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kllngtme
2009-12-30, 14:11
So I found it odd that there's a preorder yet no actual release date for the touch so I decided to call...

On the phone with one of the reps, apparently it was originally set for release November 2009. The rep said he's now hearing a June 2010 release date.

That sucks!!! Just thought you guys would like to know...

maggior
2009-12-30, 14:18
Was this a Logitech rep in the US? That seems rediculous. They have a beta trial going and apparently the software is almost done.

I hope that person was misinformed.

kllngtme
2009-12-30, 14:34
yea, it was a US rep, not even a half hour ago. I find it ridiculous as well considering the preorder has been around for a while now. I just preordered it assuming another month, maybe 2 but now june... :(

pfarrell
2009-12-30, 14:52
kllngtme wrote:
> yea, it was a US rep, not even a half hour ago. I find it ridiculous as
> well considering the preorder has been around for a while now. I just
> preordered it assuming another month, maybe 2 but now june... :(

I don't believe June. I have no inside information, but I am a beta, and
the software is really coming along nicely. Its all speculation at this
point.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

andyg
2009-12-30, 15:13
On Dec 30, 2009, at 4:34 PM, kllngtme wrote:

>
> yea, it was a US rep, not even a half hour ago. I find it ridiculous as
> well considering the preorder has been around for a while now. I just
> preordered it assuming another month, maybe 2 but now june... :(

You realize those people don't have a clue right?

mlsstl
2009-12-30, 15:48
You realize those people don't have a clue right?
Besides cluelessness, one other ploy is to start a rumor that is just out of bounds (but still a possibility) for the specific purpose of drawing a response from those in the know.

Of course, sometimes too-clever-by-half is just the flip side of clueless.

DaveWr
2009-12-30, 16:21
In a vacuum anything will expand out of all proportion.....

Dave

snarlydwarf
2009-12-30, 20:24
In a vacuum anything will expand out of all proportion.....


Which is why I get all the mail advertising vacuum...

oh wait, wrong forum.

erland
2009-12-30, 22:27
On Dec 30, 2009, at 4:34 PM, kllngtme wrote:

>
> yea, it was a US rep, not even a half hour ago. I find it ridiculous as
> well considering the preorder has been around for a while now. I just
> preordered it assuming another month, maybe 2 but now june... :(

You realize those people don't have a clue right?

Shouldn't this be taken care of inside Logitech ?
From a customer relation point of view it feels kind of strange that different parts of Logitech gives the customer different indications. I realize Logitech is a big company, but still, saying that someone that works in a different part of the same company doesn't have a clue can't be a good idea...

As a customer, I do expect to get the answer on questions like these from my sales representative or market annoucements/press releases.

jdoering
2009-12-31, 01:18
Maybe the rep mixed the Touch up with the next post-Touch amazing Squeezebox that not even beta testers know about yet! I wonder what IS coming in June 2010...

Might as well shoot high on the rumor front ;)

-Jeff

armiba
2009-12-31, 05:55
Successor of Transporter?
Competitors ~ Olive 4HD Music Server
http://www.olive.us/products/olive4hd/overview.html


Maybe the rep mixed the Touch up with the next post-Touch amazing Squeezebox that not even beta testers know about yet! I wonder what IS coming in June 2010...

Might as well shoot high on the rumor front ;)

-Jeff

signor_rossi
2009-12-31, 06:20
Maybe the rep mixed the Touch up with the next post-Touch amazing Squeezebox that not even beta testers know about yet! I wonder what IS coming in June 2010...

Might as well shoot high on the rumor front ;)

-Jeff

Don't throw more oil in the flames, it may get out of hand... :-)
But I actually do expect a 24/96 capable receiver replacement not much time in the future...

RadioClash
2009-12-31, 07:53
On Dec 30, 2009, at 4:34 PM, kllngtme wrote:

>
> yea, it was a US rep, not even a half hour ago. I find it ridiculous as
> well considering the preorder has been around for a while now. I just
> preordered it assuming another month, maybe 2 but now june... :(

You realize those people don't have a clue right?


Well, no offense, but at this point I don't think anyone has a clue.

rotho
2010-01-05, 02:21
When looking at the Touch P1 and P2 bug list this morning (https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&priority=P2&query_format=advanced&order=Importance&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&target_milestone=7.5.0), I noticed that a lot of bugs have been moved from P2 to P3 priority (with the following explanation : "Changing priorities due to management guidance.").

So it seems that Logitech wants to accelerate the release time of the Touch by reducing the number of bugs to deal with before its launch (assuming that their goal is to solve all the P1 and P2 bugs).

sebp
2010-01-05, 07:25
Facts:
1. CES 2010 is coming next weekend
2. Logitech won two CES Innovation awards for the SB Radio & SB Touch

Speculation:
1. SB Touch & SB Radio will be at CES 2010
2. Release date for SB Touch will be unveiled

Andy8421
2010-01-07, 23:57
Rotho,

Hmmn.

I have been lurking in the wings waiting for the Touch launch, but if your analysis is correct, I fear Logitech may be making the same mistake with the Touch as they did with the Duet (and maybe the Radio, given the problems apparently encountered by European mysb users).

Having suffered through the premature launch of the Duet, I thought that Logitech had learnt their lesson, and I was impressed that the Boom was clearly a much more 'finished' product when it came to market. I do believe that Logitech's reputation continues to be impacted by the Duet and ongoing buggy software releases. I hope that the Touch is fully QA'd before it gets released.

Much hay is made on the Sonos forums regarding the relative unreliability of the squeeze products, which is unfortunate.

I will wait until the Touch has been out a few months before diving in. I would rather have a reliable product in August, than pulling my hair out in April.

andynormancx
2010-01-08, 00:43
I have been lurking in the wings waiting for the Touch launch, but if your analysis is correct, I fear Logitech may be making the same mistake with the Touch as they did with the Duet (and maybe the Radio, given the problems apparently encountered by European mysb users).

Having suffered through the premature launch of the Duet, I thought that Logitech had learnt their lesson, and I was impressed that the Boom was clearly a much more 'finished' product when it came to market.
Huh ? Surely the massive delay (from reading between the lines it would appear that they wanted to launch last summer and had the hardware ready then) in the Touch is an indication that they are trying to avoid that situation ?

Andy8421
2010-01-08, 05:44
Andy,

I had certainly hoped so, but the post from Rotho below had me concerned that bugs were being swept under the carpet in order to get the product out of the door. I hope I have got that wrong.

Andy


When looking at the Touch P1 and P2 bug list this morning (https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&priority=P2&query_format=advanced&order=Importance&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&target_milestone=7.5.0), I noticed that a lot of bugs have been moved from P2 to P3 priority (with the following explanation : "Changing priorities due to management guidance.").

So it seems that Logitech wants to accelerate the release time of the Touch by reducing the number of bugs to deal with before its launch (assuming that their goal is to solve all the P1 and P2 bugs).

dave77
2010-01-08, 05:46
Facts:
1. CES 2010 is coming next weekend
2. Logitech won two CES Innovation awards for the SB Radio & SB Touch

Speculation:
1. SB Touch & SB Radio will be at CES 2010
2. Release date for SB Touch will be unveiled

Do we have any news from CES yet, did it start yesterday?

Ikabob
2010-01-08, 06:32
I would imagine that avoiding bugs will be impossible even after a long developement waiting period . Once the touch is released to customers there will be a multitude of unique situations requiring some "tweaking". I am patient and I am willing to go through that growing period as was necessary with the radio. It has been worth the wait and even the frustrations. I believe in Logitech and their ability and determination to perfect their products. BUT there will ,no doubt, be a "growing period " that we will have to be patient with ...IMHO. I love my Squeezes! I am excited to get my Touch!

DaveWr
2010-01-08, 06:36
Do we have any news from CES yet, did it start yesterday?

Yes they have a cooler / loudspeaker tray, its for Touch 2 with a real processor & OS ;-)

FredFredrickson
2010-01-11, 12:29
Update to the internet rumor hype machine- according to an unnofficial source, http://www.slashgear.com/logitech-squeezebox-touch-launch-gets-postponed-until-february-2010-1165729/ we're looking at feb?

dave77
2010-01-12, 02:06
Update to the internet rumor hype machine- according to an unnofficial source, http://www.slashgear.com/logitech-squeezebox-touch-launch-gets-postponed-until-february-2010-1165729/ we're looking at feb?

That's quite an old post

metalbob
2010-01-12, 19:23
I spoke with a Logitech rep in their room at CES (they didn't have a booth on the main floor where I was working) and he stated late February/early March. The unit was not on display in the room, but a sealed box was. The box lists Apple Lossless as a native format and not on the list of ones needing to be transcoded.

The unit was on display front and center in the lobby though as it as with all the other award winners this year. I was surprised how small the unit was as the pictures give a bit of a bulky appearance based on the screen size compared to the rest of the unit.

usch
2010-01-13, 03:50
I was surprised how small the unit was as the pictures give a bit of a bulky appearance based on the screen size compared to the rest of the unit.
From the dimensions given in the Wiki (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/HardwareComparison) it is smaller than the Classic. A little bit taller perhaps, but much less wide.

I think they purposely take the pictures in a way that makes the units appear bigger than they are. When I unpacked my Boom I was surprised how small it is, too.

JJZolx
2010-01-13, 04:20
From the dimensions given in the Wiki (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/HardwareComparison) it is smaller than the Classic. A little bit taller perhaps, but much less wide.

I think they purposely take the pictures in a way that makes the units appear bigger than they are. When I unpacked my Boom I was surprised how small it is, too.

Does this help at all? It's about 1/4" taller, 1 1/2" less wide. The angle of the face is tipped back quite a bit more than the SB3/Classic and the screen is noticeably optimized for viewing from a higher angle, which should work well for those using the touch interface.

metalbob
2010-01-13, 07:53
Does this help at all? It's about 1/4" taller, 1 1/2" less wide. The angle of the face is tipped back quite a bit more than the SB3/Classic and the screen is noticeably optimized for viewing from a higher angle, which should work well for those using the touch interface.

The front dimensions appeared to be about the size of my original Sirius unit, but only about 1/3 as thick. That thing was the size of a brick!

hansvds
2010-01-14, 07:27
Update to the internet rumor hype machine- according to an unnofficial source, http://www.slashgear.com/logitech-squeezebox-touch-launch-gets-postponed-until-february-2010-1165729/ we're looking at feb?

In the Netherland the official Logitech site states April 2010 as PLANNED release date.
Maybe the postponement has to do with the aspect that MySQL is bought by Oracle and nobody knows so far if MySQL will still live and will still be maintained in 6 months time.

Mnyb
2010-01-14, 07:36
In the Netherland the official Logitech site states April 2010 as PLANNED release date.
Maybe the postponement has to do with the aspect that MySQL is bought by Oracle and nobody knows so far if MySQL will still live and will still be maintained in 6 months time.

But the TinySC is said to be using SQlite , and is not sbs planned to move to SQlite after 8.0.x ?

Ronald
2010-01-14, 07:59
What is mysql anyway? If we lose that what happens? makes me a little insecure with my boxes.

strindberg
2010-01-14, 08:08
There is absolutely nothing to be worried about when it comes to "software that SBS depends on and that might vanish".

Both MySQL (and SQLite) is a very established open source product that won't be affected by one bit even if Oracle decides to drop it from its priorities.

funkstar
2010-01-15, 10:40
What is mysql anyway? If we lose that what happens? makes me a little insecure with my boxes.
MySQL is the database engine that SBS uses. MySQL is an open source project (all be it headed up by Oracle) there is no prospect of "loosing" it.

In the longer term, SBS is moving away from MySQL to SQLite. There are verious reasons for this, all are very good, but Oracle is not one of them.

hansvds
2010-01-19, 10:04
There is absolutely nothing to be worried about when it comes to "software that SBS depends on and that might vanish".

Both MySQL (and SQLite) is a very established open source product that won't be affected by one bit even if Oracle decides to drop it from its priorities.

