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lordgibbness
2010-11-11, 09:48
Hi,

I'm just wondering if the various artists logic works correctly?

I have many compilations and soundtracks where i set the "ALBUM ARTIST" tag to 'Compilation' or 'Soundtrack' accordingly - but still have the artist set correctly (so that it is correct on a track-by-track basis. I can show examples of this from either foobar2000 or mp3tag.

However, for some reason squeezecenter (7.5.1) does not seem to work as expected. I want to group albums which have the "ALBUM ARTIST" tag set separately from albums where it is not set.

Has anyone else had any luck with this? I can provide example and screenshots if necessary.

Thanks,
Rob.

P.S. I found this small wiki article - is this up to date? http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/VariousArtistsLogic

Phil Leigh
2010-11-11, 10:06
The method that works fine for me is (and always has been):
1) do NOT set albumartist to anything! - leave it blank.
2) set the COMPILATION tag to 1

All comps now appear under "Various Artists" in the various Browse menus.

Philip Meyer
2010-11-11, 10:09
>I'm just wondering if the various artists logic works correctly?
>
Yes, it does work.

>I have many compilations and soundtracks where i set the albumartist
>tag to 'Compilation' or 'Soundtrack' accordingly - but still have the
>artist set correctly (so that it is correct on a track-by-track basis.
>
>However, for some reason squeezecenter (7.2.1) does not seem to work as
>expected.
>
What exactly are you expecting, and what are you seeing?

When you say you are setting the "albumartist" tag, what tag format are you setting? If it is id3, are you actually setting Band (called the TPE2 frame), or an "Album Artist" tag?

Are you aware that SBS automatically detects albums as compilations if you don't set an album artist tag, or that if you do set an album artist tag, the album isn't therefore a compilation unless you set a Compilation tag?

Phil

lordgibbness
2010-11-11, 10:23
Hi, the compilation tag sounds like a workaround which could work, but I'd like to see about getting the albumartist tagging working if I could in the first instance (no need to retag anything).

I'll post back with full examples to help you understand what isn't working correctly.

cheers.

Phil Leigh
2010-11-11, 10:26
Hi, the compilation tag sounds like a workaround which could work, but I'd like to see about getting the albumartist tagging working if I could in the first instance (no need to retag anything).

I'll post back with full examples to help you understand what isn't working correctly.

cheers.

If you set ALBUMARTIST to anything, SBS will not treat this as a compilation... unless you also set the COMPILATION tag to 1.

There aren't any other choices.

garym
2010-11-11, 12:58
If you set ALBUMARTIST to anything, SBS will not treat this as a compilation... unless you also set the COMPILATION tag to 1.

There aren't any other choices.

easy enough to pull up all your compilation albums in mp3tag and add COMPILATION tag with value of "1" for all of them. A few mouse clicks and you're done....

snarlydwarf
2010-11-11, 13:38
If you set ALBUMARTIST to anything, SBS will not treat this as a compilation... unless you also set the COMPILATION tag to 1.

There aren't any other choices.

And a clarification as to why this is the case: if you have a tribute album that is composed of a dozen artists all playing Dylan songs, you may wish to set the Album Artist to Dylan in order to file it "correctly" (ie, as a record store would usually file it -- just because Bono sings one track on it, that doesn't make it a U2 album, and the VA bin at the record store would be a mess if it was filled with every tribute album).

So Album Artist overrides any sort of compilation check: you've said, "Yes, I know this looks like a dozen artists, but please file it over there".

Unless you override that override with COMPILATION to say "yeah, yeah, go put it into VA anyway".

lordgibbness
2010-11-11, 14:28
If you set ALBUMARTIST to anything, SBS will not treat this as a compilation... unless you also set the COMPILATION tag to 1.

There aren't any other choices.
On the settings page 'My Music' there is a Compilations section which has the following options (which I have set showing the X).

