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pic
2009-09-23, 11:56
I am very interested in this radio, particularly I would like to use it as a stand alone radio (no PC connection).

Can anyone confirm me that the only format supported internally by the radio are MP3, Ogg Vorbis, AAC and WMA (no FLAC for example) ?

I am playing with SOFTSQUEEZE 3.8 on my PC and it is not able to receive this radio: http://www.radiomontecarlo.net/Radio/asx/rmcfm.asx , VLC says it is WMA2. Is it a SOFTSQUEEZE only problem ? Can anyone try to listen it using Boom ?

Many thanks to all
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andyg
2009-09-23, 12:04
Native codec support includes MP3, Vorbis, AAC, WMA, FLAC, PCM (WAV/AIFF)

andynormancx
2009-09-23, 12:19
That works fine on the Boom.

bpa
2009-09-23, 16:02
I am playing with SOFTSQUEEZE 3.8 on my PC and it is not able to receive this radio: http://www.radiomontecarlo.net/Radio/asx/rmcfm.asx , VLC says it is WMA2. Is it a SOFTSQUEEZE only problem ? Can anyone try to listen it using Boom


That is a SoftSqueeze only problem as Softsqueeze can only play MP3 and Flac natively. If you are using a non Windows based SC - install mplayer and AlienBBC plugin and it will do WMA transcoding for SOftsqueeze.

radish
2009-09-23, 16:48
I am playing with SOFTSQUEEZE 3.8 on my PC and it is not able to receive this radio: http://www.radiomontecarlo.net/Radio/asx/rmcfm.asx , VLC says it is WMA2. Is it a SOFTSQUEEZE only problem ? Can anyone try to listen it using Boom ?


Just tested it on the Radio - works fine.

pic
2009-09-24, 00:16
Native codec support includes MP3, Vorbis, AAC, WMA, FLAC, PCM (WAV/AIFF)

I am very happy to hear this.
I only do not understand very well what stated in Technical Specifications web page:

Audio formats
* MP3, FLAC, WAV, AIFF, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, AAC, Apple Lossless

Internet radio
* Support for MP3, Ogg Vorbis, AAC and WMA formatted Internet radio streams

Why they differs "Audio formats" and "Internet radio" ?

Thanks,
pic

pic
2009-09-24, 00:18
That is a SoftSqueeze only problem as Softsqueeze can only play MP3 and Flac natively. If you are using a non Windows based SC - install mplayer and AlienBBC plugin and it will do WMA transcoding for SOftsqueeze.

Yes, it runs on Ubuntu, I will do what you suggest.

Thanks,
pic

pic
2009-09-24, 00:21
Just tested it on the Radio - works fine.

OK.

Many thanks,
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bpa
2009-09-24, 00:22
Internet radio have transport protocols used to transfer the audio stream across the internet. The list implies support of the transport protocols.

For example - there are a few services which send Flac or WAV audio streams but since the transport protocol is not supported or is non standard - Flac and Wav are not shown as support Internet Audio formats.

pic
2009-09-24, 00:34
Internet radio have transport protocols used to transfer the audio stream across the internet. The list implies support of the transport protocols.

For example - there are a few services which send Flac or WAV audio streams but since the transport protocol is not supported or is non standard - Flac and Wav are not shown as support Internet Audio formats.

Ok, now I am starting to understand.
This means that I need to investigate not only which codec is used, but also which transport protocol is used by a radio to know if I will be able to listen it using SB. Is it right ?

Tjanks,
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bpa
2009-09-24, 00:41
This means that I need to investigate not only which codec is used, but also which transport protocol is used by a radio to know if I will be able to listen it using SB. Is it right ?


Yes. Most of the common formats are supported. The most common problem type is "mms".

mms is a Microsoft format for WMA. Stations have a choice of supporting mms and/or http as the transport protocol. A few have opted for just mms and mms is not supported by SB players using Squeezenetwork (the mms will work using a PC). MMS URLs are now deprecated by Microsoft for a few years but some stations are loath to change old but working systems. MMS is not supported by Windows Media Player 11.