If there is no "question" about MySql being dropped by Oracle, why is it then that a worldwide investigation is being held on what users think about MySql not being an open source project anymore??!!!!!!

Please read the limitations on Oracle's commitment on http://planet.mysql.com/entry/?id=22623

If I was to develop a product I would be very reserved to use Mysql because of these facts.

I hope I will be wrong in my opinion.

andyg
2010-01-19, 10:48
We aren't dropping MySQL, in fact the version of MySQL we ship with the server is 3.5 years old, 5.0.22. Maybe we should update it one of these days...

SilverRS8
2010-01-19, 14:11
We aren't dropping MySQL, in fact the version of MySQL we ship with the server is 3.5 years old, 5.0.22. Maybe we should update it one of these days...

Hi Andy,

What does it take for future versions to run on MySQL as I expect the default DB to be SQlite? Will it be a choice during installation or will it require a manual tweaking?

Regards,
Frank

andyg
2010-01-19, 14:47
Hi Andy,

What does it take for future versions to run on MySQL as I expect the default DB to be SQlite? Will it be a choice during installation or will it require a manual tweaking?

Regards,
Frank

It's an advanced preference right now, but apparently it is broken for some people.

SilverRS8
2010-01-20, 23:26
It's an advanced preference right now, but apparently it is broken for some people.

Thx Andy. Thats great news.

juzi
2010-01-26, 04:25
Hi,

The first time I saw fotos of the Squeezbox Touch I fell in love with it.
But I was just not willing to wait for an indefinite amount of time.
So I canceled my pre-order from November (with the German T-Online-Shop) and went for a TEAC WAP-v6000. The design of the TEAC is utterly appalling, no Touchscreen, no nothing.
But hey, it can do full HD video and, above all, it will actually be delivered to me tomorrow!

Cheers
Juergen

krochat
2010-01-30, 01:13
This is pretty funny - Gazelle, an online electronics trade-in web site will give you $170 for your non-existant brand-new Touch. I'd be willing to out-bid them!

http://costco.gazelle.com/sell-home-audio/logitech/squeezebox/81330-Logitech_Squeezebox_Touch?autocomplete=1

Regards,
Kim

servies
2010-02-03, 04:14
If there is no "question" about MySql being dropped by Oracle, why is it then that a worldwide investigation is being held on what users think about MySql not being an open source project anymore??!!!!!!

Please read the limitations on Oracle's commitment on http://planet.mysql.com/entry/?id=22623

If I was to develop a product I would be very reserved to use Mysql because of these facts.

I hope I will be wrong in my opinion.
To put it bluntly:
You're wrong!
Stop spreading FUD.

DaveKen
2010-02-03, 05:45
Hi Guys,
This morning I got two e-mails from Logitech - coincidence?
One was to say that they had marked my case as SOLVED since they had received no reply from me in the last 168 hours to the response they gave me. I advised them that my case was a question asking for an indication of when the Touch would be released and, as I could not trace receiving any response from them I asked them to forward it again and remove the SOLVED label.
The second e-mail was asking me to fill in a survey form rating their customer service. Several questions were asked with a rating of 0 to 10. My score was 0 for every question.
Anyone else got the same questionnaire?
Dave.

Tripmaster
2010-02-03, 06:53
Hi Guys,
Anyone else got the same questionnaire?
Dave.

I wish ;)

DaveKen
2010-02-04, 04:26
Hi Guys,
After my exchange of e-mails yesterday regarding my pre-order status for Touch I received a further e-mail from Custome Service (?) this morning which contained the following sentences: -

"The anticipated release date should be March or April. You will receive a notification about this."

Passed on for what it's worth.
DaveK

tomasito
2010-02-04, 07:52
My buddy works as an OJT with logitech in the fremont office. He said that he heard that the touch most likely will be released near the end of the year, most likely christmas

dave77
2010-02-04, 08:45
My buddy works as an OJT with logitech in the fremont office. He said that he heard that the touch most likely will be released near the end of the year, most likely christmas

Did he tell you that last year :)

andyg
2010-02-04, 09:05
That's false, we're looking at a couple of months until release.

ModelCitizen
2010-02-04, 09:46
That's false, we're looking at a couple of months until release.
Surely not April 1st?
:-)

MC

mlsstl
2010-02-04, 13:19
That's false, we're looking at a couple of months until release.

I gather that means this post on 12/15/09 in the "Any release date set for touch yet?" thread was wrong:
Maybe we only said this in the beta tester forum, but yes, as of now Touch will not ship until sometime in February.

The official Logitech information doesn't seem to be any more dependable than the wild speculation by forum members.

Assuming the delay is just all programming related, it sure is making the software problems look intractable. Nothing quite like a company having their most devoted customers scratching their heads wondering what's gone wrong.

testmatch
2010-02-04, 13:31
That's false, we're looking at a couple of months until release.

Wow - so that means the pre-orders placed via the Logitech website in October are currently expected to be delivered some six months later. That's got to be some kind of record - and with no communication from the sales side of Logitech to let people who don't read these forums know what's going on.

Tripmaster
2010-02-04, 15:13
Shame-ful

BrianB
2010-02-04, 16:01
no communication from the sales side of Logitech

Yeah, that's kind of what's a mystery to me. There's little indication on their website of the delay and it's featured right along side their other products that are available. You can "preorder" it, but it gives no information of when it will actually be available. I don't mind the delay as much as the lack of competent communication on the part of Logitech.

I don't own any squeeze box products at this time and this is kind of what is making me rethink it. Given the kind of misdirection the company has used to take orders to date, I'm worried about how bad the communication and support will be when it comes out. But, at least in two months I'll really have a good idea of whether I need it or not and can try some other solutions first. Who knows? They may be doing me a favor. I think if there's no firm and publicly stated release date by the end of this month, you kind of have to take it as a reflection of the company's support for the product in the long term. I want them to get it right, but just like every tech product, support is paramount. I'll probably have to move on if they still don't have it figured out by the end of this month.

maggior
2010-02-04, 19:11
That's false, we're looking at a couple of months until release.

It's good to get some info from Logitech - thanks Andy.

No disrespect intended - I certainly hope the release is stable otherwise there will certainly be an uproar. It's perfectly OK to take time to get things done correctly, as long as that is what actually happens.

If this product is stable upon release and deemed "worth the wait", you'll have really accomplished something worhwhile. Under those circumstances, people will forget quickly how long they had to wait for the product.

Cold-1
2010-02-05, 01:07
That's false, we're looking at a couple of months until release.

Define "cuple". Because for my experience with this word in conjunction with companies, this almost everytime ment 4-6 months.

DaveKen
2010-02-05, 05:24
If this product is stable upon release and deemed "worth the wait", you'll have really accomplished something worhwhile. Under those circumstances, people will forget quickly how long they had to wait for the product.

And if it still isn't stable when released, and released soon, ...........

Some months ago I posted what sh*te customer service Logitech were providing on this product, particularly with regards to those of us who had placed pre-orders, and got 'jumped on from a great height' - anybody still think their actions in this area can in any way be justified?

ModelCitizen
2010-02-05, 06:49
Hasn't all been said on this subject that can be said?

A summary. Logitech have been caught short by two things:

1) It has taken them a lot longer than they thought it would to get the product as stable as they want it.

2) The product was made public by a third party before it was ready.

The Touch includes TinySC. This is revolutionary in the Squeezedevice world and I'm sure it is very tricky to get a version of the very powerful SBS to run on hardware as limited as the Touch. As I understand it a fair bit of SBS (i.e. scanner) has had to be rewritten.

The Touch release has been a cock-up, not doubt about it, but surely you can understand Logitech's reluctance to publicise an exact release date? Once bitten twice shy (I'm thinking of the Duet here which was rushed out without sufficient development and caused many purchasers a lot of pain). Shouting at them to give an exact date is not going to make any difference.

Either cancel your order or shutup. Those that don't cancel.... the wait will be worthwhile. I have a beta Touch and it works pretty well as part of my system at the moment and it's getting better with every firmware release.

Having said that it would be encouraging if the Logitech management issued an announcement about it in the forums (and perhaps a general press release). Although it might be difficult to feel positive about Logitech management you have to feel sorry for the developers (esp. Andy and Michael) who are almost the sole Logitech presence in the forums, and do their very best within the remit Logitech allows them, but then have to read all this flack in return.

The most likely result of the whining is that the developers will feel less comfortable here and partake less often.

MC

gellie
2010-02-05, 07:25
Usually when there are repeated delays on a new product its a bust.I see multiple problems with the touch if it every gets released.

ModelCitizen
2010-02-05, 07:47
I see multiple problems with the touch if it every gets released.
What, you have a crystal ball? Here it is nice and simple, just for you:

1) The delayed release date is to ensure it won't have "multiple problems"
2) My Touch works fine for me *now* on my network with TinySC fed by a 1tb drive.

MC

tomasito
2010-02-05, 07:51
A delay of almost 6 months since I place my pre-order. makes me believe there is a big problem be it software or hardware, which logitech is not telling. The touch doesn't put your life at risk and it is not push out the door like what toyota did.

maggior
2010-02-05, 08:06
A delay of almost 6 months since I place my pre-order. makes me believe there is a big problem be it software or hardware, which logitech is not telling. The touch doesn't put your life at risk and it is not push out the door like what toyota did.

Agreed that it doesn't put your life at risk, but it can put it's own life at risk. If the product comes out with a host of problems, even if they are acknowldged by Logitech, the product's reputation will start out poorly and may never recover. People still bash the Duet based on it's stability at release.

Phil Leigh
2010-02-05, 08:14
Usually when there are repeated delays on a new product its a bust.I see multiple problems with the touch if it every gets released.

Really? I've been running a Touch since Xmas 2008 and it has worked fine for using me using the latest full-fat SBS. The hardware is NOT the issue here, it just works. TinySC has been difficult for all concerned, but I'm sure it will be pretty solid on release. The beta version I'm running is ALMOST there... in most respects.

Oh, and by the way, it is one of the best sounding NDS's on the market (IMO).

BrianB
2010-02-05, 09:30
Either cancel your order or shutup.

I think that seems to be the current tag line for the Touch. I'm not whining, I'm just pointing out that their current strategy doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the product or in Logictech. That is, they're featuring it prominently in marketing and soliciting pre-orders, yet they can't provide a release date or any official information about the delay. I want the Touch to be what those like you with faith in it assume it will be. But, right now, it's just a phantom product that may or may not be any good.

Seriously, any information from Logitech other than "just trust us and pre-order now" would go a long way towards gaining some confidence in Logitech and the product.

mlsstl
2010-02-05, 09:30
Hasn't all been said on this subject that can be said?

Either cancel your order or shutup. Those that don't cancel.... the wait will be worthwhile. I have a beta Touch and it works pretty well...

I suppose you haven't noticed that is is pretty easy to float above others with an air of superiority and counsel patience when you have your unit and others don't. ;-)

In the absence of credible information, it is simply human nature for people to engage in speculation. If there is an information void, it will not remain empty. And, the harder the source of official information tries to ignore the brouhaha, the more vivid the speculation becomes. Right now, Logitech might as well be delivering free fodder to their competitors by the truckload.

While perhaps they weren't responsible for the public's premature awareness of the Touch, that egg can't be unscrambled. You would think they'd be a bit more forthcoming by giving a status report to those who pre-ordered, but instead they are now on their third revised release date, communicated only through a comment buried in their user forums. The "official" info doesn't seem any more credible than the speculation.

At some point one would think they'd go to their PR guy and ask if there is a better way of handling things as opposed to sticking with the script that was broken months ago.

DaveWr
2010-02-05, 09:35
+1

The superiority issue is a little tiring from those who have had free product for a year........

Dave

Ikabob
2010-02-05, 09:36
Has anyone heard of the statement "patience is a virtue"? I have been enjoying my Squeezes so much and our home is filled with beautiful music. So, I am very thankful for Logitech and its team of experts who have provided me with this. I say "THANK YOU"!

