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jarome
2009-09-29, 15:14
With 7.4, you have managed to make it totally unintuitive to do anything with my squeezebox.
1) Why is radioio now under MyApps instead of Internet Radio? How do I move it back?
2) XM Radio which finally was working is now broken again.
3) Changing the name os the server for the third time to something really long is bad. What was wrong with SqueezeServer? Now I must type
rcsqueezeboxserver start
on my linux machine. Too hard to type! And too hard to remember.

Why don't you have a page that explains the logic for these updates, what has changed, and how to use this again?

Jim Rome

pippin
2009-09-29, 15:55
Squeezebox is the trademark. SqueezeServer is not.

jarome
2009-09-29, 16:13
Squeezebox is the trademark. SqueezeServer is not.
The previous incarnation was squeezecenter. The trademark did not matter then.

pippin
2009-09-29, 16:26
The previous incarnation was squeezecenter. The trademark did not matter then.

Yea. I just guessed that that's probably the reason for the change.
SN is also called "MySqueezebox.com"...

pski
2009-09-29, 18:12
Mostly it works.

It can take a little asking.

I don't get the "easier" nature of SqueezeBox Server vs SqueezeCenter.

I can say the Sony offering sounds like crap.

P

jarome
2009-09-29, 18:16
So how do I get radioio back on the Internet Radio Menu. Ditto for XM

I want as few high level menu items as possible.

aubuti
2009-09-29, 19:02
So how do I get radioio back on the Internet Radio Menu. Ditto for XM

I want as few high level menu items as possible.
You can't. They are "apps" now, so they are in "My Apps" or in the home (ie, top-level) menu. You can control what goes in the top-level menu via Settings. The specific settings depend on whether you are talking about the SBC menu, or one of the player menus (eg, SB3, Boom).

If it's too hard to type squeezeboxserver then just use tab-completion and you'll probably be fine with sq[tab], or define an alias.

Personally I'm not fond of the SbS name or the "apps" concept, but is it really that hard to adapt to these minor changes?

aubuti
2009-09-29, 19:17
Why don't you have a page that explains the logic for these updates, what has changed, and how to use this again?
Oh, and I forgot this: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Release_Notes

maggior
2009-09-29, 19:20
Along the same lines, what's up with the "apple-ification" of the features. First we have the Squeezebox Touch (reminds you of a certain iPod, no?). Now have have "apps" for our squeezeboxes. Those run on an iPod too, don't they? XM/Sirius, Last.FM, Soma, etc. are services, not apps.

Why do you have to be like Apple to think you're cool?

Sorry, but I hate to see these cutting edge products trying to fit into the current fashion of another company's products. They are great on their own and don't need ride the coattails of other products.

pablolie
2009-09-29, 19:50
... Now have have "apps" for our squeezeboxes. Those run on an iPod too, don't they? XM/Sirius, Last.FM, Soma, etc. are services, not apps. ...

I totally agree, they are not apps. The plugins, which remain called just that, *are* applications for the Squeeze platform. That is what squeeze application developers do.

tdnuerf
2009-09-29, 19:56
Change for change's sake is bad

+1

Hear, hear!

Yes, I'll get used to these UI changes. Yes, I'll get used to the decreased amount of information shown on my Controller's screen due to the cute little useless icons that now take up 20%+ of each line. Yes, I'll get used to the whole "Apps" thing, although I don't like it.

Perhaps we users could be allowed to choose these "pretty" changes or not via an interface configuration option? Or at least let us change font sizes (smaller to get more information, larger to read easier) and/or get rid of the icons?

eq72521
2009-09-29, 20:15
Honestly, this thread is making me reticent to upgrade my SlimServer, at least until some hopefully forthcoming options are hashed out. This rather reminds me of the Pidgin / FunPidgin -> Carrier split/fork.

I feel as though I'm forced to upgrade though because if I don't I need to go through the Firmware Update Dance every time I switch from SlimServer to SqueezeNetwork or vice versa. Does anyone else have this experience when running a SlimServer that's somewhat behind the times? Is this intentional? Is there any way around it?

eq72521
2009-09-29, 20:19
Honestly, this thread is making me reticent to upgrade my SlimServer, at least until some hopefully forthcoming options are hashed out. This rather reminds me of the Pidgin / FunPidgin -> Carrier split/fork.

I feel as though I'm forced to upgrade though because if I don't I need to go through the Firmware Update Dance every time I switch from SlimServer to SqueezeNetwork or vice versa. Does anyone else have this experience when running a SlimServer that's somewhat behind the times? Is this intentional? Is there any way around it?

Nevermind, I just read the release notes and see that for SqueezeNetwork users this is a required with a capital R upgrade (apparently beyond just the irritation of the Firmware Update Dance). Pidgin 2.4 here I come.

iPhone
2009-09-29, 20:21
Now I must type
rcsqueezeboxserver start
on my linux machine. Too hard to type!

Doesn't look like you had a problem typing it in your post. And because you seem to be miffed about it, I would also bet that you don't forget it in the near future. Who can't remember SBS and besides its only three more letters then you were typing before! Its the word "BOX" in the middle of what you used to type, really how hard can that be?

SilverRS8
2009-09-29, 23:21
In general the new controller interface looks nice but at first impression overwhelming.
- Which line is selected can not easily be seen while not moving the scroll wheel.
- The font used for the played and remaining time on the controller .... well, I wonder how that got to the release stage (readability is very low)
- It is a lot faster that before
- I too second that 'My Apps' are not apps and hence unintuitive
- Why is the center button functionality while viewing the now playing list replaced by the + button on the controller?

Ok, music library is now called 'My music' on all interfaces who decided to not do that on the SB3? Here it is still called Music library.

But, in general the new GUI is an improvement making it look a bit like apples as have been mentioned before on this thread but the user experience is a lot better. Plugin management by the way is superb!

bluegaspode
2009-09-30, 00:08
Why do you have to be like Apple to think you're cool?

Sorry, but I hate to see these cutting edge products trying to fit into the current fashion of another company's products.

Because that's how the market works ?
I'm pretty sure many people are attracted by the new Squeezebox Look and Feel.
Indeed you can also find them in this forum (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68489).
All in all this will help - if logitech makes more money they will also spend more money and make the product line even more appealing :)

By the way - I think the new naming more intuitive - it's at least consistent to have a SqueezeboxServer for all the SqueezeboxXXX-devices and a mySqueezebox-website to control the stuff.
Though you might are used to the old naming, it was very difficult before to get the hang of it.

Howard Passman
2009-09-30, 02:36
*IF* Logitech decided they were wrong by making these changes, by the time they did anything about it, we'd all be used to them. I don't like change for change sake. It's like a bump in my smooth road. I'm very disappointed in the SBC screen changes. Why everyone who has been using the SBC has to change for the sake of a new product is beyond me. Why not make the new product conform to the legacy product?