- You can choose to have compilation albums appear together under "Various Artists" or have them appear under each artist in the compilation.
"List compilation albums under each artist"
"Group compilation albums together" X

- Albums that contain songs that are tagged with a band may be listed under that band name or with the other artists for that album. The band tag is also known as TPE2 and may appear as the "album artist" in some software.
"List albums by all artists for that album"
"List albums by band" X

- The MP3 tag format does not provide a standard way of defining an Album Artist. Some MP3 tagging tools use the TPE2 field for Album Artist (iTunes, Winamp, Windows Media Player) while others may use it for the intended meaning of "Band/orchestra". Select the meaning you would like Squeezebox Server to use. Changing this setting will start a rescan of your music library.
"Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as Band"
"Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as Album Artist" X

So I am trying to use the "ALBUM ARTIST" tag (written by mp3tag) to put the compilation albums under Various Artists rather than spread across the artists on the disc.

I'll double check the actual ID3 tag with a hex editor to be sure everything is tagged correctly.

lordgibbness
2010-11-12, 06:25
This looks like a complete guide to compilation albums in SBS. I'll have to have a good read...

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Compilations

So it seems the way I have it setup (from their example) :-
*************************
Album= YYY
track 1 ARTIST= AAA
track 1 ALBUMARTIST=EEE
track 2 ARTIST= BBB
track 2 ALBUMARTIST=EEE
track 3 ARTIST= CCC
track 3 ALBUMARTIST=EEE

No matter what the individual track artists are, if there is a common ALBUMARTIST then the album is not a compilation. Whether your mp3 files have an ALBUMARTIST tag may be related to how the TPE2 tag is interpreted. See discussion under #Additional Compilation-related settings below.
*************************

having albumartist populated will mean that it is NOT seen as a compilation. So I can either remove the album artist or add compilation tag.

I will test and report back...

lordgibbness
2010-11-12, 12:47
When you say you are setting the "albumartist" tag, what tag format are you setting? If it is id3, are you actually setting Band (called the TPE2 frame), or an "Album Artist" tag?

Are you aware that SBS automatically detects albums as compilations if you don't set an album artist tag, or that if you do set an album artist tag, the album isn't therefore a compilation unless you set a Compilation tag?

Phil
I just thought I should make clear that I am using the 'ALBUM ARTIST' tag to hold the string Compilation or Soundtrack as per the foobar2000 standards for 'Various Artists' fields.

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Encouraged_Tag_Standard s

Is it possible for SBS to use this tag rather than the 'COMPILATION' tag?

snarlydwarf
2010-11-12, 12:54
I just thought I should make clear that I am using the 'ALBUM ARTIST' tag to hold the string Compilation or Soundtrack as per the foobar2000 standards for 'Various Artists' fields.

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Encouraged_Tag_Standard s

Is it possible for SBS to use this tag rather than the 'COMPILATION' tag?

That would be problematic for me: what is to differentiate a compilation album from a legit release by the artist named 'Various Artists'?

http://musicbrainz.org/artist/8e107957-c443-45b4-84f7-8b054499ef78.html

there is a difference between "an album by the group named 'Various Artists' and an album by various artists'".

Setting the Album Artist to Various Artists would make it in the first group.

Leaving AA -blank- on such things would kick in the compilation-check and make it in the second group.

lordgibbness
2010-11-12, 13:28
That would be problematic for me: what is to differentiate a compilation album from a legit release by the artist named 'Various Artists'?

http://musicbrainz.org/artist/8e107957-c443-45b4-84f7-8b054499ef78.html

there is a difference between "an album by the group named 'Various Artists' and an album by various artists'".

Setting the Album Artist to Various Artists would make it in the first group.

Leaving AA -blank- on such things would kick in the compilation-check and make it in the second group.

Hmm.. I'm not sure your example makes sense as the second rule from the fb2k article is

"tag should only exist if an album contains various artists. It should NOT be created when an album does not contain various artists. "

So you'd only add ALBUM ARTIST tag when it is actually a compilation album - and not when the artists is called Various Artists. If the artist was called Various Artists that would go in the 'ARTIST' tag.

Edit to add: You can make SBS put compilation albums under any heading you like.

JJZolx
2010-11-12, 13:56
What do you hope to accomplish by having an album marked as a "compilation"?