I think we need to not bite the hand that is giving us this fantastic system at a reasonable price , I might add. I would like to see much more positivity and much less negativity. Can we just cut Logitech some slack? Be patient. I am very anxious to and do not enjoy the wait,but I can be tolerant and patient....and very thankful as well. It is very difficult for a company to endure all this public bashing and so...if you like the products, it is self-defeating to create such a negative public display.

Confusious say: "Enjoy what we have at the present and the future will be bright. Patience is a virtue and will be rewarded."

DaveWr
2010-02-05, 09:48
Sorry don't see why Logitech should get an easy ride. Let's not get into fanboy syndrome.

The Squeezebox system is great. But Logitech management has significantly redirected skilled development resources to other projects, whilst adding in some contractors. This at a time of maximum change in the portfolio and the technology it uses.

Cutting slack for 'we underestimated, it will be delayed' is reasonable. But actions since these delays took hold are management controlled.

I have worked my whole career in the technical product sector. I cannot believe that the attitude to their customer channels is so cavalier. If the distribution channels lose confidence or allegiance then we all suffer. The products the few that frequent these forums love and continue to purchase, will not keep the business afloat.

What is really impressive is the way that the now restructured resources working on the project remain upbeat and productive.

Dave

mlsstl
2010-02-05, 09:55
It is very difficult for a company to endure all this public bashing and so...if you like the products, it is self-defeating to create such a negative public display.

The irony is that Logitech has it within their power to address the situation in a much better fashion than they've been doing.

OK, they made some public relations mistakes to date. Why keep repeating them?

How about this quote? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Maybe Logitech should try changing their PR approach instead of trying mightily to ignore the elephant in the middle of the room.

'Nuff said. I'll shut up now. ;-)

Ikabob
2010-02-05, 10:36
If it were not for forums such as these, we may not even be aware that there have been any delays. Public forums are new to the industrial sector and addressing them should play a secondary role in the company's mission. Yes, there are reps who do address our concerns and our predominantly mis-information. I respect Logitech for even tolerating forums such as these with all the bad 'pub" that they seem to receive. The silent majority sit back and enjoy their Logitech products.It is unfortunate that not enough times do the silent majority speak up in time to save a reputation! Logitech tolerates these forums out of selflessness and because it is a vehicle for assistance in the functionality of their sophisticated products. And, their products are VERY good and producing good products must be their goal.The products ,to me, speak for themselves. The "music in the middle of the room" is what I appreciate. I believe that when someone is winning that they deserve some slack. IMHO

SJobson
2010-02-05, 10:44
Since it's not possible to buy the Classic now, it's clear Logitech did intend to release the Touch sooner; it's not just a third party who shipped it early, it was clearly intended to be available last year and a release date was widely given as I recall (too far back to remember clearly now).

I'm still sticking with my pre-order but Logitech does have it within its power to let us know what is going on.

mlsstl
2010-02-05, 11:00
If it were not for forums such as these, we may not even be aware that there have been any delays.

If you spend a minute or two on Google you'll find that when the release of the Touch was delayed from December to February, it was widely covered on many of the gadget and tech product web sites. It certainly wasn't a secret limited to these forums. I have no doubt that yesterday's comment by Andyg of a "couple more months" delay will be equally well covered.

I guess this is where you and I differ. While I have no problem with Logitech doing what they need to do to bring a good consumer product to market, their handling of the situation with respect to their pre-order and existing customers has been poor. I sure don't look at this as part of a "winning" streak!

I call things as I see them. I have no obligation as a customer to help them paper over their poor PR decisions.

It is also a situation where they can change how they've handled things to date starting at any moment they choose. I wish they would.

iPhone
2010-02-05, 11:21
Usually when there are repeated delays on a new product its a bust.I see multiple problems with the touch if it every gets released.

Since you don't own one, why don't you keep your opinion to yourself until you do! And just how exactly do you see multiple problems with the Touch when again you don't own one?! How can you make such a statement without ever touching or using a Touch?

The Touch is stable. I use mine for hours everyday without any issues. It has been this way for months. Touch has been working fine as a direct SB3 replacement with FLAC for months.

The issue is not one of stability in my opinion (and again I have one), this word is being misused in my opinion. In my opinion, the Firmware is stable. The bugs are being wrapped up, TinySBS is being finalized, and adjustments/additions are being made so that the Touch will perform the features that are listed on the outside of the box.

TinySBS is one of the features that should make this product much more Mass Market Friendly/Acceptable especially for those that don't want to run a PC or Server. TinySBS is working at this point, but it is my opinion that it is not to the point of being idiot proof which is probably one of the things holding the Touch release back.

There aren't going to be any changes to the hardware. The hardware is finished and works fine. Touch Squeezeboxes are piled up in warehouses just waiting to be released once the Firmware covers all the features advertised and is finalized for release.

The subject is not the hardware but the Firmware. And like all Software/Firmware development, setting goals and reaching them is always hard. Firmware tends to be more serial then parallel, sure a few things can be done at the same time, but many of the major functions/features have to be knocked out one at a time.

And in defense of the guys that are working hard everyday to finish up Touch, the new Firmware releases Beta users are receiving are better with each release.

Lastly, if I could buy 5 Touch units today with its current Firmware release, I would. That is how stable it is and how well it already does what I need and want it to do.

m1abrams
2010-02-05, 11:34
If the only holdup on the Touch is TinySBC or TinySBS whatever it is called that really bums me because I will never ever use that feature of the Touch. Be nice if they would release it without that feature and then add the feature later when ready and then do a "rerelease" of the product maybe even in slightly different packaging that announces this new feature that makes it more mass market friendly.

I would have a touch now if I could get one and probably be more than happy with it.

gellie
2010-02-05, 11:49
I Thought this forum is open to all opinions? Where do you come off telling anybody what he should think about a company mishandling a new product. Step away from the koolaid and stop being such a fanboy.

mbonsack
2010-02-05, 12:16
Firmware tends to be more serial then parallel, sure a few things can be done at the same time, but many of the major functions/features have to be knocked out one at a time.

And in defense of the guys that are working hard everyday to finish up Touch, the new Firmware releases Beta users are receiving are better with each release.


The problem is not this normal characteristic of SW development. And, as I mentioned in the general forum in another post, the guys doing the Touch dev deserve big kudos. Rather, it is the wholesale gutting of the Squeeze team with no announcement, in a more public place or in these forums, as to why. To me that can only mean one thing -- that Logitech believes, in its current form, the Squeeze line does not represent a solid revenue stream going forward. And that's what scares the long-term Slim/Squeeze supporters.

aubuti
2010-02-05, 12:56
If the only holdup on the Touch is TinySBC or TinySBS whatever it is called that really bums me because I will never ever use that feature of the Touch. Be nice if they would release it without that feature and then add the feature later when ready and then do a "rerelease" of the product maybe even in slightly different packaging that announces this new feature that makes it more mass market friendly.
I'm sure you're not alone in that view. The problem is that the marketing so far as advertised the feature, and apparently it is even stated as a feature on the printed retail boxes that are sitting in the warehouses waiting to be shipped. I suppose they could go in with buckets of "white out" or rolls of white adhesive tape for the retail boxes, but I'm sure that would be confusing for consumers. The powers that be at Logitech have apparently decided that that confusion is a bigger problem than the extended delay in releasing the Touch.

m1abrams
2010-02-05, 13:31
I'm sure you're not alone in that view. The problem is that the marketing so far as advertised the feature, and apparently it is even stated as a feature on the printed retail boxes that are sitting in the warehouses waiting to be shipped. I suppose they could go in with buckets of "white out" or rolls of white adhesive tape for the retail boxes, but I'm sure that would be confusing for consumers. The powers that be at Logitech have apparently decided that that confusion is a bigger problem than the extended delay in releasing the Touch.

At this point it would be nice if they offered maybe an extended beta test to people like us who would love to pay to beta test the product.

aubuti
2010-02-05, 13:56
At this point it would be nice if they offered maybe an extended beta test to people like us who would love to pay to beta test the product.
Hint: When you propose that to Logitech, deny you ever said that you would "never ever" use the feature of the Touch that is now the main focus of the beta testing.... ;o)

BrianB
2010-02-05, 15:18
I have been enjoying my Squeezes so much and our home is filled with beautiful music.

Some of us don't have "squeezes", so it's completely different to wait. For you, it's a possible upgrade. For many, it's about weighing all the options current and future. Given that we don't even know when The Touch will be available, we can't even say what the future will be in regards to Logitech's product line. Add in that they don't know when that will be enough to release any official date, and it's really just a fantasy at this point.


apparently it is even stated as a feature on the printed retail boxes that are sitting in the warehouses waiting to be shipped... The powers that be at Logitech have apparently decided that that confusion is a bigger problem than the extended delay in releasing the Touch.

That's actually even more worrisome. Clearly it was not "expected" if they already have them in boxes which list a feature that was never ready to go when they made and packed the boxes. And then are they going to open every box and update them or are they going to ship them without the update and have thousands of consumers updating them at home when they get them? If it's the former, then we can expect more delays. If it's the latter, then we can expect even more confusion, because they will be selling a product with an advertised feature that is only available after an upgrade. Sounds like they'd need the white out or supplement labels in that scenario as well.

Basically, Logitech was forced into a delay and chose to add confusion on top of that. Again, what it comes down to is that support is paramount when buying technology and good communication is essential for good support. I'm not worried about the delay. I am worried about the communication infrastructure as it will apply to the support of the product when released. And, now, after reading your post, I am worried about in what kind of condition the product will be released when it is released: updated and ready to go, or as is needing the update after purchase. Based on the current situation we probably won't know until our credit cards have been charged and the product has been shipped out of those warehouses.

It really just comes down to communication and transparency. I think Logitech has chosen confusion for a reason. The bean counter has predicted that current Squeeze owners will excuse it and that the current confusion will be more often trumped by the promise of their marketing materials and the possible hope of prospective buyers that it will actually work as promised whenever it is actually released. For me, that comes at the cost of confidence in the company and maybe it is time to shut up and cancel the pre-order until more information is available.

bluegaspode
2010-02-05, 15:21
If it's the latter, then we can expect even more confusion, because they will be selling a product with an advertised feature that is only available after an upgrade.
All devices download the latest official firmware automatically upon first start (you cannot opt out). So they can ship the boxes as they are.
Seems to work well already with the Radio.

sebp
2010-02-05, 15:45
And then are they going to open every box and update them or are they going to ship them without the update and have thousands of consumers updating them at home when they get them?
The Touch set up wizard will download and install the latest firmware release automatically.
It's not an option but a mandatory step in the installation process.

Yes, it does mean that you need a working broadband Internet connection for the initial set up to complete.
But yes, it's also clearly printed on the box that a broadband Internet connection is part of the prerequisites for using the Touch.

aubuti
2010-02-05, 15:54
Clearly it was not "expected" if they already have them in boxes which list a feature that was never ready to go when they made and packed the boxes. And then are they going to open every box and update them or are they going to ship them without the update and have thousands of consumers updating them at home when they get them?
What clearly wasn't expected? You don't need the final software/firmware ready in order to produce the hardware. Usually you get the functional firmware in place, and start hardware production while continuing to work on improving the software, adding features and squashing bugs. The plan was for the firmware and software to be ready by the time they had a good number of SBTs produced and distributed to warehouses. Obviously the amount of time required for the software and firmware was underestimated.

When the user sets up the SBT the firmware gets pushed to the SBT, the device reboots, the user proceeds. That's how the SB Radio was done, and the SB Duet, and SB3, etc. It's quite standard for a lot of consumer electronics (computers, routers, printers, etc) to require updating to the latest software version at installation time.

There's no excuse for Logitech not at least emailing everyone who has a pre-order with them to update them on the status, even if the update is "we still can't give you a firm date". No communication at all is awful customer relations.

BrianB
2010-02-05, 16:12
What clearly wasn't expected?... The plan was for the firmware and software to be ready by the time they had a good number of SBTs produced and distributed to warehouses. Obviously the amount of time required for the software and firmware was underestimated.

Hence, unexpected.

aubuti
2010-02-05, 17:56
Hence, unexpected.
Oh that. Yes, that's clear.

