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dave77
2009-11-09, 01:46
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70620&page=2#19

Can we get some official information on this? One member has been told that the Touch won't be released until next spring. I've pre-ordered and as far as I know it was a December release as stated in the press release (which has now been removed). I have found it here though http://blog.logitech.com/2009/09/03/logitech-unveils-squeezebox-radio-and-squeezebox-touch/ and http://blog.logitech.com/2009/11/03/squeezebox-app-of-the-month-flickr/

didbox
2009-11-09, 11:13
As I also pre-ordered an SB Touch, I'm also very interested by an official answer!

andyg
2009-11-09, 11:29
Anyone who said it was delayed until spring does not have correct information. We do not yet have a firm release date

Ikabob
2009-11-09, 11:46
I,too, am very eager to get the Touch. I know it'll be very cool and will fill a music void in my home. I am not worried about the "growing pains" that will come with this new release, because I know that Logitech has the knowledge to work it out. I hope it is released sometime in November. That way I can give it to the wife for her Christmas present. I also hope someone official answers "when".

andyg
2009-11-09, 11:54
On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Ikabob wrote:

>
> I,too, am very eager to get the Touch. I know it'll be very cool and
> will fill a music void in my home. I am not worried about the "growing
> pains" that will come with this new release, because I know that
> Logitech has the knowledge to work it out. I hope it is released
> sometime in November. That way I can give it to the wife for her
> Christmas present. I also hope someone official answers "when".

I can tell you that it definitely won't be released in November. SB
Radio could make a good Christmas gift though. :)

adydula
2009-11-09, 12:25
Andy,

If you need a beta tester, I am willing!!

I did this for the OPPO BD83 in their EAP program.

I do beta test on PC and software where I work all the time!

Alex

Ikabob
2009-11-09, 12:48
Andy, I already bought her the Radio for my birthday. We are in great need of the Touch. How bout early December?

bluegaspode
2009-11-09, 13:12
Anyone who said it was delayed until spring does not have correct information. We do not yet have a firm release date

which in our business is equal to "not in 2009, if it runs good x-mas 2010" *g*.
But good to know that you don't need to rush this time.

massman
2009-11-09, 16:18
which in our business is equal to "not in 2009, if it runs good x-mas 2010" *g*.
But good to know that you don't need to rush this time.

I'm happy as long as you are not true ! SB Radio is great but won't feed me for Christmas!
Keeping my finger crossed that they will be able to release something in due time (I should say
quickly to be honest) and that they won't be too much constrained by the x-mas 2009 line-up
that has to be frozen or whatever marketing rules will say...

ModelCitizen
2009-11-09, 16:21
Andy, I already bought her the Radio for my birthday. We are in great need of the Touch. How bout early December?
Are you sure your wife would not prefer jewellery?
:-)

MC

didbox
2009-11-09, 22:00
Anyone who said it was delayed until spring does not have correct information. We do not yet have a firm release date

Not an answer for me! Why to announce the SB Touch without knowing a release date??? I'll remove my pre-order. Sorry.

andyg
2009-11-09, 22:07
The original press release said "December". I don't think it hurts to
keep your pre-order, does it? :)

On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:00 AM, didbox <didbox.41f5m01257829207 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com
> wrote:

>
> andyg;483457 Wrote:
>> Anyone who said it was delayed until spring does not have correct
>> information. We do not yet have a firm release date
>
> Not an answer for me! Why to announce the SB Touch without knowing a
> release date??? I'll remove my pre-order. Sorry.
>
>
> --
> didbox
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> didbox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?
> userid=15290
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71178
>
>

pfarrell
2009-11-09, 22:07
didbox wrote:
> andyg;483457 Wrote:
>> Anyone who said it was delayed until spring does not have correct
>> information. We do not yet have a firm release date
>
> Not an answer for me! Why to announce the SB Touch without knowing a
> release date??? I'll remove my pre-order. Sorry.

This is a case that those that know just told you. It was announced for
this year, which includes Dec 31. It could be earlier.

Why announce it? Because some distributors released the product to
customers by mistake. At that point, there was no point in pretending
that it didn't exist, but Logitech and SlimDevices have a policy of not
discussing products in advance. This was a special case because a
distributor screwed up.

I'm still betting on before Christmas, but the software is not finished
yet (its close) and no one can predict when software will be finished.
There is, as with all software, a chance it will slip into next year,
but I don't expect that.

As usual, all my personal opinion, I've been beta testing it, and its
cool, but I don't work for Logitech, SlimDevices/SMD or any related firms.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

erland
2009-11-09, 23:57
Andy, I already bought her the Radio for my birthday. We are in great need of the Touch. How bout early December?

I think you can forget about early December, I'm personally guessing that we will end up in beginning of next year or maybe the end of December. Note, this is just a guess, I have no insight in how much resources Logitech is going to focus on getting it ready before Christmas. They would probably be able to release it sooner if they release it without all promised/planned functionality, but that tends to make some people disappointed. It's all a matter of priorities, reaching the release date vs implementing all promised functionality.

Here is the list of open bugs and enhancements planned. Watch this list getting shorter, when it starts to get short we are getting close to a release date:
https://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?priority=P1&priority=P2&query_format=advanced&order=Importance&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&target_milestone=7.5.0

The list is actually longer, but I excluded anything which isn't P1 or P2 priority which probably will be postponed to next release anyway. My guess is that some P2 priority bugs are probably also going to be postponed to next release.

Philip Meyer
2009-11-10, 01:13
I am worried that something big is going on internally. You've listed a lot of bugs to be fixed; there's still plenty of things to sort out. However, over the last five days, there have only been 5 small checkins.

A few people have recently seen very bad problems with communication to players via Wifi, reported in several threads, but there's been no feedback from any developers. In fact, I think the beta test forums have been very quiet over the last week.

I'd expect quite a lot of chatter at this point, so I'm wondering what's going on.

Could be:
- A well earned break
- Development of some other project that we don't know about
- More development is being done in TinySC branch, and there's lots of changes to be merged across
- Something else

Phil

dave77
2009-11-10, 02:15
The original press release said "December". I don't think it hurts to keep your pre-order, does it? :)

I think when you pre-order a product and hand over your card details, you have the right to know when the product will be delivered and when your card will be debited.

DaveKen
2009-11-10, 02:21
C'mon Logitech, get your act together. The most important part of your business is your customers, and you appear to be going out of your way at the moment to alienate them. You (your appointed representative) slip up and release a product to the world at large and months later it still isn't available, then you compound the error by inviting people to pre-order, still without any reliable indication of release date, then you further compound the error by shortly after taking pre-orders let it be known that the release date may have slipped back to early 2010. I post as a very unhappy customer who has pre-ordered, had the payment taken and then returned - does nothing for your image as being in control of the situation.
I am not great, technically, on such matters but it would appear that the hardware already exists and the problem is the software - correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore you have hardware that needs a software update before it can be used properly. The choice would appear to be for Logitech to recall or take in to house all available hardware, unpack them, update the software, repack them and put them into the market or to release them as is to customers prepared to accept them on that basis and update them over the net as the software gets sorted.
My understanding is that this software update facility is built in to the Touch, so where's the problem?
As I said, I am not great technically on such matters but while ever there is so much confusion people will form their own conclusions, right or wrong. Come clean with your loyal customers, tell them clearly what's going on and end the speculation and uncertainty. At the present moment it looks as though you don't even know what's happening, which is doing your image in the market place a power of no good at all. Time to put out something your customers and potential customers can rely on, IMHO.

Ikabob
2009-11-10, 03:02
Give them a break. As I sit and listen to such beautiful music everywhere in my home thanks to the Logitech system, can't you "cut them some slack" and think positive. Be patient. IMHO :-)

Themis
2009-11-10, 03:10
As long as it comes out for Christmas, it'll be great.

Oh well, even if it doesn't, I'll survive. ;)
I prefer waiting a couple of months more and having a more stable product, with still better options, after all.

funkstar
2009-11-10, 03:15
I am not great, technically, on such matters but it would appear that the hardware already exists and the problem is the software - correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore you have hardware that needs a software update before it can be used properly. The choice would appear to be for Logitech to recall or take in to house all available hardware, unpack them, update the software, repack them and put them into the market or to release them as is to customers prepared to accept them on that basis and update them over the net as the software gets sorted.
My understanding is that this software update facility is built in to the Touch, so where's the problem?
No need to recall any units, on first setup a Touch will download and install the latest available software version. The problem is that the latest beta isn't at a point they are happy with. There are still major issues to be sorted, features to be completed and performance to be improved.

Right now they are in a position of being damned if they do damned if they don't. Logitech are being criticised for holding onto a product to get the software right, if they released it now, they would be criticised for releasing too early and not waiting until the software was right.

:)

ModelCitizen
2009-11-10, 03:22
I am not great, technically, on such matters but it would appear that the hardware already exists and the problem is the software - correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore you have hardware that needs a software update before it can be used properly. The choice would appear to be for Logitech to recall or take in to house all available hardware
AFAIK all the Touch hardware released to the public is in the hands of beta testers, so it would seem to defeat your aims to recall it.

There have been some large changes with the software platform recently. These changes are aimed at putting the software in good stead for future development. Software changes like this, coupled with the stuff required for the new touch screen hardware are bound to be a bit time consuming. Logitech may have jumped the gun with the pre-ordering but they were forced to announce the product due to inept resellers letting the cat out of the bag.

If I was you I could think of the delay as a good thing. Maybe Logitech have felt it necessary to ensure they release a tip-top bug free product. Which would you rather have; a Touch with lots of frustrating bugs now or one that works properly in a couple of months time?

MC

DaveKen
2009-11-10, 04:47
Well, it looks as though I got one thing right at least - Logitech have an extremely loyal (and understanding/forgiving) customer base - I can't wait to join them but it looks as though I'm going to have to (LOL). I still think there's some merit in the points I made - I can't help feeling that events are controlling Logitech when it should be the other way round.
My irritation is fuelled by the fact that I have persuaded my other half to buy a Touch for me for Christmas and no one can or will tell me whether it's gonna be available - do I ask her to delay the purchase until ????? or do I look for another pressy? My birthday is in late May - would I be better planning on it being a birthday pressy? :-).
Cheers,
Dave.

