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pippin
2010-01-28, 01:34
I do have some ideas of my own, but they are still in fledgling state.

So what do you think: How should we fill that big screen?

My first takes:

- Landscape mode. OK, No-brainer. Apple requires this.
- Playlist and NowPlaying always visible. Simple in Landscape mode, how to do in portrait
- Big Artwork: Always or as a "screen saver"? How Big? Bet none of you have 768x768 artwork. iTunes provides up to 600x600, is this the size?
- Players permanently accessible. How?
- Visualizers?
...?

Kim.T
2010-01-28, 01:53
Silly question - could we test the App on a MacBook to be able to come with input ?

pippin
2010-01-28, 02:02
Silly question - could we test the App on a MacBook to be able to come with input ?

No :(
It's an iPhone App.
I was even, for a moment, thinking about making a big-screen version of the web-skin plugin to test out things...

Chunkywizard
2010-01-28, 02:56
I agree, 600x600 artwork to match iTunes (and also albumartexchange.com) would seem to be sensible.

CW

jtf
2010-01-28, 06:50
Dedicated buttons for play, pause, next, random, etc on the same page.

Take advantage of the real estate to put everything on one screen instead of having to swipe.

bluegaspode
2010-01-28, 09:05
can only recommend http://www.balsamiq.com/products/mockups for testing :)
It also contains IPhone Backgrounds and you can try it online ...

5min result ...

linvale
2010-01-28, 09:08
Certainly the display of good sized cover art is the number one appeal. 600x600 is the standard at album art exchange - which is where I first go to seek covers these days. Perhaps we'll also one day get the ability to incorporate other artwork into a dynamic "now playing" screensaver (eg back cover, liner notes, artist photos) Add something like cover flow album selector to take advantage of the touch interface. You might consider using the remaining real estate on the screen to show potentially; lyrics, bio, next song on playlist as well as basic controls. Seems to me the combination of eye-candy and a fast intuitive touch interface would be very attractive. Thanks Pippin. (if you did update the iPeng skin for SBS using a landscape mode etc - I'd be using it already - only wish I was smart enough to help with code).

jrfuda
2010-01-28, 09:12
How about making it EXACTLY like the squeezbox touch interface - look and function, so a new interface will not have to be learned. Also keep a look that looks like the existing iphone/itouch interface for continuity with those folks.

pippin
2010-01-28, 09:25
(if you did update the iPeng skin for SBS using a landscape mode etc

? Doesn't that work anymore? Then SKIN used to have a landscape mode (for the browse screens), it's the app that doesn't have that.

pippin
2010-01-28, 09:26
How about making it EXACTLY like the squeezbox touch interface - look and function,

Over.my.dead.body!


Also keep a look that looks like the existing iphone/itouch interface for continuity with those folks.
No what? That's pretty much the opposite of your first statement.
Plus, iPod can do waaaay less than SBs so little help here.

Sike
2010-01-28, 09:54
Hi Pippin

After you great work on the iPhone, I am sure that you will come up with something great.

I am still exited about the iPAD, even if it just lies around the sitting room to control my arsenal of Squeezeboxes.

please make it fast and inituitive. With so much screen real estate we can have album art and syncing and playlist editing and .....

Sike

parfour
2010-01-28, 10:21
Go on i'll stick my head up to be shot at!
i have been having the ipad debate today in the office and before i get blasted

* the iPad looks sweet (although expensive)
* iPeng is remarkable on the App Store and iPhone - i use it


What i would like is a port of the iPeng app to either Android or other similar open o/s. My wife has an android app on her Hero for control of the squeezeboxen but it is not in the same league. The iPad will change the market even if it means smaller cheaper tablet style devices with a "mobile" os such as android...now those devices i would buy and multiples of them....

MelonMonkey
2010-01-28, 10:34
Just an FYI, 600x600 is about the mid-size of my artwork. Generally I only have smaller for things that I have been too lazy to scan when I haven't been able to find a larger size. I prefer artwork that's over 1000x1000 and some of my tracks have closer to 2000x2000 artwork.

You'd probably do well to have support for something around 600x600 but also offer support for larger in the case of a screen saver.

Copying the Squeezebox Touch interface is not the way to go.

I'd love to see multiple modes of picking albums, including a list similar to the current iPeng (but larger) and of course an album cover wall, even if it didn't have adjustable cover size.

You should probably strongly focus on making sure that you can access everything from either orientation. Forcing someone to turn the device is not a good idea. You can see this in the iPhone's own iPod app where turning the device is the only way to do cover flow - and it's the only thing you can do in that orientation. The new iPod app on the iPad looks a lot better than any of Apple's previous efforts, but it shouldn't be to difficult to make something even more spectacular for iPeng.

Also. A lot of people will use an iPod or iPad instead of a Squeezebox as soon as iPeng has playback support. Imagine the iPad in a cradle, even if a custom one to mount it horizontally, connected to your stereo system. That's a pretty nice Squeezebox Touch right there. Might as well buy two of them. One of them for playback and the other to use as a remote control. ;)

Phil Leigh
2010-01-28, 10:53
Also. A lot of people will use an iPod or iPad instead of a Squeezebox as soon as iPeng has playback support. Imagine the iPad in a cradle, even if a custom one to mount it horizontally, connected to your stereo system. That's a pretty nice Squeezebox Touch right there.

yeauch! - oh no it isn't. iPad = great controller (potentially) but NOT a great playback device. At least, not while it runs an Apple operating system... and it won't even get close to Touch sound quality.

andyg
2010-01-28, 10:56
FYI please don't go crazy on your album art, adding 10MB huge scanned files to your tags like I have been seeing lately. :) This can cause some problems with the scanner.

pippin
2010-01-28, 11:13
The new iPod app on the iPad looks a lot better than any of Apple's previous efforts, but it shouldn't be to difficult to make something even more spectacular for iPeng.


Hm.. I found that just a little bit too close to my well hated iTunes.
But I did get a few _really_ cool ideas from some of the other apps. Just don't know whether they are feasible, yet.

Plus the general layout (categories on the side, content next to it) is probably the way to go.

@Andy (and all):
We
need.more.visuals.in.SBS!

I want artist artwork!
I want more than one cover per album!

@Community:
We need a good Lyrics plugin. Yes, I know there is one. But it only uses one source, which is one with doubtful legal status.
Plus it doesn't have any CLI support so I can't get any info out of it for iPeng.
Plus I can't replicate it's functionality 1:1 without getting thrown out of the App Store.
We should have a plugin that looks for Lyrics on various locations among them at least a few licensed ones like Lyric Wiki.

andyg
2010-01-28, 11:25
@Andy (and all):
We
need.more.visuals.in.SBS!

I want artist artwork!
I want more than one cover per album!


Agreed, need to get to my "rethink artwork" bug at some point.

jtf
2010-01-28, 11:29
Another thing I'd like to see Pippin - an option for big text that flows the whole width of the screen.
One unfortunate thing about the iPad is the inability to dock it in landscape. That would be nice to do if you want it docked and playing music - and if the display was large enough to read across the room.

Since it can't multitask - what about the ability to show a slideshow from a selected album on your iPad while simultaneously showing the iPeng/now playing info? Maybe the slideshow on the bottom and the iPeng content on top in portrait mode?

BTW, it goes without saying, but iPeng is great!

Jeff

panos_k75
2010-01-28, 14:47
Look at itunes and the way it looks on the iPad...you can't go wrong with that, at least visually.

mortslim
2010-01-28, 15:00
Rather than worry about visuals, my sugggestion is on adding functionality.

One feature on the LCD screen of my squeezeboxes which I find to be most helpful that adds to the listening experience is that when on the "Now Playing" screen, by clicking to the right, there is a new screen which adds choices to listen to the same or similar artists or the same or similar song or similar playlists on the other music apps, such as on Slacker, on Last FM, on Pandora and on Rhapsody.

This powerful feature allows me to explore and discover music from the competing services. Each service has its own take on what it considers to be similar music and they all interpret what is "similar" differently. I get a lot more choices with this feature.

I would love to have this feature added to iPeng.

mortslim
2010-01-28, 15:31
Uh, oh, I have to apologize. I played around with iPeng just now and realized that it already has the feature I suggested. I guess this just shows that I shouldn't assume I can skip an app's help menu. It has good info !

All you have to do is hold your finger on the Now Playing screen and a new screen pops up that has the features I requested in my prior post.

iPeng is better and better all the time !!!

archinaut
2010-01-28, 16:02
With the extra screen space of the iPad it would be really nice to have the ability to choose different windows or information for the left/right or top/bottom halves of the screen. This way, for example, you could choose to keep a Now Playing window with album art on one side and either a file browser or track list or album review on the other.

pichonCalavera
2010-01-28, 16:32
The iPad sure opens up the possibilities since it has more screen estate.

The main focus should be of course to act as a remote control, so browsing for albums and such should receive an overhaul, but it opens the way for more eye-candy too (fancier Now Playing screen).

pippin
2010-01-28, 17:08
Look at itunes and the way it looks on the iPad...you can't go wrong with that, at least visually.
Oh Yes, you can.
It looks like iTunes, my #1 hated software of all. Not going to happen.

Gerry123
2010-01-28, 21:30
I know I'm really old and everything but I just don't get the concept of an iPad.
They say that touch is the way to go and for people with pianist fingers I guess that's right but if you have sausages for fingers as I have, touch just doesn't make any sense. I love iPeng on the iPod and all that as it's a million times better than the SBC for a remote control but I still struggle hitting the right area of the screen.
I hasten to add that this is not the fault of the iPod or iPeng just my stumpy fingers and I'm not aware of a firmware update that can change that :-)

Now, I want a remote control that can fit in my pocket. Take it out to change tracks etc etc. With an iPad it's still got to be left somewhere lieing around and be found and picked up to do anything, might as well go to your desktop to do it.

There's also the fact that are you seriously gonna walk around the high street with an iPad in your hands. It wouldn't last 2 minutes, not to mention the wazerk factor (stronger words censored). At least an iPod/phone can be made to look quite discreet.

I'm sorry, but I'll be sticking to what I've got, which incidentally, takeing out the 2x4's I call fingers works a charm.

Gerry.

P.S. Flame deflector at the ready.

autopilot
2010-01-29, 01:23
With the extra screen space of the iPad it would be really nice to have the ability to choose different windows or information for the left/right or top/bottom halves of the screen. This way, for example, you could choose to keep a Now Playing window with album art on one side and either a file browser or track list or album review on the other.

Thats what i would like. Split it into 2 or 3 panes, with a now playing area, browser area and playlist/sync menu.

Cant say i am ever likely to own an iPad though.

Muele
2010-01-29, 01:59
I'm not really in the market for iStuff.

But as others sort of suggest:
Think dashboards.
Make a number of layouts with 1, 2, 3, 4,5 or more "frames" and a number of contents to fill in them: now playing, browse artist, similar artists, artist's flickr pics, lyrics, You name it. Heck, make an API to let it posible for others to develop stuff. Ok, I'm probably in over my head now, but you get the drift.

It may not be very iStuff-like to allow customization, but I think this could really be a differentiatior.

dave77
2010-01-29, 04:11
The iPad sure opens up the possibilities since it has more screen estate.

It's still quite low res though, 1024x768

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=511255&postcount=6

I like this one, with the 'Next Playing' on the right, maybe with the right panel also being used to navigate 'My Music' to add new songs to the playlist whilst the left 'Now Playing' is always displayed

Espen
2010-01-29, 07:48
It's still quite low res though, 1024x768


Well, the pixel count still increases from approx 153k to 786k. So there is room for a lot of good stuff.

panos_k75
2010-01-29, 09:59
Don't reinvent the wheel..there are so many beautiful and practical music interfaces out there on that screen size. Just pick one and use it to built on it. Unless you want to hire a graphic/interface designer...

erland
2010-01-29, 10:30
I think it would be a good idea to dedicate the half of the screen to a Now Playing screen and the other half to a navigation/control screen. Possibly also a screen saver mode when it's placed in the docking station a a few meters away from where I'm sitting.

Things that would be nice when used as screen saver in the docking station:
- Album art, large is good but I have a feeling it doesn't have to be a lot larger than it is on the touch.
- Now playing information with larger font, artist, album, track.
- YouTube video of currently playing track (only video, not audio)
- Artist artwork, from LastFM or something similar. It's accessible through Custom Scan already today.
- Big clock
- Preferably the the possibility to select what "view" you like to show in different areas of the screen

When I have it in the hand it would also be nice to from the Now Playing screen have access to:
- Play, pause, stop, fwd/rew controls (and other things needed)
- Easily access to presets/favorites
- Biography/AlbumReview plugin information about currently playing artist/album
- Lyrics
- Shortcuts to configurable menus (similar to bottom toolbar on iPeng on iPhone)
- Current playlist
- Track details of currently playing track

When navigating the library, we of course want things like:
- Playlist creation with drag&drop
- Information about currently browsed artist/album, compare with Custom Browse page headers in web UI
- It feels like it might be good to use half the screen for navigation menus and the other half for artist/album information or possibly a Now Playing screen.

If something isn't supported in SBS and you need JSON support and can't get Logitech to implement it, let us know.

I'm getting more and more exited when I think about the possibilities, this is going to be great. Now, I'm just worried that I won't be able to get a a 3G version in Sweden until after the summer due to some stupid arrangements with 3G operators.

pippin
2010-01-29, 10:42
If something isn't supported in SBS and you need JSON support and can't get Logitech to implement it, let us know.

Lyrics (see my comment above).
Lyrics
Lyrics
Artist artwork (will have a look at custom Scan).


I'm getting more and more exited when I think about the possibilities, this is going to be great. Now, I'm just worried that I won't be able to get a a 3G version in Sweden until after the summer due to some stupid arrangements with 3G operators.

Why do you want the 3G version? Do you plan to take this out of the house?

erland
2010-01-29, 10:54
Why do you want the 3G version? Do you plan to take this out of the house?
I'm not sure, it just felt like adding $130 to get 3G would be worth it just to be safe for the future. I'd hate to buy a Wifi and a month later realize that I really need 3G. It could be nice when traveling instead of surfing on the small iPhone screen or bringing a separate laptop.

I don't really need a 3G subscription from the beginning, it would be enough to just know that I can add it later if needed.

andyg
2010-01-29, 10:55
Lyrics (see my comment above).
Lyrics
Lyrics


Lyrics are supported in the database already if you have a lyrics tag, but I guess you mean automatic lyrics fetch? The problem is legality around this, that's why Logitech can't implement it.



Artist artwork (will have a look at custom Scan).


How would this work anyway? Are you talking about automatic linking to some online artwork, like the Flickr plugin does? Same legal problems for us to implement it, other than the Flickr way.

erland
2010-01-29, 11:00
Artist artwork (will have a look at custom Scan).

It requires scanning with the LastFM scanning module in Custom Scan and I think it requires Custom Browse to access the cached image files.

After that you can use URL's like:
http://x.x.x.x:9000/plugins/CustomBrowse/custombrowse_imagecachefile.png?type=artist&section=artists&artist=446

If we really want this I think it would be pretty easy to implement a solution that didn't require scanning, I just implemented it in Custom Scan because I needed other information (tags and similar artists) from LastFM which I had to store locally to make it possible to use in Custom Browse and SQL Playlist.

