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Ikabob
2009-10-02, 17:18
I have an SB3 in one room and the newly received SB Radio close in another room. I tried to sync them and was successful except that there is a very slight delay between them. The radio is afraction ahead. Is there a way to fine tune ?

iPhone
2009-10-02, 18:37
I have an SB3 in one room and the newly received SB Radio close in another room. I tried to sync them and was successful except that there is a very slight delay between them. The radio is afraction ahead. Is there a way to fine tune ?

Yes, to some extent. Before you get started, did you give it some time to get in sync? I have noticed that at the start of a new song the players all seem to be sync'd up.

In SBS goto Setting>Player> (Pick a Player)

In the sub menu to the right of the player name, drop all the way to the bottom and pick Synchronize, then use the panel controls to make adjustments.

Ikabob
2009-10-02, 19:26
Thanks....what is SBS again?

iPhone
2009-10-02, 19:32
Thanks....what is SBS again?

Sorry the new name for SqueezeCenter. You said you had a SB Radio so that means you have upgraded to SqueezeBoxServer (SBS) 7.4 on your PC or Server now, correct?

Go to the WebUI in SBS 7.4, lower right corner clock on Settings, then Player> (Pick a Player)

In the sub menu to the right of the player name, drop all the way to the bottom and pick Synchronize, then use the panel controls to make adjustments.

Ikabob
2009-10-03, 02:44
Yes, I upgraded to7.4. Thanks for your response. I am really enjoying this Squeeze stuff. Everything about it is very cool. Now I cannot wait till the Touch release. I know I am just using the basics so I am also looking forward to learning about some of the plugins.et cetera.

and, I appreciate these forums and all the people who help us .Thanks.

awy
2009-10-03, 07:12
It is interesting that you say it is slightly off. It should not be. How much do you mean?

Ikabob
2009-10-03, 10:17
I'd say less than a second . One is in the family room and the other the kitchen. So they are heard together.

SteveEast
2009-10-03, 10:28
What platform are you using for SqueezeBoxServer?

Steve.

awy
2009-10-03, 21:14
I'd say less than a second . One is in the family room and the other the kitchen. So they are heard together.

That does not sound like they are synced at all. It should be better than 30ms.

You could try enabling some logging: player.sync=debug to see what is happening.

Ikabob
2009-10-04, 01:32
Thanks. I think it is better now. Thanks for the tips.

Matt Wise
2009-10-04, 18:57
I spent most of last night and today debugging what-i-think is the same issue. I opened bug (https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14570) 14570 on this issue. In my case its been reproducible today, but on other days it seems just fine. The sync gets worse with higher-bitrate audio (flac) and becomes tolerable with low-bitrate audio (pandora).

Could you read through my bug and see if this is the same behavior you saw?

Ikabob
2009-10-04, 19:42
When I used it last all was fine. I will ex-periment with different stations and check it out. As of not though it syncs ok. Maybe since the baby boom was new it had to adjust or equilibrate. ????

SteveEast
2009-10-05, 06:00
When I used it last all was fine. I will ex-periment with different stations and check it out. As of not though it syncs ok. Maybe since the baby boom was new it had to adjust or equilibrate. ????

No burn-in on this gear :)

Steve.

Phil Leigh
2009-10-05, 06:46
yesterday I had a wireless boom+radio+wired Touch all synced and playing flac's as mp3 @320 and iPlayer.

The Radio and Boom were literally sitting next to each other and the sync was rock solid - less than 20ms of difference I'd say - you couldn't heard that slight ADT effect you get if things are a bit off.

I bet that idea of using 2 radios (or Booms!) for wide stereo would work...
Very impressive.

Matt Wise
2009-10-05, 07:58
Glad its working for you... I don't by any means think that this is a general issue with sync -- I suspect that there is some "state" that a Squeezeplay-based player can get into that suddenly causes problems. Keep testing though!

Ikabob
2009-10-05, 09:50
I think it is going to be fine. Thanks.

Matt Wise
2009-10-07, 16:54
I just noticed one thing that was causing some issues... i had crossfade ON for one player, and OFF for another. I meant to have them all off for troubleshooting, so perhaps that was doing some strange things.

Can you check your settings and make sure things like crossfade are either off or on?

Ikabob
2009-10-07, 21:10
I just noticed one thing that was causing some issues... i had crossfade ON for one player, and OFF for another. I meant to have them all off for troubleshooting, so perhaps that was doing some strange things.

Can you check your settings and make sure things like crossfade are either off or on?

Thanks Matt. The crossfade was off on both the SB3 and the Radio. I noticed that the sync was only off very slightly on radio station selections. Is there a way to fine tune sync?. On music services (Pandora) the sync was right-on. I do not consider this to be a big problem right now but if it can be fixed it would be nice.

Ikabob
2009-10-08, 08:22
On second thought Matt...maybe it is a problem because THE WIFE(!!!) had turned off the radio because it was the slight echoing was annoying to HER. That, alone, does make it a major prob.

