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EdPell
2010-07-11, 13:48
Just out of curiosity.

Now that you have that huge number of CDs ripped to some magnetic device, what have you done with them?

I suppose they're put away somewhere - what have you stored them in? Do you often have to access them for one reason or another such as to load your vehicle's CD player?

Thanks
EdP

slate
2010-07-11, 14:03
All stored away in small fruit boxes in the basement.
I only have about 30 standing in the stereorack for decorative purposes ie hiding the cables and power block.

My old Luxman D-107u player is moved to my home office.... haven't used it for.... years

socistep
2010-07-11, 14:48
Just out of curiosity.

Now that you have that huge number of CDs ripped to some magnetic device, what have you done with them?

I suppose they're put away somewhere - what have you stored them in? Do you often have to access them for one reason or another such as to load your vehicle's CD player?

Thanks
EdP

When I moved in with my girlfriend all my cd's went in a box and have stayed there, new music I buy stays in my office/den room and a couple of times a year they make the trip up to the loft to join the others. I still buy cd's but a lot of them never actually get played. some go in the car but I tend to use mp3's on a SD card there most of the time

SuperQ
2010-07-11, 18:28
It all gets loaded onto my server and then after a month of being annoying on the desk put in a storage bin in the closet.

I don't drive much, but I still have my empeg. :)

aubuti
2010-07-11, 19:28
It all gets loaded onto my server and then after a month of being annoying on the desk put in a storage bin in the closet.
That sounds just like my system. My storage bins are basic Rubbermaid bins with lids that hold about 150 CDs each, just deep enough (about 15cm) to stand the CDs on edge with their spines showing, so it's easy to grab a particular CD if I never need to.

Daverz
2010-07-11, 19:54
Unfortunately, right now they are all over the place, some in storage boxes, some in those dowel type racks, some stacked here and there, and some shucked of their jewel boxes and stored in large CD binders, the kind with plastic sleeves for CDs on both sides of a "page" ("Case it" is the brand, they are 304 CD capacity). I store everything from the jewel boxes, including booklets and tray papers, in the binders, so they only hold about half the capacity of CDs.

The plan is to store everything currently in a jewel box in these binders, with everything else stored in my remaining CD racks. That's a lot of jewel box shucking to do, but when I'm done I think that about 3000 CDs will be able to fit in one large, sturdy bookcase.

agillis
2010-07-11, 20:10
I don't need my CDs for my car becasue I have a VortexBox in my car as well as my home. I got rid of the cases and have my CDs stored on spindles to save space.

eq72521
2010-07-11, 20:58
Nicely organized on the 1000 CD shelf I bought before I started seriously digitizing everything. However, that shelf has been demoted to my office, and it's boxed in by a bunch of stuff I need to divest. However, when I relocated out of state for a couple years from 2006-2008, the CDs and the shelf stayed in storage near home. I'd probably stop buying them altogether if FLAC was offered as a purchasable option.

pski
2010-07-11, 21:20
They are downstairs in the pool room, arranged alphabetically, just like before I could play them anywhere/anytime.

elstensoftware
2010-07-12, 02:14
Even though I don't actually use CDs to listen to, I still need them to rip from because, in most cases, I prefer to store music in higher quality using flac.

This means I need to have my stack of CDs and their cases accessible to add to, but not retrieve from. Other computer scientists may also be mulling over efficient storage furniture :D Currently the CDs are piled on top of each other.

funkstar
2010-07-12, 03:19
All mine are in 18l Really Useful Boxes in my self storage locker along with a ton of Lego and all my boxed up DVDs. If I had the space, I would line a room with shelves and have them all in there alone with the shelves of books I've accumulated over the years :)

spile
2010-07-12, 04:05
Still on my CD racks but in vertical stacks pushed to the back in order to take up less room.

carib
2010-07-12, 05:11
Lining up cd cases on a shelf looks nice but they get overbearing when they're just too many of them. SO, I decided to go with this:

http://www.amazon.com/Ideastream-CD-Storage-Box-SNS01521/dp/B00062UW5A

but without the cases. Each CD goes in a plastic lined paper sleeve:

http://www.amazon.com/100-Paper-Sleeves-Window-Flap/dp/B0019X20R8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278936371&sr=8-1

OUT WITH AL THE JEWELBOXES!!! Hurray.

EdPell
2010-07-12, 05:59
Carib ...

I kinda like that solution.
Did the liner notes fit in the sleeves along with the CD? Or did you chuck those along with the jewel cases.

EdP

copperstate
2010-07-12, 06:17
All new cd purchases get ripped and then stored in couple of wall-height set of shelves shared by my cds, dvds and books.

garym
2010-07-12, 08:42
use "jewel sleeves" and related file cabinet to store disc, front, and back inserts, but dump the jewel case. I can store about 1,000 CDs in a 3' x 3' cabinet.
http://jewelsleeve.com/

carib
2010-07-12, 10:12
Carib ...

I kinda like that solution.
Did the liner notes fit in the sleeves along with the CD? Or did you chuck those along with the jewel cases.

EdP

You can trim the front cover art and fit it in the envelope with the CD but anything else (ie, booklets) goes right besides each CD in the box. Works for me.

garym
2010-07-12, 10:14
use "jewel sleeves" and related file cabinet to store disc, front, and back inserts, but dump the jewel case. I can store about 1,000 CDs in a 3' x 3' cabinet.
http://jewelsleeve.com/

Note that this approach has enough room in the separate jewel sleeve compartments for front,back inserts, liner note inserts, and the disc. And the size is such that one does not need to do any trimming of the inserts. The whole thing is "purpose designed" for storing everything EXCEPT the jewelcase.

carib
2010-07-12, 10:32
use "jewel sleeves" and related file cabinet to store disc, front, and back inserts, but dump the jewel case. I can store about 1,000 CDs in a 3' x 3' cabinet.
http://jewelsleeve.com/

This looks really nice too.

iPhone
2010-07-12, 10:38
Nice solutions everybody!

My cousin uses the wall unit bookshelves like Staples and Office Depot carry. They tend to hold CDs two deep and two high on each shelf, there are 6 or 7 shelves in each unit and a boatload of CDs fit in each row times 4 per shelf. I was using shelves from floor to ceiling along the long wall of my listening room until my collection got to big and thank the stars Slim Devices came along.

My CDs are now in these nice wooden boxes that Ericsson Mobitex transceivers are shipped in. Each box holds 540 CDs. The boxes are labeled with an inventory list of what CDs are in them and stacked on chrome wire shelving in the basement storage room. The original boxes are all alphabetical, but once they were boxed and sealed, I now just fill up a box and label it with its inventory.

I have tried several different things. The Rubbermaid tubs work well. The are stackable and have a snap shut lid as well as handles on the side. The wooden boxes just hold so many more CDs and were free.

EdPell
2010-07-12, 12:55
I came across JewelSleeves during my searches for CD storage devices. A perfect sleeve solution, but a bit costly; it'll cost $480 to sleeve 1000 CDs.

That kind of price begins to make Can-Am's MC2D14 cabinet look pretty good, although shipping a steel cabinet can get expensive. It's $100 to ship to my city and I'm only 320 miles from the factory!

http://tinyurl.com/3xysofr

EdP

hunta
2010-07-13, 05:58
Just out of curiosity.

Now that you have that huge number of CDs ripped to some magnetic device, what have you done with them?
EdP


Good point. Do you know, I have absolutely no idea!

JonWill
2010-07-13, 07:05
Attached picture explains two things - (i) why my CDs are now neatly alphabeticised on shelves in a cupboar out of sight and (ii) why I finally took the plunge and got a Squeezebox set up.

Haven't looked back since!

EdPell
2010-07-13, 07:11
Now THAT'S funny!
Wise of you to get the camera.

Makes me so sad that I never had kids.

JonWill
2010-07-13, 07:15
Funny now ... took a while to get the Cds back into orer. And this was at least their fourth, and by far and away most successful, assault on cataloguing system!

pski
2010-07-13, 10:17
1 x 6 shelving and 1/4 plywood plus stainless steel wood screws:

maggior
2010-07-13, 11:07
I did something similar to pski but made them as wall units out of MDF. Pictures are below.

Sadly, I've filled the 3 of them that I built 7 years ago. With 3 kids now, I don't have the time to build another unit. I may be taking the "fill a rubbermaid tub with some discs" route. The trouble there is how to choose which ones get sent to long term storage.

Boxsets have been relegated to the top - space there is running out too.

maggior
2010-07-13, 18:28
Attached picture explains two things - (i) why my CDs are now neatly alphabeticised on shelves in a cupboar out of sight and (ii) why I finally took the plunge and got a Squeezebox set up.

Haven't looked back since!

Oh my!!! :-)

I might have had a heart attack if my kids did that. I guess I should thank my wife for forbidding the CD collection from being kept upstairs :-).

darbelis12
2010-07-14, 07:43
My cds is in my case.
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iPhone
2010-07-14, 07:49
Nice solution Rich! Time to put up two bookends on the top shelf so the whole top row can be a long shelf and the Box Sets go into a closet like mine have. Wish all the new Box Sets would take a page from the Beatles and come out in FLAC on a USB Drive. No ripping required and hardly any space taken up!

ModelCitizen
2010-07-14, 08:45
I dislike clutter and won't fill up my living space with useless objects. All but a few of my CDs went to a second hand CD shop.

Phil Leigh
2010-07-14, 09:32
I dislike clutter and won't fill up my living space with useless objects. All but a few of my CDs went to a second hand CD shop.

ahem...

EdPell
2010-07-14, 10:16
ahem...

hmmm ... I wonder what he meant by that ...

garym
2010-07-14, 10:33
hmmm ... I wonder what he meant by that ...

No sure, but maybe in some countries, it would be illegal to have the digital version of the music without owning the CD itself. Not sure....

aubuti
2010-07-14, 10:45
and in some countries not illegal per se, but constituting a civil offense of copyright infringement

slate
2010-07-14, 11:04
which is not very model citizen

Phil Leigh
2010-07-14, 11:47
No sure, but maybe in some countries, it would be illegal to have the digital version of the music without owning the CD itself. Not sure....

er yes - I'm pretty sure its illegal in all countries. In the UK it's technically illegal to rip the CD as that subverts mechanical copyright - although no-one has been prosecuted for doing this and almost certainly never will. This is a tacit admission of the correctness of "fair use" rulings you have enjoyed in the US.

It's absolutely illegal to rip a cd then sell the CD and keep the rip - same as it ever was to buy a vinyl album or CD, copy it to tape or whatever and then return the vinyl or CD to the shop or sell it on second-hand...

This is why I keep my CD's in the garage.

This is the whole problem with the antiquated mechnical copyright laws. Basically you are buying a licence to enjoy the music on the physical format you bought - and only that. Absolutely nothing more.

Digital downloads supersede this for obvious reasons - there is no physical medium to be locked to. Unfortunately, you have to actually buy a download to benefit from this freedom - because it is THAT transaction that gives you the legal right to replay the music from any physical transport mechanism at your disposal. There is no transfer or grandfathering of rights, so you can't claim (for example):

"Well I had the CD, ripped it, sold the CD but it's ok because I could have downloaded the track." I'm afraid that simply won't hold up in any European Court.

I'm not wishing to put a downer on anything/anyone. I'm just think people need to be aware...

maggior
2010-07-14, 11:56
Nice solution Rich! Time to put up two bookends on the top shelf so the whole top row can be a long shelf and the Box Sets go into a closet like mine have. Wish all the new Box Sets would take a page from the Beatles and come out in FLAC on a USB Drive. No ripping required and hardly any space taken up!

Thanks iPhone. It took me 5 full days to build those. It was a lot of planning, sawing, drilling, sanding, priming, painting, and assembly. It is a nice solution, but definitely a time consuming one.

I just recently ran out of space, so I hadn't really put a lot of thought into what to do. Obviously some will have to go elsewhere, but which ones? I like your idea of putting boxsets elsewhere. They are already separated from the artist's location in the shelves, so what difference does it make if they find themselves in a closet. The top row would take a good amount of time to fill up.

