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maggior
2010-01-05, 10:48
There is some buzz going on the 'net about this job posting for a "super star" android engineer:
http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=802709

I can't imagine Logitech changing direction and moving toward using this platform for the squeezebox with SqueezeOS starting to stabilize.

Any thoughts on what Logitech might be up to here?

funkstar
2010-01-05, 13:57
My thoughts?

Logitech is a big company with a lot of products and divisions.

Would they be using Android as a platform for products, or would they want to create Android apps for use with other products? An official SqueezeBox app on the Android market place for example? or a harmony remote App on your phone?

maggior
2010-01-05, 14:05
Supposedly the position is in the "digital home group". I know the squeezebox guys are in the "streaming media business unit". I figured it could be that the SMBU is a division of the "digital home group". Or, with the recent reorg, perhaps the SMBU is now the DHG. Who knows...but it can be fun to speculate :-).

I didn't think of an app to talk to Squeezeboxes on an android device, like iPeng. That would be pretty neat.

DaveWr
2010-01-05, 14:37
The multiple media playing was a bit worrying if it applied to our Squeeze stuff.

But maybe bigger things - I am sure that Logitech need other media streaming stuff for the future, just hope we don't see any more de-emphasis on the audio focus front.

Dave

peterw
2010-01-08, 13:13
There is some buzz going on the 'net about this job posting for a "super star" android engineer:
http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=802709

I can't imagine Logitech changing direction and moving toward using this platform for the squeezebox with SqueezeOS starting to stabilize.

Hmm, if only I'd seen that before asking about Android recently (https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=501765#post501765)!

Android is just a Linux-based OS with a UI library and some apps included. I expect Logitech could run SqueezePlay on top of Android (instead of their Linux-based SqueezeOS) if they wanted, and I think that would be a good, smart interim step. 3rd-party development on SqueezePlay (the "jive" UI) has been limited compared to 3rd-party Perl/Squeezebox Server development, and SqueezeOS development has been very, very scarce. If Logitech merely moved the SqueezePlay UI to Android (and designed it to run well in the background, etc.) then customers would instantly gain access to many existing Android apps. Instead of writing a cool new app themselves or trying to encourage someone else to write one just for Squeezebox, Logitech could rely on the greater Android development community. They'd spend less, and customers would gain more -- especially since Android Market encompasses both free and paid apps (Logitech has not shown any interest in building an "app store" for Squeezebox, and even the "app gallery" for highlighting free apps seems to be losing momentum. As little interest as folks seem to have in developing "applets" for the new Squeezeboxes, I think it would be good to at least give 3rd party developers some hope that they could sell apps. Switching to Android would give developers that option, at least for apps not strongly tied to the SqueezePlay UI.)

A lot of us talk about the value that 3rd-party code has always added to Squeezebox, and it's still true that 3rd-party work makes Squeezebox much more powerful than Sonos' black boxes. But 3rd-party Squeezebox work has always paled terribly compared with 3rd-party options for Logitech's other big digital media competitor, Apple's iPod Touch (and iPhone). When Sonos and Slim Devices launched, most people were happy to buy nice phones that were only good at making phone calls, but Apple has raised the bar for phones, and portable media players. Why shouldn't users now expect more of media players with power cords like SB Touch?

Long-term, it might make sense to rewrite the SqueezePlay app as a native Android app -- Tom, Ben, Erland, and others have spent a fair bit of time chasing down UI bugs & weaknesses in Jive and SDL; maybe it would be better to let Google maintain the UI library.

I don't know if Android is a viable option for Radio or Touch, though. Both have relatively small amounts of RAM (64 MB and 128 MB respectively, if I recall correctly). I say small because Android smartphone adopters complained that T-Mobile's first Android phones had "only" 192 MB, and the new Nexus One has 512 MB of RAM. Radio and Touch may be stuck with SqueezeOS, for better or worse. But I'd love to see an upgraded Touch running Android.

If Logitech doesn't make an Android-based Squeezebox, I can easily imagine some other big company making an Android-based touchscreen "picture frame" with decent audio outputs, and somebody else porting squeezeslave to it. Soundbridge v2, with Picasa, Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube built in. Sound good?

