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View Full Version : what about a "touch" oriented skin



pski
2010-06-05, 17:52
(and I don't mean anything apple.)

It seems the only one available is nokia770 and this isn't ideal.

I've had a touch screen HP for a couple of years now and none of the skins provided really have elements that are sized for use on a "regular" screen.

It seems that the availability of the apple browser would mandate a skin that would be easy to use in any touch browser.

P

JJZolx
2010-06-05, 17:58
Have you looked through the available web skins? There's one named "Touch".

pski
2010-06-05, 18:15
Have you looked through the available web skins? There's one named "Touch".

Same as nokia770 so far as I can see.

P

aubuti
2010-06-05, 19:42
Yes, as I understand it the Touch skin and Nokia770 are the same, except the Nokia770 is more hard-coded to that devices screen dimensions.

For a Touch skin like the SB Touch there's SqueezePlay, but like pski says, that isn't really sized for a screen much bigger than the SBT.

pski
2010-06-08, 19:26
Yes, as I understand it the Touch skin and Nokia770 are the same, except the Nokia770 is more hard-coded to that devices screen dimensions.

For a Touch skin like the SB Touch there's SqueezePlay, but like pski says, that isn't really sized for a screen much bigger than the SBT.

If you look at the "Meridian" system and it's cost and consider the tendency for newer systems to the All-in-one touch-screen configuration, I think Logitech could be ahead of the curve with the simple addition of a relatively simple bit of code.

As usual: no charge for the idea. (An evaluation Touch would be greatly appreciated.)

As an aside: many of my audio-oriented friends would also appreciate better "tech specs" on the website with respect to the support of higher-resolution audio playback and even the sophomoric efforts of iTunes in providing "liner notes" is making waves.

Paul

JJZolx
2010-06-08, 19:33
Same as nokia770 so far as I can see.

I looked at them only briefly, but the sizing of album art appears to be quite different when browsing albums.

JJZolx
2010-06-08, 19:43
If you look at the "Meridian" system and it's cost and consider the tendency for newer systems to the All-in-one touch-screen configuration, I think Logitech could be ahead of the curve with the simple addition of a relatively simple bit of code.

Are you talking about developing another web skin? What's that have to do with the design of other audio products?

The trouble with web skins is that they really need to be targeted for a certain sized display. It's especially true when it comes down to smaller devices with limited resolution. For instance, I have a new netbook with a 10.1" 1024 x 600 screen. I use the Default skin, but it's not ideal. When browsing albums I see only two rows of albums, 4 wide, so just 8 covers. A lot of vertical space is wasted in the skin that makes it less than ideal for the 600 pixel tall display.

You can create your own web skins and there's even support for 'inheriting' from an existing skin (do a search in the forums). So you could use either the Nokia or Touch skin as a base and modify it for your HP handheld's screen size. That may or may not require creating resized of graphics, but those skins are relatively simple, so it shouldn't be too hard.

pfarrell
2010-06-08, 19:57
On 06/08/2010 10:43 PM, JJZolx wrote:
> The trouble with web skins is that they really need to be targeted for
> a certain sized display. It's especially true when it comes down to
> smaller devices with limited resolution.

Just wait until the iPhone 4 hits the streets. Its got amazingly fine
resolution. Which means that designs expecting other small screens, will
be teeny tiny on the iPhone 4. Too small to read.

Sometimes limited resolution is good.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

JJZolx
2010-06-08, 20:10
Just wait until the iPhone 4 hits the streets. Its got amazingly fine
resolution. Which means that designs expecting other small screens, will
be teeny tiny on the iPhone 4. Too small to read.

I can't imagine too many people worrying about web skins for the iPhone when there are superior native Squeezebox control apps available for the platform.

pfarrell
2010-06-08, 20:52
On 06/08/2010 11:10 PM, JJZolx wrote:
> pfarrell;553652 Wrote:
>> Just wait until the iPhone 4 hits the streets. Its got amazingly fine
>> resolution. Which means that designs expecting other small screens,
>> will be teeny tiny on the iPhone 4. Too small to read.
>
> I can't imagine too many people worrying about web skins for the iPhone
> when there are superior native Squeezebox control apps available for the
> platform.