If you set ALBUMARTIST to anything, and 'Group compilation albums together' is set, the individual artists will be considered 'track' arists and will not appear in your artist list. This is what most people want, so that the artist list isn't cluttered by one-track artists.

Example: I have a Frank Sinatra album where he performs with a different artist on each track - 'Duets'. I tag it with ALBUMARTIST=Frank Sinatra, no COMPILATION tag. The album appears sorted with the other Frank Sinatra albums and singers like 'Charles Aznavour' don't clutter up the artist list. I wouldn't want this album grouped among the 'Various Artists' albums. It's a Sinatra album; he actually performs on it.

When browsing albums sorted by artist:

If you set ALBUMARTIST to 'Soundtrack" then all of your soundtracks will be sorted and listed under 'Soundtrack'.

If you set ALBUMARTST to 'Various Artists' then these albums will be sorted under 'Various Artists'.

That's good, right? I think (not 100% certain) that if you mark each of those albums with COMPILATION=1 you'll get the exact same behavior when ALBUMARTIST is also set.

lordgibbness
2010-11-12, 14:56
If you set ALBUMARTIST to anything, and 'Group compilation albums together' is set, the individual artists will be considered 'track' arists and will not appear in your artist list. This is what most people want, so that the artist list isn't cluttered by one-track artists.
This is exactly how SBS does NOT work though. I have 'ALBUM ARTIST' set to something (most ppl set it to VA - I set it to Compilation) but SBS requires the COMPILATION tag to be set, I believe.

MrSinatra
2010-11-12, 15:16
lord,

when i came to SBS, it was confusing because the standards and terms were all conflated, and thats still the case today. you need to understand some non-intuitive things, first check out the id3 standard for mp3s:

www.id3.org

notice there is no frame for "albumartist" (or "album artist")

notice there is a frame for BAND called TPE2.

notice there is the ability to do user defined frames such as:

TXXX ALBUMARTIST

thats important, b/c almost EVERY app and tagging source out there will inappropriately "hijack" the TPE2 frame to mean "albumartist" ...even the new beta of mp3tag now calls TPE2 "albumartist" instead of "band" which is clearly out of spec, (but the de facto standard).

i think foobar may be the only app that doesn't, and isn't easily configurable to conform to what every other app does by default, including SBS, but i don't use foobar, i base that on what others say.

so you need to know what frame you're using for albumartist, and you would make it easy on yourself to just use TPE2 to do that.

once you have your AA values in the TPE2 frame, make sure to tell SBS to "treat TPE2 as albumartist" then do a FULL CLEAR and RESCAN.

i have TPE2 values on everything, and that defeats the SBS "VA logic." so, if i want SBS to know anything is a comp, (which frankly, really isn't necessary, but if you want SBS to know), then you simply add a comp=1 tag via mp3tag, ie. the TCMP frame, which is called itunescompilation or something like that in mp3tag.

also, be aware of this bug:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9523

does that work things out for you then?

JJZolx
2010-11-12, 15:26
This is exactly how SBS does NOT work though. I have 'ALBUM ARTIST' set to something (most ppl set it to VA - I set it to Compilation) but SBS requires the COMPILATION tag to be set, I believe.

Requires it for *what*?

What I'm asking is this.... What behavior do you want (or expect) from Squeezebox Server when an album is determined to be a 'compilation'? I'm saying that the behavior in SbS won't be different with or without it, so don't worry about it.

Regarding foobar2000 behavior:

Where does foobar2000 sort an album tagged ALBUMARTIST=Soundtrack when albums are sorted by artist?

What other behavior do you see by having that album marked a compilation?

snarlydwarf
2010-11-12, 17:08
Hmm.. I'm not sure your example makes sense as the second rule from the fb2k article is

"tag should only exist if an album contains various artists. It should NOT be created when an album does not contain various artists. "

So you'd only add ALBUM ARTIST tag when it is actually a compilation album - and not when the artists is called Various Artists. If the artist was called Various Artists that would go in the 'ARTIST' tag.

Edit to add: You can make SBS put compilation albums under any heading you like.

If you set the Album Artist in your tag to the string 'Various Artists'

And you set an Artist tag in your library to the string 'Various Artists' for their album titled 'Solo Album'....

