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dgruzew
2009-10-07, 10:41
Does anyone know if Squeezbox will direclty support Zune Pass ? Or if there are any hacks for it ?

radish
2009-10-07, 14:34
No, and as far as I know, no.

Sorry! I don't think MS has licensed ZunePass DRM to anyone yet (might be wrong about that though).

toby10
2009-10-07, 15:45
bill.gates@microsoft.com

pfarrell
2009-10-07, 16:28
toby10 wrote:
> bill.gates (AT) microsoft (DOT) com

He's retired. You'd have to do Balmer.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

radish
2009-10-07, 18:43
He's retired. You'd have to do Balmer.


*shudder*

dgruzew
2009-10-09, 11:54
I dont get it - it seems that zune drm is just WMA, it works on a Sansa , and Sonos also says Zune marketplace is supported , why not Squeeze box?

has anyone tried setting up a streaming channel from Zune Marketplace and subscribing to it on a squeezbox ?

andyg
2009-10-09, 11:57
We do not and probably never will support WMA DRM. DRM for purchased music is on the way out.

radish
2009-10-09, 12:37
I dont get it - it seems that zune drm is just WMA, it works on a Sansa , and Sonos also says Zune marketplace is supported , why not Squeeze box?

has anyone tried setting up a streaming channel from Zune Marketplace and subscribing to it on a squeezbox ?

Zune Marketplace and Zune Pass are different and use different systems. While Sonos/Sansa may be able to play WMA DRM, it certainly can't play Zune Pass material. Zune Pass works only on Zune hardware and software.

snarlydwarf
2009-10-09, 13:22
We do not and probably never will support WMA DRM. DRM for purchased music is on the way out.

(in related news, emusic is doing a splendid job getting the Columbia Records catalog online. Dylan (always introduced as "Columbia Recording Artist Bob Dylan" for some reason.. yes, he was here last night) for example seems to have almost his entire catalog available.)

Even Sony is letting lose on DRM.

tedfroop
2009-10-09, 21:01
Sony should finally get it. When their cd drm fiasco is so well documented it stands as a shining example of everything that is wrong with drm.

Microsoft - will never get it. Ever. Neither will people who keep buying - sorry renting music with restrictive DRM schemes that can be turned off when M$ considers them no longer profitable. (See "Plays for Sure")

Mnyb
2009-10-10, 01:34
A music file must be:

*DRM free
*Lossless
*Encoded in free open source format
*Available in the whole world (no company racism allowed ,my money is as good as yours).
*same price (apart from sales tax differences) everywhere.

I think very hard before giving money to shops not doing this.
They really only deserve to go the way of the dodo, if they don't full fill this very basic "good business practice".

It is 200ms to the sn server in us if i ping it :) it is so silly to compartmentalize the market for a music file.
Works for salad and carrots brought to the local market place, but not for digital files.

Any bets for a beer before or after 2050 if we still are alive .

Dear Zune sufferers (or plagued by other drm) Their are ways to obtain your music drm free you should explore .
You have probably obtained your files without fully realizing what consequences drm has for future us of your files (trancoding moving or backup of them), your are certainly entitled to get those same tracks by "other means"

diveatlas
2011-05-26, 09:33
Microsoft provides DRM free MP3s for all music you purchase through Zune Software.

The Zune Pass gives you unlimited downloads, with the caveat being that you need a subscription to play it. You can download it the 3 Zune devices, and I think 3 different PCs. You aren't buying songs with Zune Pass. You are basically subscribing to the rights to play songs, with some additional bonus features.

Zune Pass is actually very cool. But unfortunately, I serve up music to my whole house audio via the Slimserver. So that means I have to figure out another way to serve up PC stored Zune Pass music to my central audio system. Until then, I'll just have access to my purchased music.

I'm not sure what some of you expect from Microsoft. There is no way they could do what they do with ZunePass, without the DRM.

toby10
2011-05-27, 03:15
No, I think the Zune issue is well understood, and why it is well avoided. :)
People do not want to be fenced in by limiting their hardware choices to MS only hardware, where currently there is no multi-room streaming hardware platform.

With many different streaming hardware manufacturers out there, don't you find it a bit peculiar that not one offers Zune?
Or with the explosion of smart phones Zune is limited to only a very few Windows based phone OS's?
AVR/receiver manufacturers are including subscription services like Napster, Rhapsody, Pandora ..... yet no Zune.
There is a reason Zune is so limited to so few devices, look for the one common denominator. ;)

servies
2011-05-27, 04:45
Microsoft provides DRM free MP3s for all music you purchase through Zune Software.