HectorHughMunro
2010-02-06, 14:01
I think that seems to be the current tag line for the Touch. I'm not whining, I'm just pointing out that their current strategy doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the product or in Logictech. That is, they're featuring it prominently in marketing and soliciting pre-orders, yet they can't provide a release date or any official information about the delay. I want the Touch to be what those like you with faith in it assume it will be. But, right now, it's just a phantom product that may or may not be any good.

Seriously, any information from Logitech other than "just trust us and pre-order now" would go a long way towards gaining some confidence in Logitech and the product.

Brian's point is a good one. Having taken our orders, Logitech have a moral contract contract with us that is at the edge of being breached. I shouldn't be finding out from Engadget that my order is further delayed.

We're months overdue now without any kind of email from the company.

FredFredrickson
2010-02-08, 07:58
Brian's point is a good one. Having taken our orders, Logitech have a moral contract contract with us that is at the edge of being breached. I shouldn't be finding out from Engadget that my order is further delayed.

We're months overdue now without any kind of email from the company.

On a similar note, I'm still angry my pre-order of Duke Nukem Forever hasn't been filled. I haven't heard a thing from gamestop. What's going on??

mlsstl
2010-02-08, 09:16
On a similar note, I'm still angry my pre-order of Duke Nukem Forever hasn't been filled. I haven't heard a thing from gamestop. What's going on??

Another person who has one making light of the complaints of those who don't.

Anyone notice a pattern?

I think Marie Antoinette already covered this subject.

;-)

FredFredrickson
2010-02-08, 09:36
Another person who has one making light of the complaints of those who don't.

Anyone notice a pattern?

I think Marie Antoinette already covered this subject.

;-)

LOL, true - but that being said, I'm anxious for the release because I want one for each room!

adamslim
2010-02-08, 12:56
The Touch release has been a cock-up, not doubt about it, but surely you can understand Logitech's reluctance to publicise an exact release date?

It's just an information thing. As it stands I have an open-ended commitment to have my credit card sucked of £200-odd with no notice, and I have had that since October. A quick email saying, "we're sorry, but we want to make sure we get it right this time. We'll make sure you have at least two weeks' notice, and keep you informed of any changes" goes a long way.

But most of all, I'm irritated as I got cut from the beta programme. Despite filing bugs and stuff!

dave77
2010-02-08, 15:52
It's just an information thing. As it stands I have an open-ended commitment to have my credit card sucked of £200-odd with no notice, and I have had that since October. A quick email saying, "we're sorry, but we want to make sure we get it right this time. We'll make sure you have at least two weeks' notice, and keep you informed of any changes" goes a long way.

It's getting behond a joke to be honest, as long as Logitech honour the pre-orders i'll be happy.

mlsstl
2010-02-09, 17:00
It's just an information thing. As it stands I have an open-ended commitment to have my credit card sucked of £200-odd with no notice, and I have had that since October. A quick email saying, "we're sorry, but we want to make sure we get it right this time. We'll make sure you have at least two weeks' notice, and keep you informed of any changes" goes a long way.

Apparently Logitech adheres to the public relations school that says "hunker down and maybe no one will notice."

Unfortunately a lot of the tech web sites are noticing. Techblips at dailyradar.com opened with this sentence: "Things aren't looking very good for Logitech's SqueezeBox Touch..."

A Google search shows the story of the new delay has easily hit a half dozen or more tech news sites and every story noted this was a new delay on top of a previous delay.

You'd think that would draw some type of official explanation but I gather that just isn't the way Logitech does business. Seems odd to me, but then I'm not the one who has to deal with it.

tomasito
2010-02-09, 20:47
If it's a software problem? Then Logitech doesn't know how to fix the problem. It's now almost half a year since I place my pre-order, which makes me think twice of the product I will receive, if ever I receive it.

aubuti
2010-02-09, 21:55
The "software problem" is mostly rewriting the scanner code and modifying the server so that they will run on the Touch's modest hardware. You can call it a "problem" or a "fix", but I would say it is more of a major development effort than that. And yes, it is taking much longer than anyone expected.

mortslim
2010-02-10, 01:42
the Touch's modest hardware.

What "modest" means is relative. Modest compared to what?

If the hardware is too modest, is there any possibility to boost the hardware specs rather than keep slimming down the software?

Yes, I understand the rumors that the hardware is finished and sitting in unmarked warehouses, but maybe a redesign and remanufacture of the hardware from scratch might be just the ticket? (Admittedly pure speculation)

DaveWr
2010-02-10, 02:25
Maybe Logitech should OEM a Sheevaplug, we might get a real server, and no issues with TinySC and all the this doesn't work, this is different etc.

IMHO the Touch is neither a slim device or a full device - it's in some no man's land, with excessive compromises.

Dave

aubuti
2010-02-10, 07:26
What "modest" means is relative. Modest compared to what?

If the hardware is too modest, is there any possibility to boost the hardware specs rather than keep slimming down the software?

Yes, I understand the rumors that the hardware is finished and sitting in unmarked warehouses, but maybe a redesign and remanufacture of the hardware from scratch might be just the ticket? (Admittedly pure speculation)
Yes, modest is relative. Since we were talking about running SBS, I meant modest compared to most of the PCs that people use to run SBS. And given Moore's Law, it's no doubt more modest than what they would design if they were starting today instead of in mid-2008. (I don't know for sure, but that's my guesstimate of when it was on the drawing board, based on knowing that the first units reached beta testers in Dec 2008.)

I don't know about the warehouses being unmarked (makes no sense to me), but the rumors about the hardware being finished are true. That's how one was accidentally sold last summer (northern hemisphere) by an overeager retailer, and why beta testers haven't seen new hardware since before that. That's also why the developers who frequent these forums say the hardware is done and what remains is to resolve the software issues. There's no way I can imagine Logitech recalling however many units they've already produced and either trashing them or swapping out hardware to make them more powerful. I suspect that would only compound the losses they're taking on this.

Ikabob
2010-02-10, 07:53
Aubuti, I do have faith in Logitech. I am forever an optimist. However, I do think it would be much more professional, business-like and ethical to at least release some official statement to their loyal,supportive and faithful customers regarding this delay for the Touch as well as the Radio battery. The release could just reinforce my beliefs that things are progressing satisfactorily albeit slower than expected. It would certainly build my confidence in Logitech and make me feel much more comfortable about my pre-ordered Touches. What do you think? Am I wrong?

aubuti
2010-02-10, 08:12
What do you think? Am I wrong?
Ikabob, I'm not sure why you're directing the question at me. I've said on several occasions in various threads that Logitech's silence on this issue is bad customer relations. At a minimum, I think they should communicate with those who have pre-orders. Even though a lot of customers would not be satisfied with message of "Thanks for your pre-order. We are experiencing unexpected delays and will get your Touch to you as soon as we can. But we still can't give you a firm date, so let us know if you'd like to cancel your pre-order.", in my view it would be much better than remaining silent. I would hope that they are communicating with their resellers, but who knows?

I know that what people really want is a firm release date, but setting those dates is a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't proposition, especially at this stage. I don't think that's going to happen until it's really ready to go.

jwagner010
2010-02-10, 08:16
Stay away. I wouldn't get stuck with one of these things. I am waiting before puttig any cash up. Where there is smoke there is fire. !!!!!

FredFredrickson
2010-02-10, 09:28
Stay away. I wouldn't get stuck with one of these things. I am waiting before puttig any cash up. Where there is smoke there is fire. !!!!!

The delays are really annoying, and the silence is deafening, but I can say as a beta tester, the units themselves are just great.

I think it's very likely logitech is taking their sweet time to iron out every kink and polish the product, since many people complained they didn't feel the duet controller was quite ready when it was released. I'm sure they're trying to avoid that scenario.

The todo list in the bug tracker doesn't seem terribly large, and I'm not sure if it's public, but if it is, you could always watch that as a moderate indicator of a release time frame.

As far as I'm concerned, as a beta tester, the major issues I had been reporting have been fixed just this week, so I'm sure they're very close. Those guys are working non-stop as far as I can see- I chat with Andy way later than he should be working!

I think they just want their product to be perfect. I don't speak for them, however, I'm not affiliated at all. A word from the horses mouth would put all of us at ease!

Ikabob
2010-02-10, 09:34
Thank you Mr.Fred (beta tester)....your comments are reassuring, even though you don't represent Logitech. Like I said I do have faith in Logitech!

didbox
2010-02-10, 12:23
Here is a link to the remaining bugs: https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&priority=P2&priority=P3&query_format=advanced&order=Importance&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&target_milestone=7.5.0

iPhone
2010-02-10, 21:01
Stay away. I wouldn't get stuck with one of these things. I am waiting before puttig any cash up. Where there is smoke there is fire. !!!!!

Again, another comment from somebody that has no information, no knowledge, isn't a Beta Tester, and most likely has never seen a Touch in person much less laid hands on one or used one!

There can't be any fire because there is no heat much less smoke. Again the units are already produced and waiting in warehouses for release when the production Firmware and SBS software goes Gold.

And lastly, what is this crap about putting up any cash? I'm fairly positive Logitech hasn't charged anybody's CC? And in most countries it is illegal to charge a credit card unless the company has the item and in some cases even until it "Actually" ships. If one is dealing with Logitech or Amazon, it is completely safe to pre-order.

mortslim
2010-02-10, 22:06
Here is a link to the remaining bugs: https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&priority=P2&priority=P3&query_format=advanced&order=Importance&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&target_milestone=7.5.0

As a non-engineer with absolutely no coding knowledge at all, my observations of the buglist are:

1. There seem to be a lot of bugs.
2. The number of engineers working on the bugs seems small compared to the number of bugs.
3. I thought the software was the already working slim server software used on desktop computers with just some modules cut out to fit into the smaller memory size of the Touch, thus if it was already working on desktop computers, how could there be all these bugs (assuming the software for desktop computers doesn't have the same bugs)?

aubuti
2010-02-11, 01:10
As for (3), I believe that is the list for all open bugs, not Touch-specific bugs. If you look at the list you'll see that only some of the bugs are specific to the Touch (eg, Bugs 15627 and 15349). Some others (eg, 15164) apply to all SqueezeOS players, including Touch, Radio, and SBC. Some others apply more generically to 7.4.2 and others apply more generically to 7.5.0.

For the bugs that are SBS bugs, most are present in the desktop version as well. Don't forget that not all open bugs are squashed before a version is released.

toby10
2010-02-11, 06:54
There are over 100 bugs still "open" for the SB2 and SB3, both of which have been on the market for years, and both are discontinued.
It's an ongoing process. Not every single Touch bug will be 100% resolved prior to it's release (I presume).

funkstar
2010-02-11, 07:33
There are over 100 bugs still "open" for the SB2 and SB3, both of which have been on the market for years, and both are discontinued.
It's an ongoing process. Not every single Touch bug will be 100% resolved prior to it's release (I presume).
Going even further back, there was a bug for long enough for the SB requesting FLAC playback. it may have been closed now, but it hung about for a long time even though it was impossible to implement.

FredFredrickson
2010-02-11, 07:39
I think a good marker for release time is to pay attention to the P1 bugs for touch.

eganders
2010-02-11, 08:14
i think a good marker for release time is to pay attention to the p1 bugs for touch.

+1

FredFredrickson
2010-02-11, 08:50
There may be more squeezeplay related bugs before launch, but the touch bugs list that appear to be high priority for 7.5 are listed here:

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&version=unspecified&version=7.5.0&product=SB%20Touch

It's not that bad guys.

Edit:
In fact, the bug list for ALL devices P1 target 7.5 is not much bigger:
https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&query_format=advanced&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&target_milestone=7.5.0

SteveEast
2010-02-11, 08:57
There may be more squeezeplay related bugs before launch, but the touch bugs list that appear to be high priority for 7.5 are listed here:

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&version=unspecified&version=7.5.0&product=SB%20Touch

It's not that bad guys.

I think you have to look at all P1 bugs targeted for 7.5.0 since the release will be for all platforms. Good news is it only makes the bug list go from 26 to 32. That includes 1 unconfirmed bug.