How will SBS know that the first is a compilation and the second is the name of a band?

It seems to me that an actual compilation would NOT be by the string 'Various Artists', but would rather be a virtual ID that happens to be displayed as Various Artists.

If you had the cited album in your library, how would it sort? (Hint: it would sort with every other album you tagged with the same artist name... ie, it would be tossed in with every compilation, even though it is NOT a compilation.)

'Soundtrack' is not an artist name either: it's perhaps a genre or classifaction.. but it's not an artist name and should not be tossed into a field for artist names...

lordgibbness
2010-11-12, 17:32
lord,

when i came to SBS, it was confusing because the standards and terms were all conflated, and thats still the case today. you need to understand some non-intuitive things, first check out the id3 standard for mp3s:

www.id3.org

notice there is no frame for "albumartist" (or "album artist")

notice there is a frame for BAND called TPE2.

notice there is the ability to do user defined frames such as:

TXXX ALBUMARTIST

thats important, b/c almost EVERY app and tagging source out there will inappropriately "hijack" the TPE2 frame to mean "albumartist" ...even the new beta of mp3tag now calls TPE2 "albumartist" instead of "band" which is clearly out of spec, (but the de facto standard).

i think foobar may be the only app that doesn't, and isn't easily configurable to conform to what every other app does by default, including SBS, but i don't use foobar, i base that on what others say.

so you need to know what frame you're using for albumartist, and you would make it easy on yourself to just use TPE2 to do that.

once you have your AA values in the TPE2 frame, make sure to tell SBS to "treat TPE2 as albumartist" then do a FULL CLEAR and RESCAN.

i have TPE2 values on everything, and that defeats the SBS "VA logic." so, if i want SBS to know anything is a comp, (which frankly, really isn't necessary, but if you want SBS to know), then you simply add a comp=1 tag via mp3tag, ie. the TCMP frame, which is called itunescompilation or something like that in mp3tag.

also, be aware of this bug:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9523

does that work things out for you then?

Hiya - yeah I've been reading a lot about tagging standards and foobar and mp3tag are probably the best i've come across so far.

When I was looking at the SBS settings I assumed it would work like foobar where you assign your 'various artists/compilation/soundtrack' tag to 'ALBUM ARTIST' which means that if it is an album with more than one artist's song on the CD you add a string to that field.

However, it turns out that SBS does the exact opposite to foobar (if this field is populated then it assumes it isn't a compilation album).

Anyway - good news - I've got everything sorted in SBS by adding the 'COMPILATION' tag. I still have 'ALBUM ARTIST' (TXXX ALBUM ARTIST) set to "Soundtrack" and "Compilation" for those kinds of albums and (don't have that tag set at all for normal albums)... and it works really well. I can scroll though the artists sub-menu and find compilations and soundtracks now where as before I could only find the albums under specific artists...

Thanks for your help.
Rob.

Philip Meyer
2010-11-12, 17:56
>I just thought I should make clear that I am using the 'ALBUM ARTIST'
>tag to hold the string Compilation or Soundtrack as per the foobar2000
>standards for 'Various Artists' fields.
>
Good; you're half way there.

Because you have set ALBUM ARTIST=<anything>, by definition it is not a compilation, because all songs are grouped together to belong to the same album artist. Having set an album artist, if you also want to make it a compilation you have to set a COMPILATION tag too (either a custom tag called COMPILATION, or if you are using id3 tags, you can set a non-official frame called TCMP, which Apple invented for iTunes).

You should decide to add the COMPILATION tag when you want to make an album a compilation, but may be not all of these albums should be compilations - eg. an album artist of "Soundtrack" may not be a compilation if all songs are performed by the same artist.

If you have an album that has varying track artists, SBS will automatically detect it as a compilation *only if* you haven't set an album artist.

