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bnema
2009-09-03, 07:24
Now that he touch has been announced, what will happen to the Classic? Will there be a price drop? Will it be discontinued?

Siduhe
2009-09-03, 07:31
The Touch replaces the Classic which will be phased out (as stock runs down):

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=454328&highlight=classic+matrix#post454328

Browny
2009-09-03, 09:17
I should have guessed....there was a coded message from Sean and Dean on the "Signature Edition" of the SB3 (classic)....

"Is there Something I should Know".

Spooky!!

iPhone
2009-09-03, 10:40
I should have guessed....there was a coded message from Sean and Dean on the "Signature Edition" of the SB3 (classic)....

"Is there Something I should Know".

Spooky!!

Look at the picture again. The front panel is the key. It was the last chance to buy a Slim Devices labeled SB3. All the ones after that have Logitech on the front. It wasn't some "code" or "sign", it was the Signature Edition Slim Devices Logo'd SB3.

All future stock was going to be Logitech Logo'd.

aubuti
2009-09-03, 10:47
Look at the picture again. The front panel is the key. It was the last chance to buy a Slim Devices labeled SB3. All the ones after that have Logitech on the front. It wasn't some "code" or "sign", it was the Signature Edition Slim Devices Logo'd SB3.

All future stock was going to be Logitech Logo'd.
You're right that it was the last chance to buy an SD-labeled SB3, but actually the Signature Edition was introduced long *after* Logitech-branded SB3s had started shipping. The official line was that they "found" a bunch of SD-branded SB3s (or maybe just SD faceplates) lying around and decided to do the signature thing.

Browny
2009-09-03, 10:47
Look at the picture again. The front panel is the key. It was the last chance to buy a Slim Devices labeled SB3. All the ones after that have Logitech on the front. It wasn't some "code" or "sign", it was the Signature Edition Slim Devices Logo'd SB3.

All future stock was going to be Logitech Logo'd.

Dude...I know that. I was trying to have a bit of a giggle!!

MeSue
2009-09-03, 10:56
Dude...I know that. I was trying to have a bit of a giggle!!

I giggled! Or maybe it was a chuckle...

dBerriff
2009-09-03, 12:20
Apart from the doubled sample rate provision I cannot see any real advantage to the Touch over the Classic, especially as the screen is so small for its likely positioning.

Now that I have been spoilt by remote control of replay volume let alone track selection, what is the point? I'm not going walk backwards and forwards all evening as the mood for different tracks takes me. I will stick with my Classic SB3 as the large text option (ageing eyes!) and my iPod Touch with iPeng give me all the feedback and control I need.

iPhone
2009-09-03, 12:25
Dude...I know that. I was trying to have a bit of a giggle!!

Giggle excepted. ;=} And a nice addition to the thread digging up that picture. And I was completely fooled thinking you were serious. Doh!

JJZolx
2009-09-03, 12:33
Now that I have been spoilt by remote control of replay volume let alone track selection, what is the point? I'm not going walk backwards and forwards all evening as the mood for different tracks takes me. I will stick with my Classic SB3 as the large text option (ageing eyes!) and my iPod Touch with iPeng give me all the feedback and control I need.

Depends a little on how easily impressed you are by new technology just for the sake of new technology. The touch screen and color display will probably sell more retail products, but may not be reason enough to move to the new player. Although there's a massive amount of new software involved and being written as we speak, for most existing Squeezebox users the Touch is very much an evolutionary product. No reason to part with your SB3.

Who knows, there may even be a big demand for the SB Classic once it's discontinued. Audio-wise, apart from native 24/96 decoding, there isn't a lot that the Touch does that a Squeezebox 2 didn't do several years ago.

Mark Miksis
2009-09-03, 12:46
Now that I have been spoilt by remote control of replay volume let alone track selection, what is the point? I'm not going walk backwards and forwards all evening as the mood for different tracks takes me. I will stick with my Classic SB3 as the large text option (ageing eyes!) and my iPod Touch with iPeng give me all the feedback and control I need.

