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nicoleif
2011-01-05, 12:32
I have read that the Quality of service (QoS)function my router DIR655 supports could stabilies the high rez streaming to my Touch. Thus I may be able to avoid buffering when changing streaming from one folder to another. Does anyone have expiernce in setting up the roles?

pski
2011-01-05, 16:05
I have read that the Quality of service (QoS)function my router DIR655 supports could stabilies the high rez streaming to my Touch. Thus I may be able to avoid buffering when changing streaming from one folder to another. Does anyone have expiernce in setting up the roles?

Unless you have high traffic on other wireless devices, Qos should not be necessary.

These devices/SBS clear/restart buffers at the beginning of each song so any "one folder to another" will involve reloading the buffer.

Perhaps you could explain the issue you are addressing.

P

virgiliomi
2011-01-05, 19:43
Also, for most routers, QOS is used for prioritizing data going from your home network to the internet, like a VoIP phone or adapter. It's not used to prioritize data within your network.

rgro
2011-01-05, 20:44
Also, for most routers, QOS is used for prioritizing data going from your home network to the internet, like a VoIP phone or adapter. It's not used to prioritize data within your network.

While I have no idea how to actually go about setting it up, I can see that my M1000 DSL (Qwest) router has both upstream and downstream QoS settings. I always wondered if/how fiddling with that stuff would, in the real world, have any positive effect on either audio and/or video streaming....

Mnyb
2011-01-06, 00:33
You can have dropouts in the first track in 24/96 albums even on a wired conection , not att all sure thatthis bug is fixed.

nicoleif
2011-01-06, 01:46
Google have enlightend me. QoS is used to priorities wireless trafic. I am on cable and I experience buffering when change from one folder of 24bit/96KHz musik to another. There is no buffering when changing from one file to another in the same folder. Is that a known bug?

Mnyb
2011-01-06, 01:57
Google have enlightend me. QoS is used to priorities wireless trafic. I am on cable and I experience buffering when change from one folder of 24bit/96KHz musik to another. There is no buffering when changing from one file to another in the same folder. Is that a known bug?

Two known bugs, but what version of fw .
This supposedly was fixed in 7.5.1

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15361

But it is not realy fixed vote on it and write something in bugzilla, I'm trying to get it reopened.

sometimes it helps streaming it as PCM
So that the Touch does not do flac encoding this is a server setting in file types . This doubles the network load but that shuold not be a problem wired

"folder" ? what is the file format, and do you have a powerfull server ?

nicoleif
2011-01-06, 02:41
Two known bugs, but what version of fw .
This supposedly was fixed in 7.5.1

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15361

But it is not realy fixed vote on it and write something in bugzilla, I'm trying to get it reopened.

sometimes it helps streaming it as PCM
So that the Touch does not do flac encoding this is a server setting in file types . This doubles the network load but that shuold not be a problem wired

"folder" ? what is the file format, and do you have a powerfull server ?
I have a qnap TS-119 and the the file format is flac. Folder means that my music is organized in the way that one album is placed in a folder and when changing the play from one album to another (one folder to another) I notice the buffering. I have tried getting the qnap to do the flac encoding but this worsened the experience. Maybe my nas isn't powerful enough to do the encoding?!
I also considered to get a giga-switch so that the trafic over my router wouldn't be slowed down but the switch in the qnap isn't giga either.

nicoleif
2011-01-06, 02:45
Would the conversion of flac to PCM in my nas be a noticeable difference i sound quality compared to having the Touch doing the encoding?

slate
2011-01-06, 03:09
I also considered to get a giga-switch so that the trafic over my router wouldn't be slowed down but the switch in the qnap isn't giga either.

FYI the switch inside your DIR655 is actually quite powerfull. Back when (almost 3 years) I bought my 655 it was actually the strongest home router by a margin.
Granted you can buy faster routers but it is still no slouch http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/

I do not think that the 655 is your problem

Mnyb
2011-01-06, 03:24
Would the conversion of flac to PCM in my nas be a noticeable difference i sound quality compared to having the Touch doing the encoding?