MrSinatra
2010-11-12, 18:04
np, let me just add some things though...

its true that you don't need albumarist tags on everything... for SBS. but to just put them on everything doesn't hurt, AND makes for a more or less uniform exp across pretty much most every app. ...except foobar (it seems).

if you are using TXXX ALBUM ARTIST (which btw is different from TXXX ALBUMARTIST for tech supports sake) then my guess is that very few apps, outside of SBS and Foobar will support it. if you use TPE2, then itunes, winamp, WMP, etc... will give expected behavior, and its also nice if you ever send friends a copy of the file.

anyway, a comp tag will always work with SBS if you want to be sure SBS knows such and such is a comp. but AA tags are useful for sorting and placing that recording in your list OUTSIDE of the SBS comp area. just look out for that bug, (which you shouldn't see i don't think if you have the explicit comp tag)

lordgibbness
2010-11-13, 05:00
Yeah I base all of my tagging standards on foobars recommendations - so I use ALBUM ARTIST (rather than ALBUMARTIST or TPE2) for defining VA albums.

I suppose you're right that SBS won't use this in any of it's logic - however through the web interface I can now search for Artist > Soundtrack (and Artist > Compilation) and it finds all those albums OK.

But through the Boom/Classic interface they are only listed under Various Artists. I suppose if I used TPE2 or ALBUMARTIST instead it would be better?

MrSinatra
2010-11-13, 15:48
i could be wrong, so hopefully others will speak up, but afaik, SBS is supposed to support TPE2, TXXX ALBUMARTIST and TXXX ALBUM ARTIST all equally the same. (assuming of course you set the TPE2 setting as such).

what i am telling you, is that TPE2 is the universal way more or less (for other apps), while the TXXX ways are very spotty, usually unsupported. and indeed, even SBS has had problems supporting the TXXX ways.

having said that, i'm confused a bit by what you are saying. if SBS finds any of the 3 AA tags above, it should use them, and that defeats the VA logic it uses, where it compares artists on an album, and if even one track is different SBS than calls it a comp. AA tags are supposed to do this, you want it to do this.

the really confusing thing to me, is that you should be able to find your stuff in the same places regardless of if it is webui, SP, or boom/classic, etc... in other words, if SBS recognizes the AA tag in the webui, i would think it would in the classic ui for example, regardless of what "type" of AA tag you used.

anyone understand why he isn't seeing it in boom/classic? i know SP has problems in this area...

lordgibbness
2010-11-13, 18:21
i could be wrong, so hopefully others will speak up, but afaik, SBS is supposed to support TPE2, TXXX ALBUMARTIST and TXXX ALBUM ARTIST all equally the same. (assuming of course you set the TPE2 setting as such).

what i am telling you, is that TPE2 is the universal way more or less (for other apps), while the TXXX ways are very spotty, usually unsupported. and indeed, even SBS has had problems supporting the TXXX ways.
I think you are right - which is pretty good as I only really use foobar and SBS to play albums.


if SBS finds any of the 3 AA tags above, it should use them, and that defeats the VA logic it uses, where it compares artists on an album, and if even one track is different SBS than calls it a comp. AA tags are supposed to do this, you want it to do this.
It's different to the recommended usage that foobar describes though (where the AA tag is a string that can be used to define the album as VA, Compilation, Soundtrack, etc.)

But I understand that SBS uses this tag to say who the overall artist is, rather than meaning it's a compilation - so I am happy to use the COMPILATION tag to make it work.



the really confusing thing to me, is that you should be able to find your stuff in the same places regardless of if it is webui, SP, or boom/classic, etc... in other words, if SBS recognizes the AA tag in the webui, i would think it would in the classic ui for example, regardless of what "type" of AA tag you used.

anyone understand why he isn't seeing it in boom/classic? i know SP has problems in this area...
I've just double checked and your right. The reason that I originally thought I could see them listed under Soundtrack was due to the fact that I searched for soundtrack in the WebUI and it returned albums that had that AA (TXXX ALBUM ARTIST) tag set to Soundtrack (but I was browsing on the classic when I realised they were all listed under VA). However I can also search for Soundtrack directly on the boom/classic and it finds Soundtracks that way too.

So, if I list albums by band (an option in settings screen) will I see Soundtrack and Compilation under the Artist list I wonder? I'll set those options and test that as it would be useful.

