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View Full Version : Server Upgrade Woes - Should have known better.



Michael Bowyer
2004-09-06, 15:16
Nice attitude Jack. If you represent SlimDevices, then I need to return
my products RIGHT AWAY.

Product quality should NEVER be number 4 of 5 on the list, if it is
here then I'm dealing with the wrong people. I'm not looking for smart
arse replies in an internet list, I'm looking for a product that does
what it says. Reliably.

I appreciate that Sean is working hard to fix the dots, random
characters, poor scrolling, server dropouts, audio dropouts, squeezebox
resets, etc, etc, but they shouldn't be happening in the first place.
This is a FACT Jack, just read this list, paying customers are
reporting these problems daily.

When I press play I want to hear my selection, and not just for the
first few seconds until it looses the server, or randomly resets, or
displays dots, or whatever. Graphic users are encouraged to update to
address known problems... I've done this, AND IT STILL DOESN'T WORK! So
spare me your flippant "works for me" bullshit!






Sorry, I tend to be a little more nasty then necessary before the first
pot of coffee. Basically, I disagree with what I perceive as your point
that Slimserver is suffering from an unusual or even important number of
bugs. My experience as a consumer and a vendor in the high-tech world is
that quality is job four or five for most companies. Truly pursuing
quality drives companies out of business because they spend so much on
QA
and tech support without ever reaching the goal of perfection. The time
to
spend time and money on a quality issue is when sales are dropping or
about to drop because the competition is doing a better job.

Since I'm not actually seeing any of these bugs in my own installation,
I'm also not very sympathetic to the argument that it's thoroughly
broken
and unusable.

kdf
2004-09-06, 15:55
right...I'm sick of having to have this discussion constantly coming back to my
inbox. as one who tried very hard to contribute to the server code, both in
fixes for issues I see and (gulp) enhancements that users request (strongly
request, i might add), I'm tired of this thread.

I can't see how anyone can feel any motivation to help this effort with this
kind of ranting on all sides. If you have a specific issue, please report it.
Everyone who has the ability to write and test IS working on it. If you dont
have an issue, great. Enjoy a wonderful product. But to sit and bitch at each
other over how and when things are fixed is useless and demoralising.
Especially when none of you have a clue what the prorities are. Only Sean,
Vidur and Dean know that, and if they arent taking part in this discussion, the
only content is conjecture. Turning on each other is just wasting time, for
users who have to read this and for all the open source devs who, I'm guessing,
are probably feeling its no longer worth their efforts.

as for this thread, its now filtered out. I have said my peace and will no long
take part, nor extract any information from it.
-kdf

Quoting Michael Bowyer <mbowyer (AT) mac (DOT) com>:

> Nice attitude Jack. If you represent SlimDevices, then I need to return
> my products RIGHT AWAY.
>
> Product quality should NEVER be number 4 of 5 on the list, if it is
> here then I'm dealing with the wrong people. I'm not looking for smart
> arse replies in an internet list, I'm looking for a product that does
> what it says. Reliably.
>
> I appreciate that Sean is working hard to fix the dots, random
> characters, poor scrolling, server dropouts, audio dropouts, squeezebox
> resets, etc, etc, but they shouldn't be happening in the first place.
> This is a FACT Jack, just read this list, paying customers are
> reporting these problems daily.
>
> When I press play I want to hear my selection, and not just for the
> first few seconds until it looses the server, or randomly resets, or
> displays dots, or whatever. Graphic users are encouraged to update to
> address known problems... I've done this, AND IT STILL DOESN'T WORK! So
> spare me your flippant "works for me" bullshit!
>
>
>
>
>

> Sorry, I tend to be a little more nasty then necessary before the first
> pot of coffee. Basically, I disagree with what I perceive as your point
> that Slimserver is suffering from an unusual or even important number of
> bugs. My experience as a consumer and a vendor in the high-tech world is
> that quality is job four or five for most companies. Truly pursuing
> quality drives companies out of business because they spend so much on
> QA
> and tech support without ever reaching the goal of perfection. The time
> to
> spend time and money on a quality issue is when sales are dropping or
> about to drop because the competition is doing a better job.
>
> Since I'm not actually seeing any of these bugs in my own installation,
> I'm also not very sympathetic to the argument that it's thoroughly
> broken
> and unusable.
>

seanadams
2004-09-06, 18:50
Michael,

Only people here whose addresses end in @slimdevices.com are employees
of slimdevices. Everyone else is sharing their time and expertise only
because they like the product and the community.

I am working hard to address all bugs in the firmware. Yes there are
some bugs. Yes we're taking them seriously. No they are NOT bugs that
happen all the time, nor are they bugs which are easy to reproduce - we
would never ship a product that had known bugs like that. Sometimes
despite months of in-house testing we still find that there are issues
to iron out. Networking equipment is a little different from a dvd
player or the usual CE gear. We have to interoperate with *thousands*
of different combinations of receivers, base stations, operating
systems etc.

Also, realize that what you see on this list is the kind of information
most companies work hard to conceal. We're different in that we're open
about what bugs are known, and we invite customers to come here and
tell us what needs improvement. We see that as a means of building
better products.

On this note let me add that firmware v.36 has just been checked in 5
minutes ago, and this is expected to address all remaining
crash/garbled display issues. If you want to give it a try you can get
it in the next nightly. No, we do not intend to point people at nightly
releases forever - we are trying to fix specific issues right now and
once we have confirmation that everything is working right, we will do
an official release on the web site.

Also feel free to contact us directly if you need live help
troubleshooting or if you have other questions.

Thanks,

Sean

On Sep 6, 2004, at 3:16 PM, Michael Bowyer wrote:

> Nice attitude Jack. If you represent SlimDevices, then I need to
> return my products RIGHT AWAY.
>
> Product quality should NEVER be number 4 of 5 on the list, if it is
> here then I'm dealing with the wrong people. I'm not looking for smart
> arse replies in an internet list, I'm looking for a product that does
> what it says. Reliably.
>
> I appreciate that Sean is working hard to fix the dots, random
> characters, poor scrolling, server dropouts, audio dropouts,
> squeezebox resets, etc, etc, but they shouldn't be happening in the
> first place. This is a FACT Jack, just read this list, paying
> customers are reporting these problems daily.
>
> When I press play I want to hear my selection, and not just for the
> first few seconds until it looses the server, or randomly resets, or
> displays dots, or whatever. Graphic users are encouraged to update to
> address known problems... I've done this, AND IT STILL DOESN'T WORK!
> So spare me your flippant "works for me" bullshit!
>
>
>
>
>

> Sorry, I tend to be a little more nasty then necessary before the first
> pot of coffee. Basically, I disagree with what I perceive as your point
> that Slimserver is suffering from an unusual or even important number
> of
> bugs. My experience as a consumer and a vendor in the high-tech world
> is
> that quality is job four or five for most companies. Truly pursuing
> quality drives companies out of business because they spend so much on
> QA
> and tech support without ever reaching the goal of perfection. The
> time to
> spend time and money on a quality issue is when sales are dropping or
> about to drop because the competition is doing a better job.
>
> Since I'm not actually seeing any of these bugs in my own installation,
> I'm also not very sympathetic to the argument that it's thoroughly
> broken
> and unusable.
>

Kevin O. Lepard
2004-09-07, 07:18
Sean, Dean, kdf

I think you guys are doing a great job. Both those of you at Slim
Devices, and kdf in the community. I just ordered another
Squeezebox, and have no doubt that whatever obscure bugs may exist
will be worked out.

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard
kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.