Steve.

FredFredrickson
2010-02-11, 09:17
I think you have to look at all P1 bugs targeted for 7.5.0 since the release will be for all platforms. Good news is it only makes the bug list go from 26 to 32. That includes 1 unconfirmed bug.

Steve.

Maybe a cross post, my edited second link ;)

funkstar
2010-02-11, 09:23
I think a good marker for release time is to pay attention to the P1 bugs for touch.
I'm pretty sure the devs have said P1 and P2 bugs are the ones to pay attention to.

BrianB
2010-02-11, 14:21
another comment from somebody that has no information...

Exactly. No one has any information, because Logitech doesn't want to share. We can really dork out and parse some bug lists, but the only real complaint is that there is no information. That's their choice, but I don't think people should be attacking the casual observer who justifiably is skeptical of the product because it's delayed indefinitely with no other information. It's not their fault that they have no information or no knowledge. That's the way Logitech wants it and its perfectly reasonable for people to assume there is a reason for it.

toby10
2010-02-11, 16:02
Going even further back, there was a bug for long enough for the SB requesting FLAC playback. it may have been closed now, but it hung about for a long time even though it was impossible to implement.

I'm still waiting for the 8-track plugin. :)

sleepysurf
2010-02-11, 17:16
Looking over the bug list, I wonder if Logitech has "bitten off more than they can chew" with their aspirations for what the Touch can do. I always thought streaming lossless (ideally 24/96) files from a hard drive/internet was going to simplify audio playback. Now, it looks like it might be easier to rewrite all the code that makes Toyotas go (and sometimes stop)!

R Johnson
2010-02-11, 18:03
I've been reading these discussions for a while. One of the items in the buglist caught my attention: 15192 - "Unable to use Touch as a standalone music player without network".

That's exactly what I'd like to do -- connect a USB hard drive (loaded with content at another location) to a SB Touch, and then connect the Touch to my AVR, using the Touch's screen to select the music.

Apart from needing a network connection for initial (or later) firmware update, can/will the Touch operate that way? Or will I need to look elsewhere?

JJZolx
2010-02-11, 18:28
Apart from needing a network connection for initial (or later) firmware update, can/will the Touch operate that way? Or will I need to look elsewhere?

It should. Being part of the beta testing, though, it's sometimes surprising to see how simple things like this fall through the cracks just because none of the developers (and none of the more numerous beta testers) happen to have their systems configured in a certain way. Everybody has their Touch on a network. Most are connected wirelessly. Those networks have Internet access. Most libraries are in FLAC, with some MP3 thrown in.

MrSinatra
2010-02-12, 01:17
Surely not April 1st?
:-)

MC

i predicted that first in another thread! very apropo!

we should all pick a date, (that one's mine) and once picked, no one else can have it, and whoever is right gets a free sb2 or something they have on the shelf gathering dust.

dave77
2010-02-12, 02:12
Looking over the bug list, I wonder if Logitech has "bitten off more than they can chew" with their aspirations for what the Touch can do. I always thought streaming lossless (ideally 24/96) files from a hard drive/internet was going to simplify audio playback. Now, it looks like it might be easier to rewrite all the code that makes Toyotas go (and sometimes stop)!

I agree, some of them do look a bit worrying!

NeilT
2010-02-12, 03:13
was "Too much whining after months of beta" (15391)

Neil

gellie
2010-02-12, 10:12
WOW some list of bugs! The only chance of this thing coming out by April if its April 2011!

R Johnson
2010-02-12, 10:39
It should. Being part of the beta testing, though, it's sometimes surprising to see how simple things like this fall through the cracks ...
Thanks for the reply! I've been using the WDTV media player in standalone mode quite successfully for HD video playback to my projector. (The newer WDTV Live model added network capability.) The WDTV will play music quite nicely (though undoubtedly not at audiophile quality). However, I don't want to fire up a projector (or even a TV) just to choose the music.

Hence, the SB Touch looks (looked?) like the perfect device for me. Plug the Touch analog outputs into my AVR, and plug a USB drive into the Touch. (I'd need to buy another drive for music files since my current drives are NTFS for large HD video files.)

There seems to have been no work on 15192 since mid December. I'll be very disappointed if it turns out that the Touch will not operate in standalone mode.

iPhone
2010-02-12, 11:23
There seems to have been no work on 15192 since mid December. I'll be very disappointed if it turns out that the Touch will not operate in standalone mode.

The Touch works well in Standalone Mode (TinySBS). It is just a little rough around the edges and of course will not have all the features/advantages of the WebUI Server SBS version. I am using a 640 GB USB powered Toshiba USB drive in the Expedition and when at the cabin and a 2TB Seagate USB drive at the house.

Don't hold me to this, but I think I remember the NTFS issue being resolved. But if it hasn't been already, from everything I have heard it will be a supported drive format.

The Logitech people are working hard to knock out the current Bugzilla list for Touch.

Phil Leigh
2010-02-12, 13:01
...It's not their fault that they have no information or no knowledge. That's the way Logitech wants it and its perfectly reasonable for people to assume there is a reason for it.

The Internet (and life in general) would be a far better place if people refrained from proferring their opinion on matters of which they have precisely zero knowledge. That categorically IS their fault...

mlsstl
2010-02-12, 14:51
The Internet (and life in general) would be a far better place if people refrained from proferring their opinion on matters of which they have precisely zero knowledge. That categorically IS their fault...

Unfortunately, however idealistic that thought, that isn't the way people think in real situations. And no amount of hoping or lecturing will change it.

The simple truth? If there is an information void, people will generate their own speculation to fill it. The second part of that corollary is when the keeper of the correct knowledge chooses to stay silent, the gossip that ends up on the street is almost always far more dramatic.

It may be that Logitech is betting that the adverse rumors making the rounds will stay confined to a relatively small group and any negative publicity will pale in comparison when the product is released to a larger public that was never aware of the soap opera.

However, that is a gamble that corporations sometimes lose. There has to be at least one potential fall guy at Logitech that isn't going to sleep well until this is all over. Glad it's not me....

mortslim
2010-02-12, 15:17
The simple truth? If there is an information void, people will generate their own speculation to fill it. The second part of that corollary is when the keeper of the correct knowledge chooses to stay silent, the gossip that ends up on the street is almost always far more dramatic.

Rabbi Nachtner: We can't know everything.
Larry Gopnik: It sounds like you don't know anything! Why even tell me the story?
Rabbi Nachtner: [chuckling] First I should tell you, then I shouldn't.
Larry Gopnik: What happened to Sussman?
Rabbi Nachtner: What would happen? Not much. He went back to work. For a while he checked every patient's teeth for new messages. He didn't find any. In time, he found he'd stopped checking. He returned to life. These questions that are bothering you, Larry - maybe they're like a toothache. We feel them for a while, then they go away.
Larry Gopnik: I don't want it to just go away! I want an answer!
Rabbi Nachtner: Sure! We all want the answer! But Hashem doesn't owe us the answer, Larry. Hashem doesn't owe us anything. The obligation runs the other way.
Larry Gopnik: Why does he make us feel the questions if he's not gonna give us any answers?
Rabbi Nachtner: He hasn't told me.
[Larry puts his face in his hands in despair]
Larry Gopnik: And... what happened to the goy?
Rabbi Nachtner: The goy? Who cares?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1019452/quotes

NeilT
2010-02-12, 15:29
Yesterday there were 74 bugs (P1 or P2), today there are 59. I think they are getting through them quite quickly now that Andy has sorted out getting the touch to scan/rescan attached drives. Not that I check that often or anything.....I mean I do have other things to do with my life.

Neil

mortslim
2010-02-12, 15:35
There has to be at least one potential fall guy at Logitech that isn't going to sleep well until this is all over.

As Rashi puts it: “Conduct yourself with Him with simplicity and depend on Him, and do not inquire of the future; rather, accept whatever happens to you with simplicity and then, you will be with Him and to His portion.” Or, as Rabbi Marshak says at the end of the film, “When the truth is found to be lies and all the hope within you dies, then what? … Be a good boy.“

http://theamericanscene.com/2009/10/09/Some+Thoughts+on+A+Serious+Man

R Johnson
2010-02-12, 16:07
The Touch works well in Standalone Mode (TinySBS). It is just a little rough around the edges ....

Don't hold me to this, but I think I remember the NTFS issue being resolved. But if it hasn't been already, from everything I have heard it will be a supported drive format. ..
Thanks!
I can live with a rough edge or two.
NTFS would be nice, but I don't have a problem with needing to buy an extra portable drive, assuming they still come with FAT32 formatting.

I have three Western Digital "My Passport" drives. The new models come with two partitions - the main one, plus a tiny one that "emulates" a CD which is where their backup and other utility software is placed. Would the Touch be able to deal with such a drive?

JohnSwenson
2010-02-12, 17:11
The Touch works fine with NTFS USB drives. There was a time when it didn't, but that was added quite a while ago.

There was a short time when the Touch could not be used unless it was connected to the net, but that was quickly fixed. There are enough people using it completely off grid that something like that will get discovered and fixed very quickly during beta test.

John S.

R Johnson
2010-02-12, 17:34
The Touch works fine with NTFS USB drives. .... There was a short time when the Touch could not be used unless it was connected to the net, but that was quickly fixed.
Thanks very much!
I can now just wait for the Touch's release with confidence that it will do what I hoped it would. Patience is a virtue, so I'm told.

usch
2010-02-12, 17:38
The Touch works well in Standalone Mode (TinySBS).
What about the mandatory internet connection during setup? Is that required only during the very first initialization, or does it need to connect after each factory reset, too?

iPhone
2010-02-12, 17:48
What about the mandatory internet connection during setup? Is that required only during the very first initialization, or does it need to connect after each factory reset, too?

Yes after a Factory Reset one needs the Internet again. But I have found a workaround that still is available with current Firmware. Powering down to move from house to Expedition to Cabin to Expedition and back to house once updated with the first Internet connection is no problem. So once a new purchased Touch gets its first Internet Firmware DL, it is fine without an Internet Connection as long as one doesn't do a Factory Reset.

JJZolx
2010-02-12, 18:53
What about the mandatory internet connection during setup? Is that required only during the very first initialization, or does it need to connect after each factory reset, too?

With the factory firmware it is necessary to have an internet connection so that you can upgrade the firmware to the most recent available. I don't recall for certain, but it may also be possible to update the firmware if you have a local SbS on your network and it has a more recent firmware. Considering that the factory software will be at least eight months old by the time the Touch goes on sale, you wouldn't want to skip this step.

With newer firmware, it's no longer a part of the initial setup to connect to the internet and do a firmware upgrade. There is a step in the setup where you're asked to create a mysqueezebox.com account for the player, but this can be bypassed by left-right swiping the screen. I haven't tried it recently, but without an internet connection it may also timeout and then let you proceed to the Home menu.

FredFredrickson
2010-02-12, 20:29
With the factory firmware it is necessary to have an internet so that you can upgrade the firmware to the most recent available. I don't recall for certain, but it may also be possible to update the firmware if you have a local SbS on your network and it has a more recent firmware. Considering that the factory software will be at least eight months old by the time the Touch goes on sale, you wouldn't want to skip this step.

With newer firmware, it's no longer a part of the initial setup to connect to the internet and do a firmware upgrade. There is a step in the setup where you're asked to create a mysqueezebox.com account for the player, but this can be bypassed by left-right swiping the screen. I haven't tried it recently, but without an internet connection it may also timeout and then let you proceed to the Home menu.

Yes, the factory set firmware's job was basic playback and firmware updates (which it does well). Don't skip this step. If you need to, copying firmware to a USB stick and starting the touch with the USB plugged in should do the trick too.

usch
2010-02-13, 07:25
If you need to, copying firmware to a USB stick and starting the touch with the USB plugged in should do the trick too.
Thanks, that's good to know. I guess you have to put a file with a magic name in the root directory. Is that procedure documented somewhere?

signor_rossi
2010-02-13, 14:12
Thanks, that's good to know. I guess you have to put a file with a magic name in the root directory. Is that procedure documented somewhere?