Final thought: Google seems an interesting choice for a partnership with Logitech. On the one hand, Slim Devices and SMBU always competed with Apple, so Google would seem a natural ally. On the other hand, some former SMBU staff have been reassigned to the Logitech division responsible for products with iPod dock connectors...

erland
2010-01-09, 02:21
Android is just a Linux-based OS with a UI library and some apps included. I expect Logitech could run SqueezePlay on top of Android (instead of their Linux-based SqueezeOS) if they wanted, and I think that would be a good, smart interim step. 3rd-party development on SqueezePlay (the "jive" UI) has been limited compared to 3rd-party Perl/Squeezebox Server development, and SqueezeOS development has been very, very scarce. If Logitech merely moved the SqueezePlay UI to Android (and designed it to run well in the background, etc.) then customers would instantly gain access to many existing Android apps. Instead of writing a cool new app themselves or trying to encourage someone else to write one just for Squeezebox, Logitech could rely on the greater Android development community. They'd spend less, and customers would gain more -- especially since Android Market encompasses both free and paid apps (Logitech has not shown any interest in building an "app store" for Squeezebox, and even the "app gallery" for highlighting free apps seems to be losing momentum. As little interest as folks seem to have in developing "applets" for the new Squeezeboxes, I think it would be good to at least give 3rd party developers some hope that they could sell apps. Switching to Android would give developers that option, at least for apps not strongly tied to the SqueezePlay UI.)

Now you got me excited, I like your thoughts.

I wonder what would be required to make Android run on the Touch or Radio ?

I suppose some drivers would be required ? Which probably isn't released as open source at the moment ?

Does Android require a specific Linux kernel or would it even be possible to run it on top of the Linux kernel currently running on Touch/Radio ?

funkstar
2010-01-20, 15:14
My thoughts?

Logitech is a big company with a lot of products and divisions.

Would they be using Android as a platform for products, or would they want to create Android apps for use with other products? An official SqueezeBox app on the Android market place for example? or a harmony remote App on your phone?

From another forum :)

It's new it's called : Logitech Touch Mouse Server


Touch Mouse is an application that turns your iPhone or iPod touch into a wireless trackpad and keyboard for your computer. There are two parts to Touch Mouse:

* The Touch Mouse app for your iPhone or iPod touch. Coming soon on the App Store.
* The Touch Mouse Server for your Mac or PC. Click the button below to download the software.


Logitech Touch Mouse Server (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/494/6367&hub=1&cl=us,en?section=overview)

Available for Windows and Mac OS X.
I can seen an Android version of this on the horizon. I don't remember seeming "OMG!! iphone powered squeezeboxes!!" when the iphone developer advert was placed ;)

:D

ModelCitizen
2010-01-20, 15:42
When the app comes out it'll be interesting to see if the Logitech offering is better than the one I use already, Mobile Air Mouse (www.mobileairmouse.com) which I'm very happy with.

MC

MeSue
2010-01-20, 20:40
When the app comes out it'll be interesting to see if the Logitech offering is better than the one I use already, Mobile Air Mouse (www.mobileairmouse.com) which I'm very happy with.

MC

Hmm... that will be interesting. I also use Mobile Air Mouse from time to time.

JJZolx
2010-01-20, 21:00
I would hope Logitech's use of Android is a little more inventive than air mice. They've pulled 3/4 of the development, QA and support staff away from the Touch project and put them on something else. Hopefully, it's the next audio and/or video player rather than mice and programmable remote controls.

I think peterw hit on it. Purely speculation, but that's what we're here for... I think someone evaluating the technology behind the SqueezeOS line of players saw a black hole in terms of development costs and project overruns and they've decided to completely retrench. They'll get the Touch out, if just barely, and that will be the end of SqueezeOS.

maggior
2010-01-21, 06:44
They've pulled 3/4 of the development, QA and support staff away from the Touch project and put them on something else.

Where did you get this number from? I was unaware of this.