Just moving the Miles Davis boxes will make a big difference :-). For astute viewers, you will notice 3 of them. One is the original defective set with glue problems, the next one is a good replacement set with a damaged outer box, and the last one is a replacement outer box. At least they got it right eventually.

iPhone
2010-07-14, 14:53
Just moving the Miles Davis boxes will make a big difference :-). For astute viewers, you will notice 3 of them. One is the original defective set with glue problems, the next one is a good replacement set with a damaged outer box, and the last one is a replacement outer box. At least they got it right eventually.

Thanks for making that clarification, I am looking at getting the Miles Davis box set and thought the one I'm looking at might be a fraud as there is only one box and I saw you had three making me think the box set spanned 3 boxes.

On reflection, I do now remember the glue story but some how didn't put it together or was thinking the defects went back.

maggior
2010-07-15, 07:11
Thanks for making that clarification, I am looking at getting the Miles Davis box set and thought the one I'm looking at might be a fraud as there is only one box and I saw you had three making me think the box set spanned 3 boxes.

On reflection, I do now remember the glue story but some how didn't put it together or was thinking the defects went back.

No problem. If you are buying the set used, be sure to ask the seller if it is a set that had/has glue problems. I'm sure there are plenty of people who received a replacement set and are selling their original set.

I found that I was able to clean the glue off successfully, but it took an hour of my time. 71 discs are a lot of discs to check and clean. I was able to get a clean rip on them all. Point being that even if the set is from the original problematic run, if may be fine/salvagable.

Sakkerju
2010-07-15, 07:43
All my popular music CD's are ripped to .FLAC with EAC Exact Audio Copy, no MP3. CD's are all stored in a cardboard box on the attic.

My classical music CD's are still played with my CD player.
I have no classical music ripped...

For some reason this way suits me fine.

youngml2009
2010-07-15, 07:43
Attached picture explains two things - (i) why my CDs are now neatly alphabeticised on shelves in a cupboar out of sight and (ii) why I finally took the plunge and got a Squeezebox set up.

Haven't looked back since!

Awesome picture! That is the best advertisement for Squeezebox I have ever seen.

Zoltan
2010-07-15, 09:24
I noticed someone mentioned the JewelSleeve approach earlier.

I used something similar from www.jazzloft.com with great success.

I'm pretty sure I looked into JewelSleeve at the time and am guessing it was the cost that decided it. The sleeves from Jazz Loft are 15 cents, or 7.50 USD for 50, whereas they are 24 USD from JewelSleeve. I don't know if there is any technical difference between them but the Jazz Loft ones are good enough for me.

BTW, the sleeves don't look like much in their unfilled form but once the CD and inserts are in they seem a bit more substantial - it becomes a bit like a mini gatefold LP. The main disadvantage of them is that you can't easily read the spine. This isn't much of a problem for me as I have enough CDs that are in non-standard boxes etc., interspersed with the sleeved ones, that I can quickly get to the right ballpark if I need to (which is rare in any case these days).

carib
2010-07-15, 12:16
I noticed someone mentioned the JewelSleeve approach earlier.

I used something similar from www.jazzloft.com with great success.

I'm pretty sure I looked into JewelSleeve at the time and am guessing it was the cost that decided it. The sleeves from Jazz Loft are 15 cents, or 7.50 USD for 50, whereas they are 24 USD from JewelSleeve. I don't know if there is any technical difference between them but the Jazz Loft ones are good enough for me.

BTW, the sleeves don't look like much in their unfilled form but once the CD and inserts are in they seem a bit more substantial - it becomes a bit like a mini gatefold LP. The main disadvantage of them is that you can't easily read the spine. This isn't much of a problem for me as I have enough CDs that are in non-standard boxes etc., interspersed with the sleeved ones, that I can quickly get to the right ballpark if I need to (which is rare in any case these days).

Now THIS I like!

garym
2010-07-15, 12:47
as the jewel sleeve user, I'll note that the sleeves are a little larger than normal (so there is room for the full inserts without cutting) and, I suppose more importantly, there are two "slots" within each sleeve. One is lined with a soft "felt like" material for holding the CD itself. Probably not necessary but this may be one reason these cost more. They will send you a free sample if you want to check them out.

Once in a while they do a major sale on the sleeves. So I just stocked up in the past. And this is all rounding error $$ compared to what I spend on the CDs themselves anyhow ;-)

eq72521
2010-07-15, 23:11
Oh my!!! :-)

I might have had a heart attack if my kids did that. I guess I should thank my wife for forbidding the CD collection from being kept upstairs :-).

Once, I tried sliding across the floor the 1000 CD shelf I mentioned earlier when it was full of about 5-600 CDs. It tipped forward spilling all of my CDs into the general entertainment area (TV, stereo, etc.). The room looked not unlike JonWill's, though I did not take a picture. The television still bears the scars (in the plastic around the screen).

Zoltan
2010-07-16, 10:29
as the jewel sleeve user, I'll note that the sleeves are a little larger than normal (so there is room for the full inserts without cutting) and, I suppose more importantly, there are two "slots" within each sleeve. One is lined with a soft "felt like" material for holding the CD itself. Probably not necessary but this may be one reason these cost more. They will send you a free sample if you want to check them out.

Once in a while they do a major sale on the sleeves. So I just stocked up in the past. And this is all rounding error $$ compared to what I spend on the CDs themselves anyhow ;-)

The Jazz Loft sleeves sound similar in that they have enough room for all inserts. The front booklet goes in one pocket and the back insert and CD goes in the other. The pockets are loose enough to fit a booklet and CD in the case of 2CD sets. The difference from your description is the felt lining - the Jazz Loft ones are just a straight polythene-like material. One thing that does worry me a bit is that, in the sleeves, the CD faces are right up against the insert on one side and the plastic sleeve on the other. In a jewel case, the CD only really touches anything near the spindle and the rest floats free. I don't know whether this has implications for longevity.

You are right that the cost is marginal on a per CD basis but I had a biggish collection (100s) to catch up with and there were international postage charges on top of the price I mentioned above. Anyway, I might try the Jewel Sleeve ones when I need a new batch.

Thanks for the information.

garym
2010-07-16, 10:44
The Jazz Loft sleeves sound similar in that they have enough room for all inserts. The front booklet goes in one pocket and the back insert and CD goes in the other. The pockets are loose enough to fit a booklet and CD in the case of 2CD sets. The difference from your description is the felt lining - the Jazz Loft ones are just a straight polythene-like material. One thing that does worry me a bit is that, in the sleeves, the CD faces are right up against the insert on one side and the plastic sleeve on the other. In a jewel case, the CD only really touches anything near the spindle and the rest floats free. I don't know whether this has implications for longevity.

You are right that the cost is marginal on a per CD basis but I had a biggish collection (100s) to catch up with and there were international postage charges on top of the price I mentioned above. Anyway, I might try the Jewel Sleeve ones when I need a new batch.

Thanks for the information.

Yep, sounds like the "felt" is the only difference. I too wonder about how this storage affects the CD longrun. On the other hand, I truly hope that I never, ever, ever look at the CD again once stored (even before ripping, I read the liner notes once when I purchased the CD and rarely looked at them again). I've got my FLAC version, lots and lots of backup drives in 3 different physical locations in two different cities.

ModelCitizen
2010-07-16, 10:46
This is why I keep my CD's in the garage.

No disrespect here at all Phil but you people are so damn squeaky clean. CDs are impractical (almost useless), take up valuable space, collect dust and just have to go... and some stupid little impractical law that stands no chance of ever being enforced in my house is just not worth a second of my thought. I think I'm pretty normal, but compared to you lot I seem to be something of a renegade.

MC

garym
2010-07-16, 10:57
No disrespect here at all Phil but you people are so damn squeaky clean. CDs are impractical (almost useless), take up valuable space, collect dust and just have to go... and some stupid little impractical law that stands no chance of ever being enforced in my house is just not worth a second of my thought. I think I'm pretty normal, but compared to you lot I seem to be something of a renegade.

MC

I certainly don't keep mine because of legal reasons. Mostly as a last chance recovery should all other backups fail. But honestly, I just have a hard time getting rid of stuff. I still have lots of vinyl albums too....

Phil Leigh
2010-07-16, 11:35
No disrespect here at all Phil but you people are so damn squeaky clean. CDs are impractical (almost useless), take up valuable space, collect dust and just have to go... and some stupid little impractical law that stands no chance of ever being enforced in my house is just not worth a second of my thought. I think I'm pretty normal, but compared to you lot I seem to be something of a renegade.

MC

MC, I don't disagree with any of your points...and I do realise the probability of any legal consequences is very, very small, but:

1) I personally couldn't afford a conviction as I might lose my job (seriously) - and copyright infringement is not merely a "civil matter" in the UK.
2) more importantly, I might lose my music!
3) I hope no-one from the record companies is reading these threads! (only kidding - they have bigger fish to fry than us... after all we DID pay for our music)

I wasn't trying to be sanctimonious or take any kind of moral high ground... just stating the facts in case anyone else reading this was wondering about the legal situation.
Cheers
Phil.

Goodsounds
2010-07-16, 12:33
No disrespect here at all Phil but you people are so damn squeaky clean. CDs are impractical (almost useless), take up valuable space, collect dust and just have to go... and some stupid little impractical law that stands no chance of ever being enforced in my house is just not worth a second of my thought. I think I'm pretty normal, but compared to you lot I seem to be something of a renegade.

MC

I don't see it as a moral or enforcement issue but rather a practical one. Under the current state of play, the creation of new recorded music is not a financially viable activity. That's why so many fewer new recordings are being produced these days.

The recorded music business will continue to wilt, and perhaps die, unless the problem is solved. It would be great if everyone who likes recorded music would obtain what they want through normal commercial channels and avoid facilitating others not doing likewise. Don't assume the solution is someone else's concern.

ModelCitizen
2010-07-16, 22:54
I don't see it as a moral or enforcement issue but rather a practical one. Under the current state of play, the creation of new recorded music is not a financially viable activity. That's why so many fewer new recordings are being produced these days.

The recorded music business will continue to wilt, and perhaps die, unless the problem is solved. It would be great if everyone who likes recorded music would obtain what they want through normal commercial channels and avoid facilitating others not doing likewise. Don't assume the solution is someone else's concern.
So you are suggesting that CDs should not be passed on? My CDs would become landfill as soon as have ripped them then. As someone who hates waste I am much less happy with this solution than I am with passing them on!

I cannot agree with your sentiments about the dwindling amount of recorded music. There's absolutely massess around, and more every second of every day...... hardly any produced on that wasteful and inefficient medium ultimately destined for landfill, the CD though. Maybe you're just not looking in the right place.

Phil. I've always wondered why someone with a responsible IT job in the banking sector used their real name on forums such as these.

Goodsounds
2010-07-18, 10:35
So you are suggesting that CDs should not be passed on? My CDs would become landfill as soon as have ripped them then. As someone who hates waste I am much less happy with this solution than I am with passing them on!

I cannot agree with your sentiments about the dwindling amount of recorded music. There's absolutely massess around, and more every second of every day...... hardly any produced on that wasteful and inefficient medium ultimately destined for landfill, the CD though. Maybe you're just not looking in the right place.

If you're concerned with waste, buy downloads.

You don't need to agree with my comments about declining music output and financial issues for performers and production companies. It's not my opinion, check out your favorite news source or have a conversation with any performing musician. Any one will tell you the same story, there's little or no money to be made producing albums. Even for those who self-produce and distribute.

If you're happy with your own smug rationalization, fine. Your logic doesn't work for me. If you're a music fan, as I said before, it's wrong to assume that the problem is someone else's concern.

TiredLegs
2010-07-21, 12:13
My ~1000 CDs are still in the jewel cases on shelves (2 bookcase-style units, one for Classical, and the other for Rock/Jazz/Misc). With three Squeezeboxes in use for several years, my home CD players have long been retired, except for one compact unit I hang onto for "emergency" situations, like when I'm doing maintenance on my Squeezebox Server.

