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View Full Version : preset and favorite bugs w/server & 7.4.1



vintage veloce
2009-10-23, 21:17
Ok, So I have Squeezebox Radio and have setup www.mysqueezebox.com and the Squeezebox Server 7.4.1. The radio itself says its release 7.4.1 r7915. The hardware version is "5".
What I find is that when I switch from Internet Radio to podcasts from the server the favorites change and/or are erased. I actually suspect they just change based on whether the radio thinks it's connected to the Internet Radio (and then it uses squeezebox.com to save the favorites) or the SqueezeboxServer (and then it uses those favorites). Also switching between the Internet Radio stations and the podcasts from the server seems to delete all of the Preset button settings. The presets don't switch, they are deleted. How inconvenient.
I found an advanced setting on the web interface to the Server for squeezebox.com called "mysqueezebox.com Integration". Supposedly this would control synchronization between mysqueezebox.com and the local server. But the settings appear to have no effect on the favorites or presets.
So as far as I can tell, the presets and settings are broken if you use both Internet Radio and Squeezebox server.
Carl

PS:
I want to also note that there are just too many control panels for this device:
- the front of the actual radio
- my squeezebox.com
- my squeezebox.com remote control
- the squeezebox server control panel
- the squeezebox server web advanced settings control panel
- the squeezebox server web remote control
And determining what should be used to do what? Well, who knows? Is there a guide somewhere?

vintage veloce
2009-10-24, 21:06
lost the presets again... this is definitely busted...

toby10
2009-10-25, 04:54
MySqueezeBox Integration only syncs basic player settings, not Favorites. Syncing of Favorites between SBS and MySB is coming but is not currently supported. I suspect this might be part of your losing Podcasts and Favorites as your Radio is switching between SBS and MySB.

There certainly are many ways to control the SB players, but that's part of the flexibility of the SB system to suit many varying needs and different usage models. Better documentation of each type of control would be nice though.

What might help you, and as I've suggested to friends & family that I have turned onto the SB players, is to try and use one server (local SBS on your computer or MySB online) to control your player in the beginning to get a better feel for using the SB system. Preferably SBS as you have better and more control over the players and access to your local music. Just an idea. :)

vintage veloce
2009-10-25, 12:22
So, it the preset and favorite handling is an acknowledged bug?

On the idea of using a single server, seeing how screwed up the handling having both SBS and MySB is, I guess I have no choice! Bummer given that I bought the radio for Internet Radio and podcasts! Apparently this isn't really possible without breaking the presets and favotites. Just making the problem clear.

On your proposed work around... How do I force the unit to stick with MySB.com? That is my strong preference as the PC with the SBS on it isn'talways around or on. I cannot find any setting to force the radio to always use MySB... Must I delete the SBS server software from my PC?

Side note: (As Product Manager myself, I understand how a product can come out with these kinds of issues, especially when new. I'd suggest one of the problems with this radio at the moment is that it is marketed as an Internet Radio, but much more sophisticated functionality has been left in place (and some of that functionality is broken). Thus there is alot of opportunity for customer confusion. I foolishly thought I was buying an Internet radio... I didn't realize I had two servers to deal with! I can deal with this, but I suspect less network savvy customers are in for a bit of work or confusion.

radish
2009-10-25, 20:39
If all you want is internet radio then just don't run the server at all, and it'll happily sit on mysb.com.

toby10
2009-10-26, 04:04
Many SB customers use these players almost exclusively for Internet Radio usage, and the SB Radio is particularly geared for that purpose.
So much so that out of the box setup pretty much insists on connecting to MySB online, which is great for first time SB users with no local server but is then overly complicated for existing SB users running a local server.

