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View Full Version : Think I've been ripped off - Squeezebox Classic Store Demo Unit.. Help!



Radrismo
2009-12-07, 17:21
I recently purchased a Squeezebox Classic (Logitech branding) and believe I may have been ripped off based on my failure to get the unit to work and lots of research online from people with similar tales of woe.

The unit itself came with a remote and PSU, it has a full sticker on the base with p/n, serial number etc. - There is nothing to indicate its a demo unit I can see.

When booted it goes into a "Starting Demo" countdown and if this is cancelled with the remote it displays a "Debug Firmware" message. (According to the menus the firmware is version 250)

I am able to get a DHCP address from my Network and get the unit to see a Squeezebox Server - it appears to work best if the server is named something like "factorytest".

The first time it connects to the Server it requests a firmware update (press and hold brightness etc) and then it goes to the "remove Ethernet Cable to continue - this may take a minute".
However it never gets any further than this and every reboot it asks to re-download the new firmware and it loops over and over.

I have managed to get slightly further than this by deleting all the firmware versions in the Squeezebox Server /firmware folder on my PC and then it will connect and I can queue up and send tracks to the Squeezebox etc.

However while the track time elapses I can't get any audio to play on the Squeezebox at all and the VU / Meters etc. don't show any movement so it looks like its just not receiving / decoding data so that looks like only a partial fix.

Unfortunaetly the seller has vanished and is is non-responsive to emails so I'm convinced I've been ripped off.

Here's my questions / comments:

- Do Logitech/Squeezebox want this thing back? Is it of use to anyone?

- Why are Demo units so poorly marked that this can happen? Comments by posters that these have no stickers on them are just not true based on my and others experiences - there should be some indelible marking to say "non-functional demo unit" on them.

- Is there any hope of getting any audio out of this? Even without newer firmware?

- Other people have reported these units have a CF Card in them in the place of the wireless unit and the CF Card holds the demo code - can I remove this / reflash the card to get any further? Get a wireless card?

*sigh* - What I thought was going to be an awesome xmas gift has turned into a nightmare but I now appear to know more about Squeezeboxes than I would have if it had just worked out of the box.

Thanks!

seanadams
2009-12-07, 17:39
It's useless - get your money back if you can. We later put very conspicuous labels on them after realizing that some retail employees were doing this.

Radrismo
2009-12-08, 20:31
Unfortunately all attempts to contact the seller have failed and he has also sold at least 2 other Squeezeboxes recently so I'm not sure I'm the only victim.

I'm still dissapointed there is no firmware fix that can turn these ddemo units into a functional player. There is nothing (apart from the CF Card replacing the wireless card) obviously different about the Hardware (I've been comparing lots of the helpful online modding closeups of the insides) and I know the unit is capable of outputting audio (it does it in the Demo).

My next step is to try and hack the Demo mode code - think I have successfully accessed the data on the card, so now will see if I can do anything else with it.

iPhone
2009-12-08, 21:29
My next step is to try and hack the Demo mode code - think I have successfully accessed the data on the card, so now will see if I can do anything else with it.

I think you might not know who Sean is, He started the Squeezebox!

Hack all you want, it is a menu demo unit (not working demo unit) and I believe it doesn't have the guts to be a player even if one could put the correct OS and Firmware onto it.

lrossouw
2009-12-08, 22:06
You may not have noticed, but Sean, who replied to your post, is one of the original founders of SlimDevices (that was subsequently bought by Logitech). If he says its worthless I suspect it is, but hey maybe you can get something working :)

Radrismo
2009-12-09, 00:57
I think you might not know who Sean is, He started the Squeezebox!
Hack all you want, it is a menu demo unit (not working demo unit) and I believe it doesn't have the guts to be a player even if one could put the correct OS and Firmware onto it.

I realise who Sean is. I am also a complete cynic that believes that even if its just firmware there is no way Sean is going to tell me, as its obvious from a business point of view these should not be in public hands and releasing this information would open up a potential back door.