I know I'll get some flak for this, but I don't believe this type of product will ever become mainstream until you can just turn it on and it will work. One thing that's not like Apple is if you don't want to update, you don't have to in order to keep it working. I've got a first generation iPod that works just fine and has never been updated that I recall. I turn it on, I know where everything is and it works. It's getting a little iffy when it's below freezing, but it warms up before I do :-)

Just my .02.

toby10
2009-09-30, 02:39
"Apps" have no real benefit to existing SB players. But going forward with new players (Radio & Touch) the Apps make much more sense. Keeping everything the same across all platforms it's a necessary evil.

You will also notice your Music Services folder is gone, so now your services are bunched in with Flickr and podcasts and Amazon CD store.

FW Update Loop: Just playing around on my setup my SB3 on SC7.3.3 has no problem switching to MySB without the FW loop and functions fine. How it got to this state I am unsure as I have connected it to SC7.4 and the test-SN site recently. Boom, OTOH, graps the update every time.

mherger
2009-09-30, 02:58
> I know I'll get some flak for this, but I don't believe this type of
> product will ever become mainstream until you can just turn it on and it
> will work. One thing that's not like Apple is if you don't want to
> update, you don't have to in order to keep it working. I've got a first
> generation iPod that works just fine and has never been updated that I
> recall.

I think one important difference many ignore is that a SB is not a standalone product. It's relying on networks, server software, outside services (mysb.com) etc. If we don't want to run into countless compatibility issues, we have to make sure systems are more or less on the same level. Or they will cease working at some point.

That said I know we still can do better, and I hope we will.

corbey
2009-09-30, 04:19
My main problem with these types of upgrades is that they break plugins that some of us have come to rely on. In this case I'm thinking about the XM Radio plugin, which apparently does not work with 7.4.

Now, I realize that this can be one of the side effects of an open-source software product, but it's still highly annoying. Although I sometimes use SqueezeNetwork, I doubt if I'll be upgrading until this problem gets fixed.

pippin
2009-09-30, 04:36
Now, I realize that this can be one of the side effects of an open-source software product

No, it's a side effect of disregarding backwards compatibility and the use of fixed APIs.

There is open source SW that keeps interfaces around for one or two generations (or even longer) and it's good habit for a lot of APIs to deprecate a feature for one or two generations before it gets removed/changes to give 3rd parties a chance to change it.

Not so here. The philosophy is different and this is one of the side effects of this.

JeffHart
2009-09-30, 04:42
Now I must type
rcsqueezeboxserver start
on my linux machine. Too hard to type! And too hard to remember.

Jim Rome

Tip o' the day

alias rcsbs='<path>/rcsqueezeboxserver start'

yerma
2009-09-30, 05:36
My only use of SN (now MySB) was to wake me up with some local radio station on my Boom. Now I have to choose whether I prefer functionality (SC7.3.3: Duet running fine, SBC playback, SBC with a intuitve key mapping, working plugins) or MySB (and install SC7.4 to prevent my Boom to up/downgrade several times a day). Guess what, I'll dump MySB and skip the 7.4.0 release...

whitman
2009-09-30, 05:41
Moaning for moaning's sake is a bad thing.

I've used a couple of SB3s for years, and I've never used Squeeze Network, so I don't suppose I'll update for now. Can anyone tell me what SN's for that SC doesn't do?

pippin
2009-09-30, 05:46
Can anyone tell me what SN's for that SC doesn't do?

Run without a server.
Period.

whitman
2009-09-30, 05:47
Why?

aubuti
2009-09-30, 06:06
Why?
Because some people don't keep their computers on all the time and don't want to turn on the computer to listen to music. Or they don't like the noise or energy consumption of a computer when they don't need it, eg, to listen to internet radio, Pandora, Napster, Rhapsody, etc.

yerma
2009-09-30, 06:08
My server is shut down most of the time, it's only fired up via WOL when I want to listen to *my* music. No need to run a full blown server just to fall asleep to some lounge music radio station. Until now at least...

jarome
2009-09-30, 06:39
Tip o' the day

alias rcsbs='<path>/rcsqueezeboxserver start'

Ordinarily, it starts itself. But the digital signatures on the new release are not published to the usual places (e.g., pgp.mit.edu), so that my package manager (smart) refused to install it. And downloading the rpm in Linux with either Firefox or Konqueror failed. I had to get it on my Mac. And then I manually installed it, but forgot to stop the old server. This caused hours of delay trying to figure out why sbs could not connect to the database. This is very user unfriendly.

And I filed a bug about the signatures a year ago, and they still are not published!

get.amped
2009-09-30, 07:19
While I have no objection to making improvements, establishing standards and consistency, I am concerned that this major upgrade has been released with essentially no corresponding updates to the documentation that is available for users on the Wiki or the Logitech support site. I have a SlimDevices-labeled, original SqueezeBox and the documentation for it provided on-line by Logitech still refers to SlimServer, etc. The Wiki only references SqueezeCenter. I implement IT systems for a living and my clients are *not* interested in having a new system installed without getting documentation and training *before* it happens.

Considering that it takes the better part of a day to do a full rescan of my music library (~110,000 songs, ~8500 albums, ~1,900 artists with individual albums), and that I (finally!) got SqueezeCenter to organize artists/compilations in an acceptable manner, I am not inclined to simply take it on faith that Logitech has truly "improved" the software that currently does *exactly* what I want it to do.

Will my favorite plug-ins still work? I use Super Date Time, Lyrics, Biography, and Album Review all the time. I can't see any indication that the new version has been tested with them, which essentially means that users are going to have to do so and report back to the community. Often, for major commercial software releases, a beta testing period is publicly announced, add-on developers participate, interested users do some voluntary testing and the results are reported in advance of the final release. Given that this release is *required* in order to use the full functionality of the hardware, software, and remote resources, that approach would have been appropriate.

This is, to my recollection, the first release that is truly a complete departure functionally from its predecessor and I've been using this product since SlimServer 6.x. Which is not to say that the transition from 6.5 to 7.x was painless. It wasn't until release 7.2 that I was able to get a clean install to complete. Previous releases crashed and burned badly and I spent many hours reverting back to 6.5.

So, since the only SqueezeNetwork resource I really use is the Live Music Archive, and anything I find there that I really like I download as FLAC and play locally, I think I will wait a while (maybe a long while) to see what happens with the next few iterations of the new implementation.

aubuti
2009-09-30, 08:07
While I have no objection to making improvements, establishing standards and consistency, I am concerned that this major upgrade has been released with essentially no corresponding updates to the documentation that is available for users on the Wiki or the Logitech support site. I have a SlimDevices-labeled, original SqueezeBox and the documentation for it provided on-line by Logitech still refers to SlimServer, etc. The Wiki only references SqueezeCenter. I implement IT systems for a living and my clients are *not* interested in having a new system installed without getting documentation and training *before* it happens.
Good points. Updating documentation for constantly-evolving software like this is a thankless but nonetheless necessary task that too often doesn't get the attention it deserves.


