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powaq
2009-12-23, 10:32
Hello,

I'd like to enable the bridge function of my SB3 but I can't get it to work.

My current setup :

PC <==eth wire==> Modem/Router <==wireless==> SB3

I'd like to connect the Eth port of my new TV to the Eth port of the SB3 :
PC <==eth wire==> Modem/Router <==wireless==> SB3 <== eth wire ==> TV
The goal is to connect my TV to the Internet.

I use a crossover cable between SB3 & TV.
When I try to configure the network on the SB3 (holding left on the remote for 5 seconds, then "current parameters"), I see that the bridge is disabled but I don't have the option to enable it.

What am I doing wrong ?

jo-wie
2009-12-23, 10:57
Hello,

I'd like to enable the bridge function of my SB3 but I can't get it to work.

My current setup :

PC <==eth wire==> Modem/Router <==wireless==> SB3

I'd like to connect the Eth port of my new TV to the Eth port of the SB3 :
PC <==eth wire==> Modem/Router <==wireless==> SB3 <== eth wire ==> TV
The goal is to connect my TV to the Internet.

I use a crossover cable between SB3 & TV.
When I try to configure the network on the SB3 (holding left on the remote for 5 seconds, then "current parameters"), I see that the bridge is disabled but I don't have the option to enable it.

What am I doing wrong ?

I had the same problem with my Boom. Try to setup a wired connection and than go back to setup a wireless connection.

usch
2009-12-23, 21:00
I see that the bridge is disabled but I don't have the option to enable it.

What am I doing wrong ?

You enable it in the "Set up networking" menu. The next step after you select the wireless network is the bridge mode setting.

seanadams
2009-12-26, 15:20
You're using a crossover cable which is correct, but double-check your cable pinouts and connections.

There must be a good ethernet link at the time you are going through wireless setup in order for the firmware to decide that the option should be presented.

The colors on a crossover cable are usually:

One one end, standard T568B:

Orange-white
Orange
Green white
X
X
Green
X
X

other end:

Green-white
Green
Orange-white
X
X
Orange
X
X

X means "don't care for this purpose"

powaq
2009-12-26, 15:44
Thanks for trying to help me.

The only solution I found is the following :

connect a laptop to the SB3 (with my crossover cable) => The option to enable the bridge finally appears !

Once the option has been enabled, I have connected the SB3 and my TV with the crossover cable : no problem ! It works.

So it seems that the SB3 is a bit too restrictive about the kind of ethernet link allowing to enable the bridge.

usch
2009-12-26, 19:50
You're using a crossover cable which is correct,

Interesting. I'm successfully using a regular, uncrossed cable between my Boom and an SB1, under the (apparently correct) assumption that Rx and Tx are swapped internally when in bridge mode. Is the Boom's network interface different from the SB3?

seanadams
2009-12-27, 01:40
Thanks for trying to help me.

The only solution I found is the following :

connect a laptop to the SB3 (with my crossover cable) => The option to enable the bridge finally appears !

Once the option has been enabled, I have connected the SB3 and my TV with the crossover cable : no problem ! It works.

So it seems that the SB3 is a bit too restrictive about the kind of ethernet link allowing to enable the bridge.

Huh - that's the first I've heard of this problem. Glad you got it working though.

seanadams
2009-12-27, 10:01
Interesting. I'm successfully using a regular, uncrossed cable between my Boom and an SB1, under the (apparently correct) assumption that Rx and Tx are swapped internally when in bridge mode. Is the Boom's network interface different from the SB3?

Yes, the ethernet ports on all products _after_ SB3 are auto-crossover. That's all the time, not just when bridging.

JJZolx
2009-12-27, 10:08
I don't understand why bridging can't be enabled without an active ethernet connection. I had to come to the forums and ask the same question when I needed to enable it on an SB3. Does it get turned off if the ethernet is pulled or does it stay enabled? This just seems like another one of those silly interface design decisions that someone thought would simplify setup, only to make things much more difficult when it actually comes to using the feature.

peterw
2009-12-27, 10:16
I don't understand why bridging can't be enabled without an active ethernet connection. I had to come to the forums and ask the same question when I needed to enable it on an SB3. Does it get turned off if the ethernet is pulled or does it stay enabled? This just seems like another one of those silly interface design decisions that someone thought would simplify setup, only to make things much more difficult when it actually comes to using the feature.

It stays enabled if Ethernet is disconnected, and through firmware updates. Every time I set up a Squeezebox in a room where I thought guests might want network access, I've enabled bridging once and then left it alone.

I think it would be better to default to bridging being enabled, and document the process of disabling it for the more security-conscious customers. So your typical customer would be elated when plugging their new Blu-Ray player into the SB Classic and finding that it "just worked".

Still, it's a wonderful feature, and I'm glad that Logitech will offer it for Touch even if not for Radio. (And for Radio I have to wonder why not offer a SNAT/IP Masquerading option, as that in many cases would be good enough.) Thanks, Sean, for thinking to make this part of the product spec -- it's one of those great little details that helped sell me on the product. Goodness knows an SB2 is a much more attractive and useful bridge than the chunky old Linksys AP I picked up at a yard sale!

seanadams
2009-12-27, 10:19
I don't understand why bridging can't be enabled without an active ethernet connection. I had to come to the forums and ask the same question when I needed to enable it on an SB3. Does it get turned off if the ethernet is pulled or does it stay enabled? This just seems like another one of those silly interface design decisions that someone thought would simplify setup, only to make things much more difficult when it actually comes to using the feature.

Not asking when it isn't going to work anyway makes it easier for people who are NOT trying to use the feature, which is nearly everyone.

Granted, the setting could be put elsewhere in the menus where it could then give feedback about the state of the ethernet port, advice about cabling, etc but I think that's high-hanging fruit among possible UI improvements.

JJZolx
2009-12-27, 10:37
Not asking when it isn't going to work anyway makes it easier for people who are NOT trying to use the feature, which is nearly everyone.

Granted, the setting could be put elsewhere in the menus where it could then give feedback about the state of the ethernet port, advice about cabling, etc but I think that's high-hanging fruit among possible UI improvements.

No, you don't need to 'ask' during setup. You just make it available in network settings without making users jump through hoops. It would have been easier to implement in the first place by not needing to check whether the connection is up.

seanadams
2009-12-27, 10:59
No, you don't need to 'ask' during setup. You just make it available in network settings without making users jump through hoops. It would have been easier to implement in the first place by not needing to check whether the connection is up.

Then we are in violent agreement that such a setting would be nice to have.

But it's also nice, if someone is choosing wireless setup while they have the ethernet port connected, to ask if they're trying to bridge because it makes an awful lot of sense in that context.

At the time I guess we overestimated the likelihood of the ethernet link status being a reliable indicator of the user's intent. It would have worked a heck of a lot better if the PHYs were auto-MDIX in those days.

There's another question here as to why bridging isn't just enabled all the time, which would make this whole issue moot. Mainly the problem there is making sure to have reliable loop detection, which SB3 does not have, making it easy for the unwitting user to take down his whole network. Then I guess there's still the issue that you wouldn't want to make it too easy for someone to accidentally bridge to the wrong network - eg choosing your neighbor's "linksys" and then having thing on your ethernet LAN bridged to theirs.