ModelCitizen
2009-11-10, 05:14
My irritation is fuelled by the fact that I have persuaded my other half to buy a Touch for me for Christmas and no one can or will tell me whether it's gonna be available
If I was Logitech I'd be making sure that the Touch was in the shops at least two weeks before Christmas, employing extra developers, whatever it takes... and then that the software was ready by December 25th. :-)

MC

aubuti
2009-11-10, 05:46
I think when you pre-order a product and hand over your card details, you have the right to know when the product will be delivered and when your card will be debited.
The right? You can think that, but it doesn't make it so. More fundamentally, how can you expect to know delivery date when Logitech doesn't? Like funkstar says, people complain about the SB Radio being rushed to market before it was ready, and then want the SB Touch shipping for Christmas '09 no matter how many unresolved bugs there are.

I think (personal opinion, no insider info) that Logitech has missed the Christmas '09 window, and it is in their reputational interest to be sure that the SBT is as solid and feature-complete as it can be on release. If it's a choice between disappointing the pre-order crowd with a delayed release or pissing off the larger group of early buyers with a flawed product and garnering bad reviews, I expect (and hope) they will go for the former.

toby10
2009-11-10, 05:55
.........My irritation is fuelled by the fact that I have persuaded my other half to buy a Touch for me for Christmas and no one can or will tell me whether it's gonna be available - do I ask her to delay the purchase until ????? or do I look for another pressy? My birthday is in late May - would I be better planning on it being a birthday pressy? :-).
Cheers,
Dave.

Yes, delay the purchase. When it is actually available the other half can order it. Hopefully in December, maybe not till March, who knows.
It would be no different then the other half buying you a cruise for X-mas that will not depart till March. You *must* be on the boat on Dec. 25th for it to count?

toby10
2009-11-10, 05:57
Are you sure your wife would not prefer jewellery?
:-)

MC

Or a DeWalt grinder..... that's what I bought my future-ex for Christmas. :)

radish
2009-11-10, 07:45
I think when you pre-order a product and hand over your card details, you have the right to know when the product will be delivered and when your card will be debited.

Then you shouldn't pre-prder something which doesn't have (and has never had) a firm release date. Simple really.

andyg
2009-11-10, 07:57
On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:45 AM, radish wrote:

>
> dave77;483648 Wrote:
>> I think when you pre-order a product and hand over your card details,
>> you have the right to know when the product will be delivered and when
>> your card will be debited.
>
> Then you shouldn't pre-prder something which doesn't have (and has
> never had) a firm release date. Simple really.

And certainly Logitech doesn't charge your card until it ships, right?!

dave77
2009-11-10, 08:28
Then you shouldn't pre-prder something which doesn't have (and has never had) a firm release date. Simple really.

It had a release date of December as stated in their press release. Now that may not be the case, I want to know which month I can expect it, simple!?

aubuti
2009-11-10, 08:49
It had a release date of December as stated in their press release. Now that may not be the case, I want to know which month I can expect it, simple!?
Maybe you've seen a different press release, but the one I saw (http://ir.logitech.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=406806) says: The Logitech Squeezebox Touch Wi-Fi music player is expected to be available in the U.S. and Europe beginning in December.... [emphasis added]. As radish said, they have never had a firm release date.

But asking which month you can expect it is a fair question. Unless Logitech makes an announcement to the contrary, I'd say that for now you should continue to expect it in December. (The source you cite in your OP who gave the "spring" release date also said it was supposed to be launched in October, which is clearly wrong, so I think I'd take Andy's word over that source.)

dean
2009-11-10, 08:55
I think it's fair to say that the team is working hard to release Touch as soon as possible.

The hardware is done (and in fact has already been accidentally sold), it's the software that's not quite finished.

It's an ambitious product and predicting software schedules is hard.

It'll be worth the wait.

Ikabob
2009-11-10, 08:59
Well, it looks as though I got one thing right at least - Logitech have an extremely loyal (and understanding/forgiving) customer base - I can't wait to join them but it looks as though I'm going to have to (LOL). I still think there's some merit in the points I made - I can't help feeling that events are controlling Logitech when it should be the other way round.
My irritation is fuelled by the fact that I have persuaded my other half to buy a Touch for me for Christmas and no one can or will tell me whether it's gonna be available - do I ask her to delay the purchase until ????? or do I look for another pressy? My birthday is in late May - would I be better planning on it being a birthday pressy? :-).
Cheers,
Dave.


Dave glad you seem to be mellowing....yes, we are loyal to Logitech. We know what an awesome product/system it is and ,actually , at reasonable prices. Hang in there Dave. Be patient and don't change to a different pressy. You will be glad you did. As with any sophisticated software/hardware product "patience is a virtue". I actually love my Squeeze System. I listen to beautiful music,listen to interesting talk radio and listen to football games that otherwise would not be available AND I have the benefit of these forums to learn all the intricacies of the products and meet nice respectful knowledgeable people.

toby10
2009-11-10, 09:07
Trust me, the Touch is worth the wait. :)

Keymaster
2009-11-10, 09:29
Trust me, the Touch is worth the wait. :)

I couldn't agree more. Hang in there, friend!!

erland
2009-11-10, 10:39
Trust me, the Touch is worth the wait. :)

It definitely is, the beta unit is the biggest improvement of my living room experience since I got my first SB3 almost three years ago. As a music player it's comparable with the SB3, but with the color touch display, USB connection and Linux operating system it has huge potential to also do other stuff besides playing music.

DaveKen
2009-11-10, 12:11
Trust me, the Touch is worth the wait. :)

I have no idea what, if any, knowledge you have that allows you to be so sure - are you a beta tester? I question the use of the word "is" in the above quote. Not being funny, just looking for some CONFIRMED good news - do either of you making or concurring with this statement have any information that the rest of us are not privy to? Again, not being funny, just asking the question, I'm new here AND to Logitech and Squeezebox products - I asked Father Christmas for one based on several recommendations from fellow audio forum members who have the Classic and who advised me to go for the Touch. I have no doubt it will be as good as eveyone expects. Technically they appear to be a wonderful piece of kit - I just question the way the company has handled the launch from a PR/Marketing/Sales standpoint.
My pre-order will remain in place for the time being - meanwhile has anybody got a Classic I could borrow to minimise my frustration and disappointment :-) ?
Cheers,
Dave.

pfarrell
2009-11-10, 12:18
DaveKen wrote:
> I asked Father Christmas for one based on
> several recommendations from fellow audio forum members who have the
> Classic and who advised me to go for the Touch.

I'm a beta tester. I think it is very cool. Don't know if its gonna get
shipped to make it to Santa's backpack on time. It might, but it needs
software, and no one can make hard dates for software. -- or you can
make a hard date, but can't know what will be in it.

It gets cooler every couple of days, the developers are doing a lot of
work on it.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

toby10
2009-11-10, 12:28
Yes, I'm a beta tester. But we have no more info on release dates than you have.
I'm currently listening to Internet Radio via the Touch's built in server (no computer, no MySB.com). :)

bluegaspode
2009-11-10, 13:50
Maybe you've seen a different press release, but the one I saw (http://ir.logitech.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=406806) says: The Logitech Squeezebox Touch Wi-Fi music player is expected to be available in the U.S. and Europe beginning in December.... [emphasis added]. As Andy said, they have never had a firm release date.

But you do realize, that in the press release there is no year mentioned? Our sales people always use the wording 'won't be finished before may when they mean late december *G*'

Sure it will be ready for christmas.
Not necessarily this christmas ;)



... joking ... :)

Dogberry2
2009-11-10, 13:50
This thread give a very clear indication that Logitech's normal policy of not announcing or discussing new products in advance of their release makes good sense. Why would they intentionally set themselves up for all the whining, bellyaching and kvetching from users who think they have some right to demand a product before it's ready, just because they waaaaant it?

Carrie Fisher was right: for some people, even instant gratification takes too long.

Let a two-year-old see the cookie jar; the two-year-old is gonna want a cookie RIGHT NOW! Infants and toddlers don't understand the concept of waiting. Much simpler on everybody to just keep the cookie jar out of sight.

Themis
2009-11-10, 14:18
I don't mind if you keep the cookie jar out of sight, as long as I have my SB Touch RIGHT NOW ! :D

Ikabob
2009-11-10, 14:31
I think Logitech knows exactly what they are doing. Anticipation is 1/2 the excitement. The more we yearn for something the more we talk about it and the more we want it. So, when it IS released we, and everyone we have excited about it, will jump right on it. I, personally, am so eager to get this and the more I hear (read) people talking about it, the more eager I get. When it comes I want to be the 1st one to order it. After waiting so long, I might even want to order 2 or 3. :-)

I am trying to be patient....but I, also, can feel Dave's pain. So...will some official please let us know WHEN? :-) The Squeezes are soooo cool!

JJZolx
2009-11-10, 14:43
I think Logitech knows exactly what they are doing.

The original target release for the Squeezebox Touch was _May_. I think Logitech wants it released at absolutely the earlier possible date.

autopilot
2009-11-10, 14:59
Having been on the Touch's beta test, i can tell you that you are right to be anxious to get one. In fact, if you knew how good it actually really is you would be even more impatient :P

Hold on to those pre-orders. Good things come to those who wait (not sure if that was a wise old man or a beer advert).

kidstypike
2009-11-10, 15:16
I've had one on order for a few days now.
If it doesn't arrive soon, I'm going to write to my MP ... and put a strong letter in "The Times".

JohnSwenson
2009-11-10, 16:35
I have no doubt it will be as good as eveyone expects. Technically they appear to be a wonderful piece of kit - I just question the way the company has handled the launch from a PR/Marketing/Sales standpoint.
Cheers,
Dave.

I'm also a beta tester for the Touch, I also don't have any inside knowledge as to when it will actually ship. But I can offer a little hint as to what was going on before the announcement.

During the summer there were several leaks about the Touch showing up on the internet. At first just rumors then pictures etc. There was a lot of buzz going on and a lot of misinformation about what it was and what it could do.

Due to our NDAs with Logitech we could not say anything about these reports even though we were chomping at the bit to dispell some of the misconceptions and misinformation. Logitech was staunchly not saying anything about it officially and was starting to look very foolish doing so. People were saying they had seen one or knew someone that had seen one etc and Logitech was saying "We have no idea what you are talking about", eventually they had to officially say something.

I think the last straw was when some retailer offered them up for sale on their web page and actually shipped one. Now there was a real live customer that actually had one in his hands posting about it on the web, there was no way Logitech could continue to deny its existence. They HAD to officially announce it.

So I don't think it was a crafty underhanded tool for increasing expectation but more of a necessity given what was happening on the web.

Oh and yes it REALLY is good!!

John S.