Will my favorite plug-ins still work? I use Super Date Time, Lyrics, Biography, and Album Review all the time. I can't see any indication that the new version has been tested with them, which essentially means that users are going to have to do so and report back to the community. Often, for major commercial software releases, a beta testing period is publicly announced, add-on developers participate, interested users do some voluntary testing and the results are reported in advance of the final release. Given that this release is *required* in order to use the full functionality of the hardware, software, and remote resources, that approach would have been appropriate.
Huh? Have you taken a look in the Beta forum (http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12) or the 3rd Party Plugins forum (http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4)? Plenty of very active threads on precisely these issues have been going on about 7.4 since at least the latter part of 2008. There are various stones that one can throw at SB software development, but lack of openness certainly ain't one of them.

jarome
2009-09-30, 08:31
I looked at the release notes, and the e-mail from Logitech. I am still at a loss of what to do with the new menu items. They certainly seem inappropriate for my squeezeboxes. Why would I want to use FaceBook?
The default menu items should be different for the different squeeze devices.

I do two things with my squeezeboxes and Controller: I listen to my ripped music and I listen to Internet radio. So why do I need a MyApps menu item to listen to radioio? It should be on the Internet Radio menu item. Why can't I move it? Why can't I add stations to Internet Radio? This then forces me to also add Favorites to my top menu.

The only good thing I see is the ability to install all plugins from the Server Web page.

aubuti
2009-09-30, 08:43
Huh? Have you taken a look in the Beta forum (http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12) or the 3rd Party Plugins forum (http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4)? Plenty of very active threads on precisely these issues have been going on about 7.4 since at least the latter part of 2008. There are various stones that one can throw at SB software development, but lack of openness certainly ain't one of them.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, for the truly interested there is Bugzilla: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/

get.amped
2009-09-30, 08:58
Huh? Have you taken a look in the Beta forum (http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12) or the 3rd Party Plugins forum (http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4)? Plenty of very active threads on precisely these issues have been going on about 7.4 since at least the latter part of 2008. There are various stones that one can throw at SB software development, but lack of openness certainly ain't one of them.

No argument there. I'm referring more to what Logitech is doing. Quite honestly, I don't follow the forums here regularly, particularly since my music setup works quite well. I have plenty of other personal and professional research to keep up with, so the only time I end up here is when I need to determine whether I'm going to do an upgrade or (very occasionally) to see if there are any new plugins that might be of interest.

But this time what brought me here was an e-mail from Logitech informing me about changes that had already occurred. And while there is undoubtably a wealth of information in the other forums (which I will be looking through when I have some more time), that community resource should not completely replace what Logitech should be doing to inform users about significant development events. I have to believe that most SqueezeBox owners are not going to actively follow the software development effort unless they have some very good reason for doing so. It's possible, had I known in advance that the software was going to be significantly modified (rather than the general trend which had been more about bug fixes), I would have had a reason to keep up on the progress and even provided some input about architecture and interface (notably that there is a difference between a "Service" and an "App" and they definitely should not be lumped together). Basically, an e-mail six months or a year ago (whenever the desicion was made) announcing the decision to significantly change the design would have been useful.

whitman
2009-09-30, 09:08
Because some people don't keep their computers on all the time and don't want to turn on the computer to listen to music. Or they don't like the noise or energy consumption of a computer when they don't need it, eg, to listen to internet radio, Pandora, Napster, Rhapsody, etc.

This person leaves his computer on and uses his SBs to listen to his music or to internet radio. I understand 'some people' do different. So, presumably, I don't come into the You-Have-No-Choice-But-To-Update-Now! category.

aubuti
2009-09-30, 09:39
This person leaves his computer on and uses his SBs to listen to his music or to internet radio. I understand 'some people' do different. So, presumably, I don't come into the You-Have-No-Choice-But-To-Update-Now! category.
Sorry, I didn't realize that your "Why?" was a rhetorical question. And correct, as long as you connect to internet services via your local SC server, you don't need to upgrade to 7.4. Or was the "presumably" rhetorical as well? ;o)

socistep
2009-09-30, 10:59
I don't use SN as have a dedicated server (its currently on 7.3.2), I decided to connect to SN to get the new update to test it out.

My scientific analysis is - it looks fine, it works well, things change and people will always moan.

I personally prefer the new UI and if you don't want the apps then don't use them, regardless of whether they are called apps, plugins etc. they still do the same job - can't you change the home menu to display what you want ?

Point to remember is that these changes and the new products are likely to result in increased sales which will ensure we still get new SB products and new toys to play with

snarlydwarf
2009-09-30, 11:07
Point to remember is that these changes and the new products are likely to result in increased sales which will ensure we still get new SB products and new toys to play with

To quote the Talking Heads:

Stop Making Sense.

DotSystem
2009-09-30, 13:12
Why?

If you're producing a product like the Boom, there are competitor radio products that just require an internet connection to function. These competitors don't issue upgrades that brick working product. It should not be necessary to install an unwanted server to prevent a Boom from being impaired.

http://standards.ieee.org/reading/ieee/std_public/description/se/982.1-1988_desc.html

aubuti
2009-09-30, 13:32
If you're producing a product like the Boom, there are competitor radio products that just require an internet connection to function. These competitors don't issue upgrades that brick working product. It should not be necessary to install an unwanted server to prevent a Boom from being impaired.
It isn't. Exactly what is the problem you're referring to? I haven't seen threads reporting Booms bricked by the latest firmware update, and mine updated fine, including connecting directly to mysb.com. But in the flurry of posts since the new release I'm sure I missed a few. If you want help with an update that went bad then some more details are needed. But if you just want to vent, then no details are needed.

whitman
2009-09-30, 13:48
Sorry, I didn't realize that your "Why?" was a rhetorical question. And correct, as long as you connect to internet services via your local SC server, you don't need to upgrade to 7.4. Or was the "presumably" rhetorical as well? ;o)

Nope, nothing rhetorical about the 'why?' - I did want an answer. I genuinely wondered what anyone might want the Squeeze Network for as I've never even thought about it till now. Same with my 'presumably' question: I'm interested in the answer. Do I HAVE to get this update or don't I, as a Squeezecenter-only user?

snarlydwarf
2009-09-30, 13:54
Nope, nothing rhetorical about the 'why?' - I did want an answer. I genuinely wondered what anyone might want the Squeeze Network for as I've never even thought about it till now. Same with my 'presumably' question: I'm interested in the answer. Do I HAVE to get this update or don't I, as a Squeezecenter-only user?

