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kphinney
2010-01-14, 17:35
Anyone else notice there are devoted forums for all of the "Logitech" Squeezebox line except the Transporter? It is still in the lineup, for now.
http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/product_matrix.html

m1abrams
2010-01-14, 21:05
Anyone else notice there are devoted forums for all of the "Logitech" Squeezebox line except the Transporter? It is still in the lineup, for now.
http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/product_matrix.html

Transporter has its own forum -> Audiophiles <ducks and hides> :)

Muele
2010-01-15, 01:49
Transporter has its own forum -> Audiophiles <ducks and hides> :)

Correct. And only hardware released "recently" has their own forums.
The lack of a dedicated Transporter-forum is omen of nothing but a vacuum for users to spread a rumor in.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 09:27
Transporter has its own forum -> Audiophiles <ducks and hides> :)

Many who post to Audiophile do not have a TP, and most of the topics posted have nothing to do with the Transporter either.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 09:33
Correct. And only hardware released "recently" has their own forums.

-1

Not correct. You have a place to turn for issues with your "1 Radio, 2 Controllers, 2 Receivers,". Are we assuming that the typical Transporter user only experiences issues with the jitter delay in a 24/96 track caused by an external world clock? Or should the purchaser of a new $2000 Squeezebox related Logitech product have a place to turn to with hardware and TP specific issues like the rest of the community who owns __current products still sold by Logitech__.


The lack of a dedicated Transporter-forum is omen of nothing but a vacuum for users to spread a rumor in.

I'm not sure what you intended to mean by that. ESL?

m1abrams
2010-01-15, 09:36
Many who post to Audiophile do not have a TP, and most of the topics posted have nothing to do with the Transporter either.

Well it was more of a joke, and the other poster also cleared up why you do not see a forum. No forum for SB1, SBG, SB2, or SB3, but they never had one before either.

bluegaspode
2010-01-15, 09:44
Why don't you just ask your question in the Audiophile Forum.
If there are other Transporter users then they are there ...

I'd call it a bad omen, if a Transporter forum was closed.
But since such a forum never existed at all (and didn't exist for any device before the Boom) I definitely see nothing intentional bad but just lazyness in that.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 09:46
Well it was more of a joke, and the other poster also cleared up why you do not see a forum. No forum for SB1, SBG, SB2, or SB3, but they never had one before either.

I understand it was meant as a joke. My OP was a half hearted attempt at adding some humor when I realized that my TP was acting up and I couldn't find assistance.

The SB1, 2, 3, or G may not have their own forum, but my point was that the Transporter is still being sold and is Logitech branded.

Granted my TP bares the "old" SlimDivices brand. But if you were in my shoes and it goes down completely would you buy a new Logitech TP today? It feels like the sun has set on this line and they are just trying to unload old stock. Heck, you can't even buy a replacement remote for it in the US.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 09:55
...
But since such a forum never existed at all (and didn't exist for any device before the Boom) I definitely see nothing intentional bad but just lazyness in that...

That's kinda my point. The Boom and TP are both being sold new as part of the current line. "Current line" being the operative words.

I can't think of an example where this type of exclusion has occurred, so I'll make one up: Imagine you own a new MacBook, 2 Cinema Displays, tons of software, & an iPhone. On top of that you own a top of the line MacPro for use in your home studio. The MacPro costs more than all of the other devices combined twice over, is still in production, still at a premium price, but was released prior to the other products. When you go to Apple you find there is no forum for it. All of the other devices have their own dedicated forums, even the software. What gives?

What would you think?

aubuti
2010-01-15, 10:18
That's kinda my point. The Boom and TP are both being sold new as part of the current line. "Current line" being the operative words.
But there were *never* forums specific to the SliMP3/SB(G)/SB2/SB3 when they were still being sold as part of the "current line" either. So are you saying they should start a new TP forum now, 3+ years after it was released? And then close the forum when they stop selling it? Please.

DaveWr
2010-01-15, 10:28
It is difficult with the adding of a forum for every new product, to justify the current state, based on this wasn't the way it used to be. That's no longer relevant especially to the Forum newcomers.

