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dmg
2010-04-02, 17:51
According to the Logitech Web site, the MSRP for the touch is 379.00 CAD. With the Canadian dollar almost at par with the US dollar, this is nothing less than a price gouge. The MSRP in the US is 299.00--almost an $80.00 difference. Under the North America Free Trade Act (NAFTA), there should be no duty imposed on the device when it crosses the border. I don't mind paying a bit extra for currency exchange,, shipping, etc, but there is no way a price differential of almost $80.00 is justified.

Now that the Touch is finally close to being released, I am trying to find a retailer where I can get a fair price. Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to jump through some hoops and try to find a US retailer. I would like to support a retailer based or located in Canada, but it looks like this will not be possible. (It is quite a common occurence that Canadians will pay significantly more for books, cars, and electronics than US citizens, even when the Canadian and US currencies are close.)

I hope Logitech will adjust its Canadian pricing to more accurately reflect actual, rather than imagined or hedged currency rates, before the release of the Touch.

Is the situation similar in other countries?

MG

peterw
2010-04-02, 20:30
It is quite a common occurence that Canadians will pay significantly more for books, cars, and electronics than US citizens

s/Canadians/Americans/
s/books, cars, and electronics/pharmaceuticals and healthcare/
s/US/Canadian/

Let us know if you find a negotiating strategy that works, OK? :-)

Seriously, though, I understand that Logitech sales is broken up into different semi-autonomous regions. It could simply be that Logitech's Canadian sales team thinks SB Touch is underpriced at USD $299. Given how well SB Receivers, Radio accessory kits, and red Radios have sold, as well as the price & features of gear from Sonos and others, bumping the price 25% doesn't seem crazy. Maybe Logitech Canada will lower the price if it sells poorly at CAD $379.

Goodsounds
2010-04-02, 21:37
Haven't you answered your own question?

You say it is quite common for Canadian prices to be "significantly" higher than US prices for the same items. I don't know specifically why, but the possible reasons are numerous. Why would you expect the Touch product would be different than all these other things you cite?

SafaN
2010-04-03, 01:40
for your intrest:

usually prices in europa are the same as the prices in usa, but just the $ changed in a . At the moment we pay 35% more for the same product

Upgradealways
2010-04-03, 05:53
According to the Logitech Web site, the MSRP for the touch is 379.00 CAD. With the Canadian dollar almost at par with the US dollar, this is nothing less than a price gouge. The MSRP in the US is 299.00--almost an $80.00 difference. Under the North America Free Trade Act (NAFTA), there should be no duty imposed on the device when it crosses the border. I don't mind paying a bit extra for currency exchange,, shipping, etc, but there is no way a price differential of almost $80.00 is justified.

Now that the Touch is finally close to being released, I am trying to find a retailer where I can get a fair price. Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to jump through some hoops and try to find a US retailer. I would like to support a retailer based or located in Canada, but it looks like this will not be possible. (It is quite a common occurence that Canadians will pay significantly more for books, cars, and electronics than US citizens, even when the Canadian and US currencies are close.)

I hope Logitech will adjust its Canadian pricing to more accurately reflect actual, rather than imagined or hedged currency rates, before the release of the Touch.

Is the situation similar in other countries?

MG

I buy 95% of my electronic in the US through on line retaillers. I refuse to pay the a 20 to 30% premium and buy local. The encourage local economy thing is plain stupid given the global context. Canadian retaillers just need to adapt if not they diserve bankupty. I know I ll get an economics course from some of you on Fx rate and economy of scale and US versus Canadian population. I dont care I hold my position. I will be buyng the touch online through a US retailler or call logitech directly for overnight shipping.

I sometimes hear the warranty thing, it does not matter if you are not covered, on 5 years buying span, even if a few things break, you saved so much than you can buy new anyway.

I will be buying my next car in the US and have it brokered here. The only thing I really had to buy local was my plasma screen due to manipulation risk and even than....


I will never forget when I bought one of my Panny SA XR57 receiver.