If you don't use SN, then, no, you don't need the update unless you buy a SB Radio...

pski
2009-09-30, 18:20
If you're producing a product like the Boom, there are competitor radio products that just require an internet connection to function. These competitors don't issue upgrades that brick working product. It should not be necessary to install an unwanted server to prevent a Boom from being impaired.

http://standards.ieee.org/reading/ieee/std_public/description/se/982.1-1988_desc.html

Hello Junior Member,

This is a place of help, not a discussion of your employers products.

Sorry you don't have anything to do.

Where and who are you? What products do you own? How are you qualified to post here?

Pski

Reinaldo
2009-09-30, 19:57
Everyone does it these days. Now that the developers are under the Logitech umbrella they probably got the word from management or marketing. I expect that the bare bones utilitarian appearance and relatively clear function of the user interface was just too much for the Logitech "ecosystem" to bear. Clearly there appears to be is nothing "organic" about the arbitrary way in which the apps, the plugins, the menus, the services interact and certainly nothing alive in there. So we are left with only 1 remaining definition of "ecosystem" = "an often delicate or intricate system or complex". Doesn't leave one with a comfortable feeling that said ecosystem is either hardy or simple. Sort of like Palin choosing "rogue" to characterize herself. Misuse or semantic pollution but it sure does look darn cute and maybe even a little green.

In addition to the lack of consistent updates to the terminology throughout the "ecosystem" which indicates lack of concern for the users of their products and the non-negotiable demand that I apply their update my confidence in the quality of this release was undermined almost immediately when I attempted to use the link on page

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Release_Notes#Upgrade_to_7.4.0_Required

under "See this list of addressed SqueezeCenter and player changes in this release" and was taken to a page

http://svn.slimdevices.com/slim/7.4/branches/7.4.0/server/Changelog7.html?view=co

that reads

"An Exception Has Occurred

Unknown location: /7.4/branches/7.4.0/server/Changelog7.html
HTTP Response Status

404 Not Found"

Why would I even consider upgrading when I can't even see the detailed listing of changes for the 7.4.0 release because some technician couldn't be bothered to check the links in their official latest and greatest Release Notes page?

maggior
2009-09-30, 20:25
pski - did you get up on the wrong side of the bed and put your cranky pants on this morning? This the second thread I've seen you berate somebody because they haven't acheived "senior status" yet.

Hopefully these folks will realize that not all of us senior members are curmudgeons.

Mushroom_3
2009-10-01, 04:02
Hello Junior Member,

This is a place of help, not a discussion of your employers products.

Sorry you don't have anything to do.

Where and who are you? What products do you own? How are you qualified to post here?

Pski

This is the second post of yours in threads I've read today belittling junior members. What, prey, gives you the right to go round the various threads handing out these putdowns.

I have personally received some very good advice from so called junior members. Your post count isn't that great, and if it consists of posts like these it goes to prove that quantity isn't always the same as quality.

DotSystem
2009-10-01, 04:20
Hello Junior Member,

This is a place of help, not a discussion of your employers products.

Sorry you don't have anything to do.

Where and who are you? What products do you own? How are you qualified to post here?

Pski

Senior Sage

I own a Transporter, Duet and 3 Booms - my bad. I don't work for a competitor. I know a little about software design - MS.

IMO, the fact that each of these products must be updated at the same time is not a good design - convenient for Logitech perhaps but not a good design. I also own a few products by OPPO Digital. They offer software updates. They are not perfect but their software process is a few notches above what I see here. They also have an active community but actually don't need it as much.

Congratulations on your social promotion to Senior status.

dave77
2009-10-01, 05:53
I understand my boom will update if I connect to SN from it. Once the Boom firmware has updated does that mean that I wouldn't be able to connect to a 7.3.3 SC from it?

MrSinatra
2009-10-01, 06:21
I think one important difference many ignore is that a SB is not a standalone product. It's relying on networks, server software, outside services (mysb.com) etc. If we don't want to run into countless compatibility issues, we have to make sure systems are more or less on the same level. Or they will cease working at some point.

That said I know we still can do better, and I hope we will.

which is why i have said for years you need to develop and sell an all in one product, ie. it has SC and a client in one box. optionally, a server only box as well.

and moreover, i just looked at the new homepage and "animated" helper, and its STILL isn't made clear what you just said above.

a chart showing what the environment requirements are for each scenario SHOULD BE MADE. ie. if you want a duet, and you want local music, you need a computer wired to a router running SC. if you just want net music, you don't need SC and the computer. that kind of thing.

toby10
2009-10-01, 06:32
I understand my boom will update if I connect to SN from it. Once the Boom firmware has updated does that mean that I wouldn't be able to connect to a 7.3.3 SC from it?

Your Boom will connect back to 7.3.3 just fine, only every time you switch from SC to MySB, or from MySB to SC, your Boom will update it's FW again.

toby10
2009-10-01, 06:44
If you're producing a product like the Boom, there are competitor radio products that just require an internet connection to function. These competitors don't issue upgrades that brick working product. It should not be necessary to install an unwanted server to prevent a Boom from being impaired.......

Indeed. Now compare what services & features & functions are on those standalone internet only radios vs the Boom.

If you are using your Boom for internet only SN/MySB connections (and I'd bet many do) then your FW updates would be rare.

I've never had a "bricked" unit with four different SB players going back several years. I'm sure it has happened, somewhere-somehow, but I think this would be a very rare instance.

In the last two years SB/Logitech has probably doubled the amount of Music Services it offers, to say nothing of other features and enhancements they have added. Most of these additions require a FW Update to the players so the players can communicate and function with newly added services and features.

ds2021
2009-10-01, 07:51
I remember the early days of streaming music when I had a Rio Receiver. The software came out with the product and was never again updated. Ever. That really sucked.

I get the impression that the folks behind this are making a genuine effort to improve the product/software combination. When I get the feel that it's for worthwhile for me, I upgrade. If not, I wait. I have had my share of issues over time, but this works for me. Overall, the changes to this product line have been to my advantage (especially iPeng by the way).

pippin
2009-10-01, 09:10
I remember the early days of streaming music when I had a Rio Receiver. The software came out with the product and was never again updated. Ever. That really sucked.

I get the impression that the folks behind this are making a genuine effort to improve the product/software combination. When I get the feel that it's for worthwhile for me, I upgrade. If not, I wait. I have had my share of issues over time, but this works for me. Overall, the changes to this product line have been to my advantage (especially iPeng by the way).

Yet as a 3rd party developer I have to say that DotSystem has a point here.
SD has a habit of breaking a lot of things with new releases and it's always a huge effort to only keep up with the changes.

And I do have the opinion (and expressed it quite a few times over in the developer forum) that this has to change because it negates the huge asset (IMHO) the community development is.

IMHO, any changes to interfaces, internal as well as external should be deprecated for one release before taking effect so that developers have time to adapt.