Until a few months ago, the only place I had been using the physical discs was in my year 2000 car, which had a 6-disc changer but no reasonable way to get decent sound quality from an MP3 player. Then I bought a new 2010 Mazda and installed an optional iPod dock connector interface with full control from the stereo head unit and steering wheel buttons (not just an Aux input jack). All the FLAC files for the Squeezebox are now duped as VBR 240kbps MP3 files for the iPod, and my CDs are soon destined to become dust collectors. They'll probably stay on the shelves until the next time I move homes, at which point, I will switch to an archival storage solution like the sleeves mentioned in this thread.

Of course, a few of the box sets (Miles Davis, The Beatles, etc.) will remain intact and on hand for display and reference purposes.

By the way, I have to say that the Miles Davis Complete Columbia Album Collection is itself a model of compact storage: 71 discs with full (but small) artwork in a 9-inch long box. The sleeve approach would barely take up less space.

scoob101
2010-07-29, 03:57
My CD`s will need to go up into the loft soon, as my daughter starts to get big enough to consider destroying them!!

I note the "why not just ditch them/sell them/give them away" discussion.

Notwitstanding the copyright infringement issues - Here`s why I won`t.

I`ve had 3 instances now where I have had to re-rip CD`s because the (lossless) tracks won`t play at all, or are garbled. Backups tend to be useless in this situation, because the backups contain the same corruptions. So - the original media is still required in some rare cases.

I`m sure many think this is not an issue, but it was for me, so I will keep them handy.

Just my 2p

TheLastMan
2010-07-29, 11:36
I noticed someone mentioned the JewelSleeve approach earlier.

I used something similar from www.jazzloft.com with great success.

I'm pretty sure I looked into JewelSleeve at the time and am guessing it was the cost that decided it. The sleeves from Jazz Loft are 15 cents, or 7.50 USD for 50, whereas they are 24 USD from JewelSleeve. I don't know if there is any technical difference between them but the Jazz Loft ones are good enough for me.

BTW, the sleeves don't look like much in their unfilled form but once the CD and inserts are in they seem a bit more substantial - it becomes a bit like a mini gatefold LP. The main disadvantage of them is that you can't easily read the spine. This isn't much of a problem for me as I have enough CDs that are in non-standard boxes etc., interspersed with the sleeved ones, that I can quickly get to the right ballpark if I need to (which is rare in any case these days).
Thanks for the tip. The sales pitch on their site convinced me to break out my wallet (pocket book!).

Currently about 300 CDs are in ten Leitz Vaultz Snap-N-Store boxes (http://www.punch-e.com/StoreFront/evolution_product.html?Product=Leitz-Vaultz-CD-Storage-Box-Black-60640095&idProduct=16553) with the rest on a shelf still in their jewel cases.

I was going to buy some more of these, as I have decided to archive the rest. However, you can only get 30 in a box meaning I would need to buy another 10 boxes which works out at £48 ($72). Although the net cost including shipping only amounts to 16p a disk, they do take up more room in the loft.

Taking the JazzLoft site at face value, I can buy 600 sleeves for £88 which would be enough to take my whole collection. As they take up a quarter of the space my whole collection would now only take up 5 boxes. That would leave me with 5 empty boxes for future additions. Not to mention the space saved in the loft.

I had thought about whether they would affect the CD disks in any way, but as they are going to be put into the sleeves and probably never taken out again it does not really bother me that the playing side will be facing the paper as there would be no abrasion going on.

In the end this will cost me 18.6p a disk compared to 16p a disk for the storage boxes on their own, but the space saving is worth the extra to me.

Now where is my wallet...?

TiredLegs
2010-07-30, 04:08
I`ve had 3 instances now where I have had to re-rip CD`s because the (lossless) tracks won`t play at all, or are garbled. Backups tend to be useless in this situation, because the backups contain the same corruptions. So - the original media is still required in some rare cases.
If you're using FLAC files as your lossless format, there's a great little utility called FLAC Tester that will automatically read through all your FLACs and check them for corruption. I run it about once a year. I think I've had it find two bad files, which I re-ripped. The nice thing about it is that you don't have to wonder whether your files are OK, and you don't have to wait to try to play one to discover it's bad.

maggior
2010-07-30, 18:34
If you're using FLAC files as your lossless format, there's a great little utility called FLAC Tester that will automatically read through all your FLACs and check them for corruption. I run it about once a year. I think I've had it find two bad files, which I re-ripped. The nice thing about it is that you don't have to wonder whether your files are OK, and you don't have to wait to try to play one to discover it's bad.

Yes, or you can use the flac executable itself with the -t option, which stands for test. With a small amount of scripting with something like perl, you can test you entire library and log the results. I have done this myself.

TiredLegs, if you are referring to the same FLAC Tester I've used in the past, it is a Windows only application and doesn't do any logging.

Johnny Squeezebox
2010-07-30, 19:31
On a shelf right above the fireplace. Nothing like throwing some Black Oak Arkansas or Midnight Oil on the fire to warm up a winter's eve.

The vinyl is over to the left--it doesn't burn nearly as well, but the covers go up nicely.

TiredLegs
2010-07-31, 04:13
TiredLegs, if you are referring to the same FLAC Tester I've used in the past, it is a Windows only application and doesn't do any logging.
Flac Tester doesn't write a log file, but it displays everything in its own window and shows a summary of any errors when it's done. If needed, you could just copy and paste the contents into a text file, but I've never had a reason to do that.

garym
2010-07-31, 06:21
Yes, or you can use the flac executable itself with the -t option, which stands for test. With a small amount of scripting with something like perl, you can test you entire library and log the results. I have done this myself.

TiredLegs, if you are referring to the same FLAC Tester I've used in the past, it is a Windows only application and doesn't do any logging.

dbpoweramp users can "convert to" TEST to do this as well.

earwaxer9
2010-08-02, 08:33
I have found that I have rippped and re-ripped my cd's several times over the last few years I have been using my Transporter as my server. The primary reason may be that I'm nuts, but I have experienced different results ripping to various bit rates etc. My advice is keep the CD's. Also, its easier to rip the CD than convert the ripped file if you want to rip to a different format etc.

garym
2010-08-02, 08:52
I have found that I have rippped and re-ripped my cd's several times over the last few years I have been using my Transporter as my server. The primary reason may be that I'm nuts, but I have experienced different results ripping to various bit rates etc. My advice is keep the CD's. Also, its easier to rip the CD than convert the ripped file if you want to rip to a different format etc.

I'm not sure if you're nuts, but you are crazy (insert smiley face here). By different bit rates I assume you are talking about ripping to lossy (e.g., mp3). There is no "different bit rate" issue with LOSSLESS. You can choose different compression levels but these are still lossless. (And if you think a FLAC file ripped at -2 sounds different from one ripped at -8, I'll have to respectively agree that you are nuts.)

Don't you realize that you can rip your CDs to LOSSLESS (e.g., FLAC). Then this LOSSLESS file (with all metadata, album art, etc.) can be converted at any time to ANY other format (lossless or lossy (mp3, etc) with a few clicks of a mouse. How can reripping be easier. I'm trying to picture reripping my 7,000 plus CDs. Oh boy. This said, I do in fact keep all my CDs in jewelsleeves/cabinets as I noted earlier in this thread.

ModelCitizen
2010-08-02, 10:56
Crazy 2. The Transporter is not a server. It is a player.

It is a very high quality player too. As garym says ripping your collection to a lossy format for your Transporter is really, really crazy. It is *the* Logitech player that most reveals the artefacts inherent in the lossy formats.

MC

earwaxer9
2010-08-02, 16:06
Ok, so what I mean is that in terms of the metadata, album art, etc, it is easier to stick the disk in, have dbpoweramp look it up, and go from there. Dbpoweramp converter does not work as smoothly with the metadata etc. I only convert to lossless formats. No mp3. I have found that my Transporter "likes" the 24/96 dbpoweramp conversion more than a straight "native rip". Dont ask me why. Also, dbpoweramp's data base has gotten bigger. It can compare many more disks to its data base for a "accurate" rip designation. I like that. Thats why, when it really matters, I like to go back to the CD itself, assuming it's in pristine condition. Thats just me. Its part of the hobby that I like.

garym
2010-08-02, 16:09
Ok, so what I mean is that in terms of the metadata, album art, etc, it is easier to stick the disk in, have dbpoweramp look it up, and go from there. Dbpoweramp converter does not work as smoothly with the metadata etc. I only convert to lossless formats. No mp3. I have found that my Transporter "likes" the 24/96 dbpoweramp conversion more than a straight "native rip". Dont ask me why. Also, dbpoweramp's data base has gotten bigger. It can compare many more disks to its data base for a "accurate" rip designation. I like that. Thats why, when it really matters, I like to go back to the CD itself, assuming it's in pristine condition. Thats just me. Its part of the hobby that I like.

Ok. that makes a little more sense (well, at least more sense than doing lots of lossy rips...). Not sure why you think dbpa doesn't deal with metadata very well with conversions. I use it and the metadata, including album art, converts perfectly when I create mp3 files from FLAC for portable use. I can point and click and have a new directory of 60,000 mp3 files a day or so later, without any intervention from me.

aubuti
2010-08-02, 21:05
I also prefer converting with dbpa instead of re-ripping. Not only does it convert the metadata fine, but it also includes metadata that dbpa does not do by default, such as ARTISTSORT, or cannot do, such as the various MusicIP tags. That, plus the set-and-forget of batch converting, means that I only re-rip if I find the original rip is corrupt, which hasn't happened yet (knock wood).

themrock
2010-08-03, 01:40
Ripped then secured on 3 ext. Hd,which i stored at home,at work.
Then i sell them, and buy new ones.

EdPell
2010-08-18, 08:52
My final (?) solution to storing my CDs and LPs.

Sleevetown has a triple-walled box designed specifically for LPs. I needed only five which, with shipping, came to about 50 bucks. Their site shows a box holding 90 LPs, but because I wanted to be able to flip through them, I stored about 75 or so to a box.
http://tinyurl.com/yeknnhs

Even though my CDs will be in storage, I still wanted a container that would allow flipping through to view their faces. I decided on simple corrugated shipping boxes from Packaging Price. http://tinyurl.com/2emtuv6

They have about a bazillion different sizes, but I selected the 6"H x 6"W x 24"D. With some slack to allow for flipping, about 55 fit in a box and probably twice that if using slim cases. Because they're 6" high, CDs can be stored spine up. Boxes in this size come in a 25-box bundle.

Whenever I order something online that has a shipping cost greater than the item, I always hit the "I'm Outta Here" button, but in this case, 25 boxes totaled about $25 with shipping. I bit on it.

bhaagensen
2010-08-18, 11:13
I suppose they're put away somewhere - what have you stored them in? Do you often have to access them for one reason or another such as to load your vehicle's CD player?


I've had them on remote storage for a couple of years and I've been happy with that. Though, I would have loved if space allowed to have them properly stored and easily accessible at home. Although most information can be found on the interweb, its just so much nicer to sit with the physical booklet while listening.

MelonMonkey
2010-08-19, 07:32
CDs are currently stored in three large cardboard boxes in the basement. Not having access to a physical object representing an album is a bit of a nostalgic loss. There's something so visceral about browsing through a shelf of disks, like old books.

If I was super adventurous, I'd put together a very handsome shelving unit to hold them all in a room upstairs - with a unique RFID inserted into each jewel case. Then a small RFID reader disguised in a piece of furniture near the stereo (possibly a couple of others embedded in the walls) all wired to the server. Pick up a jewel case and swipe it in front of the reader to start it playing on the Squeezebox in that zone.

lrossouw
2010-08-20, 02:01
If I was super adventurous, I'd put together a very handsome shelving unit to hold them all in a room upstairs - with a unique RFID inserted into each jewel case. Then a small RFID reader disguised in a piece of furniture near the stereo (possibly a couple of others embedded in the walls) all wired to the server. Pick up a jewel case and swipe it in front of the reader to start it playing on the Squeezebox in that zone.