You completely missed my point.

UI designs have to be done specifically with the capabilities of the
device in mind. That is what makes Apple's music player, phone, tablet,
etc. so much better than the various personal musicplayers, smart
phones, and tablets that came before them.

Apple did not invent the MP3 player, or the smartphone.

But the Apple "control freak" approach made it better, and makes their
world easier to use.

Designing any application, web page, etc. requires that you consider all
of the characteristics.

That no human alive has eyeballs to make out the detail on the new
iPhone 4 does not matter. What the device requires is a new layout and
design.

Sure, you can just take your old design and make it bigger. But that
gains nothing from the device's abilities.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

JJZolx
2010-06-08, 21:40
On 06/08/2010 10:43 PM, JJZolx wrote:
> The trouble with web skins is that they really need to be targeted for
> a certain sized display. It's especially true when it comes down to
> smaller devices with limited resolution.

Just wait until the iPhone 4 hits the streets. Its got amazingly fine
resolution. Which means that designs expecting other small screens, will
be teeny tiny on the iPhone 4. Too small to read.

Sometimes limited resolution is good.

Ok, now that you've explained the point you were trying to make...

From what I've read, the new iPhone 4G's screen resolution is 960x640(!) vs 480x320. (You really don't think anybody can tell the difference in a display having 4X the pixel density????) I imagine it's a simple feat to scale things by doubling pixels for older apps, do some dithering, and present everything at the same size on screen. I really can't imagine them expecting everyone to completely redesign the thousands of apps available.

pski
2010-06-08, 22:33
I'm talking about a web interface for a real computer that is oriented toward touch operation.

I don't give a ffaard about iPhone. I'd just like to be able to point and shoot on a touch-screen PC.

JJZolx
2010-06-08, 22:42
I'm talking about a web interface for a real computer that is oriented toward touch operation.

I don't give a ffaard about iPhone. I'd just like to be able to point and shoot on a touch-screen PC.

Have you tried simply using one of the available skins and Ctrl+/Ctrl- in your browser to scale everything larger or smaller? I just tried it in Google Chrome and it scales both text and images such as buttons.

pippin
2010-06-09, 00:30
That no human alive has eyeballs to make out the detail on the new
iPhone 4 does not matter. What the device requires is a new layout and
design.


Actually I disagree.
The device is still of the same size and existing designs will just show with lower resolution.
There will be no design changes for iPhone 4, you can't cram more information into the small screen. It's just eye candy.

There's a lot of things that will LOOK better but there will be no UI changes due to the higher resolution.

pski
2010-06-09, 18:26
Have you tried simply using one of the available skins and Ctrl+/Ctrl- in your browser to scale everything larger or smaller? I just tried it in Google Chrome and it scales both text and images such as buttons.

If you zoom enough to select the "across the top" selection letters, you get exactly 4 albums in either "large" or "small" artwork displays.

The issue is not so great when using a PC but try using a large-screen TV at 1080p (and from across the room.) This leads to the desire to use a touch-interface on a more "standard" display.

Also, zoom support is very spotty when using IE (I don't use IE but I have friends that do.)

Additionally, I haven't found any Firefox or Chrome plug-ins (or extensions) that reliably remember zoom based-on web-site despite claims otherwise.

(Thanks to Pat for understanding the issue rather than living in the PDA world..)

p

pippin
2010-06-09, 22:10
(Thanks to Pat for understanding the issue rather than living in the PDA world..)

What's a PDA?

vagskal
2010-06-09, 22:31
What's a PDA?
A Portable Digital Assistant. In the vocabulary of today a "smartphone without the phone", an iPod Touch. Palm Pilot was a popular brand.

pski
2010-06-11, 22:42
?

pski
2010-06-11, 22:43
Have you tried simply using one of the available skins and Ctrl+/Ctrl- in your browser to scale everything larger or smaller? I just tried it in Google Chrome and it scales both text and images such as buttons.