Ikabob
2009-11-10, 16:37
I plan on ordering from Logitech and they don't have pre- ordering yet. I wish they did.

snarlydwarf
2009-11-10, 17:10
:: cough :: buy a Radio to stave off your addiction for a few weeks.

(You know you will have to buy one at some point anyway, since SB players by nature are addictive... so may as well get it now.)

usch
2009-11-10, 17:25
Anticipation is 1/2 the excitement. The more we yearn for something the more we talk about it and the more we want it. So, when it IS released we, and everyone we have excited about it, will jump right on it.
That didn't work for me though. As I already wrote in another thread, had the Touch and the Radio (the red one as shown on the early product images!) been available when they announced them, I would have bought one of each right on the spot. But even two months later the Radio is still only available in black here, and the Touch not at all. In the meantime I was so tired of waiting that I bought a used Boom and a pair of SB1s on eBay for less than 200 € altogether, which means I am much less likely to buy a Touch now, and very unlikely to buy a Radio. :(


I think the last straw was when some retailer offered them up for sale on their web page and actually shipped one.
Does that mean that (unlike the Radio when it was released) the Touch is actually already in stock at the stores and just waiting for Logitech's "Go!"?

Brasso
2009-11-10, 17:52
Hi, I'm the person who was told the Spring release date. It came from a European customers services rep (who could have had incorrect info). I wish I hadn't mentioned it now.

I had pre-ordered but my order was cancelled - which started the dialogue with customer services in the first place. However I'm happy to wait for what sounds like a great product and will probably order more than one as soon as I get the email to say that orders are being taken again.

I've only been a (very happy) squeezebox customer for a couple of months and can see me joining the loyal band.

If anyone is waiting for a touch and wants it for Xmas why cancel now - wait until Xmas and cancel then if its not ready?

maggior
2009-11-10, 19:21
I think Logitech knows exactly what they are doing. Anticipation is 1/2 the excitement. The more we yearn for something the more we talk about it and the more we want it. So, when it IS released we, and everyone we have excited about it, will jump right on it. I, personally, am so eager to get this and the more I hear (read) people talking about it, the more eager I get. When it comes I want to be the 1st one to order it. After waiting so long, I might even want to order 2 or 3. :-)

I am trying to be patient....but I, also, can feel Dave's pain. So...will some official please let us know WHEN? :-) The Squeezes are soooo cool!


This only works up to a point. If you drag it out too long with no teasers in the meantime, it becomes counter productive and has an impact completely opposite of what was intended.

Look at these forums now compared to before the announcement - there was MUCH more buzz.

Too much time has gone by and I find myself not caring. I suspect others feel the same.

aubuti
2009-11-10, 20:20
I think the last straw was when some retailer offered them up for sale on their web page and actually shipped one.
Does that mean that (unlike the Radio when it was released) the Touch is actually already in stock at the stores and just waiting for Logitech's "Go!"?
No, amazingly this person happened to contact the only retailer who had them, and the retailer had exactly one unit. And now it's gone, into the wild. What were the odds of that happening? ;o)

There's a pretty amusing thread started by the lucky winner: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67109

didbox
2009-11-15, 00:38
The original press release said "December". I don't think it hurts to
keep your pre-order, does it? :)

On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:00 AM, didbox <didbox.41f5m01257829207 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com
> wrote:

>
> andyg;483457 Wrote:
>> Anyone who said it was delayed until spring does not have correct
>> information. We do not yet have a firm release date
>
> Not an answer for me! Why to announce the SB Touch without knowing a
> release date??? I'll remove my pre-order. Sorry.
>
>
> --
> didbox
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> didbox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?
> userid=15290
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71178
>
>
Hello,

No but taking into account the current status of development (about 120 P1/P2 defects) I have some doubts...

amcluesent
2009-11-15, 01:55
Missing the 'holiday season' will be pretty bad for sales and revenue targets in the Squeezebox division. Some 'rightsizing' on the way?

Then again, tech marketing is dominated by Windows 7 now, so maybe Logitech's marketing budget would have got lost in the noise. I see in London that the ads for the Radio are featuring something do to with Queen. Is the "Grandad" market segment so attractive?

usch
2009-11-15, 11:20
I see in London that the ads for the Radio are featuring something do to with Queen. Is the "Grandad" market segment so attractive?

I don't get that either. Even though I am old enough to remember how excited I was about Killer Queen in 1974, I would have preferred a Ladytron freebie going with the Ladytron cover on their product images. :)

brucegrr
2009-11-15, 11:46
Is the "Grandad" market segment so attractive?

Yes it is :) We are the most affluent and self-centered part of the market, and as baby-boomers we are a huge target market. We are retiring at record numbers so we have lots of "time" on our hands. Time to listen to Queen .

But.......give me Staind, Theory of a Deadman... :)

Now maybe you meant attractive in the physical sense. In that case.........not in about 20 years :)

bluegaspode
2009-11-15, 13:35
Me and my wife are in the late twenties and listen to Queen.
So we are a target group as well.

Shame on me.

Themis
2009-11-15, 14:12
Me and my wife are in the late twenties and listen to Queen.
So we are a target group as well.

Shame on me.Why a shame ? My children (13 and 17) both like Queen... Well, not anything by Queen, but Bohemian Rhapsody (for instance) for sure !

brucegrr
2009-11-15, 14:32
Me and my wife are in the late twenties and listen to Queen.
So we are a target group as well.

Shame on me.

No shame on you. Good taste.

We have three children at home...16,28,20. They contend they know all the words to my generation's music because they have had to hear the songs ten thousand times. :)

We are quite eclectic in our home. from Southern Gospel to Metallica and the Carpenters and Carrie Underwood in-between.

I do think 70's music is used subtly in a lot of advertising to appeal to baby boomers. We are such a simple lot. :)

Muele
2009-11-16, 01:40
Is the "Grandad" market segment so attractive?

Well, judging by this excellent thread it is just about the right segment to go for. That is not "grandad", but anyone who were listening to music when Freddie was still alive.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60808

themrock
2009-11-18, 02:00
Yesterday i got a message from Amazon (Germany) that my Touch will be delivered to me between 10 and 20 December.

Listener
2009-11-18, 13:36
> "Instant gratification takes too long."

After I read through post after post of whining and assertions of entitlements, your title made my day. Thanks.

Bill

dave77
2009-11-20, 03:02
Yesterday i got a message from Amazon (Germany) that my Touch will be delivered to me between 10 and 20 December.

Excellent, not heard anything myself but hopefully UK should be the same :)

Tripmaster
2009-11-20, 03:10
Excellent, not heard anything myself but hopefully UK should be the same :)

My fingers and toes are crossed! :)

Themis
2009-11-20, 07:23
My fingers and toes are crossed! :)
I even obliged my wife and children to cross their fingers as well ! :)

Ken
2009-11-21, 07:06
My order from logitech has clearly moved on, at least administratively (is that a word?) in that the option to cancel is no longer available and I can now view my invoice. But there are no dates on the invoice.
All very tantalising.

Ken

shevans
2009-11-21, 07:42
My order from logitech has clearly moved on, at least administratively (is that a word?) in that the option to cancel is no longer available and I can now view my invoice. But there are no dates on the invoice.
All very tantalising.

Ken

The bad news I'm afraid is that I'm also in the UK and never had an option to cancel and have since the 21st October been able to view my invoice! I'm still hopeful...

themrock
2009-11-22, 23:10
Yesterday i got a message from Amazon (Germany) that my Touch will be delivered to me between 10 and 20 December.

Unfortunately today i got a message that the touch cant get delivered and that my order is canceld

DaveKen
2009-11-23, 02:22
Yesterday i got a message from Amazon (Germany) that my Touch will be delivered to me between 10 and 20 December.
Unfortunately today i got a message that the touch cant get delivered and that my order is cancelled

I posted some time ago that Logitech Sales & Marketing had not covered themselves in glory with the way they had managed (or rather, not managed) the launch of the touch, and I got a gentle ear-bashing. Does anyone want to disagree now, in the light of the above quote?
What a shambles - thank God the Technical side seems to be a little better at their job than the Sales side, even if they appear to be no better organised, IMHO.

shevans
2009-11-23, 03:47
OK, I voted with my wallet and cancelled my Touch order, I'll review it again at some point next year....

kesey
2009-11-23, 05:01
What a shambles - thank God the Technical side seems to be a little better at their job than the Sales side, even if they appear to be no better organised, IMHO.

DaveKen, while we'd all like a bit of clarity on the situation regarding the Touch release, let's not overstate the case.

Many of us have Squeezeboxes, Transporters, Duets, Booms etc with which we are more than happy. In a perfect world, we'd be able to buy everything when we want it. The Logitech/Slim team have hard work going on trying to maintain compatibility with legacy machines and the newer stuff. While I would be more than happy to take a Touch as is, and play along while its evolution occurs, many potential owners would have major hissy fits if they were supplied with equipment which hiccuped now and then.

DaveKen
2009-11-23, 06:06
DaveKen, while we'd all like a bit of clarity on the situation regarding the Touch release, let's not overstate the case.

Many of us have Squeezeboxes, Transporters, Duets, Booms etc with which we are more than happy. In a perfect world, we'd be able to buy everything when we want it. The Logitech/Slim team have hard work going on trying to maintain compatibility with legacy machines and the newer stuff. While I would be more than happy to take a Touch as is, and play along while its evolution occurs, many potential owners would have major hissy fits if they were supplied with equipment which hiccuped now and then.

Hi Kesey
I still don't think I've overstated ANYTHING, sorry. I agree with pretty much everything in the second paragraph above but that doesn't change the facts of the situation. I spent the last 35 years of my working life largely involved in Sales and Marketing and in all that time I've never seen a new product launch so badly handled. Letting it out early was bad enough (all right, not all their fault but surely some blame can be laid at their door), but the ongoing backwards revisions of the release date, then the soliciting of pre-orders, (normally taken as an indication that release is imminent and KNOWN), then the acknowledgement of these pre-orders and in some cases the taking of payment and it's subsequent refunding, and now these apparent order cancellations - what a debacle !!!
I exclude the Technical guys from this criticism (unless of course they were consulted about the launch date announcement, as would normally be the case in any organisation), but even they appear to be operating in an uncoordinated manner.
It may well turn out to be a wonderful product but when are we ever going to know when we shall see one - surely not too much to ask of any new product.
All IMHO of course - anybody else agree?
DaveKen.

dave77
2009-11-23, 06:31
but the ongoing backwards revisions of the release date, then the soliciting of pre-orders, (normally taken as an indication that release is imminent and KNOWN), then the acknowledgement of these pre-orders and in some cases the taking of payment and it's subsequent refunding, and now these apparent order cancellations - what a debacle !!!