Dave

kphinney
2010-01-15, 10:28
Exactly My Point!! Thank you Aubuti!!


... So are you saying they should start a new TP forum... and then close the forum when they stop selling it? Please.


Only the Plugin developers have even thought "Transporter" in the last year and I don't think I'd send a new TP to them to be fixed. It seems inevitable that Logitech will drop the TP.

aubuti
2010-01-15, 10:44
Exactly My Point!! Thank you Aubuti!!

Only the Plugin developers have even thought "Transporter" in the last year and I don't think I'd send a new TP to them to be fixed. It seems inevitable that Logitech will drop the TP.
You're kidding, right? Yes, sooner or later Logitech will drop the TP, just like they've dropped the SB3. And just like Slim Devices dropped the SliMP3, SB, and SB2 before that. It hardly requires clairvoyance.

But even if they did open a TP forum, why close down a *user* forum when a product is discontinued? It's not as if the products disappear from users' homes. Meanwhile, there are plenty of TP questions asked and answered in General Discussion and Audiophiles forums.

funkstar
2010-01-15, 10:59
If a new transporter was realeased (lets not argue about whether there will or not) I would actually expect it to be based round the Touch, so really it should share a forum with that device. It would be the same hardware platform but with a different DAC and power supply. Just like the current Transporter is a glorified SB3*


* ok slight simplification, but you get the idea. Really there should have been a SB2/3, Transporter forum created when the product line up expanded and the forums were extended. Although General would probably just be Off Topic after that.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 12:16
If a new transporter was realeased (lets not argue about whether there will or not) I would actually expect it to be based round the Touch, so really it should share a forum with that device. It would be the same hardware platform but with a different DAC and power supply. Just like the current Transporter is a glorified SB3*


* ok slight simplification, but you get the idea. Really there should have been a SB2/3, Transporter forum created when the product line up expanded and the forums were extended. Although General would probably just be Off Topic after that.

Very good point Funkstar; perhaps it would be based around the Touch. That would be unfortunate. The Touch is good for what it is. The Transporter is (was) a product geared toward the high-end user AND was developed by the SlimDevices users in conjunction with SD. Take a look at this article which shows how Sean and some of current members of the SD forums came up with and designed the TP:

"First The Customers Dreamed the Transporter Up..." http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/111/ears-wide-open-sidebar.html

Will Logitech develop the next evolved Transporter on their own? If it's based on the Touch, I feel failure will be inevitable. (I certainly don't was a touch screen next to my tube amp.)

Assuming that Logitech would listen to the consumer willing to pay a few thousand dollars on a DS appliance, wouldn't it make sense to have a forum where the current users could give input?

This reminds me; I began a thread devoted to the next generation TP here....

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447

m1abrams
2010-01-15, 12:27
Will Logitech develop the next evolved Transporter on their own? If it's based on the Touch, I feel failure will be inevitable. (I certainly don't was a touch screen next to my tube amp.)



Why would a Touch screen be worse than 2 VFD displays, I can understand you may not like the "look" but they could be done in a nice way. VFDs are not exactly "quiet" devices.

Phil Leigh
2010-01-15, 12:51
Very good point Funkstar; perhaps it would be based around the Touch. That would be unfortunate. The Touch is good for what it is. The Transporter is (was) a product geared toward the high-end user AND was developed by the SlimDevices users in conjunction with SD. Take a look at this article which shows how Sean and some of current members of the SD forums came up with and designed the TP:

"First The Customers Dreamed the Transporter Up..." http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/111/ears-wide-open-sidebar.html

Will Logitech develop the next evolved Transporter on their own? If it's based on the Touch, I feel failure will be inevitable. (I certainly don't was a touch screen next to my tube amp.)

Assuming that Logitech would listen to the consumer willing to pay a few thousand dollars on a DS appliance, wouldn't it make sense to have a forum where the current users could give input?

This reminds me; I began a thread devoted to the next generation TP here....