But after all, that's a design decision and we have to be aware of the price. Look at Microsoft's products. Some of them are barely usable these days (IE comes to mind) because they carry so much legacy around, sometimes just making a clean cut has it's advantages, too.

FredFredrickson
2009-10-01, 09:39
I personally had a very negative reaction to the "apps", and how they relate to multiple players- but since then a lot of work has been put into mysqueezebox.com and it turns out it really does make a lot of sense- and I did get used to it. It's really not bad at all, and if it opens up the door to add more providers on an easier and on-going basis, I say more power to them!

Enough of being mad! Let's look at the bright side! More and more providers! YAY!

TiredLegs
2009-10-01, 10:01
Am I the only one who thinks Logitech should have made one more change with this release considering everything else that got changed: up the version number to 8.0, rather than a minor 7.x bump?

pippin
2009-10-01, 10:07
Am I the only one who thinks Logitech should have made one more change with this release considering everything else that got changed: up the version number to 8.0, rather than a minor 7.x bump?

Yep. Thought the same here.
Yet I think everybody is so much in "8.0 is database scheme change" mode that it became forgotten...

TiredLegs
2009-10-01, 10:20
I think everybody is so much in "8.0 is database scheme change" mode that it became forgotten...
That's too bad, because the average user (i.e. one who doesn't participate in the forums) won't have a clue that going from version 7.3 to 7.4 will induce such an altered user experience with plugins, SqueezeNetwork, etc..

exile
2009-10-01, 10:23
very entertaining thread. thanks for the fun reading. and a lot of good points have been raised with the obvious exception of pski's comments (although it does seem fitting that his name sounds out pesky-as in annoying).

perhaps the best idea so far though is ipeng's (woops, i mean pippin's):


Y

IMHO, any changes to interfaces, internal as well as external should be deprecated for one release before taking effect so that developers have time to adapt.

the single most frustrating aspect of the squeeze updates is how they usually make a wide variety of marvelous plugins inoperable until the developers of those plugins do us the favor of updating them. this seems to be a very inefficient and unnecessary workflow strategy.

and from here forward I think we have to hope that newbies to the product have a lot of patience and somehow can figure out that slimserver is squeezecenter is mysqueezebox is ??? in 8.0.

gcurrie
2009-10-01, 10:45
and from here forward I think we have to hope that newbies to the product have a lot of patience and somehow can figure out that slimserver is squeezecenter is mysqueezebox is ??? in 8.0.

slimserver -> squeezecenter -> squeezebox server
www.squeezenetwork.com -> www.mysqueezebox.com

(way too easy to mix them up)

Howard Passman
2009-10-02, 01:59
No argument there. I'm referring more to what Logitech is doing. Quite honestly, I don't follow the forums here regularly, particularly since my music setup works quite well. I have plenty of other personal and professional research to keep up with, so the only time I end up here is when I need to determine whether I'm going to do an upgrade or (very occasionally) to see if there are any new plugins that might be of interest.

But this time what brought me here was an e-mail from Logitech informing me about changes that had already occurred. And while there is undoubtably a wealth of information in the other forums (which I will be looking through when I have some more time), that community resource should not completely replace what Logitech should be doing to inform users about significant development events. I have to believe that most SqueezeBox owners are not going to actively follow the software development effort unless they have some very good reason for doing so.

Exactly! I really don't look at the forum every week. I only come here to check on new items and when there is one, I hang out to find out what I can because Logitech itself isn't a good source of information. Sales support and product support are poor, at best, in my opinion. It's cool that so many people are in to it and especially the folks who develope the great plugins that are out there, but for the average Joe, it's rediculous that he has to come here at all.

I use the current crop of high end DSLR cameras, use photoshop and Nikon editing software and I don't have to go to a forum to use them. A music playing device should be much simpler than that.

Howard

mherger
2009-10-02, 02:12
>> But this time what brought me here was an e-mail from Logitech
>> informing me about changes that had already occurred. And while there is
>> undoubtably a wealth of information in the other forums (which I will be
>> looking through when I have some more time), that community resource
>> should not completely replace what Logitech should be doing to inform
>> users about significant development events.

Agreed. I forwarded the idea of sending out announcements _before_ the
changes, announcing on mysb.com itself and probably even on the player to
our marketing and management.

eq72521
2009-10-02, 12:13
>> But this time what brought me here was an e-mail from Logitech
>> informing me about changes that had already occurred. And while there is
>> undoubtably a wealth of information in the other forums (which I will be
>> looking through when I have some more time), that community resource
>> should not completely replace what Logitech should be doing to inform
>> users about significant development events.

Agreed. I forwarded the idea of sending out announcements _before_ the
changes, announcing on mysb.com itself and probably even on the player to
our marketing and management.

Please not on the players.

DotSystem
2009-10-02, 17:54
Email is fine for upgrade or new product announcements but don't clutter my Boom clock radios with it.

Ever see a Boom go out of sync with its front panel or remote? You might be trying to adjust the volume but it appears not to respond. A minute later it is blasting at full volume because it queued up all the key presses. Last time I had this problem there were issues at the Logitech end.

If there are problems on their network causing this type of degradation that impedes the operation of the player, I would like the front panel display to alert me so I can decide whether to alert Logitech or ride it out. Thats a useful notification.

In a mixed system, I have diffrent expectation of a Boom than a Transporter or Duet. I want the Boom to function as basic internet radio that does not wake me up with the ghost of removed alarms. When my wife turns the volume knob, she expects the volume to increase (exactly then) And the players, I just want them to stream reliably. Are we there yet? Don't care about keeping up with the Joneses.

Otherwise I prefer the upgrades and 'innovations' to be transparent to me.

Why should my Boom self-update its firmware unless I ask it to or grant permission? The 7.4 document on the web site suggests it is necessary to upgrade to 7.4 to connect to your network but the Boom firmware self-updates and reverts when you switch back and forth between connection types in the presence of 7.3.3. So what exactly does 7.4 install package do for Boom beyond stopping the firmware swapping frenzy?

If you want to make the Boom do something useful in response to connection status, why not have the Boom fall back to your network when SC is off or to SC when your network is degraded?

Since there are no separate provisions for upgrading individual products, you are forcing users to upgrade them all at once. Upgrade to solve a problem in one unit (dismal Duet behavior) got me rebuffering issues on my Transporter.

Perhaps a consumer should only own one type of Logitech product and then all would be well. It could all be explained in a Wiki.

Guess Sean knew when to bail.

peterw
2009-10-02, 20:25
Your Boom will connect back to 7.3.3 just fine, only every time you switch from SC to MySB, or from MySB to SC, your Boom will update it's FW again.

