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Lewis Moon
2009-10-29, 07:40
Our home phone plays havoc with our SB3.....really anything wireless.
I was thinking about running an ethernet cable (~35 ft.) and was wondering if it was the solution or whether another can of worms would crack open. Also, I've heard that an ethernet connection isn't really any better sound quality-wise....izzat so? Finally, are some ethernet cables better than others?

pippin
2009-10-29, 08:01
Don't expect any problems. Ethernet cables (and switches) are pretty foolproof as long as you don't try to build them yourself.

And don't expect any changes in sound quality. The data sent over ethernet is the same as over WiFi, so no change there.

gorman
2009-10-29, 08:01
On a 10 metres run (11 yards) Ethernet CAT5e is plenty enough.

They honestly work flawlessly.

aubuti
2009-10-29, 08:02
The sound quality of ethernet is no better than wireless. They both use TCP/IP which has error correction protocols to make sure that the bits sent are the bits received, and in proper order. However, ethernet is generally more reliable than wifi, and much less susceptible to interference. Your phones can interfere with wifi, but they can't interfere with ethernet. Same for your neighbor's new router, your microwave oven, etc. You'll only get interference with ethernet if you run it next to electrical wires for long distances (several feet).

Some ethernet cables are made better than others, eg, better connectors, better jackets, etc. But the differences are nothing at all like the differences in quality -- and especially price -- that exist with audio cables. Any ethernet cable from a reputable supplier is the same as the next.

pfarrell
2009-10-29, 08:13
Lewis Moon wrote:
> Our home phone plays havoc with our SB3.....really anything wireless.
> I was thinking about running an ethernet cable (~35 ft.) and was
> wondering if it was the solution or whether another can of worms would
> crack open. Also, I've heard that an ethernet connection isn't really
> any better sound quality-wise....izzat so? Finally, are some ethernet
> cables better than others?

Er, For streaming music, any Ethernet wire is equivalent sound quality
wise. But I run physical ethernet cable to my Transporter specifically
because my microwave oven screws up the WiFi in my house. With the
ethernet cable, its always perfect.

Yes, some ethernet cables are "better" than others, but not in any way
that you will see in audio quality. Some can feed a lot more bits down
the line, but sending flac files uses under one megabit/second, so there
is no need for the high end cables that can send thousands of
megabits/second.

I will never use WiFi on my Transporter, its what I use to listen
carefully to music.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

pfarrell
2009-10-29, 08:16
aubuti wrote:
> The sound quality of ethernet is no better than wireless. They both use
> TCP/IP which has error correction protocols to make sure that the bits
> sent are the bits received, and in proper order. However, ethernet is
> generally more reliable than wifi, and much less susceptible to
> interference.

Er, not quite exactly.

In my house, the WiFi is so flakey that there are audible dropouts. The
stream breaks up due to errors and retransmissions to fix them. The
problem is that streaming media demands delivery or you can hear the
dropouts. Same with HD Video, only far more bandwidth is needed, so you
can get it more often.

If the packets are delivered on time, there is no sounds quality
difference between Cat5/5e/6 and WiFi. But if there are Wifi problems,
there are clear and audible differences.

I have found no audible differences between different Cat-X flavors and
would not expect any.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

SuperQ
2009-10-29, 09:16
Er, For streaming music, any Ethernet wire is equivalent sound quality
wise. But I run physical ethernet cable to my Transporter specifically
because my microwave oven screws up the WiFi in my house. With the
ethernet cable, its always perfect.[/url]

Time to get a new microwave. Yours is leaking RF badly. A function microwave shouldn't cause dropouts.

pfarrell
2009-10-29, 09:45
SuperQ wrote:
> Time to get a new microwave. Yours is leaking RF badly. A function
> microwave shouldn't cause dropouts.

yea, but I'm cheap


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

aubuti
2009-10-29, 10:34
If the packets are delivered on time, there is no sounds quality difference between Cat5/5e/6 and WiFi. But if there are Wifi problems, there are clear and audible differences.
Yes, of course you're right that if the wifi is bad enough to cause dropouts then you'll hear a difference. I thought the distinction between those macro data interruptions and sound quality was clear in my post, but apparently not.

Lewis Moon
2009-10-29, 11:57
Well, it looks like I'll be stringing ethernet cable through the ceiling.

Peter314
2009-10-29, 12:13
Or consider Homeplugs: http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/acatalog/faqs.html

sfraser
2009-10-29, 12:57
Well, it looks like I'll be stringing ethernet cable through the ceiling.

Not that it is a big issue, but another difference you will see in different ethernet cable is the outer cable coating. No functional or sound difference, just different fire ratings for different applications. Only reason I bring it up is that you mention you are fishing it in your ceiling. You "may" require a cable with a different fire rating than the standard 6' cable you buy a best buy etc.

Cheers,

JJZolx
2009-10-29, 13:28
Well, it looks like I'll be stringing ethernet cable through the ceiling.

Given the choice, wired is almost always more foolproof. Much easier to set up your Squeezeboes, too, since you don't have to enter a wifi password in one of the half dozen or so different Squeezebox interfaces for doing so.

