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Matt Wise
2009-09-03, 10:28
I posted this in the beta forum a LONG time ago... so ignore the screenshots on the device, they're a very early firmware rev. This is my Touch installed in my kitchen wall, using Power over Ethernet (with a kit from Linksys). I use it to control my other players in the house, and it works fantastic.

Matt Wise
2009-09-03, 10:28
more pics

socistep
2009-09-03, 10:32
That looks very nice ! Did you have this attached to speakers in the same room?

Matt Wise
2009-09-03, 10:37
No, I use it as a controller for all of the squeezeboxes in the
house... its not hooked up to anything for audio directly.

gfuchs
2009-09-03, 11:16
So will the Touch control a Duet receiver?
If so will it also do the initial setup of the receiver, eliminating the need for a Duet controller?
That's real nice that the Touch will use the POE adapter. (nice touch, pun intended).
Wish the Touch was available today to the great unwashed.

Matt Wise
2009-09-03, 11:20
It will indeed control any of our products -- just like the Controller
does. I *believe* it will do a setup of a Receiver, but I am not sure
if the code is in place yet.

kesey
2009-09-03, 12:39
No, I use it as a controller for all of the squeezeboxes in the
house... its not hooked up to anything for audio directly.

Does this mean that you are unable to play 24/96 flac files "natively" as the Squeezebox is unable to play 24/96 unless resampled by SOX to 24/48?

The Touch seems like a great idea/appliance, but I'd hate to have to buy 2 in order to play 24/96 into my amplifier (and thereby to have my Squeezebox 3 and Duet made redundant), in order to have the convenience of the Touch as a coffee-table/Wall-mounted controller.

Matt Wise
2009-09-03, 12:41
So yes and no, depending on the situation. For example, if my Wall-
Touch is controlling another Touch (which is currently the case), then
I can play anything that runs through the Touch natively (so 24/96).
If I'm using Wall-Touch to control a Receiver (older IP3K player, not
supporting 24/96) then no, I cannot play 24/96 audio.

What audio is playable is entirely dependent on the *player* not the
*controller*.

iPhone
2009-09-03, 12:45
Does this mean that you are unable to play 24/96 flac files "natively" as the Squeezebox is unable to play 24/96 unless resampled by SOX to 24/48?

Looks like the wrong section for this question but, if you are talking about the Touch, it does 24/96 natively just like the Transporter. No Sox needed, no resampling. The SB3 needs SOX to play 24/96 so it is resampled to 24/48.

Matt is using the Touch in the kitchen as a Whole House Squeezebox Controller which is why he isn't using the audio outs.

gorman
2009-09-04, 01:31
Two questions:

1) I don't have a Controller but... does this imply that the Touch is capable of replicating the control interface of the Controller? Like what I see with SqueezePlay?

2) Is the wall mounting kit available somewhere?

JJZolx
2009-09-04, 01:55
1) I don't have a Controller but... does this imply that the Touch is capable of replicating the control interface of the Controller? Like what I see with SqueezePlay?

Yes, it should be very similar, with some adjustments to the layout due to the different screen size and orientation.


2) Is the wall mounting kit available somewhere?

Currently? The Touch won't be available until at least December, so I'd expect the mounting kit to be available then. For just $49.99.

dave77
2009-09-04, 02:54
I love the wall mount, I was hoping for something like this but I don't think it's very cost effective unless it's wired to a stereo itself.

The Touch has wireless, is it not possible to create a wireless receiver that pairs with the Touch and plugs into a stereo like an SB3? Thus meaning the wall mount only needs power.

funkstar
2009-09-04, 03:09
The Touch has wireless, is it not possible to create a wireless receiver that pairs with the Touch and plugs into a stereo like an SB3? Thus meaning the wall mount only needs power.
Yes, of course it is, it's called a Receiver or and SB3 or even Transporter :)

dave77
2009-09-04, 03:30
Yes, of course it is, it's called a Receiver or and SB3 or even Transporter :)

:) I was thinking more of a basic wireless receiver without the SB internals eg let the Touch do all the hard work and pass the music to a receiver that's paired with it, kind of like a base-station for the Touch.

If they bundled the Receiver with the Touch at a bit of a discount that would be ideal :)

Mnyb
2009-09-04, 03:59
:) I was thinking more of a basic wireless receiver without the SB internals eg let the Touch do all the hard work and pass the music to a receiver that's paired with it, kind of like a base-station for the Touch.

If they bundled the Receiver with the Touch at a bit of a discount that would be ideal :)

The reciever *IS* that basic I can only talk ethernet/wifi recieve a music stream and obey some commands from the server, like volume.
It has no display, and it is very cheap. If you take anything away from the reciever it's not working anymore that is basic to me. (ok remove the led and button ;) )

The beauty here is that "server" is now a plethora of things a real PC of some sort or a NAS or Squeezenetwork or the new tinySC hosted on your Touch.

andynormancx
2009-09-04, 04:21
The reciever *IS* that basic I can only talk ethernet/wifi recieve a music stream and obey some commands from the server, like volume.
It has no display, and it is very cheap. If you take anything away from the reciever it's not working anymore that is basic to me. (ok remove the led and button ;) )

I think he was talking about one of those wireless transmitters/receiver that just transmit audio from one place to another. They are much more basic than a Receiver.

dave77
2009-09-04, 04:43
I think he was talking about one of those wireless transmitters/receiver that just transmit audio from one place to another. They are much more basic than a Receiver.