By the way, similar artists would be nice in iPeng iPad too.

pippin
2010-01-29, 11:00
Lyrics are supported in the database already if you have a lyrics tag, but I guess you mean automatic lyrics fetch? The problem is legality around this, that's why Logitech can't implement it.

...which is also why I can't...
I would want Karaoke tags in the Lyrics, too, btw :)


How would this work anyway? Are you talking about automatic linking to some online artwork, like the Flickr plugin does? Same legal problems for us to implement it, other than the Flickr way.
Well, probably more reasons for a plugin...
If I could just get an artwork for an artist from the server, that would already be nice... if it's not there, I just display some generic stuff...

MelonMonkey
2010-01-29, 11:54
Implementation of a feature isn't illegal unless you're thinking about ripping off copyright holders. There are plenty of companies out there ready to license data. Cost is and will always be the main factor.

Logitech has plenty of contacts and money to work on some additional licensing deals.

That said, it's easy enough to get lyrics into your tags ahead of time. But yes, I can see the appeal to fetching them and artwork on-demand, since after all this is a connected device.

ITunes sucks for many reasons. Its UI, when browsing local music, is not one of those. There is no music management app for any platform with as much functionality nor as usable a UI. I don't necessarily think it's the right UI for a media pad, nor does it make the best playback UI.

Whatever gets implemented, just make sure that there is a way to have the screen filled completely with an album art grid. In other words, if there's a split pane showing Now Playing make it able to be turned off/on. Also make sure there's a Now Playing that focuses solely on what's now playing and possibly some info of what's coming next, but not the previous grid navigation. In other words, this doesn't need to be a rehash of the web interface. Because one can already hit the web interface if that's what they want. :)

I'd have no problems paying $20 for a new version of iPeng if it supported playback on top of all this. And I suspect thousands of other people feel the same way. Imagine how many people are out there, currently without Squeezebox hardware that might be interested in being able to use iPeng as a player along with a server installation? No one is going to convince the mass-market that the audio quality out of the iPod or iPad isn't good enough. Most listeners here don't have the rest of the equipment to ever notice a difference either.

I've already got 2 classic SB3 and a radio on the way, and I can still appreciate and desire iPeng with playback support for use on either iPhone/iPod or iPad.

erland
2010-01-29, 12:15
I'd have no problems paying $20 for a new version of iPeng if it supported playback on top of all this.

I'd have no problems paying $20 for a iPad version of iPeng without playback.



And I suspect thousands of other people feel the same way. Imagine how many people are out there, currently without Squeezebox hardware that might be interested in being able to use iPeng as a player along with a server installation? No one is going to convince the mass-market that the audio quality out of the iPod or iPad isn't good enough. Most listeners here don't have the rest of the equipment to ever notice a difference either.

I'm not sure about playback on iPad. It's very useful as a Squeezebox replacement when you have it in the docking station but is it really going to be that useful when the iPad isn't in the dock ?

The iPhone or iPod Touch is completely different because you can keep them in the pocket with headphones. I'm imagining that I'll want to use some other application on the iPad if I don't have it in the dock and as I've understood it, everyone assumes it won't support background applications.

linvale
2010-01-29, 18:04
Following this for 24 hrs and seeing the number of good ideas is very exciting. Reading the dialog between Pippin and Erland and thinking of the possibilities if these two combined forces (with the significant improvements that seem to be promised with v7.5 / 8.0 )to produce the plugin/app that delivered on just some of these features makes me wonder what Logitechs next product after the Touch might be. Clearly there are a lot of fans of iPeng who love the idea of a bigger, better interface and the concept of a great media player front end for the best digital audio players so far produced. This would catapult Logitech ahead of any other players out there IMHO. Sign me up.

gharris999
2010-01-29, 18:48
Over.my.dead.body!
As a long time iPeng user and fan, I agree. The iThangs (phone, touch, pad) will do many things differently than the SBTouch. Why hobble the UI?

Stuff I would like to see:

Currently, in the SBS webUI, URLs in COMMENTs are automatically parsed and rendered into links. It would be nice if iPeng could do this too and allow Safari to open the link. This ability goes way back to the 6.0 days, I believe.

E.g:


REM COMMENT "Bauer, Marion Eugénie (b Walla Walla, WA, 15 Aug 1882; d South Hadley, MA, 9 Aug 1955). American composer, teacher and writer on music.; http://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/subscriber/article/grove/music/02353?q=Bauer&search=quick&pos=3&_start=1#firsthit; Orchestral Works; Ambache Chamber Orchestra and Ensemble; "


Also currently in the webUI, if a COMMENT or LYRIC tag contains html, the webUI renders this correctly and, again, allows the user to click on and open any links embedded.

E.g.:


comment[6]: LYRICS=<a href=http://squeezeserver/t_Post%20Modern%20Contemporary/Tenney,%20J/bio.html target=_blank>
<h3>Tenney, James (Carl)</h3>
<p>(b Silver City, NM, 10 Aug 1934; d Valencia, CA, 24 Aug 2006). American composer, theorist, educator and performer.</p>
</a>

These features were initially broken in the 7.0 'new default' SC skin when Michael started putting it together. I think it was almost a one-liner for him to re-enable this. Hopefully, it wouldn't be much harder for you to put the same functionality into iPeng. But I don't really have a clue, really, about what sort of a coding effort I'm asking for here.

epoch1970
2010-01-29, 19:27
4 pages... I wont read it all.
Just an idea, could be out of fashion, but why not a (random) visualizer ? I had a friend who wanted to reinject into itunes the music going to a player just for the sake of running g-force or somesuch... This machine probably has the juice.

erland
2010-01-29, 19:37
Currently, in the SBS webUI, URLs in COMMENTs are automatically parsed and rendered into links. It would be nice if iPeng could do this too and allow Safari to open the link. This ability goes way back to the 6.0 days, I believe.

This reminds me of another thing. It would be great to have links from Artists/Albums pages to things like LastFM, Wikipedia, allmusic.com, Amazon.com. The Custom Browse web UI have this kind of links and they work fairly well by just passing the artist name further to the correct urls handled by these web providers.

When you click on a link Safari would be shown on half the screen and the other half can keep showing Now Playing information.

dsdreamer
2010-01-30, 09:49
Although there are a ton of things you could do, I would keeping to the basic UI design you already have but with the swipe-away screens kept visible in separate panels (especially the track progress toaster and the playlist). I am less sure about keeping the devices/servers/sync groups screen visible but I would consider it for landscape mode. On the other hand, to avoid clutter and accidental key presses you might want to keep it as a swipe-on screen.

Obviously, you would want to scale the various panels appropriately, and give suitable room for album artwork.

The only thing I would like is for is for the album browsing screen to use the screen real estate to show a *large* grid of album covers. I'd like to see at least 24 album covers at once. It will be best if 100% of the screen is used for a cover art grid when you are browsing for an album to play. Otherwise keep to at least 2/3 of the screen in landscape mode for the album art grid and allow drag-and-drop of an album onto the playlist window taking up the other 1/3 of the space.

linvale
2010-01-30, 11:59
If you could emulate the interface of the Sooloos in terms of what is supposed to be a fabulous way to browse albums the purchase of an entire squeeze system, ipad and Ipeng would look like a bargain
http://www.meridian-audio.com/sooloos/

epoch1970
2010-01-30, 14:29
I was looking at th cover size on iTunes Store, I thought it was larger than 600x600 but this seems to be the size currently used. The rationale behind this seems to be that a CD cover is 12cm square, about 4.73 inches.
At 100dpi you need 473 pixels square. 100 dpi is not much when printing. I have a feeling that you could end up with a layout that could make for a printable catalog of the library, and I believe 300 dpi is more or less the baseline when printing in color ?

I liked the demo of the iphoto browser in iPad. It reminded me of an itunes app I was using long ago, showing stacks of covers on the desktop, clicking a cover was controlling play on itunes, and the playlist itself was a stack of covers. Could be fun with shake-for-random...

I still want SBS to offer better library browsability, ability to insert new songs after an album (instead of right after what's playing), ability to truncate the playlist at some point, ability to add server actions (like sync, enter sleep, volume up...) between songs.

NB: since I don't have an ipod/phone, I only saw iPeng briefly. I don't really know what it does already.

BTW, what about the itunes (LP ?) format (an html5 thing is it not ?)

pippin
2010-01-30, 14:51
I liked the demo of the iphoto browser in iPad.

Me too. That's why I said I need Artist artwork. Go reckon :)


ability to insert new songs after an album (instead of right after what's playing)

Like that one. Really. Have to remember, you don't want to file a ticket on iPeng track? There's a component "iPad" to file tickets against...


NB: since I don't have an ipod/phone, I only saw iPeng briefly. I don't really know what it does already.

Ah, OK... Will file the ticket myself.
iPeng does none of your suggestions above right now, at least not without CustomBrowse and DynamicPlaylist plugins.
You can see some screen shots on
www.penguinlovesmusic.com

richardcarter
2010-02-17, 05:32
Coverflow - obvious one

Integration with API's - last.fm/myspace etc. etc. - details of artist, gigs etc.

Something radical )) . for large music collections why not come up with a completely radical interface for finding music, instead of the usual list, thumb view. Something you can 'play' with and explore in a visually appealing 'artistic' way:)

think multitouch experience, shapes, colours, movement, resizing, attractors, repellants. These elements or 'data representations' can be used in different combinations to find music. Could be used selecting genre,year or year range, linking with online API's data to create links to other artists and making suggestions.

Just think something a lot more could be done with a large multitouch screen with animation etc.

Loads of ideas on here - http://visualizingmusic.com/page/2/ - may help get a better understanding of what I am on about :)

and this is really nice to play with - http://www.fidgt.com/visualize

twylie
2010-02-17, 14:22
I am definitely looking forward to the iPad for this and a few other "control" apps I expect will be killer on the device.

Wired posted a video yesterday of how their app will look on the device. The video is VERY cool and is actually running live code and content. It may give you some different ideas for constructs and design.

Just as their app is trying to redefine static/interactive content, I think there is great opportunity to have a music application running on the iPad that becomes very immersive. I can see where it could allow the user to free roam music, musical connections, history, etc. all within one tidy application.

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/02/the-wired-ipad-app-a-video-demonstration/

jdoering
2010-02-18, 20:36
I initially thought I was completely disinterested in the iPad. While I love my iPhone; I'm skeptical about such a closed platform for anything that starts approaching a laptop replacement.

But after using my iPhone with iPeng and also as a remote for my Tivo HD (I hate needing to aim line-of-sight IR) I realized that I'd probably love an iPad as a sort of super-smart universal remote. Yeah I know there are a bunch of devices in that category (Harmony, etc) but this one would do more (real web browsing, etc in a pinch) and run best-of-breed options like iPeng. Now all I need is someone to come out with a good option for Wifi-to-IR conversion at a reasonable price with a great iPhone app to go alon. I see that a few options exist but I don't know if they meet this criteria.

Back to the point. One thing that would be good for the use case I'm imagining would be quick switching between such remote apps. I don't know if the iPhone/iPad development platform allows this but for me it would be ideal to do it with hotlinks between apps rather than having to exit to the main app screen and pick there (requiring me to keep them sorted carefully for the right grouping, etc).

-Jeff

trouty00
2010-02-19, 06:02
you could set it up completely like windows media player with the three panels type environment (library, now playing artwork, playlist) but rather than the traditional media player library options on the left the user would select from a drop down what they want to show up in that frame, ie favs, artists, napster, basically the same options as what you get on the touch app with the quick options on the bottom and these can be edited as like on the touch/iphone.

then have current now playing screen in the middle frame but instead of swiping left and right you swipe up and down to get to the sync page, then on the right hand side you can simply have a playlist.


when the user selects one of the options from the drop down on the left panel the info shows up there,

then you can have a screensaver option which shows just the artwork or maybe fanart.


also utilise any physical keys you can especially for the volume control if it has them.

just a bit of brainstorming....

guidovilla
2010-02-27, 07:32
Hi, please do not forget if possibile the people out here who don't have album artwork, or lyrics, or other info related to the music they are listening to.

The interface should be enjoyable also for these folks, without them having too much screen real estate occupied by empty placeholders of functionalities they cannot (or do not want to) use.

Bye,
Guido

PS: actually I speak for myself :) as I listen to a lot of classical music, for which I do not have any metadata...

mortslim
2010-02-27, 11:40
I like the flickr feature on iPeng such that I can hold a finger on the Now Playing screen to bring up photos of the artist.

I also like the ability to go from one service e.g. last fm, then holding a finger on the Now Playing screen to pick an alternative service to hear the same song but in a different playlist.

I hope these two features are also in the iPad app for iPeng.

ezkcdude
2010-03-12, 09:46
I ordered an iPad this morning. Whatever the iPeng app is, there has to be a convincing case made to me that it does more than the SC web interface. Otherwise, I'll just use that.

garym
2010-03-12, 11:14
I ordered an iPad this morning. Whatever the iPeng app is, there has to be a convincing case made to me that it does more than the SC web interface. Otherwise, I'll just use that.

Funny, I'm just the opposite. I'm thinking about buying an iPAD just so I can run a larger interface iPeng on it! (I'm a happy user of iPeng on my iPhone at the moment as well.)

mortslim
2010-03-12, 11:17
a convincing case

Ipeng gives so much more functionality to the system. It really makes it a pleasure to discover and change music.

The web interface doesn’t even come close.

What iPeng shows that the web interface doesn’t:

Playlist – list of songs in album or playlist – and can pick any of them to play and to not play

Can synchronize squeezeboxes

Interactive services – a song playing from one app can be found on another service very easily without having to start over – just like on the squeezebox now playing screen itself. For example, a song found on shoutcast can be found also on last.fm, Pandora, rhapsody and slacker with one finger press. So then I can find the same song on the alternative app and start an entirely new playlist or album very quickly.

Bitrate info

Elapsed time and Time remaining

Flickr pictures of the artist

erland
2010-03-12, 11:26
I ordered an iPad this morning. Whatever the iPeng app is, there has to be a convincing case made to me that it does more than the SC web interface. Otherwise, I'll just use that.

It's obvious that you haven't used iPeng or the other iPhone apps.

ezkcdude
2010-03-12, 12:33
It's obvious that you haven't used iPeng or the other iPhone apps.

Is that a prerequisite?

ezkcdude
2010-03-12, 12:36
Ipeng gives so much more functionality to the system. It really makes it a pleasure to discover and change music.

The web interface doesn’t even come close.

What iPeng shows that the web interface doesn’t:

Playlist – list of songs in album or playlist – and can pick any of them to play and to not play

Can synchronize squeezeboxes

Interactive services – a song playing from one app can be found on another service very easily without having to start over – just like on the squeezebox now playing screen itself. For example, a song found on shoutcast can be found also on last.fm, Pandora, rhapsody and slacker with one finger press. So then I can find the same song on the alternative app and start an entirely new playlist or album very quickly.

Bitrate info

Elapsed time and Time remaining

Flickr pictures of the artist

Does iPeng do MusicIP mixes? That's the one feature I really care about. Without that ability I would never use something else.

DaveWr
2010-03-12, 13:09
Is that a prerequisite?

Yes, no comment without experience.

Dave

pippin
2010-03-12, 13:56
Does iPeng do MusicIP mixes? That's the one feature I really care about. Without that ability I would never use something else.
Of course it does :)

That said: iPeng for iPad is still a bit out and even though I di have a general design I'm still taking suggestions.

