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View Full Version : What else does VortexBox need?



agillis
2010-04-06, 06:03
We are coming up on another release of VortexBox. Please post any other features you think we need to make VortexBox the perfect NAS for SquezeBox.

mr-b
2010-04-06, 11:50
AccurateRip.

OGS
2010-04-06, 13:12
I somehow messed up my Vortexbox installation the other day. Streaming to a SB2 worked, but playback via Vortexbox Player did not. I am familiar with Linux command line after using various distributions for many years, but I am certainly not an expert in any way.

I managed to fix the problem, but during my search for the cause I wished there was a simple way to restore the installation to a "factory default", a script that is run from the system menu in the web interface. I believe an ordinary user would see this as an important "safety switch". When other family members also play music this way it is very embarrassing to have a non-working system and not being able to fix it quickly.

A more advanced wish for me would be to have BrutefirDRC preinstalled and working on Vortexbox with an interface for (basic) operation with the graphic squeezeboxes and VB player

Ron Olsen
2010-04-06, 13:25
AccurateRip.

You really think you can hear an audible difference between a CD ripped using AccurateRip and one ripped using cdparanoia with full error checking? If so, your ears are far more golden than mine...

Also, I don't see any Linux version of AccurateRip on their website.

maggior
2010-04-06, 13:33
I don't think it's about having golden ears, but about having confidence that the rip was accurate. I haven't used CD Paranoia, but I have used AccurateRip with both EAC and dbPowerAmp. AccurateRip compares your rip against a database containing information about other people's rips of the same CD.

Ron Olsen
2010-04-06, 13:45
I don't think it's about having golden ears, but about having confidence that the rip was accurate. I haven't used CD Paranoia, but I have used AccurateRip with both EAC and dbPowerAmp. AccurateRip compares your rip against a database containing information about other people's rips of the same CD.
It doesn't run on Linux...end of story.

JJZolx
2010-04-06, 13:47
I don't think it's about having golden ears, but about having confidence that the rip was accurate. I haven't used CD Paranoia, but I have used AccurateRip with both EAC and dbPowerAmp. AccurateRip compares your rip against a database containing information about other people's rips of the same CD.

Exactly. No difference in individual rip quality, just better overall QA. If something _does_ go wrong, it's another tool that can help you detect the problem. Without AccurteRip, and without ripping logs that can be examined after a rip, you're pretty much flying blind.

AccurateRip has another important use, too, which is best employed by dbpoweramp - it allows you rip first in burst mode, which can be lightning fast. If the AccurateRip results indicate that the rip is good, you're done. If not, then secure mode ripping, where multiple rips of each disk sector are compared, is the fall back and next best thing, but much slower. So it's also a productivity tool that can greatly speed up the ripping of your library. dbpoweramp automates the process and will try burst mode first, then fall back to secure mode if there's no match in the database. With EAC it's a manual process. You can rip first in burst mode, but you have to look at the rip log yourself and then change the drive options and rip the CD a second time in secure mode if necessary. It's still faster than using secure mode all the time.

iPhone
2010-04-06, 13:52
AccurateRip.

AccurateRip is currently only working with Windows or MAC based ripping programs. Vortexbox is Linux based (thank the stars). Also AccurateRip is not a program or advanced ripping program, it is only a means to compare other rips which could in fact be bad rips. The more rips that match the less likely this is and a good match eliminates the need for a second pass to verify the first rip which speeds up ripping.

Other then that, it is not some magical program IE it is a feature. It is also no better or more accurate then any ripper that does multiple passes to make sure of the accuracy of the data that is ripped, it can just be faster if you choose to select that setting.

But of course nobody is stopping anybody from installing Wine and running dBpowerAmp on your Vortexbox server. Also nothing is stopping anybody from using a Mac or Windurs machine to AccurateRip CDs then move the FLAC files over to Vortexbox across the Network.

maggior
2010-04-06, 13:58
It doesn't run on Linux...end of story.

AccurateRip isn't an application (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=AccurateRip). From what I can see, there isn't anything that would prevent a Linux application from using AccurateRip. My quick googling didn't show it to be a licensed API or interface. There are Mac apps that make use of it (Rip and Songbook).

iPhone
2010-04-06, 14:11
AccurateRip isn't an application (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=AccurateRip). From what I can see, there isn't anything that would prevent a Linux application from using AccurateRip. My quick googling didn't show it to be a licensed API or interface. There are Mac apps that make use of it (Rip and Songbook).