MrSinatra
2010-11-13, 20:00
It's different to the recommended usage that foobar describes though (where the AA tag is a string that can be used to define the album as VA, Compilation, Soundtrack, etc.)

indeed. this is an old can of worms... lots of apps (foobar, winamp, WMP, itunes, etc) and many net-tagging sources can and/or more-often do assign an AA tag to comps. so i have long said that for SBS to flatly assume something isn't a comp, simply b/c the AA tag isn't empty is stupid; but trying to convince some people of that who are set in their ways is an uphill battle.


But I understand that SBS uses this tag to say who the overall artist is, rather than meaning it's a compilation - so I am happy to use the COMPILATION tag to make it work.

SBS evolved to work with itunes first, before other apps, and itunes basically invented the comp tag, and used it b4 it supported AA tags. so i think that kind of explains why SBS evolved the way it did. still, the fact is that the assumptions are no longer, if they were ever, likely to be what SBS encounters in the marketplace. most users will have either AA tags or comp tags, or both. very few users will have neither. so its kinda dopey for SBS to have mandatory VA detection.

i have suggested that a user be able to deactivate VA detection logic, (bug 8324) and be able to user-define strings in AA tags that SBS would recognize as meaning "this is a comp." (i don't think i entered a bug for that).

but to bring it all back to your orig statement, yes, SBS works and is designed OPPOSITE to the usage that other apps do, which is totally counter-intuitive to the uninitiated user. SBS shouldn't, imo, decide something is or isn't a comp, based on the mere presence or absence of an AA tag. comp status should be determined either by explicit comp tags, or user defined strings to mean something is a comp. the VA auto detection should exist, but be optional, not mandatory.

please register with bugzilla and vote for the bug in my sig, it will go a long way to making the situation better.


I've just double checked and your right. The reason that I originally thought I could see them listed under Soundtrack was due to the fact that I searched for soundtrack in the WebUI and it returned albums that had that AA (TXXX ALBUM ARTIST) tag set to Soundtrack (but I was browsing on the classic when I realised they were all listed under VA). However I can also search for Soundtrack directly on the boom/classic and it finds Soundtracks that way too.

So, if I list albums by band (an option in settings screen) will I see Soundtrack and Compilation under the Artist list I wonder? I'll set those options and test that as it would be useful.

you have kind of confused me with what you are saying above. forget searching for a moment.

my understanding is that IF you have AA tags on something and IF you have comp tags on something, it should show up in BOTH the SBS VA category, AND under the AA tag value in the home>artists / home>albums lists, both in the webui, ip3k players, and SP ui.

if thats the case for you, then its working as expected. (assuming you have group comps together, and other similar settings set normally and did a full clear and rescan on 7.5.1 or higher)

vagskal
2010-11-14, 03:05
my understanding is that IF you have AA tags on something and IF you have comp tags on something, it should show up in BOTH the SBS VA category, AND under the AA tag value in the home>artists / home>albums lists, both in the webui, ip3k players, and SP ui.

I wish it was so, but it is not (if you have the SBS settings group compilations, list only band and treat TPE2 as album artist set). Setting for all files in an mp3 album of James Bond songs by various artists the comp tag (TCMP=1) and the album artist tag to James Bond (TPE2=James Bond) will not make James Bond appear in the artist list. Unfortunately.

lordgibbness
2010-11-14, 03:17
you have kind of confused me with what you are saying above. forget searching for a moment.

my understanding is that IF you have AA tags on something and IF you have comp tags on something, it should show up in BOTH the SBS VA category, AND under the AA tag value in the home>artists / home>albums lists, both in the webui, ip3k players, and SP ui.

if thats the case for you, then its working as expected. (assuming you have group comps together, and other similar settings set normally and did a full clear and rescan on 7.5.1 or higher)
Hiya, yeah sorry for the confusion - so ignoring searching and just talking about browsing under the Artist menu: My compilation albums are all placed under 'Various Artists' but I cannot find them under their AA tag.

So to be clear, I can search for them using their AA tag - but I cannot browse for them under Artitst using their AA tag.