US 199 + 20 overnight shipping
CAD 499 + tax

now lets think about this one for a moment, I can buy 2 and still come cheaper who care about warranty and about buy local + I did not have to interact with an incompetent sales rep.

dmg
2010-04-03, 09:20
Haven't you answered your own question?

You say it is quite common for Canadian prices to be "significantly" higher than US prices for the same items. I don't know specifically why, but the possible reasons are numerous. Why would you expect the Touch product would be different than all these other things you cite?

There are few valid reasons why many products are priced at a much higher rate in Canada than the US. The situation has become absurd in many instances. Take, for example, Bombardier snowmobiles. The last time the Canadian dollar was at par with the US dollar, US retailers were forbidden from selling snowmobiles to Canadisn citizens looking to pay the same lower prices as US consumers at the risk of losing their franchise. The snowmobiles are manufactured in Canada and shipped to the US. That's just one example--there are others where it is possible to demonstrate blatant discrimination.

It is really a matter of corporate ethics and currency hedging. Currencies fluctuate against one another, and manufacturers have a legitimate reason to provide a bit of hedge against these fluctuations in their differential pricing. But, in today's manufacturing world, with its emphasis on short supply lines, just in time delivery, electronic funds transfer, etc., a 25% mark up on the price is discriminatory. The Canadian dollar has been relatively close to the US dollar for some time (much to my pain, since I am often paid in US dollars for the consulting I do), and nothing can really justify this mark up for Canadian consumers.

I will not support local (Canadian) retailers if they cannot offer a comparable price, after I factor in risk and convenience to myself. Again, I do not mind paying a bit more to buy local, but 25% more is too much. I can buy the Touch in the US in US currency, so I do not even need to worry about exchange rates. Others are not so lucky.

MG

iPhone
2010-04-03, 10:03
According to the Logitech Web site, the MSRP for the touch is 379.00 CAD. With the Canadian dollar almost at par with the US dollar, this is nothing less than a price gouge. The MSRP in the US is 299.00--almost an $80.00 difference. Under the North America Free Trade Act (NAFTA), there should be no duty imposed on the device when it crosses the border. I don't mind paying a bit extra for currency exchange,, shipping, etc, but there is no way a price differential of almost $80.00 is justified.

Now that the Touch is finally close to being released, I am trying to find a retailer where I can get a fair price. Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to jump through some hoops and try to find a US retailer. I would like to support a retailer based or located in Canada, but it looks like this will not be possible. (It is quite a common occurence that Canadians will pay significantly more for books, cars, and electronics than US citizens, even when the Canadian and US currencies are close.)

I hope Logitech will adjust its Canadian pricing to more accurately reflect actual, rather than imagined or hedged currency rates, before the release of the Touch.

Is the situation similar in other countries?

MG

Hello and Welcome to the Forum.

I think that you are attempting to put the blame in the wrong place. It is not Logitech, they are going to sell the unit first at what the market will bear (which is called Capitalism IE good business) and the second dynamic is that countries outside the States have requirements that force an artificial price increase above and beyond the US MSRP that is outside the issue of currency value differences. So it is up to the citizens of each country to get the laws changed as to taxes, duties, VAT, and other stupid requirements that make the cost of business higher in those countries through over regulation.

As an example, if a business is forced to warranty a product that they don't even make only sale, above and beyond the manufactures warranty that is going to cause the price to be above the US MSRP.

Teus de Jong
2010-04-04, 00:52
I'm not biting, but over regulation? Were you sleeping under a rock and didn't notice a crisis was going on and didn't you see where it came from?

You could get away with that fairy tale, weren't it the case that the same applies for e.g. software, where these same regulation requirements don't play any role. The only real difference here is the VAT; but even taking that into cosideration, the differences are ridiculous.

Some monthes ago I saw a documentary about American brand products and their pricing over here in Europe. It made one thing very clear: the companies just take a profit where they can get it. And they misuse regulations that were made for totally different purposes to prevent parallel importing.

Teus

Mnyb
2010-04-04, 01:15
Over in Europe Logitech's own store is price leading, they obviously gouge the price and set a rather high bar.

But you can wait a couple of months and the prices from some online retailer would be lover.