However, she really does love the Squeezeboxes that we have now and she is looking forward to the Touch. We must keep her happy. Right? :-)

NikolajC
2009-10-16, 10:30
awy: I have sync issues too. Have opened a bug here:

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14626

Would love to hear your input.

Also had some logs and input here:

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14570

But that bug kinda changed direction.

Ikabob
2009-10-16, 16:43
I came home and noticed that my SB3 had a message indicating that it was "working on synchronizing" or something similar to that. I had never seen this message before. Also something unusual, the Radio had a message stating that there was a new download to install (I didn't know what that was all about and still don't) ....which I did. At first I did not think that the sync was fixed but as I am listening right now it sounds good! I am going to check it out again later and keep my fingers crossed that it holds. I appreciate very much that Logitech highly skilled and knowledgeable techs are working on the issues. Thanks you very much. I am really impressed and grateful. I love these Squeezes! Update: some stations are right on and some are slightly off, avoid 1/4 second... Some improvement.

Ikabob
2009-10-18, 07:44
Well,I thought that this had been corrected but today the sync is so far off that it is almost like unsynced. There was a day that there was message on the SB3 "waiting for sync" and that day things seemed to be getting better. But not today. I think this is a serious issue because the WIFE notices it . It is annoying because the kitchen and den are close by. Is it possible to fix it? I am looking forward to the Touch. Oh....forgot to mention that this is on MSB.com and occurs with radio stations primarily...as far as I can tell.I very rarely use SBS.

cornflakeguy
2009-10-18, 18:36
I'm watching this thread closely. I have a Boom, plan to buy a Touch for the Living Room, and plan to buy 3 Radio's for the rest of the House.

I want all the Units SOLELY for Sync. If Sync is not flawless I need to rethink this.

Ikabob
2009-10-19, 03:21
I am sure that Logitech will fix this. I think they are already working on it. Like you , many many customers count on syncing all their Squeezes together.

DigitalMitch
2009-10-19, 05:20
Conflakeguy,

read the following error cases carefully. I can't say that sync is flawless, but when it is working (99% of the time), I can't spot any timing difference between my players. The 1% is below ..

Ikabob, Matt,

I also see occasionally sync. issues, which are normally provoked by some other event and then leave one or more players off by between 0.5 and 2 seconds. The player then stays that way, even if stopped started, etc. but will re-sync perfectly when power-cycled (via mains for SB3,Boom and SBR, the Radio via press and hold standby).

Cross-fade is always set to 'none'.

For me, the problem was most noticeable on 7.3.3 and I suspect was aligned to the rebuffering problem (https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092) which was reduced by upgrading router firmware and almost eliminated by using Homeplugs instead of wi-fi.

With 7.4 production, I have mothablled an SBR (and iHome clock radio) and replaced with a Radio, which is currently running wireless (in anticipation of battery and mobility).

When I then use SqueezePlay Beta, I have problems connecting to my library (some days fine, others awful). Whilst Squeezeplay is trying to connect the existing sync'd streams stutter (as they do when a new player is added). Just tried to replicate using Squeezeplay to provoke but it wouldn't find server and sync was undamaged, will try again tomorrow.

I concur with Matt, in post #15, somehow a player (or more than one) gets into a state where it is out of sync and is only reset by power-cycling.

Mitch

Ikabob
2009-10-19, 06:14
Thank you DigitalMitch. I definitely agree that this is not a problem with every radio station but ,yes,some are off by .5-2 seconds and so it IS becoming less of aproblem. If ,as you advised,it can be corrected on those instances where it is aproblem by simply power-cycling (can you define p-cling?)then I am satisfied.thank you very much for this explanation.

toby10
2009-10-19, 08:40
Ikabob: Try streaming the same station(s) you are having sync issues with on MySB using SBS, see if the sync is maintained tighter.

My guess is you are experiencing "drift" on MySB. Unless they changed how players function when synced on MySB, here is the difference between SBS and MySB sync when playing a radio stream:

SBS: server gets a single stream, shares it with all synced players, better sync
MySB: each player connected to MySB gets it's own unique stream even when "synced", not so great sync (i.e. drift)

Put another way: If you are streaming a 128k radio stream to four "synced" players:
SBS = 1x128k stream via your ISP, shares this single stream with four players, ISP usage = 128k
MySB = 4x128k = 512k, each player getting it's own unique stream, ISP usage = 512k

Ikabob
2009-10-19, 09:27
Very good explanation Toby. Thank you very much. I will try syncing with sbs as you suggested and compare. I can live with the slight discrepancies on msb.com. I will also try the power-cycling maneuver too(once I findout what exactly that is). Thanks.

aubuti
2009-10-19, 13:35
I will also try the power-cycling maneuver too(once I findout what exactly that is). Thanks.
Power cycling is basically turning it off, waiting for a little while (depends on device, but 30 seconds is more than enough), and turning it back on. As DigitalMitch said "(via mains for SB3,Boom and SBR, the Radio via press and hold standby)", meaning you should physically unplug an SB3, Boom, or SB Receiver, for the simple reason that they don't have on/off switches.