For the iPad launch there will definitely only the iPhone version be available. I might try to stretch it out a bit to make better use of screen space for iPad but that would be it.

iPad only launches in Europe end of April (no date announced yet) and I definitely want real HW to play around with before I finalize any designs. I don't believe you can design this for usability on a simulator.
Considering to get an iPad from the US, though, just to be sure.

ezkcdude
2010-03-12, 14:04
I'll keep an eye out for it.

I have one suggestion, that you may want to consider for the iPhone and iPad. (If you already have this feature, my apologies.) It would be cool to use GPS information to find upcoming gigs in the local area of whatever band you're listening to or similar-sounding bands (perhaps, using MusicIP).

pippin
2010-03-12, 15:16
Cool idea!
Could you file a ticket for this?
https://trac.penguinlovesmusic.de/trac/ipengnat/

ezkcdude
2010-03-12, 15:40
Cool idea!
Could you file a ticket for this?
https://trac.penguinlovesmusic.de/trac/ipengnat/

Ok, just did. It's ticket #220. I also suggested that for Wi-Fi only (non-GPS) iPads, the user could enter in their zip code manually.

In general, I think that location-based and geotagging features are really going to be important going forward. This is only one example, I'm sure others could contribute many such ideas.

pippin
2010-03-12, 15:47
Ok, just did. It's ticket #220.
Thanks!


I also suggested that for Wi-Fi only (non-GPS) iPads, the user could enter in their zip code manually.

Agree, although I don't think this will be necessary unless you are in a pretty remote area. Google is pretty good at locating stuff through WiFi these days. Hey, they know EVERYTHING about you.
Where I live - ok a pretty urban area - the WiFi location on my iTouch is about as good as the GPS one on my iPhone.

Muele
2010-03-13, 00:06
I ordered an iPad this morning. Whatever the iPeng app is, there has to be a convincing case made to me that it does more than the SC web interface. Otherwise, I'll just use that.

I think that if you stick to the web interface and and after one year see iPeng at a friends i-Pod/Pad/Phone you will kick yourself in the nuts just about 365 times for not trying it out on day one.

Is the prospect of not having to punish yourself for not giving out that pettycash enough case for you?

:) :)

twylie
2010-03-13, 05:24
Thanks!

Agree, although I don't think this will be necessary unless you are in a pretty remote area. Google is pretty good at locating stuff through WiFi these days. Hey, they know EVERYTHING about you.
Where I live - ok a pretty urban area - the WiFi location on my iTouch is about as good as the GPS one on my iPhone.

I think the iPod Touch may, in part rely on Skyhook data to do WiFi locate. After I updated Skyhook's database with my WiFi MAC's and GPS coordinates, I now show up at home when using location services on my iPod Touch.

basic info:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

add an access point:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/submit_ap.php

sam3k
2010-03-13, 07:41
I quite like the idea of using a grid of album art or artist pictures to navigate by. A bit like the photos app, but without the stacks: http://images.apple.com/ipad/features/images/photos_rotator_p_20100225.jpg.

Of course, if you did manage to get artist pictures to work reliably, you could use the stack metaphor. Artists pic on top, stack of CDs underneath :)

(Oh and the ability to git rid of the light blue background pretty please....)

pippin
2010-03-13, 07:49
Guess why the first thing I did after seeing the iPad was asking for artist pictures ;)

808
2010-03-14, 02:17
The one thing I miss with all my CD's in boxes is looking through the inlay card, although it's great having thousands of tracks on a hard drive I forget what it's like to pick up CD and become engrossed in the message/artwork being portrayed by the artist.

I think that's whats going to make me upgrade to a tablet/pad/whatever, music just seems to be 'lost' with using the original squeezebox/remote. Could be me being sentimental though !

fphredd
2010-03-14, 07:11
The one thing I miss with all my CD's in boxes is looking through the inlay card, although it's great having thousands of tracks on a hard drive I forget what it's like to pick up CD and become engrossed in the message/artwork being portrayed by the artist.

I think that's whats going to make me upgrade to a tablet/pad/whatever, music just seems to be 'lost' with using the original squeezebox/remote. Could be me being sentimental though !

I was thinking the other day how I miss double album covers...I must be older than you... :-)

cunobelinus
2010-03-14, 10:51
The size and speed of the iPad raise the possibility of using it to display extended programme notes as well as displaying good quality artwork, at full length and size. If iPeng for iPad could do this, enabling access to information such as libretti, synopses or other extended texts either reading text embedded in the files/tags, or from other sources on the server's LAN or online through associated URLs, it would make a killer app if ever there was one for those listening to classical music, and for a good many other than classical music lovers too.

If one were feeling nostalgic, one might be tempted to say that it would be facilitating something very like a return to the heyday of the LP. In fact, looking at it entirely without sentiment, it would be much, much better, given the ability of the Touch to play high res music files because it would combine almost all the things people love about LPs with all the advantages of the best in current digital music reproduction. That's a pretty potent way forward for the whole SB platform, but also for digital music in its entirety.

On 14 Mar 2010, at 14:11, fphredd wrote:

>
> 808;524970 Wrote:
>> The one thing I miss with all my CD's in boxes is looking through the
>> inlay card, although it's great having thousands of tracks on a hard
>> drive I forget what it's like to pick up CD and become engrossed in the
>> message/artwork being portrayed by the artist.
>>
>> I think that's whats going to make me upgrade to a tablet/pad/whatever,
>> music just seems to be 'lost' with using the original squeezebox/remote.
>> Could be me being sentimental though !
>
> I was thinking the other day how I miss double album covers...I must be
> older than you... :-)
>
>
> --
> fphredd
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> fphredd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33133
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74581
>
>

DoomWolf
2010-03-15, 03:12
I think the iPod Touch may, in part rely on Skyhook data to do WiFi locate. After I updated Skyhook's database with my WiFi MAC's and GPS coordinates, I now show up at home when using location services on my iPod Touch.

basic info:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

add an access point:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/submit_ap.php

Sorry to go O/T, but I wonder if the iPod Touch uses more than that. At xmas I took a router to my in-law's (in a different part of the UK) to use it as a wireless access point. For those few days the iPod had no idea where it was located (as expected, although that router correctly identified my house when used at home).

A month later we went back to the in-law's and I took the router with me again. This time the iPod correctly located itself to within about 100 metres. I can't believe that Skyhook would have been driving around cataloging wi-fi networks over xmas, particularly in rural Yorkshire. If they did, then they're certainly dedicated to their jobs.

pippin
2010-03-15, 03:23
Interesting.

A lot of focus for the iPad seems to be around "show more data".
Which obviously has a dimension of where to get this data if it's not in SBS. 3rd party data sources are an obvious answer and actually I do have some things I'm working on even for the "small screen" iPeng.

Yet for some - Lyrics come to mind, we had the discussion - a plugin would be the better or even necessary idea, wouldn't it?


cataloging wi-fi networks over xmas, particularly in rural Yorkshire.

They could have been driving around there earlier and just have done the database update over Christmas.

I don't know how exactly this works, but I do know that Google (who runs this) buys data from local data providers in each country.

cunobelinus
2010-03-15, 04:24
Anything that can be downloaded and saved as a PDF, I think, can be the source. For instance, I collect the Gardiner/Monteverdi Choir Bach Cantatas. They have superb and extended programme notes, available to download as PDFs (although it's easy enough to convert and save pages that aren't using the Print menu). For Mac users, it is a piece of cake to attach these to albums in iTunes using these of Doug's Applescripts:

<http://dougscripts.com/itunes/scripts/ss.php?sp=pdfadder>

The downloads are then accessible from iTunes via a shortcut (a picture of a book) displayed in the interface next to a track listing in the album entitled "Booklet". Clicking on the track opens "Preview" (or whatever your default app for looking at PDFs is) next to, or over, the iTunes window.

What I mean is making this also possible in iPeng - only iPeng could do it better because it would give the ability to view these PDFs next to, and in the same view/appication as, all the other track info/artwork/playing info that iPeng displays already - and I am a big fan, by the way - on something the size of an iPad. In all ways but one (handling the actual cardboard) better than having the CD/LP covers themselves, as far as I can see.



On 15 Mar 2010, at 10:23, pippin wrote:

>
> Interesting.
>
> A lot of focus for the iPad seems to be around "show more data".
> Which obviously has a dimension of where to get this data if it's not
> in SBS. 3rd party data sources are an obvious answer and actually I do
> have some things I'm working on even for the "small screen" iPeng.
>
> Yet for some - Lyrics come to mind, we had the discussion - a plugin
> would be the better or even necessary idea, wouldn't it?
>
> DoomWolf;525210 Wrote:
>> cataloging wi-fi networks over xmas, particularly in rural Yorkshire.
>
> They could have been driving around there earlier and just have done
> the database update over Christmas.
>
> I don't know how exactly this works, but I do know that Google (who
> runs this) buys data from local data providers in each country.
>
>
> --
> pippin
>
> ---
> see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74581
>
>

pippin
2010-03-15, 05:34
Well, this is not about iTunes data, but Squeezebox Server. iPeng doesn't have access to iTunes on another device so iPeng has to get all the data from SBS or an online service.

iPeng does already today display all the information that SBS delivers, if you attach more with iTunes and SBS doesn't process it, I have no access to it.

This is what I meant about somebody should consider to write plugins for this.

cunobelinus
2010-03-15, 07:53
I take the point that iPeng already displays all the data that SBS can deliver, of course, and that iTunes data are not accessible to it. However, I absolutely was not writing about iTunes data, or expecting iPeng to access them.

There is nothing about these PDFs that makes them in themselves "iTunes data", any more than are the music files themselves, or the artwork and tags attached to them. It is true that the PDFs have a tag that attaches them to the music file which iTunes can read; that they are catalogued in the iTunes "library" (incidentally, it always strikes me as ludicrous that Apple insists on calling it the "iTunes library" when it is no more a library than is the chest of index cards in a real library's search room: it's merely a catalogue); and that they reside in the folders created by iTunes for the album. So, however, do and are the .aiff files on my music disk, and the tags and artwork associated with them. Yet none of these, as you know, are exclusively iTunes data. They are just as accessible to any other program or process that runs on the same machine, or on the same LAN, as they are to iTunes, be those applications Max or Amadeus Pro or Audacity or Logic or Sibelius or Coverscout or CDPedia or - because it can either directly read the tags, or the iTunes catalogue/library files - Squeezebox Server. In just the same way, these are merely ordinary PDFs readable in or by any application that is capable of rendering them (including Preview or Adobe Reader, for instance). In fact, these PDFs are not "iTunes data" even in the sense that the music files and other tags might be - absolutely not because iTunes is of itself quite incapable of rendering them. It can only understand the tag that says "get something else to read me please".

However, what is or is not iTunes data is beside my point, (or the topic of the thread, for that matter), which was merely to suggest another answer to the question: "how should iPeng on iPad look?" and to suggest that this is one "look" which it would be extremely advantageous to both systems - that is, both iPeng and SBS - to be able to deliver, by whatever means, on the iPad. If a plug-in is what is necessary to make PDFs accessible to SBS as well (as Preview and Adobe Reader, that is), and therefore to iPeng - and you will know a lot better than I if it is - then I entirely concur with your last sentence, and you've got a vote for your suggestion!


On 15 Mar 2010, at 12:34, pippin wrote:

>
> Well, this is not about iTunes data, but Squeezebox Server. iPeng
> doesn't have access to iTunes on another device so iPeng has to get all
> the data from SBS or an online service.
>
> iPeng does already today display all the information that SBS delivers,
> if you attach more with iTunes and SBS doesn't process it, I have no
> access to it.
>
> This is what I meant about somebody should consider to write plugins
> for this.
>
>
> --
> pippin
>
> ---
> see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74581
>
>

pippin
2010-03-15, 08:37
The question is not whether it's iTunes data or something. I need the PDF to display it and I can only get it through SBS, I have no other connection to your local PC. If this was online info, I'd have the chance to go look up a song and read additional information from another service.

But iPeng does not directly access data on your Mac or PC.

Now with music shared and uploaded to your iPad - that may be a different story, will have to try what you can do on iPad with that.

Cockeye
2010-03-15, 08:44
I can't believe you are ALREADY looking to maximise the iPad for iPeng! I was looking forward to using the original app on my iPad when it finally launches but an optimised version I would pay again for (but would prefer it to be free to owners, of course :D).

Whatever - nice work!

pippin
2010-03-15, 09:07
I can't believe you are ALREADY looking to maximise the iPad for iPeng! I was looking forward to using the original app on my iPad when it finally launches but an optimised version I would pay again for (but would prefer it to be free to owners, of course :D).

Whatever - nice work!

Well, it will definitely be a few months out. I need an iPad first to try the look and feel and even though I ordered one in the US it will probably take at least until mid April before it arrives.

Oh, and you would probably have to pay again :( This App will be significantly different from iPeng for iPhone/iTouch so I doubt I will get all this wrapped into conditional coding.

cunobelinus
2010-03-15, 10:38
Yes, that's what I thought you meant, despite your use of the phrase. I presumed that the plug in you suggest would be to get SBS to get it/read it from the music library (that is, the real library - where the files are). Of course, a lot of the info is actually on line - available from the record companies (certainly in the case of new high quality classical releases). See the SDG site for the Bach Pilgrimage series (Gardiner/Monteverdi Choir/English Baroque Soloists) for an excellent example: all the stuff that goes into/onto a very good CD cover indeed is there in high res.

On 15 Mar 2010, at 15:37, pippin wrote:

>
> The question is not whether it's iTunes data or something. I need the
> PDF to display it and I can only get it through SBS, I have no other
> connection to your local PC. If this was online info, I'd have the
> chance to go look up a song and read additional information from another
> service.
>
> But iPeng does not directly access data on your Mac or PC.
>
> Now with music shared and uploaded to your iPad - that may be a
> different story, will have to try what you can do on iPad with that.
>
>
> --
> pippin
>
> ---
> see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74581
>
>

erland
2010-03-15, 11:28
The question is not whether it's iTunes data or something. I need the PDF to display it and I can only get it through SBS, I have no other connection to your local PC. If this was online info, I'd have the chance to go look up a song and read additional information from another service.

Would you prefer to go through a third party plugin in SBS or having a direct connection if it was avaialble as an online source with an API ?

For example LastFM information which should be useful for pop/rock libraries for extra information, similar artists and artist images.

I'm not sure if there is any good online source with API for lyrics ? Maybe lyricsfly.com or lyrics.wikia.com ?

It would also be nice to get some integration allmusic.com, maybe through Michael's great AlbumReview/Biography plugins which probably have JSON commands to get the information since it's available on the Controller ?



Oh, and you would probably have to pay again :(

No problem, I'm sure we will all love to pay if it's as good as the current iPeng for iPhone.

erland
2010-03-15, 11:30
There is nothing about these PDFs that makes them in themselves "iTunes data", any more than are the music files themselves, or the artwork and tags attached to them.

Do you know if the information is available in the iTunes Library.xml file ?
If it's stored in tags in the music file, do you know which tag ?

pippin
2010-03-15, 11:35
Would you prefer to go through a third party plugin in SBS or having a direct connection if it was avaialble as an online source with an API ?

