover flow, play similar artists/genres/music ala Squeezescrobbler, retrieval of lyrics, artist biography/discography, critic's reviews, Youtube links, Facebook integration (ala Shazam), direct download of music (or "synchronize") to their iOS device.

It should be easy to install, "just work" out of the box (ie. have all bells/whistles (plugins) work, without having to install/enable/reinstall plugins with each app/Squeezebox Server update)

For instance, I loved your Trackstat plugin, but regular Squeezecenter/Squeezebox server updates later broke it, and I gave up having to keep track of updates and having to reinstall it. Similarly, somewhere along the line my Squeezescrobbler broke as well.
Not to mention each time I do a Squeezebox Server update, all my favourite Server & Player settings are lost.

For people who dislike having to learn multiple user interfaces to control the one product, there is no compelling reason to buy the app. eg. after using the bundled Squeezebox Classic and Boom remotes, my wife dislikes using Squeezeplay on the PC. So these people aren't the target audience who are likely to use an app, free or not.

Perhaps individual developers could get together and form a development team, rather than go at it alone.

regards,
Thanh.

MrSinatra
2011-04-28, 11:10
Erland,

you used to be able to configure a SBR from scratch with SP on the computer. not long after i informed slim of this, they seemingly removed that ability, forcing a user to need a SBC to do so. absolutely evil and stupid thing of them to do.

so one thing that would be nice, would be to put that back in SP, and have it work on these devices and computer.

erland
2011-04-29, 12:09
The only issues I have seen so far are that no album covers are shown for spotify.

I get the album covers in the Spotify browse menus (I'm using Triodes plugin), but the big album cover for currently playing track still doesn't work for Spotify tracks. I'm using an iPad and the big album cover do work in SqueezePad so I think it's related to the Logitech app.

Triode
2011-04-29, 13:11
I get the album covers in the Spotify browse menus (I'm using Triodes plugin), but the big album cover for currently playing track still doesn't work for Spotify tracks. I'm using an iPad and the big album cover do work in SqueezePad so I think it's related to the Logitech app.

Afraid I can't verify this - I can't get it to find my server as its on a different subnet :(

Michael - are you using discovery packets to find the server? If so adding a dialog and then sending the discovery packets to a unicast destination rather than to the broadcast address is all you need to do to support servers on differnet subnets.

)p(
2011-04-29, 13:55
I get the album covers in the Spotify browse menus (I'm using Triodes plugin), but the big album cover for currently playing track still doesn't work for Spotify tracks. I'm using an iPad and the big album cover do work in SqueezePad so I think it's related to the Logitech app.

That what I meant, on the now playing screen. It does not work with both the offical and triode's. It does work correctly with ipeng and ipeng for ipad.

mherger
2011-04-29, 14:26
> Afraid I can't verify this - I can't get it to find my server as its on
> a different subnet :(

Enhancement request #1 (more than removing the mysb.com nag screen...).

Tried to install your plugin to see why it wouldn't work with the large artwork. Unfortunately my Premium status has expired :-(.

Could you please send me a network.cometd log with an example of the playerstatus information which includes the large artwork?

--

Michael

)p(
2011-04-29, 23:46
> Afraid I can't verify this - I can't get it to find my server as its on
> a different subnet :(

Enhancement request #1 (more than removing the mysb.com nag screen...).

Tried to install your plugin to see why it wouldn't work with the large artwork. Unfortunately my Premium status has expired :-(.

Could you please send me a network.cometd log with an example of the playerstatus information which includes the large artwork?

--

Michael

Michael the big artwork on now playing does also not work with the official plugin when run through a local sbs (mine 7.5.4 - r32171). It does work when using mysqueezebox.com

michael123
2011-04-30, 06:11
I am now back to 7.5.4 and the Squeezebox application works..

Yet, the interface is so unintuitive, specifically Search/Playlist

Why that album art shall take half of the usable iPad screen?

I am still sticking to Chrome on my X201 laptop

mherger
2011-05-02, 04:58
> I get the album covers in the Spotify browse menus (I'm using Triodes
> plugin), but the big album cover for currently playing track still
> doesn't work for Spotify tracks.

I'm sorry for this. Handling of non-absolute file paths was broken. And
only Triode's plugin seems to have exposed this issue (so far). It should
be fixed in the next release.