The new players have more processing power ans capacity which means they have the potential to support more protocols/audio formats natively (i.e. can be played without a PC). The older players (e.g SB3) memory is full and so will not support more formats natively.

pic
2009-09-24, 01:18
Yes. Most of the common formats are supported. The most common problem type is "mms".

mms is a Microsoft format for WMA. Stations have a choice of supporting mms and/or http as the transport protocol. A few have opted for just mms and mms is not supported by SB players using Squeezenetwork (the mms will work using a PC). MMS URLs are now deprecated by Microsoft for a few years but some stations are loath to change old but working systems. MMS is not supported by Windows Media Player 11.

The new players have more processing power ans capacity which means they have the potential to support more protocols/audio formats natively (i.e. can be played without a PC). The older players (e.g SB3) memory is full and so will not support more formats natively.

OK. Back to my starting point: if I run "wget http://www.radiomontecarlo.net/Radio/asx/rmcfm.asx" on my PC, I get a file containing:

<ASX VERSION="3.0">
<ENTRY>
<TITLE>Radio Monte Carlo</TITLE>
<AUTHOR>Radio Monte Carlo</AUTHOR>
<COPYRIGHT></COPYRIGHT>
<REF HREF="mms://151.1.245.1/2" />
<REF HREF="http://151.1.245.1/2" />
</ENTRY>
</ASX>

This means that the station uses both mms and http as transport protocol and the player can choose one of them. This does not say anything about the codec used to encode the stream.
This also means that SB player (or Squeezeetwork server software ?) processes the .asx file to get the actual streaming URL.

Is it right ?

bpa
2009-09-24, 01:26
ASX, SMIL, M3U, RAM, PLS are all playlist formats - text files which have playable URLs.


These are read aread and processed by Squeezenetwork or SqueezeCenter. After processing - SC/SN will have created a playlist of one or more playable URLs - I think SN/SC may have to do an initial connection to station to get stream format (usually through mime type and or extension) so SC/SN can decide whether the stream can be played by the player natively or whether it needs transcoding help (only with SC).

MMS and HTTP are considered equal by SN/SC and whenever it see two identical streams - I think only one will be played and the SC/SN proble will try using http first. IF it works then SC/SN will give the playter the http URL that works. If probe fails then on SC it will try mms with transcoding support, on SN it will indicate cannot be played.

pic
2009-09-24, 01:47
ASX, SMIL, M3U, RAM, PLS are all playlist formats - text files which have playable URLs.


These are read aread and processed by Squeezenetwork or SqueezeCenter. After processing - SC/SN will have created a playlist of one or more playable URLs - I think SN/SC may have to do an initial connection to station to get stream format (usually through mime type and or extension) so SC/SN can decide whether the stream can be played by the player natively or whether it needs transcoding help (only with SC).

MMS and HTTP are considered equal by SN/SC and whenever it see two identical streams - I think only one will be played and the SC/SN proble will try using http first. IF it works then SC/SN will give the playter the http URL that works. If probe fails then on SC it will try mms with transcoding support, on SN it will indicate cannot be played.

Very clear, thanks.

btw, are you SB developer ?

bpa
2009-09-24, 02:54
Very clear, thanks.

btw, are you SB developer ?

No - but I've maintained AlienBBC (RealAudio/RTSP and SMIL playlist) plugin and added AACplus support before 7.3 so I've worked my way through a lot of SC code.

pic
2009-09-24, 04:31
Just tested it on the Radio - works fine.

As I understand better how things work, I have more questions, sorry.

Do you use SqueezeCenter or SqueezeNetwork ?
My question is if your Radio plays this stream by itself (if you use SN) or
SC is doing some transcodig to "help" the player.
In the second case, I would need to keep running SC all the time on my PC and I would not like this.

thanks,
pic

radish
2009-09-24, 06:38
Do you use SqueezeCenter or SqueezeNetwork ?

The test I did was with SC. I was planning on testing with SN as well but to be quite honest I could't find the "tune in url" function on the new beta SN site!