What are your experiences with a touch-screen PC doing the same?

P

aubuti
2010-06-11, 23:56
If you're using Windows, have you tried Moose? It's album cover view may be close to what you want.

JJZolx
2010-06-12, 01:35
So an interface friendly to a touch screen PC has no interest...?

Touch screen PCs are pretty few and far between. And, there's only been one new web skin developed by Logitech over the last several years - the Default skin that you see. And, the whole Squeezebox project appears to be de-emphasized within Logitech. It's extremely unlikely that you'll see anything developed by Logitech for a touch screen PC. Actually, far less than unlikely. There's zero chance of it.

But... most of the web skins have been developed over the years by customers, although not many of them survive today. It's become more common that they're dropped from the installation rather than added. If you were to develop such a skin and were to show some sign that you're willing to support it, then you might get it added to the standard install.

pski
2010-06-14, 18:38
Touch screen PCs are pretty few and far between. And, there's only been one new web skin developed by Logitech over the last several years - the Default skin that you see. And, the whole Squeezebox project appears to be de-emphasized within Logitech. It's extremely unlikely that you'll see anything developed by Logitech for a touch screen PC. Actually, far less than unlikely. There's zero chance of it.

But... most of the web skins have been developed over the years by customers, although not many of them survive today. It's become more common that they're dropped from the installation rather than added. If you were to develop such a skin and were to show some sign that you're willing to support it, then you might get it added to the standard install.

If the money grabbers can sell the SOOLOS and knowing how we later-lifers who need reading glasses don't really want to use zoomed browsers on wall-mounted plasmas, it's hard for me to believe the simple making of a skin is moronic.

That's like saying new Mitsubishi Eclipses didn't shouldn't knock-off the 350z or that Dodge Challengers aren't clones of '72 AMC Javelins.

Do you really think touch-screen PC's won't be prodded by the jesus-pad? HP is already into-it with their all-in-one pc's. Grab, drag, and pinch can only be a matter of time now that the jesus-phone crowd are used to it.

Paul

JJZolx
2010-06-14, 20:53
If the money grabbers can sell the SOOLOS and knowing how we later-lifers who need reading glasses don't really want to use zoomed browsers on wall-mounted plasmas, it's hard for me to believe the simple making of a skin is moronic.

I didn't say it was moronic. I said that there isn't a chance that it will happen. There's a difference. Maybe it's a really great idea for the couple of hundred people who use touchscreen PCs, have Squeezeboxes, and want to control them from those PCs.

erland
2010-06-14, 21:19
If the money grabbers can sell the SOOLOS and knowing how we later-lifers who need reading glasses don't really want to use zoomed browsers on wall-mounted plasmas, it's hard for me to believe the simple making of a skin is moronic.

It's just that Logitech won't do it unless they are sure they will earn some money on it. Remember that Logitech earns its money on the hardware, not the software, so all software features only exists to sell more hardware.

Some third party developer could definitely implement a skin but as Jim says, there isn't much chance that Logitech will do it themselves.

Also, considering that the Squeezebox Touch built-in server doesn't even have a web interface, I suspect there is a larger chance that we will get customized SqueezePlay skins than new web skins.

fphredd
2010-06-16, 09:35
It's just that Logitech won't do it unless they are sure they will earn some money on it. Remember that Logitech earns its money on the hardware, not the software, so all software features only exists to sell more hardware.

Some third party developer could definitely implement a skin but as Jim says, there isn't much chance that Logitech will do it themselves.

Also, considering that the Squeezebox Touch built-in server doesn't even have a web interface, I suspect there is a larger chance that we will get customized SqueezePlay skins than new web skins.

I would gladly 'contribute' to anyone that made a Squeezeplay skin that looks good on a small touchscreen (4.3") at 480x640 or 800x600...