--

Michael

froth
2011-05-02, 08:16
I use iPeng on the touch and iphone. I like iPeng and find it easy to use. However, I do have to say that the Logitech app is the winner in my wife's eyes. She always had issues with selecting players and some navigating. With the logitech app, she has no issues doing what she likes to do. Which is just select a player and the music. She does not care about sync, plugins or lists. For her this is the perfect app.

asdti
2011-05-04, 05:41
Really unusual problem for me - when i load the app it asks for my mysqueezebox username and password, which I key in. It then asks for the username and password for my squeezebox server for my music library. I cannot for the life of me see why it needs this (there isn't one).
Things I have checked:
1. My duets, my iPeng and my Squeemote connect immediately without asking for it
2. I checked in security in queezebox server and I have no password set and access allowed to all devices on my local network
3. I checked my firewall and squeezebox server is given full access
4. I checked windows 7 network sharing and sharing is set to no password

Help? Please!

mherger
2011-05-04, 05:47
> Really unusual problem for me - when i load the app it asks for my
> mysqueezebox username and password, which I key in. It then asks for
> the username and password for my squeezebox server for my music
> library. I cannot for the life of me see why it needs this (there isn't
> one).

Could you please give us some more information about your device (OS
version?), SBS version, server on which SBS is running etc.?

--

Michael

asdti
2011-05-04, 05:55
Hi Michael iOS 4, latest SBS 7.4.1 r32171.

I think (see official Logi threads too) that I'm not the only one. Odd thing is that nothing else (including my two duets) asks for this password/username. If I ignore it, then I get a mySB connection only (and I have to unload the iPhone app and re-download it to try to get into my music library again)

Mark

mherger
2011-05-04, 06:09
> Hi Michael iOS 4,

Which revision?

> latest SBS 7.4.1 r32171.

Latest is 7.5.4...

On what kind of system are you running this?

Is SBS web UI listening on a different port than 9000?

> I think (see official Logi threads too) that I'm not the only one. Odd

Where's that thread?

--

Michael

asdti
2011-05-04, 06:35
Hi Michael

Running on Windows 7 SP1

Same issue happens with firewall running AND firewall completely disabled

Listening on the standard port (nothing changed from default)

I think this is the same issue:
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/MySqueezebox-com-Squeezebox/iOS-application-does-not-display-any-local-music/td-p/614864

Is it anything to do with Homegroups on W7 (I don't use them but I just wondered whether I should? Still doesn't explain why the duet hansets (both of them) have no problem (and iPeng and Squeemote, though?

hvb83
2011-05-04, 06:57
Been using iPeng for almost 2 years now, bought Squeezepad too, both of which have become evolved into fine apps. Out of curiosity I installed the Logitech app yesterday, but got fed-up when I had to enter my online-account. Why would they need that for a controller? Deleted it.

Even still, the way I see it, the situation is good for all of us. Sonos was getting much publicity because their system could be controlled with their free app, now that Squeezebox has something similar, the platform hopefully becomes more popular. And since the pricing is much friendlier, hopefully the system will become mainstream. With that, it gets more interesting for Logitech to finally bring out some new players.

For sure, developers will need to find another way of generating profit out of their apps in order to keep developing. The idea of creating a free/add-version proposed a few pages ago might be a good solution. I don't know about pricing, but I imagine if somebody uses the app for a few months and plays with for half an hour a day, the add-revenues will more than rise over the 7.99 you get when selling the app.

asdti
2011-05-04, 07:06
My bad, Michael - I meant 7.5.4 (the rest of my post above is correct!)

I did also find another post somewhere else specifically about the squeezebox server (not mysb) password username issue!

maggior
2011-05-04, 07:38
FYI, I have found that the Logitech controller app and the iPod squeezebox player Squeezecast play very nicely together! Since iPeng added playback capability, iPeng doesn't play nicely with Squeezecast.

I still use iPeng as my goto controller app, but when I want to listen to music from my server on-th-go around the house, I use the Logitech app.

maggior
2011-05-04, 07:39
I've noticed a couple of annoyances in the Logitech app. I don't recall if anybody else has noticed them:

1) When browsing albums from "new music", you cannot touch-and-hold and get a menu with options to add the album to the playlist. You get this behavior when browsing albums with other methods.
2) When scrolling albums, the artwork does not update until the scrolling has come to a stop.

mherger
2011-05-04, 09:14
> 1) When browsing albums from "new music", you cannot touch-and-hold and
> get a menu with options to add the album to the playlist. You get this
> behavior when browsing albums with other methods.

