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View Full Version : For those of you thinking about returning your Radio ...



gweempose
2009-10-13, 10:12
My suggestion is to be patient. Yes, the Radio is quite buggy at the moment. There is no denying it. Nevertheless, I have faith that Logitech will eventually fix all these issues. I remember when the controller first came out. That thing was riddled with bugs. There were times when I wanted to throw it as hard as I could at a brick wall. Fast forward to the present, and the controller has evolved into a pretty rock solid piece of hardware. I am confident that the same thing will ultimately happen with the Radio.

jmpage2
2009-10-13, 13:46
My suggestion is to be patient. Yes, the Radio is quite buggy at the moment. There is no denying it. Nevertheless, I have faith that Logitech will eventually fix all these issues. I remember when the controller first came out. That thing was riddled with bugs. There were times when I wanted to throw it as hard as I could at a brick wall. Fast forward to the present, and the controller has evolved into a pretty rock solid piece of hardware. I am confident that the same thing will ultimately happen with the Radio.

Companies should not be rewarded for rushing buggy products to the market. Purchasing such products and not promptly returning them encourages the wrong behavior.

All products have bugs, but they should not be expected or tolerated to a high degree in premium price products like the Squeezebox Radio. This thing costs almost as much as a PS3 for crying out loud.

unclemat
2009-10-13, 13:56
Companies should not be rewarded for rushing buggy products to the market. Purchasing such products and not promptly returning them encourages the wrong behavior.

All products have bugs, but they should not be expected or tolerated to a high degree in premium price products like the Squeezebox Radio. This thing costs almost as much as a PS3 for crying out loud.

I agree. I am still tethering on the verge of deciding to return it. Even if I can live with the bugs, this is to send the message to the Logitech Slimdevices division management. The management is doing injustice to the customers and also to the engineers. No engineer takes pride in releasing a crap product. It's usually inept and incompetent management that comes with unrealistic exceptions and does everything to screw up product development. I hate that and that needs to be punished.

snarlydwarf
2009-10-13, 14:06
hrrm.. my radio showed up here around 11am...

I was out of the building at a meeting, but it was sitting at my desk at 1pm when I got back.

It's sitting here nicely playing, and people have come buy to ogle it.

(Yes, I got tired enough of Softsqueeze, I replaced it with a radio at work.)

Slight annoyances: I have a very long email address I use for SN... I didn't like entering it. Oh, well.

Um, guess that is it.. oh, it took me a while to figure out the little dial was volume...

But wasn't hard to get it to connect to my home machine and stream from that. Just finding the networking settings and pointing the IP home.

My personal guess is that people having problems with the Radio are actually have problems with the server... (which can be, likewise, a ton of other things: such as AV/firewall software needing retraining because an executable name changed, etc...)

So far the radio works great for me.

unclemat
2009-10-13, 14:17
My personal guess is that people having problems with the Radio are actually have problems with the server... (which can be, likewise, a ton of other things: such as AV/firewall software needing retraining because an executable name changed, etc...)

So far the radio works great for me.

Your guess is off the wall, buddy. Server is working fine (yes, the new 7.4.0), so are three other players with it (SB2, SB3, Boom). It's just the Radio that's flaky.

snarlydwarf
2009-10-13, 14:32
Your guess is off the wall, buddy. Server is working fine (yes, the new 7.4.0), so are three other players with it (SB2, SB3, Boom). It's just the Radio that's flaky.

off the wall?

Um, okay, well, my radio still seems fine.

And i'm hardly running it on ideal conditions.

(Homemachine -> cablemodem -> comcast -> cablemodem at work -> wireless)

Still no dropouts, all seems fine except for training me that the Big Knob is not volume.

gfuchs
2009-10-13, 14:39
all seems fine except for training me that the Big Knob is not volume.

I know what you mean.

Mine works perfectly!