Some people simply don't like a touch screen and won't use it. That's fine. But please note that the Touch is the same price as the Classic and comes with an IR remote so it doesn't cost you anything to not use it as a touch screen. The goal is for the IR-mode large text display to be usable from at least 10 feet away.

mparry
2009-09-03, 14:01
Lets not forget the usb/sd card inputs on touch.

iPhone
2009-09-03, 14:22
Lets not forget the usb/sd card inputs on touch.

Lets not. And also that it is a "Smart" NMP and can stand on its own once Slim SC is released for those that don't want a Server running all the time. Hey, I am going to start using that acronym until the official name comes out: SSC for Slim Squeeze Center only problem is Logitech is moving on with SBS (Squeeze Box Server) so I might need to use SSBS instead.

And you won't be biased in the least would you, Matt? ;=}

autopilot
2009-09-03, 16:12
Lets not. And also that it is a "Smart" NMP and can stand on its own once Slim SC is released for those that don't want a Server running all the time. Hey, I am going to start using that acronym until the official name comes out: SSC for Slim Squeeze Center only problem is Logitech is moving on with SBS (Squeeze Box Server) so I might need to use SSBS instead.

And you won't be biased in the least would you, Matt? ;=}

LOL, i still think 'Squeezebox Server lite' is better :)

Kiwi
2009-09-03, 16:16
Giggle excepted. ;=} And a nice addition to the thread digging up that picture. And I was completely fooled thinking you were serious. Doh!

Thanks to iPhone, I chuckled twice.

iPhone
2009-09-03, 16:33
LOL, i still think 'Squeezebox Server lite' is better :)

Yeah AP, but that would be SSL and somebody might think they need a certificate or that the Touch uses Secure Sockets Layer (SSL). ;=}

dBerriff
2009-09-03, 17:03
Some people simply don't like a touch screen and won't use it. That's fine. But please note that the Touch is the same price as the Classic and comes with an IR remote so it doesn't cost you anything to not use it as a touch screen. The goal is for the IR-mode large text display to be usable from at least 10 feet away.

I love my iPod Touch and would have an iPhone if I was still in business. Not liking touch screens is not the point. I just want it in my hand, not plugged into my HiFi.

"What is the point" was actually a question - I am prepared to be convinced, but all the other features could have been added to the Classic or the Duet.

The thing is, I really like my Classic and my Boom. They have transformed the way I listen to music, taken with SqueezeCenter. I like the big text option on the Classic. When I was having serious problems with my eyesight that feature was invaluable. I will take another look at the Touch and perhaps it can provide the same functionality and accessibility as the Classic. If the pricing is identical then it is clear that the Classic is doomed as has already been said.

autopilot
2009-09-03, 17:06
Yeah AP, but that would be SSL and somebody might think they need a certificate or that the Touch uses Secure Sockets Layer (SSL). ;=}

Yeah, sorry i forgot it's all about the acronyms :)

EDIT: Ha, no, your wrong! It would be SBSL :)

dBerriff
2009-09-03, 17:53
Lets not forget the usb/sd card inputs on touch.

I have a network, broadband access, SqueezeCenter, ripping software, loads of hard disk space and a computer to run it all. Without this infrastructure the Squeeze concept does not really work. It also tends to render the USB/SD slots redundant, unless I am once again missing something. I'm all for giving options but the Touch would, on the basis of what I have been told here, leave me with a touch screen, DAC, USB slot and SD slot that I would not use. So, I probably would forget the usb/sd card inputs.

Gosh, I really do sound like a grumpy old man tonight. I just feel there are some solutions to rather marginal requirements here.

Mark Miksis
2009-09-03, 18:07
I have a network, broadband access, SqueezeCenter, ripping software, loads of hard disk space and a computer to run it all. Without this infrastructure the Squeeze concept does not really work. It also tends to render the USB/SD slots redundant, unless I am once again missing something. I'm all for giving options but the Touch would, on the basis of what I have been told here, leave me with a touch screen, DAC, USB slot and SD slot that I would not use. So, I probably would forget the usb/sd card inputs.