I don't think Logitech has made any announcement about putting back the release date since it's original press statement saying December and the cancellation was Amazon, not Logitech.

aubuti
2009-11-23, 07:18
I don't think Logitech has made any announcement about putting back the release date since it's original press statement saying December and the cancellation was Amazon, not Logitech.
Likewise, I could be mistaken, but I don't believe Logitech has charged any credit cards for the pre-orders either. As well as separating out the techs from the marketing folks, it's also a good idea to distinguish Logitech from the resellers.

DaveKen
2009-11-23, 07:18
I don't think Logitech has made any announcement about putting back the release date since it's original press statement saying December and the cancellation was Amazon, not Logitech.

Hi Dave,
I've only recently got involved interested in the Touch but I thought that Logitech had previously announced a release date for MUCH earlier in the year but if this is incorrect I'll apologise and withdraw the remark.
However, if that's the only non-fact in my statement it doesn't really change much does it?
If there is any one person with responsibility for Marketing the Touch (rather than a collection of uncoordinated individuals), it would be nice to hear what he has to say - I still say it's a debacle!!

DaveKen
2009-11-23, 07:24
Likewise, I could be mistaken, but I don't believe Logitech has charged any credit cards for the pre-orders either. As well as separating out the techs from the marketing folks, it's also a good idea to distinguish Logitech from the resellers.

Hi aubuti,
No, I can assure you of the following FACTS: -
1) my order was placed DIRECT with Logitech to take advantage of the 20% pre-order discount,
2) my debit card was debited within 24 hours, but 24 hours later the sum was credited back into the account.
I also believe that at least one other person has posted here saying that the same thing happened to them.

aubuti
2009-11-23, 07:44
Hi aubuti,
No, I can assure you of the following FACTS: -
1) my order was placed DIRECT with Logitech to take advantage of the 20% pre-order discount,
2) my debit card was debited within 24 hours, but 24 hours later the sum was credited back into the account.
I also believe that at least one other person has posted here saying that the same thing happened to them.
Thanks for clarifying with facts about the debiting and near-instant refund (but no need to shout).

As for the announced release date (your reply to dave77), the only announcement that Logitech ever made was in September at the consumer electronics show in Berlin (I forget the name), when they said "The Logitech Squeezebox Touch Wi-Fi music player is expected to be available in the U.S. and Europe beginning in December...." (see: http://ir.logitech.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=406806)

DaveKen
2009-11-23, 09:04
Thanks for clarifying with facts about the debiting and near-instant refund (but no need to shout).
Sorry, I'm new to forum posting also and I forgot that upper case is the equivalent of shouting - I looked for 'bold' text and couldn't find it - apologies.


As for the announced release date (your reply to dave77), the only announcement that Logitech ever made was in September at the consumer electronics show in Berlin (I forget the name), when they said "[I]The Logitech Squeezebox Touch Wi-Fi music player is expected to be available in the U.S. and Europe beginning in December.
If that is the case, (and I ain't doubting you), I stand corrected but I am sure that I have seen it written somewhere that the originally announced release date was much earlier - maybe I am confusing the statement made in September with a September release date.

aubuti
2009-11-23, 11:37
Sorry, I'm new to forum posting also and I forgot that upper case is the equivalent of shouting - I looked for 'bold' text and couldn't find it - apologies.
no problem, no foul


If that is the case, (and I ain't doubting you), I stand corrected but I am sure that I have seen it written somewhere that the originally announced release date was much earlier - maybe I am confusing the statement made in September with a September release date.
Maybe you're thinking of the other day when one of the other SB Touch beta testers mentioned on these forums that there had been talk of releasing the SBT as early as May 2009. But that was never a public statement, and Logitech never admitted to the existence of the SB Touch until early September, despite lots of leaks in the online press, and the famous case of a reseller who sold a unit long before he should have. Note also the qualifier in the September press release: "...expected to be available in December..." -- a firm date still has not been given.

DaveKen
2009-11-23, 11:53
Maybe you're thinking of the other day when one of the other SB Touch beta testers mentioned on these forums that there had been talk of releasing the SBT as early as May 2009.

Hi, Thanks for that - I think that may have been what I was thinking about. My first thought on this was to suggest that the first 'release' date was (very) early in the year but drew back from that because it seemed so unlikely in the current circumstances.
Cheers.

local.bin
2009-11-24, 03:15
I am just about to call Logitech as they have indeed taken payment for my pre order touch.

Granted it is not for the right amount, but payment has been taken.

Regards

DaveKen
2009-11-24, 03:42
I am just about to call Logitech as they have indeed taken payment for my pre order touch.

Granted it is not for the right amount, but payment has been taken.

Regards

Hi local bin,
Please keep us posted with any response from them - I'm sure you would anyway. I sincerely hope that this is an indication that release is imminent rather than the more likely (IMHO) indication that Logitech really are totally disorganised.

local.bin
2009-11-24, 04:48
Hi local bin,
Please keep us posted with any response from them - I'm sure you would anyway. I sincerely hope that this is an indication that release is imminent rather than the more likely (IMHO) indication that Logitech really are totally disorganised.

It appears that the payment was a correction for my previous order of the squeezebox radio, so the payment was correct when it was explained to me.

No payment has been taken for the touch and indeed the helpful support person explained that their was a delay on the touch and general release was due Feb 2010.

I was told though that as I pre ordered I would receive the touch in Dec/Jan prior to the general release.

There was no guarantee and I got the general feeling that it wouldn't be here for my Christmas stocking! but heres to hoping! :)

Regards

SilverRS8
2009-11-28, 10:35
On wifimedia.eu the release date has been changed from November/December to late December/early 2010. They are often right ( as proven in the past). I'm afraid the Touch won't be the Christmas present under the tree for a lot of us ;-(

jeffstake
2009-12-10, 00:01
Hi aubuti,
No, I can assure you of the following FACTS: -
1) my order was placed DIRECT with Logitech to take advantage of the 20% pre-order discount,
2) my debit card was debited within 24 hours, but 24 hours later the sum was credited back into the account.
I also believe that at least one other person has posted here saying that the same thing happened to them.

What do I do to get the 20% pre-order discount? What is the price after discount?
thanks!

Muele
2009-12-10, 01:25
What do I do to get the 20% pre-order discount? What is the price after discount?
thanks!

It was a general logitech discount code that expired october 31.

DaveKen
2009-12-10, 02:36
What do I do to get the 20% pre-order discount? What is the price after discount?
thanks!

'Fraid it'a bit bit late now I fear. There was a link on Logitech's Touch web page briefly but it wasn't there long.

jeffstake
2009-12-10, 08:39
That's too bad. I would have pre-ordered if given a decent incentive to do so.

dpmark
2009-12-10, 11:10
Engadget is reporting that Logitech now says February 2010 for availability.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/10/squeezebox-touch-delayed-until-february-bah-humbug/

dave77
2009-12-11, 02:53
Engadget is reporting that Logitech now says February 2010 for availability.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/10/squeezebox-touch-delayed-until-february-bah-humbug/

Cheers, not too long to wait :) There's sales dept (UK) is poor though, they should tell us that have pre-ordered via email at least

Ikabob
2009-12-11, 04:22
I was notified by email from Logitech that mine would be ready on January 15, 2010. I have not been informed of any change to this by Logitech. I don't think I can wait any longer.

dave77
2009-12-11, 05:25
I was notified by email from Logitech that mine would be ready on January 15, 2010.

When was that and where did you order it from? UK Logitech?

Tripmaster
2009-12-11, 05:43
I ordered mine from Logitech in October and I haven't been told anything. It would be nice to have an update every once in a while...

I wish Logitech would set the record straight and put a stop to all this speculation.

iPhone
2009-12-11, 08:50
I ordered mine from Logitech in October and I haven't been told anything. It would be nice to have an update every once in a while...

I wish Logitech would set the record straight and put a stop to all this speculation.

In a way they already have, it will ship when the Firmware and Serverware are finished. There are ways to estimate this, but its software, so all bets are off on picking or setting an exact date until said software is very very close to being where they want it.

As a Beta Tester, trust me when I say the wait will be well worth the released product.

kesey
2009-12-11, 09:06
http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/10/squeezebox-touch-delayed-until-february-bah-humbug/

Engadget comment: "Despite being proudly introduced to the world in early September, it seems as if Logitech's Squeezebox Touch is still fighting the good fight on its way to mass production. Originally, the device was slated to go on sale this month in order to get wrapped and tucked beneath a-many Christmas tree, but now we've heard directly from the company that it won't be shipping out until February 2010."


"Statement from Logitech Public Relations:
Due to an unexpected product delay, this product will not be available (for review or sale) until February 2010. I apologize for any inconvenience this delay may have caused you."

That is on Engadget "dated by Darren Murph Dec 10th 2009 at 12:52PM"

Tripmaster
2009-12-11, 09:11
In a way they already have, it will ship when the Firmware and Serverware are finished. There are ways to estimate this, but its software, so all bets are off on picking or setting an exact date until said software is very very close to being where they want it.

As a Beta Tester, trust me when I say the wait will be well worth the released product.

Hi iPhone

I hope its worth the wait. The information on this forum only goes so far, and it relies on those who have pre-ordered to check this forum regularly. There are bound to be customers who don't view the forum and are wondering what's going on. Logitech have email addresses of those who have pre-ordered and surely it would make sense to send an official update once or twice a month.

It just comes down to good customer relations, it certainly doesn't cost anything.

Best wishes

Richard :)

Tripmaster
2009-12-11, 09:14
"Statement from Logitech Public Relations:
Due to an unexpected product delay, this product will not be available (for review or sale) until February 2010. I apologize for any inconvenience this delay may have caused you."

Why was this not sent to me?

kesey
2009-12-11, 09:27
Why was this not sent to me?

Pick your favourite reason:

1: 42
2: It was only sent to Irish contributors to Engadget
3: Only sent to friends of Ali G.

Tripmaster
2009-12-11, 09:35
Number 4 :)

-----

That's not not my point, this kind of information should be automatically sent to those who have pre-ordered. Its just a simple case of managing the customers expectation.

iPhone
2009-12-11, 10:02
Number 4 :)

-----

That's not not my point, this kind of information should be automatically sent to those who have pre-ordered. Its just a simple case of managing the customers expectation.

I agree that would be nice, but at the same time what impression is made if one keeps getting Email after Email and no unit.