They will have to pry it loose from my cold dead hands to get it back.
(Ok a little over dramatic).

unclemat
2009-10-13, 14:40
It plays for me, too, but there is a plethora other UI bugs and/or missing features. Give it some time...

Phil Leigh
2009-10-13, 14:47
Your guess is off the wall, buddy. Server is working fine (yes, the new 7.4.0), so are three other players with it (SB2, SB3, Boom). It's just the Radio that's flaky.

Mine is fine. Buddy.

vw195
2009-10-13, 15:33
It has a few UI issues and bugs software wise that need to be addressed, but I replaced a reciva based internet radio with this one and its already much more irreplacable and less buggy than the reciva one was. It will probably cause me to get a boom if I find an excellent price for one.

unclemat
2009-10-13, 15:34
It has a few UI issues and bugs software wise that need to be addressed, but I replaced a reciva based internet radio with this one and its already much more irreplacable and less buggy than the reciva one was. It will probably cause me to get a boom if I find an excellent price for one.

Boom is hell of a fantastic device. I love it. Rock solid, great sound, super responsive interface, very classy looking.

gweempose
2009-10-13, 16:36
Companies should not be rewarded for rushing buggy products to the market. Purchasing such products and not promptly returning them encourages the wrong behavior.You certainly make a valid point. The Radio was clearly rushed to market before it was ready. That being said, I don't necessarily agree that we should boycott the product. Slim Devices has a great track record when it comes to supporting their products and going out of their way to make their customers happy. For proof, look no further than these forums. I can't think of many other companies that interact with their customers in such a positive way. Heck, even the founder of the company posts here on a regular basis.

Fortunately, in the days of internet connected devices, it's very easy for them to give us firmware updates and fix the bugs. I have been happy with every Squeezebox product I have ever purchased. That's why I was one of the first ones in line to get the new Radio. Do I wish it worked perfectly right out of the gate? Of course, but based on past experience, I'm not worried. That's why I started this thread. I wanted to let people who were new to the whole Squeezebox experience know that the kinks will be ironed out in time.

jdoering
2009-10-13, 23:39
The long-term support angle is critical. Of course I'd rather have a bug-free product from day one. But I'd much rather have a product with some bugs out the gate and a manufacturer that aggressively solves them AND ACTIVELY SUPPORTS the hardware long after it's the latest and greatest model compared to a lot of consumer electronics that never see a firmware update once they've been shipping over six months. I'm specifically thinking a lot of routers I had here. Slim seems to stay on top off all of the hardware they've released.

-Jeff

Ikabob
2009-10-14, 06:33
I have said and will say again that I am thoroughly enjoying all of my Squeezebox products. My recent purchase (SB Radio) is in the kitchen and is playing when I go down in the morning for my 5:30 coffee. The sound from all the products is very good and powerful. The Radio functions very well as far as I am concerned and I am finding that the bugs in 7.4 are becoming fixed more and more with each "nightly build". I am very impressed with the support we get on these forums and the techs who seem to monitor our concerns and work on a remedy as soon as possible in most cases. Many companies do not allow forums of this sort for fear of bad marketing strategy but Logitech encourages participation on the forums. This means to me that they DO want there customers to be 100% satisfied with their products and they are dedicated to that goal. I stick with a company that cares and , I believe , that this is a company that will strive to satisfy and bring the best products to its loyal customers. So, do not abandon those radios....they are awesome instruments of an endless source of music,sports,talk, et cetera.

I definitely appreciate the Logitech products. I have faith in Logitech.

jhonsberger@msn.com
2009-10-14, 08:00
I am very happy with my squeezebox radio and have not seen any bugs that
affect the operation of the radio.