Probably the same procedure as with the Controller and the Firmware on a SD Card. Just guessing. :-)

tomasito
2010-02-17, 22:17
what's the latest about the date of release... silence would mean it's not realeasing any soon, or logitech would have made a big buzz about it

mlsstl
2010-02-18, 09:54
what's the latest about the date of release... silence would mean it's not realeasing any soon, or logitech would have made a big buzz about it

Given Logitech's poor history of handling this situation, I would strongly suspect they've instructed all employees to just keep their mouths shut.

I'd imagine no date will be given until that date has actually arrived.

adamslim
2010-02-18, 13:49
Begs the question as to why then have a subforum about it. One that starts with a press release from early September announcing the product.

mlsstl
2010-02-18, 14:53
Begs the question as to why then have a subforum about it. One that starts with a press release from early September announcing the product.

I'd suspect that is a relic of the days before the master plan went south on them.

;-)

iPhone
2010-02-18, 14:54
Begs the question as to why then have a subforum about it. One that starts with a press release from early September announcing the product.

Maybe because the cat was out of the bag and They thought it would be released in a few months. The press release was to stop inaccurate speculation, the product was outed, and Logitech was releasing the SB Radio.

The sub-forum was created so that Beta Testers could answer questions that Squeezebox Users had due to Touch being outed while at the same time not making the Beta Touch sub-forum public due to continued development.

SJobson
2010-02-19, 17:54
Logitech would not have started production simply to stockpile a large number for the release date - they must have expected to be able to sell them.

funkstar
2010-02-20, 09:47
Logitech would not have started production simply to stockpile a large number for the release date - they must have expected to be able to sell them.
The plan was to have the units in stock and ready to go as soon as the software was ready. That way they could come in with a bang "here is this brand new unit with a brand new architecture and way of doing things, and you can buy one right now!" It's just things didn't work out that way. Instead of waiting for the factory to ramp up production, we are waiting for the software to be ready.But pretty much as soon as they push the button on 7.5, the touch will be at retailers and ready to ship.

tomasito
2010-02-22, 21:41
February is coming to an end and no touch in sight

verypsb
2010-02-22, 23:44
February is coming to an end and no touch in sight

Expected in March/April.

DaveKen
2010-02-23, 02:30
Expected in March/April.

Says who?

usch
2010-02-23, 03:14
Says who?
Continuity. We are expecting the Touch "next month" since October.

Maybe there's a causality. Everytime when somebody asks "When will the Touch be released?", the release date is postponed for another week. So just stop asking, and it will be there. ;)

tomasito
2010-02-23, 07:46
My buddy works as an OJT with logitech in the fremont office. He said that he heard that the touch most likely will be released near the end of the year, most likely christmas

There maybe some truth in what my friend at logitech told me a couple of months ago.

verypsb
2010-02-23, 09:10
Says who?

Search the forums... Some developers said they expect SqueezeboxServer 7.5 to be ready in March/April. If it isn't ready in March/April then the Touch will be delayed further, I guess... I wouldn't expect it before April..., but that's just speculating.

aubuti
2010-02-23, 09:17
Search the forums... Some developers said they expect SqueezeboxServer 7.5 to be ready in March/April. If it isn't ready in March/April then the Touch will be delayed further, I guess... I wouldn't expect it before April..., but that's just speculating.
Try this same thread, in which andyg said "we're looking at a couple of months until release" (post #46 on Feb 4th).

mlsstl
2010-02-23, 09:34
Continuity. We are expecting the Touch "next month" since October.

Maybe there's a causality. Everytime when somebody asks "When will the Touch be released?", the release date is postponed for another week. So just stop asking, and it will be there. ;)

This whole affair has turned into an Abbott & Costello routine.

"Who's on first...?"

And, maybe they can hire Charlie Chan to look for the missing Duet receivers.

;-)

iPhone
2010-02-23, 09:44
Try this same thread, in which andyg said "we're looking at a couple of months until release" (post #46 on Feb 4th).

They probably are waiting for April so they can do the April First announcement like they used to at Slim Devices and then probably actually release it April 2nd! ;=} (Joking and Speculation)

Look guys, warehouse space costs money so touch is going to get released sooner rather then later. I think once the firmware/software is right and ready, we will see a quick release and I believe that will be this Spring well before Christmas. As a Beta Touch User, I can tell you the Touch is very usable at this point. It is more polished everyday and I feel TinySBS is the only thing that isn't yet consumer proof (read ready enough for the masses as Logitech thinks it should be).

I just wish that those of us that wanted to could sign a waiver and get our Touch units today. I need 5 right now and probably more like 9 or 10.

sleepysurf
2010-02-23, 10:45
... I just wish that those of us that wanted to could sign a waiver and get our Touch units today. I need 5 right now and probably more like 9 or 10.

Now THAT would be a smart move for Logitech. Just like Oppo did with their late-beta BDP-83 release, it would appease the small subset of us that are clamoring to get the Touch into their system, even if not quite-ready-for-prime-time.

Frankly, Logitech is losing a LOT of marketshare to rivals who are rolling (or about to roll out) 24/96 capable streamers. I have been a longtime fan of the Squeezebox (own four currently) but am now seriously looking at other options for both high-end and casual listening in my home.

tomasito
2010-02-23, 22:33
sleepysurf,
what streamers are you looking at.
I'm interested too, since the touch is as clear as mud being release.

sleepysurf
2010-02-24, 19:58
There are a number of high-end 24/96 and FLAC capable servers already on the market (Linn, PS Audio, Meridian/Sooloos) and more about to be released (Cary, others). Prices will continue to fall as competition heats up. I may end up with a Non-Squeezebox streamer in my listening room, with Squeezeboxes relegated for background use in other rooms.

Sike
2010-02-25, 03:59
@mherger

What about this:


I just wish that those of us that wanted to could sign a waiver and get our Touch units today. I need 5 right now and probably more like 9 or 10.

Don't you want a real swiss (lie) to test the touch? Can't you help a Berner out who is responsable of moving millions (slighty exaggerated) of units for Slimdevices in the past present and future? If one falls of the back of a truck I'll buy you a beer..(understated) or my first born (We can still haggle)

Sike

mherger
2010-02-25, 04:35
> Don't you want a real swiss (lie) to test the touch?

I am real, and I am Swiss too. And I do test it every day :-). Really - I'd be happy anybody (Swiss or not) could buy the device today. But it'll take a few more days/weeks before we're there...

> Can't you help a
> Berner out who is responsable of moving millions (slighty exaggerated)
> of units for Slimdevices in the past present and future? If one falls of
> the back of a truck I'll buy you a beer..(understated)

I'm sorry, don't have a truck nor drink beer :-P. But sometimes you could see me pass by on my bycicle with a SB Touch in the bag... watch the streets!

FWIW: both units I have aren't good enough for most living rooms. One has some hand soldered pins out the top, the other didn't come with the front panel cover, but only some ugly sticker with _my_ name on it instead :-)

Sike
2010-02-25, 06:22
> But sometimes you could see me pass by on my bycicle with a SB Touch in the bag... watch the streets!

I will carry an umbrella around with me to put through your spokes. Do you ride down Spital/Marktgasse a lot (I hope you were not on your bike when you took that picture...) Do you look like your picture when you are on your bike? Just so I know who to look out for :)

The unit looks ok to me. I am sure I could get someone to bend some metal for the face plate.

toby10
2010-02-25, 08:20
........
The unit looks ok to me. I am sure I could get someone to bend some metal for the face plate.

Why? The Michael Signature series sells for BIG Euros!

sebp
2010-02-25, 15:55
Why? The Michael Signature series sells for BIG Euros!
And even more Swiss Francs! ;)

Schindler
2010-02-26, 07:03
maybe...

a Herger picture? ;-)
http://images.google.ch/images?hl=de&source=hp&q=michael+herger&btnG=Bilder-Suche&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=

rblnr
2010-02-26, 08:37
Now THAT would be a smart move for Logitech. Just like Oppo did with their late-beta BDP-83 release, it would appease the small subset of us that are clamoring to get the Touch into their system, even if not quite-ready-for-prime-time.

Frankly, Logitech is losing a LOT of marketshare to rivals who are rolling (or about to roll out) 24/96 capable streamers. I have been a longtime fan of the Squeezebox (own four currently) but am now seriously looking at other options for both high-end and casual listening in my home.

Who has 24/96 capable streamers near the price?

gellie
2010-02-27, 09:59
Spoke to a logitech salesperson yesterday. Her manager told her to tell customers the touch wont be released until summer 2010. Kind of makes sense given all the software problems that are having with the beta testers. Hopefully the competion will be chomping at the bit to release a better streamer!

krochat
2010-02-27, 10:12
Spoke to a logitech salesperson yesterday. Her manager told her to tell customers the touch wont be released until summer 2010.

I note that the buglist has been pruned from 30+ a week ago to 7 now.

I'm still hoping for April 1.

( https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&priority=P2&query_format=advanced&order=Importance&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&target_milestone=7.5.0 )

Kim

tomasito
2010-03-02, 08:57
The release date is turning into a joke

dave77
2010-03-02, 10:44
The release date is turning into a joke

What release date :) If we had a release date it wouldn't be so much of a joke

andyg
2010-03-02, 10:47
They didn't like it very much when I hinted at a release date before, so unfortunately we can't tell you. But yes, there is a release date. :)

Phil Leigh
2010-03-02, 11:28
They didn't like it very much when I hinted at a release date before, so unfortunately we can't tell you. But yes, there is a release date. :)

I don't see how "2010" could have been that controversial...

mlsstl
2010-03-02, 11:30
They didn't like it very much when I hinted at a release date before, so unfortunately we can't tell you. But yes, there is a release date. :)

That's a bit too coy. I think this item from 12/15/09 qualified as a bit more than just a "hint"....

Maybe we only said this in the beta tester forum, but yes, as of now Touch will not ship until sometime in February.

Anyway, good luck with meeting your new double secret date. Hope it's this decade.

;-)

snarlydwarf
2010-03-02, 12:20
They didn't like it very much when I hinted at a release date before, so unfortunately we can't tell you. But yes, there is a release date. :)

Ah, so it's now "3 hours before the kegs get here"?

Time to start calling Bay Area beer distributors, "Hey, do you have a bunch of beer ordered for Logitech?"

Mnyb
2010-03-02, 12:23
Ah, so it's now "3 hours before the kegs get here"?

Time to start calling Bay Area beer distributors, "Hey, do you have a bunch of beer ordered for Logitech?"

He He another route would be to check when Andy or Michael has a week of from work next time :)

ram
2010-03-04, 08:38
Just had an email from Logitech UK apologizing for the delay of the Touch and they expect a release date somewhere in April-May.

c3p0
2010-03-04, 08:45
same here message from Logitech

Dear customer,

A while ago you have ordered the new Squeezebox Touch on our store. We are working hard on the release of this new product and we want to ensure we ship a high quality product. Although it is hard to give an exact date, we expect the product to be ready in the April-May time frame.

dave77
2010-03-04, 09:09
same here message from Logitech

Dear customer,

A while ago you have ordered the new Squeezebox Touch on our store. We are working hard on the release of this new product and we want to ensure we ship a high quality product. Although it is hard to give an exact date, we expect the product to be ready in the April-May time frame.

Same here, did you get another paragraph after that?

kesey
2010-03-04, 09:16
Same here, did you get another paragraph after that?

Yes, a wee sweetener.

It's a good thing that Logitech finally put pen to paper and gave a time-frame, much as I'd prefer a shorter delay than April-March.

dave77
2010-03-04, 09:21
Yes, a wee sweetener.

Not sure what to use it for though, most of the products are cheaper on Amazon even after the coupon, just noticed the red radio is out though, tempting!

local.bin
2010-03-04, 10:04
Same here.

Its a welcome email that really should have been sent months ago.

Glad I've had at least some communication at last.

gellie
2010-03-04, 10:13
Hopefully this will give Apple ample time to catch up with a competing product!

mlsstl
2010-03-04, 12:52
Same here.