It is possible to configure your SC 7.3 instance to not force a player to downgrade firmware. I do this when testing new versions. I haven't tried running a Boom with 7.4 firmware against SC 7.3, but I do have a Classic running 7.4 firmware against a 7.3 SC instance (probably something like 7.3.1; I don't upgrade my production server to minor dot patch releases unless needed) and it seems to work fine. Logitech typically (though perhaps not always) forces the exact firmware match because it makes life easier on their support & QA staff -- fewer variables to account for. Often newer firmware works fine with older SC software -- I've never seen a problem.

snarlydwarf
2009-10-02, 22:48
Guess Sean knew when to bail.

*plonk*

TiredLegs
2009-10-03, 04:43
Guess Sean knew when to bail.
Interesting thing is that Sean still posts in the forums on occasion. I guess his heart is still with us, even if his paycheck isn't.

DotSystem
2009-10-03, 06:19
It is possible to configure your SC 7.3 instance to not force a player to downgrade firmware. I do this when testing new versions. I haven't tried running a Boom with 7.4 firmware against SC 7.3, but I do have a Classic running 7.4 firmware against a 7.3 SC instance (probably something like 7.3.1; I don't upgrade my production server to minor dot patch releases unless needed) and it seems to work fine. Logitech typically (though perhaps not always) forces the exact firmware match because it makes life easier on their support & QA staff -- fewer variables to account for. Often newer firmware works fine with older SC software -- I've never seen a problem.

Thanks PeterW. I suppose if I post enough questions I could become a valued senior member like pski. I just want the stuff to work without the need to research the effects of monolithic upgrades on 3 different products. The better solution is to put individual product update under user control. This could require changes to the server. It is probably hard-coded to specific dependencies. And it is better fix the what you have before upping the ante with new and probably buggy features.

I still don't understand why they say this:

Upgrade to 7.4.0 Required
Required for SqueezeNetwork Users
If you connect your players to SqueezeNetwork at any time, then you must upgrade to 7.4.

when the firmware is switching all by itself. Apparently the firmware is pushed from the website when a user has not installed 7.4.

Either I am missing something or the document linked below from which the above is copied is inaccurate and misleading. 'Must' is different than 'we recommend'.


http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Release_Notes#Required_for_SqueezeNetwork_Users

nowork
2009-10-03, 06:26
Peter W says - "It is possible to configure your SC 7.3 instance to not force a player to downgrade firmware."

WOW, sounds like what I'd like to do. I want to occasionally use SN, oops! mySB, and am not ready to tackle SC/SBS 7.4. I'd love to disable firmware downgrades on my SB devices.

How do I configure SqueezeCenter (7.3x) to NOT downgrade device firmware?

Thanks

TheLastMan
2009-10-03, 09:17
Because some people don't keep their computers on all the time and don't want to turn on the computer to listen to music. Or they don't like the noise or energy consumption of a computer when they don't need it, eg, to listen to internet radio, Pandora, Napster, Rhapsody, etc.

Which is why there is so much effort in the SB community put into running SC/SBS on Network Attached Storage devices. Heck, people are even running it on intelligent wall warts now!

My NAS consumes about 5w in standby mode, and 18w serving music. That is about the same as one low energy lightbulb. It means that I can keep 7.3.3 - which works just fine for me.

I think 7.3.3 was the last iteration of software designed specifically for the Duet / Boom / SB3 / Transporter line. Logitech have moved on with their product line and good luck to them. But if you don't want to get dragged along with them, and forced to accept software and firmware more appropriate to their new touch screen devices, then you will need to have a server on 24/7 - and for most, that means a NAS.

whitman
2009-10-04, 02:59
Which is why there is so much effort in the SB community put into running SC/SBS on Network Attached Storage devices. Heck, people are even running it on intelligent wall warts now!
My NAS consumes about 5w in standby mode, and 18w serving music. That is about the same as one low energy lightbulb. It means that I can keep 7.3.3 - which works just fine for me.
I think 7.3.3 was the last iteration of software designed specifically for the Duet / Boom / SB3 / Transporter line. Logitech have moved on with their product line and good luck to them. But if you don't want to get dragged along with them, and forced to accept software and firmware more appropriate to their new touch screen devices, then you will need to have a server on 24/7 - and for most, that means a NAS.

Thought I'd pop back in here now that someone's mentioned keeping their server on 24/7.

So, what's an NAS when it's at home? Er, an external disk drive sitting on the network, is it? And what's a server - a computer on the network? (Note to all - these are not rhetorical questions.)

I keep my computer on all the time because, well, that's what I do. And my computer has all my music on it. And my computer links to the internet. So I don't use Squeezenetwork, or whatever it's called this week. So I don't have to upgrade. Is that all correct, chaps?

toby10
2009-10-04, 04:02
....... So I don't use Squeezenetwork, or whatever it's called this week. So I don't have to upgrade. Is that all correct, chaps?

Correct, no need to upgrade. If you are on SC7.3 you can use the new MySB.com (SqueezeNetwork) just fine, if needed.

Phil Leigh
2009-10-04, 04:32
Thought I'd pop back in here now that someone's mentioned keeping their server on 24/7.

So, what's an NAS when it's at home? Er, an external disk drive sitting on the network, is it? And what's a server - a computer on the network? (Note to all - these are not rhetorical questions.)

I keep my computer on all the time because, well, that's what I do. And my computer has all my music on it. And my computer links to the internet. So I don't use Squeezenetwork, or whatever it's called this week. So I don't have to upgrade. Is that all correct, chaps?

yep - correct - just like me (my pc goes to sleep when not being used and wakes in a few seconds when music is required). Never used SN, never will.
However, 7.4.1 runs like a dream for me...

tylersmith
2009-10-04, 13:07
With 7.4, you have managed to make it totally unintuitive to do anything with my squeezebox.
1) Why is radioio now under MyApps instead of Internet Radio? How do I move it back?
2) XM Radio which finally was working is now broken again.
3) Changing the name os the server for the third time to something really long is bad. What was wrong with SqueezeServer? Now I must type
rcsqueezeboxserver start
on my linux machine. Too hard to type! And too hard to remember.

Why don't you have a page that explains the logic for these updates, what has changed, and how to use this again?

Jim Rome

Hey, how about this one. After the 7.4 "upgrade" I have two icons: one named Squeezebox Server and the other Squeezebox Control Panel. BOTH of them lead to Control Panel. Where has the Server gone? Well, there is a small tray icon. If I double click that I get Control Panel again. If I RIGHT click on it I get a menu one of whose choices is "Open Web Control..."
Web Control? What's that? I'm looking for Server. Turns out that clicking on "Web Control" does open Server. Did anyone at Logitech try to USE this before releasing it? This kind of thing defies comprehension.

kdf
2009-10-04, 13:47
On 2009-10-04, at 1:07 PM, tylersmith wrote:

>
> Web Control? What's that? I'm looking for Server. Turns out that
> clicking on "Web Control" does open Server.