I bought the primarily for portability inside and outside the house and
have not seen any issues to this point.I use ipeng to control the radio so
Im not fooling with the dials,knobs,etc on the radio itself.

gweempose
2009-10-14, 08:34
I am very happy with my Squeezebox radio and have not seen any bugs that affect the operation of the radio ... I use ipeng to control the radio, so I'm not fooling with the dials, knobs, etc. on the radio itself.At this point, it's definitely a much better user experience if you access the Radio via iPeng or a controller. Unfortunately, not everyone has this luxury.

unclemat
2009-10-14, 16:07
The long-term support angle is critical. Of course I'd rather have a bug-free product from day one. But I'd much rather have a product with some bugs out the gate and a manufacturer that aggressively solves them AND ACTIVELY SUPPORTS the hardware long after it's the latest and greatest model compared to a lot of consumer electronics that never see a firmware update once they've been shipping over six months. I'm specifically thinking a lot of routers I had here. Slim seems to stay on top off all of the hardware they've released.

-Jeff

That's great but not enough. The radio is a POS full of bugs, I am not dealing with it. I have enough with buggy software dealing all day long, when I want to listen to music dealing with crappy software is the last thing I want.

I am sending it back.

jmpage2
2009-10-19, 09:58
You certainly make a valid point. The Radio was clearly rushed to market before it was ready. That being said, I don't necessarily agree that we should boycott the product. Slim Devices has a great track record when it comes to supporting their products and going out of their way to make their customers happy. For proof, look no further than these forums. I can't think of many other companies that interact with their customers in such a positive way. Heck, even the founder of the company posts here on a regular basis.

Fortunately, in the days of internet connected devices, it's very easy for them to give us firmware updates and fix the bugs. I have been happy with every Squeezebox product I have ever purchased. That's why I was one of the first ones in line to get the new Radio. Do I wish it worked perfectly right out of the gate? Of course, but based on past experience, I'm not worried. That's why I started this thread. I wanted to let people who were new to the whole Squeezebox experience know that the kinks will be ironed out in time.

Fair enough. I have concerns about Squeezebox Radio based on some of the initial feedback about the quality of the hardware itself. I know that Sean and company used to obsess about providing rock solid hardware AND firmware/software for their product. I doubt Logitech has the same fanatical attention to detail.

I'll give another example... Harmony. Logitech bought Harmony and for a while all was good. Then they started to greatly cheapen the construction of the devices, to the point that I've literally had five different Harmony 880 remotes replaced during warranty due to the ultra cheap construction quality. Additionally the new product the Harmony 700, which has replaced the 880 is apparently a total piece of junk with cheap buttons, no charging cradle, etc.

I guess you could say I don't have warm fuzzy feelings about Logitech, they are harlots. I do have warm feelings about Slim Devices though, it's too bad that they got acquired by Logitech is all.

unclemat
2009-10-19, 10:21
I just received another Boom to replace the Radio. There are rumors about Boom being updated. I imagine it will get Radio treatment with the color LCD and possibly other cheapening in the process.

sebp
2009-10-19, 10:59
I imagine it will get Radio treatment with the color LCD and possibly other cheapening in the process.
Don't forget all the bugs it'll come with ;)

ccrome2
2009-10-19, 14:44
Guys,
For the most part, it's the same people that brought you the Boom, Classic, Duet, that brought you the Radio. We do obsess about this stuff, believe me. Or ask my wife -- or any of our wives. We spend obscene amounts of time trying to get things right. We're all very proud of the Radio, although there are some issues we still need to deal with.

Remember, the Squeezebox Classic (and thus Boom) had several years to mature to get to the point its at now.

We didn't go the cheap route on just about anything. Well, I guess button backlights got cut due to cost, but really, there's not much else (You wouldn't believe how much it costs to make backlit buttons). Audio didn't take *any* cut at all. Moving to a color LCD is *definitely* not a cost reducing measure. It's a feature increasing measure. Adding battery support is definitely not a cost reducing measure. Once you get a battery, you'll wonder how you got along without it.

There are certainly some enhancements that we should put in the software to make things easier and better, but the idea that we are cutting corners in the design process is simply wrong.