Some local small markets simply don't work for niche products, example squeezeboxes are more expensive in sweden than many other European countries.

My SB3 was bought from US when you could do that in the old days.

(In fact the whole point of having local divisions not able to sell across borders is to create artificial borders to gouge prices and create local monopolies.)

My Duet was bougth from UK and imported by me from ripcaster, with shipping the price difference was not that big, but the piont was to avoid the swedsih logitech shop ;) I really don't want to give them money with their price policy.

Boom and radio was found in shops for "ok" prices.

So just don't buy for those prices, google is your friend.

For Swedes shopping electronics from Germany is usually a way to get better prices.

But for the Touch I'm not following my own advice, I have preordered via the logitech shop. I'm to impatient I want one now, sorry for that

bluegaspode
2010-04-04, 02:04
Some monthes ago I saw a documentary about American brand products and their pricing over here in Europe. It made one thing very clear: the companies just take a profit where they can get it. And they misuse regulations that were made for totally different purposes to prevent parallel importing

Actually all this is teached in Business Administration courses (so cannot be wrong? in an economical sense ;) )

It's called price discrimination and a very common pattern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination - see "Third degree price discrimination" and also the explanations below) to increase your income.
If a market segement is willing to pay more for stuff (seems to be the case for Canadians and Europeans) you get a better margin with selling stuff at higher prices and as logitech wasn't built for social welfare I guess this is the way it is ...

dmg
2010-04-09, 08:04
Hello and Welcome to the Forum.

I think that you are attempting to put the blame in the wrong place. It is not Logitech, they are going to sell the unit first at what the market will bear (which is called Capitalism IE good business) and the second dynamic is that countries outside the States have requirements that force an artificial price increase above and beyond the US MSRP that is outside the issue of currency value differences. So it is up to the citizens of each country to get the laws changed as to taxes, duties, VAT, and other stupid requirements that make the cost of business higher in those countries through over regulation.

As an example, if a business is forced to warranty a product that they don't even make only sale, above and beyond the manufactures warranty that is going to cause the price to be above the US MSRP.

Respectfully, I do think I am placing the blame in the correct place. It is Logitech that sets the price. Unfortunately, the local retailers are caught in the middle: retailers do not have the option, in the case of Logitech, to import directly from the US and pass the savings to CDN consumers. They must purchase the units from the CDN distributor and sell for whatever price the distributor/Logitech demands.

Not all manufacturers impose these requirements--recently, I was able to purchase an HDMI switch from a CDN distributor for close to price parity with the US price because the manufacturer allowed the CDN reseller to match the US price in CDN currency, after factoring in the cost of converting from US to CDN currency.

Yes, Canada has regulations that will cause the price of imported goods to be higher. As an example, all software and packaging has to be available in both French and English. This adds some costs to the units. But, I should stress again that there is no duty under NAFTA for the importation of these units. So, while I never expect to see exact price parity when the CDN dollar is at par with the US dollar, I do think that a 25-30% mark up of the price is out of line. A more reasonable markup is somewhere in the 5-15% range.

I realize that prices are often set well in advance of product availability, but the CDN dollar has been close to the US dollar in value for some time. Even given the respective values of the currencies 6-12 months ago, the differential is still discriminatory.

As for capitalism, last time I checked it was somewhat broken, but still functioning. Manufacturers who price their products too high in other countries relative to the US prices will face a backlash from consumers who are tired of subsidizing the low prices the US consumers currently enjoy. Something has to give at some point--either prices will have to come down in other countries to provide closer price parity and/or prices for US consumers will have to rise as a result of a devalued dollar and inflationary pressures.

I do want to buy local if I can and will do so if I feel the differntial mark up in price is fair. In the case of pricing of Logitech units in Canada, the price differential appears to be unfair and discriminatory.

MG.

aubuti
2010-04-09, 08:45
As bluegaspode already pointed out, this is price discrimination in segmented markets, straight out of any first-year undergraduate economics text. Demand for SBs in Canada is apparently more inelastic than in the US because of a host of factors, including size of market, cost of substitutes (considered broadly, including CD players, etc). Retail regulations matter too, but probably not very much in this case. As long as Logitech can segment the market, which they do via their distribution chain, it makes sense for them to charge more in Canada than in the US. That is not "subsidizing" US consumers -- it's charging what the Canadian market, and the US market, will bear. As you pointed out yourself, that is norm for many products in Canada.