I'm terms of of your "doesn't have the guts" I've ted in my previous posts that it looks to me (a) the unit is visually identical inside (except for the CF Card in the place of the WiFi) to a production unit (based on comparisons with lots of highres online guides from all the audio modders. (b) The rolling demo actually includes lots of audio - its not just a rolling text demo so there is functional audio hardware in this (c) I can actually get it to connect to my Squeeze Server etc. and browse tracks etc. (d) This is a also a Logitech branded demo unit not a Slim devices (if that makes any difference in terms of demo hardware versions)

Hacking the CF Card is obviously a dead end (it looks to just contain the demo) but it would be at least be fun to get it to scroll something else.

I also realise I'm now probably posting in the wrong section - the hardware mod section seems to have people more willing to seriously hack the hardware and swap bits out (upgraded wifi cards etc.)

lrossouw
2009-12-09, 02:24
Oops had a simultaneous post there. The only point I can help you with is that I a regular SB3 can work without the WiFi card. (wired of course)

Millwood
2009-12-09, 07:33
I realise who Sean is. I am also a complete cynic that believes that even if its just firmware there is no way Sean is going to tell me, as its obvious from a business point of view these should not be in public hands and releasing this information would open up a potential back door.


You obviously don't know who Sean is, in the sense of having watched him build this product and interacting with him as it evolved. To even imply he would lie to you is unacceptable, and he deserves an apology.

He doesn't even work for/with the company any more, and yet he went to the trouble of trying to help you and others who will get ripped off this way. Come on.

And to Sean - please don't let one bad apple sour you. I was thrilled to see that you still follow the forums and offer help when you can. Hope your new life is as much fun as the old one was.

toby10
2009-12-09, 08:19
Unfortunately your problem is with the seller. Was it listed as "I've been using this SB3 for a while and upgraded to xx player" or is this a wholesaler who buys and sells anything he can get his hands on (which I suspect is the case as you say he sold several other SB3's).

If the seller claimed it was in use by himself then he's obviously a BS'er.
Regardless, it's the sellers responsibility. Do you have any recourse? Can you dispute the sale through your payment processor?

You have pretty clear proof that the mfr of the item in question has confirmed this is NOT an item ever intended for resale to dispute this sale through proper channels.

iPhone
2009-12-09, 10:47
I realise who Sean is. I am also a complete cynic that believes that even if its just firmware there is no way Sean is going to tell me, as its obvious from a business point of view these should not be in public hands and releasing this information would open up a potential back door.



Of course I have not seen the inside of your unit, so I am assuming it doesn't have everything needed to play tracks from a server (still betting it doesn't).

If there was any way possible to get that DEMO unit working as a real Squeezebox, trust me, Sean would tell you how to do it. The unit should have never been sold in the first place and if it could be easily converted, I believe Sean would have already told the others this has happened to how to do it (if anybody could he could).

This company and Sean go out of their way to help customers and users.

seanadams
2009-12-09, 12:00
Obtain a working SB3. Disassemble, remove CPU module (using CA solvent if needed on mezzanine connector). Using SMD hot air rework station and nozzle suitable for TSOP 48 package, remove flash chip (marked AM29LV160xxx or compatible). Install in compatible programmer using appropriate adaptor and extract the flash image. Resolder flash chip and reassemble working SB3.

Disassemble demo SB3 and remove CF daughtercard. Repeat above procedure, except write the extracted image from step 1.

If you want wireless, obtain an Atheros mini-PCI module with AR2413 chipset and suitable antennas (eg 2.4GHz folded planar with mini I-PEX connector). Hire a lab to verify regulatory compliance. Reassemble.

jtf
2009-12-09, 12:03
Obtain a working SB3. Disassemble, remove CPU module (using CA solvent if needed on mezzanine connector). Using SMD hot air rework station and nozzle suitable for TSOP 48 package, remove flash chip (marked AM29LV160xxx or compatible). Install in compatible programmer using appropriate adaptor and extract the flash image. Resolder flash chip and reassemble working SB3.

Disassemble demo SB3 and remove CF daughtercard. Repeat above procedure, except write the extracted image from step 1.

If you want wireless, obtain an Atheros mini-PCI module with AR2413 chipset and suitable antennas. Hire a lab to verify regulatory compliance. Reassemble.
If I had a nickel for every time I've done this...

Phil Leigh
2009-12-09, 12:06
If I had a nickel for every time I've done this...

I'd have no nickels...

iPhone
2009-12-09, 12:12
Obtain a working SB3. Disassemble, remove CPU module (using CA solvent if needed on mezzanine connector). Using SMD hot air rework station and nozzle suitable for TSOP 48 package, remove flash chip (marked AM29LV160xxx or compatible). Install in compatible programmer using appropriate adaptor and extract the flash image. Resolder flash chip and reassemble working SB3.