On the SB Radio, make sure you hold the on/off/standby button (lower right) long enough that it completely powers off. Or simply unplug that just like you do the rest of the gear.

Keymaster
2009-10-19, 13:41
Had a sync issue over the weekend between Radio and TP playing 24/96 FLAC (but I assumed it might have been related to TP playing 24/96 native and Radio having to engage SOX)

DigitalMitch
2009-10-20, 01:24
thanks aubuti - beat me to expanding 'power cycling'. Worth noting that 'standby' mode does NOT have the same impac to sync.

general - my sync. issues have been whilst streaming FLAC from SBS to multiple players. I haven't in the past tended to listen to many radio stations but have recently started listening more to last.fm and BBC radio 6. Haven't had any sync. occurences when listening to either.

Mitch

TimM
2009-10-20, 04:58
thanks aubuti - beat me to expanding 'power cycling'. Worth noting that 'standby' mode does NOT have the same impac to sync.

general - my sync. issues have been whilst streaming FLAC from SBS to multiple players. I haven't in the past tended to listen to many radio stations but have recently started listening more to last.fm and BBC radio 6. Haven't had any sync. occurences when listening to either.

Mitch

Pretty much the same here except replacing apple lossless for FLAC. I have 'cured' it for the time being as I can run the radio wired, but that's not really what we bought it for.

Pretty much like the Boom, and prior SB2/3's I would hope that 7.41 etc will sort this out before the battery is available in the UK.

(Vista 64b/ 2 x SB2, 1 x SB3, 1 x Boom, 1 x Radio)

Ikabob
2009-10-21, 03:50
The sync between my SB3 and SB Radio seems to be right on sync! It is nice knowing that the highly skilled Logitech technologists are working to perfect and upgrade the products. Thank you, the Squeezebox system is awesome! I am looking forward to the Touch and to the battery for the Radio.

Ikabob
2009-10-23, 03:59
The sync between my SB3 and SB Radio seems to be right on sync! It is nice knowing that the highly skilled Logitech technologists are working to perfect and upgrade the products. Thank you, the Squeezebox system is awesome! I am looking forward to the Touch and to the battery for the Radio.

Well today , for some reason??, the sync is way off. A power- cycle doesn't even help. I can' t understand why one day it is good and then not. I'm on msb.com alone. Can sync be perfected? I'm using 7.4.2 /r latest nightly update. Anysuggestions?

Mnyb
2009-10-23, 04:24
Well today , for some reason??, the sync is way off. A power- cycle doesn't even help. I can' t understand why one day it is good and then not. I'm on msb.com alone. Can sync be perfected? I'm using 7.4.2 /r latest nightly update. Anysuggestions?

You post is a little contradictory ?

If your connected directly to msb.com sync can not be expected to work .

If you are listening trough your server sync should work .
Does it work with local files ? try that .
It should work with radio streams to, when you are listening to "radio" trough your local server AND syncs then the server is in reality only using one stream from the web station and proxies it to your multiple players.
But to rule out the server/network stuff try with local files first.

If you are listening directly trough msb.com every sb gets it's own stream even if they are on the same "radio channel" and as the players are controlled from afar all things can and will happen regarding sync.

Ikabob
2009-10-23, 04:32
Ok. Thanks. I thought that sync would be able to work with msb.com. I rarely listen to radio stations with my pc on. So rarely try sbs. So. Now I know not to expect sync to be very consistant with msb.com.

Phil Leigh
2009-10-23, 04:48
Ok. Thanks. I thought that sync would be able to work with msb.com. I rarely listen to radio stations with my pc on. So rarely try sbs. So. Now I know not to expect sync to be very consistant with msb.com.

without a local server, sync will vary as the performance of the Internet varies... which is constantly.

awy
2009-10-23, 05:48
There is a bit of misinformation here.

Sync does work with mySB.com but only for music services, such as Pandora, Rhapsody, Napster, etc. That is, services that deliver discrete tracks, one after another, rather than a continuous stream.

For radio stations it will not work usefully. It will actually keep them exactly the same time apart :-). This is because each SB connects independently to the stream source, but it turns out not to be at exactly the same time. mySB has no way of working out what the difference in time might be.

Sometimes a useful technique can be to keep restarting the station until the two players start up sufficiently in sync.

It is also the case that sync can be not quite so tight with mySB but that depends upon many factors. Often it is as good as a local SbS (except for radio).

Ikabob
2009-10-23, 07:58
Thank you for this valuable information. Now I will know what to expect. I had thought that since it worked real well a couple days ago that the sync was controllable on MSB.com. The problem I have with your suggestion of turning one station off and then on is that it moves down the playlist to a different station after I turn the off station to on. Thanks again.