Gosh, I really do sound like a grumpy old man tonight. I just feel there are some solutions to rather marginal requirements here.

This may fall into your "marginal" category, but...

I have had many occasions where a friend would come over for a party or some other get together with some music on a USB stick. Having to copy those files onto my server and trigger a rescan was a pain. Now I can just plug the stick into the USB slot.

JJZolx
2009-09-03, 18:12
Maybe what you're missing is the new direction being taken by Logitech. If they continue to sell players only to folks like you and I then they'll probably have to shut down the Streaming Business Unit as unprofitable and write off the acquisition of Slim Devices as a mistake. They need to sell products to people who can't figure out how to use email and those who think they're saving the planet by not running a server. If they can sell $300 music players to people who only listen to Rhapsody and Last.fm and the 35 CDs that they own, then they'll make money. If that segment of the market becomes the bulk of their sales, then they'll make a lot of money.

Our only hope is that in the process of shifting their focus, it doesn't shift so far that it makes our usage model so far out of the ordinary that we're seen as an unimportant market. So far, it doesn't look like that will happen any time soon, although the increased focus on SqueezeNetwork is a hint of things to come.

At least we can be 100% certain of one thing: The players that we have today will continue to work with the software that we have today (excluding eventual device failure). Right now, even though there are 100's of improvements that could be made to the software, it does 99% of what it needs to do - play my music collection on my Squeezebox players. If/when it all goes south, I'll just freeze at the version of the software that I like. When some new player from another company comes along that I like better, then all the SD and Logitech gear gets sold and we move on.

maggior
2009-09-03, 18:38
I think you hit the nail on the head JJZolx. Though I'm excited to see new products being released, I feel no need to purchase any of these at this point. There are no compelling features for me. These are evolutionary products rather than revolutionary.

A fancy touch screen will certainly draw more attention from browsing customers in the retail outlet.

Hopefully users like us, who made up the user market that helped start the entire thing, won't be left behind while the "joe sixpack" class of users become the driving force for future product direction.

iPhone
2009-09-03, 19:21
I have a network, broadband access, SqueezeCenter, ripping software, loads of hard disk space and a computer to run it all. Without this infrastructure the Squeeze concept does not really work. It also tends to render the USB/SD slots redundant, unless I am once again missing something. I'm all for giving options but the Touch would, on the basis of what I have been told here, leave me with a touch screen, DAC, USB slot and SD slot that I would not use. So, I probably would forget the usb/sd card inputs.

Gosh, I really do sound like a grumpy old man tonight. I just feel there are some solutions to rather marginal requirements here.

OK, then you don't need one. So what is your point? Again remembering that you have already talked yourself out of needing one.

Others will need this and more importantly want it. New users now only need to have tunes on a USB drive (which they probably already have) if they want to join the party and not have a server running full or part time. This unit opens all kinds of doors. Squeezebox Home System Controller mounted on a wall. Integration with home automation. How cool would it be to have the door bell ring on any Squeezebox that is on (granted I really don't want to know kids are at the door selling candy or magazines). Email alerts, Facebook, Flickr, and other video sent to the display.

Being open source, possible Apps available, a usable USB port, and a "Smart" player that is also a Controller, ones imagination coupled with current technology are about the only limits to what one can have networked together in the home using Touch!

pablolie
2009-09-03, 20:48
I love the more colorful display that shows album art. I think a few years ago I voiced that as a wish for a next gen SB. And now here it is.

I wish Ligitech offered a "cash for squeezethings" incentive program. At this point in time I am overinvested (see my sig), and while I'd like to upgrade my main system to a touch, well, it seems frivolous just for the color display (I'd keep using the remote). But there is a touch in my future. And I would not have minded having the Radio's display on the Booms I own...

The products are headed in an awesome direction - engaging more and more senses. Album art is the next frontier. An OLED tablet controller? :-)

MeSue
2009-09-03, 20:55
Hey, I am going to start using that acronym until the official name comes out: SSC for Slim Squeeze Center only problem is Logitech is moving on with SBS (Squeeze Box Server) so I might need to use SSBS instead.