This is a great idea but you don't even need the RFID\reader. Think barcodes & phones. The Android phones can all read barcodes so you can just scan the barcode find the name of the cd and search your library and play. Could be automated by the developers of apps for these phones.

funkstar
2010-08-20, 03:55
This is a great idea but you don't even need the RFID\reader. Think barcodes & phones. The Android phones can all read barcodes so you can just scan the barcode find the name of the cd and search your library and play. Could be automated by the developers of apps for these phones.
While I agree, I do really like the implications of MelonMonkey's idea :)

Take a CD off the shelf and place it on your coffee table, that album starts to play. Take the CD to another room and the stream follows you around the house. Day to day it might be a complete pain in the ass, but it would be an amazing concept to show off if done right :)

lrossouw
2010-08-20, 09:19
While I agree, I do really like the implications of MelonMonkey's idea :)

Take a CD off the shelf and place it on your coffee table, that album starts to play. Take the CD to another room and the stream follows you around the house. Day to day it might be a complete pain in the ass, but it would be an amazing concept to show off if done right :)

Ah actually you're right. The rfid version would be cool too, but it'd be more work. At the moment tagging is tough but it would be nothing compared to the efforts RFID tagging would involve :D

iPhone
2010-08-20, 10:01
CDs are currently stored in three large cardboard boxes in the basement. Not having access to a physical object representing an album is a bit of a nostalgic loss. There's something so visceral about browsing through a shelf of disks, like old books.

If I was super adventurous, I'd put together a very handsome shelving unit to hold them all in a room upstairs - with a unique RFID inserted into each jewel case. Then a small RFID reader disguised in a piece of furniture near the stereo (possibly a couple of others embedded in the walls) all wired to the server. Pick up a jewel case and swipe it in front of the reader to start it playing on the Squeezebox in that zone.

OK, I can understand the nostalgic or sensory loss as I still enjoy the ritual of preparing to play Vinyl. Having said that, the whole idea of the Squeezebox (or any digital media player) is to play digital files relieving us of the need to search or dig through CDs. I have discovered more old favorites since using Squeezebox, then in the last 15 years of playing CDs in a CDP. Also with a Controller, Touch, or iPeng, one can look at album covers. I enjoy iPeng in Portrait mode.

Besides with the number of CDs I have, it was taking longer to find a CD just to play it then I spent listening to music. Plus the time to take it out, put it in the play, take it out, and put it back in place. Sure the RFID only requires me to 'find' it, but I could have already been listening using iPeng.

The money spent on RFID tags and scanners could go toward purchasing more music. Its a novel idea, but if one is going to use a server anyway seems like a lot to go through just to play a CD.

maggior
2010-08-20, 18:12
OK, I can understand the nostalgic or sensory loss as I still enjoy the ritual of preparing to play Vinyl. Having said that, the whole idea of the Squeezebox (or any digital media player) is to play digital files relieving us of the need to search or dig through CDs. I have discovered more old favorites since using Squeezebox, then in the last 15 years of playing CDs in a CDP. Also with a Controller, Touch, or iPeng, one can look at album covers. I enjoy iPeng in Portrait mode.

Besides with the number of CDs I have, it was taking longer to find a CD just to play it then I spent listening to music. Plus the time to take it out, put it in the play, take it out, and put it back in place. Sure the RFID only requires me to 'find' it, but I could have already been listening using iPeng.

The money spent on RFID tags and scanners could go toward purchasing more music. Its a novel idea, but if one is going to use a server anyway seems like a lot to go through just to play a CD.

I'm with iPhone. From a technology geek perspective, it would be really cool, but I don't think it would prove tremendously useful outside of a very select few. I think money and effort could be spent on better things, like developing better tagging schemes, better library database schema, and multiple library support.

Nonreality
2010-08-20, 19:35
So far they are in boxes. I have no idea what I'm going to do with them. Probably save them like my albums and never use them again just to haul around where ever I go. Maybe give them away or trade them in (I know,I know.). How about a link for that flac tester. Sounds like a nice choice or else the way to use the flac files to test instead of just saying it can be done would be appreciated. Thanks in advance if you teach us how to do it my friend.

pski
2010-08-20, 20:38
I'm with iPhone. From a technology geek perspective, it would be really cool, but I don't think it would prove tremendously useful outside of a very select few. I think money and effort could be spent on better things, like developing better tagging schemes, better library database schema, and multiple library support.

"Real" multiple libraries would be good. So far, I'm making do with multiple vortexbox virtual machines...

P

TiredLegs
2010-10-21, 14:16
I've come across another option for removing CDs from their jewel cases. I was looking for something as thin as possible to permanently store the discs and all their associated insert materials as archival backups, with the likelihood that I will never access most of them ever again. (My collection of about 1000 CDs is all digitized for multiple Squeezeboxes and iPods. These days, I might look at a couple of CD inserts a month, and the only CDs I've played in months have been a few brand new ones that I played in my car before I digitized them.)

"Jewel Sleeves" would have been ideal, except for their price of $0.40 apiece, or $400 for 1000 pieces. The JazzLoft.com sleeves are more reasonably priced at $0.15 each, and look like an excellent solution if you still want frequent access to your CDs. But the four layers of 4 mil plastic in the JazzLoft sleeves seemed bulkier than was necessary for my purposes.

Then I discovered the super thin (1-2 mil) mylar plastic resealable sleeves used to protect entire CDs in their jewel cases. Turns out that they're ideal for minimalist storage without the jewel case. Everything fits nicely in these mylar sleeves, including one or two discs, the front booklet, and the rear insert with the flaps folded out flat. They can still go on a shelf with the text on the flaps easily visible just by running your fingers across them. They take up even less space than the JazzLoft sleeves. If you're worried (I'm not) about the CD surface touching the mylar or printed materials, you can always put the discs in super cheap paper sleeves before putting them in the mylar. For mini-LP style cardboard CD covers, the whole thing fits inside the mylar, helping preserve the cardboard from degradation. And the best part is that the mylar sleeves are quite inexpensive. At Sleevetown.com for example, 500 of them sell for $18 (less than $0.04 each) plus shipping. Sleevetown even notes "This sleeve may also be used to store the entire contents of a typical jewel case including back tray card and booklet for perfectly flat storage." (See "Resealable Mylar Single Outer" at http://www.sleevetown.com/plastic-cd-sleeves.shtml).

For me, it seems like the best solution I've encountered thus far. I've experimented with a few I already have around, and I have a large quantity order on the way. If it all works out, I'll be hauling a couple hundred pounds of jewel case plastic to my local recycling collection facility.

jimzak
2010-10-21, 16:35
Check my signature.

My CDs are in the "Media Library".

peterw
2011-01-10, 20:39
Then I discovered the super thin (1-2 mil) mylar plastic resealable sleeves used to protect entire CDs in their jewel cases. ... At Sleevetown.com for example, 500 of them sell for $18 (less than $0.04 each) plus shipping. Sleevetown even notes "This sleeve may also be used to store the entire contents of a typical jewel case including back tray card and booklet for perfectly flat storage." (See "Resealable Mylar Single Outer" at http://www.sleevetown.com/plastic-cd-sleeves.shtml).

For me, it seems like the best solution I've encountered thus far. I've experimented with a few I already have around, and I have a large quantity order on the way. If it all works out, I'll be hauling a couple hundred pounds of jewel case plastic to my local recycling collection facility.

Have you had a chance to try the Sleevetown mylar sleeves out yet? I was just about to order from jazzloft, but I'm intrigued by the mylar option, as I almost never access my CDs, not in the years since I got caught up ripping them for my Squeezeboxes.

TiredLegs
2011-01-11, 04:03
Have you had a chance to try the Sleevetown mylar sleeves out yet? I was just about to order from jazzloft, but I'm intrigued by the mylar option, as I almost never access my CDs, not in the years since I got caught up ripping them for my Squeezeboxes.
Yep, over the past couple of months I've loaded nearly all my CDs into the Sleevetown mylar sleeves. (I keep box sets intact.) The sleeves work perfectly for what I wanted to do. A small number of my CDs (e.g. with special booklets or extra artwork) were too thick to fit into the standard sleeves, so I also bought a pack of different mylar sleeves on eBay that are large enough to hold fatboy double CDs in their cases. Seven shelves worth of CDs now fit in about two and a third shelves.

peterw
2011-01-11, 08:03
Yep, over the past couple of months I've loaded nearly all my CDs into the Sleevetown mylar sleeves. (I keep box sets intact.) The sleeves work perfectly for what I wanted to do. A small number of my CDs (e.g. with special booklets or extra artwork) were too thick to fit into the standard sleeves, so I also bought a pack of different mylar sleeves on eBay that are large enough to hold fatboy double CDs in their cases. Seven shelves worth of CDs now fit in about two and a third shelves.

Great, thank you for the update. Now I just need to see if my wife will accept mylar for her discs or if she'll want the more familiar book-like jazzloft cases. I guess I'll get some Sleevetown for mine & show her... again, thank you for the suggestion & status report!

-Peter

maggior
2011-01-11, 08:47
Check my signature.

My CDs are in the "Media Library".

Jimzak - that is one impressive CD collection, wow!

cats_five
2011-01-11, 09:28
J Do you often have to access them for one reason or another such as to load your vehicle's CD player?

I have never, ever had original CDs in the car. At one time I had a car with a CD changer which I loaded with copies, that was great though I found some kinds of music didn't work well in the car. Now I have a tiny MP3 player I can plug into the car's sound system and play stuff from if what's on the radio is dull or the reception has gone - there is a dead patch (for radio 3, radio 4 and classic FM at least) on the M6 south of the Tebay services, sometimes it's bad all the way down to the A65 junction.

TiredLegs
2011-01-12, 06:03
Great, thank you for the update. Now I just need to see if my wife will accept mylar for her discs or if she'll want the more familiar book-like jazzloft cases. I guess I'll get some Sleevetown for mine & show her... again, thank you for the suggestion & status report!
The mylar sleeves are perfect for storing CDs, but I'm not sure I would recommend them if your wife would be accessing the discs inside them every time she wants to listen to music. It's definitely not as easy as jewel cases to get the discs in and out of them, and it's not as easy to just browse the titles on a shelf. I think the Jazzloft cases would be better in those respects. If price were no object, I would have bought the Jazzloft ones, but the mylar sleeves are so much less money.

TheLastMan
2011-01-12, 07:40
The mylar sleeves are perfect for storing CDs, but I'm not sure I would recommend them if your wife would be accessing the discs inside them every time she wants to listen to music. It's definitely not as easy as jewel cases to get the discs in and out of them, and it's not as easy to just browse the titles on a shelf. I think the Jazzloft cases would be better in those respects. If price were no object, I would have bought the Jazzloft ones, but the mylar sleeves are so much less money.
The Jazzloft sleeves are brilliant, cannot recommend them too highly. Well worth the cost of importing them from US. I access them mainly to refer to the CD booklets.

To me the main problem with digital music is the lack of sleeve notes and lyrics. If the record companies are as short of cash as they say they are, they could sell PDF copies of the CD booklets. If they were cheap enough they would sell lots and people would probably not bother to "pirate" them.

ralphpnj
2011-02-06, 08:38
I know that I'm a little late to the party but better late than never.

I just finished putting all of my CDs (the one's originally in plastic jewel cases) into polyethylene plastic sleeves with flaps. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UHEFX6/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=) The sleeves are fairly well made and the price was right at about 3.3 cents (US) each. I needed just under 3,000 (2,850) sleeves.

What I did was place the CD and the booklet together into one sleeve, with or without the tray insert (the piece of paper that is located below the plastic CD holder). All CDs were inserted with the label side facing the plastic and the data side resting against the paper booklet. If the tray insert contained information that was not in the booklet then I removed the insert, folded it in half and placed in the sleeve. For double CDs sets I placed the booklet and both CDs along with the folded tray insert between the CDs. For three and four CD sets I used two sleeves. All boxed sets not in plastic cases and all CDs in cardboard "digipak" cases where left in the original cases.

I then placed all the CDs (the ones on in plastic sleeves, the ones in cardboard cases and the smaller box sets) back onto storage racks. As stated by Zoltan in the quote below, while it is not possible to read the spine of the CDs in the plastic sleeves I can still find the approximate location of any CD by reading the spines of the cardboard cases. When I was all finished I managed to fit my entire collection of over 3,000 CDs onto three racks which originally held approximately 1,100 CDs.

