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rjsmyth
2009-09-30, 07:09
that there seems to be no manual (quite a task I admit) for all this equipment we have bought. I have a Duet and two Booms and to be honest if I did not earn my living in IT I would be out with the washing trying to get these working together properly. I keep discovering little gems of info here on these forums which contribute to me making a decent system out of all of the units. It is a remarkable sytem that probably does too much for it's own good. No wonder Currys Digital don't sell them!!

cbemoore
2009-09-30, 07:12
http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/support/documentation/squeezebox-duet-user-guide.html

http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/support/documentation/squeezebox-boom-user-guide.html

mzpro5
2009-09-30, 07:14
I have to agree. I've had a number of friends that like my SB and interface with the SBC but I wouldn't recommend to them as they are not really tech savvy and I would be getting all kinds of call for help.

Seems that if you want a successful product that would really sell things would be simpler and there would be a comprehensive manual.

Of course when things keep changing all the time it might be difficult to have a relevant manual.

mzpro5
2009-09-30, 07:28
http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/support/documentation/squeezebox-duet-user-guide.html

http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/support/documentation/squeezebox-boom-user-guide.html

Ah yes but with the new upgrade some of the info is now out dated including the guide to the buttons on the controller which is now somewhat irrelevant.

If the product keeps changing that manual is useless.

snarlydwarf
2009-09-30, 07:37
Of course when things keep changing all the time it might be difficult to have a relevant manual.

Which is why I rarely buy any tech related books.

HTML or PDF manuals make much more sense.

mzpro5
2009-09-30, 07:46
Which is why I rarely buy any tech related books.

HTML or PDF manuals make much more sense.

I agree IF the product developer keeps the online manual up to date. Have not seen that happening in alot of cases including here.

rjsmyth
2009-09-30, 07:54
It is the little nuances that make all the difference and a lot of them are just not documented. I have just discovered that my personal nirvana - moving songs from within the "Now Playing" playlist - is now possible on the controller - excellent for parties. I could never find a way of doing this before (7.3.3)- maybe that akward beta "party mode" but I was always deleting my active playlist by mistake - if someone now comes along here and says you should have done this and done that - then I rest my case for a manual.

I have also discovered that the default skin for Squeezecentre is not useless for parties after all as it has some extra buttons and in 7.4 I can drag songs up and down my active playlist - something I had always liked in Itunes. Of course I look again on these forums and discover the extra buttons on the Default Skin will disappear if I log in with another PC and do not set them to on again which then adds a cookie to the machine I am using - complicated eh! - real easy end consumer stuff.

I have to endure the wrath of her indoors who says "another piece of equipment you have bought that I can't operate" as she struggles to get Magic radio to work on one of the Booms after I have been using Squeezenetwork - even though I have set up presets on the front of the Boom

Even the simplest of things like showing TITLE - ARTIST on the Booms is easiest set up on the Server itself and has to be done for each unit. Same applies to the "switch off group" buried away in the Synchronisation settings.

Keep it a bit more simple - it's a music player - I don't want Facebook or to look at my Flickr pictures on a tiny screen just because it's clever. Why not create a Lite mode without all the extra functionality - maybe so even my partner could pick up the controller and make something happen. Have an Advanced mode for all us techies. I think a lot of people go for the uber expensive Sonus system for this very reason.

rjsmyth
2009-09-30, 08:08
http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/support/documentation/squeezebox-duet-user-guide.html

http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/support/documentation/squeezebox-boom-user-guide.html


It is out of date. Especially as of 7.4 I had to hunt high and low through Wikis, posts and messages to the almighty to find out what the new features are (some excellent). Joe Consumer is just not going to bother with that kind of dedication.

ADVin
2009-10-03, 06:06
This is my number one complaint with the entire system. Yes, its easy to do simple things, but to do much more complicated, I have to spend a fair amount of time wading through menus, trying things, reading forums & wikis. Maybe 8 hours of some one's time (very familiar with the hardware and software) would be an excellent investment.

And yes, PDF is the only solution.

kidstypike
2009-10-03, 06:50
I don't want Facebook or to look at my Flickr pictures on a tiny screen just because it's clever.

+1
Well said.

Brian Ritchie
2009-10-03, 13:13
It is the little nuances that make all the difference and a lot of them are just not documented. I have just discovered that my personal nirvana - moving songs from within the "Now Playing" playlist - is now possible on the controller

Oh, what a tease! I've just spent ages rummaging in the wiki trying to find out what this means, with no luck. So how DO you move songs within the Now Playing playlist in 7.4? Indeed, last time I hit the Go button in the playlist, instead of being taken to info about the song (as happened in 7.3 and earlier), it started playing it instead.

-- Brian

funkstar
2009-10-03, 14:24
This is my number one complaint with the entire system. Yes, its easy to do simple things, but to do much more complicated, I have to spend a fair amount of time wading through menus, trying things, reading forums & wikis. Maybe 8 hours of some one's time (very familiar with the hardware and software) would be an excellent investment.