I think we should call it SlimServer! Wait... deja vu.

Goodsounds
2009-09-03, 22:49
Many interesting comments. I see your points, JJ, and agree in large part. If Joe Average has 35 CDs to listen to, they're more likely to be on a PC hard drive than on a USB device. I don't know if that particular capability adds much for that target buyer. But maybe it does. It's a way to perhaps avoid Wifi-hell for a lot of users. For sure the touch screen and cool display will be an attention grabber.

We all hope these products and the people associated with them have nothing but continued success.

dBerriff
2009-09-04, 01:41
Maybe what you're missing is the new direction being taken by Logitech. If they continue to sell players only to folks like you and I then they'll probably have to shut down the Streaming Business Unit as unprofitable and write off the acquisition of Slim Devices as a mistake. They need to sell products to people who can't figure out how to use email and those who think they're saving the planet by not running a server. If they can sell $300 music players to people who only listen to Rhapsody and Last.fm and the 35 CDs that they own, then they'll make money. If that segment of the market becomes the bulk of their sales, then they'll make a lot of money.

I agree entirely. I have just spent 30 minutes explaining why and this forum logged me out and I lost it all. I will be brief this time and type it in in smaller chunks.

- We have front-end, back-end system.

- Logitech have the front-end brilliantly sorted out. The Classic, the Boom, the Duet - world beaters. The new products make this even better. 10x ? 100x ? I don't know but now I have been told the Touch is the same price as the Classic then that is good news.

- the back end is a nightmare for some users and just not worth the bother for all too many others.

- I show off my Classic and Boom to anyone who listen. I have demonstrated the Boom to my College classes as one example of what you can do with wireless networking. Nobody, not even my daughters who fully understand my passion, have then gone out and bought one. Small sample I agree, but disappointing.

to be continued...

autopilot
2009-09-04, 01:41
I have a network, broadband access, SqueezeCenter, ripping software, loads of hard disk space and a computer to run it all. Without this infrastructure the Squeeze concept does not really work. It also tends to render the USB/SD slots redundant, unless I am once again missing something. I'm all for giving options but the Touch would, on the basis of what I have been told here, leave me with a touch screen, DAC, USB slot and SD slot that I would not use. So, I probably would forget the usb/sd card inputs.

Gosh, I really do sound like a grumpy old man tonight. I just feel there are some solutions to rather marginal requirements here.

Fair enough, me too in many ways. But I was at a friends last week and i asked to use their PC to check my email. So i wondered off to their spare room to find the PC was gone, only for them to point me to their shinny new laptop. I then realised that i actually dont know anyone with a desktop PC any more. Now most of these people have always expressed an interest in getting a Squeezebox, but it's far less likely they will now they have laptops. None of them want the expense or hassle of a NAS, and don't even know what they are anyway. It's hard enough for them to get thier head around the whole streaming thing, a NAS just 'aint going to happen. And running SC on a laptop is not a great prospect, as laptops get moved around and they dont want to leave them only the time (WOL not an option, as they are 99% run wirelessly and on battery a lot). They also just often just hook the laptop up to their hifi for music (Spotify mostly). Desktops are what most people run SC on, but they are a dying bread. I think TinySC could be the key to the Squeezebox line's long term future. Not just a great idea, but possibly essential.

dBerriff
2009-09-04, 01:55
Until Logitech offer more support with the back-end I just don't see things moving forward, although I desperately want them to. I have spent a lot of time and money basing my music system around what I will call the Squeeze solution because it worked for me better and more cost effectively than anything else available at the time.

- Most people I know use iTunes or Windows Media Player. As I own a MacBook and iMac I am more familiar with iTunes.

- The iTunes/iPod/dock covers the full replay chain up to the amp/speakers point. It works, it is usable.

- From the UK perspective the likes of the Brennan JB7 at the entry level, and Naim and Meridian at the high-end are providing turnkey solutions for CD owners.