I now have relatively easy access to any CD should I care to read the booklet or have a need to re-rip the CD. I also now have room for more book cases. Now if I could convince my wife to get an ebook reader and get rid of the print books :)


I noticed someone mentioned the JewelSleeve approach earlier.

I used something similar from www.jazzloft.com with great success.

I'm pretty sure I looked into JewelSleeve at the time and am guessing it was the cost that decided it. The sleeves from Jazz Loft are 15 cents, or 7.50 USD for 50, whereas they are 24 USD from JewelSleeve. I don't know if there is any technical difference between them but the Jazz Loft ones are good enough for me.

BTW, the sleeves don't look like much in their unfilled form but once the CD and inserts are in they seem a bit more substantial - it becomes a bit like a mini gatefold LP. The main disadvantage of them is that you can't easily read the spine. This isn't much of a problem for me as I have enough CDs that are in non-standard boxes etc., interspersed with the sleeved ones, that I can quickly get to the right ballpark if I need to (which is rare in any case these days).

jimzak
2011-02-07, 05:08
Check my signature.

My CDs are in the "Media Library".

I started the LONG transition to poly bags for all my CDs in jewel cases yesterday. The space to store CDs in jewel cases drops to 25% of what it was when I use these 2 pocket bags:

http://www.bagsunlimited.com/p-3301-double-pocket-cd-sleeve-with-white-poly-separator-1-resealable-flap.aspx

[for some reason Bags Unlimited website is very unreliable]

I should be able to reclaim a lot of space as I continue to rip everything into my music server.

ralphpnj
2011-02-07, 06:50
I started the LONG transition to poly bags for all my CDs in jewel cases yesterday. The space to store CDs in jewel cases drops to 25% of what it was when I use these 2 pocket bags:

http://www.bagsunlimited.com/p-3301-double-pocket-cd-sleeve-with-white-poly-separator-1-resealable-flap.aspx

[for some reason Bags Unlimited website is very unreliable]

I should be able to reclaim a lot of space as I continue to rip everything into my music server.

Quick question: what are you planning to do with the empty jewel cases?

I filled up at least 25 grocery bags with the empty jewel cases and placed them out with the household trash. Luckily the garbage collection service in my town did not seem to object and happily took them all away.

Please keep us posted on your progress. I'm looking forward to seeing the before and after pictures.

maggior
2011-02-07, 07:35
Now if I could convince my wife to get an ebook reader and get rid of the print books :)

My wife wishes I would do this since I got a Kindle for Christmas. The problem is that there are a significant number of books that I have that are not available in eBook format. It reminds me of when CDs first came out - remember that period in the late 80's/early 90's where you anxiously anticipated albums becoming available on CD for the first time?

This is off topic, but I love reading on my Kindle. I may never buy a print book again (for novels at least). It's to books what the Squeezebox is to music.

ralphpnj
2011-02-07, 08:05
My wife wishes I would do this since I got a Kindle for Christmas. The problem is that there are a significant number of books that I have that are not available in eBook format. It reminds me of when CDs first came out - remember that period in the late 80's/early 90's where you anxiously anticipated albums becoming available on CD for the first time?

Actually in the early days of CDs I took a completely different approach. I went out and bought myself a very nice turntable (a used Linn LP12) and while all my friends were busy replacing their vinyl collections with little silver discs I only bought CDs of new material. The LPs sounded great then and still sound great today. The funny thing is with the advent of streaming music and digital downloads the days of the CD are clearly numbered and yet there is no replacement for good old vinyl. In other words, long after CDs are replaced by digital files vinyl will live on.

By the same token ebooks may well replace the novel but may never replace those large format glossy photo books aka "coffee table" books.

TheLastMan
2011-02-08, 02:57
Actually in the early days of CDs I took a completely different approach. I went out and bought myself a very nice turntable (a used Linn LP12) and while all my friends were busy replacing their vinyl collections with little silver discs I only bought CDs of new material.
Me too!

In the mid 1990's the record shops were selling off the last of their LP stock. I remember picking up 10 LPs from HMV, all ones I actually wanted, for £1.50 each. The same thing seems to be happening now with CDs. I just picked up three U2 CDs (October, Pop and How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb) from a clearance sale at HMV in Oxford Street at £3 each. Their CD stock is thinning out alarmingly - I have had difficulty buying a lot of back-catalogue items recently and taken to e-bay to find those older recordings.

The LPs sounded great then and still sound great today.You should try recording some of them onto digital files. You get the best of both worlds then. I have recorded 300 LPs to FLAC so far, about half of my collection, many of which are not available either on CD or digital.

The funny thing is with the advent of streaming music and digital downloads the days of the CD are clearly numbered and yet there is no replacement for good old vinyl. In other words, long after CDs are replaced by digital files vinyl will live on.
I am not sure what you are getting at here. CD replaced LP, yet there are still many of us stalwarts out here enjoying our LP collections. I am sure that when CD finally gets replaced by digital files there will be plenty of old fogies out there enjoying their CD collection in the same way as I enjoy my LP collection. LPs were the recording medium of my youth so I have a nostalgia for slipping the LP from its sleeve and dropping the needle in the groove - hearing that crackly lead in give way to music. I am sure many of those brought up with CD will get the same kick from flipping the disk out of its jewel case and watching the disk tray slide home.


By the same token ebooks may well replace the novel but may never replace those large format glossy photo books aka "coffee table" books.
You are right, but I think books generally are more of a technological challenge than LPs and CDs. CDs only have music on them (in most cases) so you can fit any music into a digital file. However books come in all shapes and sizes and often contain a complex mixture of text, photos and graphics. I think the novel translates neatly to the Kindle, but a travel guide? Or a medical text book? Graphic novel? Pop-up children's book? Try putting "Where's Wally" on a Kindle!

One day we may get fold-out reading devices up to A3 size with full colour reflective screens with a true white background that can do 600dpi photos or line art with no backlight and with a 2 week battery life (don't hold your breath!). But until then there is little threat to a large proportion of books.

TiredLegs
2011-02-08, 05:06
Quick question: what are you planning to do with the empty jewel cases?
Offer them for free on Craig's List or FreeCycle.org. Some local musician or student might want them for whatever reason.

TheLastMan
2011-02-09, 05:57
Quick question: what are you planning to do with the empty jewel cases?
Kept about 20 and threw the rest (300+) in the trash (about 1/4 were chipped or damaged anyway). I checked with the waste authority and they cannot recycle them because they are "the wrong kind of plastic" (shame!). and they are only about 30p each so you would have to be pretty poor not to be able to afford to buy them new. Even the intact ones looked pretty tatty unless absolutely brand new.

toby10
2011-02-09, 09:21
Another idea for those unwanted CD cases, ask your local library if they might like them.
Library CD's and their cases get pretty beat up as they are checked out, moved, returned, etc.. over and over.
I blame those d*#n kids! (even though I sat on a library CD myself in the library parking lot, but that's besides the point!)

carib
2011-02-09, 12:48
I started the LONG transition to poly bags for all my CDs in jewel cases yesterday. The space to store CDs in jewel cases drops to 25% of what it was when I use these 2 pocket bags:

http://www.bagsunlimited.com/p-3301-double-pocket-cd-sleeve-with-white-poly-separator-1-resealable-flap.aspx

[for some reason Bags Unlimited website is very unreliable]

I should be able to reclaim a lot of space as I continue to rip everything into my music server.

Just out of curiosity... do you have an estimated time of completion?

jimzak
2011-02-10, 04:46
Just out of curiosity... do you have an estimated time of completion?

No idea. I'm going to rip to FLAC as I change over to bags.

Likely it will take 3-5 years as I also work 60+ hours per week to pay for all this stuff :)

carib
2011-02-10, 05:13
Best of luck Jimzak and Happy Ripping...but, wow, 60+ workweek leaves little time to enjoy all those goodies. I bet you have music with you most of the time anyway.

Archer_11
2011-02-11, 02:01
I'd probably stop buying them altogether if FLAC was offered as a purchasable option.

When is that going to happen, I mean seriously mr. music industry, it's way overdue.

aubuti
2011-02-11, 06:17
When is that going to happen, I mean seriously mr. music industry, it's way overdue.
It is happening already. But it's a pretty small part of the market, and not the big labels. I bet it will remain that way for some time because most buyers are happy with lossy AAC and MP3. And the labels will follow the money.

Many small online sellers distribute both lossy and lossless, and charge a premium for lossless. There's no reason the big guys can't do that, but it seems they just can't be bothered to offer lossless because the extra $$ isn't worth the extra hassle to them.

garym
2011-02-11, 06:21
It is happening already. But it's a pretty small part of the market, and not the big labels. I bet it will remain that way for some time because most buyers are happy with lossy AAC and MP3. And the labels will follow the money.

Many small online sellers distribute both lossy and lossless, and charge a premium for lossless. There's no reason the big guys can't do that, but it seems they just can't be bothered to offer lossless because the extra $$ isn't worth the extra hassle to them.

My concern about FLAC or other lossless purchases is understanding the "chain" of creation. I know that mp3 files purchased can have all sorts of differing codecs used (some better than other, VBR, CBR, ABR, as well as differing quality codecs to begin with, LAME vs others), and were these things ripped from a disc or created from some "higher" source? If the FLAC file was created from a disk rip, was it secure? etc. All this is fairly minor in most cases, and I'd be happy if I knew the FLACs were created from the studio masters in a high quality environment. But somehow I'm picturing some minimum wage guy creating the digital files without any regard for normal safeguards.

aubuti
2011-02-11, 06:48
All perfectly valid concerns in my view. Most of my FLAC purchases have been from artists' own sites, where I hope their enlightened self-interest is enough for quality control. Someone selling FLACs (or even lossy codecs) would have an advantage if they could prove the tracks' "pedigree", such as using the checksum or the AR database.

maggior
2011-02-11, 06:53
It is happening already. But it's a pretty small part of the market, and not the big labels. I bet it will remain that way for some time because most buyers are happy with lossy AAC and MP3. And the labels will follow the money.


The irony is that "cd quality" is readily available today on physical media, yet tomorrow "cd quality" in a lossless format will likely become known as an audiophile format with audiophile levels of quality.

I listen to a good amount of electronic music that is on european independent labels. Thankfully much of it is now available in lossless downloads, saving me a lot of money in shipping. I hope this trend continues.

RonM
2011-02-11, 08:00
My wife wishes I would do this since I got a Kindle for Christmas. The problem is that there are a significant number of books that I have that are not available in eBook format. It reminds me of when CDs first came out - remember that period in the late 80's/early 90's where you anxiously anticipated albums becoming available on CD for the first time?

This is off topic, but I love reading on my Kindle. I may never buy a print book again (for novels at least). It's to books what the Squeezebox is to music.

I got a Kobo for Christmas, which is a very nice, albeit limited, device. Unlike the Kindle, supports checking out ebooks from the library (ePub format with Adobe DRM). Good battery life, works very well.

Doesn't really work very well, though, with combination of text and illustrations. Am reading a book now (Life Ascending by Nick Lane, a prize-winning popular science book), and it occasionally refers to an illustration, presumably one incorporated in the text at that point. This is not the case in the ePub format, suspect it's not the case in the Kindle's proprietary format either -- would be in the PDF versions, but then you wouldn't get the text flow options. Nice if they would get that fixed.

On vacation at the moment, and I've been reading quite voraciously. The Kobo is great for this, very good resolution, easy to read and weighs almost nothing.

However, I do like a really nice well-produced book. For the innumerable fiction-reads I go through, an eReader makes perfect sense. Less so for situations where the book itself (combination of content and production) is a beautiful work of art.

As to storing my CDs, we have enough space I can store the boxes (and boxes and boxes) in the basement. However, new acquisition CDs (acquired and ripped since I got the SB) have taken over the old space where current CDs cluttered things up. Time for another box or two.