Any ideas why this might be? I have tried playing with the various Compilation settings in SBS...

lordgibbness
2010-11-14, 03:18
I wish it was so, but it is not (if you have the SBS settings group compilations, list only band and treat TPE2 as album artist set). Setting for all files in an mp3 album of James Bond songs by various artists the comp tag (TCMP=1) and the album artist tag to James Bond (TPE2=James Bond) will not make James Bond appear in the artist list. Unfortunately.
Ah, so maybe this is what I am seeing too...

MrSinatra
2010-11-14, 03:49
you guys are probably right, (i can't test at the moment). the difficulty for me is that i hardly ever use home>artists, like almost never, b/c you can't toggle the art on there.

i use home>albums, and then set it to sort as "artist, year, album" in the webui, which carries over to other ui's. that way i get an artists list, i get the AA tags, and i get the art. this might work to some degree for you guys too.

now that i think about it, i think there is some discussion about the home>artists issue in the bug in my sig, and bug 9523. voting for the bug in my sig will help solve these issues.

lordgibbness
2010-11-14, 04:29
Yeah using the album view rather than artist view does show the AA (rather than VA or track artists) - which is good.

Just a shame the AA can't be listed under the artist view as well.

MrSinatra
2010-11-14, 04:31
Yeah using the album view rather than artist view does show the AA (rather than VA or track artists) - which is good.

Just a shame the AA can't be listed under the artist view as well.

it CAN be... (vote for the bug!) ;)

lordgibbness
2010-11-14, 04:43
Voted - but rather than a separate section to view compilations - simply listing artists by AA (if available, else TA) would fix my issue.

vagskal
2010-11-14, 11:58
Hiya, yeah sorry for the confusion - so ignoring searching and just talking about browsing under the Artist menu: My compilation albums are all placed under 'Various Artists' but I cannot find them under their AA tag.

So to be clear, I can search for them using their AA tag - but I cannot browse for them under Artitst using their AA tag.

Any ideas why this might be? I have tried playing with the various Compilation settings in SBS...

In the example I gave: If the album artist set for a VA album also has an album where he is a single album artist, that VA album will show up under that album artist, i.e. a The Ramones tribute compilation album by various artists with AA set to The Ramones will in the artist list show up under The Ramones if you have a regular The Ramones album.

MrSinatra
2010-11-14, 12:12
Voted - but rather than a separate section to view compilations - simply listing artists by AA (if available, else TA) would fix my issue.

"else TA" ? the artist?

it will fix your issue, it does both. see the last few posts of 9523.

the anomaly vagskal is talking about is just more reason to fix this issue, b/c SBS is acting unintuitive and incoherent. the casual user should not be expected to understand all this.

lordgibbness
2010-11-15, 03:27
Yep track artist - sorry. Yeah would be good to have more control over the library ala foobar. Thanks for all your help.
Rob.

MrSinatra
2010-11-15, 06:41
In the example I gave: If the album artist set for a VA album also has an album where he is a single album artist, that VA album will show up under that album artist, i.e. a The Ramones tribute compilation album by various artists with AA set to The Ramones will in the artist list show up under The Ramones if you have a regular The Ramones album.

is this bug representation of what you're talking about?

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4341

if you look at the last couple of 9523 posts, i'd like to see the issue handled that way, once 15604 is instituted. i think that might solve 4341 as well.

vagskal
2010-11-15, 13:22
is this bug representation of what you're talking about?

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4341

I do not think so. The bug reporter would like to not see among the albums of an album artist (someone in the artist list) VA albums where that artist is only track artist. If a VA album has deliberately been assigned to an artist as album artist it is logical that you find that VA album among the albums of that artist.

I like to see all assigned album artists in the artist list, even those assigned to a VA album, i.e. James Bond. In the list of albums by one artist I would like to see all albums where that artist appear as album artist, track artist or composer, sorted in categories as per an enhancement request I filed.

JJZolx
2010-11-16, 00:58
I wish it was so, but it is not (if you have the SBS settings group compilations, list only band and treat TPE2 as album artist set). Setting for all files in an mp3 album of James Bond songs by various artists the comp tag (TCMP=1) and the album artist tag to James Bond (TPE2=James Bond) will not make James Bond appear in the artist list. Unfortunately.