Yup, I guess it would still need a DAC though.

I'd love a Touch style device (same size and interface) which is just a wi-fi controller wall mounted in the same way :) hint hint :)

Mnyb
2009-09-04, 06:00
I think he was talking about one of those wireless transmitters/receiver that just transmit audio from one place to another. They are much more basic than a Receiver.

Omg these are sooo crappy, what is god with SB products are that they are not crap even if they are inexpensive ! they play music at reasonable sound-quality
all of them. I did not consider that anyone would think of such lowly devices in the concept of squeezeboxes, go back to your room ;)

gsawdy
2009-09-04, 07:55
Title says it all

dave77
2009-09-04, 07:58
Title says it all

I doubt it, even if it was the same size I don't think the SB3 stand is removable is it?

pfarrell
2009-09-04, 08:37
dave77 wrote:
> Thus meaning the wall mount only needs power.

Most of the in-wall setups that I've seen approach it the other way.
Mains power has things like electrical codes to follow.

The Touch draws very little power, so it really doesn't need to have its
power brick fed by the mains. So a cleaner install is to use PoE (Power
over Ethernet) which sends the low voltage power over the Ethernet
cable. This lets you have only one small, safe, low voltage cable to the
Touch inside the wall.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

funkstar
2009-09-04, 08:58
Will the wall mount work with the SB3 also? NM
No. Although the Touch is a similar style, and it's obvious it is from the same school of design, they are different sizes.

Also, as Dave said, the SB3 does not have a removable foot, the Touch does.

CliffC
2009-09-04, 10:17
I already have the ethernet outlet at the right spot on my kitchen wall. It's where my wireless access point plugs in to communicate with my receiver and controller. Could I just tap off of this with an ethernet splitter and power up the touch without having to run another cable?

ShutterShock
2009-09-04, 11:00
dave77 wrote:

The Touch draws very little power, so it really doesn't need to have its
power brick fed by the mains. So a cleaner install is to use PoE (Power
over Ethernet) which sends the low voltage power over the Ethernet
cable. This lets you have only one small, safe, low voltage cable to the
Touch inside the wall.

Is this method of powering in the Touch specs? I guess what I'm really asking is does using PoE invalidate the warranty in light of the fact you're not using the supplied wall wart?

Also, I couldn't find the Linksys PoE kit on line. Any other recommendations for a similar PoE kit?

Thanks.

andynormancx
2009-09-04, 11:21
Also, I couldn't find the Linksys PoE kit on line. Any other recommendations for a similar PoE kit?


Amazon have it:

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Power-Over-Ethernet-Adapter/dp/B0000Y7W98

aubuti
2009-09-04, 11:23
I already have the ethernet outlet at the right spot on my kitchen wall. It's where my wireless access point plugs in to communicate with my receiver and controller. Could I just tap off of this with an ethernet splitter and power up the touch without having to run another cable?
The "ethernet splitter" has to be a power-over-ethernet (POE) adapter. An ordinary ethernet switch will not work. You also have to choose a POE adapter that outputs the correct voltage for the Touch.

aubuti
2009-09-04, 11:26
Amazon have it:

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Power-Over-Ethernet-Adapter/dp/B0000Y7W98
Except for the text that says:
Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

pfarrell
2009-09-04, 11:29
aubuti wrote:
> Except for the text that says:
> -*Currently unavailable.*

Well, since the Touch is "currently unavailable" it seems like a great
match.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

andynormancx
2009-09-04, 11:48
Except for the text that says:
Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-POES5-5-volt-Ethernet-Splitter/dp/B000E6Q1P8/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1252090032&sr=1-16

Kiwi
2009-09-04, 11:52
Except for the text that says:
Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

There are plenty of other places to get this. Use pricegrabber.com and search for "linksys WAPPOE"

ShutterShock
2009-09-04, 16:54
This is my Touch installed in my kitchen wall, using Power over Ethernet (with a kit from Linksys).Extremely interested in replicating your installation using PoE and was hoping you could answer a couple of questions.

As I understand it, for a PoE installation you need an Ethernet switch designed to deliver PoE. That part I get, but what happens when you connect other devices to the PoE equipped Ethernet switch? Is the power diverted somehow so the equipment at the other end (computers etc.) doesn’t get damaged?

Also, it looks as though the Touch is spec’d at 5 volts and PoE is nominally rated at 12-15 volts. How is the Touch able handle the extra voltage?

Thanks.

iPhone
2009-09-04, 18:19
Extremely interested in replicating your installation using PoE and was hoping you could answer a couple of questions.

As I understand it, for a PoE installation you need an Ethernet switch designed to deliver PoE. That part I get, but what happens when you connect other devices to the PoE equipped Ethernet switch? Is the power diverted somehow so the equipment at the other end (computers etc.) doesn’t get damaged?