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447

I reckon that the Touch into an external DAC can better the TP. I can't prove it but I would not be surprised. Things move on...

As a transport, the Touch is awesome.
YMMV

kphinney
2010-01-15, 12:52
Why would a Touch screen be worse than 2 VFD displays, I can understand you may not like the "look" but they could be done in a nice way. VFDs are not exactly "quiet" devices.

To an extent I have to rely on "form follows function". The function of the TP is to produce audiophile quality sound. The purpose of a color touch screen is to act as a GUI. Look at the plugins that are Touch-centric: Facebook is a good example.

The vacuum display excels at displaying readable text from a distance quite clearly. My listening chair is centered 98 inches from the center line of my speakers which are approximately 24" from the amp, TP, and gear. The Vacuum Fluorescent Display worked perfectly well at this distance when the TP was part of my hi-fi setup.

Some may feel cover art is important. I'd suggest the new Controller. If flipping thru your collection directly on the unit is important, then perhaps the Touch would work but it'd have to be modified along with the room to make it work in an audiophile setting; a touch screen could reside next to my chair connected to some form of faceless unit in my rack (12' of loss-inducing cable would not be acceptable). Sounds a lot like the Duet and Controller (add a good DAC please!!).

The purpose of listening is to hear. To hear correctly I cannot be within arms reach of my rack. The VFD can do this. A touch screen cannot.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 12:53
I reckon that the Touch into an external DAC can better the TP. I can't prove it but I would not be surprised. Things move on...

As a transport, the Touch is awesome.
YMMV

Darn Phil, you beat me to the Submit Reply button by a few seconds. I'd rather have a faceless unit + DAC + Controller but only because I don't want the Touch display on my rack.

Muele
2010-01-15, 12:58
-1

Not correct. You have a place to turn for issues with your "1 Radio, 2 Controllers, 2 Receivers,". Are we assuming that the typical Transporter user only experiences issues with the jitter delay in a 24/96 track caused by an external world clock? Or should the purchaser of a new $2000 Squeezebox related Logitech product have a place to turn to with hardware and TP specific issues like the rest of the community who owns __current products still sold by Logitech__.



I'm not sure what you intended to mean by that. ESL?

I'm sorry you got offended. To clarify in the most dry and acurate way I can:
The audiophile section in reality serves as gathering point for TP owners. At the time Logitech decided to make subforums for individual upcoming products, they apparently decided not to make forums for existing products. Had you made your post at that point, it could have been an omen. But the lack of a dedicated TP forum at this point in time says absolutely nothing about Logitech's plans for the TP in the future.

The vacuum-part was a comment about the current state of the forums. Just about every other post is speculations about what Logitech is up to or how people think they will fail with the Squeezebox-products. (Or at least let down the customer group they feel part of).

There are even speculations that the Touch will be pulled before it is even released. That was the thread I sort of referenced by my vacuum-remark: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=505030&postcount=5

I hope that clarifies things :)

m1abrams
2010-01-15, 12:59
To an extent I have to rely on "form follows function". The function of the TP is to produce audiophile quality sound. The purpose of a color touch screen is to act as a GUI. Look at the plugins that are Touch-centric: Facebook is a good example.

The vacuum display excels at displaying readable text from a distance quite clearly. My listening chair is centered 98 inches from the center line of my speakers which are approximately 24" from the amp, TP, and gear. The Vacuum Fluorescent Display worked perfectly well at this distance when the TP was part of my hi-fi setup.

Some may feel cover art is important. I'd suggest the new Controller. If flipping thru your collection directly on the unit is important, then perhaps the Touch would work but it'd have to be modified along with the room to make it work in an audiophile setting; a touch screen could reside next to my chair connected to some form of faceless unit in my rack (12' of loss-inducing cable would not be acceptable). Sounds a lot like the Duet and Controller (add a good DAC please!!).

The purpose of listening is to hear. To hear correctly I cannot be within arms reach of my rack. The VFD can do this. A touch screen cannot.