- The cries for help in these forums, given that any forum presents a distorted view of reality, provide plenty of evidence that the parts of the capture/replay chain outside of Logitech's control provide plenty of problems.

- World-beating front-end products do not change any of the back end problems or perceptions.

Sike
2009-09-04, 02:01
Some people simply don't like a touch screen and won't use it. That's fine. But please note that the Touch is the same price as the Classic and comes with an IR remote so it doesn't cost you anything to not use it as a touch screen. The goal is for the IR-mode large text display to be usable from at least 10 feet away.

Not over here in Switzerland. The touch is $100 more than the classic :( They are starting to get in to Sonos pricing...

dBerriff
2009-09-04, 02:21
We are witnessing a revolution in the way music is recorded, distributed and replayed. Someone companies are going to get the replay part of it right and make a fortune. The following comments are from a UK/GB perspective.

Apple have done a really good job in my opinion. They have covered just about the full replay cycle and it "just works", on the whole. Usability is paramount and the audiophiles may scoff but it is what people I know use. If we need background music between sets at a gig we take an iPod. Job done, as they say. If I want a setlist to practice to, I turn to iTunes. Lossy audio is quite good enough for these requirements. I have thought about using iTunes for everything and would if it supported FLAC. iTunes does of course try to lock you into the Apple business model. Everyone has to make a living so I fully understand the need for this.

The Brennan JB7 looks to have done another brilliant job of covering the replay chain for CD and digital audio owners. As a "closed box" solution (again, many experts will turn up their noses at this point) I would really like to try one. Now, in my humble layman's opinion, this or the Vortex Box are closer to the solutions Logitech really do need to adopt. Edit: the Brennan also answers Autopilot's observation that desktops are a dying breed (as I type away on my MacBook).

Naim and Meridian are providing turnkey solutions for the high-end. I'm not sure what Sonos is doing - I have never got around to investigating their systems.

So I agree with the original quote. Do I like my Logitech Classic? Yes - it is almost the perfect solution for me. As is the Boom. Would I recommend to an acquaintance asking for advice? No, unless I was on the spot to set it all up for them. Sorry, again.

Chippy
2009-09-04, 23:09
But please note that the Touch is the same price as the Classic and comes with an IR remote so it doesn't cost you anything to not use it as a touch screen.

UK prices according to the Logitech site:

Squeezebox Classic: 179
Squeezebox Touch: 259

That's not even close, guys!

Chippy

Mnyb
2009-09-04, 23:34
UK prices according to the Logitech site:

Squeezebox Classic: 179
Squeezebox Touch: 259

That's not even close, guys!

Chippy

sssh most likely outcome classic price is going up in europe ;)

Same on logitech Swedish site touch is more expensive than classic.
Is not that "same price as classic" policy worked trough the whole of logitech, serious marketing mistake ?

dBerriff
2009-09-05, 01:05
UK prices according to the Logitech site:

Squeezebox Classic: 179
Squeezebox Touch: 259

That's not even close, guys!

Chippy

I took the pricing on trust from a post made here. You are right, it is not even close.

For the first time I am starting to file uneasy about all this. I read somewhere that the Touch software is being developed using Lua, the same development language as for the Controller. Looking around the forums here, this is supposed to fill me with confidence? I really thought at one time Logitech were going to dominate this sector.

Since I have switched to an outboard DAC, this leaves the Squeezebox filling a relatively minor role that I could, with a bit of library revision, just use my Apple TV or Airport Express for. I lose the display but my iPod Touch works reliably as a controller. iTunes is the easiest way I have found of managing and maintaining a digital library. Shame it does not support FLAC and Accurate Rip though.

In fact, it is the superb Boom that keeps me committed to SqueezeCenter technology.

Phil Leigh
2009-09-05, 01:17
I took the pricing on trust from a post made here. You are right, it is not even close.

For the first time I am starting to file uneasy about all this. I read somewhere that the Touch software is being developed using Lua, the same development language as for the Controller. Looking around the forums here, this is supposed to fill me with confidence? I really thought at one time Logitech were going to dominate this sector.