Ron

jimzak
2011-02-13, 08:07
Here's a before and after shot...after is on the top row and before is on the lower row.

http://zzzone.net/photo/2011/future.jpg

I've put about 500 CDs in bags. I have an additional 4000 bags on order. BagsUnlimited is probably very happy with me.

jimzak
2011-03-26, 08:33
I've gotten a couple of thousand done:

http://zzzone.net/files/bags-cases.jpg

exile
2011-03-26, 09:41
call me crazy, but i got rid of my cd's as soon as they were all ripped. The last thing i want around the house is a giant pile of cd's.

also, I haven't purchased a cd for two to three years. there just isn't anything more convenient than the world of online music purchases. the sacrifice of course is the lack of lossless quality but I don't listen to my music in a pristine listening room- i listen to it in real world places like my kitchen, living room, car and ipod so pristine sound is a non-issue for me.

my advice-sell off the cd collection to a music store and use the money for something fun.

ralphpnj
2011-03-26, 09:44
I've gotten a couple of thousand done.

Jim, everything looks great so far. Do you find that you're saving a lot of space? When I finished the transfer from jewel cases to plastic sleeves I found that the CDs in the plastic sleeves took up much less space. I would estimate that the shelf/rack space for my entire CD collection, which includes CDs in plastic sleeves, in cardboard "digipacks", other nonstandard cases and boxed sets, now takes between 1/2 and 1/3 of what it used to take.

jimzak
2011-03-26, 11:23
As I mentioned above, the ratio of a jewel case space taken to that taken by a bag+disc+insert is about 4:1.

As a result I have reclaimed vast amounts of space. VAST.

jimzak
2011-09-11, 09:59
The transition from jewel cases is 90% complete.

http://zzzone.net/files/bag1s.jpg (http://zzzone.net/files/bag1.jpg)

http://zzzone.net/files/bag2s.jpg (http://zzzone.net/files/bag2.jpg)

http://zzzone.net/files/bag3s.jpg (http://zzzone.net/files/bag3.jpg)

I have reclaimed VAST areas of storage. And a lucky camper or two has gotten some great deals on thousands of slightly used jewel cases.

Win - win :)

ralphpnj
2011-09-11, 10:10
The transition from jewel cases is 90% complete.

I have reclaimed VAST areas of storage. And a lucky camper or two has gotten some great deals on thousands of slightly used jewel cases.

Win - win :)

By the looks of the photos it would appear that these are "before" pictures, or at least "work in progress" photos. Could you please post some "after" photos as well. Thanks!

jimzak
2011-09-11, 12:24
By the looks of the photos it would appear that these are "before" pictures, or at least "work in progress" photos. Could you please post some "after" photos as well. Thanks!

These pictures ARE AFTER the bagging process. Notice the empty shelves and shelves with bags.

The before picture is located in my signature.

The CDs that have not been bagged are in digipacks or other forms of unique packaging.

ralphpnj
2011-09-11, 12:50
These pictures ARE AFTER the bagging process. Notice the empty shelves and shelves with bags.

The before picture is located in my signature.

The CDs that have not been bagged are in digipacks or other forms of unique packaging.

Got it however due the small picture size it's a little difficult to make things out clearly.

jimzak
2011-09-11, 12:57
Got it however due the small picture size it's a little difficult to make things out clearly.

Did you click on the pictures to see the larger versions?

:)

ralphpnj
2011-09-11, 14:03
Did you click on the pictures to see the larger versions?

:)

Oops! That's much better and now I fully understand. Great job. Although I have a quite a bit less CDs than you (just under 3k) after I finished replacing the jewel cases with thin plastic sleeves I still managed to reclaim plenty of shelf space. It's a big job but one that offers ample rewards at the finish.

zowie
2012-03-14, 14:19
My concern about FLAC or other lossless purchases is understanding the "chain" of creation. I know that mp3 files purchased can have all sorts of differing codecs used (some better than other, VBR, CBR, ABR, as well as differing quality codecs to begin with, LAME vs others), and were these things ripped from a disc or created from some "higher" source? If the FLAC file was created from a disk rip, was it secure? etc. All this is fairly minor in most cases, and I'd be happy if I knew the FLACs were created from the studio masters in a high quality environment. But somehow I'm picturing some minimum wage guy creating the digital files without any regard for normal safeguards.

As long as you can preview and hear if the quality is acceptable, you've got all you need to purchase. And in fact more than you get with cds or vinyl.

zowie
2012-03-14, 14:25
Actually in the early days of CDs I took a completely different approach. I went out and bought myself a very nice turntable (a used Linn LP12) and while all my friends were busy replacing their vinyl collections with little silver discs I only bought CDs of new material. The LPs sounded great then and still sound great today. The funny thing is with the advent of streaming music and digital downloads the days of the CD are clearly numbered and yet there is no replacement for good old vinyl. In other words, long after CDs are replaced by digital files vinyl will live on.



Me too! I added tremendously to my vinyl collection at very low cost in the early 90s.

Now I am doing the same with CDs, een if I'm going to rip them and store them away, because I am getting full albums on CD for less than the price of a single mp3 track.

zowie
2012-03-14, 14:33
The Jazzloft sleeves are brilliant, cannot recommend them too highly. Well worth the cost of importing them from US. I access them mainly to refer to the CD booklets.

To me the main problem with digital music is the lack of sleeve notes and lyrics. If the record companies are as short of cash as they say they are, they could sell PDF copies of the CD booklets. If they were cheap enough they would sell lots and people would probably not bother to "pirate" them.

I'm satisfied to put most of my cds away in the attic in their jewel cases after they've been ripped. That saves even more living space than bagging them. (More accurately, creates more space for vinyl.) Plus, (a) I don't think most bags fit in my racks and (b) almost none of the bags hold the back card.

But I'm not sure that I want to be without the inserts, especially for box sets with deluxe books. And I'm also not sure I want to separate the cds from their inserts because of the difficulty of reuniting them.

This is presently a conundrum. Thoughts?

TheLastMan
2012-03-15, 02:32
I'm satisfied to put most of my cds away in the attic in their jewel cases after they've been ripped. That saves even more living space than bagging them. (More accurately, creates more space for vinyl.) Plus, (a) I don't think most bags fit in my racks and (b) almost none of the bags hold the back card.

But I'm not sure that I want to be without the inserts, especially for box sets with deluxe books. And I'm also not sure I want to separate the cds from their inserts because of the difficulty of reuniting them.

This is presently a conundrum. Thoughts?

I put my cds in the attic in their Jazz Loft sleeves (in boxes), which saves space in the loft as well as the racks. On your other questions:

a) The Jazz Loft sleeves take up less room than a standard CD case so will fit in your racks. What is more the "spine" piece of the back card with the CD title information shows when in a rack in the same way as with a CD jewel case, so you can read what the CD is without pulling the sleeve out of the rack.

b) The Jazz Loft sleeves are a gate-fold design so take the back card and CD in the right half and the insert in the left. The only thing discarded is the plastic case.

For deluxe box sets with books I just keep the CDs in their original packaging. I only use the Jazz Loft sleeves to replace standard CD jewel cases.

I would not separate the CD from its insert either so leave both together in the loft. I find myself referring to the web when I need information on a recording these days. Usually a lot more informative than the sleeve notes.

[EDIT] Product web page: http://www.jazzloft.com/p-34281-space-saving-cd-sleeves.aspx

garym
2012-03-15, 05:32
I put my cds in the attic in their Jazz Loft sleeves (in boxes), which saves space in the loft as well as the racks. On your other questions:

a) The Jazz Loft sleeves take up less room than a standard CD case so will fit in your racks. What is more the "spine" piece of the back card with the CD title information shows when in a rack in the same way as with a CD jewel case, so you can read what the CD is without pulling the sleeve out of the rack.

b) The Jazz Loft sleeves are a gate-fold design so take the back card and CD in the right half and the insert in the left. The only thing discarded is the plastic case.

For deluxe box sets with books I just keep the CDs in their original packaging. I only use the Jazz Loft sleeves to replace standard CD jewel cases.

I would not separate the CD from its insert either so leave both together in the loft. I find myself referring to the web when I need information on a recording these days. Usually a lot more informative than the sleeve notes.

[EDIT] Product web page: http://www.jazzloft.com/p-34281-space-saving-cd-sleeves.aspx

similarly, I use "jewel sleeve" cases, and these contain CDs, front and back inserts, booklets, etc. Only thing gone is the plastic jewel case. I have in either special file cabinets or trunks (designed to hold the jewel sleeves) in my home's utility room. This saved LOTS of space for me. And frankly, once ripped, booklet read, etc. I never want to see the actual CD again. As mentioned, I can find lots of info about each album on the internet and only rarely have looked back at booklet. Although they are well organized and I certainly can pull them out easily.

mrfantasy
2012-03-15, 06:37
I've been noticing that more and more CDs these days (70%? 80%?) are coming in digipaks instead of jewel boxes. So it makes the Jazzloft sleeves a little less of a slam dunk in terms of shelf space, since I don't get to use them as much for new material (and I can't easily buy FLAC files for most of my music, which is the only real alternative I'll accept).

--Mike

garym
2012-03-15, 06:47
I've been noticing that more and more CDs these days (70%? 80%?) are coming in digipaks instead of jewel boxes. So it makes the Jazzloft sleeves a little less of a slam dunk in terms of shelf space, since I don't get to use them as much for new material (and I can't easily buy FLAC files for most of my music, which is the only real alternative I'll accept).

--Mike

good point. I just stick the entire digipak in my cabinet with the jewel sleeves, but I don't get quite as much space savings.

zowie
2012-03-15, 10:03
a) The Jazz Loft sleeves take up less room than a standard CD case so will fit in your racks. [EDIT] Product web page: http://www.jazzloft.com/p-34281-space-saving-cd-sleeves.aspx

Aren't they a little taller? They look it from the pic. Height clearance is my problem in switching over from jewel cases. I have univenture safety sleeves for my cd-r's and they don't fit.

zowie
2012-03-15, 10:08
For deluxe box sets with books I just keep the CDs in their original packaging. I only use the Jazz Loft sleeves to replace standard CD jewel cases.

[EDIT] Product web page: http://www.jazzloft.com/p-34281-space-saving-cd-sleeves.aspx

The box sets are often the biggest space hogs (volume relative to music). Of course I'll keep the box and all the packaging, but I thought I might keep the books on a shelf in my listening room and put the rest of it - original packaging + cds -- somewhere out of the way.

MrC
2012-03-15, 10:31
Sandwich-sized ziplock bags - much cheaper.

gharris999
2012-03-15, 12:49
I find that they make an excellent snowshoe prop.

MrSinatra
2012-03-15, 13:18
personally, i like the full CD, in its case, stored on the wall.

to me, saying that you are reclaiming that space is like saying its time to throw books away b/c u have them on a kindle.

i like a bookshelf with books on it, and i like cd shelves with CDs on it.

call me old fashioned.

garym
2012-03-15, 13:37
personally, i like the full CD, in its case, stored on the wall.

to me, saying that you are reclaiming that space is like saying its time to throw books away b/c u have them on a kindle.

i like a bookshelf with books on it, and i like cd shelves with CDs on it.

call me old fashioned.

Up to a point I agree with you. Over the years my wife and I have downsized (on purpose) to smaller and smaller houses. My current house is 1/4 the size of our home 25 year ago (tiny house in my town, but would be a decent sized apartment in NYC). And I have, not exactly sure, 10,000 or so CDs. Going to jewel cases saved me a TON of space. And I can still walk into a room, open a cabinet drawer and access the CDs with full inserts quickly. (And notice I would never get rid of the CDs, even if I hope to never NEED to see them again).

TheLastMan
2012-03-16, 03:18
Up to a point I agree with you. Over the years my wife and I have downsized (on purpose) to smaller and smaller houses. My current house is 1/4 the size of our home 25 year ago (tiny house in my town, but would be a decent sized apartment in NYC). And I have, not exactly sure, 10,000 or so CDs. Going to jewel cases saved me a TON of space. And I can still walk into a room, open a cabinet drawer and access the CDs with full inserts quickly. (And notice I would never get rid of the CDs, even if I hope to never NEED to see them again).
I agree, not everybody has room for huge CD racks.