"Hi, we hope to ship last week of November"

"Hi, looks like we will ship first week of December"

"Hello, looks like we will ship Christmas week"

"Thanks for waiting, we plan to ship second week of January"

And on and on, at some point the Emails then become pointless and more of salt being rubbed in an open wound. A single Email to all pre-orders of, "Hey, we have run into a delay and want the Touch to be all you except it to be and it will ship as soon as the firmware/software is consumer ready" I agree might have been nice.

I feel you guys pain. I want to order a bunch of the Touch myself because I know what it can do and how it is going to be a main part of a whole house audio system.

aubuti
2009-12-11, 10:05
That's not not my point, this kind of information should be automatically sent to those who have pre-ordered. Its just a simple case of managing the customers expectation.
I agree that a simple email acknowledging delays should have been sent to people who pre-ordered. Like Tripmaster says, it's just basic customer relations. Just leaving them hanging out there with zero communication is poor form.

kesey
2009-12-11, 10:22
Tripmaster, while awaiting the Touch, you could consider buying a Squeezebox Classic. Amazon Germany appear to have the best price at the moment: EUR 129.97

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000LWGPQ0/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p23_i1?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1B45GMVRRMDDTHP6QKK4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375173&pf_rd_i=301128

The interesting thing about the Squeezebox family is that once you start using one, esp. the Classic and hopefully in due turn the Touch, you get hungry for another. I bought a Boom a couple of weeks are from Amazon.co.uk for £149.95. That is in the Kitchen, while the Squeezebox is in my home cinema/music room (former kids playroom). I tend to listen to music via the Squeezebox more than to watch movies,, concerts etc.

P.S. The Squeezebox Classic at that price is well worth the investment.

Ikabob
2009-12-11, 11:08
"The interesting thing about the Squeezebox family is that once you start using one, esp. the Classic and hopefully in due turn the Touch, you get hungry for another."

I definitely agree that buying Squeezes does become habit-forming. My home is becoming totally engulfed with beautiful music. There are more Squeezes yet to come and I can eventually imagine me having the compelling need to put one in the crawl-space of the basement. Of course that will be when the wife sets up
my bed in that space. But, then again, I just might be happy there... Just me and my main Squeeze.

Ken
2009-12-13, 16:52
Shevans,

How did you cancel your order? I have grown tired of waiting and along with other issues with my system decided to cancel. 2 phone calls to the European E-Commerce section have left the order apparently still being processed. Whilst the people I talk to attempt to be helpful I am not entirely convinced that English is their first language which is hampering communication.

I suppose if I fail to cancel the order at least with a 20% discount it should be easy to sell on at no loss, but I'd rather avoid this hassle.

This re-inforces to me that customer service outside of the US is not all it should be with squeezebox products.

Ken

shevans
2009-12-13, 23:36
Shevans,

How did you cancel your order? I have grown tired of waiting and along with other issues with my system decided to cancel. 2 phone calls to the European E-Commerce section have left the order apparently still being processed. Whilst the people I talk to attempt to be helpful I am not entirely convinced that English is their first language which is hampering communication.

I suppose if I fail to cancel the order at least with a 20% discount it should be easy to sell on at no loss, but I'd rather avoid this hassle.

This re-inforces to me that customer service outside of the US is not all it should be with squeezebox products.

Ken

I telephoned Logitech on the e-commerce number +44 (0)203 024 81 60, received a incident number and told that I would then receive an email to confirm the cancellation of my order. The e-mail did arrive but took over a week!

I had ordered mine with the 20% discount, but just could not be bothered with tracking the order. I bought another SB3 (new old stock in white) so happy for the moment.

Mnyb
2009-12-14, 00:10
Hmm the Swedish logitech does not communicate either ?

I got a suggestion , send me the hardware now and I'll enroll in the beta testing . I would gladly enjoy one of those large lindt chocolate boxes as compensation ;)

Seriously , it shares software with the controller so it can not even in it's beta stage be more broken than the controller already is ?
I'm already conditioned to this level of malfunctionness ;)

I already have server so the not complete "tiny SC" would not bother me

Ken
2009-12-14, 05:12
I telephoned Logitech on the e-commerce number +44 (0)203 024 81 60, received a incident number and told that I would then receive an email to confirm the cancellation of my order. The e-mail did arrive but took over a week!

I had ordered mine with the 20% discount, but just could not be bothered with tracking the order. I bought another SB3 (new old stock in white) so happy for the moment.

Thanks for that. Looks like I followed the correct process and am just being impatient about the email confirming the cancellation.

Ken

Ken
2009-12-14, 10:11
The cancellation email turned up this afternoon!!


Ken

iPhone
2009-12-14, 10:35
The cancellation email turned up this afternoon!!


Ken

Remember, no bitching when others start receiving their Touch and you have to wait in line again because you just have to have one. You have given up your spot at the head of the line!

Ikabob
2009-12-14, 12:15
I think that I may have been the 1st to pre-order. I had been checking routinely and then suddenly there it was..."available for pre- ordering"and I ordered it immediately. Therefore, I might just be número uno! No way am I going to withdraw from that distinction.

dave77
2009-12-15, 04:42
I wonder if those that pre-ordered in the UK will have to pay 17.5% VAT now, invoice says 15% so hopefully not

Kevint
2009-12-15, 04:53
I wonder if those that pre-ordered in the UK will have to pay 17.5% VAT now, invoice says 15% so hopefully not

I guess if they haven't taken your money yet then you have not entered into a contract yet and the vatman will be after 17.5%. if that is true then hopefully Logitech will see sense for those with pre-orders and adjust the pre-VAT price or throw in some freebies.

elziko
2009-12-15, 07:25
As I understand it if you are invoiced before VAT increases back to 17.5% then you pay the lower 15% rate.

It is the invoice date that is important, not the payment date.

MrRalph
2009-12-15, 09:03
I just received an order update from my Dutch shop wifimedia.eu that the Touch is delayed until April (2010).

verypsb
2009-12-15, 09:19
I just received an order update from my Dutch shop wifimedia.eu that the Touch is delayed until April (2010).

In the order update they said they received this info from Logitech.

DaveKen
2009-12-15, 15:23
I just received an order update from my Dutch shop wifimedia.eu that the Touch is delayed until April (2010).

If this turns out to be true someone(s) at Logitech should be fired. This must be the worst ever product launch in commercial history, IMHO, and will be used in management colleges as an example of how it should NOT be done for decades to come - what a shambles, made worse by no one at Logitech prepared to put their head above the barricade and say something official. It's as if no one at Logitech wants to be associated with such a farce and all are hoping that if they ignore it maybe someone else will get involved. With this total lack of leadership on the programme maybe it's no wonder that the launch date seems to be slipping two months every month. One wonders if it will ever get to market.
When is Logitech going to announce some real information instead of the non-information that has been issued thus far.

kesey
2009-12-15, 15:50
Maybe we only said this in the beta tester forum, but yes, as of now Touch will not ship until sometime in February.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=495829&postcount=35


DaveKen, there you go.

Logitech obviously want to wait until they have the software for the Touch as right as possible. While I'd be perfectly happy to take the Touch as is and play with it, I can see what they are about.

I absolutely believe as you do that no other company since the dawn of history has got embroiled in a vapourware situation. In fact each and every Logitech manager should be taken out each morning before breakfast and horse-whipped with gusto.

Do you feel better now?

DaveKen
2009-12-15, 16:18
Hi kesey,
This is exactly what I was complaining about - which bit of leaked information/rumour/disinformation should we chose to believe. Somebody has got to crawl out of the long grass at Logitech and say something official that we can all rely on and look forward to with confidence. It leads me to the inevitable conclusion that nobody is really in charge and therefore nobody really knows what is going on - how else could such a situation be allowed to deteriorate to such a depth.
And "No" I don't feel better and I won't until I get a Touch in my hand, or get fed up of being treated like an irrelevance by Logitech and give my money to someone more appreciative of the hand that feeds them.

aubuti
2009-12-15, 16:40
What exactly do you want? Here's a Logitech employee, one of the main SBT developers, saying February. Would you feel better if it were someone from marketing saying it? And andyg was careful to qualify his statement with "as of now Touch will not ship until sometime in February [emphasis added]. They might not get the software finished by February, just like they didn't meet the earlier the targets. I'm sure Logitech doesn't want to get beaten up for being late and having major bugs. It's too late to do anything about the former, but they are doing something about the latter. It takes time and they will release it when the software is ready. If you can't accept that level of uncertainty -- and I can see why some people can't -- then maybe you should look elsewhere.

Btw, you may have read that a couple months ago Logitech completely reorganized the unit working on SBs. So something is being done about the situation, though we'll have to wait for the B-school case studies to see if it was the right things.

bluegaspode
2009-12-15, 17:01
come on aubuti.

as much as I like andy for telling us dates. It shouldn't be his task !

I think all people having preordered deserve a direct information, shouldn't they ?
I mean - people ordering at other stores get faster information then people having ordered directly with logitech ?

Good management (and this also includes marketing) stands in front of its developers and doesn't use them as cannon fodder

DaveKen
2009-12-15, 17:05
First aubuti,
I had no idea of the identity or position of kesey - as far as I knew he was just another fragment of the information/misinformation supply chain,
Second, if Logitech really have re-organised the unit working on SBs, (I wouldn't know and don't really care 'cos it doesn't change anything from a disappointed potential customers viewpoint), it is confirmation that they recognise and accept that things weren't going well. Again, from a disappointed potential customers viewpoint, the reorganisation doesn't appear to have changed anything for the better, as far as I can see. What does that fact itself tell you about Logitech upper management?
Third, nothing of what you say alters the basic underlying problem: - why won't someone from Logitech come forward and make some sort of helpful statement - surely bad news is much better than no news at all. The company, as represented by the shower in charge of this shambles, is showing noithing but absolute content for the most important part of their organisation, namely their customer base.
I can readily accept and understand that things don't always go to plan - shit happens - but what I can't understand or accept is that everyone is being left clutching at unofficial or semi official snippets of so called information, the only benefit of which is that it allows Logitech to keep claiming (see many other threads and posts here) that they Logitech, have not let anybody down because they have never officially announced a firm release date - they may be happy with that defence but I (and I suspect many other people) certainly am not.
The whole situation is an utter shambles and continues to be made worse by Logitech apologists trying to pretend otherwise, IMHO.
and with that,
Goodnight :-)

pfarrell
2009-12-15, 17:12
DaveKen wrote:
> Third, nothing of what you say alters the basic underlying problem: -
> why won't someone from Logitech come forward and make some sort of
> helpful statement - surely bad news is much better than no news at
> all.