I don't know.
+ Plugin spares me the handling of an additional connection
+ Plugin may be more simple to implement (don't know)
- Plugin doesn't work with MySB which is growing more and more important

I definitely need a plugin for everything that maybe challenging license wise, like Lyrics.


For example LastFM information which should be useful for pop/rock libraries for extra information, similar artists and artist images.

Hm, I'll have to look at theri API


I'm not sure if there is any good online source with API for lyrics ? Maybe lyricsfly.com or lyrics.wikia.com ?

Lyrdb, the one the Lyrics plugin uses? LyricsWiki, that's lyrics.wikia.com I believe. Lyrdb has Karaoke data but is not licensed, at least not globally.
If _I_ would write such a plugin I would search in several such databases, amybe with a search order.


It would also be nice to get some integration allmusic.com, maybe through Michael's great AlbumReview/Biography plugins which probably have JSON commands to get the information since it's available on the Controller ?

They have. Even the next iPeng for iPhone will have a somewhat better integration for these.

Cockeye
2010-03-15, 13:12
No problem, I'm sure we will all love to pay if it's as good as the current iPeng for iPhone.

This ^^

cunobelinus
2010-03-15, 15:42
Hi Erland. The short answer to these questions is that I don't know, although I've tried to discover, as far as I am able with no knowledge either of AppleScript or tagging. I certainly cannot find the info itself in the .xml file, and the contents of the PDF, which run to several pages, are definitely not there. This appears to be the only section that might be relevant in the details for one track which has a PDF attached to it, but I see nothing different there from any other track that does not have an attached PDF.


v0.99pb4 </string>
<key>Artwork Count</key><integer>1</integer>
<key>Persistent ID</key><string>41FC9BDF0B1D9EF0</string>
<key>Track Type</key><string>File</string>
<key>Location</key><string>file://localhost/Volumes/music%20disk/iTunes/Budapest%20String%20Quartet/Beethoven%20Op.%200127%20(Budapest)_%20String%20Qu artet%2012%20in%20E%20flat%20Major/5-05%20B'ven%20Op%20127_%2001.%20Maestoso%20-%20Allegro.aif</string>
<key>File Folder Count</key><integer>4</integer>
<key>Library Folder Count</key><integer>1</integer>


I would think that the answers would be clear from the AppleScript itself (as revealed in script editor) to anyone who knows AppleScript and about tagging. That, I'm afraid, is not me.

The PDF shows in the iTunes interface as a track name in the album to which it is attached, with its own shortcut icon, namely, a picture of a book on the right hand margin of the "Name" field.

Whatever there is can only be a pointer for iTunes to the full PDF which is listed in Finder with the usual extension of .pdf along with the music files: in the folder for the relevant album within the iTunes music folder (a folder on an external FW disk, in my case, not the normal Media folder). It can be opened and read by either Preview or Adobe Reader - depending on the default PDF reader set - by double clicking on it in Finder in the usual way, completely independently of iTunes. Double clicking in iTunes opens the file in the default PDF reader in a new window.

Geraint.



On 15 Mar 2010, at 18:30, erland wrote:

>
> cunobelinus;525264 Wrote:
>>
>> There is nothing about these PDFs that makes them in themselves "iTunes
>> data", any more than are the music files themselves, or the artwork and
>> tags attached to them.
>>
> Do you know if the information is available in the iTunes Library.xml
> file ?
> If it's stored in tags in the music file, do you know which tag ?
>
>
> --
> erland
>
> Erland Isaksson
> 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through
> Extension Downloader)
> (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse,
> Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database
> Query plugins'
> (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer))
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74581
>
>

gharris999
2010-03-15, 15:58
Oh, and you would probably have to pay again :( This App will be significantly different from iPeng for iPhone/iTouch so I doubt I will get all this wrapped into conditional coding.
So, if it's going to be a new app, what will you call it? iPang?

(I won't mind ponying up for the new app. It will be well worth it, I'm sure.)

epoch1970
2010-03-15, 16:25
I'm in for an iPad too. With iPang, for sure. Still don't have an iPhone and I think I can resist until my Shuffle dies...

(BTW does the Store have provision for purely marketing releases ? I mean things like a bundle iPeng+iPang with x% discount, "competitive upgrade" :) pricing, etc. Not that it matters much given the price, strictly curious.)

sam3k
2010-03-18, 12:42
Guess why the first thing I did after seeing the iPad was asking for artist pictures ;)
If you do have an album grid / wall, I'd like to have the option of shuffling them. Maybe a segmented button at the top with a sort order (name/artist/year/random). It'd be nice not to always pick albums that start A to C :)

I also like the idea of having a dedicated album view, perhaps done with a WebKitView rather than a TableView. iPeng on my iPhone is very much a remote control application, I use it for quickly performing actions. I would like the iPad app to be a slower more visual experience, sitting back on the sofa casually flicking through my albums (glass of wine in hand). A digital equivalent of the CD case.

erland
2010-03-18, 17:02
I don't know.
+ Plugin spares me the handling of an additional connection
+ Plugin may be more simple to implement (don't know)
- Plugin doesn't work with MySB which is growing more and more important

I definitely need a plugin for everything that maybe challenging license wise, like Lyrics.

Just for information, I've started to look at a new "Song Info" plugin which will provide a generic JSON interface to get extra text or image url information from the server related a song, artist or album.

If everything works well it will have a plugin interface similar to Custom Scan so you can add custom modules as separate plugins but still have a generic interface to request the information.

The main reason for implementing it is that I want artist images in my "Album Flow" applet, so I'm not doing this specifically for iPeng but I suspect it might be useful also there unless you want a solution that works with MySB.com.

I'm not yet sure if it't enough to just return raw text or image urls, there might be a need for some combination and maybe also for some kind of formatted text version.

Things that should work with this:
- Last FM information (like similar artists, artist images, textual description of album/artist)
- Integration with AlbumReview/Biography plugins (haven't look at their interface yet, but the plan is that it should work)
- Integration with some lyrics plugin
- Information scanned with Custom Scan plugin

I'll probably focus on LastFM and Custom Scan support initially.

pippin
2010-03-18, 17:58
Erland,

as usual: sounds cool :)

m1abrams
2010-03-19, 06:17
Guess why the first thing I did after seeing the iPad was asking for artist pictures ;)

If you do get that, would you add artist pics to the iphone version on the "artist browse"?

Pretty Pictures are always nicer to browse by. Curious I know the Cover Flow is more gimmick than anything but have you thought about providing a similar feature for landscape mode?

RonD2
2010-03-19, 06:41
Would it be possible to display the contents of a *.txt file residing in the folder from which the current song is playing? I have many (legal) live boots that have txt files with info such as venue, personnel, etc. Unfortunately they are not always named "info.txt" but they are the only txt file in the folder.

Failing this, would it be possible to have an equivalent to what is possible in, for example, foobar: a right click on the file that is playing gives a "Open containing folder" option in the dropdown. I can then manually open the text file.

I understand the multitasking issues but I think (hope) this will disappear soon. Apple cannot be that stupid to let this limitation persist.

I also understand that this feature is probably not of interest to many but thought I'd ask anyway.

pippin
2010-03-19, 06:43
If you do get that, would you add artist pics to the iphone version on the "artist browse"?

yes.


Pretty Pictures are always nicer to browse by. Curious I know the Cover Flow is more gimmick than anything but have you thought about providing a similar feature for landscape mode?

Yes, of course. Not sure I'll do it on iPhone, though, at least in the short term.
Actually as cool as it looks meanwhile I don't only find it useless but even annoying. Happens soooo often that I'm lying in bed, listening to my iPod and when I want to search my library all of a sudden that damn thing switches it CoverFlow... Typical case of looks cool but doesn't really solve a problem.

And then all this work for something you finally find annoying ?

pippin
2010-03-19, 06:44
If you do get that, would you add artist pics to the iphone version on the "artist browse"?

yes.


Pretty Pictures are always nicer to browse by. Curious I know the Cover Flow is more gimmick than anything but have you thought about providing a similar feature for landscape mode?

Yes, of course. Not sure I'll do it on iPhone, though, at least in the short term.
Actually as cool as it looks meanwhile I don't only find it useless but even annoying. Happens soooo often that I'm lying in bed, listening to my iPod and when I want to search my library all of a sudden that damn thing switches it CoverFlow... Typical case of looks cool but doesn't really solve a problem.

pippin
2010-03-19, 06:46
Would it be possible to display the contents of a *.txt file residing in the folder from which the current song is playing? I have many (legal) live boots that have txt files with info such as venue, personnel, etc. Unfortunately they are not always named "info.txt" but they are the only txt file in the folder.

Failing this, would it be possible to have an equivalent to what is possible in, for example, foobar: a right click on the file that is playing gives a "Open containing folder" option in the dropdown. I can then manually open the text file.

No and No. iPeng has no access to your folders, iPeng only has access to Squeezebox Server's library. You'd need to somehow tell SBS to scan that file and provide access to it. It's not that anybody can just ready any file from your PC/Mac with an iPhone, which actually is a good thing :)

mherger
2010-03-19, 06:50
> And then all this work for something you finally find annoying ?

You're developing for your customers. If they like it?...

m1abrams
2010-03-19, 07:17
yes.


Yes, of course. Not sure I'll do it on iPhone, though, at least in the short term.
Actually as cool as it looks meanwhile I don't only find it useless but even annoying. Happens soooo often that I'm lying in bed, listening to my iPod and when I want to search my library all of a sudden that damn thing switches it CoverFlow... Typical case of looks cool but doesn't really solve a problem.

I agree I find it annoying too, wish you could turn it OFF. Not sure why that is not a per app option everywhere.

pippin
2010-03-19, 07:19
> And then all this work for something you finally find annoying ?

You're developing for your customers. If they like it?...

Certainly. But I might set some priorities :)

mherger
2010-03-19, 07:45
>> > And then all this work for something you finally find annoying ?

BTW: this annoyance isn't limited to coverflow. Automatic switching mail/web/... from landscape to portrait mode can be annoying in the bed case too...

pippin
2010-03-19, 08:29
That's probably why you can inhibit the automatic orientation change on iPad :)

fphredd
2010-03-19, 12:21
Would it be possible to display the contents of a *.txt file residing in the folder from which the current song is playing? I have many (legal) live boots that have txt files with info such as venue, personnel, etc. Unfortunately they are not always named "info.txt" but they are the only txt file in the folder.

Failing this, would it be possible to have an equivalent to what is possible in, for example, foobar: a right click on the file that is playing gives a "Open containing folder" option in the dropdown. I can then manually open the text file.

I understand the multitasking issues but I think (hope) this will disappear soon. Apple cannot be that stupid to let this limitation persist.

I also understand that this feature is probably not of interest to many but thought I'd ask anyway.

I would like the same thing for the exact same reason, thought what I've also done is convert the txt's to pdf and combined into one file with an index (bookmarks). Once apple gets past the 'multitasking issues' creating that pdf on another machine and then opening on the iPad is what I'm aiming for.

erland
2010-03-19, 21:59
Would it be possible to display the contents of a *.txt file residing in the folder from which the current song is playing? I have many (legal) live boots that have txt files with info such as venue, personnel, etc. Unfortunately they are not always named "info.txt" but they are the only txt file in the folder.

No and No. iPeng has no access to your folders, iPeng only has access to Squeezebox Server's library. You'd need to somehow tell SBS to scan that file and provide access to it. It's not that anybody can just ready any file from your PC/Mac with an iPhone, which actually is a good thing :)

If there is a general use for something like this it would be possible to handle it through the "Song Info" plugin I mentioned I'm working on earlier in the thread.

At the moment the plan is that it will have three JSON commands, something like:
songinfo gettrackinfo lastfmtracktags trackid:345
songinfo getartistinfo lastfmartistimages artistid:12
songinfo getalbuminfo xxx albumid:52

The last parameter trackid/artistid/albumid will be optional, if it isn't specified it will use the information from the currently playing song..

The second last parameter "lastfmtracktags/lastfmartistimages/xxx" will tell the "Song Info" plugin what to get, this could be something like "albumtextfile" which would get the text from a .txt file with a specific name in the same directory as the music file. The second last parameter refers to a module/plugin that implements it, some will be provided by default by the "Song Info" plugin (like some lastfm modules) but others could be provided as separate plugins.

Of course, you still have to decide if this is something you like to use, as mentioned earlier my main purpose at the moment is to get artist images in my "Album Flow" applet and I'll possibly also use it in the "Custom Clock" applet to display extra information.

By the way, the second command sample shown above works on my development machine and returns a list of url's to artist images from LastFM web site. The images on LastFM are available in different sizes, I'm not sure if I should just return the "original" size or if you would like to get links to the pre scaled available from LastFM with the widths:
- small(34 pixels wide)
- medium(64 pixels wide)
- large(126 pixels wide)
- extralarge(252 pixels wide)
There is also a square image format 126x126 pixels called "largesquare".

I'm note sure I like to do any scaling in the Song Info plugin, so I think we need to either rely on the above formats avaialble directly from LastFM or making iPeng use the rescale image proxy on MySB or rescale the image locally on iPeng.

As a side note, would you prefer a image url towards SBS instead of getting the urls directly towards the LastFM site ? I think you mentioned that it didn't matter previously.

pippin
2010-03-20, 00:40
I'd want them scaled so remote URLs would be preferrable since I can throw them at MySB's imageproxy.

Isn't there some general purpose scaler in the server? I'd talk to Michael who's doing a slideshow plugin right now.

bhall
2010-03-20, 06:57
Not sure if this has been covered in previous posts but here my two cents. I would suggest the screen being divided into two sections. The section on the right would be the "now playing" section that could have album covers and perhaps a certain number of songs upcoming in the playlist. It would somewhat similar to the current "now playing" screen on the iphone/touch interface in iPeng but with more info--perhaps instead of having to swipe to the playlist, it is presented together.

The section on the left could be a number of different things, configurable by the user. It could be either the play synch screen or it could be the "more screen" in that you could choose to go to different sources of music. That is where I see the big benefit. You could in essence vastly improve the otherwise crappy UI of the duet in terms of building playlist. I would think drag/drop capability of individual tracks or albums would be a big plus.

Basically, it would look similar to what the current web ui looks like it that you could see what is playing/upcoming while also conducting searches to build the playlist out even more. The addded benefit of drag/drop would be a huge plus. Additionally, I would assume you could build bug free/better designed ui that they can.

My big use of the squeezebox is searching for music online and/or my collection to build playlists on the go. I really don't do too much other than (that is, not too interested in high res albums, years of songs, lyrics, etc--I just want to listen to music I like). The current UI frankly sucks for doing that. My focus all along is trying to get squeezebox to be more like Sonos in that aspect. At least with Sonos, it is intuitive and novices not schooled in the black arts of deciphering the design logic of the duet can pick up the remote and more or less find music without aid. And don't get me started on erasing the playlist by pressing play. Anything you can do to compensate for the shortcomings of logitech is a big plus in my book.

erland
2010-03-31, 11:47
pippin, in case you like to use a plugin integration with LastFM for artist images there is a now a beta version of the Song Info plugin I discussed earlier in this thread, you will find more information in the following thread:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76688

I'm currently using it myself to get artist images from LastFM to display them in my Album Flow applet.

pufnstuf
2010-04-03, 22:30
If you do have an album grid / wall, I'd like to have the option of shuffling them. Maybe a segmented button at the top with a sort order (name/artist/year/random). It'd be nice not to always pick albums that start A to C :)

I also like the idea of having a dedicated album view, perhaps done with a WebKitView rather than a TableView. iPeng on my iPhone is very much a remote control application, I use it for quickly performing actions. I would like the iPad app to be a slower more visual experience, sitting back on the sofa casually flicking through my albums (glass of wine in hand). A digital equivalent of the CD case.