In London houses are rather smaller than in most places in the US. Our last house had a single living room 21'x11', kitchen, two bedrooms and a bathroom, tiny back yard. Not cheap either, a friend has just bought a similar house in the same street for £700,000 ($1,000,000). The small living room was dominated by shelves for CDs, books and LPs making the room seem even smaller and more cluttered.

In our (rather larger) new house, the squeezeboxes have enabled us to do away with CD and LP storage taking up valuable living space. The CDs are still quickly accessible in the small study in the loft if I need them. I have put them into sleeves and then small boxes like these:
http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p623/Oefinell/Leitz.jpg

8 altogether which take up almost no space on our study shelves.

emalvick
2012-03-16, 08:31
I see myself having to go the same route as others here. I like having a wall of CD's, and I currently have the space for them. But the future has children in it, and my living space will get small. Storing them all away will become important.

Unfortunately, the attic option is unrealistic in my climate. Temperatures up there can reach 120F(50C), and I don't want to trust the durability of my CD's in that environment.

The only other gripe I have is that with the change in CD package leaning towards the cardboard direction, I am noticing more and more CD's that are package in non-standard sizes. I like the idea presented in earlier posts with respect to jewel sleeves or the jazzloft solution. Digipack type sets, I'd love to just leave as is; they are already slim. However, what to do when the digipack discs don't fit. I'm not looking for anwers here. It's just a minor complaint I have. They don't fit on my wall shelf as it is.

exile
2012-03-18, 10:31
what's quite surprising about this thread is that it's still going! Rip your library. Backup up the digital library to a second hard drive and sell off the discs. done.

wonder boy
2012-03-18, 10:39
When I first started on the squeezebox journey I ripped to wma lossless before sometime later converting the 300 or so files to FLAC. Something stops me selling the CDS. maybe one day I will rip again to FLAC straight off, this would be though a dull thing to do maybe and a bit OCD in nature?

Mushroom_3
2012-03-18, 10:40
Backup up the digital library to a second hard drive and sell off the discs. done.

There is a body of opinion that says legally you should have physical media of any files you have (and haven't purchased as digital files).

I'm not criticising, just commenting as I am thinking of doing the same.

garym
2012-03-18, 10:56
There is a body of opinion that says legally you should have physical media of any files you have (and haven't purchased as digital files).

I'm not criticising, just commenting as I am thinking of doing the same.

correct, in some jurisdictions, it is illegal to possess the digital copy if you no longer own the CD/Vinyl album. But I don't keep my CDs for that reason. I keep them just because I like having them. I still have the first album I ever owned from the early 1960s. I'm OCD in that way....

Bill Burns
2012-03-18, 11:29
On 3/18/2012 1:56 PM, garym wrote:
> Mushroom_3;696344 Wrote:
>> > There is a body of opinion that says legally you should have physical
>> > media of any files you have (and haven't purchased as digital files).
>> >
>> > I'm not criticising, just commenting as I am thinking of doing the
>> > same.
>
> correct, in some jurisdictions, it is illegal to possess the digital
> copy if you no longer own the CD/Vinyl album. But I don't keep my CDs
> for that reason. I keep them just because I like having them. I still
> have the first album I ever owned from the early 1960s. I'm OCD in that
> way....

Same here. But is it OK to download a pirated rip of an album if you
own the vinyl?

--
Bill

ralphpnj
2012-03-18, 11:45
On 3/18/2012 1:56 PM, garym wrote:
> Mushroom_3;696344 Wrote:
>> > There is a body of opinion that says legally you should have physical
>> > media of any files you have (and haven't purchased as digital files).
>> >
>> > I'm not criticising, just commenting as I am thinking of doing the
>> > same.
>
> correct, in some jurisdictions, it is illegal to possess the digital
> copy if you no longer own the CD/Vinyl album. But I don't keep my CDs
> for that reason. I keep them just because I like having them. I still
> have the first album I ever owned from the early 1960s. I'm OCD in that
> way....

Same here. But is it OK to download a pirated rip of an album if you
own the vinyl?

--
Bill



No you have to buy the LP, 8 track, cassette, CD, remastered CD, 180 gram LP, mp3 download, flac download, hi rez download, DVD-Audio, SACD and each and every format that is, was and will be available. According to the RIAA you NEVER own the music.

garym
2012-03-18, 11:45
On 3/18/2012 1:56 PM, garym wrote:
> Mushroom_3;696344 Wrote:
>> > There is a body of opinion that says legally you should have physical
>> > media of any files you have (and haven't purchased as digital files).
>> >
>> > I'm not criticising, just commenting as I am thinking of doing the
>> > same.
>
> correct, in some jurisdictions, it is illegal to possess the digital
> copy if you no longer own the CD/Vinyl album. But I don't keep my CDs
> for that reason. I keep them just because I like having them. I still
> have the first album I ever owned from the early 1960s. I'm OCD in that
> way....

Same here. But is it OK to download a pirated rip of an album if you
own the vinyl?

--
Bill

I seriously doubt it, but I'm not an attorney.

Recoveryone
2012-03-18, 12:13
The rule of law normally comes into play when you offer the music for sale or use it in a public forum I.E. Youtube and other open forum sites. No one to my knowledge has been track down by the feds or industry for just downloading or having large amount of ripped music, most of the ones that you heard about were also sharing the files on peer to peer (Napster, Limewire...) systems.

ralphpnj
2012-03-18, 12:37
The rule of law normally comes into play when you offer the music for sale or use it in a public forum I.E. Youtube and other open forum sites. No one to my knowledge has been track down by the feds or industry for just downloading or having large amount of ripped music, most of the ones that you heard about were also sharing the files on peer to peer (Napster, Limewire...) systems.

Absolutely correct (at least in USA). While the downloading of copyrighted material without permission or payment is technically illegal it is only for the sharing and uploading of copyrighted material that people are being "tracked down". It is more a matter of limited law enforcement resources (or more correctly the lack of unlimited law enforcement resources) than one of right and wrong that is causing the present situation.

jp73
2012-03-18, 13:40
I gave some to a friend and all the rest to my brother.

Since I can't buy any music in Flac format I download what I want.

First I paid 25 guilders for a LP, than I paid 40 guilders to get that same LP in Cd format and now I just stopped supporting them.

(funny enough downloading music isn't illegal (yet) in this country)

Recoveryone
2012-03-18, 14:38
(funny enough downloading music isn't illegal (yet) in this country)

You may need to qualify that statement. Downloading from a legally approved site, which means you purchased the download. which covers the rules of the industry and Federal/International laws covering the distrubition of recorded media.

zowie
2012-03-18, 18:48
No you have to buy the LP, 8 track, cassette, CD, remastered CD, 180 gram LP, mp3 download, flac download, hi rez download, DVD-Audio, SACD and each and every format that is, was and will be available. According to the RIAA you NEVER own the music.

That's really not the point.

You (whoever) bought the CD for the value of its content, not because you wanted a shiny round ornament. Then you retained the content, while also resellng it to someone else.

It should be pretty obvious that's not ethical.

Bill Burns
2012-03-18, 19:06
On 3/18/2012 9:48 PM, zowie wrote:
> You (whoever) bought the CD for the value of its content, not because
> you wanted a shiny round ornament. Then you retained the content,
> while also resellng it to someone else.
>
> It should be pretty obvious that's not ethical.

Agreed. But what if I owned both the vinyl and the CD, ripped the CD
then sold it, and kept the vinyl?

--
Bill

ralphpnj
2012-03-18, 20:21
On 3/18/2012 9:48 PM, zowie wrote:
> You (whoever) bought the CD for the value of its content, not because
> you wanted a shiny round ornament. Then you retained the content,
> while also resellng it to someone else.
>
> It should be pretty obvious that's not ethical.

Agreed. But what if I owned both the vinyl and the CD, ripped the CD
then sold it, and kept the vinyl?

--
Bill

Nice but let's change things slightly:

But what if I owned both the vinyl and the CD, ripped the vinyl,
then sold the CD but kept the vinyl?

Now I could chose to listen the "vinyl" but played via my Squeezebox.

TheLastMan
2012-03-19, 04:30
Nice but let's change things slightly:

But what if I owned both the vinyl and the CD, ripped the vinyl,
then sold the CD but kept the vinyl?

Now I could chose to listen the "vinyl" but played via my Squeezebox.
That is no different from just buying the CD and then selling it without ever having ripped it, which is perfectly legal.

You don't own the music, you own the carrier. The point of all this legislation is to prevent people from listening to music without royalties going to the record company, musician and their representatives.

In the UK in the past it was technically illegal to make a copy of an LP on cassette tape. However recently it was made legal to rip a CD for personal use on a portable player. This was a concession to the fact that one person is unlikely to want to listen to the CD and MP3 rip simultaneously.

However you are (technically) in breach of this if you have a copy on your portable player AND a copy on a server to be played on a Squeezebox which could be listened to by others while you are listening to the same recording on your iPod somewhere else, and a third person is listening to your original CD in yet another location as well.

Is it legal to own a ripped copy of an album having sold the original carrier? The answer in most jurisdictions is no, this is because you are essentially allowing one recording to be used by two people at the same time and (crucially) in different places with only one of them having paid a royalty.

This is something that could be propagated ad infinitum if each new owner of a CD rips it and sells it on. Theoretically one CD sale, and one royalty payment to the musician, could result in numerous ripped copies of the music.

In practice the "buy CD, rip it, sell CD" strategy is unlikely to lead you to be prosecuted unless you make a business out of it in some way. At best this strategy will just reduce the cost of ownership as few CDs, if any, will be sold at a profit.

To sell a CD you would be paying for:
- ebay listing
- packaging
- postage
In the UK that lot will cost you around £2.50.

The worst is that in order to guarantee a sale you would probably need to significantly under-cut the "market" price, otherwise a recording might not sell and you would need to re-list it at further cost.

You might consider this worthwhile for a rare and expensive recording. But as decent second hand copies of most CDs can be bought for £3-£5 few would find it worth the time and aggravation.

TiredLegs
2012-03-19, 04:54
But is it OK to download a pirated rip of an album if you own the vinyl?
I've been pondering this very question myself. What would make sense to me (although probably not the RIAA) is:

You should be able to legally download a digital version of the same physical version that you already own (and still possess), i.e. a rip of the vinyl if you own the vinyl. You have in fact already paid the performer, the songwriter, etc. for their work. In that scenario, the person who did the rip is merely saving you the time of ripping it yourself.

However, that download would have to be through a method that is NOT peer-to-peer file sharing, because peer-to-peer means that you'd be re-sharing it with others who do not necessarily have any rights to possess the music.

If the version you download is a remaster, i.e. a different master than the one you own, payment for the work of the remastering engineer is the missing piece. As far as I know, remastering engineers do not get paid a royalty per copy, just a flat fee for doing the job. So the loss of revenue for the engineer would be indirect rather than direct, and the record company would be more reluctant to produce and offer remasters in the future.

Mnyb
2012-03-19, 05:04
That is no different from just buying the CD and then selling it without ever having ripped it, which is perfectly legal.

You don't own the music, you own the carrier. The point of all this legislation is to prevent people from listening to music without royalties going to the record company, musician and their representatives.

In the UK in the past it was technically illegal to make a copy of an LP on cassette tape. However recently it was made legal to rip a CD for personal use on a portable player. This was a concession to the fact that one person is unlikely to want to listen to the CD and MP3 rip simultaneously.

However you are (technically) in breach of this if you have a copy on your portable player AND a copy on a server to be played on a Squeezebox which could be listened to by others while you are listening to the same recording on your iPod somewhere else, and a third person is listening to your original CD in yet another location as well.

Is it legal to own a ripped copy of an album having sold the original carrier? The answer in most jurisdictions is no, this is because you are essentially allowing one recording to be used by two people at the same time and (crucially) in different places with only one of them having paid a royalty.

This is something that could be propagated ad infinitum if each new owner of a CD rips it and sells it on. Theoretically one CD sale, and one royalty payment to the musician, could result in numerous ripped copies of the music.

