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Zartog
2004-09-02, 13:00
I downloaded a CD from iTunes Music Store but Squeeze Box won't play it - the message < can't open file> appears.
I know this is not a sqeeze box problem. But is there an answer to it or have Apple encrypted the music thus making it impossible SB to play it quite by accident.
The Music Store come-on makes it seem that there are few restrictions [ can play on 5 different computers - burn CDs - play on car mp3 player etc.
I am hoping you are aware of this problem. Obviously I will not take any more downloads from IT Music Store if there is no solution.
Must take this opportunity to thanks for a brilliant piece of equipment - it's changed my life- for the better.

I am in the UK and use a Dell top end

Ken Anderson
2004-09-02, 13:11
Zartog,

You have 2 basic avenues - use Hymn to remove the protection on the AAC
file, or create a CD from your protected AAC file and then re-import
it.

Ken

On Sep 2, 2004, at 4:00 PM, Zartog wrote:

> I downloaded a CD from iTunes Music Store but Squeeze Box won't play
> it - the message < can't open file> appears.
> I know this is not a sqeeze box problem. But is there an answer to it
> or have Apple encrypted the music thus making it impossible SB to play
> it quite by accident.
> The Music Store come-on makes it seem that there are few restrictions
> [ can play on 5 different computers - burn CDs - play on car mp3
> player etc.
> I am hoping you are aware of this problem. Obviously I will not take
> any more downloads from IT Music Store if there is no solution.
> Must take this opportunity to thanks for a brilliant piece of
> equipment - it's changed my life- for the better.
>
> I am in the UK and use a Dell top end
>

Daniel Cohen
2004-09-02, 13:32
On 2/9/04 at 4:11 pm -0400, Ken Anderson wrote
>Zartog,
>
>You have 2 basic avenues - use Hymn to remove the protection on the
>AAC file, or create a CD from your protected AAC file and then
>re-import it.

And a third way. It costs money (shareware program) but they are
useful programs for other purposes as well. Use Audio Hijack (or
Audio Hijack Pro) to play the track and hijack it as AIFF format.
--
Daniel Cohen

Pbox
2004-09-02, 18:49
Zartog wrote:
>
> I downloaded a CD from iTunes Music Store but Squeeze Box won't play it
> - the message < can't open file> appears.
> I know this is not a sqeeze box problem. But is there an answer to it or
> have Apple encrypted the music thus making it impossible SB to play it
> quite by accident.
> The Music Store come-on makes it seem that there are few restrictions [
> can play on 5 different computers - burn CDs - play on car mp3 player etc.
> I am hoping you are aware of this problem. Obviously I will not take any
> more downloads from IT Music Store if there is no solution.
> Must take this opportunity to thanks for a brilliant piece of equipment
> - it's changed my life- for the better.
>
> I am in the UK and use a Dell top end

Hi Zartog,

The Apple iTunes Music Store is DRM encumbered. While at first it seems
to give you generous rights, in reality it is way more restricted than a
CD ever will be (including all known anti-copy measures). BTW, most
music stores are the same in this department: Microsoft uses DRM'd WMA,
Real and Napster as well...

At this point you have a few choices:

1. Buy the CD. It is by far the least restricted AND better quality than
any of the above.

2. Shop at non-DRM music stores (YES there are some, but the selection
is much narrower). I like emusic.com for my blues/jazz/electronica
needs. Magnatune.com for experimental and exotic. Bleep.com is good for
dance and IDM and abstract electronica. By supporting these stores you
vote with your money!