Well keep in mind I think following the Touch line of products does not necessarily mean having a touch screen. Just means it will most likely have an LCD and use the Squeezeplay OS. Heck if you really want to maintain a simplistic approach I could see the argument that the next TP not have any graphic display at all, maybe just a few indicators or simple text display. Have it come with a Controller like remote.

I agree a VFD makes for an excellent display, however LCDs can do a fine job at displaying to same amount of info over the same distance in a light controlled area. LCDs still lack being able to work well in brightly lit areas such as cars and outside.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 13:02
Muele - Ahh, thanks for the clarification and the link. I was never offended. This is a place for healthy debate and I welcome it.

kphinney
2010-01-15, 13:06
Well keep in mind I think following the Touch line of products does not necessarily mean having a touch screen. Just means it will most likely have an LCD and use the Squeezeplay OS. Heck if you really want to maintain a simplistic approach I could see the argument that the next TP not have any graphic display at all, maybe just a few indicators or simple text display. Have it come with a Controller like remote.

I agree a VFD makes for an excellent display, however LCDs can do a fine job at displaying to same amount of info over the same distance in a light controlled area. LCDs still lack being able to work well in brightly lit areas such as cars and outside.

True, but I'm still not a fan of the _current_ LCDs in the lineup.

Can we all agree the Transporter that is currently on the market is not only a good audio component but also looks pretty damn nice in a hi-fi setting?

m1abrams
2010-01-15, 13:18
True, but I'm still not a fan of the _current_ LCDs in the lineup.

Can we all agree the Transporter that is currently on the market is not only a good audio component but also looks pretty damn nice in a hi-fi setting?

Actually no, I personally think the chassis is a little overstated with the handles and the dual VFDs. While the Touch does not "fit" in an audio rack I could make it work with the setup better than the TP since the TP trys to fit in but not quite. The touch is just a different beast all together and that means that even though it is not like the other components in the rack it does not need to be either.

aubuti
2010-01-15, 14:35
The vacuum display excels at displaying readable text from a distance quite clearly. My listening chair is centered 98 inches from the center line of my speakers which are approximately 24" from the amp, TP, and gear. The Vacuum Fluorescent Display worked perfectly well at this distance when the TP was part of my hi-fi setup.
...
The purpose of listening is to hear. To hear correctly I cannot be within arms reach of my rack. The VFD can do this. A touch screen cannot.
But a 4.3" LCD plus an IR remote can. I understand (and respect) that you don't like the form factor of the SBT, the current LCDs, or the touch screen. I don't understand the obsession with the touch screen to the point of ignoring the perfectly good "10-foot interface" of the SBT's IR remote.

iPhone
2010-01-15, 14:55
Will Logitech develop the next evolved Transporter on their own? If it's based on the Touch, I feel failure will be inevitable. (I certainly don't was a touch screen next to my tube amp.)

Assuming that Logitech would listen to the consumer willing to pay a few thousand dollars on a DS appliance, wouldn't it make sense to have a forum where the current users could give input?

This reminds me; I began a thread devoted to the next generation TP here....

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447

I just can't see Logitech making a Transporter II anymore. Slim Devices might have gotten around to building one but they were bought out. I have come to the opinion that Logitech is interested in high volume production numbers for the consumer electronics market. Looks like they want a unit just about anybody that can set up a home network can handle. And the Touch goes one step further in that it can be hooked directly to a Stereo with music on a USB Drive while running TinySC and not need a network or server. And the Touch makes a very good digital transport, the Touch bridges most of the wide gap that used to be between the TP and SB3.

toby10
2010-01-15, 16:38
Or buy a Touch or SB3 (your preference), set it next to your chair, sync it to the TP. Should have no problem reading it then. :)

cliveb
2010-01-16, 02:08
Most of the posts in this thread discussing how the Transporter might evolve seem to be concentrating on the user interface aspects. I feel this is missing the point.

The core things that distinguish the Transporter are not the dual displays, Transnav knob, 19" form factor, or possibly even the DAC. What really sets it apart are the connectivity options and superb quality balanced analogue output. A lot of people now use small WiFi devices (Controller, iPeng, etc) rather than the IR remote, so there is no need for the TP itself to even be visible.