Also, it looks as though the Touch is spec’d at 5 volts and PoE is nominally rated at 12-15 volts. How is the Touch able handle the extra voltage?

Thanks.

It doesn't. Look at the first picture in this Post (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=454576&postcount=2). The big "5V" on the adapter means its a 5 volt DC model. You buy/order the Linksys 5VDC POE kit.

agillis
2009-09-04, 18:42
The Linksys 5 Volt Power Over Ethernet Adapter Kit has been discontinued. They only have the 12v kit now. So if you want to power your SqueezeBox with POE you have two options.

If you already have a POE ethernet switch you can buy just the SqueezeBox end POE dongle for $25.

http://astore.amazon.com/vort-20/detail/B000E6Q1P8

If you don't have a POE switch you can buy a kit with a POE injector from D-link for $40.

http://astore.amazon.com/vort-20/detail/B0002MH3HO

technobear
2009-09-05, 05:08
Currently? The Touch won't be available until at least December, so I'd expect the mounting kit to be available then. For just $49.99.

$49.99 :o

For a single injection-moulded piece of plastic!

It's not worth 50 cents in terms of what it is.

Maximum retail would be about $5 - anything more is a complete rip-off.

I'll be making my own - I reckon about $1 a piece!

gfuchs
2009-09-05, 06:53
A little more do-it yourself approach would be this.
http://www.eidusa.com/Electronics_Kits_PoE_injector.htm

You would use the Logitech PS.

ziggyb63
2009-09-06, 06:02
$49.99 :o

For a single injection-moulded piece of plastic!

It's not worth 50 cents in terms of what it is.

Have not seen it, but gotta agree here, especially if people are starting to spray-paint it 'cos it only comes in one color.

ziggyb63
2009-09-06, 06:26
I know you have this set up wired with PoE, but do you know what the implications of wall mounting this on wireless Ethernet connectivity? I am sure this is pretty much location dependent, but was wondering if you experimented at all?

lesliew
2009-09-06, 09:52
There are a few online retailers still carrying the 5V, WAPPOE units

Mark Lanctot
2009-09-08, 08:57
I know you have this set up wired with PoE, but do you know what the implications of wall mounting this on wireless Ethernet connectivity?

Say that again? Wireless Ethernet? I'm confused.

If you are powering it with PoE, might as well wire it too, there's Ethernet mere inches from the jack.

technobear
2009-09-08, 10:56
Say that again? Wireless Ethernet? I'm confused.

If you are powering it with PoE, might as well wire it too, there's Ethernet mere inches from the jack.

I suspect he means 'WiFi' :)

Mark Lanctot
2009-09-08, 11:03
Oh, if Touch is mounted in-wall, what's the impact on wireless performance?

Good question. I suspect it won't be much in a current plastic junction box, but an older metal junction box might make a good Faraday cage. :-)

iPhone
2009-09-08, 19:44
Oh, if Touch is mounted in-wall, what's the impact on wireless performance?

Good question. I suspect it won't be much in a current plastic junction box, but an older metal junction box might make a good Faraday cage. :-)

I never use metal boxes when WiFi or Ethernet are involved. I use a low voltage plastic box.

I am of the opinion that one should not use a metal box. This is a low voltage device and generally as such, a plastic box should be used. I can't speak for everybody's codes so what color plastic box one uses would be up to what their codes require.

Plastic is less likely if at all to nick a cable jacket, where a rough edge of a metal knock-out is probably more likely to.

pfarrell
2009-09-08, 20:08
iPhone wrote:
> I never use metal boxes when WiFi or Ethernet are involved. I use a low
> voltage plastic box.

I usually just use "mud rings" which are metal sheets with a hole to
pull the wires and screw on the cover. In a couple of places, I use the
blue plastic boxes.

WiFi and faraday cages is not a good match.

If you run Cat5 and PoE, then it won't matter much.

> everybody's codes

I am not a registered electrician or EE, don't rely on my advice and set
your house on fire.

Here in Virginia, they don't use metal boxes for anything under 240V.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

Matt Wise
2009-09-11, 07:06
Over in california, we dont really use metal boxes... when we rebuilt our house last year we ended up using metal boxes in the garage -- but not due to code, but rather that they were a bit easier to mount flush with plywood (sheer wall throughout the garage.. dont ask).

All of our boxes are plastic - the only diff between the 'high' and 'low' voltage ones is whether they have a back or not (and the color).

gsawdy
2009-09-19, 06:54
I usually just use "mud rings" which are metal sheets with a hole to
pull the wires and screw on the cover. In a couple of places, I use the
blue plastic boxes.

WiFi and faraday cages is not a good match.

If you run Cat5 and PoE, then it won't matter much.
.........
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

How can you say that? Double color blind testing has confirmed that blue boxes turn the midrange into the equivalent of day-old, overcooked instant oatmeal. If you want the most neutral sound you must use green boxes. Athough bass heads usually prefer the slam that results from red boxes.

You are right that using CAT5 will substantally reduce these effects.

Yours in pixie dust, George