Yeah but it is "owned" and licensed/controlled is it not? Somebody has to house, maintain, and pay for the bandwidth. I don't think they are doing it for free. I asked Spoons about this one time and can't find the reply he sent me but he did answer my question.

maggior
2010-04-06, 14:18
Yeah but it is "owned" and licensed/controlled is it not? Somebody has to house, maintain, and pay for the bandwidth. I don't think they are doing it for free. I asked Spoons about this one time and can't find the reply he sent me but he did answer my question.

In my quick poking around, I didn't find any developer information on AccurateRip. I'm curious about what is involved from a licensing and cost standpoint to integrate AccurateRip into an application.

garym
2010-04-06, 14:19
Yeah but it is "owned" and licensed/controlled is it not? Somebody has to house, maintain, and pay for the bandwidth. I don't think they are doing it for free. I asked Spoons about this one time and can't find the reply he sent me but he did answer my question.

info on licensing, etc.

http://www.accuraterip.com/

I recall that Spoon has said there will be an accuraterip2 coming out shortly that deals with multiple pressings and a few other things that improve its use.

maggior
2010-04-06, 14:22
info on licensing, etc.

http://www.accuraterip.com/

I recall that Spoon has said there will be an accuraterip2 coming out shortly that deals with multiple pressings and a few other things that improve its use.

The info at that URL gives you email contacts to request further information.

I've heard that a new version of dbPowerAmp will be coming out that supports multiple pressings.

iPhone
2010-04-06, 14:30
In my quick poking around, I didn't find any developer information on AccurateRip. I'm curious about what is involved from a licensing and cost standpoint to integrate AccurateRip into an application.

From the website: "AccurateRip is implemented and maintained by Illustrate"

If one goes to dBpowerAmp, it is Illustrate. And from that website:
"illustrate are innovators in the field of audio, over the years Illustrate have been the worlds 1st to:

Implement an online ripping accuracy database: AccurateRip, self correction of drive offsets.
Upload m4a audio files to the Apple iPod (on Windows),
Audio Player to offer rating abilities in a Music Collection,
Independent Windows implementation of Apple Lossless encoder, 24 bit Apple Lossless encoder,
Audio Converter to support Windows Media Audio,
PerfectMeta: uses multiple metadata sources simultaneously to self correct errors"

So I don't think just anybody can use it or has access to it. I could be wrong.

bobschneider
2010-04-06, 14:49
I'd like some type of Linux front end like KDE. Maybe there's something like that buried in there for us non experts, but I haven't been able to find it. I'm really happy with my VortexBox overall (purchased from the website), but I had it make MP4 copies of all my flacs, and now that I don't need them any more I can't find a way to delete those files or that directory. I can see it in Windows 7 and in OS X, but when I try to delete it I get a "not authorized" message. And I can't find it in text mode when I hook up a keyboard and monitor to my VoretexBox.

Alternatively, just put an option in the web browser front end to delete MP4 files. There's an option for that for MP3s, but not for MP4s.

pfink
2010-04-06, 14:52
From the website: "AccurateRip is implemented and maintained by Illustrate"

If one goes to dBpowerAmp, it is Illustrate. And from that website:
"illustrate are innovators in the field of audio, over the years Illustrate have been the worlds 1st to:

Implement an online ripping accuracy database: AccurateRip, self correction of drive offsets.
Upload m4a audio files to the Apple iPod (on Windows),
Audio Player to offer rating abilities in a Music Collection,
Independent Windows implementation of Apple Lossless encoder, 24 bit Apple Lossless encoder,
Audio Converter to support Windows Media Audio,
PerfectMeta: uses multiple metadata sources simultaneously to self correct errors"

So I don't think just anybody can use it or has access to it. I could be wrong.

From http://www.accuraterip.com/:

Access rights

Access to AccurateRip is free for non-commercial usage, commercial usage is restricted to prior agreement, email for details (http://www.dbpoweramp.com/email.htm).


More info here:

http://www.accuraterip.com/3rdparty-access.htm

garym
2010-04-06, 14:55
So I don't think just anybody can use it or has access to it. I could be wrong.