No it wont.

And your qnap can not do that it has to weak cpu .

Do you have tags in your files ? as you are using folders instead of "artist" or "album" just wonder if you tagging was a mess .

Did you scan first ? If you browse to a folder where there are unscanned files sbs does a small scan and put them in the dB.

As you have a NAS I suggest not meddling with the file types settings .

Try to run the server on a PC , maybe it is a cpu issue :-/
If sbs can handle the Touch on a PC but not on the NAS ?

But further experimenting.... proves interesting, I have probably (not 100% sure yet) solved my issue :)
I have had my server priority settings "high" in settings > advanced > performance , note this is linux "nice" levels -20 is highest priority 0 is normal -16 is high . I now have it on "normal" = 0

It's seems like very high settings on a small server , makes it prioritize sbs over anything else like networking ? or other necessary system tasks.

On weak server avoid to use the web-UI at the same time.

Hopefully you have scanned with the precache artwork setting to yes otherwise sbs has to scale images everytime you change album.

nicoleif
2011-01-06, 03:36
FYI the switch inside your DIR655 is actually quite powerfull. Back when (almost 3 years) I bought my 655 it was actually the strongest home router by a margin.
Granted you can buy faster routers but it is still no slouch http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/

I do not think that the 655 is your problem
But my qnap is still a bottleneck so that the switch solution may prove to be a waste of money.

rgro
2011-01-06, 09:09
You can have dropouts in the first track in 24/96 albums even on a wired conection , not att all sure thatthis bug is fixed.

Yeah, I too get this very occasionally---the last time it happened was a few days ago----the first track of a big (200 tracks, or so) Beatles playlist. The track started, dropped after a couple seconds, rebuffered, and then all was well from there on. The Beatles tunes are the 24 bit variety, but they're not 24/96. I'm currently in transition to a more hard-wired setup (later next week) and, at the moment (for about the past 2 weeks) am running SBS on a VBA hardwired to a gigabit switch with the wireless router (which has functioned flawlessly for months) connected to the switch. The Touch is, for the moment, still connected wirelessly as it has been since I got it.

Mnyb
2011-01-06, 09:17
Yeah, I too get this very occasionally. I haven't spent any time, though, in trying to figure out the exact conditions under which it occurs.

I go to an artist choose an album press play .

For me when I use my controller to controll Touch it is exactly before the artwork appears on both NP screens ,

If I glance at the server it has cpu load at 100% for a short while .

TerryS
2011-01-06, 10:41
I'll chime in. I have the same issue. Wireless connection from the Touch to the router. Wired from the router to a QNAP TS-110 NAS which hosts the Squeezebox server and music files.
Occasionally, when I first start playing a 24/96 FLAC album, I get the "rebuffering" a couple of seconds after starting to play the album. The rest of the album plays fine.
I tried a couple of experiments to narrow it down:
1.) Installed Squeezebx Server on my desktop computer. Even with a wireless connection from the computer to the router, I never saw the issue.
2.) Back to using the NAS to host the Squeezbox Server, but now with a wired connection from the Touch to the router, the problem still happened, but MUCH less frequently.

So the issue appears to be a combination of whimpy processing power in the NAS, combined with a wireless connection to the Touch. I can't really make sense of it. The connection strength of the wireless to the Touch is 100%, and I don't get dropouts when running the network test on the Touch.
I can add a bunch of extra traffic on the wireless network (like downloading a Hi-Res album from HD-Tracks to my desktop computer or transferring files from the computer to the NAS) while playing the Touch, and never have a problem except at the very start of the album, so it seems like data rate on the wireless network is more than sufficient.

It is a minor irration, but I hope it gets fixed someday.
I am running the latest released versions of the SW and firmmware.