MeSue
2010-01-21, 08:51
When the app comes out it'll be interesting to see if the Logitech offering is better than the one I use already, Mobile Air Mouse (www.mobileairmouse.com) which I'm very happy with.

MC

This has been out for a while, apparently. I found it in the app store last night, even though the Logitech page still says coming soon.

It doesn't have a media mode like Air Mouse does, but it has a middle mouse button (can't remember if Air Mouse has that).

erland
2010-01-21, 12:21
Where did you get this number from? I was unaware of this.

I wouldn't trust anything mentioned in this forum these days unless it comes from a Logitech employee or someone you really trust, there are just too many rumors and premature predictions posted at the moment. Of course, Jim might know something the rest of us don't...

I think the only truth I trust are some indications, for example what Christopher mentioned here:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71241

He clearly doesn't mention any exact numbers, just that the team is a bit smaller. He also mentions a reorganization which might result in a smaller team but it might also just be that they have divided/organized the work differently. For example by letting another business unit taking care of the hardware part. Let's just face it, we have no idea what Logitech plans, they might just want the new organization to settle before they increase the team again.

Ben recently posted that they have changed the licensing of the player software and plan to strengthen the collaboration with third party community. It does feel a bit strange to do this in case they plan to replace the platform with something totally different:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74049

Still, as I posted earlier in this thread, an Android platform would be pretty cool from a third party developer point of view.

andyg
2010-01-21, 12:24
There was a reorg, which was mentioned previously. Richard, Tom, James, and myself are part of a new group now. I am still working on Squeezebox about 50% of the time, give or take, but the others are no longer working on Squeezebox stuff.

DaveWr
2010-01-21, 12:39
Of course, Jim might know something the rest of us don't...



Jim seems to have some sort of insight.

No wonder we have delays and feature postponements...

Dave

autopilot
2010-01-21, 13:06
There was a reorg, which was mentioned previously. Richard, Tom, James, and myself are part of a new group now. I am still working on Squeezebox about 50% of the time, give or take, but the others are no longer working on Squeezebox stuff.

So who actually is working on Squeezebox stuff now?

andyg
2010-01-21, 13:13
So who actually is working on Squeezebox stuff now?

Felix, Ben, Michael, and Alan on the software side, in addition to some newly-hired contractors.

DaveWr
2010-01-21, 13:40
Felix, Ben, Michael, and Alan on the software side, in addition to some newly-hired contractors.

Is that covering firmware, SqueezeOS and Squeezebox Server / MySB.com?

Dave

maggior
2010-01-21, 21:40
There was a reorg, which was mentioned previously. Richard, Tom, James, and myself are part of a new group now. I am still working on Squeezebox about 50% of the time, give or take, but the others are no longer working on Squeezebox stuff.

I'm not familiar with Tom and James, but I am with Andy and Richard. Just losing Andy and Richard is huge!! Hopefully you guys have moved onto something personally interesting. You've certainly put your time in and made your mark on the Squeezebox products.

Unfortunately, hiring contractors is the name of the game today. I'm working as one myself now. Times have changed.

erland
2010-01-21, 22:03
Just losing Andy and Richard is huge!! Hopefully you guys have moved onto something personally interesting. You've certainly put your time in and made your mark on the Squeezebox products.

+1

Andy/Richard/Tom/James:
I'm really sorry to hear that you no longer are going to work on the Squeezebox. I hope you know that your work on the Squeezebox platform is greatly appreciated, the Squeezebox platform hadn't been where it is today without all of you. I hope you have got something else more interesting to do in your new team(s).

Remember that you can still stay here as third party developers, some cool plugins or applets maybe ?



Unfortunately, hiring contractors is the name of the game today. I'm working as one myself now. Times have changed.

It does feel a bit strange to move away existing key resources and replace them with contractors. I guess Logitech had something more important where they was needed, I can't wait to see what it is...

oktup
2010-01-22, 02:07
I don't think it bodes particularly well for the ongoing development of SB products/software that permanent staff have been replaced with contractors :(

oktup
2010-01-22, 02:11
Sorry - should also have said - I hope you guys aren't unhappy with the move - commiserations if it was against your will.