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heebeegeebee
2009-12-03, 12:36
Had the Duet System 1 week & so far pretty happy :)

One thing I do notice is that the Volume Output Level does seem to be very low when compared to that provided by my CD-Player, Turntable, Tuner.

I use Musical Fidelity Amps (1 x XA1 with 2 x XA50s) with the 6 o'clock position being Volume OFF.
The squeezebox receiver is connected via analog connections.

Even with the squeezebox volumes up at 100% I need to have the volume on the Amp at least round at 10 or 11 o'clock (almost 50% round) to get any sort of decent sound.
With all other sources 7 or 8 o'clock (20%) is sufficient & 10 or 11 would be absolutely deafening !

What I would have liked to see but haven't so far is a startup/default volume level option.
Any ideas/explanations very much appreciated,
Greg.

Phil Leigh
2009-12-03, 12:56
Had the Duet System 1 week & so far pretty happy :)

One thing I do notice is that the Volume Output Level does seem to be very low when compared to that provided by my CD-Player, Turntable, Tuner.

I use Musical Fidelity Amps (1 x XA1 with 2 x XA50s) with the 6 o'clock position being Volume OFF.
The squeezebox receiver is connected via analog connections.

Even with the squeezebox volumes up at 100% I need to have the volume on the Amp at least round at 10 or 11 o'clock (almost 50% round) to get any sort of decent sound.
With all other sources 7 or 8 o'clock (20%) is sufficient & 10 or 11 would be absolutely deafening !

What I would have liked to see but haven't so far is a startup/default volume level option.
Any ideas/explanations very much appreciated,
Greg.

A couple of things to check:
1) Are you listening to the internet radio or your own music ripped from CD? - if the latter, how EXACTLY did you rip it?
2) do you have Replaygain enabled?
3) are you using iTunes integration?

heebeegeebee
2009-12-03, 13:09
Phil thanks for your response.
Have just tried Internet Radio & it appears that volume/level there is indeed higher than that produced from any of the Rips, Live Downloads etc I have.
So that points to the files themselves as opposed to Squeezebox config !?
No I do not have any Gain enabled, that option is set to No-Volume-Adjustment.

Pete Fowler
2009-12-03, 15:00
Another possibility is the Wolfson DAC in the Duet only puts out 1.7V max vs. a more typical 2V for CD players, etc.

I've noticed mine is about 4dB quieter on CD playback than while streaming FM, and FM is about 2dB less than my phono amp. YMMV.

Pete

trouty00
2009-12-03, 15:42
I've also had this issue since Ive had the duet but never really thought too much about it, I have mine hooked up to a stereo system (technics unit) through the aux port and I have the unit turned up very high. its low with all music, wether it be my mp3's or napster/last.fm.

never really understood what the gain settings would do.


EDIT:- ok so now i know...http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/AutomaticVolumeAdjustment

mine was set to smartgain (guess maybe i did investigate when i bought the duet)


Stu

heebeegeebee
2009-12-04, 07:45
Thanks for all the responses.
So am I correct in stating that a further "standard/default/startup" volume boost setting is not available in the squeezebox software ?

As well as the hoped for sound quality improvement would an external DAC also help in matching the levels between the various sources ?

Of course I *can* physically turn the Amp volume down whenever switching from squeezebox back to CD/Tuner/Turntable but am concerned this is going to be sometime be forgotten & cause some damage to speakers or hearing.

Phil Leigh
2009-12-04, 08:18
Thanks for all the responses.
So am I correct in stating that a further "standard/default/startup" volume boost setting is not available in the squeezebox software ?

As well as the hoped for sound quality improvement would an external DAC also help in matching the levels between the various sources ?

Of course I *can* physically turn the Amp volume down whenever switching from squeezebox back to CD/Tuner/Turntable but am concerned this is going to be sometime be forgotten & cause some damage to speakers or hearing.

Each DAC has its own output level. An average DAC puts out around 2V so maybe 20% more than the Duet.

You can't have a startup volume "boost" on the SB (of course you can have a startup "cut" but that won't help you!).


However, I'm not convinced this is your problem. This is the first report of this I have seen, and you said that Internet Radio was louder.

Maybe you should take a look at your rips. How are you doing them?

ghostrider
2009-12-04, 08:37
Thanks for all the responses.
So am I correct in stating that a further "standard/default/startup" volume boost setting is not available in the squeezebox software ?


You can set the Duet volume to be fixed at 100% in the player audio settings. This would be the recommended setting if you control volume at the preamp.

Pete Fowler
2009-12-04, 09:45
Hi Phil,


Each DAC has its own output level. An average DAC puts out around 2V so maybe 20% more than the Duet.

However, I'm not convinced this is your problem. This is the first report of this I have seen, and you said that Internet Radio was louder.

My Duet has always been louder on streaming FM than on CD playback except for some really loud CD's. I'd say 4-6dB on average. Some CD's are more like 8-10dB down compared to FM. I used the same settings and the same software to rip them all.

Interesting...