As Radish suggests, for Internet Radio & Podcast usage, just leave it on MySB online.
You'll give up some UI and customization controls using MySB over SBS, but it also reduces the complexity for online content usage. :)

vintage veloce
2009-10-26, 12:41
Ok, So I will delete SBS from my PC and do a hard reset to the radio.
Maybe in a couple releases they will get the podcasts via Itunes working without bungling the presets.
Carl

lowfi
2009-10-26, 12:58
you can also control itů

using a mobile phone
using the official remote
using an universal remote
telepathy
tell somebody to turn the volume on your sb radio
etc

I leave mine on mySB all the time. My linuxserver shuts down every night at around 1.30 and i dont want the radio to send a wol packet to turn it on every morning.

vintage veloce
2009-10-27, 13:47
FOund I could use the Mediafly app to get the podcasts I like, and stick with mySB.com
So I deleted the SBS from my PC. And hard reset the Radio. I seem to have the funvctionality I wanted now!
However, the presets are still flakey. Not sure why, but they occasionally disappear. And then reappear after I select any internet radio station. Are these prestes actually running off mySB.com, and not locally on the radio? I could imagine that occasional wireless network glitches are causing the lost presets?
C

jmpage2
2009-11-02, 15:58
I think that you should file a bug report at bugs.slimserver.com and carefully document everything about this.

I have had this happen to me once too in which my presets were completely wiped from the cosmos, but I chalked it up in my case to loading a new Plugin on my server that might have caused some issues.

I have re-created the presets and if they vanish on their own again (I never connect to mysb.com) then I will file a bug report.

nkat
2009-11-05, 11:24
I use my Radio only on SB.com.
Occasionally the connection drops but then resumes - that's not the Radio's fault, more a router/net issue in my home, I think.
But, after a week or so's happy playing, the bloody thing has now taken to forgetting the presets. No particular cause or change by me that I can think of, apart from the above.
Rebooting it with the power button hold facility seems to have no effect - if it had the presets they don't leave, if it didn't they don't come back.

Any fix for this, learned contributors?

Oh, I see that this problem was also posted by others on this thread: "SB Radio is dropping station from hardware key" http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69363

Many thanks,

NK

Billiam43
2009-11-09, 07:22
I've had the radio just three days and everything was going well ... too well! Last night I turned the radio on and all of my presets were gone. Totally erased. I am not running the server and I'm using the radio strictly as an internet radio. I hadn't touched the radio since I used it the night before so absolutely nothing was changed.
How in the world can the presets just erase themselves? What kind of programming is this? I didn't pay full price for this radio to be a beta tester!
I have 7.4.1 r7915 running.

While I'm at it, another thing I don't like at all is the way snooze is handled. There's no way in a darkened room to navigate menus. My old clock radio just used multiple presses of "on" to cycle through snooze settings:
i.e ON ... 45 ... 30 ... 15 ... OFF ...

That seems to me to be the way to do it. No menu needed and the snooze function is there when you turn the radio on if you want it.

jmpage2
2009-11-09, 09:15
It sounds as though the radio will lose presets if network connectivity is interrupted under certain conditions.

Which is definitely a problem/bug. The radio should store presets locally and the condition of mysb.com or a local SB server should not affect them.

peterw
2009-11-09, 11:41
It sounds as though the radio will lose presets if network connectivity is interrupted under certain conditions.

Which is definitely a problem/bug. The radio should store presets locally and the condition of mysb.com or a local SB server should not affect them.

I think the opposite change is needed; I think Radio should be less intelligent. AFAICT, the preset logic is something like

Try to keep track of which preset buttons have been assigned

When a preset button is pressed briefly
If there's nothing assigned to that button, do nothing
Else
Turn Radio on
Tell the server (SBS or MySB) which button was pressed
SBS/MySB tells Radio what to tune, etc.
So if Radio forgets a preset has been assigned, it does nothing. If the problem you're seeing is due to Radio somehow forgetting which buttons have been assigned, then pushing even more logic to Radio won't help; you need to address the underlying cause of forgetfulness (and if you fixed that, the current model should work fine).

I think it would be safer to mimic the slim/dumb model of older gear, e.g.


Do NOT try to keep track of which preset buttons have been assigned

When a preset button is pressed briefly
Tell the server (SBS or MySB) which button was pressed
SBS/MySB tells Radio to turn on, what to tune, etc.

Right now there are two possible causes for forgotten presets: 1) SBS/MySB sync messes up what the server thinks the presets should be and 2) Radio forgets that a preset has been assigned. Making Radio dumber would take the second failure out of the picture. And it would result in simpler code -- a bunch of Radio/SqueezePlay code could disappear, and the SBS/MySB side would need only a single line of code added ("if (! $client->power() ) { $client->execute(['power','1']); }").