I support sam3k's suggestions x 1000000000!

Pippin, if you get a chance take a look at subsonic music server software (www.subsonic.org) for a (rough) idea of how it's interface continually selects random album covers to view and pick from... i like it because it helps as a reminder of what albums you own.

Also in regards to a stacked artist view like photos on the ipad. If you can't get artist pics can you just present the stack of that artist's album covers that exist on SBS? I believe that I can more easily recognise an artist by their album covers than by some random pic of the actual artist. (I have seen artist pics on XBMC and I'm not a huge fan.)

I'm very excited about any iPeng/"iPang" release for the iPad. I'm happy to purchase again for the new platform. Thanks for already freeing me from the SBS web interface :)

PS: very happy to live *without* coverflow too.

digitalknight
2010-04-04, 07:00
So what is the current status of the iPeng for iPad? Any new news?

pippin
2010-04-04, 08:48
So what is the current status of the iPeg for iPad? Any new news?
No iPad here, yet, no trying it out, hence no final concept.
As I said before I don't think it makes any sense to develop this on the simulator.
Plus iPeng 1.3 isn't ready, yet.
There are sketches, I've tried a fees things and I do have a preliminary concept but I don't know whether that makes any sense.

digitalknight
2010-04-04, 10:08
No iPad here, yet, no trying it out, hence no final concept.
As I said before I don't think it makes any sense to develop this on the simulator.
Plus iPeng 1.3 isn't ready, yet.
There are sketches, I've tried a fees things and I do have a preliminary concept but I don't know whether that makes any sense.

I thought everyone picked one up yesterday or had one pre-ordered and delivered? ;-)

Anyone try the iPhone iPeng app on the iPad?

pippin
2010-04-04, 14:15
I thought everyone picked one up yesterday or had one pre-ordered and delivered? ;-)

Anyone try the iPhone iPeng app on the iPad?
It's not available in Europe, yet. No date, too.
I did preorder one in the US and it did get delivered yesterday, but it now has to get over here.
Somebody posted in the iPeng support thread in 3rd party plugins about it, you might want to ask him.

ezkcdude
2010-04-05, 16:30
I got my iPad today. So far I have had no luck getting to SqueezeCenter via the Safari browser. I don't have an IPhone, so maybe it doesn't work there either.

iPhone
2010-04-05, 16:38
I got my iPad today. So far I have had no luck getting to SqueezeCenter via the Safari browser. I don't have an IPhone, so maybe it doesn't work there either.

I couldn't get any of my iPhones (owned all three versions) to talk directly to SBS. I got iPeng and have never looked back.

My advice is spend $9.99 at the iTunes App store for iPeng!

I have an iPad question while I have you. Does it have an external USB port? WiFi and 3G cellular suck big time once you have been on 4G for 6 months. I would buy an iPad if I could use my 4G USB transceiver with it. I looked in the specs and couldn't find a USB port.

ezkcdude
2010-04-05, 16:40
I couldn't get any of my iPhones (owned all three versions) to talk directly to SBS. I got iPeng and have never looked back.

My advice is spend $9.99 at the iTunes App store for iPeng!

I have an iPad question while I have you. Does it have an external USB port? WiFi and 3G cellular suck big time once you have been on 4G for 6 months. I would buy an iPad if I could use my 4G USB transceiver with it. I looked in the specs and couldn't find a USB port.

No USB port.

pippin
2010-04-05, 17:46
I got my iPad today. So far I have had no luck getting to SqueezeCenter via the Safari browser. I don't have an IPhone, so maybe it doesn't work there either.

What did you try? Name resolution on iPhone usually doesn't work (at least if you use NetBios instead of Bonjour like some 95% or networks do) so you will probably have to get to your server via it's IP address as in

http://192.168.1.12:9000

Sike
2010-04-07, 23:26
Hey Pippin

I my iPad should be arriving any day from the states. How is iPeng HD coming along :)

BTW: Is it true that I need to set up a US iTunes account to purchase any apps on the iPad?

pippin
2010-04-07, 23:36
I my iPad should be arriving any day from the states. How is iPeng HD coming along :)

Same status. iPad to arrive today :) I don't give ETAs for iPeng versions anymore, but it will be months rather than weeks.


BTW: Is it true that I need to set up a US iTunes account to purchase any apps on the iPad?
I was wondering that myself. There are no iPad Apps on the German iTunes store, at least.
So probably yes if you want to use iPad App Store Apps.

Sike
2010-04-08, 06:00
Same status. iPad to arrive today :) I don't give ETAs for iPeng versions anymore, but it will be months rather than weeks.


Count me in if you want a beta tester. The main reason I am buying a iPad is to control the Squeezeboxes :)

pippin
2010-04-08, 06:15
Update on the App Store:
You can use an European account but you won't be able to use the App Store App (on the device) then and you don't have iPad apps in the European App Store.
Unified apps (that contain an iPad and iPhone version) work, though, you have to transfer them from iTunes.

ericj
2010-04-09, 10:10
Actually Ipeng is not bad zt 2x on the ipad. One thing that does not seem to work: One cannot edit the configuration of options on the bottom bar. For example, one can't replace 'artists' with 'favorites' etc. Dragging seems to work, but it does not replace the previous icon.

Also a small request for ipeng when ported to the ipad. Long classical titles etc. are hard to read when they are truncated. I'm guessing with all the screen real estate that will be an 'ex-problem'

Finally, while I appreciate the many ambitious suggestions in this thread. I think rescaling things for the ipad, with a minimum of new features, would be useful in itself.

Thanks.

pippin
2010-04-09, 14:34
One cannot edit the configuration of options on the bottom bar. For example, one can't replace 'artists' with 'favorites' etc. Dragging seems to work, but it does not replace the previous icon.


This works for me.

markstrom
2010-04-13, 23:40
Update on the App Store:
You can use an European account but you won't be able to use the App Store App (on the device) then and you don't have iPad apps in the European App Store.
Unified apps (that contain an iPad and iPhone version) work, though, you have to transfer them from iTunes.

European iTunes App store contains all iPad apps that is set by the developer to be sold in Europe. The main difference is that you can't browse by iPad apps as you can in the US iTunes Store. But if you search for a name you end up with the result and you can filter to just see iPad apps from there.

markstrom
2010-04-13, 23:41
Actually Ipeng is not bad zt 2x on the ipad. One thing that does not seem to work: One cannot edit the configuration of options on the bottom bar. For example, one can't replace 'artists' with 'favorites' etc. Dragging seems to work, but it does not replace the previous icon.


I had the same problem the first times but now it suddenly works every time.

ezkcdude
2010-04-20, 21:44
What did you try? Name resolution on iPhone usually doesn't work (at least if you use NetBios instead of Bonjour like some 95% or networks do) so you will probably have to get to your server via it's IP address as in

http://192.168.1.12:9000

I wanted to update just to say that this is working now. I'll definitely check out a future iPad specific version of iPeng, though.

Paul Webster
2010-04-21, 01:04
Is amnyone looking at making some small(?) changes to the iPeng web skin to make one that is a bit more suited to the increased space on iPad?
Getting something working a bit better than the iPhone-format one is probably a lot quicker than the native iPeng for iPad and could be done by others while Pippin is busy on the native stuff.

pippin
2010-04-21, 01:21
Actually I did think about that, too.
The iPeng skin with SBS 76. is quite fast on iPad.
One could fix the Apps/Music Services, too while doing this, it's a single-line-of code change, but then there's all this packaging and repo updating....

el payo
2010-05-10, 01:53
Hey Pippin,

When (and if) you need any iPad beta testers sign me up. I'm currently using iPeng at 2x and it's nice - though I sometimes just use the web interface.

On that note (using the web interface on iPad): I wish Logitech would add an apple-touch-icon.png to the server so the icon on the iPad looked a bit more "Squeezboxish".

el payo
2010-05-10, 01:53
Hey Pippin,

When (and if) you need any iPad beta testers sign me up. I'm currently
using iPeng at 2x and it's nice - though I sometimes just use the web
interface.

On that note (using the web interface on iPad): I wish Logitech would
add an apple-touch-icon.png to the server so the icon on the iPad
looked a bit more "Squeezboxish".


--
el payo

SliMP3
[Squeezebox -> upgraded to Squeezebox G -> sold]
Squeezebox 3
Boom
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Adiomat
2010-05-10, 06:14
Count me in if you want a beta tester. The main reason I am buying a iPad is to control the Squeezeboxes :)

same to me...it is obviously the best looking remote-control every. But - i have to wait till the end of may, myself. i am in germany here..and we are not the very early adaptors, right :-)
anyhow...i wanna control my SBs and doing some webbrowsing. So - the focus for me is definatly IPENG too..

malo

Version: 7.5.0 - r30464 @ Thu Apr 1 07:44:56 MDT 2010
QNAP TurboStation TS-239PROII / 3.2.3 build 0209T with ssots 4.8 running
2* SB3, firmware 130

Adiomat
2010-05-10, 06:14
Sike;531656 Wrote:
> Count me in if you want a beta tester. The main reason I am buying a
> iPad is to control the Squeezeboxes :)

same to me...it is obviously the best looking remote-control every. But
- i have to wait till the end of may, myself. i am in germany here..and
we are not the very early adaptors, right :-)
anyhow...i wanna control my SBs and doing some webbrowsing. So - the
focus for me is definatly IPENG too..

malo

Version: 7.5.0 - r30464 @ Thu Apr 1 07:44:56 MDT 2010
QNAP TurboStation TS-239PROII / 3.2.3 build 0209T with ssots 4.8
running
2* SB3, firmware 130


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mherger
2010-05-10, 06:19
On that note (using the web interface on iPad): I wish Logitech would add an apple-touch-icon.png to the server so the icon on the iPad looked a bit more "Squeezboxish".

What icon are you refering to?

mherger
2010-05-10, 06:19
el payo;545109 Wrote:
> On that note (using the web interface on iPad): I wish Logitech would
> add an apple-touch-icon.png to the server so the icon on the iPad
> looked a bit more "Squeezboxish".

What icon are you refering to?


--
mherger

Michael

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pippin
2010-05-10, 06:59
What icon are you refering to?

The one you see when you put a bookmark to your server on the iPad's start screen.

pippin
2010-05-10, 06:59
mherger;545164 Wrote:
> What icon are you refering to?

The one you see when you put a bookmark to your server on the iPad's
start screen.


--
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el payo
2010-05-10, 15:12
What icon are you refering to?

When adding Squeezebox Server to the home screen, by default the iPhone/iPad creates an "icon" that is really just a mini view of the open window in Mobile Safari.

Apple has a specification for servers/web pages to specify a default image which Mobile Safari can use to generate an icon for the home screen:

http://developer.apple.com/safari/library/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/ConfiguringWebApplications/ConfiguringWebApplications.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002051-CH3-SW4

I've tried dropping my own version of the Squeezebox Server favicon into every directory I can think of but I'm not sure what the root directory for Squeezebox Server is, so I'm stuck with the autogenerated (read:fugly) icon.

I've included an example apple-touch-icon.png vs. something like what Mobile Safari currently uses - a downsampled screen grab. (on the iPhone the icons have rounded corners, drop shadow and reflective shine automatically added by the OS so that it coordinates with the built-in icons)

el payo
2010-05-17, 10:09
See this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78832

Thanks Michael!

jonbauer
2010-05-18, 11:03
So pippin...

Any ETA on iPeng for iPad? Waiting with baited breath...!

- Jon

pippin
2010-05-18, 12:17
No ETAs anymore. Maybe when the d..n playback woks nicely I will risk a prediction again.

jonbauer
2010-05-18, 13:00
Not sure what that d...n playback refers to, but I'm guessing that its relating to playback on the local device... I vote you table that feature and get iPad support going so that we can take advantage of the iPad screen real estate!!! Please!?

- Jon

JayLaFunk
2010-05-19, 01:20
My iPad gets delivered next week, will I be able to view my iPeng app that I bought for my iPod Touch on it or do I need to wait for the new iPeng for iPad ?

Jay

jimzak
2010-05-19, 03:14
My iPad gets delivered next week, will I be able to view my iPeng app that I bought for my iPod Touch on it or do I need to wait for the new iPeng for iPad ?

iPeng will work but it will be small on the big screen unless you double size it and then it looks pixelated.

JayLaFunk
2010-05-19, 03:19
iPeng will work but it will be small on the big screen unless you double size it and then it looks pixelated.

Cheers for the answer, I was looking forward to showing off iPeng on my iPad with the artwork, is there any other app that will do the same but show full screen ?

Jay

Ron Olsen
2010-05-19, 04:27
High-quality artwork (500x500 or larger) looks great on iPeng (2x mode) on the iPad.

jimzak
2010-05-19, 17:26
Ron's correct.

Nice artwork looks decent.

The app itself is a little crude looking.

But, hey, it works. I'm glad to have it.

wahiggins3
2010-05-20, 05:59
I used to run iPeng on my my original iPhone way back in the day. I now have an iPad and like many of you, I am very interested in a App to control SqueezeServer from my iPad.

@pippin - Let me know if you need any help? Please keep us posted on your progress.

cunobelinus
2010-05-20, 23:58
It's going to cook, too? Wow!

On 18 May 2010, at 20:17, pippin wrote:

>
> No ETAs anymore. Maybe when the d..n playback woks nicely I will risk a
> prediction again.
>

guidovilla
2010-05-21, 00:17
Not sure what that d...n playback refers to, but I'm guessing that its relating to playback on the local device... I vote you table that feature and get iPad support going so that we can take advantage of the iPad screen real estate!!! Please!?

- Jon

+1!

Guido

digitalknight
2010-05-22, 20:00
+1!

Guido

+2 (and a million to save everyone else from having to add to this) ;-)

Sike
2010-05-28, 01:14
@Pippin: Do you have an estimate for a release date?

I know software devs don't like to guess release dates :)

JulianL
2010-05-28, 02:12
I just got my iPad yesterday (I'm in the UK so one of the first) and I was disappointed to discover that none of the skins format properly in iPad Safari (and I now see that this was a well known issue). I'll be following iPeng-for-iPad progress with great interest and, once I've given it more thought and got more of a feel for the iPad, might even have ideas to contribute.

My big question right now though is, when the iPad version does come out, is the plan to make it a universal app (the ones with the "+" against them in the app store so that the user only needs to buy the app once and can then run it on both his/her iPhone and iPad) or will there be separate iPhone and iPad versions (e.g. both iPeng and iPeng HD apps in the app store)?

I don't have an iPhone but if the iPad development is leading towards a universal app then I would seriously consider taking a leap of faith and buying the iPhone app now in anticipation of it going universal in the future and at that point hopefully seeing big improvements on the iPad.

- Julian

mherger
2010-05-28, 02:24
> I just got my iPad yesterday (I'm in the UK so one of the first) and I
> was disappointed to discover that none of the skins format properly in
> iPad Safari (and I now see that this was a well known issue).