Its a welcome email that really should have been sent months ago.

Glad I've had at least some communication at last.

You're right - some communication is better than none (though I haven't personally seen seen a message yet.)

However, giving themselves a two month long window for release isn't particularly impressive in my book.

And given the fracas over the already out-of-stock Radio batteries, one has to wonder how in-stock Touch inventories are going to match up against orders when opening day finally arrives.

Logitech's handling of the Squeezebox products has been a real Alice In Wonderland show. I'm in the "I'll believe it when it arrives" camp. ;-)

Mr_Sukebe
2010-03-04, 13:10
Look on the bright side of it. It's the first time I remember reading an official release date timeframe from Logitec. Yes, I know we'd all have liked them prior to Xmas, but being fair, May is only a couple of months away now, so we're nearly there.

bonze
2010-03-04, 14:47
Not sure what to use it for thoughanother Touch, of course ;)

mortslim
2010-03-05, 11:27
Why the Secrecy as to the "extra". Are you afraid you won't get it if you reveal what it is?

What is it?

dave77
2010-03-05, 11:32
Why the Secrecy as to the "extra". Are you afraid you won't get it if you reveal what it is?

What is it?

I didn't want to say at first incase anyone else didn't get it, it's just a 20% voucher for the Logitech website. If anyone wants my code they can have it for 10 quid, doubt i'll be using it

tomasito
2010-03-15, 06:53
Looks like people is feedup of the touch talking about the expected release date.
Hopefully, it'll be a christmas release

maggior
2010-03-15, 07:17
Looks like people is feedup of the touch talking about the expected release date.
Hopefully, it'll be a christmas release

Instead of the release being "Wow - the Touch was released, COOL", it will be "oh, they finally released the touch, eh?".

aubuti
2010-03-15, 07:42
Looks like people is feedup of the touch talking about the expected release date.
Sure looks like that. I for one was amazed that after months of speculation, rumors, complaining, etc., about the Touch release there was just about zero reaction in this forum to the announcement 7 days ago about the 7.5.0 code freeze (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76016), since that is the software that has been holding things up.

JJZolx
2010-03-15, 08:01
Sure looks like that. I for one was amazed that after months of speculation, rumors, complaining, etc., about the Touch release there was just about zero reaction in this forum to the announcement 7 days ago about the 7.5.0 code freeze (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76016), since that is the software that has been holding things up.

That is a good sign. The development team has been chasing its tail for over a year just trying to get someone (anyone) to set a concrete spec for the Touch. By freezing things, the development team can at least tackle the last handful of high priority bugs. A couple of those bugs look pretty gnarly, though, so I don't expect a surprise release of the Touch tomorrow. April/May may finally be doable, though.

BrianB
2010-03-15, 09:35
"Wow - the Touch was released, COOL", it will be "oh, they finally released the touch, eh?".

Ha. So true.

For me the time line was:
1) Start researching solutions about October.
2) Discover Logitech's Touch, compare it to others, and decide it's a great product
3) Go to order touch and come to find out it's not even out yet. Given the way it was promoted on their site, this was surprising.
4) So, I preorder anyway, thinking it's got to be close.
5) Then I find out the release is so far off, there's not even a release date. So, I begin to look at other solutions.
6) Find another solution for very little extra cost that accomplishes my main objective.
7) Cancel preoder.
8) Now, I'm just casually interested in the Touch. It still seems like a good product, but not sure if I really need it or would use it that much. So, given the cost, I'll wait till it comes out, see how it performs, and reevaluate if I still want one. As far as I am concerned now, they can wait till Christmas, because I'll probably just ask for one as a gift at that point.

Phil Leigh
2010-03-15, 10:03
Hopefully this will give Apple ample time to catch up with a competing product!

Yeauch!

carib
2010-03-15, 11:07
Ha. So true.

7) Cancel preoder.
8) Now, I'm just casually interested in the Touch. It still seems like a good product, but not sure if I really need it or would use it that much. So, given the cost, I'll wait till it comes out, see how it performs, and reevaluate if I still want one. As far as I am concerned now, they can wait till Christmas, because I'll probably just ask for one as a gift at that point.

So true, so true.

jstraw
2010-03-15, 13:05
Blah. The Touch is what I want and need. It goes to market when it goes to market. I pre-ordered just a week ago. When it arrives, I'll be pleased.

mlsstl
2010-03-15, 16:06
Just received an email from Logitech today with a customer survey link asking how I liked my online shopping experience for the unit they've still not yet shipped.

I especially enjoyed the question as to how I liked the product's packaging.

Now that's just downright fascinating!

They seem to have a natural instinct at this company for how to turn up the volume on the boneheaded move meter just when you thought it was about as high as it could go.

Whew!

upstatemike
2010-03-15, 16:29
They seem to have a natural instinct at this company for how to turn up the volume on the boneheaded move meter just when you thought it was about as high as it could go.


I would not be surprised if in some obscure corner of the company they have noticed that the warehouses are full of unsold SB Touch units and are debating whether to discontinue the product due to lack of sales.

bluegaspode
2010-03-15, 17:22
They seem to have a natural instinct at this company for how to turn up the volume on the boneheaded move meter just when you thought it was about as high as it could go.
:D

hilarious.



I would not be surprised if in some obscure corner of the company they have noticed that the warehouses are full of unsold SB Touch units and are debating whether to discontinue the product due to lack of sales.
shhh ... please don't talk about it - someone might be reading and getting ideas ...

iPhone
2010-03-15, 17:35
shhh ... please don't talk about it - someone might be reading and getting ideas ...

No No No, keep talking about the lack of sales. Then some bean counter might sell them to Big Lots or me at pennies on the dollar if we buy the warehouse lot!

wavfan
2010-03-17, 01:33
Recently, when listening to Dire Straits, all that Sting will sing is
"I want my SBT"....

Can only translate "SBT" with "SqueezeBox Touch". No other comes to mind.
Does this phenomenon need a DBT ?

Appreciate any help.

bonze
2010-03-17, 06:01
Recently, when listening to Dire Straits, all that Sting will sing is
"I want my SBT"....

Can only translate "SBT" with "SqueezeBox Touch". No other comes to mind.
Does this phenomenon need a DBT ?

Appreciate any help.Relax with a G&T :)

FredFredrickson
2010-03-17, 06:17
No No No, keep talking about the lack of sales. Then some bean counter might sell them to Big Lots or me at pennies on the dollar if we buy the warehouse lot!

Sometimes you get some great deals at biglots. I just got myself a roomba (the automatic one that schedules with the base) for $150. They're still selling that model online for $350.

I dream of the day that I find overstock squeezeboxes at biglots and buy up their whole stock.

Webkemmi
2010-03-17, 07:06
I just found the SB Touch in Amazon.de to be relased on April 24th.
I'm curious about that release date...

Stefan

iPhone
2010-03-17, 07:24
Recently, when listening to Dire Straits, all that Sting will sing is
"I want my SBT"....

Can only translate "SBT" with "SqueezeBox Touch". No other comes to mind.
Does this phenomenon need a DBT ?

Appreciate any help.

Here's your help. Sting is actually singing, "I want my MTV" on 'Money for Nothing' which is about what MTV Music Videos (MTV=Music Television) did for some acts that Dire Straits thought were one hit wonders or hacks.

PS Love the Avatar. The better half and I love the beach but after the incident (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/beach-jogger-killed-by-plane-likely-never-heard-it/article1502856/) Monday right in front of our beach house maybe I wouldn't take my iPhone with me on walks along the beach anymore.

mortslim
2010-03-17, 15:32
My speculation is that Logitech has a severe cash crunch at the moment.

Remember I said "speculation" not facts.

If it has such a cash crunch, maybe it can't build sufficient quantities in its Chinese sub-contractor's factory because it can't pay the subcontractor to start up a production run. There is a difference between a prototype run of a few hundred and a regular production of several thousand. Maybe the Chinese sub-contractor went bankrupt and Logitech can't find another sub-contractor.

I speculate as to this based upon analogizing to my experience with the GAP clothing company. I bought a couple of jackets and sweatshirts from them last year. When I went to their website this year, I see A LOT FEWER offerings. Conclusion? It's the economy. The world-wide economy.

A company can't build if it doesn't have the cash flow to finance the building. Or maybe its the credit crunch. A company needs a steady flow of credit to finance its operations. Maybe Logitech doesn't have the bank loans it needs to build the Touch.

Read between the lines of the bug list for the operating system of the Touch. At Microsoft, just for purposes of comparison, there are thousands of programmers working 24/7 in offices around the world.

It seems Logitech has maybe a handful at most of programmers working on the touch. You can read their posts here. Its kind of horse and buggy in a way when you go to the local blacksmith to have your horse re-shoed. It gives the impression of very low capital investment.

So, my speculation is that Logitech wants to start shipping the touch but it just doesn't have the capital or the credit to make it happen.

Remember, this post is pure speculation. I have absolutely no personal knowledge of exactly what the finances of Logitech really are.

Just some idle musing.

mortslim
2010-03-17, 15:57
Forget that idea.

I just checked their financials.

They had a net income of $57,000,000. for the last three months of 2009, which was better than the same period a year earlier.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=7020428-4563-201948&type=sect&dcn=0001032975-10-000004

snarlydwarf
2010-03-17, 16:16
Read between the lines of the bug list for the operating system of the Touch. At Microsoft, just for purposes of comparison, there are thousands of programmers working 24/7 in offices around the world.


Microsoft has several orders of magnitude more lines of code to maintain between Windows, IE, Office, etc.

I would expect them to have orders of magnitude more programmers than Logitech has for SqueezePlay and SBS. (The operating system itself is a Linux kernel and mostly Open Source libraries with effectively thousands more programmers.)

My TV (Samsung) runs the same OS (Linux kernel, busybox, etc) and, like SqueezeOS, they leverage the work of thousands.

iPhone
2010-03-17, 20:04
My speculation is that Logitech has a severe cash crunch at the moment.

Remember I said "speculation" not facts.

If it has such a cash crunch, maybe it can't build sufficient quantities in its Chinese sub-contractor's factory because it can't pay the subcontractor to start up a production run. There is a difference between a prototype run of a few hundred and a regular production of several thousand. Maybe the Chinese sub-contractor went bankrupt and Logitech can't find another sub-contractor.

A company can't build if it doesn't have the cash flow to finance the building. Or maybe its the credit crunch. A company needs a steady flow of credit to finance its operations. Maybe Logitech doesn't have the bank loans it needs to build the Touch.

Just some idle musing.

Kind of lost me here. The Touch Squeezeboxes are stacked up in warehouses. No product has to be run or prepaid for because they are already built. And since warehouse space isn't free, a company will spend the money it needs to on software engineering just so they can get rid of the storage fees and get another production run started.

I don't think money is the issue here, it is releasing a product with the proper firmware and server software.

Remember, most of the Slim Devices Big Kahunas are gone, so the Touch roll out is mainly on Logitech and I am betting they want it to be Gold when its released.

tomasito
2010-03-17, 22:06
where is the warehouse in china or in the US?

signor_rossi
2010-03-18, 04:57
Ahem, since I saw it wrong twice, the lead of Dire Straits was Mark Knopfler and not Sting. And the 2 songs by Dire Straits played frequently on the radio or music television are some of their weakest. ;-)

DaveWr
2010-03-18, 05:07
Ahem, since I saw it wrong twice, the lead of Dire Straits was Mark Knopfler and not Sting. And the 2 songs by Dire Straits played frequently on the radio or music television are some of their weakest. ;-)

but Sting did sing on one of those tracks.....

SteveEast
2010-03-18, 05:56
Ahem, since I saw it wrong twice, the lead of Dire Straits was Mark Knopfler and not Sting. And the 2 songs by Dire Straits played frequently on the radio or music television are some of their weakest. ;-)

Literally correct but "Money for Nothing" (the track mentioned above) has Sting as a guest vocalist. He also shares the composer credit with Knopfler.