Please, give us a bit of a break, let us fix up the issues that you're worried about. We're worried about them too. We care.

-Caleb

Keymaster
2009-10-19, 14:54
Guys,
For the most part, it's the same people that brought you the Boom, Classic, Duet, that brought you the Radio. We do obsess about this stuff, believe me. Or ask my wife -- or any of our wives. We spend obscene amounts of time trying to get things right. We're all very proud of the Radio, although there are some issues we still need to deal with.

Remember, the Squeezebox Classic (and thus Boom) had several years to mature to get to the point its at now.

We didn't go the cheap route on just about anything. Well, I guess button backlights got cut due to cost, but really, there's not much else (You wouldn't believe how much it costs to make backlit buttons). Audio didn't take *any* cut at all. Moving to a color LCD is *definitely* not a cost reducing measure. It's a feature increasing measure. Adding battery support is definitely not a cost reducing measure. Once you get a battery, you'll wonder how you got along without it.

There are certainly some enhancements that we should put in the software to make things easier and better, but the idea that we are cutting corners in the design process is simply wrong.

Please, give us a bit of a break, let us fix up the issues that you're worried about. We're worried about them too. We care.

-Caleb

Amen :)

bluegaspode
2009-10-19, 15:30
Tell you what.

Since I own the radio, I don't like the Boom anymore :)
I really miss the LCD and volume knob already there ... backlight ok - bit difficult the first two night, but now I know where the important buttons are.

my wife surprised me today as she told me she listened today to the boom (second time) - controlling it via the controller as she couldn't get used to the booms menu.

So we both are LCD-addicted already !

So I can't wait to get the BOOM-LCD upgrade :)

gfrnd
2009-10-19, 16:29
got 2 radios up and running
they function fine
like the size, like the display
doesn't sound as good as the boom but a great size
these are keepers
and like all the squeeze stuff i expect some fits and starts to come but it keeps getting better
just bought a duet (brave me) and an hp whs to set up and take to my sister and her technophobic husband who loves to listen to music; i'll bring a radio along to tempt; i'm betting they will love the system

thanks to all for working so hard and delivering a GREAT system, radio included

gweempose
2009-10-19, 17:36
There are rumors about Boom being updated. I imagine it will get Radio treatment with the color LCD and possibly other cheapening in the process.To me, the only thing that feels cheaper about the Radio is the speaker grill. I much prefer the solid version on the Boom to the fabric version on the Radio.

gdpeck
2009-10-19, 18:06
I think from a hardware perspective the Radio is fantastic. I think there is a ton of attention to detail, and the sound quality is phenomenal for a device like this. Because of that, I probably won't return it.

From a software perspective I am very disappointed. The main reason for my disappointment is the (lack of) alarm functionality. I know that it is possible to make a fantastic computerized alarm clock. Check out the iPhone/iPod Touch Clock app if you don't believe me. It admirably performs the core function of an alarm clock (waking me up), but it also adds great value and flexibility in the way it wakes me up. I can set as many different alarms as I'd like, and have complete control and visibility over all of them. I also know that when I set an alarm on my iPod Touch, it will get loud enough to wake me up. In contrast, the SBRs alarms are:

1)too loud or too quiet (alarm volume doesn't work)
2)unpredictable due to the fact that when you set an alarm whilst connected to mysb.com, it doesn't always sync to squeezebox server. The reverse is also true.
3)unwieldy. you have to navigate several menus to set an alarm from the device. there is no indication of what time the next alarm will fire, until you are at least 3 menus deep.
4)not a very usable device for people who just want a beep to wake them up. BTW, there is an internal beeper for backup when network connectivity is lost. How about making that accessible as one of the sounds we can choose? If the alarm volume bug gets fixed, that would solve most of my problems.

Since having the Radio, I've had alarms not go off, alarms go off when they weren't supposed to, alarms go off so quietly that nobody woke up, alarms go off so loudly that we thought we were under attack, alarms that couldn't be turned off, and a few other issues as well.