There is one more thing: all of these formats are 2 channel 16bit
resolution, 44.1 kHz sampling rate music. It can be better! SACD and
DVD-A allows much better quality, but they are heavily DRM'd, and
currently there is no workaround, neither there is a "standard" format
which you can rip it to. MP3 people are working on adding more channels
to the spec, AAC already allows, and WMA has it as well. However you
cannot obtain any of these formats online in a store. If I have read
Microsoft's music store announcement right, they are planning on selling
multi-channel files. (see the CD writing info page, about how it will
downsample it to stereo on burn) If this is truly the case it might
force iTunes and the rest to offer the same. This might be a reason to
actually purchase DRM'd crap. If it gets widespread and emusic and
others will foll.ow, it will also mean a new SqueezeBox. Maybe QuadBox,
or SurroundBox? Anyway, the optical/coax out of the current SB can
already handle it, if your receiver can...

jacobdp
2004-09-02, 18:59
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:49:55 -0700, Pbox <slimdev (AT) peterlada (DOT) com> wrote:
> There is one more thing: all of these formats are 2 channel 16bit
> resolution, 44.1 kHz sampling rate music.

Except they aren't, they're 2-channel 16bit 44.1kHz audio that's been
lossily compressed down to 128kbps or 160kbps. As far as I know,
allofmp3.com is the only one that'll give you losslessly-encoded
music.

> It can be better! SACD and DVD-A allows much better quality...

Then comes the question of whether any sanely-priced audio system can
truly take advantage of anything more than 16-bit 44.1kHz. And
remember, 128kbps is 128kbps no matter how many channels it's divided
up among.

- Jacob

Pbox
2004-09-02, 22:47
Jacob Potter wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:49:55 -0700, Pbox <slimdev (AT) peterlada (DOT) com> wrote:
>
>>There is one more thing: all of these formats are 2 channel 16bit
>>resolution, 44.1 kHz sampling rate music.
>
> Except they aren't, they're 2-channel 16bit 44.1kHz audio that's been
> lossily compressed down to 128kbps or 160kbps. As far as I know,
> allofmp3.com is the only one that'll give you losslessly-encoded
> music.

Well, magnatune does too. And I have used allofmp3, but I did notice
that they don't treat their source material carefully, so it made me
suspicious that when I request 320 VBR, it might just get converted from
128 kbps... Here is what scared me:

Tosca - Chocolate Elvis. It is an excellent album, I got it off
allofmp3. It is a continious music of about 60 minutes with 10+ tracks.
The songs flow from one to another without missing a beat. However the
mp3s I got off AOM, the Track XX - "Au Version" the loudness was
normalized, ie. the end of previous track you can start hearing the
ambient sound of birds chirping, but when the aforementioned track comes
up it is about 3-4 times louder. When this ends and the next track comes
up, the bird chirping goes back to 3-4 quiter. What it really means that
the volume was normalized between the ripping and the download. I really
don't appreciate that, and makes me suspicious of any track I got off of
them. It is trivial to implement a server where requesting 320 VBR, gets
fullfilled by uncompressing 128 CBR and recompressing 320 VBR???

Anyway, just griping...

>>It can be better! SACD and DVD-A allows much better quality...
>
> Then comes the question of whether any sanely-priced audio system can
> truly take advantage of anything more than 16-bit 44.1kHz. And
> remember, 128kbps is 128kbps no matter how many channels it's divided
> up among.

I got my Panny SAXR45 at full Msrp for $300 + Panny 5 DVD changer (DVD-A
as well) for another $100. Add 3 pairs of 3-way KLH speakers for $120
plus my 12" subwoofer for $100. Now we are talking $620. Most audio
people would not call this "insanely" priced system, yet I can tell when
I play DVD-A vs. CDs... And yes, I think the the sub channel could even
be encoded at 80-150 kps WITHOUT any loss (remember the sub cutoff is at
80-100Hz)... And I think a good 5.1 with 96kHz sampling and 20-24 bit
resolution could be as low as 360-900 kbps. I wish just someone would
sell it to me...

Pbox

seanadams
2004-09-02, 23:03
There is really no such thing as 320Kbps VBR. Since 320Kbps is the max
rate for any mp3 frame, 320K vbr is exactly the same as 320K CBR - you
can't go any higher, so 320K VBR must mean every frame is 320K.