I don't understand you guys.
AndyG is "someone from Logitech", specifically from the Streaming Media
Division of Logitech that makes, designs, and sells the SqueezeBoxen
including the Touch.

You want blood or something?

You don't know that Andy works for Logitech and when he says "looks like
Feb" it means Logitech is saying "Feb"?

I know these forums have a lot of new folks lately, but please, get a clue.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

aubuti
2009-12-15, 17:14
come on aubuti.

as much as I like andy for telling us dates. It shouldn't be his task !

I think all people having preordered deserve a direct information, shouldn't they ?
I mean - people ordering at other stores get faster information then people having ordered directly with logitech ?

Good management (and this also includes marketing) stands in front of its developers and doesn't use them as cannon fodder
Yes, I agree, and I've said as much before (see post #101 in this very same thread (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=494587#post494587)). If the objective is to get information about release dates, there's the information. If you want to discount it because andyg is a developer then go ahead, but he has a better idea of where things stand than some retailer in Amsterdam. On the other hand, if the objective is to whip Logitech for bungling this, then go ahead.

kdf
2009-12-15, 17:26
> You want blood or something?

as with many cases, the complaint probably has more to do with the message
than who is delivering it. Blaming a person is an easier way of making it
seem like the message is something that could actually change in the hands
of a more important person.

-k

pfarrell
2009-12-15, 17:29
kdf wrote:
> as with many cases, the complaint probably has more to do with the message
> than who is delivering it. Blaming a person is an easier way of making it
> seem like the message is something that could actually change in the hands
> of a more important person.

Right, as if a VP of Marketing or some such title actually knows more
about when the software will be done than Andyg.

The only way that the Marketing folks know that software is done is when
the QA/QC folks tell them that it is done now. And the QA/QC folks don't
make projections about the future.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

erland
2009-12-15, 17:31
Third, nothing of what you say alters the basic underlying problem: - why won't someone from Logitech come forward and make some sort of helpful statement - surely bad news is much better than no news at all. The company, as represented by the shower in charge of this shambles, is showing noithing but absolute content for the most important part of their organisation, namely their customer base.
I can readily accept and understand that things don't always go to plan - shit happens - but what I can't understand or accept is that everyone is being left clutching at unofficial or semi official snippets of so called information, the only benefit of which is that it allows Logitech to keep claiming (see many other threads and posts here) that they Logitech, have not let anybody down because they have never officially announced a firm release date - they may be happy with that defence but I (and I suspect many other people) certainly am not.
The whole situation is an utter shambles and continues to be made worse by Logitech apologists trying to pretend otherwise, IMHO.
and with that,
Goodnight :-)

Have you tried calling your retailer where you pre-ordered the product ?
That would be the logical place for Logitech to make official information available. This is just a community forum where some members of the Logitech team happens to be moderators and members in.

If you want a accurate date, you can't get a better one than from one of the lead developers who really knows what's left to do.

If you want an official date, you really need to contact the retailer that let you pre-order the product. I suppose this would be some Logitech sales person of some kind. This sales person would also be the logical place to forward your complaints to, but I suppose you have already done this ?

aubuti
2009-12-15, 17:35
First aubuti,
I had no idea of the identity or position of kesey - as far as I knew he was just another fragment of the information/misinformation supply chain,
Second, if Logitech really have re-organised the unit working on SBs, (I wouldn't know and don't really care 'cos it doesn't change anything from a disappointed potential customers viewpoint), it is confirmation that they recognise and accept that things weren't going well. Again, from a disappointed potential customers viewpoint, the reorganisation doesn't appear to have changed anything for the better, as far as I can see. What does that fact itself tell you about Logitech upper management?
Third, nothing of what you say alters the basic underlying problem: - why won't someone from Logitech come forward and make some sort of helpful statement - surely bad news is much better than no news at all. The company, as represented by the shower in charge of this shambles, is showing noithing but absolute content for the most important part of their organisation, namely their customer base.
I can readily accept and understand that things don't always go to plan - shit happens - but what I can't understand or accept is that everyone is being left clutching at unofficial or semi official snippets of so called information, the only benefit of which is that it allows Logitech to keep claiming (see many other threads and posts here) that they Logitech, have not let anybody down because they have never officially announced a firm release date - they may be happy with that defence but I (and I suspect many other people) certainly am not.
The whole situation is an utter shambles and continues to be made worse by Logitech apologists trying to pretend otherwise, IMHO.
and with that,
Goodnight :-)
First, kesey doesn't matter. He was quoting andyg, a Logitech employee. andyg's sig even says "Slim Devices Developer" or something like that.

Second, I have no idea whether the shake up will make things better or worse. It certainly made things worse in the short-term to the extent that people in the trenches spent too much of their time getting re-organized instead of testing, coding, and re-testing. But even if the re-org was a stroke of management genius, it wasn't going to finish the software in one month's time.

Third, someone did. See first point above. I agree that there should be something more official, especially emails to those who pre-ordered (see my earlier posts in this thread). But now you have a revised estimate about a release date, from a Logitech employee who knows what is going on. If that's not enough for you, contact the place where you ordered the Touch.

kdf
2009-12-15, 17:40
> kdf wrote:

> Right, as if a VP of Marketing or some such title actually knows more
> about when the software will be done than Andyg.

I think things are in a pretty good state myself, but it is also clear
that whatever has been specified as required by the management isn't there
yet and that is a major reason for the delay.

> The only way that the Marketing folks know that software is done is when
> the QA/QC folks tell them that it is done now. And the QA/QC folks don't
> make projections about the future.

That matches my thinking. There are certainly more steps from finished
code changes to the release than there used to be during more fly-by-night
days of slimserver.

Complaints will always be. If it's a non-leaked immediate release, recent
buyers are livid that they weren't warned. If there is no talk of
release, posters start complaining that the product line isn't active
enough. If devs are spending their time posting, people complain code
isn't moving fast enough, etc. In nearly all cases, there will be one or
two who will take it to extreme hyperbole.

As an interesting aside, I saw an article about the Boeing 787. You know,
it's over two years late and I bet that one bit of info could be used as
fodder for either side of the complaints (I'm kinda liking that they are
taking their time making sure the wings actually stay attached :)

-k

snarlydwarf
2009-12-15, 19:31
Complaints will always be. If it's a non-leaked immediate release, recent
buyers are livid that they weren't warned. If there is no talk of
release, posters start complaining that the product line isn't active
enough. If devs are spending their time posting, people complain code
isn't moving fast enough, etc. In nearly all cases, there will be one or
two who will take it to extreme hyperbole.

If it comes out late, people complain that development/qa is too slow.

If it comes out early, people complain that not enough development or qa was done.

kdf
2009-12-15, 20:02
On 2009-12-15, at 6:31 PM, snarlydwarf wrote:

>
> kdf;496046 Wrote:
>>
>> Complaints will always be. If it's a non-leaked immediate release,
>> recent
>> buyers are livid that they weren't warned. If there is no talk of
>> release, posters start complaining that the product line isn't active
>> enough. If devs are spending their time posting, people complain code
>> isn't moving fast enough, etc. In nearly all cases, there will be one
>> or
>> two who will take it to extreme hyperbole.
>
> If it comes out late, people complain that development/qa is too slow.
>
> If it comes out early, people complain that not enough development or
> qa was done.
>

heh. I tend to think of it as "until it comes out..." and "when it comes out..." respectively :)

-k

mherger
2009-12-15, 22:55
> as much as I like andy for telling us dates. It shouldn't be his task

That's a nice one... everybody's asking for information. If somebody is giving it, then it's either

- bad information
- wrong information
- wrong person to give the information

Get over it, lay back and enjoy the music.

--

Michael

verypsb
2009-12-16, 00:34
If that's not enough for you, contact the place where you ordered the Touch.

Which some people did and received an April date from their reseller, with an option to cancel, because when they pre-ordered neither the customer nor the reseller were expecting an April release date. (which has been told to the reseller by someone from Logitech)

DaveKen
2009-12-16, 03:07
Have you tried calling your retailer where you pre-ordered the product ?
That would be the logical place for Logitech to make official information available. This is just a community forum where some members of the Logitech team happens to be moderators and members in.

If you want a accurate date, you can't get a better one than from one of the lead developers who really knows what's left to do.

If you want an official date, you really need to contact the retailer that let you pre-order the product. I suppose this would be some Logitech sales person of some kind. This sales person would also be the logical place to forward your complaints to, but I suppose you have already done this ?

Hi Erland,
First, my order was placed DIRECTLY with Logitech - you should try contacting them as a customer and see what response you get - believe me it isn't a very enlightening experience. But that is missing the point - as a customer who has ordered a product and forwarded payment for it, is owed, at the very least, reliable information on it's delivery, and this information should be supplied automatically and not have to be begged for.
I have spent 50 years working in the manufacturing industry,in fairly high level positions, picking up ideas on how they function on the way. Basically, the management board devise the strategy, make someone responsible for making it happen and allocate the resources (financial, physical and personnel) to facilitate this.
The normal way this functions is that Developers get on with developing, not with stopping developing to respond to forum questions - no wonder everything is running later and later. The person responsible for executing the strategy creates a team with the aim of everything coming together at an agreed date. The Sales and Marketing guys then do their bit with the aim of getting the market poised to respond on the agreed date (possibly plus a contingency period). Apparently there is no problem with the hardware so the Production guys have done what they should. It's all about creating a team that works and what Logitech have created for the Touch is a disfunctional 'team' and a complete shambles.
It is not the job of a developer, no matter how senior or 'in the know', to provide product release dates. That is the job of an official 'public face' of the company, otherwise the company can continue to do exactly what Logitech are doing, namely hide behind the statement that they have not missed any launch date because they've never officially issued one.
The release of the Touch has been a complete and utter shambles and for anyone to try and protest otherwise is ridiculous, IMHO.

DaveKen
2009-12-16, 03:10
>
Get over it, lay back and enjoy the music.

Michael

That's exactly what I would like to do, if only I could get my Touch.

AudioFrog
2009-12-16, 04:27
People! The complaints here show just how materialistic and impatient our society is. It's just a music player. Do you not have an MP3 player or a CD player already? Is your life at a point where your biggest worry is when you can get your Touch? Do you not have other hobbies or interests? Do you think the Touch would be important to you if you lost your job tomorrow or if a family member became sick? Grow up and get your priorities straight. It's just a plastic box with a screen, nothing magical. <end of rant>

DaveKen
2009-12-16, 04:56
People! The complaints here show just how materialistic and impatient our society is. It's just a music player. Do you not have an MP3 player or a CD player already? Is your life at a point where your biggest worry is when you can get your Touch? Do you not have other hobbies or interests? Do you think the Touch would be important to you if you lost your job tomorrow or if a family member became sick? Grow up and get your priorities straight. It's just a plastic box with a screen, nothing magical. <end of rant>

Hi AudioFrog,
We're not discussing my problems here, several though there may be :-). If you want to do that, start another thread :-), and I'll do my best to contribute constructively - I may even benefit from it, who knows?

