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Beesley, S
2004-08-29, 04:51
Hi, I saw that Slim plan to support DRM protected WMA files soon. Does anybody know when this will be supported?

Thanks

kdf
2004-08-29, 08:15
Quoting "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>:

> Hi, I saw that Slim plan to support DRM protected WMA files soon. Does
> anybody know when this will be supported?

where did you see that?
-kdf

Beesley, S
2004-08-29, 15:03
I just checked again. I read this
----
Does Squeezebox support Windows Media or Real Player formats?
Squeezebox does support WMA CBR, WMA VBR, and WMA Lossless encoded files
(but not DRM protected files) when SlimServer is running on Windows. We hope
to add support for streamed WMA and Real formats in the near future.

----
I'm sorry - I guess I misread the paragraph.
....

----- Original Message -----
From: "kdf" <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:15 PM
Subject: [slim] WMA DRM


> Quoting "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>:
>
> > Hi, I saw that Slim plan to support DRM protected WMA files soon. Does
> > anybody know when this will be supported?
>
> where did you see that?
> -kdf
>
>

Beesley, S
2004-08-29, 15:04
Sorry - I just re-read the FAQ. I saw this
----
Does Squeezebox support Windows Media or Real Player formats?
Squeezebox does support WMA CBR, WMA VBR, and WMA Lossless encoded files
(but not DRM protected files) when SlimServer is running on Windows. We hope
to add support for streamed WMA and Real formats in the near future.

----
I guess I misread the sentance. Will there be any support in the future for
DRM?

....
----- Original Message -----
From: "kdf" <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:15 PM
Subject: [slim] WMA DRM


> Quoting "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>:
>
> > Hi, I saw that Slim plan to support DRM protected WMA files soon. Does
> > anybody know when this will be supported?
>
> where did you see that?
> -kdf
>
>

kdf
2004-08-29, 15:24
Quoting "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>:

> Sorry - I just re-read the FAQ. I saw this
> ----
> Does Squeezebox support Windows Media or Real Player formats?
> Squeezebox does support WMA CBR, WMA VBR, and WMA Lossless encoded files
> (but not DRM protected files) when SlimServer is running on Windows. We hope
> to add support for streamed WMA and Real formats in the near future.
>
> ----
> I guess I misread the sentance. Will there be any support in the future for
> DRM?

Given their stance in siding with the EFF, and the increased tightening of
licenses by companies providing DRM-crippled formats, its unlikely.

seanadams
2004-08-29, 20:32
Our support for the EFF should not be taken as an indication that we
are shunning DRM and proprietary formats on principle.

Of course we think these formats suck, and we'd rather music came in
convenient formats, but our goal is still to make Squeezebox support as
many formats as possible.

If anyone wants us to support their format then we're more than happy
to look into it. The thing to keep in mind though is that the whole
point of DRM is to keep proprietary systems proprietary - forget when
the RIAA tells you about copy protection - Steve Jobs knows what it's
all about. :)

On Aug 29, 2004, at 3:24 PM, kdf wrote:

> Quoting "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>:
>
>> Sorry - I just re-read the FAQ. I saw this
>> ----
>> Does Squeezebox support Windows Media or Real Player formats?
>> Squeezebox does support WMA CBR, WMA VBR, and WMA Lossless encoded
>> files
>> (but not DRM protected files) when SlimServer is running on Windows.
>> We hope
>> to add support for streamed WMA and Real formats in the near future.
>>
>> ----
>> I guess I misread the sentance. Will there be any support in the
>> future for
>> DRM?
>
> Given their stance in siding with the EFF, and the increased
> tightening of
> licenses by companies providing DRM-crippled formats, its unlikely.
>

Beesley, S
2004-08-30, 07:10
I understand, but being "proprietary" never stops programmers for very
long... I am in no way asking for DRM to be disabled or bypassed, but it
would be great if SB could play DRM protected files as long as the license
is still valid for that song...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Adams" <sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 4:32 AM
Subject: [slim] WMA DRM


>
>
> Our support for the EFF should not be taken as an indication that we
> are shunning DRM and proprietary formats on principle.
>
> Of course we think these formats suck, and we'd rather music came in
> convenient formats, but our goal is still to make Squeezebox support as
> many formats as possible.
>
> If anyone wants us to support their format then we're more than happy
> to look into it. The thing to keep in mind though is that the whole
> point of DRM is to keep proprietary systems proprietary - forget when
> the RIAA tells you about copy protection - Steve Jobs knows what it's
> all about. :)
>
> On Aug 29, 2004, at 3:24 PM, kdf wrote:
>
> > Quoting "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>:
> >
> >> Sorry - I just re-read the FAQ. I saw this
> >> ----
> >> Does Squeezebox support Windows Media or Real Player formats?
> >> Squeezebox does support WMA CBR, WMA VBR, and WMA Lossless encoded
> >> files
> >> (but not DRM protected files) when SlimServer is running on Windows.
> >> We hope
> >> to add support for streamed WMA and Real formats in the near future.
> >>
> >> ----
> >> I guess I misread the sentance. Will there be any support in the
> >> future for
> >> DRM?
> >
> > Given their stance in siding with the EFF, and the increased
> > tightening of
> > licenses by companies providing DRM-crippled formats, its unlikely.
> >

Jules Taplin
2004-08-30, 09:29
If only it were that simple.