Terry

rgro
2011-01-06, 11:17
I'll chime in. I have the same issue. Wireless connection from the Touch to the router. Wired from the router to a QNAP TS-110 NAS which hosts the Squeezebox server and music files.
Occasionally, when I first start playing a 24/96 FLAC album, I get the "rebuffering" a couple of seconds after starting to play the album. The rest of the album plays fine.
I tried a couple of experiments to narrow it down:
1.) Installed Squeezebx Server on my desktop computer. Even with a wireless connection from the computer to the router, I never saw the issue.
2.) Back to using the NAS to host the Squeezbox Server, but now with a wired connection from the Touch to the router, the problem still happened, but MUCH less frequently.

So the issue appears to be a combination of whimpy processing power in the NAS, combined with a wireless connection to the Touch. I can't really make sense of it. The connection strength of the wireless to the Touch is 100%, and I don't get dropouts when running the network test on the Touch.
I can add a bunch of extra traffic on the wireless network (like downloading a Hi-Res album from HD-Tracks to my desktop computer or transferring files from the computer to the NAS) while playing the Touch, and never have a problem except at the very start of the album, so it seems like data rate on the wireless network is more than sufficient.

It is a minor irration, but I hope it gets fixed someday.
I am running the latest released versions of the SW and firmmware.

Terry

I'm just not sure about the processor power angle. The VBA has the Atom D510 processor which, by most accounts, is way more than enough to handle SBS. And I don't have the VBA doing anything else but running SBS. I can't make sense of it, either. We'll see if, when I go to wired next week, that makes any difference. From what you've said, I suspect it won't. If you've got a Bugzilla account vote for bug #16750.

Mnyb
2011-01-06, 11:28
I'm just not sure about the processor power angle. The VBA has the Atom D510 processor which, by most accounts, is way more than enough to handle SBS. And I don't have the VBA doing anything else but running SBS. I can't make sense of it, either. We'll see if, when I go to wired next week, that makes any difference. From what you've said, I suspect it won't. If you've got a Bugzilla account vote for bug #16750.

Remember that we have 2 different bugs here , when the Touch was introduced 16/44.1 flac worked fine but 24/96 did not .

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15361

But they fixed that in 7.5.1 (but this is also broken again).

But now it is broken in normal 16/44.1 files to , but in a slightly different way it does not always happen, and i can see no pattern to whhich files is going to trigger this. only this it is more likely in hirez files.

And this is the new bug for when it happens on "normal" files with 7.6

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16750

This time the issues is not slow processing in the Touch it actually buffers,
it's quite the opposite the server seems to be very busy.

TerryS
2011-01-06, 12:11
I'm just not sure about the processor power angle. The VBA has the Atom D510 processor which, by most accounts, is way more than enough to handle SBS. And I don't have the VBA doing anything else but running SBS. I can't make sense of it, either. We'll see if, when I go to wired next week, that makes any difference. From what you've said, I suspect it won't. If you've got a Bugzilla account vote for bug #16750.

I'm not sure about the processor power either. But from the symptoms it appears as though it might be contributing:

1.) Squeezebox Server on Desktop PC, Touch connected wireless to router => 0% Rebuffers

2.) Squeezebox Server on NAS, Touch connected wired ethernet to router => 5% Rebuffers

3.) Squeezebox Server on NAS, Touch connected wireless to router => 20% rebuffers.

The X% rebuffers are just a guess of course, at how many times I experience the "rebuffering" at the beginning of the 24/96 FLAC album.
So it appears that somehow the wireless connection to the Touch and NAS both contribute to the issue. The NAS is always connected to the router with a wired connection.

I don't know if I should open a bugzilla account and vote on the bug, since it may be mostly a NAS processor power issue in my case. It works fine when the Squeezebox Server is hosted on my desktop computer.

EDIT: I also have observed that the CPU usage on my NAS server hits 100% when the album is first started. This happens whether the rebuffering happens or not.

