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Meshoulam, Arnon
2004-08-11, 16:04
Agreed, but currently AlienStream is based on xine.
As of now, xine doesn't support fifos on which Alien is based.
Thoughts of using it in otherways, or other tools: wmatool, ffmpeg?

Arnon

_____

From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Jules Taplin
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:17 PM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows Mediastreaming


Hey guys.

Streaming non mp3 is basically hard because most other streaming formats
are proprietry, and so there aren't very good freely available tools to
work with them.

There is activity going on that might alleviate some of that (there's a
new AlienBBC release pending that if it pans out, might provide a nice
architecture for coping with some of it), but basically... making any of
this cross platform (which is a requirement for 'proper' slimserver
support) isn't simple. Microsoft, for example, haven't given us a open,
unencumbered set of linux and MacOS tools with which to build support
for their stream. Real are slightly better - they do at least provide
players - but even then... they haven't got a 'just give me the stream
without any crap' function.

Annoying, isn't it :(


-- Jules

----- Original Message -----
From: Meshoulam, Arnon <mailto:arnon.meshoulam (AT) intel (DOT) com>
To: Slim Devices Discussion
<mailto:discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:22 PM
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows
Mediastreaming

Dont; know.

Seems that the whol subject of streaming non-mp3 is under
developed. Documentation ignores it and the various history in the
mailing lists is contrictory.
I am trying to sort out the options first (Linux and Win32) and
then work it through
Yes, I have the same issues you have...

Arnon

_____

From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:49 AM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Cc: jewel.tapsta (AT) kolumbus (DOT) fi
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows
Mediastreaming


Hi Arnon,

I wonder if we are the only ones using this plugin, or is there
another way to stream wma-urls ?

Perhaps you should try the developers mailinglist, or did you
try that ?

Do you have the problem that the streaming seems to die after
1-2 hours ? I tried different lame-parameters including the one used for
transcoding (-q 9, very fast) but the buffer-leves drops over time until
it stops playing.

Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: Meshoulam, Arnon
<mailto:arnon.meshoulam (AT) intel (DOT) com>
To: Slim Devices Discussion
<mailto:discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Cc: jewel.tapsta (AT) kolumbus (DOT) fi
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:38 PM
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows
Mediastreaming


Hi,

I've been looking at Tapani's WmaStream page
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/jewel.tapsta/WmaStream/WmaStream.html
<http://www.kolumbus.fi/jewel.tapsta/WmaStream/WmaStream.html> ) and an
old discussion item -
http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/developers/2003-December/006832.ht
ml
<http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/developers/2003-December/006832.h
tml> and
http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/developers/2003-December/006812.ht
ml
<http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/developers/2003-December/006812.h
tml>

In the webpage there is a discussion about the WmaStream
plugin

In the discussion group there are changes for direct
support by the server

Why was this lost? Why not include in in the
documentation as part of the supported formats? Is there a final
decision on RA and WMA?


Arnon


_____

Jules Taplin
2004-08-11, 16:16
Revisiting Real Audio / Windows MediastreamingErm. Ok. You've lost me.

AlienStream uses a pair of fifo's - One that the alienstream executable itself writes to (actually... the exe is just a wrapper for the xine-libraries) - it's those that do the actual writing. A lame transcoder process is also spawned, which is mostly required because slimserver loses the plot a little on things like 22kHz wav files.

So... the fifo's really aren't an issue, per-se.

There _IS_ a problem with the way that plugin works, though, in that it's only in control of the process while it's running, and that's not ideal.

I have an experimental alternative build of AlienBBC which uses a completely external transcoder process which means that as far as the SB is concerned - it just sees an mp3 stream. This works better for me, and could potentially mean that you could bolt other audio formats in with minimal disruption.

However... the basic problem remains the same - where do you get a good, cross-platform set of libraries for decoding these streams? Currently AlienStream/AlienBBC is Linux only, although a MacOS version should be trivial to port, and a Windows one _might_ be possible (the only major hurdle I can see on the prototype build is the fifo's - I believe Windows Named Pipes do exist - but I've no direct experience of using them). The fifo requirement could probably be removed, but that'd need patching the xine libraries directly - and I've no obvious appetite for that job.

-- Jules
----- Original Message -----
From: Meshoulam, Arnon
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:04 AM
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows Mediastreaming


Agreed, but currently AlienStream is based on xine.
As of now, xine doesn't support fifos on which Alien is based.
Thoughts of using it in otherways, or other tools: wmatool, ffmpeg?

Arnon



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com [mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Jules Taplin
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:17 PM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows Mediastreaming


Hey guys.

Streaming non mp3 is basically hard because most other streaming formats are proprietry, and so there aren't very good freely available tools to work with them.

There is activity going on that might alleviate some of that (there's a new AlienBBC release pending that if it pans out, might provide a nice architecture for coping with some of it), but basically... making any of this cross platform (which is a requirement for 'proper' slimserver support) isn't simple. Microsoft, for example, haven't given us a open, unencumbered set of linux and MacOS tools with which to build support for their stream. Real are slightly better - they do at least provide players - but even then... they haven't got a 'just give me the stream without any crap' function.

Annoying, isn't it :(


-- Jules
----- Original Message -----
From: Meshoulam, Arnon
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:22 PM
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows Mediastreaming


Dont; know.

Seems that the whol subject of streaming non-mp3 is under developed. Documentation ignores it and the various history in the mailing lists is contrictory.
I am trying to sort out the options first (Linux and Win32) and then work it through
Yes, I have the same issues you have...

Arnon



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com [mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:49 AM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Cc: jewel.tapsta (AT) kolumbus (DOT) fi
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows Mediastreaming


Hi Arnon,

I wonder if we are the only ones using this plugin, or is there another way to stream wma-urls ?

Perhaps you should try the developers mailinglist, or did you try that ?

Do you have the problem that the streaming seems to die after 1-2 hours ? I tried different lame-parameters including the one used for transcoding (-q 9, very fast) but the buffer-leves drops over time until it stops playing.

Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Meshoulam, Arnon
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Cc: jewel.tapsta (AT) kolumbus (DOT) fi
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:38 PM
Subject: [slim] Revisiting Real Audio / Windows Mediastreaming


Hi,

I've been looking at Tapani's WmaStream page (http://www.kolumbus.fi/jewel.tapsta/WmaStream/WmaStream.html) and an old discussion item - http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/developers/2003-December/006832.html and http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/developers/2003-December/006812.html

In the webpage there is a discussion about the WmaStream plugin

In the discussion group there are changes for direct support by the server

Why was this lost? Why not include in in the documentation as part of the supported formats? Is there a final decision on RA and WMA?



Arnon



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