The good news is that since the alarms are controlled by software, fixing these issues should be easy. The bad news is that they didn't get fixed through the beta process, so maybe it isn't a priority.

I think alarm clock functionality should have been a much higher priority. Maybe a cloud based alarm clock is an idea whose time hasn't come yet. An internal device that just works would have been nice, then add on the ability to play streamed music or talk afterwords.

I think a lot of existing squeezebox customers bought the radio as a bedside alarm clock, and listening device like I did. I think a lot of new squeezebox customers will freak out at how complicated logitech has made doing a simple thing like setting an alarm, like my wife did. I was hoping the Radio would increase WAF for squeezebox. It turns out to have done just the opposite. My wife won't touch it, and still uses the SB3 to listen to internet radio. Plus she's now setting the alarm on her phone as a backup to the SBR.

I know this is a bit of a rant. To summarize, the Squeezebox Radio has definitely earned a place in my home. Whether it has earned a place on my nightstand remains to be seen.

Thanks!
George

unclemat
2009-10-19, 19:02
Frankly, I don't mind hardware much. It sounded pretty good actually. The only cheap part are the buttons. Not just because of being non back-lit, but because of rubbery feel further exasperated by laggy response of certain functions. Also the volume knob felt less solid compared to the main dial.

I read that high res vacuum florescent displays aren't cheap, and given mass production of LCDs I thought they may be actually cheaper.

Sluggishness of the interface and amount of bugs made me sent it back.

I just received my second Boom to replace it and could not be happier. Thanks to Squeezebox folks for bringing such fantastic products to the market.

DiSNEYN
2009-10-20, 00:34
I read that high res vacuum florescent displays aren't cheap, and given mass production of LCDs I thought they may be actually cheaper.

Sluggishness of the interface and amount of bugs made me sent it back.


I've filed a bug about this annoying Sluggishness of the interface.

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14852

(The new beta 7.5 made it a little little bit smoother, but it is still much more sluggish/choppy compared to Booom/Classic, look at my little movie and you will understand..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHj1PoaznGA

I hope this is something that can be solved on the software side so that it isn't a hardware limitation of the new (sluggish?) LCD-Display.

The old Slimdevices was known to only use the best components to build thier products (that's way they always has been a little bit more expensive) i hope that this spirit of thinking still is in the house, even they now are sailing under the Logitech Brand/Flag.

Someone comment?

And don't missunderstand me, i LOVE Squuezebox products, but i don't want you to make "cheap" products with "cheap" components. I will pay a little extra to get great products with state of the art components!

/Hans

0xdeadbeef
2009-10-20, 01:17
Well, first let me say that I love my SqueezeBox 3 (now "Classic"). I look upon it as the single best investment I ever made regarding hifi and geek devices I bought in my lifetime. I'm so happy with it that I told all of my friends, colleagues and family about it and several of them now consider buying the Touch.

The outstanding functionality and software support over the years for the SB3 was the main reason for me to buy the radio although I was completely aware at this point that the software was a little buggy. This is also the main reason that I didn't return it: I'm pretty much convinced that the guys at Logitech will fix the software issues.

Then again, the software problems are much more serious than I originally assumed. There are several issues which affect the core functionality as an alarm clock. While they don't make the Radio unusable for that purpose, they are more than annoying and could easily scare customers away. I'm not even sure if I would call the current software a legitimate beta software. It's more like an alpha version where some features work, some work sometimes, some don't work at all. While I understand that it was a marketing decision to release the Radio in this immature state, it was really a bad decision that could hurt the reputation of the Squeezebox product family and also the sales of the upcoming Touch.

At least I can't seriously encourage anybody I know to buy the Touch when it comes out and I'll have to look for a different Xmas present for my sis. Considering the much more complex software of the Touch, it's at least very probable that it will be plagued by even more problems.