Disassemble demo SB3 and remove CF daughtercard. Repeat above procedure, except write the extracted image from step 1.

If you want wireless, obtain an Atheros mini-PCI module with AR2413 chipset and suitable antennas (eg 2.4GHz folded planar with mini I-PEX connector). Hire a lab to verify regulatory compliance. Reassemble.

+1

Is time and material for the above procedure more or less then a used SB3 on EBAY? I am guessing more especially since one needs a working SB3 to extract the correct working flash image.

Best advice, make every attempt to get your money back (work with Credit Card company or PayPal), then buy a used SB3 on EBAY from a reputable seller.

Edit Addition: I do stand corrected in that it can be done but it is neither worth the time or the money in light of one needing a working SB3 just to get started (that one could end up disabling also if things go wrong).

bobkoure
2009-12-09, 20:11
I'd have to agree that the best solution is to get the seller to swallow it back. Might be hard to do if you bought it "as is", although if the seller knew it was unusable this isn't a lot different from shipping you a box of rocks.

If you end up stuck with it, before you start trying to convert it into a non-demo unit it seems to me there was at least one person posting here with a SB3 who'd had the display unit fail. Someone else mentioned that the display module is available for around $200.
So what you might have there is a donor display unit, ripe for desoldering...

peterw
2009-12-09, 21:39
Is time and material for the above procedure more or less then a used SB3 on EBAY?

Have you looked on eBay lately? There used to be a LOT of SB3 / SB Classic units for sale. Now there are 3 on the main eBay site -- two auctions that are days from closing, and one seller asking $349 USD for an SB3 with a homemade power supply. SB Receivers are similarly in short supply on eBay (three Buy It Now for about $200 each), though there are a few more Duet setups and Booms available. Things are certainly much different than a couple months ago when you could buy refurbished players from MySqueezebox.com for cheap. It looks like supply is drying up, so Logitech really needs to get the new gear out on the market.

Logitech hasn't announced anything, but I expect they'll release an updated Receiver (and Duet bundle) at the same time as Touch, based on the Touch/SqueezePlay/ARM platform, so I don't think it's a bad sign that Receivers seem hard to find right now. I don't at all think Logitech is wavering in its support of the Squeezebox product line, but merely that they underestimated demand for the old gear.

iPhone
2009-12-10, 10:02
Have you looked on eBay lately? There used to be a LOT of SB3 / SB Classic units for sale. Now there are 3 on the main eBay site -- two auctions that are days from closing, and one seller asking $349 USD for an SB3 with a homemade power supply. SB Receivers are similarly in short supply on eBay (three Buy It Now for about $200 each), though there are a few more Duet setups and Booms available. Things are certainly much different than a couple months ago when you could buy refurbished players from MySqueezebox.com for cheap. It looks like supply is drying up, so Logitech really needs to get the new gear out on the market.

Logitech hasn't announced anything, but I expect they'll release an updated Receiver (and Duet bundle) at the same time as Touch, based on the Touch/SqueezePlay/ARM platform, so I don't think it's a bad sign that Receivers seem hard to find right now. I don't at all think Logitech is wavering in its support of the Squeezebox product line, but merely that they underestimated demand for the old gear.

Actually Peter, I hadn't looked as usually EBAY is a less expensive place to get a nice used one. Guess I need to put the two NIB Duets and 3 NIB Classics I have up on EBAY. They were for a project at another house but I am going with the Touch when it comes out instead.

mlsstl
2009-12-10, 12:30
Might be hard to do <return to seller> if you bought it "as is"...

This depends a lot on the rest of the seller's description. If it was described as non-working or parts-only then you would have no expectation of getting your money back.

However, if the listing implied it was a working unit (by being silent on the demo issue or giving the impression by "demo" they meant a working floor model), then I think eBay (if this is where it was acquired) would side with the buyer and order a refund. With Paypal they have the ability to make that refund a reality whether the seller wants to cooperate or not.

If purchased directly from the seller you've probably been hosed by a slimebag.

QBIT
2010-04-01, 17:11
any one can solve this question

snarlydwarf
2010-04-01, 17:15
any one can solve this question

I thought http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=493928&postcount=11 explained it just fine.