Also, I confess to knowing nothing about commercial law in Canada, but I strongly doubt that Logitech distribution can tell Canadian retailers what they must charge for the product. MSRP is one thing, but street price is another. If Canadian retailers have no flexibility to discount prices, that's part of your problem right there.

crazyj
2010-04-14, 13:53
Have you heard that Logitech sold a bunch with a coupon code in the US that brought it down to $225 USD? That makes the $379 CAD even more painful.

Wish I could even order one, as Logitech Canada doesn't seem to be inclined to release any. Why do we always get the back seat to the US. It's the same market, same products, just with a pesky border.

Mnyb
2010-04-14, 14:19
As bluegaspode already pointed out, this is price discrimination in segmented markets, straight out of any first-year undergraduate economics text. Demand for SBs in Canada is apparently more inelastic than in the US because of a host of factors, including size of market, cost of substitutes (considered broadly, including CD players, etc). Retail regulations matter too, but probably not very much in this case. As long as Logitech can segment the market, which they do via their distribution chain, it makes sense for them to charge more in Canada than in the US. That is not "subsidizing" US consumers -- it's charging what the Canadian market, and the US market, will bear. As you pointed out yourself, that is norm for many products in Canada.

Also, I confess to knowing nothing about commercial law in Canada, but I strongly doubt that Logitech distribution can tell Canadian retailers what they must charge for the product. MSRP is one thing, but street price is another. If Canadian retailers have no flexibility to discount prices, that's part of your problem right there.

But to many market segments are artificially created (region codes on DVD & BlueRay anyone that ought to be criminal ? ), wonder when we will see an end to that, some international legislation of some kind ?
WTO, EU and NAFTA tries to make markets more transparent .
(except for when we punish third world countries for trying to sell their agricultural products on a fair market ;) )

But Logitech does not take first price in this sport, I think the all time winner is Krell. They have really ridiculous pricing in Europe and very few companies importing the stuff, markup is close to 100% .

Therefore side importing on used amps from US was very common.
Most of them was made so that you only had to change taps on on the trafo then you where done.

But then Krell invented a 50/60Hz sensing circuit :)in some amps Then you had to pay a huge "fee" to the local dealer to get it converted, what about that ?

dmg
2010-04-14, 18:26
Have you heard that Logitech sold a bunch with a coupon code in the US that brought it down to $225 USD? That makes the $379 CAD even more painful.

Wish I could even order one, as Logitech Canada doesn't seem to be inclined to release any. Why do we always get the back seat to the US. It's the same market, same products, just with a pesky border.

Yes, I saw the offer in the forum and groaned--you have to have a US address in order to order from the US Logitech site. It is annoying that the price is so much higher in Canada. Companies price products higher in Canada and other market segments because they can. The US has a much larger market than Canada and, I suspect, more assertive consumers. That may change at some point, but for now we are stuck with this miserable situation.

Today, the CDN dollar is actually higher than the US dollar. And, with a projected interest rate hike in June by the Bank of Canada, it is likely to stay at par or higher than the US dollar for some time. At some point, US suppliers might concede some price points owing to consumer demand/outrage, as the book sellers did in 2007/8. However, in that case, it was the bookstores that suffered, not the publishers or distributors who maintained similar levels of price discrimination. It's the same story, only worse, for cars, where the markups are both huge and unjustifiable.

I note that a CDN reseller (http://solutionsav.ca/oppo.html) stated in the Canuck Audio Mart forum that he is going to see what he can do with the price once it is released in Canada (http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13087&start=15). However, it sucks that he is the one who has to cut his profit margin because the CDN distributor won't budge on the price.

I guess we just have to be patient and wait until the Touch is more widely available at online retailers. However, if I see that Solutions AV is attempting to bring the price down for consumers, I will seriously consider purchasing one from the company once they get inventory.