Since I have switched to an outboard DAC, this leaves the Squeezebox filling a relatively minor role that I could, with a bit of library revision, just use my Apple TV or Airport Express for. I lose the display but my iPod Touch works reliably as a controller. iTunes is the easiest way I have found of managing and maintaining a digital library. Shame it does not support FLAC and Accurate Rip though.

In fact, it is the superb Boom that keeps me committed to SqueezeCenter technology.

So far I have not experienced anything with the Touch that is similar to the issues some have had with the Controller. Despite the development language, the reality is that it is very nearly as stable as the Classic or Boom.


I think you are worrying unnecessarily. By December I'm confident it will be rock solid. There may be a few niggles with the UI and the embedded TinySC, but as a much-more sophisticated direct replacement for a Classic it's working now.

autopilot
2009-09-05, 01:56
So far I have not experienced anything with the Touch that is similar to the issues some have had with the Controller. Despite the development language, the reality is that it is very nearly as stable as the Classic or Boom.


I think you are worrying unnecessarily. By December I'm confident it will be rock solid. There may be a few niggles with the UI and the embedded TinySC, but as a much-more sophisticated direct replacement for a Classic it's working now.

I agree, even early beta's have been more stable than i often found the controller even after release, in terms of connection issues.

279 is a bit expensive for the UK, UK pricing is an issue. That said, the SB3 was the price when it first came out.

Craig
2009-09-05, 02:01
Yeah, sorry i forgot it's all about the acronyms :)

EDIT: Ha, no, your wrong! It would be SBSL :)

You can't have that - it's an FLA not a TLA :)

Craig

dBerriff
2009-09-05, 02:02
I'm spending too much time on this so this is my last post on this topic.

To be honest I don't really care if the Touch works or not - I am not going to buy one as my SB 3 does all I need, and some things that I don't need since I moved to an external DAC. I do care about being patronised with soothing noises about if using the touch screen is too hard for me then you don't have to use it and it isn't going to cost any more... and then find it is.

Touch or not is the wrong issue. I teach Web Development and have taught Human Computer Interaction to degree and adult day class level. This does not give any special right to pronounce on these matters or have any greater authority than the next man but it does mean that I have spent some time reading around usability issues, discussing it with my students and observing how different people react to digital technologies. The techies love it because it gives authority and jobs (I am not knocking techies - in many ways I am one).

Everyone else sits there thinking why does it have to be this hard? (IP, Subnet mask, WEP, WPA, SSID, gateway, DNS, DHCP, FLAC, MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, and on it goes). They want iTunes/Window Media Player and something like this:

http://brennan.co.uk/

In my humble opinion, Logitech can fiddle around all they want with the front-end (and I believe they already have the best solutions) but if the ripping/tagging/WiFi/distribution back-end stays as it is then the various Squeeze devices will remain a mail-order only (I speak for the UK) niche product.

Of course Logitech may have the killer back-end product in development right now but are just unable to talk about it. I hope so. In all my dealings with family, friends, staff, students and musicians over the last few year I have not met any one else who would buy into the Slim/Logitech music replay technology. I assume they all felt it was more bother than it was worth.

Right, I'm off to re-rip my copy of Emilie Autumn's Enchant because yet again I have found something weird going on with the tags. This doesn't happen in iTunes.

EowynCarter
2009-09-05, 02:33
As a new commmer i like touch better; Mainly for the usb et sd ports :)
Boom, if it had this, would be my way to go.

Being able to put music on something that rely on network connexion.

Can the touch usb port be used with usb speaker ? Would be great to have auto powered speakers.

lrossouw
2009-09-05, 04:05
Can the touch usb port be used with usb speaker ? Would be great to have auto powered speakers.

I read somewhere that one of the beta testers was using speakers that get power from USB with his touch. I presume they still use line-out for sound though.

andynormancx
2009-09-05, 04:06
I read somewhere that one of the beta testers was using speakers that get power from USB with his touch. I presume they still use line-out for sound though.