_None_ of them? Which ones did you test? I know about issues with the Default skin, but would have expected the others to be less sensitive.

Feel free to vote for bug 16051.

--

Michael

pippin
2010-05-28, 04:42
My big question right now though is, when the iPad version does come out, is the plan to make it a universal app (the ones with the "+" against them in the app store so that the user only needs to buy the app once and can then run it on both his/her iPhone and iPad) or will there be separate iPhone and iPad versions (e.g. both iPeng and iPeng HD apps in the app store)?

When? - I don't give estimates anymore.
Universal App? No guarantees taken but here's the forward plan:

1. Finish playback in iPeng for iPhone
2. Do a unified version for iPeng that will work natively on iPad but have more or less the same UI as the iPhone App.
3. Do a dedicated "iPeng for iPad" with a significantly different and iPad-optimized user interface.

#3 will be a separate app, not an update to iPeng but that one is still a few months out.


I don't have an iPhone but if the iPad development is leading towards a universal app then I would seriously consider taking a leap of faith and buying the iPhone app now in anticipation of it going universal in the future and at that point hopefully seeing big improvements on the iPad.


Well, the "real" iPad development will be a separate app. It will be quite a bit different from the iPhone version, there are things you want to do on iPad that you can't do on iPhone.


_None_ of them? Which ones did you test? I know about issues with the Default skin, but would have expected the others to be less sensitive.


EN works. All others have one quirk or the other.

JulianL
2010-05-28, 04:59
Thanks for the replies. I should of course have said "if or when". I most definitely realise there are no certainties in life, thank you (Pippin) for at least giving your current thoughts on future plans. I completely understand that things can change dramatically but it's at least good to hear what you hope will happen even if things don't turn out that way or take far, far longer than expected (or never happen at all).

Re the skins, I think I need to go and retest. Last night was my first few hours with the iPad and unfortunately one thing I discovered is that the stories about WiFi issues are most definitely true, I was having a horrible time with it, so some of my bad skin experiences might have been down to connection glitches and not the skin. I think I've improved matters now via a change to my router so I'll play a bit more tonight.

My guess is that I'll jump in and purchase iPeng if and when the unified app with the iPhone-derived UI hits the appstore and then probably make a second purchase of any follow up "iPeng for iPad" app that might arrive at some later date. Controlling my SqueezeCenter is one of the key things I bought my iPad for so it seems a bit stupid to not be willing to invest what is necessary (within reason) to get the best software for the job.

- Julian

panos_k75
2010-05-28, 05:22
its obvious that is getting too much work for just an individual to manage. I am also surprised that Slimdevices themselves do not seem that interested in developing an interface for the iPhone or iPad. I believe Sonos will be the first again on the market for this.

evitkus
2010-05-28, 10:21
Dedicated buttons for play, pause, next, random, etc on the same page.

Take advantage of the real estate to put everything on one screen instead of having to swipe.


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m1abrams
2010-05-28, 10:24
its obvious that is getting too much work for just an individual to manage. I am also surprised that Slimdevices themselves do not seem that interested in developing an interface for the iPhone or iPad. I believe Sonos will be the first again on the market for this.

I thought Sonos already had a inhouse built iphone app.

panos_k75
2010-05-28, 12:23
they do...i was referring to the iPad.

m1abrams
2010-05-28, 13:02
they do...i was referring to the iPad.

Oh heck I would bet money Sonos beats Squeezebox to the iPad!

jimzak
2010-05-30, 04:20
I'd like to plug the iPeng app for the iPad.

iPeng works pretty well and purchasing it will help the author to develop the ultimate iPad app.

xxxomxxx
2010-06-01, 05:49
Hi

there is a Swiss App called "Radios". It lists local Internet Radios, as a Song is played Album Art and information is automatically pulled. Also photos are made up as a art page, kinda like moving pics in the photo app. That would be a nice feature..

mortslim
2010-06-05, 09:03
I'd like to plug the iPeng app for the iPad.

I second the motion. I just got an iPad. I previously had a first generation iPod Touch. The Touch is on my "G" wireless network. I have a simultaneous dual-band router from Linksys. I put the iPad on the "N" network.

I synced up my iPeng app to the iPad. Voila !! Instant gratification !!!

The existing iPeng app works great on the iPad. I have set the app at "2x" size. The app fills the entire screen. It works exactly the same as on my iPad Touch.

And also a plug for the iPad. In one minute with my new toy, I am spoiled. This is just so much more fun than my iPod Touch. Faster network "n". Bigger screen. Faster operating system on the iPad.

iPad = great
existing iPeng app on the iPad = great

Get the iPad
Get iPeng now.

Have fun !!

JayLaFunk
2010-06-05, 09:53
The existing iPeng app works great on the iPad. I have set the app at "2x" size. The app fills the entire screen.

iPeng is a great app and looks fantastic on my iPod Touch, I also have an iPad, I don't know how you can say it looks great on the iPad, my text and album artwork are all blurred, what have you done for the "2X" size to make it look good?

mortslim
2010-06-05, 17:05
what have you done for the "2X" size to make it look good?

Just using the app as is.

Well, I agree it's not photographer "tack" sharp. But then again, I am not what photographers would call a "pixel peeper".

Compared to what I anticipated before getting my iPad, I am very happy with it.

I guess my opinion is based upon my expectations. I didn't expect much and thus what I see now easily beats my expectations.

I look at iPeng as a functional app that is intended to control my squeezeboxes, not a "pretty eye candy" app. It controls my squeezeboxes much better than Logitech's own web based remote controller.

When I press and hold on the Now Playing screen on the iPad, I can then see flickr photos related to what is playing. Those photos are just as good as seeing them on the flickr site itself (which I assume is what I am seeing).

As far as album art in 2x mode, could it be sharper? Yes
But is the album art viewable? Yes

As far as text in 2x mode, looks fine to me.
It's not blurry in my opinion.
Could the text be sharper? Yes
Is the text readable as is? Yes

Of course when the app is updated for higher resolution for use on the iPad, I am sure it will look that much better but I really am happy with it now as is using the existing app.

Chunkywizard
2010-06-06, 03:01
I just got an iPad as well. I agree that iPeng is useable, but it would be nice to be prettier! One request, can you please make it work in landscape as well as portrait? At the moment it only works in portrait and I am currently using my iPad mostly in landscape.

Thanks

CW

pippin
2010-06-06, 09:32
Prettier is what I'm working on, landscape is a "probably not". I still did dot find out what's keeping iPeng from working in landscape mode on iPhone and so far it's not working on iPad, too.
If it's the NowPlaying screen than this might solve it since that one's going away on iPad but I don't know that yet.
iPeng for iPad will definitely work in landscape, that one will get a lot of new UI.

epoch1970
2010-06-13, 16:30
So I got an iPad, I'm eagerly waiting for iPeng on iPad.
Since I will also replace my old phone with the new iPhone I thought of buying iPeng right away. However, I see it is somehow optimiert für SBS 7.4/7.5...

I live happily with old faithful SC 7.3.4, and I maintain 3 households under the same version.
Does iPeng do less with SC 7.3 than it does with the latest-and-greatest version of the server ?

Did I mention I got an iPad, and I'm eagerly waiting for iPeng on iPad ?

pippin
2010-06-14, 11:10
Well, obviously all the new features it provides with 7.4/7.5 won't be there, especially all the context menu stuff.
Support for 7.3 will also not get better in the future, even today it's very, very hard to stay compatible with several versions of the server.

Husted
2010-06-14, 12:01
iPeng is a great app and looks fantastic on my iPod Touch, I also have an iPad, I don't know how you can say it looks great on the iPad, my text and album artwork are all blurred, what have you done for the "2X" size to make it look good?

There's an extension available for the iPad called FullForce, it will scale up iPhone apps much much better than the default 2x.
It's only available if you jailbrake your iPad which is very simple and doesn't require any skills whatsoever. Well, except a bit of googling to find the download page but with a bit of Spirit you'll find it...
Using FullForce on iPeng solves the fussiness but there's a bit of a layout problem.

boatnanny
2010-06-15, 21:51
When? - I don't give estimates anymore.
Universal App? No guarantees taken but here's the forward plan:

1. Finish playback in iPeng for iPhone
2. Do a unified version for iPeng that will work natively on iPad but have more or less the same UI as the iPhone App.
3. Do a dedicated "iPeng for iPad" with a significantly different and iPad-optimized user interface.

#3 will be a separate app, not an update to iPeng but that one is still a few months out.


Well, the "real" iPad development will be a separate app. It will be quite a bit different from the iPhone version, there are things you want to do on iPad that you can't do on iPhone.


EN works. All others have one quirk or the other.

An interface similar to sooloos would be great, all ipeng needs is slight ajustments for the ipads bigger screen,only trouble i have wiht iphone is the little alfabet next to the albums.

pippin
2010-06-15, 23:24
all ipeng needs is slight ajustments for the ipads bigger screen,

No. I've tried "small adjustments", it looks awful. You don't want that.
You need a pretty much completely new UI on iPad, there are few views that will stay the same.


only trouble i have wiht iphone is the little alfabet next to the albums.
Trouble as in "you don't like it" or as in "doesn't work"? The latter should not be in iPeng 1.2 or later except for cases where the server delivers a wrong sorting (happens with some releases and certain codepage combinations).

epoch1970
2010-06-18, 00:27
Using iPeng on iPad, I find a bit too easy to interrupt an audio stream by an accidental tap, when the only thing I intended was to put my finger on the surface and swipe.
I have this issue with some other apps; Newspapers or magazines that have kept a margin in their page layout seem easier to manipulate to me.

What about keeping a reserved area for navigation on the various screens? (The other option I see is to convert single taps to double taps for actions that interrupt the music stream, but I fear that would be a bit obnoxious.)

pippin
2010-06-18, 07:08
The obvious and recommended option (by Apple) which I will use is to move the controls from the bottom to the top of the screen.

epoch1970
2010-06-18, 11:41
Mhh. All right.
To be more precise, I was able to interrupt/change song when trying to flip from the playlist to player control. I guess I'm clumsy. But it's not like I am landing my fingers right over the play/pause button...

I shall see.

boatnanny
2010-06-19, 20:09
No. I've tried "small adjustments", it looks awful. You don't want that.
You need a pretty much completely new UI on iPad, there are few views that will stay the same.

Trouble as in "you don't like it" or as in "doesn't work"? The latter should not be in iPeng 1.2 or later except for cases where the server delivers a wrong sorting (happens with some releases and certain codepage combinations).

1ST LOVE IT, ITS WHAT MAKES SERCHING FOR ALBUMS SO QUICK,AS OPPOSE TO THE TOUCH CONTROLLER WHERE YOU NEED TO SCROLL THROUGH THE WHOLE ALBUM LIST,CHOOSING "YOU CAN DANCE" BY MADONNA IS TEDIOUS ON THE CONTROLLER AND i ONLY HAVE 500 CD'S.
2ND IT WORKS, ONLY THE SIZE OF THE IPHONE MAKES THE LETTERS TOO SMALL FOR MY BIG FINGERS.
In the end I suspect whatever you come up with will be great in the same way i peng is great for I PHONE is great.
As a summary to other comments on this post:
The I PHONE app is a great way to control a multi room system the more zones the more help it provides.
The I PAD i would only have in the main listening area, for me it would be particularly helpful when entertaining, the bigger screen making it far easier for those that may be unfamiliar with the interfaceto control/choose music.
As for front&back covers,lyrics,liner notes&other facts SOOLOOS does all this maybe that's why a basic system is so expensive surely it can't be the hardware alone no matter how pretty.
I PENG is a great remote, maybe it should just stay at that.
Regardless of what you come up with I'm sure it will be great I look forward to it.
I bought an I PHONE exclusiely for I PENG, If I get an I PAD it will only be for I PENG.

REGARDS
MAX

markstrom
2010-06-20, 02:00
The obvious and recommended option (by Apple) which I will use is to move the controls from the bottom to the top of the screen.

I guess that would be ok for an audio app. I hate it in video apps since your hand is over the video.

Chunkywizard
2010-06-22, 09:52
Sonos have just released their iPad optomised controller. See:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/sonos-controller-for-ipad-multi-room-music-dictation-supersize/

CW

Jeff Flowerday
2010-06-22, 09:56
Sonos have just released their iPad optomised controller. See:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/sonos-controller-for-ipad-multi-room-music-dictation-supersize/

CW

No they didn't. It's not available till August.

illusion8055
2010-06-22, 10:57
Well you get a good view of what they did with their app interface wise on that vid. Looks yummy! This might push me to pick up an iPad hehehe

pippin
2010-06-22, 11:03
Looks yummy!

You think so? Some nice graphics and putting the main menu into a small part of the window? Looks like I really should just have done the very simple port for iPeng :)

epoch1970
2010-06-22, 13:25
You think so? Some nice graphics and putting the main menu into a small part of the window? Looks like I really should just have done the very simple port for iPeng :)
Agreed.
We expect much, much more from you, Pippin :)

BTW, I read a few days ago in this forum (may be DIY, rather ?) about a really nice looking electronic frame hack. I confess having bought the $30 ipad stand, and its only usage is when I run the iPad in picture mode, which is not often. (*)
Would you consider adding some sort of cover mode, devoid of any controls ? (Not of the highest priority, I guess)


(*) For those interested, the iPad dock is *not* compatible with the Apple iPad case (the black microfiber sleeve). The sleeve's seams protrude and you can't plug the iPad in the dock... The sleeve is a tight fit, so you don't want to take the iPad in and out of it just to use the dock. Just buy one or the other...

boatnanny
2010-06-22, 13:42
Sonos have just released their iPad optomised controller. See:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/sonos-controller-for-ipad-multi-room-music-dictation-supersize/

CW

It looks like a copy of IPENG,three screens displayed on the one.

REGARDS

foolio
2010-06-25, 23:32
How will we be notified when the app is available? If it's a universal app we'll find out on our iPad that an update is ready but I thought I read earlier in the thread that it might not be universal.

Will this thread be updated or is there some other thread to subscribe to?

pippin
2010-06-26, 00:40
I'll probably write something in this thread plus you can have an occasional look at penguinlovesmusic.com

dizzysnakepilot
2010-06-27, 12:30
I'd like the interface to be less mode oriented, that is, having to keep track of which screen I am in to perform an operation. This might look like a single main screen, rather than the 4 or more main screens in the iPod version.

The multiple screens works ok once you internalize their relationship by swipes, but i like to give the controller to a guest and say 'put anything on', which then means I have to stand there and say, 'hit the blue pentagon for this' and 'swipe this way for that function'

I think an interface that is easy to use for a novice might also be more convenient for power users as well.

Thanks!

mortslim
2010-06-27, 14:27
easy to use for a novice

I disagree with that. I don't think the GUI should be dummied down.

The benefit of the iPad is the bigger screen so although more information can be put onto it simultaneously, at a certain point it becomes too cluttered if too much is seen at once.

On the other hand, I don't know if it is possible to have a "settings" panel where the user can choose which panels and modes are visible at any one time, then each user can customize to their own preferences.

Bottom line, I vote for an interface which works for anyone who reads the manual rather than for someone who has never used it before.