Why not just make 'James Bond' the ALBUMARTIST and leave it as a non-compilation album by getting rid of the COMPILATION=1 tag? Then 'James Bond' will appear in the artist list and track artists will still be suppressed from the list.

In the album list (when sorted by artist) it will appear exactly the same whether or not it's considered a compilation. It will be sorted under 'James Bond' and will show 'James Bond' as the artist.

vagskal
2010-11-16, 15:46
Why not just make 'James Bond' the ALBUMARTIST and leave it as a non-compilation album by getting rid of the COMPILATION=1 tag? Then 'James Bond' will appear in the artist list and track artists will still be suppressed from the list.

In the album list (when sorted by artist) it will appear exactly the same whether or not it's considered a compilation. It will be sorted under 'James Bond' and will show 'James Bond' as the artist.

Good idea, thanks. It may have other side effects (outside SBS) for me though. And this is really a small issue for me. The James Bond example and a couple of VA albums with songs by a poet, not a singer, are the only albums I can think of where this is an issue. If I have a tribute album I usually have one or more albums by the original artist.

donfraggle
2010-11-16, 22:44
I am using Mp3tag v2.46e for tagging my mp3s. They are organized in a directory structure: artist/album.
There are many files in this structure with an EMPTY album name. These files are no compilations:

Directory "Water Lilly":
Artist=Water Lilliy; Title: aaa; Album: <blank>; Album Artist: <blank>
Artist=Water Lilliy; Title: bbb; Album: <blank>; Album Artist: <blank>
Artist=Water Lilliy; Title: ccc; Album: <blank>; Album Artist: <blank>

Directory "Ann Lee":
Artist=Ann Lee; Title: ddd; Album: <blank>; Album Artist: <blank>
Artist=Ann Lee; Title: eee; Album: <blank>; Album Artist: <blank>

I am using these music settings:
* TPE2-Tag is used for BAND
* Sort albums by band
* Assign compilations to BAND

If SBS indexing my music folders following happens:
After the first step (scanning directories) I see the 2 artists under "Artists", also "Ann Lee" and "Water Lilly". Under this entry appear "No album". If I step into this, after the second scanning step (grouping various artists) the attribute "Compilation" is in both cases set to "Yes" - I am wondering about that. Finally all compilations are grouped together under "Various Artists" and the title is "No Album". Within this are 2.000 or more titles! The Artists names of these titles doesn't longer appear in "Artists".

If I switch my music settings to "Assign compilation to artists", then also my real compilations are not grouped any longer under "Various Artists".

How can I remove the "No album" from the "Various Artists"? How can I prevent the sbs to detect a compilation in case of an empty album name?

Phil Leigh
2010-11-16, 23:22
Any track with a missing Album tag will be assigned to the "No Album" category... as you end up with tracks by multiple artists in the "No Album" category, the compilation status is assigned.

You really need to assign proper Album tags!

donfraggle
2010-11-17, 00:38
You really need to assign proper Album tags!

Thank you very much. This will be a lot of work...

garym
2010-11-17, 07:39
Thank you very much. This will be a lot of work...

If the album info is either in the track file name or in the directory structure, it is easy to automate using mp3tag to fill the album name from the file name or directory structure.

linvale
2010-11-17, 08:40
Another useful feature of MP3 Tag is to download the TAGs from Amazon - which are pretty good, or use one of the databases such as MuiscBrainz Picard to assign the tags (I use Jaicoz and like the interface). Lots of ways to do it but it has to be done!

MrSinatra
2010-11-18, 09:58
Thank you very much. This will be a lot of work...

indeed. vote for this bug:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8324

prabbit
2010-11-19, 23:01
Thanks to lordgibbness for posting this question and to everyone who answered it. It was because of the answers in this thread that I realized I was using the "Album Artist" field incorrectly. After I switched how I was using it and applied comp=1 to my Various Artists albums (and a rescan), everything fell into place.

Phil Leigh
2010-11-20, 01:47
Thank you very much. This will be a lot of work...

If your folder structure is correct (Artist/Album), it will take a few minutes in MP3Tag to convert to tags...