The Zune Pass gives you unlimited downloads, with the caveat being that you need a subscription to play it. You can download it the 3 Zune devices, and I think 3 different PCs. You aren't buying songs with Zune Pass. You are basically subscribing to the rights to play songs, with some additional bonus features.

As stated above, we do understand the issue.
But tell me: what is 'unlimited downloads' if I can only download it to a limited amount of devices?
And b.t.w. you (the ordinary customer) never buy the music, you buy a license to play the songs...

toby10
2011-05-27, 09:07
I'd guess he means purchased music from the Zune store is DRM free.

diveatlas
2011-05-28, 08:03
I'd guess he means purchased music from the Zune store is DRM free.

Yes, that is what I mean. You can buy all the DRM free music you want.


With many different streaming hardware manufacturers out there, don't you find it a bit peculiar that not one offers Zune? AVR/receiver manufacturers are including subscription services like Napster, Rhapsody, Pandora ..... yet no Zune.
There is a reason Zune is so limited to so few devices, look for the one common denominator. ;)

I don't understand what you are suggesting. Why do you think hardware manufactuers are not integrating Zune Pass? I really don't know the answer. Also, album integrity is huge for me. I don't want to listen to singles. I want albums. Pandora is good for discovering, but I want to dig deeper than just 3 songs.

I have not looked at Napster or Rhapsody for a long time. After a quick review of their websites, I may need to take a closer look. Looks like they are virtually the same thing as Zune Pass.

Maybe I'm misreading the posts here, but how come no condemnation for Rhapsody and Napster? They seem to be doing the same thing as Zune Pass. And yet the perception I get from some commenters is only Microsoft is the devil.

How come Slimserver supports the other streaming services (doesn't it?) but not Zune Pass. Is it pricing, licensing issues, poor marketing, Microsoft being difficult to work with, Micro$oft doesn't want to do it, lack of a user base?

aubuti
2011-05-28, 08:21
How come Slimserver supports the other streaming services (doesn't it?) but not Zune Pass. Is it pricing, licensing issues, poor marketing, Microsoft being difficult to work with, Micro$oft doesn't want to do it, lack of a user base?
"Supporting" the other services means Logitech and the service provider (and the record companies) coming to a business agreement to extend the service to Squeezeboxes. These agreements also tend to be country-specific because of music licensing. Logitech has made agreements with several of the other services (Rhapsody, Napster, Spotify). Why not Microsoft? I'm not privy to the negotiations, but I expect it's some combination of the reasons you give.

toby10
2011-05-28, 10:11
Ok, let's try a different approach. :)

You can get Rhapsody, Napster, Pandora, etc... on numerous different devices and platforms from numerous different manufacturers. To name just a few off of the top of my head...

SqueezeBox, Sonos, Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, Denon, Apple, Roku, PopcornHour, Western Digital, Onkyo, Android, JVC, Toshiba, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Livio, Acoustic Reasearch, HP, Sangean, Rotel, Chumby, Grace, Boxee, Tivo, Vudu, D-Link, NetGear, Harmon Kardon, Kenwood, Teac, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, Vizio, Philips, Sharp, Tivoli, Livio, Bose, Olive, Sooloos, Amex Digital, Insignia, Integra, Sylvania, Memorex, Haier, RCA, and others...

As stated before, I find it very peculiar that out of all these many manufacturers that are obviously very open to music services yet not one offers Zune Pass.
I can only guess Microsoft is either difficult to deal with or is asking too much $$$ or simply won't license to anyone (which is my bet).

AFAIK, Zune Pass is solely available on your PC or Windows Phone or Xbox, and a very small handful of MP3 players, that's it. So my bet is that Microsoft simply has no interest in licensing to other products.
I'd be asking Zune why your Zune subscription is so limited to very few options in the market. It is this extreme limitation why many in here give Zune such poor marks (hence poor comments) and why many do not subscribe to Zune, it is simply far too limiting a service offered to only a very small number of Windows only devices. :)

Mnyb
2011-05-28, 10:28
Here in Sweden it's basically spotify or nothing any other service has a very marginal market share ...

Zune ??