Terry

rgro
2011-01-06, 12:49
We sorta' got o/t a bit here and, I have to say, I'm still rather interested to go back to the op's original question and hear if anybody's had any luck with setting a router's QoS priority settings and, if so, if that actually make any substantive difference.

Mnyb
2011-01-06, 12:53
I'm not sure about the processor power either. But from the symptoms it appears as though it might be contributing:

1.) Squeezebox Server on Desktop PC, Touch connected wireless to router => 0% Rebuffers

2.) Squeezebox Server on NAS, Touch connected wired ethernet to router => 5% Rebuffers

3.) Squeezebox Server on NAS, Touch connected wireless to router => 20% rebuffers.

The X% rebuffers are just a guess of course, at how many times I experience the "rebuffering" at the beginning of the 24/96 FLAC album.
So it appears that somehow the wireless connection to the Touch and NAS both contribute to the issue. The NAS is always connected to the router with a wired connection.

I don't know if I should open a bugzilla account and vote on the bug, since it may be mostly a NAS processor power issue in my case. It works fine when the Squeezebox Server is hosted on my desktop computer.

EDIT: I also have observed that the CPU usage on my NAS server hits 100% when the album is first started. This happens whether the rebuffering happens or not.

Terry

Yes but interestingly the servers should be able to work onboard the Touch itself (without web UI) and I have an 1,2Ghz via cpu another gentleman has a 1.67 ghz atom in the vortex-box and yet others have no problem on even smaller machines ?
yes I to see that 100% cpu spike that might not be bad per definition if sbs uses that cpu time well .

nicoleif
2011-01-06, 15:11
No it wont.

And your qnap can not do that it has to weak cpu .

Do you have tags in your files ? as you are using folders instead of "artist" or "album" just wonder if you tagging was a mess .

Did you scan first ? If you browse to a folder where there are unscanned files sbs does a small scan and put them in the dB.

As you have a NAS I suggest not meddling with the file types settings .

Try to run the server on a PC , maybe it is a cpu issue :-/
If sbs can handle the Touch on a PC but not on the NAS ?

But further experimenting.... proves interesting, I have probably (not 100% sure yet) solved my issue :)
I have had my server priority settings "high" in settings > advanced > performance , note this is linux "nice" levels -20 is highest priority 0 is normal -16 is high . I now have it on "normal" = 0

It's seems like very high settings on a small server , makes it prioritize sbs over anything else like networking ? or other necessary system tasks.

On weak server avoid to use the web-UI at the same time.

Hopefully you have scanned with the precache artwork setting to yes otherwise sbs has to scale images everytime you change album.

My tagging is no mess (ripped using EAC and Flac frontend). Using My Music and Music Folder gives a quick easy overview of what music I want to hear. MMaybe I should try using artist and albums instead af see if the buffering remains.
What do you mean, "do you scan first". SBS only make a new scan when I change something in my music library and maybe? when my nas is shut down. My nas is always turned on (it goes into standby after 5 min of inactivity).

It is not an option to run SBS on a PC!

I will try to alter server priority settings to -20.

I never use the web-UI when I stream music!

I have the Pre-cache albums on!

Thanx for the advise!

nicoleif
2011-01-07, 01:57
My tagging is no mess (ripped using EAC and Flac frontend). Using My Music and Music Folder gives a quick easy overview of what music I want to hear. MMaybe I should try using artist and albums instead af see if the buffering remains.
What do you mean, "do you scan first". SBS only make a new scan when I change something in my music library and maybe? when my nas is shut down. My nas is always turned on (it goes into standby after 5 min of inactivity).

It is not an option to run SBS on a PC!

I will try to alter server priority settings to -20.

I never use the web-UI when I stream music!

I have the Pre-cache albums on!

Thanx for the advise!

I have now tried using artist and albums instead of Music folder and it seems to be eliminating the problem (server priority settings is kept at normal). I will test further this weekend!