If you just consider for a moment what slimserver is all about doing - it's
about taking music, and making it available to multiple devices over TCP/IP.

As it stands, the devices themselves don't understand DRM (and
realistically... a squeezebox is pretty much the definition of a 'thin
client'), and there are software emulations of them that are open source. In
fact... if I want a stream from slimserver, I've only to ask for it.
(http://squeezeserver_host:9000/stream.mp3).

So... in it's current state, it's hard to see why anybody with a vested
interest in DRM lock-in would be interested in cooperating. And this is the
essence of the entire problem with DRM as a technology - to prevent
infringing use... it has to prevent uninfringing use as well. Slimserver,
squeezeboxes, softsqueeze, etc... have nothing infringing in them. If you
take me as an example... there are 5 squeezeboxes around the house... I run
softsqueeze in my study... and I even use softsqueeze from work, so I can
listen to my music there.

But... look at that from a DRM perspective... and it's clearly out of order.
The DRM credo is always 'guilty unless proven innocent'... So... of those 6
or so endpoints... they've no way of knowing that those 5 squeezeboxes
aren't all 'me', effectively... and you just plain can't trust softsqueeze -
it could have been patched to do almost anything (and in true paranoia
state, that probably means either streaming to the entire known world, or
running a CD burning operation that's responsible for 500m of lost sales in
the last 3 weeks alone *grin*). And god only know the embolisms that would
be caused by the idea of using the public internet to get to my music from
work.... that's _BOUND_ to infringe on something there - what if other
people were near my desk?

Hence the problem. It's also the reason that lots of folks who have thought
about this have decided that buying DRM'd music is a complete non starter.
Right now, if you want to buy music... your best bet is to get it on CD, rip
it, and store the CD somewhere safe. That way (if you make sure that it's
actually a 'CD' - not some crippled disk that Philips won't allow to be
called one), you have both the music in a useful form (once it's ripped),
but a permanent backup copy of it, that isn't reliant on the original source
of the data deciding to change it's T's & C's to prevent re-downloads, or
just plain going out of business or similar.

It's all a pain, but there you are.


-- Jules

----- Original Message -----
From: "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 3:10 PM
Subject: [slim] WMA DRM


>I understand, but being "proprietary" never stops programmers for very
> long... I am in no way asking for DRM to be disabled or bypassed, but it
> would be great if SB could play DRM protected files as long as the license
> is still valid for that song...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Adams" <sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com>
> To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 4:32 AM
> Subject: [slim] WMA DRM
>
>
>>
>>
>> Our support for the EFF should not be taken as an indication that we
>> are shunning DRM and proprietary formats on principle.
>>
>> Of course we think these formats suck, and we'd rather music came in
>> convenient formats, but our goal is still to make Squeezebox support as
>> many formats as possible.
>>
>> If anyone wants us to support their format then we're more than happy
>> to look into it. The thing to keep in mind though is that the whole
>> point of DRM is to keep proprietary systems proprietary - forget when
>> the RIAA tells you about copy protection - Steve Jobs knows what it's
>> all about. :)
>>
>> On Aug 29, 2004, at 3:24 PM, kdf wrote:
>>
>> > Quoting "Beesley, S" <sbeesley (AT) dsl (DOT) pipex.com>:
>> >
>> >> Sorry - I just re-read the FAQ. I saw this
>> >> ----
>> >> Does Squeezebox support Windows Media or Real Player formats?
>> >> Squeezebox does support WMA CBR, WMA VBR, and WMA Lossless encoded
>> >> files
>> >> (but not DRM protected files) when SlimServer is running on Windows.
>> >> We hope
>> >> to add support for streamed WMA and Real formats in the near future.
>> >>
>> >> ----
>> >> I guess I misread the sentance. Will there be any support in the
>> >> future for
>> >> DRM?
>> >
>> > Given their stance in siding with the EFF, and the increased
>> > tightening of
>> > licenses by companies providing DRM-crippled formats, its unlikely.
>> >