The TP's motherboard could be repackaged in a much simpler case without the displays, knob or buttons. In that configuration it would be a sort of audiophile version of the Duet's Receiver. Losing the VFD displays and Transnav knob would save a lot on the BOM, and there's virtually zero development work required - the motherboard design is already done.

If Logitech aren't interested, then they could try to OEM the motherboard to other small specialist outfits.

dsdreamer
2010-01-16, 05:43
Most of the posts in this thread discussing how the Transporter might evolve seem to be concentrating on the user interface aspects. I feel this is missing the point.

The core things that distinguish the Transporter are not the dual displays, Transnav knob, 19" form factor, or possibly even the DAC. What really sets it apart are the connectivity options and superb quality balanced analogue output. A lot of people now use small WiFi devices (Controller, iPeng, etc) rather than the IR remote, so there is no need for the TP itself to even be visible.

The TP's motherboard could be repackaged in a much simpler case without the displays, knob or buttons. In that configuration it would be a sort of audiophile version of the Duet's Receiver. Losing the VFD displays and Transnav knob would save a lot on the BOM, and there's virtually zero development work required - the motherboard design is already done.

If Logitech aren't interested, then they could try to OEM the motherboard to other small specialist outfits.

+1 here. Low development costs and high margin per unit sold for Logitech. A lower cost, but fully credentialed Hi-Fi music player for the rest of us.

But would the official remote for such a device have to be the existing SBC? You can't propose a displayless Transporter that needs Net::UDAP and iPeng to make it work, so something official would need to be done.

funkstar
2010-01-16, 07:20
The TP's motherboard could be repackaged in a much simpler case without the displays, knob or buttons. In that configuration it would be a sort of audiophile version of the Duet's Receiver. Losing the VFD displays and Transnav knob would save a lot on the BOM, and there's virtually zero development work required - the motherboard design is already done.
This would mean another player based round the aging IP3K platform. Not going to happen. If anything a new TP is going to be based round the internals of a Touch, so even if it doesn't have a screen, it will be SqueezeOS based. This means it can do native playback of far more formats and can use a touch as a server. Or indeed have it's own server with a SD card or USB stick/drive.

There is no future for the existing SB3/transporter platform. the developers have maxed out the memory and processor power, to move forward something new is needed, that something is SqueezeOS in the Radio and Touch.

This isn't to say the old players are going to stop working over night or anything like that, heck, even the original SliMP3 is still functional (and benefiting for updates to SBS). So I wouldn't worry about existing units.

dsdreamer
2010-01-16, 15:10
This would mean another player based round the aging IP3K platform. Not going to happen.

There is no future for the existing SB3/transporter platform. the developers have maxed out the memory and processor power, to move forward something new is needed, that something is SqueezeOS in the Radio and Touch.


You are right. I was going to suggest making an upgrade to the IP7k series of multimedia processors, with 550MHz and 240k on-chip SRAM, but this wouldn't make sense for Logitech. Much better to make a clean break to the new ARM-based platforms.

Regards,

--dsdreamer

cliveb
2010-01-17, 02:11
This would mean another player based round the aging IP3K platform. Not going to happen.
Fair enough - I can appreciate that Logitech aren't going to bring out a new model based on old technology.


If anything a new TP is going to be based round the internals of a Touch, so even if it doesn't have a screen, it will be SqueezeOS based.
But neither are Logitech going to design a new high-end player - it just doesn't fit their business model.

The Transporter is destined to be the only device in this product family ever to have high quality balanced analogue outputs. As such, it deserves not to die. If Logitech don't want to take advantage of it, they should hand over the *already finished design* to someone who cares.

toby10
2010-01-17, 03:30
........The Transporter is destined to be the only device in this product family ever to have high quality balanced analogue outputs. As such, it deserves not to die. If Logitech don't want to take advantage of it, they should hand over the *already finished design* to someone who cares.

Make them an offer. ;)