This should be fixed in the next release.

> 2) When scrolling albums, the artwork does not update until the
> scrolling has come to a stop.

This should be improved too. Though it could still get behind easily.

--

Michael

kjg
2011-05-04, 10:00
Unfortunately, those of us with original iPhones can't use the app since it's iOS 4.0 only. Is there a reason it could not have been made to work with iOS 3 as well?

- Ken

On 4/22/2011 8:28 AM, flattermann wrote:
>
> I did not find a thread about this great piece of software, therefore
> I'll open a new one.
>
> Finally, we do not need these crappy 3rd party apps anymore (they are
> too fast and too stable anyway), because the official Logi App is now
> available on iOS as well. ;-)
>
> http://blog.logitech.com/2011/04/21/squeezebox-controller-app-for-ios-now-available/
> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logitech-squeezebox-controller/id431302899?mt=0#
>
>

copperstate
2011-05-04, 12:20
Unfortunately, those of us with original iPhones can't use the app since it's iOS 4.0 only. Is there a reason it could not have been made to work with iOS 3 as well?


Perhaps they wanted to support iPeng (e.g.) and make it even more attractive? :D

asdti
2011-05-06, 10:01
I managed to get this working - by loading SBS onto a Vista Laptop.
I'm busy troubleshooting, but I think that the app couldn't connect to a Network made of W7 pcs in a Homegroup configuration (even though none of them used passwords to access).

As soon as I loaded it to a Vista laptop it worked fine...

Strangely, however, iPeng, squeemote, and my two Duets could all connect to the W7 one - only the Logi app had issues. Weird?

wonder boy
2011-05-07, 02:39
I have found that if I play something, then go and do something else. When I come back to play an album the app needs killing then re-starting or I just get the spinning wheel constantly after starting play, very annoying.

Squeezed_Rotel
2011-05-07, 03:38
@Erland:

Well, some things fall away in one browser, e.g. a lot of the skins.
Personally, I believe one browser is a good thing but I also see how many people still use 7.3.x instead of 7.5.x and that is something I also don't understand, so there are obviously different opinions around.

Hi pippin,
I stayed with 7.3.4 because it operates flawlessly, and also because I have no Touch or Radio that would require 7.5.x.
I also see on this board many SC 7.5.x users that are unhappy or frustrated by the experience. In my case, I don't think I have anythig to gain by upgrading.

I am very happy that both your iPeng and Bluegaspode's Squeezepad work well with SC 7.3.4. Both apps work absolutely great for me. I tried the new Logitech app...I won't be using it ever again.
I don't beleive either of the third party app developers have anything to worry about.

epoch1970
2011-05-07, 05:52
Hi pippin,
I stayed with 7.3.4 because it operates flawlessly, and also because I have no Touch or Radio that would require 7.5.x.
+1
I also have a lot of CLI stuff I wrote around the 7.1/7.3 days. I remotely maintain the music system in 3 households besides mine.

The IR Blaster+iPeng combination forced me to upgrade to 7.4.2, which was possible without much trouble because I do not use my CLI stuff on my own 24/7 server.

I will try and see if 7.6 is doing good with the pre-Logitech players and feature set. I'm not in a hurry.

pippin
2011-05-08, 16:17
The problem with 7.3 from my perspective is how much code I still have to maintain specifically for it.

From an Squeezeplay-API point of view, 7.3 was a horrid mess, it never worked as the documentation said and was generally pretty inconsistent.
This has much improved since (well, after 7.4 which at least initially was even worse).
iPeng contains a lot of "hacks" in the 7.3 code that are not necessary for newer versions of the server and also not _everything_ works as well with 7.3, there are quite a number of details that don't work as well with 7.3 as with newer version of the server (a lot of context menu stuff, some custom features like adding stuff to favorites in several places and then, of course, there is the cover wall in iPeng for iPad which doesn't work for 7.3's Music Services).

But my point actually only was that you can't just drop support for an older server version, people simply don't just always upgrade...

mherger
2011-05-11, 06:35
> Is it anything to do with Homegroups on W7 (I don't use them but I just
> wondered whether I should?

I've seen the same report in the App Store. If it was you - thanks a lot!
We need to investigate this. If not: you're not alone :-).