Dangze
2009-11-16, 03:23
Yes. Most of the common formats are supported. The most common problem type is "mms".

mms is a Microsoft format for WMA. Stations have a choice of supporting mms and/or http as the transport protocol. A few have opted for just mms and mms is not supported by SB players using Squeezenetwork (the mms will work using a PC). MMS URLs are now deprecated by Microsoft for a few years but some stations are loath to change old but working systems. MMS is not supported by Windows Media Player 11.

The new players have more processing power ans capacity which means they have the potential to support more protocols/audio formats natively (i.e. can be played without a PC). The older players (e.g SB3) memory is full and so will not support more formats natively.

Hello to all,
I just ordered a Squeezebox "classic" (not yet received...), and I am afraid now as I understand that mms radios are not supported by this equipment ! In fact, I am French, and most of French popular radios (that I want to listen in another European country) are streamed using mms protocol... Some of them have recently switched from http to mms, and I suppose they are not going to change again in the coming period !
Is there a solution for me, or shall I return my Squeezebox back to the supplier and consider buying a competitor product supporting mms radios ?

Thank you for your help and advices.

Dangze

bpa
2009-11-16, 03:53
t ! In fact, I am French, and most of French popular radios (that I want to listen in another European country) are streamed using mms protocol... Some of them have recently switched from http to mms,


First, http and mms are not mutually exclusive - often station give a mms URL and in fact they support both mms and http. It would best to post the URLs of the stations so that they can be checked they are exclusively mms.

I would find it very strange that a station change would from http to mms given that mms is not supported in newer version of Windows (and new versions of Windows Media Player) - it would imply the stations have reverted to either an old version of Windows or some other 3rd party platform.

Dangze
2009-11-16, 04:15
First, http and mms are not mutually exclusive - often station give a mms URL and in fact they support both mms and http. It would best to post the URLs of the stations so that they can be checked they are exclusively mms.

I would find it very strange that a station change would from http to mms given that mms is not supported in newer version of Windows (and new versions of Windows Media Player) - it would imply the stations have reverted to either an old version of Windows or some other 3rd party platform.

Thank you to answer so quickly !

If you have some free time, you can try the French Internet radios by searching in : Internet radios / World / Countries : France / Towns : Lyon (which is my town currently) and then trying "Europe 1" or "Nostalgie" (or other radio stations, as most of thems have "mms" streams...).

Let me know your test results.

Dangze

bpa
2009-11-16, 05:21
Both those station (e.g. nostalgie 92.9 ) play OK on an SB3 connected to mysqueezebox.com (i.e. they have http streams).

If you are using the SBS Internet Radio (i.e. Radiotime) option to find the station URL - then WMA will nearly ALWAYS be shown as mms and so it is not a definitive way to check whether a station is actually using mms.

Edit:

You do not need to change the URL from mms to http - SBS will do that automatically when trying a mms stream. It is why stations use mms URLs as players know they can replace mms (and port 1755) with http.

A benefit of http is that it gets around many firewalls as it uses http and port 80 just like a browser whereas mms is usually blocked as it uses special protocol on port 1755. So a station which only uses mms will usually lose listeners in offices etc.

Dangze
2009-11-16, 06:10
Both those station (e.g. nostalgie 92.9 ) play OK on an SB3 connected to mysqueezebox.com (i.e. they have http streams).

If you are using the SBS Internet Radio (i.e. Radiotime) option to find the station URL - then WMA will nearly ALWAYS be shown as mms and so it is not a definitive way to check whether a station is actually using mms.

Edit:

You do not need to change the URL from mms to http - SBS will do that automatically when trying a mms stream. It is why stations use mms URLs as players know they can replace mms (and port 1755) with http.

A benefit of http is that it gets around many firewalls as it uses http and port 80 just like a browser whereas mms is usually blocked as it uses special protocol on port 1755. So a station which only uses mms will usually lose listeners in offices etc.

Thank you, it's a pretty good new for me !
I will try when I receive my Squeezebox and let you know if everything is OK for me.

Thanks again !

Dangze