Incorrect. It opens a web-based UI to the features delivered the
server. It has never opened "the server" and there has never been
anything you could open for "the server". The server simply serves up
info to whatever UI you want, no matter what you call it. Be it, CLI,
IPeng, SqueezePlay, Web control, or Moose. Web Control was apparently
some naming convention that came out of the re-branding, focus groups
and customer testing.

-kdf

tylersmith
2009-10-04, 13:59
On 2009-10-04, at 1:07 PM, tylersmith wrote:

>
> Web Control? What's that? I'm looking for Server. Turns out that
> clicking on "Web Control" does open Server.

Incorrect. It opens a web-based UI to the features delivered the
server. It has never opened "the server" and there has never been
anything you could open for "the server". The server simply serves up
info to whatever UI you want, no matter what you call it. Be it, CLI,
IPeng, SqueezePlay, Web control, or Moose. Web Control was apparently
some naming convention that came out of the re-branding, focus groups
and customer testing.

-kdf

Then why did the 7.4 software install an icon in my start menu called "Squeezebox Server"? Perhaps Logitech should hire a single solitary employee who is not an IT gearhead and let him vet the software.

sebp
2009-10-04, 14:52
Then why did the 7.4 software install an icon in my start menu called "Squeezebox Server"?
Maybe because "Squeezebox Server" is the name of the software you installed?

This software is composed of a server program running in the background, the other software and libraries it depends on (mainly Perl and MySQL), and - on MacOS and Windows only - a control panel entry that can be used to configure its base settings, check its status, start it up or shut it down. The Windows version also comes with a tray icon. No more, no less.

What you called "Server", and which is now called "Web control" is only one of many user interfaces offered by the server software, ie client access to the server software.

Although I don't use Windows and can't see the reason why there are several entries in the Start menu (but maybe one launches the tray icon?), this new naming scheme all seems very logical to me.

May I ask what you'd have expected?

TheLastMan
2009-10-05, 04:56
Thought I'd pop back in here now that someone's mentioned keeping their server on 24/7.

So, what's an NAS when it's at home? Er, an external disk drive sitting on the network, is it?

And what's a server - a computer on the network? (Note to all - these are not rhetorical questions.)

To run your SqueezeBox devices you need a computer on your system to run the SqueezeBoxServer (SBS) application, previously called SqueezeCenter(SC). Logitech have very helpfully released SBS written in Perl, a language that is cross-platform, so can be run on Windows, Apple and Linux devices - with various levels of user modifications.

As long as you have SBS or SC running on your network you do not need to use MySqueezeBox (Squeeze Network).

Any device running the software is effectively a "server" as it is serving up the application to "client" SqueezeBox devices. The types of Server you can use are:

Applications Server
A fully fledged computer designed to run applications which can be controlled by "client" computers. These are usually quite powerful machines and use specialist operating systems such as Windows XP Server or some specialist Unix/Linux opeating systems. These are designed to be left on 24/7 and often combine running applications with data storage (although some enthusiasts cobble together servers from old PC parts and free Linux to save costs).
Advantages: Fast, reliable, flexible
Disadvantages: Large, expensive (if bought off-the-shelf), high energy consumption.

Personal Computer
Virtually any computer can run SBS. Most users will install it on a PC running either Windows, Mac OS or standard Linux distro. Logitech make simple installations of the software to run on each of these platforms. As most people already have a PC, there is no extra cost to running SBS on it.
Advantages: Fast, low (zero extra) cost, flexible
Disadvantages: Large (usually), poorer reliability than application server or Nas, high energy consmpution.

NAS = "Networked Attached Storage Device"
A network connected hard disk (single or array). Originally these were very simple devices consisting little more than a hard drive, a disc controller chip and a very basic embedded Linux operating system. Their original function was to be little more than a repository for data files, they were never originally designed to run applications. Domestic versions contain either one or two hard drives and are usually very small and very low power (usually <20w).

Over time NAS users have demanded more and more functionality so they are becoming more capable. What differentiates them from an application server or a PC is that the functions are generally limited to those provided by the maker. Netgear, Synology and Qnap have all released versions of SqueezeCenter to run on their NAS devices, and most Linux NAS devices can be hacked to run SqueezeCenter if you know what you are doing. The processors are not a match for a PC, however, and memory is usually limited too. This makes them slower to react to commands than a PC or server and the web browser is usually a lot slower too.

Advantages: Small, reliable, low energy consumption
Disadvantages: Slower, inflexible, expensive.

I run SqueezeCenter 7.3.3 on a single drive Synology Diskstation NAS. It is not much bigger than the hard drive it contains, runs very quiet/cool and I have no qualms about leaving it always-on. It is also my main backup drive and it has simple to set up applications for accessing my data, photos, music and other stuff from anywhere using a web browser.

aubuti
2009-10-05, 06:30
Because some people don't keep their computers on all the time and don't want to turn on the computer to listen to music. Or they don't like the noise or energy consumption of a computer when they don't need it, eg, to listen to internet radio, Pandora, Napster, Rhapsody, etc.

Which is why there is so much effort in the SB community put into running SC/SBS on Network Attached Storage devices. Heck, people are even running it on intelligent wall warts now!

My NAS consumes about 5w in standby mode, and 18w serving music. That is about the same as one low energy lightbulb. It means that I can keep 7.3.3 - which works just fine for me.

I think 7.3.3 was the last iteration of software designed specifically for the Duet / Boom / SB3 / Transporter line. Logitech have moved on with their product line and good luck to them. But if you don't want to get dragged along with them, and forced to accept software and firmware more appropriate to their new touch screen devices, then you will need to have a server on 24/7 - and for most, that means a NAS.
Not quite sure why you quoted my post in your response. I was converted long ago to the 24/7 server idea, and have now switched from a NAS to an Atom-based PC that matches your NAS's specs for power consumption. I was merely answering another post that asked why everyone didn't do that.

I should add, though, that even with more powerful NASs and Sheeva plugs and the likes, there are still a lot of users who don't want to turn on the computer to listen to music. Which is why Logitech is also putting effort into partnerships with music services via MySB.com. For example, my neighbor who listens almost exclusively to Rhapsody and internet radio became sold on SBs when he found out that he turn off his computer, unplug it from his stereo, and listen via the SB directly from his router.

Also, your last para seems to suggest that there's nothing in 7.4.0 for owners of SB/SB2/SB3/TP/Duet, and that's simply not the case. Yes, if you want to avoid the upgrade to 7.4.0 you need to be running a local SqueezeCenter. But you shouldn't necessarily avoid 7.4.0 just because you don't have an SB Radio or SB Touch. In particular, 7.4.0 has a lot of nice new features for the SBC (although a couple small steps backwards as well).

TheLastMan
2009-10-05, 07:50
Not quite sure why you quoted my post in your response. I was converted long ago to the 24/7 server idea, and have now switched from a NAS to an Atom-based PC that matches your NAS's specs for power consumption. I was merely answering another post that asked why everyone didn't do that.