I've opened a bug report to track this issue:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17217 - feel free to add your
comments.

--

Michael

johan73
2011-05-13, 11:14
Another half-baked effort from Logitech. I've installed the app on my iPad2. It asks for my log-in to mysqueezebox.com (why??). When I enter the log-in details, it then takes me to the mysqueezebox.com site. From here, its not possible to access my music library.

I tried deleting the app, reinstalled, entered the log-in details again. This time, the app told me my players were not connected (they were). There was no way to leave the page with this message.

Surprised Apple allowed this app in the store. It sucks.

aubuti
2011-05-13, 11:29
Interesting. My experience with the Logitech app on an iPod touch is completely the opposite. Connected fine right away to my local server. It's a fair bit simpler (ie, less full-featured) than iPeng, but I've found it reliable and easy to use. It's a nice step up from the SB Controller. I don't regret paying for iPeng at all, but if this were available before I bought iPeng a few weeks ago I may not have felt the need for iPeng. Or to put it another way, downloading iPeng would not have been the very first thing I did upon receiving the iPod.

)p(
2011-05-13, 13:43
One little cosmetic suggestion. I think lists look best when you see the rectangle of each list item. Because the background is so close to the color of the rectangle with the official app you only see it when you crank up the brightness under normal conditions on my ipad2 and iphone4's.

asdti
2011-06-02, 14:30
OK, so I *think* I know what was happening in my case. I'm not absolutely certain on the following, maybe Michael can confirm?

When you first run the app it asks for login and username for mysqueezebox.com. This is fine and easily keyed-in. My problem (and the problem of others) was that the app then asks for the login ID and username for the local squeeze-server even though there wasn't one, and I couldn't get past this stage in any way, other than by using a different laptop.

So I got to thinking about what had changed and my conclusion is this. Because I was trying to access a library with exactly the same name, but on a different laptop, the app was trying to connect using the previous settings. As soon as I renamed my library all was ok and it found mysb and no longer asked for the login ID and user name. I suspect that on ANY failure to connect, the app asks for a login ID and username, leading users to think that this is actually needed. Rather, I think it is the pp's default response to a failure to connect...

Anyhow, all now works for me under W7 and I'm happy!

arekkusu
2011-07-06, 14:38
Didn't read all the post but I just discovered this.

Tested it on an Ipod 8GB 3rd gen. I've been using iPeng for some time on it.

First thing is that I was surprised I had to provide mysqueezbox.com credential. I have very little interest in the service... been running running a server and using iPeng this no issue. I am right in thinking the service might only word if I have an internet connection?

Anyway, not that big of a deal, entered my account info and it worked fine. I like the fact that the interface is very similar to the squeezebox one. It's really easy to switch player / power on-off...

Performance wise it's definitely not as good as Ipeng... a bit laggy on large menu but still quite usable (I've got about 1300cd). Feature wise it's also behind Ipeng...

EDIT: Actually it really quite bad on the album menu... even froze for a few second when trying to move a bit "too much". They should improve the speed somewhat

What I am actually the most excited about this is that my parents will probably prefer this app.. iPeng seemed of bit confusing to them (but then again they are easily confused). I think the logitech app will make more sense to them.

Personally, I would probably continue to use Ipeng... although to be honest I use squeeze-play on my computer the most these days.
Still a very good effort from logitech... simple to use and perfectly usable. I hope they will continue to support it actively.

mdconnelly
2011-07-06, 14:55
Interesting observations.... I have been an iPeng user (and fan) for a long time, but most of my family including my wife and her new iPad, don't like it. They just don't think it's very intuitive - particularly when it comes to switching between players (I've got 3) or adding albums to a playlist, or controlling whether the playlist is random song selection or in order.

I realize a bit of hand-holding would get them thru it just fine, but they only use it occasionally and just don't find the UI intuitive (or maybe just because it's different from the Touch).

Just my 2 cents....

bluegaspode
2011-07-06, 15:23
Interesting observations.... I have been an iPeng user (and fan) for a long time, but most of my family including my wife and her new iPad, don't like it. ....
This is why I started to write SqueezePad nearly a year ago and why every household has a need for both iPeng and SqueezePad :)

garym
2011-07-06, 15:47
This is why I started to write SqueezePad nearly a year ago and why every household has a need for both iPeng and SqueezePad :)

And why i have both squeeze pad, ipeng, and controller.

erland
2011-07-09, 05:14
Is the Flickr app supposed to work in the Logitech iOS app ?
I just get empty menus while they do work when I view them through the Squeezebox Touch display, for example the "My Apps/Flickr/Interesting Photos" menu.

mherger
2011-07-10, 12:03
> Is the Flickr app supposed to work in the Logitech iOS app ?