Logitech have a problem with the release of the Touch, that is an undeniable fact, to try to pretend otherwise is crazy, so let's get back on topic. IMHO it's doing neither Logitech or their customer base any favours by ignoring the problem. In the absence of reliable OFFICIAL information the rumour mongers will flourish and none of the rumours will be helpful to either. The answer is simple: - Logitech should come out and come clean, OFFICIALLY, and announce a release date that customers can make a buying decision on, even if that is Christmas 2010 or 2011. The fact that they can't and/or won't suggests that events are controlling them rather than the other way round.
Shambles I call it, shambles.
Bah humbug!!!
Disgruntled of Sheffield.

alfista
2009-12-16, 07:09
I have spent 50 years working in the manufacturing industry,in fairly high level positions, picking up ideas on how they function on the way. Basically, the management board devise the strategy, make someone responsible for making it happen and allocate the resources (financial, physical and personnel) to facilitate this.
The normal way this functions is that Developers get on with developing, not with stopping developing to respond to forum questions - no wonder everything is running later and later. The person responsible for executing the strategy creates a team with the aim of everything coming together at an agreed date. The Sales and Marketing guys then do their bit with the aim of getting the market poised to respond on the agreed date (possibly plus a contingency period).
A thorough description of a development procedure under which there never would have been a Slim Device to begin with.


It's all about creating a team that works and what Logitech have created for the Touch is a disfunctional 'team' and a complete shambles.
Maybe you're right, unlike you I don't have that kind of first hand information about the situation within Logitech.

aubuti
2009-12-16, 07:24
...otherwise the company can continue to do exactly what Logitech are doing, namely hide behind the statement that they have not missed any launch date because they've never officially issued one.
Show me one place where a Logitech employee has said that. Maybe it's out there, but I haven't seen it. I know that I have pointed the lack of date-certain for the release. But that's not as an employee (because I don't work for them), but as a consumer who is used to reading between the lines and not betting my happiness on a music player that is "expected in December."

DaveKen
2009-12-16, 07:46
Maybe you're right, unlike you I don't have that kind of first hand information about the situation within Logitech.

I give up !!! No one needs to have "first hand information" to reach the conclusion that the Touch 'team', if it can be called a team, is disfunctional - the fact is self evident. Please stop attacking me for stating an obvious truth, IMHO, it is not me that this thread is about. it is the delay in the launch of the Touch. Incidentally, if no one from Logitech has issued a launch date, then there is no delay and this whole thread is pointless.
Is the launch delayed or is it not, and why is it that no one from Logitech can OFFICIALLY be arsed to confirm what the current position is. Surely I, as a customer who has forwarded payment for a product, am entitled to an answer to my enquiries about likely delivery date??
It is not a matter of life or death, my life will, hopefully proceed unaffected by if and when my Touch is delivered. It IS a matter of a business treating it's customers with the respect that they deserve. Forget about me and my problems, get back on topic and comment on the lack of an OFFICIAL release date for the Touch. If you have no comments to make on THAT subject then say nothing.

alfista
2009-12-16, 08:20
I give up !!! No one needs to have "first hand information" to reach the conclusion that the Touch 'team', if it can be called a team, is disfunctional - the fact is self evident. Please stop attacking me for stating an obvious truth, IMHO, it is not me that this thread is about. it is the delay in the launch of the Touch.
Well, if you (like I) don't know what their objective is and don't know if they're on track or how the work progresses, then I don't know how you can determine whether they are dysfunctional or not.


Incidentally, if no one from Logitech has issued a launch date, then there is no delay and this whole thread is pointless.No official launch date that I'm aware of, so....


Is the launch delayed or is it not, and why is it that no one from Logitech can OFFICIALLY be arsed to confirm what the current position is. Surely I, as a customer who has forwarded payment for a product, am entitled to an answer to my enquiries about likely delivery date??I'd like to turn things around, rather than complaining about the delay it seems like the actual fault may have been to make it available for pre-order. I do agree that those who have ordered and paid should be notified about any changes in deliver plans that occur after placing the order.

snarlydwarf
2009-12-16, 08:24
It IS a matter of a business treating it's customers with the respect that they deserve. Forget about me and my problems, get back on topic and comment on the lack of an OFFICIAL release date for the Touch. If you have no comments to make on THAT subject then say nothing.

And you posting over and over about how unfair life is because you can not get the release date is helpful how.

Life is not fair.

WHY does Logitech have to give you an official release date? Should I demand movie companies tell me the release dates of movies in final production?

Would you rather have a release date and forced deadline where a product ships that isn't ready? Or would you want a release date of "when we feel it is stable enough"?

Seems to me that the -second- shows more respect to the customer, more of an attempt to meet the customers needs.

If I worked for Logitech, I would tell you the release date of the touch is December 19th, 2230, although that may be pushed up if it was ready sooner.

It would give the the date you think is meaningful, though for some reason I don't think you'd be satisified.

mlsstl
2009-12-16, 09:24
snarlydwarf wrote:
WHY does Logitech have to give you an official release date? Should I demand movie companies tell me the release dates of movies in final production?

I can't think of any movies where I bought a ticket months before it came out.

I think that's the one true mistake Logitech made. When they took pre-release orders for the product, they created an obligation for themselves to keep those people apprised. Even though in most cases they didn't charge credit cards immediately, it is important to some people to have a reasonable idea when a charge will hit their card.

I'm not a pre-order customer, but it seems pretty clear to me that Logitech hasn't done a very good job of keeping those people informed.

Everything else is just a public relations issue. There is always a danger in having a "buzz" about a product that fails to meet an anticipated schedule. And, to be honest, Logitech created that anticipated schedule themselves when they "expected" release this December.

It is just like poker. You think you have a pretty good hand and bet accordingly. And then sometimes you lose.

So I think it is pretty honest appraisal to state that things haven't gone the way Logitech originally planned. My opinion is they complicated the situation when they procrastinated in publicly acknowledging the delay. That just hasn't been handled well. There's been a post or two in these forums from a Logitech employee stating it is now a February 2010 release but you still don't see any info on their main web page for the Touch and - I may be wrong - it still doesn't sound like they've officially notified the individual pre-order buyers.

Yes, it is just a consumer product and it'll get here when it gets here, but I think it is safe to suggest this whole thing could have been handled better.

Now that the soap opera "As The World Turns" is going off the air, this has certainly made an interesting replacement. ;-)

snarlydwarf
2009-12-16, 09:36
I can't think of any movies where I bought a ticket months before it came out.

I've never purchased a ticket more than an hour in advance...



I think that's the one true mistake Logitech made. When they took pre-release orders for the product, they created an obligation for themselves to keep those people apprised. Even though in most cases they didn't charge credit cards immediately, it is important to some people to have a reasonable idea when a charge will hit their card.

They shouldn't have charges on any cards (they may pre-auth, but they're not allowed to charge until shipping time). This is standard Visa/MC rules...

As for keeping people notified, I would assume "your Touch is about to be shipped!" mail would go out when things are clear.



Yes, it is just a consumer product and it'll get here when it gets here, but I think it is safe to suggest this whole thing could have been handled better.


Lots of things could be handled better: complaining over and over about not getting any feedback, and then when the person Most Likely To Be Able to Estimate current status and how much more is needed states, to the best of his knowledge, when he expects to be able to say "go" on the product... people complain because it should come from some Official Logitech Product Release Coordination Manager or some such.... is just asinine.

Why on earth anyone would rather hear from some marketing weasel instead of a developer is beyond me. Why they would then dismiss totally the feedback they asked for because it wasn't from someone in Marketing, I don't know...



Now that the soap opera "As The World Turns" is going off the air, this has certainly made an interesting replacement. ;-)

More like The Sound and the Fury...

A tale told by..

Well, look up the rest of the citation.

A total waste of hot air. No wonder we have global warming.

snarlydwarf
2009-12-16, 09:43
I'd like to turn things around, rather than complaining about the delay it seems like the actual fault may have been to make it available for pre-order. I do agree that those who have ordered and paid should be notified about any changes in deliver plans that occur after placing the order.

If anyone has actually been charged and not received product they should talk to their bank.

(Pre-auth/reversed charges don't count. Even gas stations often probe your account with a preauth charge, banks should drop those quickly, though some like leaving them sitting around for 2 days, but that's the bank sucking..)

As for the Logitech Store site... well, that needs serious work in general. Missing products, broken links, broken HTML, "REPLACE THIS IMAGE" images, etc.... Alas, no one reading this forum can do much about that except complain to corporate. It's broken beyond pre-ordering. (Heck, they may not have even intended to make it pre-orderable... as I recalls someone here got an apology almost immediately after attempting to preorder that they had made a mistake and didn't mean that.)

That sites so broken, I don't even know where to place the blame (though, again, no one in Mt View has a thing to do with that mess..)

DaveWr
2009-12-16, 09:43
First customers who have pre-ordered and paid deserve some indications as to completion of the contractual arrangement. If the answer is "we don't know yet" that should be provided.

Second, any professionally run organization should have a managed schedule for a product design, test and release cycle. Currently with no comment, it looks as though we are entering the "it will be ready when its ready". Not a very comfortable/credible position.

In fairness to Logitech they will be losing significant sales, as they have effectively killed the SB3 but there is no Touch. I am sure they are focussed on resolving the situation.

mlsstl
2009-12-16, 09:49
Snarlydwarf wrote:
A total waste of hot air. No wonder we have global warming.

Pretty tough to take a middle-ground position around these parts. It seems to be either "Saint Slim" or the devil incarnate. ;-)

DaveWr
2009-12-16, 09:55
Well many in the forum still have to work out that Mt View is over, and will be closed soon. Mr Adams and his senior team no longer manage the business, so life is very different. Culture and processes are changing.

Once the Touch is released we might see some more friendly and stable views.

Dave

erland
2009-12-16, 10:41
Is the launch delayed or is it not, and why is it that no one from Logitech can OFFICIALLY be arsed to confirm what the current position is. Surely I, as a customer who has forwarded payment for a product, am entitled to an answer to my enquiries about likely delivery date??