QBIT
2010-04-01, 18:41
I thought http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=493928&postcount=11 explained it just fine.

That is so trouble.

QBIT
2010-04-01, 19:09
some body have the rom img?

mherger
2010-04-02, 00:39
> any one can solve this question

The guy who sold the device to you. Return it.

--

Michael

peterw
2010-04-02, 04:47
Obtain a working SB3. Disassemble, remove CPU module (using CA solvent if needed on mezzanine connector). Using SMD hot air rework station and nozzle suitable for TSOP 48 package, remove flash chip (marked AM29LV160xxx or compatible). Install in compatible programmer using appropriate adaptor and extract the flash image.

I know you're joking. Well, that your instructions are correct but that your point is that "fixing" a demo unit is not worth the considerable trouble. But is it not possible to extract a flash image from a firmware update downloaded from slimdevices.com like squeezebox2_130.bin? Is it not the case that a firmware update re-writes the device ROM (EPROM? I don't really know what I'm talking about) with N bytes from the downloadable firmware file, starting at byte M in the firmware file (perhaps discarding some error checking bytes interspersed in the file)? Is it not the case that the firmware for an SB2/SB3 resides in something like EPROM, the settings in something like NVRAM, such that someone might, just might, be able to extract the ROM image bytes from squeezebox2_130.bin and use that to "fix" a demo unit?

Not that I would ever bother, I'm just intrigued as to how this works. :-)

usch
2010-04-02, 15:59
The answer to all your questions is probably "yes, it is", but you are still overlooking two important points.

First, the update itself has to be done by the existing player firmware. If the update commands are simply not implemented in the demo version, there is no way to get a different firmware into the unit except with a hardware programmer.

And second, most likely the *.bin files contain only patches, not the complete firmware, so for the missing parts you would need a ROM image from a working retail unit to start with.

I don't think that Sean exaggerated much.

QBIT
2010-04-05, 03:27
I think that is may be some firmware have trouble. because,my player power up it display "DEBUG FIRMWARE".I believe the play's ROTS,is boot load,then it will be detect all part ,then if no question the play will be normal,and test pass.so I think that. as for the question,is that which part is trouble? my opinion is right?

QBIT
2010-04-08, 01:44
Can anybody help?

Phil Leigh
2010-04-08, 02:02
Can anybody help?

You have been sold a Demonstration unit that does not - and will never - work. You need to get your money back.

QBIT
2010-04-10, 00:30
Squeezebox v3 Factory test mode ? Do you know? what is this meat?

Phil Leigh
2010-04-10, 01:09
Squeezebox v3 Factory test mode ? Do you know? what is this meat?

spam?

toby10
2010-04-10, 03:02
Squeezebox v3 Factory test mode ? Do you know? what is this meat?

As has been suggested to you numerous times in several posts you have three options:
- return it
- reprogram the chip
- throw it away and buy another

You were sold either a broken unit or a store demo unit. In either case your options are as suggested.

I feel bad you got ripped off but there is nothing anyone here can do to help. :(

barkeater
2011-11-18, 08:32
I had similar situation happen to me. bought what I thought was a fully functional squeezebox classic on ebay and turns out to be a demo model (non-functional). seller has offered to refund me my $, but he wants me to send him back the unit. as I don't want anyone else to fall prey to this, what should I do?

thanks
Bill

aubuti
2011-11-18, 09:50
If the seller refunds the money, it's only fair that you return the unit. To help prevent this happening to someone else, (a) file a complaint with eBay, and (b) give the seller negative feedback, explaining the deception.

The seller may not have been aware it was a non-functional demo -- some people buy-and-resell tons of stuff they think will net them a few bucks, without really carefully inspecting the item. The seller may end up taking a loss on this one. And that's also fair if they didn't do their homework.

barkeater
2011-11-18, 10:29
aubuti,

Yeah, I just didn't want the thing to go back out and potentially screw someone else. He probably didn't know but who knows.

thanks for the reply. Once I get a working unit I am sure I'll be back with a more relevant question on its operation. :)

Happy Thanksgiving!

ghostrider
2011-11-18, 10:34
There was some guy here wanting to buy a case for a SB3. You may want to find his post, he may pay more than you did.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91352&highlight=case