And yes, PDF is the only solution.
if it only took 8 hours, it would be done on regular intervals. From putting together manuals for software projects in the past, I can guarantee it would take many many times that. Closer to 80, but thats still probably an understatement.

Brian Ritchie
2009-10-03, 17:05
Oh, what a tease! I've just spent ages rummaging in the wiki trying to find out what this means, with no luck. So how DO you move songs within the Now Playing playlist in 7.4? Indeed, last time I hit the Go button in the playlist, instead of being taken to info about the song (as happened in 7.3 and earlier), it started playing it instead.

Aha: this thread (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68568) tells me that the magic incantation for Song Info (well, the context menu that includes it) is to press-and-hold the centre button (what I called Go above, but is probably better known as Enter). There's also a Play Next option, which I suppose counts as a way to move tracks within a playlist, but not quite as versatile as I was hoping!

-- Brian

rjsmyth
2009-10-05, 07:49
Oh, what a tease! I've just spent ages rummaging in the wiki trying to find out what this means, with no luck. So how DO you move songs within the Now Playing playlist in 7.4? Indeed, last time I hit the Go button in the playlist, instead of being taken to info about the song (as happened in 7.3 and earlier), it started playing it instead.

-- Brian

Go to Now Playing then press the Centre Button to go the Now Playing Playlist then scroll to the song you wish to play next - briefly press the + button and select Play Next from the resultant menu. Been waiting forever for this simple option - think this completely replaces the "Party Mode"

jposner
2009-10-05, 14:28
Totally agree with the posters.

#1 - ensure documentation available and up to date with every release. It's not acceptable to not have comprehensive documentation for ALL the products (including the server) in one place, that is up to date for all released versions.

#2 - ensure the system configuration/upgrade process enables you to export ALL settings and re-import them later. EVERY time I upgrade its painful, buggy and I inevitably end up trashing it all (SBS, SBC, SBR) and re-installing/resetting. What a pain! wastes hours, if not days.

#3 - ensure the products do the SIMPLE things, like "work", and upgrade smoothly. Forget all about the fancy schmancy plugins that people use once, think "ooh that's great", and then never use again. Logitech are losing customers because it needs a major in computer science and networking to get working / fix problems.

GeeJay
2009-10-10, 21:56
Keep it a bit more simple - it's a music player - I don't want Facebook or to look at my Flickr pictures on a tiny screen just because it's clever.

+2

I'm pretty ticked off that development time couldn't be spent on fully realizing "Party Mode" (or some other method to prevent random acts of destruction on my active playlists) so that we could get Facebook on a MUSIC PLAYER!

egd
2009-10-10, 23:02
+2

I'm pretty ticked off that development time couldn't be spent on fully realizing "Party Mode" (or some other method to prevent random acts of destruction on my active playlists) so that we could get Facebook on a MUSIC PLAYER!

It's pretty clear to me that the Squeezebox product range is being moved in the direction of mass-market adoption, hence the addition of crap like "Facebook on a MUSIC PLAYER" whilst many users interested solely in the music feel development effort could be better spent elsewhere. That's not going to happen though because it's not going to help with mass-market adoption. I see an inevitable fork in the road ahead...

jposner
2009-10-11, 01:44
... with more and more products in the range (a good thing) - it means that the server needs to be ROCK SOLID, and upgrade / installation needs to be 100% FOOL-PROOF. If these 2 things are not, it will never reach mass-market adoption. The facebook thing is just the marketing men saying: "we need to get on the latest bandwagon" - maybe a necessary distraction but not at the expense of the CORE FUNCTIONALITY.

Why is iTunes the defacto music download site ? because it ridiculously easy for even a child or pensioner to use. It NEVER involves you in the technicalities, rarely goes wrong. Sure its not the best or most configurable, but it works. Logitech let that be a lesson.

ok stepping off my soap-box now ...

funkstar
2009-10-11, 06:34
upgrade / installation needs to be 100% FOOL-PROOF. If these 2 things are not, it will never reach mass-market adoption.
I agree, just like how Windows is 100% fool-proof to install and upgrade...

oh wait....

jposner
2009-10-11, 06:54
....but windows is an operating system, thousands of times more complex than a few hundred lines of perl, installed into half a dozen directories. I would wager that the percentage of people with SB who have problems with install/upgrades vastly exceeds the percentage of windows users who do.

Am not wishing to get into an argument on this - doesn't matter what the product is, commercial software should be tested so that 99.9% of cases are covered. SB clearly isn't. This cannot be argued. There are lots of different recurrent problems here on the forum that MANY people are having. QED.

funkstar
2009-10-11, 07:03
I was just pointing out that no software can be 100% fool proof, there have been numerous instances when an iTunes update has screwed up libraries for people for example.