See http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:0jfyxzyhld6e

Steve.

signor_rossi
2010-03-18, 10:31
Literally correct but "Money for Nothing" (the track mentioned above) has Sting as a guest vocalist. He also shares the composer credit with Knopfler.

See http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:0jfyxzyhld6e

Steve.

I stand corrected. :-)
But still 'Money for Nothing' is awfully annoying after a while and 'Walk of Live' is just a dime a dozen (did I use the saying correctly?). 'Sultans of Swing', 'Brother's in Arms' or 'Tunnel of Love' show much better what Dire Straits were capable of.

iPhone
2010-03-18, 12:39
I stand corrected. :-)
But still 'Money for Nothing' is awfully annoying after a while and 'Walk of Live' is just a dime a dozen (did I use the saying correctly?). 'Sultans of Swing', 'Brother's in Arms' or 'Tunnel of Love' show much better what Dire Straits were capable of.

Granted 'Money for Nothing' is no 'Stairway to Heaven' but it is a song inspired by the times and what was happening to music because of Music Videos being shown on MTV. My view of Brothers in Arms is that it was an album more for fun and to take a break then an example of their past work but still having a serious song or two along side several pop songs. The album is basically half arena rock and half of their folk rock style. It was the first all DDD rock CD as well as one of the first albums to be released directly on CD instead of vinyl first. The album went to number 1 in the US, Canada, the UK, and all of Europe except to #4 in Italy. The song 'Money for Nothing' also went to #1. The CD is still in the all time top 10 albums in the UK and spent 228 weeks on the UK charts. Not a Dark Side of the Moon but over 4 years is pretty impressive. The XRCD version sounds great as does the DVD-A version.

signor_rossi
2010-03-18, 13:33
...except to #4 in Italy...
Must have been my fault that it didn't get higher in the charts here. ;-)
Seriously, I don't envy Dire Straits the success with this album, I just like others (like 'Communique' e.g.) much more.

dave77
2010-03-18, 16:23
Just noticed SuperFi have started some banner advertising for the Touch, stating a April release on their website :)

DaveKen
2010-03-18, 16:40
At last !!! - back on topic, hooray :-) .
Enough about Dire Straits, be gone thread drift, let's all get back to when we get to play with the Touch.
Just my two penn'orth.
Dave

signor_rossi
2010-03-18, 23:31
Amazon.de also has it up to order with an April release date. :-)

toby10
2010-03-19, 03:57
oh boy........ here we go again...... :)

maggior
2010-03-19, 05:11
This time at least they are in code lockdown (code freeze) except for bug fixes, so there is another indicator that this thing should be released soon.

Hopefully it is more toward the beginning of April rather than the end.

wavfan
2010-03-19, 06:13
Using GP advice:

Welcome to the Psychiatric Hotline

If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.
If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2 for you.
If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5 and 6.
If your are paranoid-delusional, do not press any key. We know
who you are and are tracing the call.
If you are autistic...... (hang up please, you are blocking the line)
If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice
will tell you which number to press.
If you are manic-depressive, it doesn't matter which key you press.
No one will answer anyway.
/NOSqueezebox Touch/ /* edit March 2010 */
If you are in Touch suspense, you can type your own little melody while you wait...
/End NOSqueezebox Touch/


It's amazing how many speculations it is possible to concieve...
Think that I'll use the G&T advice to sweeten the wait.

gellie
2010-03-19, 12:10
Just called logitech to check on the status of mu order. I was told there have been several "issues". They will be shippinf some in in July. This product will never be released.

Mnyb
2010-03-19, 12:46
It actually exist, the fabled leak to one hapless consumer proves it.

Well if you all going to be scientific on me "at least one Touch exist.."

All beta testers please photograph yourself with today's paper standing beside your Touch ;)

.. yummy i found a bottle of champagne to accompany me on tonight's music exploring..

DaveKen
2010-03-19, 13:04
Just called logitech to check on the status of mu order. I was told there have been several "issues". They will be shippinf some in in July. This product will never be released.

I sincerely hope this is yet another know nothing ill informed numptie in their Sales/Marketing Dept. Everytime we think it can't get any worse and might actually be getting better, something like this crawls out of the woodwork.
To paraphrase something someone else said years ago, this must be the longest commercial suicide programme in history.
Even I'm getting despondent now.
Dave.

tomasito
2010-03-19, 21:52
I have a relative in taiwan, who is also a hifi buff, his girlfriend works as a secretary in the headquarters office. There is a possibility that the touch might be scrap.

Mnyb
2010-03-19, 22:09
i have a relative in taiwan, who is also a hifi buff, his girlfriend works as a secretary in the headquarters office. There is a possibility that the touch might be scrap.

3/10

signor_rossi
2010-03-20, 02:31
I have a relative in taiwan, who is also a hifi buff, his girlfriend works as a secretary in the headquarters office. There is a possibility that the touch might be scrap.

Doesn't make much sense to scrap it. Even (big speculation!) if they cannot release TinySC they still have a 24/96 capable thin client player that can work with SBS on a dedicated server.

ModelCitizen
2010-03-20, 03:07
3/10
3/10. That seems high. Does your scale include minus values?

MC

dave77
2010-03-20, 04:59
Just called logitech to check on the status of mu order. I was told there have been several "issues". They will be shippinf some in in July. This product will never be released.

If that's the case i'll be moving on from squeezebox

toby10
2010-03-20, 05:04
Scrap?

*eye roll*

Before any further speculation gets WAY out of hand, I’ll tell you what is *really* going on from my sources.

My second cousins girlfriend works part time as a cashier at Best Buy and she over heard the assistant manager say that the NSA and CIA have confiscated all Touch’s because Iran and North Korea had plans to use them as part of their missile guidance systems (the Touch’s Proximity Sensor is THAT good).

DaveKen
2010-03-20, 05:19
Scrap?

*eye roll*

Before any further speculation gets WAY out of hand, I’ll tell you what is *really* going on from my sources.

My second cousins girlfriend works part time as a cashier at Best Buy and she over heard the assistant manager say that the NSA and CIA have confiscated all Touch’s because Iran and North Korea had plans to use them as part of their missile guidance systems (the Touch’s Proximity Sensor is THAT good).

Ah, at last, some information that we can all really rely on!! This exxplains everything!
Dave.

Mnyb
2010-03-20, 06:13
3/10. That seems high. Does your scale include minus values?

MC

No the troll scale is from 0-10 they say in that tread.

Maybe it should be logarithmic as the Richter scale or dB scale ?

I was in good mode, but one of the posters after him seems to have bought it.
The trolling score should ideally measure the trolls ability to troll.
There are far to many gullible people, so it's rather easy to troll in the lover end of the scale, maybe he can fool 3 out of 10 viewers ?

Mnyb
2010-03-20, 06:17
Scrap?

*eye roll*

Before any further speculation gets WAY out of hand, I’ll tell you what is *really* going on from my sources.

My second cousins girlfriend works part time as a cashier at Best Buy and she over heard the assistant manager say that the NSA and CIA have confiscated all Touch’s because Iran and North Korea had plans to use them as part of their missile guidance systems (the Touch’s Proximity Sensor is THAT good).

The secret counter action plan is to introduce bugs in squeezeplay, they will explode on the launch pad, the ghost alarm bug confirms this, the alarm "fire" when people least expect it to.

iPhone
2010-03-20, 08:24
I have a relative in taiwan, who is also a hifi buff, his girlfriend works as a secretary in the headquarters office. There is a possibility that the touch might be scrap.

Troll. 0/10 for being silly enough to post that dribble (definitely no more then 1/10 because he didn't us any of the keywords, maybe a 2/10 if he said the girlfriend had the ability to fold space it see into the future). Everybody should automatically ignore all posts that start out with, "I have a relative in Taiwan......". His post doesn't even make good April Fool's fodder.

The Touch is a huge move toward making Squeezebox mass consumer ready. Since it doesn't use the expensive VFD it also probably has a better profit margin then the SB3. And TinySBS removes the need for an external server and allows one to just attach a USB drive containing ones local music library.

And oh yeah, did I mention that the Touch is stacked up in warehouses ready to ship when the word is given. Amazon is dying to start shipping them as well as the other large Internet Seller. Logitech has to much time and money invested in Touch to scrap it even without the fact that there has already been a production run of product.

tomasito
2010-03-20, 09:28
they are coming out with a touch 2, hence, they will not continue with the development of the original touch.

Phil Leigh
2010-03-20, 10:18
they are coming out with a touch 2, hence, they will not continue with the development of the original touch.

Oh you mean the one already sitting in warehouses (and in my living room...)

aubuti
2010-03-20, 10:37
they are coming out with a touch 2, hence, they will not continue with the development of the original touch.
Bzzzt! That's your second 0/10 in as many posts.

aubuti
2010-03-20, 10:37
they are coming out with a touch 2, hence, they will not continue with the development of the original touch.
Bzzzt! That's your second 0/10 in as many posts. Boring -- no troll cred at all.

Muele
2010-03-20, 14:13
Troll. 0/10 for being silly enough to post that dribble (definitely no more then 1/10 because he didn't us any of the keywords, maybe a 2/10 if he said the girlfriend had the ability to fold space it see into the future). Everybody should automatically ignore all posts that start out with, "I have a relative in Taiwan......". His post doesn't even make good April Fool's fodder.

The Touch is a huge move toward making Squeezebox mass consumer ready. Since it doesn't use the expensive VFD it also probably has a better profit margin then the SB3. And TinySBS removes the need for an external server and allows one to just attach a USB drive containing ones local music library.

And oh yeah, did I mention that the Touch is stacked up in warehouses ready to ship when the word is given. Amazon is dying to start shipping them as well as the other large Internet Seller. Logitech has to much time and money invested in Touch to scrap it even without the fact that there has already been a production run of product.

You rate it 0/10, yet spend time answering it? :D

toby10
2010-03-20, 14:57
Oh you mean the one already sitting in warehouses (and in my living room...)

So now the story is..... when you and I acquire our retail versions of the Touch it will be different hardware from our beta units.

Like all great rumor based conspiracy's, it just keeps getting more bizarre with each chapter. Even in the face of facts and reason. :)

SilverRS8
2010-03-23, 05:24
So now the story is..... when you and I acquire our retail versions of the Touch it will be different hardware from our beta units.

Like all great rumor based conspiracy's, it just keeps getting more bizarre with each chapter. Even in the face of facts and reason. :)

I find it very amusing to read about all the rumors and conspiracies in this thread. I just hope the final unit will allow us to teleport ourself to the currently playing artist at a touch of the screen.

Phil Leigh
2010-03-23, 05:29
I find it very amusing to read about all the rumors and conspiracies in this thread. I just hope the final unit will allow us to teleport ourself to the currently playing artist at a touch of the screen.

Actually this is working in Beta, but there is a bug. It cannot recognise dead artists...

FredFredrickson
2010-03-23, 07:09
Actually this is working in Beta, but there is a bug. It cannot recognise dead artists...

Mine does. Pack a shovel.

kesey
2010-03-23, 09:34
Mine does. Pack a shovel.
maybe a paddle? The dear departed could be happily floating down the Styx.

bonze
2010-03-23, 09:51
"I see Squeezebox Touches"

Phil Leigh
2010-03-23, 10:01
maybe a paddle? The dear departed could be happily floating down the Styx.

To the strains of Tommy Shaw & Co?

kesey
2010-03-23, 10:29
To the strains of Tommy Shaw & Co?

I was thinking Gerry and the Pacemakers..

iPhone
2010-03-23, 11:33
maybe a paddle? The dear departed could be happily floating down the Styx.

A shovel can be used as a paddle, but a paddle makes a poor shovel to dig ones way out of a grave!

I'm waiting for the gold production release of both the firmware and SBS software before using the teleport feature due to the unexpected results. The beta bug list for the teleport function are scary if one can read the list before it teleports again which I strongly believe was caused by somebody entering a bug while engaging the feature.

To get back toward the thread's topic, has anybody started a pool on when the Touch will be released? With most March Madness brackets blown out, we need another pool (only 12 out of almost 5 million submitted to ESPN are still valid).