On Sep 2, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Pbox wrote:

> Jacob Potter wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:49:55 -0700, Pbox <slimdev (AT) peterlada (DOT) com>
>> wrote:
>>> There is one more thing: all of these formats are 2 channel 16bit
>>> resolution, 44.1 kHz sampling rate music.
>> Except they aren't, they're 2-channel 16bit 44.1kHz audio that's been
>> lossily compressed down to 128kbps or 160kbps. As far as I know,
>> allofmp3.com is the only one that'll give you losslessly-encoded
>> music.
>
> Well, magnatune does too. And I have used allofmp3, but I did notice
> that they don't treat their source material carefully, so it made me
> suspicious that when I request 320 VBR, it might just get converted
> from 128 kbps... Here is what scared me:
>
> Tosca - Chocolate Elvis. It is an excellent album, I got it off
> allofmp3. It is a continious music of about 60 minutes with 10+
> tracks. The songs flow from one to another without missing a beat.
> However the mp3s I got off AOM, the Track XX - "Au Version" the
> loudness was normalized, ie. the end of previous track you can start
> hearing the ambient sound of birds chirping, but when the
> aforementioned track comes up it is about 3-4 times louder. When this
> ends and the next track comes up, the bird chirping goes back to 3-4
> quiter. What it really means that the volume was normalized between
> the ripping and the download. I really don't appreciate that, and
> makes me suspicious of any track I got off of them. It is trivial to
> implement a server where requesting 320 VBR, gets fullfilled by
> uncompressing 128 CBR and recompressing 320 VBR???
>
> Anyway, just griping...
>
>>> It can be better! SACD and DVD-A allows much better quality...
>> Then comes the question of whether any sanely-priced audio system can
>> truly take advantage of anything more than 16-bit 44.1kHz. And
>> remember, 128kbps is 128kbps no matter how many channels it's divided
>> up among.
>
> I got my Panny SAXR45 at full Msrp for $300 + Panny 5 DVD changer
> (DVD-A as well) for another $100. Add 3 pairs of 3-way KLH speakers
> for $120 plus my 12" subwoofer for $100. Now we are talking $620. Most
> audio people would not call this "insanely" priced system, yet I can
> tell when I play DVD-A vs. CDs... And yes, I think the the sub channel
> could even be encoded at 80-150 kps WITHOUT any loss (remember the sub
> cutoff is at 80-100Hz)... And I think a good 5.1 with 96kHz sampling
> and 20-24 bit resolution could be as low as 360-900 kbps. I wish just
> someone would sell it to me...
>
> Pbox
>

Pbox
2004-09-02, 23:16
Sean Adams wrote:

> There is really no such thing as 320Kbps VBR. Since 320Kbps is the max
> rate for any mp3 frame, 320K vbr is exactly the same as 320K CBR - you
> can't go any higher, so 320K VBR must mean every frame is 320K.

:-)

Stand corrected.

I meant alt-extreme, where the most space-intensive 320 kbps frames are
abound. You are right these are mostly like 231-270 kbps average songs.

I guess it would be a challange to create an mp3 file where the
alt-extreme setting would pick 320kbps for each and every frame. I would
venture as far as guessing that it would be completely unlistenable...
Any composers here?

Pbox

Kevin O. Lepard
2004-09-03, 07:44
>There is really no such thing as 320Kbps VBR. Since 320Kbps is the
>max rate for any mp3 frame, 320K vbr is exactly the same as 320K CBR
>- you can't go any higher, so 320K VBR must mean every frame is
>320K.j

Really? Or would it mean that the maximum encoding rate was 320
Kbps? I thought the idea of VBR was that it would use more bits when
needed and fewer when it was not.

I have never really understood what the specified bit rate meant in
the context of a VBR file.

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard
lepard.kevin (AT) fireserve (DOT) net

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.