Someone mentioned not 'making' your own ethernet cables... You don't want to make your own _patch_ cables. These are the short, flexible cables that you use to attach equipment to switches, hubs, and to wall jacks. It's difficult to do well, and the store-bought variety are cheap and available in any length you like.

Google running ethernet cabling, though. There's a lot of online info, and you'll find that you can easily do it yourself. Use solid core cable and punch the ends into wall jacks and/or patch panels at either end. Don't use patch cable (flexible, stranded core) in walls unless you leave the original RJ-45 plugs on either end, which generally makes for a sloppy install.

Lewis Moon
2009-10-29, 13:44
OK, second (third?) dumg question du jour: Do I run the cable to the router or to the CPU?

JJZolx
2009-10-29, 13:48
OK, second (third?) dumg question du jour: Do I run the cable to the router or to the CPU?

Router. But: What does your network look like? What equipment do you have, and where is it physically located in your home, and how is it all connected? The wireless router has something like 4 or 5 ethernet ports on it, correct?

pfarrell
2009-10-29, 13:57
Lewis Moon wrote:
> OK, second (third?) dumb question du jour: Do I run the cable to the
> router or to the CPU?

It depends.

The best way is to buy a "switch", they are cheap and you can get them
at BestBuy, Microcenter, etc. Get a four port switch to start.

Put the switch next to your router, wherever that is. Mine is in the
basement.

Connect the router to the switch, your computer to the switch, and your
SqueezeBoxes to the switch.

When you buy more computers or more SqueezeBoxes, you may need to get a
8 port switch. Or more. I'm up to 24 ports.

With this setup, you can just add stuff by plugging it into the switch.

You can even add a WiFi Access Point.

I perfer not using the cable company's router/modem as my only firewall
and wifi setup. I run from the router/modem to a real firewall, and then
to a switch, which has my WAP and wires to the rest of the house.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

cliveb
2009-10-30, 01:48
Google running ethernet cabling, though. There's a lot of online info, and you'll find that you can easily do it yourself. Use solid core cable and punch the ends into wall jacks and/or patch panels at either end.
If you decide to do this yourself, invest in a decent IDC punch-down tool. Don't try and use one of those plastic things that you can buy for pennies.

One other comment regarding ethernet switches. Be aware that it is possible to encounter chipset incompatibilities. I once spent ages trying to figure out why my Squeezebox Receiver wouldn't connect over ethernet. In the end I swapped out one switch for another brand, and the SBR immediately connected. The switch itself works fine with other devices, but just refused to talk to the SBR.

I've also seen a switch refuse to connect to a device it had previously worked with until it was power-cycled (presumably some stored data got corrupted and a reboot of the switch reset everything). But I don't want to imply switches are forever going wrong - we're talking about two weird experiences with cheap switches in about a decade of use. In general they are probably one of the most dependable bits of IT hardware around.

radish
2009-10-30, 07:13
Lewis Moon wrote:
> OK, second (third?) dumb question du jour: Do I run the cable to the
> router or to the CPU?

It depends.

The best way is to buy a "switch", they are cheap and you can get them
at BestBuy, Microcenter, etc. Get a four port switch to start.

Put the switch next to your router, wherever that is. Mine is in the
basement.

Of course most consumer routers have a switch built in, so there's no point buying an extra one unless you're out of ports on that...

kshaw
2009-11-01, 18:34
Category 5e or better will support 1 gigabit speeds but category 6 and 7 are supposed to be a little better at noise supression. If I were installing new cable, I would likely use CAT 6 or 7 instead of 5e. If you are making your own cable connections and intend to use 1 gig speeds, you should really test each cable with a GOOD cable tester that tests noise and not just continuity.

GeeJay
2009-11-01, 20:16
Or consider Homeplugs: http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/acatalog/faqs.html

If stringing cable is feasible, I'd advise going that route vs. homeplugs. Throughput is dependent on the wiring in your house. I found them to be less reliable than wireless in my case, at least for streaming music. They work fine for regular internet traffic.

cunobelinus@mac.com
2009-11-02, 03:47
Homeplug works fine for me - excellently, in fact - for everything,
and especially for streaming music The wiring in this place is truly
appalling, but there have been no problems, issues or even hitches. No
drop-outs, no break-ups - unlike my old wireless and even
(occasionally) my old ethernet bridging set-ups - and absolutely no
degrading of sound quality. This is streaming mainly AIFF, with some
ALAC, using 200Mb plugs including the top item on this page:

<http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/acatalog/Vesenet_HomePlugs.html>

I'd not now go back to wireless now unless I returned to running SC on
an untethered laptop, or was using an SB on long extension cable. Just
now, though, if it weren't for iPeng, I'd be switching off the
wireless network altogether.

On 2 Nov 2009, at 03:16, GeeJay wrote:

>
> Peter314;479222 Wrote:
>> Or consider Homeplugs: http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/acatalog/faqs.html
>
> If stringing cable is feasible, I'd advise going that route vs.
> homeplugs. Throughput is dependent on the wiring in your house. I
> found them to be less reliable than wireless in my case, at least for
> streaming music. They work fine for regular internet traffic.
>
>
> --
> GeeJay
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GeeJay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?
> userid=11388
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70586
>
>