And once the first song is picked, hopefully the new user will "get it" anyway, so it becomes a non-issue.

pippin
2010-06-27, 15:50
Well, as I've stated before I also don't believe that the most easy to understand UI is always the best one because given a lack of space or complexity you want to display at a time it means deep menus, lots of dialogs and generally a slower use. Which is inefficient and annoying for long-term users.

iPeng is supposed to be used long term.

That said: some of the issues mentioned here _will_ go away on iPad. There is no need to swipe between subpages, there's enough space for controls to show up a playlist or a list of players/music sources.
There's also enough space to permanently show basic player controls so there is no need for a NowPlaying screen.
A lot of things will be easier because instead of grouping functions in different screens you can group them in different areas of the screen.

That said: the first incarnation of iPeng will not go much further than doing that plus making appropriate views for iPad. Long term, however, I believe there are even much better things you can do with that UI because iPad has the potential to show DIFFERENT elements that are RELATED simultaneously. The most obvious one of these is probably a current playlist to which you can drag an item from the library but there's even more to this then that.
I believe it will take some time until the full potential of the iPad get's exploited and I'm not only speaking about iPeng here.

jonbauer
2010-06-27, 22:43
pippin! Rock on! Can't wait!!!

- Jon

havoc1
2010-06-29, 15:34
Drag and drop alone will be a massive step forward. It always irritates me that the Squeezebox server web UI doesn't support it.

JulianL
2010-07-02, 18:00
How will we be notified when the app is available? If it's a universal app we'll find out on our iPad that an update is ready but I thought I read earlier in the thread that it might not be universal.

Will this thread be updated or is there some other thread to subscribe to?
As well as posting on this thread, could you also arrange to push out an update to the iPhone app at about the same time as the iPad release, even if the iPhone update is only fixing a few typos or other trivial stuff.

I don't know about others but I do read the description of what's new in an update so pushing an iPhone update would give the opportunity to put something in the "what's new" text to reference that an iPad version is available. I don't know if the AppStore police would block a blatant announcement but, if they do, then Pippin could maybe contrive some change like "Reworded error message <x> for better consistency with just-released iPeng HD for the iPad".

- Julian

pufnstuf
2010-07-03, 01:04
one of these is probably a current playlist to which you can drag an item from the library but there's even more to this then that.

Drag and drop songs in the iPeng for iPad version?! I'm so excited I think a little bit of pee just came out!! :)

nathan_h
2010-07-05, 22:48
One thing that gets me down about existing interfaces is an inability to do more complex searches. For example, say I want to listen to The Kinks, but not one of my lossy files, only a lossless file, and nothing later than 1970. Love to see the new real estate make searches like that possible -- like filtering results.

pippin
2010-07-05, 22:59
Filtering is one thing I've got on the roadmap for iPad (although probably not for a 1.0) but searching for more details doesn't depend on the user interface but on the database query capabilities.

goody
2010-07-06, 04:52
Picked up an ipad yesterday. Add one more person looking forward to your iPad version.

VirusKiller
2010-07-06, 05:23
In my opinion there are three important areas which, if addressed, will make this a knock-out app:

1) Filtering is essential when you have a fair idea what you want (I emailed the following suggestion to Joerg back in January).

For instance, I'm tagging my FLAC files with multiple genres (e.g. Joel;Blues;Delta Blues). I would love to be able to filter music by multiple genre. e.g. First select "Joel" (which filters out all my partner's albums), then "Blues" (broad "Blues" genre). You get the idea.

2) A picture tells a thousand words! Human beings are visual animals and our primary cues are visual. As much album art as possible please! I think that taking a leaf out of the Sooloos book makes a lot of sense. Clearly the iPad screen is smaller than the 17" Sooloos Control 10, but if the album art is a bit smaller, then I'm sure the same effect can be achieved. The image below is much smaller than the iPad screen!

http://www.meridian-audio.com/sooloos/img/experience/images/interface.jpg

3) Finding music to listen to when you *don't* know what you want is critical. I agree that randomization is important.

I would love to:

- Display a page of random album art.
- Hold down my finger on one "pivot" album and get a pop-up menu.
- Select "View more albums from this year" or "from this genre" or "by this artist".
- iPeng then displays a new page of album art (randomized) based on the user's choice (leaving the pivot album in the same position as it was on the first screen).
- User can swipe the page up/down in the likely event that there are more albums than will fit on a single page. (Paginating rather than scrolling would allow the pivot album to remain in the same place on the new page.)
- This process could be continued ad-infinitem with maybe one "previous page" step.

I'm really looking forward to the iPad version - it was one of the main reasons I bought an iPad!

Thanks,
Joel (Silber)

nathan_h
2010-07-06, 07:29
Filtering is one thing I've got on the roadmap for iPad (although probably not for a 1.0) but searching for more details doesn't depend on the user interface but on the database query capabilities.

Does that mean you can't really implement robust filtering unless Logitech puts it into their server code?

nathan_h
2010-07-06, 07:31
2) a picture tells a thousand words! Human beings are visual animals and our primary cues are visual. As much album art as possible please! I think that taking a leaf out of the sooloos book makes a lot of sense. Clearly the ipad screen is smaller than the 17" sooloos control 10, but if the album art is a bit smaller, then i'm sure the same effect can be achieved. The image below is much smaller than the ipad screen!

http://www.meridian-audio.com/sooloos/img/experience/images/interface.jpg



+1

pippin
2010-07-06, 08:35
Does that mean you can't really implement robust filtering unless Logitech puts it into their server code?

Depends on what I want to filter.
My comment was probably unclear:
I CAN (and will) do filtering (although it will be a real challenge for a weak server because it means I need to cache much more than now).
But I can not search for things for which there is no search interface in SBS

SadGamerGeek
2010-07-06, 11:11
Another vote from me for "As much album art as possible please!"

I'm really looking forward to this - like others, this was something I had in mind when buying my iPad....,

nathan_h
2010-07-07, 09:14
Depends on what I want to filter.
My comment was probably unclear:
I CAN (and will) do filtering (although it will be a real challenge for a weak server because it means I need to cache much more than now).
But I can not search for things for which there is no search interface in SBS

Cool. Then searching or filtering by file type (eg FLAC) will be possible though perhaps not by "lossless".

Not sure if my server is weak (p4 3ghz single core Win7 4g RAM) but I guess I will find out.

Hopefully there will be an option to see the results as songs list OR as a list of albums (with covers as you may have guessed from all the comments). I hate how on the classic interface I use the advanced search to seek out everything by The Kills I have as flac and get back a list of 20 songs instead of getting an option to get back a list of just the two albums.

cornflakeguy
2010-07-07, 19:10
Add me to the list of people who will GET an iPad to have iPeng on it.

guidovilla
2010-07-08, 02:23
A vote for: "as less album art as possible!" :-)

Or, at least, the capability to exploit the screen real estate if you don't have album art.

Bye
Guido

PS: my iPad is coming, I hope I'll be able to install iPeng HD ASAP! After all, it's the only software I bought the iPad for...

Jeff Flowerday
2010-07-08, 07:11
I vote for performance over bling. Art is nice but too much or too large will have a huge performance penalty.

nathan_h
2010-07-08, 08:52
I vote for performance over bling. Art is nice but too much or too large will have a huge performance penalty.

Really? I don't think they are mutually exclusive, and in those cases where they are, one could toggle back and forth.

The big performance hit seems to be server side processing of data about the music (caching; searching; updating) which has little to do with bling, and lots to do with basic functionality.

So I guess the option to turn off cover art is useful for people running with a NAS instead of a server.

---------------------

Or maybe the "quasi" high end look and feel and functionality market is not what iPeng on the iPad is, in part, going after. Which is fine. It cannot be all things to all users.

Seems like there *is* a market for a super slick, very pretty iPad interface for SBS that gives one the experience of a dedicated device (think Sooloos or Sonos) but at a fraction of the cost (think $30 instead of $3000).

-----------

Sure, there should be other choices for an interface, or at least a way to toggle features that suck resources (where possible, such as album art if it's a hog; probably cannot turn off search and filter features even though they are a hog!). But here are some ideas selected almost at random.

This is not quite as pretty as one would like -- couldn't it be a cover flow instead of a grid? -- but gets at a simple interface for the top level or second to top level.

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/908soo.2.jpg

This is perhaps a little better conceptually, if you want to make digging through menus and screens a thing of the past for most functions, since it lets you see the collection and the now playing info, all at once (assuming both boxes can fit on one tablet and I think they can). In fact, that might be an interesting design choice: frames, where some stuff never changes (like "now playing" and or a "collection/library cover art" window) and some stuff does.

http://www.senseworks.com/images/MscSvrGui_lrg.jpg

And of course everyone wants to use and see the queue. This one is uninspired but fully functional.

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/908soo.4.jpg

nathan_h
2010-07-08, 08:58
At or near the top level: A super simple option, like this, perhaps with a more complex set of options that drops down when one holds one's figure on the screen (kind of like how the Kindle app is very simple but if you want you can toggle the controls over the book's text):

http://www.houstonmediasolutions.com/wordpress/wp-content/slideshow_content/music.png

Of course, the ability to drill down into album details is going to be very nice. In fact, it would be nice to think of the iPad as the REPLACEMENT for having the CD case and cover art and liner notes etc. in one's hand while listening. I know that's not quite possible yet because liner notes etc are not part of the standard image archives online, so people don't have copies of them, and because SBS doesn't serve them up. But conceptually, that would be a nice way to treat the interface for when an album is playing.

Instead of liner notes, perhaps each links to online sources like wikipedia entries for an artist would be the rough equivalent for now.

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/908soo.3.jpg

And then, of course, there is all the computerlike functionality that this setup can offer. IE, I cannot re-order all the CDs on my wall, but I can do that with the server:

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/908soo.blurfocus.jpg

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/908soo.5.jpg

nathan_h
2010-07-08, 08:59
Other interface ideas? Maybe something like this, though it's slightly too simplified and inefficient in its use of screen real estate. I'm not saying the whole screen must be filled, of course. Negative space can be very impactful. But this doesn't feel deliberate or balanced.

http://igs.avhub.com.au/IgnitionSuite/uploads/images/IgnitionSuite_Image(8412).jpg

Consider this, which is cheesy in terms of graphic design, but in terms of an interface covers many of the bases in a relatively simple manner. It is a little too "full" feeling, but that's largely the unfortunate color and font choices, rather than a layout problem.

http://www.audioholics.com/images/qsonixq100interface.jpg

This one is more balanced, though it's a little oversimplified because of the screen size.

http://www.linuxfordevices.com/files/misc/pinnacle_audio_athenaeum_screenshot-sm.jpg

nathan_h
2010-07-08, 09:00
This one is text heavy but doesn't feel too bad.

http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page/sonos-software-1-lg.jpg

This one is deathly dumb but doesn't misstep at all. Better too simple than too quirky. Or, at least, put the quirkeness a step lower than the main interface -- so us geeks can dive in when we want, but it's not a part of every interaction. Sometimes, after a couple beers, it's much better for me if I don't dive into the details!

http://www.avrev.com/images/stories/feature/ipad/apple-ipad-itunes.jpg

This one is on the border of too much text and too many details for an easy finger-based interface.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/MediaMonkey3_screenshot.png

nathan_h
2010-07-08, 09:02
I'd hope to avoid something simple ugly like these, though they are functional, so conceptually it's not totally off. But their clunkiness is a turn off, especially the second one.

http://www.tweekgeek.com/images/CES09/Nuforce01.jpg

http://www.audiofederation.com/hifiing/2006/HE2006/report/500/floor2/salon211/IMG_9505.jpg

nathan_h
2010-07-08, 09:04
And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE save us from things like these!

http://www.dansdata.com/images/mp101/server.gif

http://www.channld.com/pv3pr2dT.jpg

http://www.djlosch.com/pics/articles/phpmp2_screen.jpg

Nostromo
2010-07-09, 08:52
Don't worry, I'm sure it will be a magical, revolutionary app. ;-)

bluegaspode
2010-07-09, 09:05
At least all (but one) of your suggestions have one thing in common: they are landscape.

So thats a starting point :D

pippin
2010-07-09, 09:34
At least all (but one) of your suggestions have one thing in common: they are landscape.

So thats a starting point :D

That's an interesting point.
Actually I do have nice design schemes for both landscape and portrait.
Landscape is simpler from a "how-do-I-layout-this-stuff" point of view, yet I do find myself using my iPad in portrait mode most of the time and I also find that I hate the split view controller for moving the left-hand-pane into that overlay menu. So now you know about one thing iPeng will not have: a left-hand pane showing in an overlay (actually for it's other limitations I will not even use the split view controller but that's probably an aspect few non-developers will even notice).

Now for the question to you iPad owners: how do YOU use your iPad?

JayLaFunk
2010-07-09, 12:36
That's an interesting point.
Now for the question to you iPad owners: how do YOU use your iPad?

Portrait 99%, Landscape 1%

bluegaspode
2010-07-09, 13:12
Landscape 99%, Portrait 1%

VirusKiller
2010-07-09, 13:22
All landscape apart from iPhone apps that won't play ball. I have the Apple case and use it like this:

http://storeimages.apple.com/1718/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/MC361_AV2?wid=185&hei=185&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp

Even without the case, I'd be 95% landscape.

Edit: Portrait pretty much only for books.

Chunkywizard
2010-07-09, 13:54
I'm 90% landscape as well. I like the extra width in a lot of the apps, eg. Mail, Gmail, etc.

CW

boatnanny
2010-07-09, 16:34
lanscape,only use portrait with apps that won't support lanscape.

RonD2
2010-07-09, 19:45
50-50 for me.

On a side note, will fast app switching be difficult to implement? Is it planned for the next iPhone release? Using enabled apps on the iPhone has made the iPad OS seem old already! It will make a big difference for iPeng's ease of use. At the top of my want list.

Ron

erland
2010-07-09, 22:37
Now for the question to you iPad owners: how do YOU use your iPad?

It depends what I'm doing and which app I'm using. The apps that really uses the landscape mode to add extra navigation/browse possibilities works really great in landscape mode, for example the IMDb, Wikipanion and Mail apps. When reading longer texts (books, pdf's and similar) and when I'm browsing the web I'm mostly using portrait mode. I suspect the usage is divided approximately 50/50 in my case.

When I think about a Squeezebox controller app, I think landscape mode would be most useful. Squeezebox is more about navigation than reading long texts. So I think you should focus on making the landscape mode great and then just make it work in portrait mode for users that want to use that.

Possibly a reason for portrait mode might be that most docking stations requires it to be in portrait mode. However, personally, I just have it on a stand in landscape mode with a loose cable connected to it. This makes it a lot better Flickr photo frame when not used.

markstrom
2010-07-10, 00:26
Since I got the Apple case I'm using it landscape all the time.

pippin
2010-07-10, 00:59
Interesting. I've got the Apple case, too but mainly use that to have it really stand upright, both in Landscape and portrait mode.
I also use landscape with e.g. mail but I thought so far that's mainly because that overlay mail list sucks.

But Erland is probably right, it's about what you do. I use the iPad a lot for reading stuff hence the portrait.

So focus on landscape first. What a pity, I had this one really, really cool idea that only work in portrait but it's technically difficult anyway so will only go into a second release or so.

Landscape has one drawback, though, for which I don't have a really good solution yet: if you go away from your local library where you have album (and maybe artist) art, you have a lot of hierarchical, textual info on the Squeezebox. This means tables full of text. And wide text tables are just plain ugly on the iPad and hard to read.