I suppose a Spotify account can accomplish a lot, I own far to much music so I have not yet got any streaming service , I will eventually get spotify once they have fixed the volume normalization issue they have in libspotify for x86.

With spotify I can easilly satisfy visitors and guest :) they tend to find my music taste esoteric , and it takes time to download and scan in more party music...

steve781
2011-05-28, 20:14
I've used ZunePass for years and love it. I pay $12/month for unlimited music rentals and I get 10 free downloads (DRM free MP3s per month). It is companies like Apple that are ripping people off by charging >$1 per song. Given the quality of Zune players and WP7 phones, I don't mind being limited to one manufacturer.

Steve

toby10
2011-05-29, 01:15
I've used ZunePass for years and love it. I pay $12/month for unlimited music rentals and I get 10 free downloads (DRM free MP3s per month). It is companies like Apple that are ripping people off by charging >$1 per song. Given the quality of Zune players and WP7 phones, I don't mind being limited to one manufacturer.

Steve

Zune may be the very best music service on the planet, and may be the best value to boot, I dunno.
I do find it interesting that on most any forum related to streaming music (here, Sonos, Amazon, AVS, etc..) there are always a number of posts asking for Zune support on other systems.
Obviously many Zune users are looking for (but never finding) other platforms to enjoy their Zune subscription, as is quite evident in this very thread. ;)

Themoose76
2011-09-04, 05:52
Zune may be the very best music service on the planet, and may be the best value to boot, I dunno.
I do find it interesting that on most any forum related to streaming music (here, Sonos, Amazon, AVS, etc..) there are always a number of posts asking for Zune support on other systems.
Obviously many Zune users are looking for (but never finding) other platforms to enjoy their Zune subscription, as is quite evident in this very thread. ;)

I just have to correct your false statments regarding ZunePass.
Sonos support DRM ZunePass content. forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=8666
You can play ZunePass DRM on Android Phones. androidforums.com/droid-x-tips-tricks/130945-sync-zune-pass-songs-droid-x.html

Personaly I play ZunePass DRM content on my Sony Walkman X, and on my Pioneer reciver over DLNA + PC, XBOX and WindowsPhone.

On my Squeezeboxes, no luck. :(

toby10
2011-09-04, 09:57
I just have to correct your false statments regarding ZunePass.
Sonos support DRM ZunePass content. forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=8666
You can play ZunePass DRM on Android Phones. androidforums.com/droid-x-tips-tricks/130945-sync-zune-pass-songs-droid-x.html

Personaly I play ZunePass DRM content on my Sony Walkman X, and on my Pioneer reciver over DLNA + PC, XBOX and WindowsPhone.

On my Squeezeboxes, no luck. :(

I stand corrected on Sonos. I'm sure there are other, albeit limited choices out there as well.
Enjoy your DRM infected music wherever you eventually do find a supporting hardware/software solution to meet your needs. ;)

toby10
2011-09-04, 10:25
After actually reading your posted Zune+Sonos link, this sounds like one big *kludge* to me.

Here are some great quotes from your posted thread link regarding Sonos "supporting" Zune:
http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=8666

“However, I have found that you indeed do need to refresh the DRM rights on each Zune Pass subscription song after it expires every month by playing it in the Zune Software. A bit of a pain to play over 5000 tracks just to renew the license. Oh well.”

“my zune pass tracks would be under a separate menu from my non-drm tracks on the controller? So this means if I want to play a particular album, for example, I would need to remember whether it is a drm track or not before finding it in the controller?” (answer: YES)

“Unfortunately, Sonos doesn't support the .zpl playlists yet but I remain hopeful for it to be included in the next upgrade.”

“there's no power scroll and a couple other nits, but apparently that's a limitation on the MS side.”

“The tracks from the Zune Store have DRM on them and require a PC running Windows Media Player 11 to play the downloaded tracks.”

“Rhapsody and Napster offer streaming services as well as track purchasing options. The Zune Marketplace only provides the purchase option (including the Zune Pass).”

Themoose76
2011-09-04, 13:27
[QUOTE=toby10;655435]After actually reading your posted Zune+Sonos link, this sounds like one big *kludge* to me.
QUOTE]

I have not used Sonos with ZunePass so i don't know how *Kludge* it is.

But after reding a bit on the Sonos suport page, and other places, it seems it has been updated since the 2007/2008 post I linked to.