True, but at that site, it does say these rippers currently can use accuraterip:

* dBpoweramp,
* Exact Audio Copy
* Rip (Apple MAC),
* XLD (Apple MAC),
* Songbook (Apple MAC)

I suspect the cost of licensing is a function of what the software charges its own users. Keep in mind that I assume that it is in Spoon's (Illustrate) best interest to encourage widespread use as the more users, the more valuable the database (more unique disks and more unique rips of disks)

andynormancx
2010-04-06, 15:10
It is also no better or more accurate then any ripper that does multiple passes to make sure of the accuracy of the data that is ripped, it can just be faster if you choose to select that setting.

That just isn't true. I've come across several disc that would rip with the same error multiple times, with no indication from the drive/drives that there was an error and the end result having an audible click in the file.

Without AccurateRip those bad rips would be lurking in my collection waiting to irritate me. AccurateRip instantly flagged those badly ripped tracks as suspect.

Also AccurateRip can really help when you have a disc right on the limits of rippability. If you have a disc where you get different checksums on subsequent rips, without AR you have to keep ripping until you get the same checksum a decent number of times for each track. With AC, even with these dodgy discs you only need to wait for the first rip for each track that matches AR.

agillis
2010-04-06, 18:38
I'd like some type of Linux front end like KDE. Maybe there's something like that buried in there for us non experts, but I haven't been able to find it. I'm really happy with my VortexBox overall (purchased from the website), but I had it make MP4 copies of all my flacs, and now that I don't need them any more I can't find a way to delete those files or that directory. I can see it in Windows 7 and in OS X, but when I try to delete it I get a "not authorized" message. And I can't find it in text mode when I hook up a keyboard and monitor to my VoretexBox.

Alternatively, just put an option in the web browser front end to delete MP4 files. There's an option for that for MP3s, but not for MP4s.

You need to click on files -> music -> mp4 to delete the files. If you can't figure it out post the the VortexBox forum and we can help you.

agillis
2010-04-06, 18:45
Wow, this thread has gone over an Accuraterip discussion thread.

I think it is possible to use Accuraterip on VortexBox but it would require licensing fees etc. This is probably why it has never been used on Linux software.

cdpandora has been used by very successfully by audiophiles world wide for years with good results. So I'm confident we are using the best available ripping solution for Linux.

That being said if somebody can find me some Accuraterip code that runs nativity on Linux I would be happy to include it.

Lets move on to some other features people want.

bobschneider
2010-04-06, 19:12
You need to click on files -> music -> mp4 to delete the files. If you can't figure it out post the the VortexBox forum and we can help you.

That worked, when I went in on my Mac as an SMB share, and deleted the directory. Thanks!

erland
2010-04-07, 09:33
I'd like AAC mirroring, or is that already supported by changing some configuration file for the ALAC mirroring feature ?

agillis
2010-04-08, 09:43
I'd like AAC mirroring, or is that already supported by changing some configuration file for the ALAC mirroring feature ?

What is the advantage of AAC over ALAC? ALAC is lossless. If you want lossy compression why not use mp3?

Phil Leigh
2010-04-08, 10:05
What is the advantage of AAC over ALAC? ALAC is lossless. If you want lossy compression why not use mp3?

...If you want lossless, why not use FLAC!

avalerio
2010-04-08, 12:31
I'd love an easy way to setup an external usb drive for holding a music library.

erland
2010-04-08, 13:08
What is the advantage of AAC over ALAC? ALAC is lossless. If you want lossy compression why not use mp3?

I'm talking about lossy AAC, my iPod Touch tends to work better with AAC than MP3. At least that was the case earlier when I tried to use mp3. I got problem with some mp3 just being silent when played on the iPod Touch while they work perfectly on a PC or Squeezebox.

Currently I manage the AAC version of my library manually but it would be great to be able to just mirror it from the FLAC version.

agillis
2010-04-08, 16:13
I'm talking about lossy AAC, my iPod Touch tends to work better with AAC than MP3. At least that was the case earlier when I tried to use mp3. I got problem with some mp3 just being silent when played on the iPod Touch while they work perfectly on a PC or Squeezebox.

Currently I manage the AAC version of my library manually but it would be great to be able to just mirror it from the FLAC version.

We already have mp3 mirroring. I don't think we need another lossy compression. Epically since mp3 works great on any player including iPods. I have never had problems playing mp3. They have always worked for me. Try the mp3 mirror thats part of VortexBox. Maybe it can create better mp3s then what your using. We now support embedded cover art in mp3s so even the cover art will work on an iPod.

agillis
2010-04-08, 16:16
I'd love an easy way to setup an external usb drive for holding a music library.