I should add, though, that even with more powerful NASs and Sheeva plugs and the likes, there are still a lot of users who don't want to turn on the computer to listen to music. Which is why Logitech is also putting effort into partnerships with music services via MySB.com. For example, my neighbor who listens almost exclusively to Rhapsody and internet radio became sold on SBs when he found out that he turn off his computer, unplug it from his stereo, and listen via the SB directly from his router.

Also, your last para seems to suggest that there's nothing in 7.4.0 for owners of SB/SB2/SB3/TP/Duet, and that's simply not the case. Yes, if you want to avoid the upgrade to 7.4.0 you need to be running a local SqueezeCenter. But you shouldn't necessarily avoid 7.4.0 just because you don't have an SB Radio or SB Touch. In particular, 7.4.0 has a lot of nice new features for the SBC (although a couple small steps backwards as well).

Aubuti, I was just expanding on what you stated rather than in any way questioning it. In particular I wanted to point out how others who "don't like the noise or energy consumption" get round the problem without abandoning the 24/7 server idea or being forced to upgrade to 7.4.

Not only is 7.3.3 "not broke", it is turning out to be very reliable and predictable. It is a very 'mature' software release, with all the functions the Controller was designed for working well with the existing product line (Receiver, Classic, Boom and Transporter).

I think it would be fair to say that the new graphics interface with 7.4 is designed primarily for the new portrait orientated touch screen devices and to emulate the "Apps" focused approach of the iPod Touch. Hence some compromises have been made with the Controller button designations and the replay function using the headphone socket. The latter has become very important to me. A lot have reported that this has become stuttery or unreliable with 7.4. That would not be a small problem for me. At the very least this would have to be 100% fixed before I were to consider upgrading.

I am sure there are improvements in 7.4, but having finally got the Duet to work exactly how I want it to with 7.3.3 - and got my family trained up on the Controller interface - I don't really want to endanger that.

Obviously everybody's priorities are different and for others the benefits will outweigh the compromises. YMMV.

whitman
2009-10-05, 08:34
Matt, thanks so much for the detailed reply to my question about definitions of NAS and server. You ought to be writing Logitech's 'explanations' for them: you obviously understand that what's needed is clarity and simple explanations. Quite a novelty. Plenty of us who use this gear just want the music, not the computing degree.

peterw
2009-10-05, 08:55
Peter W says - "It is possible to configure your SC 7.3 instance to not force a player to downgrade firmware."

WOW, sounds like what I'd like to do. I want to occasionally use SN, oops! mySB, and am not ready to tackle SC/SBS 7.4. I'd love to disable firmware downgrades on my SB devices.

How do I configure SqueezeCenter (7.3x) to NOT downgrade device firmware?


Basically, you edit the ".version" files in the Firmware directory. Here's a post explaining how I edit the squeezebox2.version file to make SC/SBS tolerate different frimwares for SB2/SB3/Classic (all use the same squeezebox2 firmware): http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=319093&postcount=8

Same basic principle should work for other "old" players (Boom, Transporter, Receiver).

aubuti
2009-10-05, 09:18
I think it would be fair to say that the new graphics interface with 7.4 is designed primarily for the new portrait orientated touch screen devices and to emulate the "Apps" focused approach of the iPod Touch. Hence some compromises have been made with the Controller button designations and the replay function using the headphone socket. The latter has become very important to me. A lot have reported that this has become stuttery or unreliable with 7.4. That would not be a small problem for me. At the very least this would have to be 100% fixed before I were to consider upgrading.

I am sure there are improvements in 7.4, but having finally got the Duet to work exactly how I want it to with 7.3.3 - and got my family trained up on the Controller interface - I don't really want to endanger that.

Obviously everybody's priorities are different and for others the benefits will outweigh the compromises. YMMV.
Okay, I understand now. Just for clarity, at this stage there is one touchscreen device (the SB Touch) and it is landscape oriented, not portrait. And there are various ways to carve up the player offerings. For example, the SBC is SqueezeOS-based like the SB Radio and SB Touch. So to some degree they will continue to evolve together, even though the Radio and Touch are major departures on the hardware side (esp processors).

And I hear you about the "endangerment" with respect to 7.3.3 versus 7.4. I've moved everything in our house over to 7.4 except for the one that my wife uses pretty much exclusively. She likes 7.3.3 and doesn't know why we should have these new devices, even when Logitech gives them to me for beta testing. When I finally switch that one over I don't know if I should plan to be around to provide tech support or if I should run and hide....

TheLastMan
2009-10-05, 09:50
...at this stage there is one touchscreen device (the SB Touch) and it is landscape oriented, not portrait...

Ah, right - I thought the Radio was touch-screen as well.

I actually meant Landscape, not Portrait. I meant to highlight the difficulties of having one screen interface for the 'Radio' and 'Touch' which are landscape orientated and the Controller screen which is portrait. I have been reading that people found that the interface did not look so good on the Controller with a larger font and too much text scrolling going on.


And I hear you about the "endangerment" with respect to 7.3.3 versus 7.4. I've moved everything in our house over to 7.4 except for the one that my wife uses pretty much exclusively. She likes 7.3.3 and doesn't know why we should have these new devices, even when Logitech gives them to me for beta testing. When I finally switch that one over I don't know if I should plan to be around to provide tech support or if I should run and hide....

Yes, have read about your complex dual server system elsewhere!

For me it was very satisfying the other day to find the missus lounging on the sofa browsing my music collection via the controller to create a playlist for one of her boozy nights in with her friends (during which I retreat to the saftey of a pub). I just got the odd question such as "who are Curve? Are they any good for background music?" A question quickly answered with a short burst of 'Chinese Burn'. The Duet is certainly improving her musical education!

Before the Duet I don't think she had even looked at my CD collection, let alone listened to any of it.

She normally has no patience with gadgets. If it doesn't work first time (preferably without needing to read a manual) then it just gets tossed to one side.

For her to progress as far as compiling her own playlists is a major advance. The Squeezebox team should be proud and honoured.

Phil Leigh
2009-10-05, 10:20
I know that several people have had issues with 7.4 (and I'm trying to help a few of them). I thought I'd just post something positive.

In the last 30 mins I've been playing a 24/192 DVD-a album (Hotel California) via wi-fi to my Boom, Radio and Touch (all synced).

Absolutely rock solid - no hiccups or stuttering, no loss of responsiveness of IR or front panels or Web UI. Sync is perfect.

Server is running 7.4.1 on a 1.6Gb Sempron with 2Gb of ram. Files are on an external USB disk (NOT A NAS!) , router is 54G.

CPU is 20%, ram is 50%

My personal route to happiness:

1) use FLAC files only - with Flac tags only
2) sort out your tags - especially compilations
3) don't use iTunes integration (but MusicIP is fine)
4) AVG anti-virus
5) XP sp3

Well done all!!!