Supposed to, yes :-/. I can confirm it's not working.

--

Michael

wt0
2011-07-12, 04:26
Would be a lot better to just show a list of SBS instances and ask me to select which one I like to use and then get the mysqueezebox account information from the selected SBS.

I don't think there's a way in the api for controllers to retrieve the mysb account info, but I haven't looked that deeply into the api in while so I could wrong.

wt0
2011-07-12, 04:28
> Is the Flickr app supposed to work in the Logitech iOS app ?

Supposed to, yes :-/. I can confirm it's not working.

--

Michael

I briefly played with the Logitech app and I think Show Artwork doesn't work either. The app probably doesn't have an image browser built-in.

erland
2011-07-12, 04:44
I briefly played with the Logitech app and I think Show Artwork doesn't work either. The app probably doesn't have an image browser built-in.

Show Artwork kind of works for me (on iPad) besides the fact that half of the large artwork is displayed behind the artwork of currently playing track. But the Biography third party plugin does not seem to be able to show large pictures, I only get the default album cover picture when I try to view a large artist image.

gbruzzo
2011-07-12, 04:48
Umm... I'm guessing you'r being sarcastic? iPeng is a rock solid app that still feels better than the official Logitech offering IMHO.

Ipeng for Ipad is leagues ahead of the official app, which is TERRIBLE on the iPad.

Ipeng on the Ipad is the best controller I have ever tried. Immediate, intuitive, truly geared towards clever navigation of one's library

Giacomo

mherger
2011-07-12, 21:30
> Show Artwork kind of works for me (on iPad) besides the fact that half
> of the large artwork is displayed behind the artwork of currently
> playing track. But the Biography third party plugin does not seem to be
> able to show large pictures, I only get the default album cover picture
> when I try to view a large artist image.

Erland - could you please file a bug? I know... but still...

--

Michael

erland
2011-07-12, 21:49
> Show Artwork kind of works for me (on iPad) besides the fact that half
> of the large artwork is displayed behind the artwork of currently
> playing track. But the Biography third party plugin does not seem to be
> able to show large pictures, I only get the default album cover picture
> when I try to view a large artist image.

Erland - could you please file a bug? I know... but still...

--

Michael

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17308
(It got assigned to Ben automatically, I suppose you may want to change bugzilla configuration so it assigns it to someone what works for Logitech)

Let me know if you want one for the Biography plugin also, I just assumed you don't want that in Logitech's bug database since it's really a third party plugin.

mherger
2011-07-12, 23:21
> http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17308
> (It got assigned to Ben automatically, I suppose you may want to change
> bugzilla configuration so it assigns it to someone what works for
> Logitech)

Thanks, did so.

> Let me know if you want one for the Biography plugin also, I just
> assumed you don't want that in Logitech's bug database since it's
> really a third party plugin.

No bug report required, thanks. When I get to work on this issue again
I'll test it anyway with my plugin ;-).

--

Michael

Mnyb
2011-08-21, 01:18
i finally tested this app.

No, use SqueezePad or iPeng if you have an iSomething.

scrolling is to juddery to be used .

graphically it looks homemade, does not make use of the iPad screen at all.
this UI may be somewhat ok on the Touch or tiny controller or radio screens.
it's slow . it also suffers if the other apps are running if you run iPeng and SqueezePad simultaniusly you don't se much penalty for that, maybe a bit more sluggish response, but it really shows with this app.

IPeng and SqueezePad offers a much better experience and nice features.
Like iPengs relative volume UI for synced players, in general iPeng is the only UI i tested ( i have no android stuff ) that really works as it should with more than one player it finally makes sense to sync.

and it forces you to enter mysb.com creds at first use duh ?

1. i have a local server that broadcast it's presense and has these creds aviable just query the server for these things in the background.

2. some user don't use mysb.com

i don't intend to make fun of the devs regarding this app, it's seems to be done with a tigth shedule and other restrictions such as behave exactly as the controller even if you have an much better UI and touch features, it does not have the attention for details as you would expect if this was really developed from scratch to be used on a pad.

so please don't spend any time on it, make SBS and mysb.com better with your limited resources.