How would this work with SBS? Would you need to drop and rescan your library each time you connected and disconnected your USB drive? Also keep in mind SBS only supports one music folder so the USB drive would have to be mounted under the rest of your library. So you looking at a full rescan of everything.

Just doesn't seem practical.

JJZolx
2010-04-08, 16:59
How would this work with SBS? Would you need to drop and rescan your library each time you connected and disconnected your USB drive? Also keep in mind SBS only supports one music folder so the USB drive would have to be mounted under the rest of your library. So you looking at a full rescan of everything.

Just doesn't seem practical.

I think you misunderstand. Nobody is looking for the ability to swap these drives at will. They simply want to store their library on an external drive, so you'd treat it as if it were permanently attached. SbS doesn't care one way or the other. I'm sure many people are already doing this on Windows, where the drive is assigned a drive letter and doesn't really look any different than an internal drive. Either by designating a folder on the external drive as their music folder, or by placing a shortcut in their music folder.

agillis
2010-04-08, 17:45
I think you misunderstand. Nobody is looking for the ability to swap these drives at will. They simply want to store their library on an external drive, so you'd treat it as if it were permanently attached. SbS doesn't care one way or the other. I'm sure many people are already doing this on Windows, where the drive is assigned a drive letter and doesn't really look any different than an internal drive. Either by designating a folder on the external drive as their music folder, or by placing a shortcut in their music folder.

So would users still want an option to switch back and use the internal hard drive? Also what should happen if the USB drive is disconnected?

It could create a command line script to do this. It's much harder to do in the GUI. Is that good enough?

Also is it OK if the user has to keep all the shared files music, pictures,etc on the USB drive? So you would have an OS internal drive and a storage USB external drive?

Do we need to support more then one USB drive at a time?

pski
2010-04-08, 20:04
So would users still want an option to switch back and use the internal hard drive? Also what should happen if the USB drive is disconnected?

It could create a command line script to do this. It's much harder to do in the GUI. Is that good enough?

Also is it OK if the user has to keep all the shared files music, pictures,etc on the USB drive? So you would have an OS internal drive and a storage USB external drive?

Do we need to support more then one USB drive at a time?

It would not be difficult to implement the winders philosophy: "scan what you can and then play what you can..."

P

agillis
2010-04-08, 20:51
It would not be difficult to implement the winders philosophy: "scan what you can and then play what you can..."

P

How would we do that without changing SBS?

garym
2010-04-09, 03:58
So would users still want an option to switch back and use the internal hard drive? Also what should happen if the USB drive is disconnected?

It could create a command line script to do this. It's much harder to do in the GUI. Is that good enough?

Also is it OK if the user has to keep all the shared files music, pictures,etc on the USB drive? So you would have an OS internal drive and a storage USB external drive?

Do we need to support more then one USB drive at a time?

My preference would be to have it work similar to my windows machine setup. That is, I could have music on the internal 2TB drive, a couple of external 2TB USB drives, etc. but on the local harddrive I would simply have short cuts in a music directory pointing at these various drives. SbS already (on windows at least) can treat all these shortcuts as part of the single music library and scan all these drives and add music. I know you can have a lot of internal drive space, but I need more than 4TB of space for my collection.

avalerio
2010-04-09, 04:59
I think you misunderstand. Nobody is looking for the ability to swap these drives at will. They simply want to store their library on an external drive, so you'd treat it as if it were permanently attached. SbS doesn't care one way or the other. I'm sure many people are already doing this on Windows, where the drive is assigned a drive letter and doesn't really look any different than an internal drive. Either by designating a folder on the external drive as their music folder, or by placing a shortcut in their music folder.

Exactly. For those of us with lower powered machines it makes more sense to attach an external drive so when the eventual hardware upgrade happens the library switch is a no brainer.

agillis
2010-04-09, 07:51
My preference would be to have it work similar to my windows machine setup. That is, I could have music on the internal 2TB drive, a couple of external 2TB USB drives, etc. but on the local harddrive I would simply have short cuts in a music directory pointing at these various drives. SbS already (on windows at least) can treat all these shortcuts as part of the single music library and scan all these drives and add music. I know you can have a lot of internal drive space, but I need more than 4TB of space for my collection.

Creating symbolic links is easy in Linux. If you really need a lot of space we sell a 6TB VortexBox. It uses 2TB drive and RAID.