Regarding WMP11 have to run, seems like the same as having the SqueezeServer have to run. It acts like the server feeding the Sonos.
I am not sure it have to run all the time either. You only have to use it to set up the conection to the players.

Regarding the seperate menu for ZunePass and non ZunePass seems to work together now, if you set up WMP11 to include the non ZunePass music in its library.

Refreshing of the DRM rights can be done by a command, ang can probably be set up to run automaticly. :)

toby10
2011-09-05, 04:21
Yeah, that's a *kludge* (a mess, a lot of hassle to perform a simple task). ;)
It's still a *kludge* with Sonos' "updated" support.

I only commented on the link you provided which has not been updated since 2008. With no other reference I can only conclude it is the same now.

What is new/different/changed now I don't know. But reading the Zune issues from your posted link I can only conclude that:
- WMP is required and must be running (I wouldn't run WMP to save my life, but that's another topic)
- running two servers on the same computer is not smart and can be prone to introducing more issues (ports for example)
- needing WMP running knocks out playback options (can't use NAS as server nor the Touch's inbuilt server)
- can the correct WMP version even run on a Mac to access Zune DRM infection?
- can't use playlists
- no Zune streaming services

Some additional drawbacks:
- Zune is US only (greatly limits growth potential)
- Microsoft is ending Zune player sales (may have ended already, dunno)

DLNA from your AVR via WMP is another *kludge* unto itself, Zune or not. Far too many limitations.
Can DLNA players even be Synced?

And my favorite is "refreshing DRM rights". That's like playing Oliver Twist with your music. "Sir, may I please have another 30 days of my music, please?"

toby10
2011-09-05, 04:31
....
I am not sure it have to run all the time either. You only have to use it to set up the conection to the players.....

This in particular I'd insist on knowing before using any streaming product, Sonos or other, as this can be quite a limiting factor. If WMP must be running to play Zune music that is an issue.


....
Regarding WMP11 have to run, seems like the same as having the SqueezeServer have to run. It acts like the server feeding the Sonos.....

No, SBS and WMP are not even in the same league. ;)

I've never looked into it myself but obviously you have which is why you are here. ;)
Exactly which multi-room player/systems can use Zune?
What about networked AVR's which are adding more & more services every model year? I bring up this option as most of these connect to WMP so you may be able to use Zune music this way. Some may even specifically support Zune, I dunno. Might even be able use the AVR's multi-zone output to your other zones/listening areas. Again, I dunno, I'm just trying to help you find some sort of solution.
Or is it Sonos or nothing?

toby10
2011-09-05, 06:17
Here is the current Sonos instructions to play Zune music:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/sonos.cfg/php/enduser/popup_adp.php?p_faqid=554&p_created=1165438331&p_sid=eGXREpgk&p_lva=&p_li=&p_redirect=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnB fY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmc F9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD16dW5l

Seems like a different library to me.
" To view these tracks using your Sonos Controller, select Windows Media from the Music menu. To view these tracks using your Desktop Controller, click the Music Services tab and select Windows Media. "

Also makes no mention that WMP need not be running. Only says to launch WMP and enable sharing.

garym
2011-09-05, 06:24
Here is the current Sonos instructions to play Zune music:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/sonos.cfg/php/enduser/popup_adp.php?p_faqid=554&p_created=1165438331&p_sid=eGXREpgk&p_lva=&p_li=&p_redirect=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnB fY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmc F9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD16dW5l

Seems like a different library to me.
" To view these tracks using your Sonos Controller, select Windows Media from the Music menu. To view these tracks using your Desktop Controller, click the Music Services tab and select Windows Media. "

Also makes no mention that WMP need not be running. Only says to launch WMP and enable sharing.


based on my limited reading at the sonos forum, this is also the way one can exceed the 65,000 track limit. Another nail in the coffin (for me) for Sonos. I certainly don't want to be using WMP for my music database....

pdawg17
2011-09-29, 20:54
Now that Zune is going to an "all-streaming" model starting Oct 3rd I pray again for Squeezebox/Zune combo...I have a WP7 device so I would get rid of Spotify in a heartbeat for Zune if I could also use it on my SBT...

toby10
2011-09-30, 04:41
I'd suggest you contact both Microsoft/Zune and Logitech for your request.
I'd also suggest creating an enhancement request for Zune support at http://bugs.slimdevices.com , then get others to vote on it.
But I wouldn't hold my breath. ;)