I can agree with this, if I had pre-ordered the product I'd also like an answer when it was supposed to be released. If an earlier promised date changes I'd expect to get information about a new estimated date.

I don't think anyone from Logitech has given a 100% promise of a release date, but the press release contained information that most buyers would interpret as the Touch was going to be released in December this year.

However, I'm pretty sure you are not going to get an official answer from the marketing division on these forums. This is a community forum and even though announcements sometimes are posted here they are mostly posted as regular press releases or through information channels directly with the customer.

The first mistake, as already mentioned, was that the product was leaked earlier than intended. Due to this Logitech had to confirm it existed before they would have liked to do so. The second mistake was to actually allow pre-orders before they were 100% sure they would be able to reach the release date. The third mistake was that no one seems to have informed the customers that pre-ordered the product that they wouldn't get it at the date initially indicated.

Sure, one solution would be that we get someone we can blame for all these mistakes but would that really solve the problem ? Would it really make you any happier ? What you really want is that Logitech focus on actually deliver a working Touch to your doorstep as soon as possible, right ?

You have got direct information from a lead developer. I can say that my experience in the software business tells me that it's very rare that a product is released earlier compared to when a developer indicates it's going to be released. So even though this forum/developer isn't the optimal channel for information, I'm pretty sure you can base your decision on that the Touch won't be released before late January. It might be later but I'm pretty sure it won't be any earlier than that. Unless Logitech does some major mistakes I'm also pretty sure it will be released before summer 2010.

While you are waiting, Logitech still has the top streaming music players on the market available for purchase in Squeezebox Classic, Boom and Radio. I have them all and I'm very satisfied with them all. I'm also a beta tester of the Touch and I can say that it has huge potential to be a great success, so it's worth waiting for if you select to not get a Classic, Boom or Radio. I can also say that the experience is greatly enhanced when you have several of them, I didn't realize the advantage of getting access to the music in several rooms before I got my second one.

snarlydwarf
2009-12-16, 10:54
Snarlydwarf wrote:

Pretty tough to take a middle-ground position around these parts. It seems to be either "Saint Slim" or the devil incarnate. ;-)

I am quite able to say Logitech has made mistakes... Go back and look. I think accepting preorders was a mistake, but given the other issues on their site, I don't think it's a mistake of "bad planning" but a totally mismanaged product listing that doesn't have a complete listing of current products, accessories, etc, and even has broken SQL queries that return strange errors. The Logitech Store even renders poorly on Firefox. A wholly different level of incompetence at work there.

I'm just disgusted that some people think some magical "we design, build, test, and release" is easy to schedule. It's not. Shit happens, code complexities arise, timetables get behind.... This is nothing new nor specific to Logitech. It happens all the time. Hell, ask Microsoft about the Vista release timeline... or XP.... I wonder what sort of world these folks live in where things are so easy to predict.

Getting upset about it is pointless. Complaining that "the right person" didn't give the information wanted is pointless. If you don't like the ship date of "when it is ready", then cancel the preorder. It's not like you have to pay a restocking fee for unshipped and unbilled items.

If it's about "I sent $$$ off to someone and don't have my Touch!" then talk to whoever took your money or your bank. Taking money for items not yet shipped is almost always against Visa merchant rules.

(There are exceptions for pre-auth charges to verify the card is good, and probably exceptions for 'custom' items such as shirts with Your Logo Here... if Visa ever allows such a thing on mass produced items, I would be surprised.)

DaveKen
2009-12-16, 11:11
And you posting over and over about how unfair life is because you can not get the release date is helpful how.
And just where and when did I ever post that life is unfair?


WHY does Logitech have to give you an official release date? I can't believe that is a serious question. Any producer of any product needs to advise it's customer base when the product is going to be available. To use your movie analogy, imagine a West End preview being constantly put back because the movie isn't yet fit for release, and the press and public being repeatedly told that it will be ready when it's ready.
I can see why you chose your username - you seem to make a point of misunderstanding the legitimate complaint and getting upset with people who hold make such complaint - snarlydwarf indeed

aubuti
2009-12-16, 11:39
If you don't like the ship date of "when it is ready", then cancel the preorder. It's not like you have to pay a restocking fee for unshipped and unbilled items.
Exactly. Vote with your wallet. Going through with the purchase would be like condoning this utter shambles of product management and customer relations.

snarlydwarf
2009-12-16, 11:40
I can't believe that is a serious question. Any producer of any product needs to advise it's customer base when the product is going to be available.

they do? how far in advance? a week? a month? a year?

Some companies (including Slim until recently) do not announce products until they are ready to ship. Apple routinely does this (though they have leaks and rumors, for sure).



To use your movie analogy, imagine a West End preview being constantly put back because the movie isn't yet fit for release, and the press and public being repeatedly told that it will be ready when it's ready.
I can see why you chose your username - you seem to make a point of misunderstanding the legitimate complaint and getting upset with people who hold make such complaint - snarlydwarf indeed

Considering I am actually credited in a couple of movies, yes, movies are routinely delayed. They have months and sometimes -years- of delays. We have one here that has been in post production for months. Despite all the planning and location scheduling and shots... the detail work is very difficult to schedule. Can you say, "ok, this scene needs better audio, it will be perfect in an hour... or two... or three..." Setting such numbers is not possible with any sort of reliability.

This is why trailers often do not have anything more than "Coming Summer 2010"... because as much as they may want to release it for Memorial Day weekend, they realize that may not be doable for production reasons as well as for marketing reasons. (Movies are often delayed because "we want a good weekend and don't want to compete with certain other movies for opening weekend..")

There has not been a specific release date of the Touch ever announced. There was an expected delivery date in December 2009... but, then, lots of movies (since you like the movie example) have expected release dates that are not met. Then they have the Official Release Date that they -are- expected to live up to.

If Logitech had announced "this will ship on December 3rd!" you would have a point... but they didn't.

See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1054606/ if you believe movies are released on time.

Shit Happens. Heath Ledger dies. Things get delayed. Such is life.


Gotta love the obligatory ad hominem.

"And your name is stupid, too!"

Wooo that hurts so much, you have such a sharp wit, I am wounded to the core.

testmatch
2009-12-16, 11:43
if I had pre-ordered the product I'd also like an answer when it was supposed to be released. If an earlier promised date changes I'd expect to get information about a new estimated date.


As someone who has pre-ordered, I see that the information on my order is just as it was back in October. That is that I have an invoice and no anticipated (or promised) delivery date. That's fine by me as I don't see any promise has been broken. An Amazon-style "we're sorry your order still has no delivery date, but we will keep you informed" message would be good, but I can wait. I also keep looking at the comments to http://blog.logitech.com/2009/09/03/logitech-unveils-squeezebox-radio-and-squeezebox-touch/#comments which do mention a delay to the Touch. Hopefully the February Andy has mentioned is a worldwide release date, and the April one a dealer in Europe has mentioned is a mistake.

John

DaveKen
2009-12-16, 13:00
Considering I am actually credited in a couple of movies,
Really, how interesting, how relevant!



yes, movies are routinely delayed. They have months and sometimes -years- of delays. We have one here that has been in post production for months. Despite all the planning and location scheduling and shots... the detail work is very difficult to schedule. Can you say, "ok, this scene needs better audio, it will be perfect in an hour... or two... or three..." Setting such numbers is not possible with any sort of reliability.
As said earlier, you seem to make a point of deliberately misunderstanding what I post - sure you're not a politician? - they are also good at answering the question they wanted you to ask, rather than the one you actually asked. Nobody posted anything about movies being delayed - sure, shit happens in any business. What I posted concerned the 'launch' of the Premier, not the movie, but I wouldn't expect you to appreciate the difference, given your obvious mindset.



Gotta love the obligatory ad hominem.
"And your name is stupid, too!"
Wooo that hurts so much, you have such a sharp wit, I am wounded to the core.

Again you misunderstand and misquote me - no one posted that your name was 'stupid', I just suggested that it was appropriate. I didn't do it to wound you, you appear to be impervious to criticism of yourself, or Logitech, for that matter.
It's up to you whether you respond to this - I'll give you the last word on the subject so that you can believe that your point of view prevailed.
Good Night.

Phil Leigh
2009-12-16, 13:27
Really, how interesting, how relevant!



As said earlier, you seem to make a point of deliberately misunderstanding what I post - sure you're not a politician? - they are also good at answering the question they wanted you to ask, rather than the one you actually asked. Nobody posted anything about movies being delayed - sure, shit happens in any business. What I posted concerned the 'launch' of the Premier, not the movie, but I wouldn't expect you to appreciate the difference, given your obvious mindset.




Again you misunderstand and misquote me - no one posted that your name was 'stupid', I just suggested that it was appropriate. I didn't do it to wound you, you appear to be impervious to criticism of yourself, or Logitech, for that matter.
It's up to you whether you respond to this - I'll give you the last word on the subject so that you can believe that your point of view prevailed.
Good Night.

If only it was "goodnight" I wouldn't have to emit more carbon and waste more seconds of my life reading all of this drivel.

Products get delayed. Get over it. Would you rather have one that worked or not?

The hardware is (and has been) finished for many months now. The software is what the user will really experience and there are so many radical changes that the first release NEEDS to be good enough. There is going to be massive noise on these forums and on the support desks when the Touch is finally released, simply because it is a different beast to that which has gone before.

All this incessant whining and unfounded, ill-informed "opinion" is just leaves in the wind.

Let it go...

maggior
2009-12-16, 13:43
Is anybody else tired of seeing the overuse of the "thumbs-down" icon by DaveKen? I most certainly am.

I'm ignoring this thread from now on - I can't take it any more.

Stop feeding this obnoxious troll.

SilverRS8
2009-12-16, 13:49
Actually I'm tired of this thread.

We all like to have the touch as soon as possible but we also like it to be fully functional even more. Stop whining. There are much more important thing to worry about. Enjoy the (longer) journey towards the official release (that is also part of the joy).

Frank

dave77
2009-12-16, 16:43
I can agree with this, if I had pre-ordered the product I'd also like an answer when it was supposed to be released. If an earlier promised date changes I'd expect to get information about a new estimated date.

I don't think anyone from Logitech has given a 100% promise of a release date, but the press release contained information that most buyers would interpret as the Touch was going to be released in December this year.


That's the main reason I started this thread, never expected so much Logitech hatred! The pre-order page (before it was removed) did say December though, but to be honest, as long as they honour the pre-order price I paid I'll be happy getting it in Feb/March considering some retailers are taking orders for almost £300!