Need to get creative here.

RonD2
2010-07-10, 07:30
I can imagine a simple portrait layout with library on the left and current playlist on the right with touch and drag into the playlist as the core capability. I frequently listen to a randomly generated playlist which triggers a desire to add a track or two. I browse for these tracks using the Music Folder file structure which results in long lists making the portrait's length desirable. Don't know if this is commonly done by others. It wouldn't utilize the screen well in landscape but I assume that the layout could change automatically depending on the orientation.

epoch1970
2010-07-10, 13:39
Now for the question to you iPad owners: how do YOU use your iPad?
Depends on the app. For example I think Mail is much better in landscape, because I have several mailboxes.
I also prefer the larger keyboard in landscape.
For reading, surfing portrait is usually better IMHO.
I rotate this thing all the time, actually. Except when it is on its dock, of course.

VirusKiller
2010-07-11, 02:11
I also prefer the larger keyboard in landscape.Great point; this is actually a significant reason for my using landscape for any app where keyboard input is required (e.g. mail, browsing, iPad iPeng searching ;) )

nathan_h
2010-07-12, 11:41
Interesting. I prefer the keyboard in portrait at least 50% of the time.

When I am sitting or reclining on the couch, or in bed, I cannot rest the ipad on a table or my knee or lap, to "touch type" in landscape mode. Why? Because gravity is not working with me in these cases. If I try to touch type by setting it against my knees, it' calls onto my stomach! In short, about half the time I use it, there is no place to rest the iPad and thus I need to hold it in the air.

In those cases, since I have to hold the ipad, I only have my thumbs available for typing -- and the keyboard in landscape mode is too wide for my thumbs! So I hold the iPad in portrait mode for typing.

(Unrelated rant: In general though, I prefer landscape mode, especially since most web pages look better than way. No I don't mean layout-wise, but anti-aliasing-on-text-wise. I hate how the low resolution of the ipad makes reading small text on web pages in portrait mode a slight bit blurry because the pixels aren't quite dense enough for small text.)

Ikabob
2010-07-16, 03:18
Deleted.
Was in the wrong forum. Transferred to the Ipeng support thread. Sorry.

SadGamerGeek
2010-07-16, 04:28
I also have the Apple case. I use 90% landscape, but without it I'd probably still be at least 80%...

carrera
2010-07-16, 07:35
Hi,
my rotation is fixed, and I use ladscape most of the Time (90%)
carrera

Kalanthes
2010-07-17, 13:37
90% in landscape
Because of the Wide screen and Binger Photos/Fonts.

starcat
2010-07-19, 18:02
Any hint when iPeng for iPad would be available and would it show high-res coverart and be anything like this: http://images.apple.com/at/ipad/gallery/images/gallery-software-ipod-20100127.jpg

Please also allow for local caching of all relevant stuff in order to make it instantly responsive with *huge* libraries.

Also, add you may add me as a beta tester.
Currently I am using the latest iPeng for the iPhone.

erland
2010-07-19, 21:40
Any hint when iPeng for iPad would be available and would it show high-res coverart and be anything like this: http://images.apple.com/at/ipad/gallery/images/gallery-software-ipod-20100127.jpg

From post #151 earlier in the thread, sounds like you are looking for option #3.


When? - I don't give estimates anymore.
Universal App? No guarantees taken but here's the forward plan:

1. Finish playback in iPeng for iPhone
2. Do a unified version for iPeng that will work natively on iPad but have more or less the same UI as the iPhone App.
3. Do a dedicated "iPeng for iPad" with a significantly different and iPad-optimized user interface.

#3 will be a separate app, not an update to iPeng but that one is still a few months out.

pippin
2010-07-19, 23:03
Update: #2 is not going to happen because the changes in the UI are too big for a universal app, the unified approach I had simply is not good enough.

Local caching of "all relevant information" doesn't necessarily speed up things, I'll cache more in the future - with both iPeng versions - but speed really depends on your server.
It also does not necessarily depend on library size, except for "search".

Btw, saw your other comment: an iPad app can not use more than 2GB. Flash that rules out full-scale caching of artwork for large libraries.

starcat
2010-07-20, 04:07
Update: #2 is not going to happen because the changes in the UI are too big for a universal app, the unified approach I had simply is not good enough.


I am for option 3. Make it rock solid and price it separately. I think that anyone seriously interested will pay as easily as 20-30$ for it. Perhaps even more if it is as instant and full featured (well almost) like itunes. Huge covers, long scrollable lists, you get the picture.



Local caching of "all relevant information" doesn't necessarily speed up things, I'll cache more in the future - with both iPeng versions - but speed really depends on your server.
It also does not necessarily depend on library size, except for "search".

Btw, saw your other comment: an iPad app can not use more than 2GB. Flash that rules out full-scale caching of artwork for large libraries.

Thanks!

VirusKiller
2010-07-30, 08:37
I'm sorry to bang on about Sooloos, but reading the Squeezepad thread has left me rather uninspired. Squeezepad will do nothing to help me discover my lost music or find the right music to suit my mood. The same is true with iPeng as it stands, with only Genre and Year searches available (which both present the results in an alphabetical list).

The guys who developed the Sooloos concept (before it was acquired by Meridian) seemed to hit the nail on the head. Sadly, even if I could comfortably afford a Sooloos system, Meridian has nothing that would replace my "small" system zones (SB Booms and SB3 attached to an F80). Additionally, Sooloos has several key weaknesses, notably it's closed architecture system with no possibility of 3rd party plug-ins. Which means no BBC iPlayer and no Spotify.

Here's the Sooloos "raison d'être" (my highlighting in bold:



The Meridian Sooloos interface was born out of a simple observation: that as much as we loved all of our music, we didn't listen to much of it. Whether you have 150 albums, or 1500, or 15000, the problem is the same - you only listen to a fraction of your music.
We wondered about this. How could we present your library in a way that would keep it alive, and allow you to enjoy it anew every day?

The Meridian Sooloos user interface first addresses this question at a basic level. We created a fast, rich and engaging visual interface on a full-size touchpanel that makes it easy to capture and share the excitement and enjoyment of music.

The Meridian Sooloos user interface also offers a more sophisticated approach, with a feature we call Focus. As you import your music, the system brings together a great deal of information about every piece, and then gives you a simple but powerful interface to use this 'metadata' to adjust the Focus of how you view your collection.

You'll always find exactly what you're looking for, whatever your mood or intent, quickly and easily.

Whatever the situation - a party or celebration with friends; relaxing on a weekend with the family; quietly enjoying your favourite passages - the Meridian Sooloos interface is made for music.

http://www.meridian-audio.com/sooloos/the-experience.php

My (slightly more than) 2 cents.

erland
2010-07-30, 10:02
I'm sorry to bang on about Sooloos, but reading the Squeezepad thread has left me rather uninspired. Squeezepad will do nothing to help me discover my lost music or find the right music to suit my mood. The same is true with iPeng as it stands, with only Genre and Year searches available (which both present the results in an alphabetical list).


I assume you are mainly missing some search possibilities ?
Or is it the big wall with album covers you are looking for ?

I'm asking since the wall with album covers is something a future version of iPeng/SqueezePad could implement.
However, the search functionallity is more related to Squeezebox Server and possibly some third party plugins. I'm guessing you have already tried the plugins that exists, like for example:
- Biography
- Album Review
- Custom Scan / Custom Browse
- TrackStat
- Dynamic Playlist / SQL Playlist
- MusicIP (bundled with Squeezebox Server but requires external MusicIP application to be used)
- SugarCube (requires MusicIP application)
- Spotify
- Song Info (finds similar artists from LastFM web site)
- Probably some more which doesn't come to mind at the moment

All these are more or less related to enhancing the possibilites to play interesting mixes or finding new or old music you might be interested in.

After you have checked these, I'm interested do get more details regarding exactly which features in Sooloos you are missing.

mortslim
2010-07-30, 21:34
Hopefully it's almost time for "first light".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_light_(astronomy)

Because I can already see the "whites of their eyes" (SqueezePad)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bunker_Hill#.22The_whites_of_their_eyes. 22

"Light This Candle"
http://www1.voanews.com/learningenglish/home/a-23-2006-07-25-voa4-83129427.html

jk12
2010-07-31, 00:56
Please, please for the love of God, incorporate bookmarking or someway to remember the playback position! I squeeze howard stern (4+hrs in one MP3). Problem is if I change to pandora, etc. I can never return to stern where I left off. Incredibly frustrating. Surely there's a way to store position information locally (ipad) so that when opening the file it "recalls" where it left off.

I'd pay $10 for an ipad app that has this functionality. It simply doesn't exist on any platform (windows, android, ios).

jk12
2010-07-31, 01:04
Oh and sweet little baby Jesus in heaven, how about the ability to easily navigate a really long MP3 (ie, a couple hours)? The apps that do provide this ability suck at it. It's kind of a slide the lever and hope you get within 30 min or so. Also, instead of showing the time as 245 (minutes), how about 4:05?

JayLaFunk
2010-07-31, 01:50
Please, please for the love of God, incorporate bookmarking or someway to remember the playback position! I squeeze howard stern (4+hrs in one MP3). Problem is if I change to pandora, etc. I can never return to stern where I left off. Incredibly frustrating. Surely there's a way to store position information locally (ipad) so that when opening the file it "recalls" where it left off.

I'd pay $10 for an ipad app that has this functionality. It simply doesn't exist on any platform (windows, android, ios).

Ticket #139 (new Feature request)

Opened 10 months ago

Last modified 8 months ago
File Bookmarking
Reported by: Jay La Funk Assigned to:
Priority: major Milestone:
Component: Native application - Performance Version: 1.1.2
Keywords: Cc:
Description ¶

Would love to have the ability to bookmark MP3 files (Audiobooks, podcasts, etc) in the ipeng application so that it remembers where you stopped and you return to the exact same mark when you close and restart the file in the app.

Jay

jk12
2010-07-31, 02:13
Ticket #139 (new Feature request)

Opened 10 months ago

Last modified 8 months ago
File Bookmarking
Reported by: Jay La Funk Assigned to:
Priority: major Milestone:
Component: Native application - Performance Version: 1.1.2
Keywords: Cc:
Description ¶

Would love to have the ability to bookmark MP3 files (Audiobooks, podcasts, etc) in the ipeng application so that it remembers where you stopped and you return to the exact same mark when you close and restart the file in the app.

Jay

Nice. I knew I couldn't have been the only one!

pippin
2010-07-31, 02:24
I don't believe there is a very practical way to do this on the client side alone without any server side support.
I have audio books as well and miss this, too but haven't had a good idea yet about how to do this from the client.

flattermann
2010-07-31, 02:25
Would love to have the ability to bookmark MP3 files (Audiobooks, podcasts, etc) in the ipeng application so that it remembers where you stopped and you return to the exact same mark when you close and restart the file in the app.


AFAIK, there is/was a SBS plugin called Bookmark from KDF, that should accomplish this.
http://code.google.com/p/kdfplugins/

Disclaimer: I haven't tried it myself...

flattermann
2010-07-31, 02:30
I don't believe there is a very practical way to do this on the client side alone without any server side support.
I have audio books as well and miss this, too but haven't had a good idea yet about how to do this from the client.

Maybe something like a new NowPlaying context menu "Save current Position" that stores the trackId and the current position in a local DB.

Next time, when you select the same track (=same trackId), iPeng could automatically restore the old position.

This should work, shouldn't it?

pippin
2010-07-31, 02:54
Yes, that's the one thing I thought about, too.
But it would only work with that single controller and only until you clear and rescan the database.
Also, using something like chapters would help but would probably also need some server side support.
Maybe I'm just using too many clients to honor a simple solution myself :)

flattermann
2010-07-31, 02:59
Yes, that's the one thing I thought about, too.
But it would only work with that single controller and only until you clear and rescan the database.
Also, using something like chapters would help but would probably also need some server side support.
Maybe I'm just using too many clients to honor a simple solution myself :)

Yeah, different controllers would be a problem. :-/
Clear & Rescan should not happen very often, so I think it would be ok if this would also clear the bookmarks.

SBS support (adding a NowPlaying context menu & restoring the position automatically) would be much better of course...

erland
2010-07-31, 03:08
Also, using something like chapters would help but would probably also need some server side support.


If we assume that it would be acceptable to have install a third party plugin and it's acceptable that iPeng depends on that.
- Is something missing in the Bookmark plugin ?
- Maybe it doesn't have JSON interface ?
- What additional support would be needed from the server to make the perfect solution ?

pippin
2010-07-31, 03:19
If we assume that it would be acceptable to have install a third party plugin and it's acceptable that iPeng depends on that.
- Is something missing in the Bookmark plugin ?
- Maybe it doesn't have JSON interface ?
- What additional support would be needed from the server to make the perfect solution ?

I looked at it, don't remember what the issue was, maybe really missing CLI.

The perfect solution would scan m4b files (okokok...) and these mp3 files with chapters (don't know how it is done just that iPods can do it, maybe it's some proprietary stuff).

Along with that I would just like a solution that can store
- the last position
- a number of named "bookmarks" for positions within a track
- request the last stored position and list of named bookmarks

All of this accessible through CLI.

One more thing that comes to mind but that I'm undecided about:
- an "audiobook" flag to tag a file as an audiobook. iTunes does this. But given the tagging effort it might just be more simple to use the genre as an indicator.

erland
2010-07-31, 03:31
The perfect solution would scan m4b files (okokok...) and these mp3 files with chapters (don't know how it is done just that iPods can do it, maybe it's some proprietary stuff).

Since I don't own any audiobooks, could you or someone else that does try to check if there seems to be some tag information or something similar that indicate chapters. If you know some free book file that have chapters just post the link to it and I can take look myself.



One more thing that comes to mind but that I'm undecided about:
- an "audiobook" flag to tag a file as an audiobook. iTunes does this. But given the tagging effort it might just be more simple to use the genre as an indicator.
Do you know if this is stored as a tag in the files or something similar ?
Or is it available in iTunes xml fil ?
Or both ?

JayLaFunk
2010-07-31, 04:03
Don't know if this helps or adds anything you don't know but this is the setting I use for my MP3 Audiobooks, works great with iTunes, I check boxes "Remember Playback position" and "Skip When Shufflling" if something like this could be added to iPeng it would be great...


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/4845545607_0eefb78f33.jpg

pippin
2010-07-31, 05:39
No, iTunes doesn't store it anywhere except in it's own library.
If you take the same files, copy them to another machine and scan them again with iTunes it doesn't know the setting anymore, it's purely iTunes-internal and per instance.

pippin
2010-07-31, 05:40
Don't know if this helps or adds anything you don't know but this is the setting I use for my MP3 Audiobooks, works great with iTunes, I check boxes "Remember Playback position" and "Skip When Shufflling" if something like this could be added to iPeng it would be great...


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/4845545607_0eefb78f33.jpg

Nice idea.
"Skip when shuffling" would apply to Random Mix and there you can already exclude Genres.
But I just get a few interesting ideas...

jonbauer
2010-07-31, 07:56
Doesn't this problem kinda fix itself if multitasking support is implemented on iPeng with iOS 4.0? Yes, I know it's not yet out on the iPad...

- Jon