In practice the "buy CD, rip it, sell CD" strategy is unlikely to lead you to be prosecuted unless you make a business out of it in some way. At best this strategy will just reduce the cost of ownership as few CDs, if any, will be sold at a profit.

To sell a CD you would be paying for:
- ebay listing
- packaging
- postage
In the UK that lot will cost you around £2.50.

The worst is that in order to guarantee a sale you would probably need to significantly under-cut the "market" price, otherwise a recording might not sell and you would need to re-list it at further cost.

You might consider this worthwhile for a rare and expensive recording. But as decent second hand copies of most CDs can be bought for £3-£5 few would find it worth the time and aggravation.

it may be worth the time and effort to sell a complete collection , not one disc at the time .

On the other hand your not going to get much . Popular selections are available free online .

Not so popular "old peoples music" :) is often sold whole sale when someone dies and it is often the same old chestnuts from everyone so also low in price.

I sold my complete LP collection I did not get much for it , in hindsight I should have kept it even if I don't use it.

I keep my CD's as collectibles

ralphpnj
2012-03-19, 05:50
...If the version you download is a remaster, i.e. a different master than the one you own, payment for the work of the remastering engineer is the missing piece. As far as I know, remastering engineers do not get paid a royalty per copy, just a flat fee for doing the job. So the loss of revenue for the engineer would be indirect rather than direct, and the record company would be more reluctant to produce and offer remasters in the future.

Perhaps this would be a way to help fight the Loudness War since most remasters these days sound absolutely terrible.

TheLastMan
2012-03-19, 10:34
Not so popular "old peoples music" :) is often sold whole sale when someone dies and it is often the same old chestnuts from everyone so also low in price.Chuckle :D
My old chestnuts (LPs and CDs) are now mostly recorded and stored as FLACs as are my wife's CDs. Having completed that project my wife now wants her LPs in digital format. However she didn't look after her LPs as well as I did mine, to put it mildly!

They are in invariably appalling condition - totally unrecordable. It looks like after using them to eat her dinner off she the cleaned them with sandpaper. So I have no choice but to replace with CDs or downloads.

As they are also "old people's chestnuts" too, I could probably download them all free if I wanted to. However I am a law abiding citizen and will probably just pick them up as second hand CDs where I can.

zowie
2012-03-19, 10:50
Nice but let's change things slightly:

But what if I owned both the vinyl and the CD, ripped the vinyl,
then sold the CD but kept the vinyl?

Now I could chose to listen the "vinyl" but played via my Squeezebox.

That's definitely a closer call. My feeling is no, but it's not as strong a feeling. Because they CD and LP version are not really the same. If you told me you sold the vinyl, or had two copies on CD and sold one, I'd say that's fine. I'm speaking to the ethics of the situation (as I perceive them), not the law.

Mnyb
2012-03-19, 10:51
Chuckle :D
My old chestnuts (LPs and CDs) are now mostly recorded and stored as FLACs as are my wife's CDs. Having completed that project my wife now wants her LPs in digital format. However she didn't look after her LPs as well as I did mine, to put it mildly!

They are in invariably appalling condition - totally unrecordable. It looks like after using them to eat her dinner off she the cleaned them with sandpaper. So I have no choice but to replace with CDs or downloads.

As they are also "old people's chestnuts" too, I could probably download them all free if I wanted to. However I am a law abiding citizen and will probably just pick them up as second hand CDs where I can.

Yea the guy I sold my LP's to had a business on hobby level he had about 10ki of vinyl in his garage (he brother had areal record store somewhere else where it all went eventually ) .

So apparently every one has bette midler "the rose" some rod stewart ABBA (ar least in sweden ) private dancer with Tina Turner and some Swedish stuff that "every one " had .

He basically had a list in his head of 30-40 LP he always find when buying a collection :) .

But this modern times have loosened up what is "old" or hot and who's actually buying it . I mean 20 years ago you could probably guess some ones age within 5 years from looking at 50 of his LP's .

The backlog of recorded music has increased exponentially and music industry is dying they say I have never in my life had so much to choose from

TiredLegs
2012-03-20, 04:43
Perhaps this would be a way to help fight the Loudness War since most remasters these days sound absolutely terrible.
If a remaster doesn't sound any better than an earlier version, there wouldn't be any reason to download it at all.

There's an interesting technical paper about the Loudness War at www.sfxmachine.com/docs/loudnesswar/loudness_war.pdf.

amey01
2012-04-10, 19:19
My concern about FLAC or other lossless purchases is understanding the "chain" of creation. I know that mp3 files purchased can have all sorts of differing codecs used (some better than other, VBR, CBR, ABR, as well as differing quality codecs to begin with, LAME vs others), and were these things ripped from a disc or created from some "higher" source? If the FLAC file was created from a disk rip, was it secure? etc. All this is fairly minor in most cases, and I'd be happy if I knew the FLACs were created from the studio masters in a high quality environment. But somehow I'm picturing some minimum wage guy creating the digital files without any regard for normal safeguards.

Checksum is your friend.......it is very simple to test a download with one of your own CDs, ripped as securely as you please. Checksum both files and see if there are any differences.

aubuti
2012-04-11, 06:24
Checksum is your friend.......it is very simple to test a download with one of your own CDs, ripped as securely as you please. Checksum both files and see if there are any differences.
True, but what's the point? I suspect few people are interested in buying FLAC downloads (or even getting free FLAC downloads) of tracks when they already have a copy of the track that they know to be accurately ripped. In the more common case of downloading tracks that you don't already have, you need something like AccurateRip or another good reason to trust the seller.

garym
2012-04-11, 06:40
True, but what's the point? I suspect few people are interested in buying FLAC downloads (or even getting free FLAC downloads) of tracks when they already have a copy of the track that they know to be accurately ripped. In the more common case of downloading tracks that you don't already have, you need something like AccurateRip or another good reason to trust the seller.

if you have the complete downloaded FLAC album, you can use Foobar2000 to check the accuraterip match after the fact. May require a component, I can't recall if I had to install something. Right click on files, select, utilities, then "verify album with accuraterip".

aubuti
2012-04-11, 06:43
if you have the complete downloaded FLAC album, you can use Foobar2000 to check the accuraterip match after the fact. May require a component, I can't recall if I had to install something. Right click on files, select, utilities, then "verify album with accuraterip".
Nice, I didn't know about that feature. Thanks.

TheLastMan
2012-04-12, 01:55
Aren't they a little taller? They look it from the pic. Height clearance is my problem in switching over from jewel cases. I have univenture safety sleeves for my cd-r's and they don't fit.
Sorry, just noticed you were replying to me!

They are not noticeably taller. If they are it would be at most a couple of millimetres. As height is so critical for you I will measure one tonight compared to a jewel case and repost. You could always e-mail the Jazz Loft - they were very helpful to me when I was organising import to the UK.

bhoar
2013-01-17, 19:34
"Sold" to the used CD store down the block for pennies on the dollar...

:)

Brendan

RonM
2013-01-17, 20:12
My CDs are in storage in my basement, in boxes from Staples. The first batch (digitized when I got my Squeezeboxen) are organized alphabetically be artist, except for the classical ones which are by composer, mostly.

I have since added another complete box of new CDs, organized alphabetically. I am running out of storage space for the most recent CDs, and will shortly be boxing them as well.

R.

(btw, I also archive all my recordings to small portable hard disks, and rotate in and out of a bank's safety deposit box -- including the digital downloads, as well as the ripped files. And have two local backups, which will be dead if a fire takes out my house.)

TiredLegs
2013-01-18, 18:10
(btw, I also archive all my recordings to small portable hard disks, and rotate in and out of a bank's safety deposit box -- including the digital downloads, as well as the ripped files. And have two local backups, which will be dead if a fire takes out my house.)
This is the way to do it. I've lost count of how many portable backup drives I got (5? 6?). At least one is always off site, and another one (encrypted) is stashed in my car. I update a couple of them once a month and rotate 'em around. At some point, I'll get a terabyte of cloud storage and put a copy of everything up there too.

dustinsterk
2013-01-18, 20:58
This is the way to do it. I've lost count of how many portable backup drives I got (5? 6?). At least one is always off site, and another one (encrypted) is stashed in my car. I update a couple of them once a month and rotate 'em around. At some point, I'll get a terabyte of cloud storage and put a copy of everything up there too.

Check out crashplan.com.....$60 a year for unlimited backup/cloud storage.

banned for life
2013-01-20, 15:53
Check out crashplan.com.....$60 a year for unlimited backup/cloud storage.

The problem with the cloud here is that I only have 3Mbs upload. It would take several months for the initial upload..

bfl

pyewackett
2013-01-29, 23:24
This reminds me of my B&O system and what it used to look like. I got it because I wanted music in more than one room and it supports their proprietary multi-room system. It has a built-in radio, and we had a CD player, cassette player, and record player. To it we connected a large reel to reel tape drive and a Sony Megastore (CDs). It was at first all (including the LPs) stored in a large antique walnut wardrobe but then it didn't all fit... We had a lot of 8 track tapes for the car but I don't think we ever connected an 8 track tape reader to the B&O.

Now all of my music is online. Actually, I haven't cleaned and processed all of the LPs, but they have all been read in. I started by connecting a notebook computer to the B&O and its record player, but later switched to a convenient USB record player. Of course it was easier to read in the CDs and that was quickly done.

With the Squeezeboxes, I also have radio SO much better than local stations (for many years I've lived too far from the stations for good reception), podcasts, Pandora, etc etc. All in one very small box. No more records, no more tapes, no more CDs, most of the input devices long gone. And I LOVE my Android as a squeezebox controller!

Judy

bomboloni
2013-01-31, 17:03
If I had a basement or attic, I'd store my CDs in their jewel cases on open shelving, however I live in Manhattan. With real estate at a premium, I need my 2000 CDs to take up as little space as possible in the same cabinet as the stereo. I buy the majority of my music on CDs and I do this for two main reasons; I want to rip them to FLAC, and I want to keep the disc as a backup along with the digital backup. I also like having easy access to the liner notes. The jewel cases get thrown out and I put the CDs in plastic sleeves along with the booklet.

When I took on the project about three years ago, MUJI sold these great 14" storage boxes that would hold up to 400 CDs in sleeves. Unfortunately they have stopped making them, and I have not found anything that works as well. I tried the Snap-n-store boxes but I found that they are a tad too narrow.

14397

cdmackay
2013-01-31, 17:58
The jewel cases get thrown out and I put the CDs in plastic sleeves along with the booklet.


Out of interest, do you save the rear insert from the jewel case, as well as the booklet?

ralphpnj
2013-01-31, 18:10
Out of interest, do you save the rear insert from the jewel case, as well as the booklet?

While the question was not directed to me, I have removed all CDs from their jewel cases and placed the CDs and the booklets into plastic sleeves. I only saved the rear insert when the information on the insert was different from that in the booklet, which I would guess was about 50% of the time.

cdmackay
2013-01-31, 18:19
thanks!

garym
2013-02-01, 05:15
Out of interest, do you save the rear insert from the jewel case, as well as the booklet?

I do save the rear insert as well. I put all in "jewelsleeeves" which are sized perfectly (overpriced but work well and have cabinets that fit perfectly).

http://jewelsleeve.com/

cdmackay
2013-02-01, 10:37
thanks for that...

bomboloni
2013-02-01, 21:38
I save the back insert only when it is the only place that the list of songs appears. It can be extremely frustrating to buy a CD only to open up the booklet and there's no information about what is on the CD.

Pascal Hibon
2013-02-04, 14:47
I still mostly buy CDís because I like to hold the CD in my hand while playing or streaming them and in the mean time browse through the booklet. Another reason why I like to buy CDís is due to the fact that most downloads are either compressed formats or super large high res formats. If CD quality downloads would be more common then I might stop buying CDís.
My CDís are stored in Ikea Benno CD racks. Now I have to admit that my CD collection is not as large (about 1500) as those of some of the posters here so they donít take up that much space. I find them a nice decoration item.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1597/20130204cdkast04a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/20130204cdkast04a.jpg/)

eg1
2013-02-09, 08:21
In my basement on the old ikea towers I used to keep near my CD player in the old days :)