Cheapskates not willing to pay the tiny tiny cost for iPeng SqueezePad or SqueezeComander or any other app deserves this app in it's current state ;)

rbz5416
2011-09-05, 02:10
Well I had my first play with an iPod Touch yesterday & just for a laugh, thought I'd try this. Shock, horror - it doesn't work.

Logs into MySB.com but can't see the local server. Can only see a player once connected to MySB.com & no option to escape from that screen. Really, why do you bother?

garym
2011-09-05, 05:43
Well I had my first play with an iPod Touch yesterday & just for a laugh, thought I'd try this. Shock, horror - it doesn't work.

Logs into MySB.com but can't see the local server. Can only see a player once connected to MySB.com & no option to escape from that screen. Really, why do you bother?

with the logitech app, one can't switch player back and forth between mysb.com and sbs. You can with iPeng app, which is better in many other ways to.

rbz5416
2011-09-05, 05:55
with the logitech app, one can't switch player back and forth between mysb.com and sbs. You can with iPeng app, which is better in many other ways to.Not a case of switching because, as I said, the app doesn't see SBS at all. So the only thing it can do it control a player once it's been connected to MySB.com elsewhere.

garym
2011-09-05, 06:06
Not a case of switching because, as I said, the app doesn't see SBS at all. So the only thing it can do it control a player once it's been connected to MySB.com elsewhere.

just to clarify, So if you switch your player to SbS (on the player itself), and can play music your sbs, the logitech app doesn't see the player?

dborod
2011-09-05, 06:06
Not a case of switching because, as I said, the app doesn't see SBS at all. So the only thing it can do it control a player once it's been connected to MySB.com elsewhere.

Hmm. I don't use MySB.com but somehow it sees my local server.

garym
2011-09-05, 06:08
Hmm. I don't use MySB.com but somehow it sees my local server.

I think it sees whatever the player is ALREADY connected to (either mysb.com or your local sbs). Your player is connected to SbS, so the app sees that (which is what should be happening for the other poster).

rbz5416
2011-09-05, 06:11
just to clarify, So if you switch your player to SbS (on the player itself), and can play music your sbs, the logitech app doesn't see the player?Correct. Initially all players were connected to SBS so it just reported that no players were found. From that screen there is nothing more you can do other than continually refresh where it continually fails to find any players, presumably because it can't see SBS.

garym
2011-09-05, 06:22
Correct. Initially all players were connected to SBS so it just reported that no players were found. From that screen there is nothing more you can do other than continually refresh where it continually fails to find any players, presumably because it can't see SBS.

have you "rebooted" your iphone? Can't hurt. I can't play with this now, because I deleted the app shortly after installing it. iPeng is the best $10 I've spent on my squeezebox ecosystem.

rbz5416
2011-09-05, 06:30
have you "rebooted" your iphone? Can't hurt. I can't play with this now, because I deleted the app shortly after installing it. iPeng is the best $10 I've spent on my squeezebox ecosystem.Yep, rebooted, re-installed, downloaded again, all to no avail. Certainly not going to waste any more time on it.

mherger
2011-09-05, 06:46
> Logs into MySB.com but can't see the local server. Can only see a
> player once connected to MySB.com & no option to escape from that
> screen. Really, why do you bother?

Make sure your iPod is on the same network as your server.

--

Michael

garym
2011-09-05, 06:49
> Logs into MySB.com but can't see the local server. Can only see a
> player once connected to MySB.com & no option to escape from that
> screen. Really, why do you bother?

Make sure your iPod is on the same network as your server.

--

Michael

Ah. Good point. sometimes I think ipeng has gone on the blink then I realize that I'm still on 3G instead of my LAN wifi.

mbonsack
2011-09-05, 08:18
>
Make sure your iPod is on the same network as your server.

Michael

Is this restriction ever going to be removed? I'd love to be able to manually enter the IP address of my SBS server; it is on a different net than my wireless LAN that drives my IPad and other devices.

I know there was some talk earlier about fixing this but it's been silent for awhile.

-mark

rbz5416
2011-09-05, 09:45
> Logs into MySB.com but can't see the local server. Can only see a
> player once connected to MySB.com & no option to escape from that
> screen. Really, why do you bother?

Make sure your iPod is on the same network as your server.

--

MichaelIt is.