Pete

heebeegeebee
2009-12-06, 02:54
The files I listen to are FLACS from Live Recordings that are not commercially available (bootlegs) so have not been ripped by myself.
They originate from many different sources but all so far produce volume output on playback lower than that from CD/Tuner/Turntable.

Is there a way to "boost" the volume of these Flac files (preferably in batch mode, I have thousands) that will not otherwise affect quality ?

Will an external DAC with a higher output rating assist in matching the volume levels with other sources ?

If I am eventually going to rip my own CDs then what would you recommend I use ?

Thanks again.

Mnyb
2009-12-06, 03:24
The files I listen to are FLACS from Live Recordings that are not commercially available (bootlegs) so have not been ripped by myself.
They originate from many different sources but all so far produce volume output on playback lower than that from CD/Tuner/Turntable.

Is there a way to "boost" the volume of these Flac files (preferably in batch mode, I have thousands) that will not otherwise affect quality ?

Will an external DAC with a higher output rating assist in matching the volume levels with other sources ?

If I am eventually going to rip my own CDs then what would you recommend I use ?

Thanks again.

For your own CD's EAC or dBpower amp.
Suggest you try to rip a very "loud" CD on your own just so you can experience how loud the squeezebox really go.

There are methods to equal levels between files such as replay gain.
But that won't help between sources.

Consider this most never CD's these days have their dynamics crushed to death by excessive dynamic compression google "loudness war"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

So could it not be so that these live recordings are actually well done and have decent dynamic headroom ? compressing them with some kind of software might work, but that would affect sound-quality.
The peaks in the music might well fill all 16 or 24 bits but the subjective level can low anyway to make it "louder" you have to reduce dynamic contrast.
It would be like turning up the brightness on your TV to maximum, the difference between high and low would be lost, everything would be whitewashed and bleached.

scp2
2009-12-08, 15:10
I experience this same exact thing. I ripped using dbpoweramp with replay gain activated. I use digital output on my duet and run it thru an external dac/preamp then to a seperate 140 w amp. My 85w avr will blow it away on volume when playing a cd.

This really bugs me...I thought about upgrading to a transporter..but sounds like the same issue applys. So maybe a behemoth amp is in my future. Sometimes loud is good.

Maybe I should try ripping without replay gain activated?

aubuti
2009-12-08, 19:38
I experience this same exact thing. I ripped using dbpoweramp with replay gain activated. I use digital output on my duet and run it thru an external dac/preamp then to a seperate 140 w amp. My 85w avr will blow it away on volume when playing a cd.

This really bugs me...I thought about upgrading to a transporter..but sounds like the same issue applys. So maybe a behemoth amp is in my future. Sometimes loud is good.

Maybe I should try ripping without replay gain activated?
"Activating" replay gain at rip time only writes the RG tags. The audio data that gets written is exactly the same whether RG is activated or not. If you don't want to use the RG values, just tell SBS to ignore it. On the SBC: Settings > Audio Settings > Volume Adjustment > No Volume Adjustment. It's also available via the web ui (Settings > Player > Audio > yada yada).

scp2
2009-12-08, 21:57
OK I checked and my volume adjustment was set to-no volume adj...Iam going to try it at smart gain to see what happens..I know several of my cd rips showed a positive gain....who knows. I also saw the preamp volume, but that would not apply to my circumstance, since I am using the digital outs and converting in my ex dac. But some of those not doing as such, may want to try? Mine was set at 0 and allowed for up to +63. I reset mine to +33.

Any other settings that I may look at to get my gain closer to normal?

Mnyb
2009-12-08, 23:15
OK I checked and my volume adjustment was set to-no volume adj...Iam going to try it at smart gain to see what happens..I know several of my cd rips showed a positive gain....who knows. I also saw the preamp volume, but that would not apply to my circumstance, since I am using the digital outs and converting in my ex dac. But some of those not doing as such, may want to try? Mine was set at 0 and allowed for up to +63. I reset mine to +33.

Any other settings that I may look at to get my gain closer to normal?

Preamp volume does not do anything for a reciever, it only works for SB3/2 Classic. It has been corrected in never squeezeboxservers , the setting is only there for the players who has it.

Phil Leigh
2009-12-09, 00:06
1) Apply replaygain to some of your quiet Flacs
2) study the values it calculates
3) if they are negative, the files are OK (from a "volume" perspective)
4) you are using an external DAC. The DAC output stage ultimately determines the maximum "level" sent to your amp. Try connecting the receiver to your amp directly (not via the external DAC) and test volume.

dingosurf
2010-01-14, 12:51
I posted in Summer 2009 about having low output from my receiver in comparison to the CD player, but it seemed like I was alone with that problem. Now, going through the threads today I see several cases where the SBR output is significantly less than CD players, etc.

I rip with DbPoweramp - use smartgain (which accounts for a portion of the volume), use audio out (don't have digital input on amp). I'd easily estimate about 20dB - 30 dBs difference from my CD player. There definitely seems to be something wrong with certain SBRs that have low output. Maybe I should send it back and try another one, but I am not convinced that it will make a difference, and am worried I'll just end up with some other problem.

Sorry, I can't be of help to the original poster, but if it's of any consolation, you're not alone.