Next time this happens to you, try turning Radio "off" with a quick tap of the power button, and then press the preset. If Radio turns on, then the problem is in SBS/MySB. If Radio stays powered off, then somehow it has forgotten, and the bug is more likely in Radio's firmware (though not necessarily; it's possible that SBS/MySB could be giving it bad info somehow).

jmpage2
2009-11-09, 12:00
I think the opposite change is needed; I think Radio should be less intelligent. AFAICT, the preset logic is something like

Try to keep track of which preset buttons have been assigned

When a preset button is pressed briefly
If there's nothing assigned to that button, do nothing
Else
Turn Radio on
Tell the server (SBS or MySB) which button was pressed
SBS/MySB tells Radio what to tune, etc.
So if Radio forgets a preset has been assigned, it does nothing. If the problem you're seeing is due to Radio somehow forgetting which buttons have been assigned, then pushing even more logic to Radio won't help; you need to address the underlying cause of forgetfulness (and if you fixed that, the current model should work fine).

I think it would be safer to mimic the slim/dumb model of older gear, e.g.


Do NOT try to keep track of which preset buttons have been assigned

When a preset button is pressed briefly
Tell the server (SBS or MySB) which button was pressed
SBS/MySB tells Radio to turn on, what to tune, etc.

Right now there are two possible causes for forgotten presets: 1) SBS/MySB sync messes up what the server thinks the presets should be and 2) Radio forgets that a preset has been assigned. Making Radio dumber would take the second failure out of the picture. And it would result in simpler code -- a bunch of Radio/SqueezePlay code could disappear, and the SBS/MySB side would need only a single line of code added ("if (! $client->power() ) { $client->execute(['power','1']); }").

Next time this happens to you, try turning Radio "off" with a quick tap of the power button, and then press the preset. If Radio turns on, then the problem is in SBS/MySB. If Radio stays powered off, then somehow it has forgotten, and the bug is more likely in Radio's firmware (though not necessarily; it's possible that SBS/MySB could be giving it bad info somehow).

The radio still needs some kind of user interactive feedback to at least tell the user that it is aware of a button having been depressed. This can't sit around waiting several seconds or the user might get confused about whether the button push was recognized and the user ends up pushing a button again.

At a minimum the radio firmware needs to have an info balloon pop up on the client side that says "preset 1 selected" and then further interactions could be between the radio and the server for what information about that preset needs to be loaded, further info for the user (what the name of the playlist being loaded is, station information, etc).

Currently if I select a preset button for one of my playlists there is about a five second delay time before the radio does anything and during this time there is no feedback to the user at all; Which can lead the user to feeling that the radio is broken, is slow, or has failed them.

peterw
2009-11-09, 13:04
The radio still needs some kind of user interactive feedback to at least tell the user that it is aware of a button having been depressed.

Good point. For this, I think a popup with a big 1-6 number would suffice, don't you? SBS/MySB could then start playback or push a popup saying the preset was undefined.

jmpage2
2009-11-09, 17:55
Good point. For this, I think a popup with a big 1-6 number would suffice, don't you? SBS/MySB could then start playback or push a popup saying the preset was undefined.

I can see the use of large format numerals from the standpoint that there are plugins, etc, that will treat the buttons as something other than "presets". For example, mapping one of the buttons to cycle through sleep timer intervals on the device (I actually think that turning the main knob left would be perfect for this purpose, then turn the knob right to change the now playing screen).

However it is done, the radio should immediately communicate to the user that it knows a preset button has been selected, then followed by additional logic that tells the user that some activity is happening, or the name of the preset as stored server side, etc.

As it is now it is too slow and has too poor of a user interaction to be completely reliable. As mentioned earlier, I select a preset button for a playlist file and it is quite a few seconds before anything happens on screen or audibly.

I could even the introduction of a "hold music" stream that streams to the box before the actual audio starts playing. Sounds kinda retro, and most people probably would hate it! ;)

nkat
2009-11-14, 09:56
My Radio tells me when it's storing a preset. Pop-up balloon as suggested above.

I'm more worried about if forgetting them once programmed.

Any news out there? Thank you.

NK