I believe they said they were using USB for audio as well.

morris_minor
2009-09-05, 05:27
In my humble opinion, Logitech can fiddle around all they want with the front-end (and I believe they already have the best solutions) but if the ripping/tagging/WiFi/distribution back-end stays as it is then the various Squeeze devices will remain a mail-order only (I speak for the UK) niche product.


I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head here.

Visitors who are really impressed with my Squeeze setup - sound quality, convenience etc - glaze over when the talk turns to networks, ripping and tagging. "I think I'll stick to playing CDs" is the usual response - and this from people who are (otherwise) intelligent and well able to cope, but just don't want the "hassle". For computer literate types who like tinkering with stuff anyway, it's no big deal. But a consumer product that demands a committment like this is never going to hit the mainstream.

This is probably why the Touch can play from USB etc. It's moving the traditional Squeeze goalposts, but is the only way Logitech will grow the business. Us "early adopters" will just have to hope the goalposts don't move to a different pitch entirely.

Squeezed_Rotel
2009-09-05, 06:21
I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head here.

Visitors who are really impressed with my Squeeze setup - sound quality, convenience etc - glaze over when the talk turns to networks, ripping and tagging. "I think I'll stick to playing CDs" is the usual response - and this from people who are (otherwise) intelligent and well able to cope, but just don't want the "hassle". For computer literate types who like tinkering with stuff anyway, it's no big deal. But a consumer product that demands a committment like this is never going to hit the mainstream.

I strive to avoid mainstream anything, this to me is the best part of the Squeeze products to date. Niche market is where I hope Logitech makes their biggest commitment going forward. I do however understand that the "business" come first.

kmr
2009-09-05, 11:11
In my humble opinion, Logitech can fiddle around all they want with the front-end (and I believe they already have the best solutions) but if the ripping/tagging/WiFi/distribution back-end stays as it is then the various Squeeze devices will remain a mail-order only (I speak for the UK) niche product.


I think that just PLAYING MUSIC AT ANYTHING ABOVE LOW FIDELITY is a niche market right now. For the most part, people are listening to low-fi all-in-one stereo systems, either via CDs or by plugging in their iPods, or maybe playing music back from CDs or iPod on their $299 home-theater-in-a-box system. Few people have the patience to either buy or hook up even a modest hi-fidelity (note I am NOT using the oft-pejorative term "audiophile") system. So I think that the market for any network music player is somewhat limited. That's why the iTunes integration is so important - most people who have digital music collections only have them because they wanted to get their existing CD collection onto their iPods.

I think that the Radio in particular may be the breakout product; it's cheap enough ($199) so that people will buy it without much agony. As long as SqueezeCenter's iTunes integration continues to work reasonably well, it will not be a big effort. Then they'll start figuring out what they are missing and start looking at the Touch, Boom, etc.

toby10
2009-09-06, 08:54
As a new commmer i like touch better; Mainly for the usb et sd ports :)
Boom, if it had this, would be my way to go.

Being able to put music on something that rely on network connexion.

Can the touch usb port be used with usb speaker ? Would be great to have auto powered speakers.

No, Touch's USB is input only. To use with powered speakers you would use the Touch's outputs (L/R, Digital Coax, Optical, mini-Plug). I use the Touch with AudioEngine A5's via the 3.5 mm mini-plug output.

autopilot
2009-09-06, 09:14
No, Touch's USB is input only. To use with powered speakers you would use the Touch's outputs (L/R, Digital Coax, Optical, mini-Plug). I use the Touch with AudioEngine A5's via the 3.5 mm mini-plug output.

someone on the beta test has used a usb dac. But i dont think it will support this out of the box and required some 'hacking'.

funkstar
2009-09-06, 10:10
No, Touch's USB is input only. To use with powered speakers you would use the Touch's outputs (L/R, Digital Coax, Optical, mini-Plug). I use the Touch with AudioEngine A5's via the 3.5 mm mini-plug output.
The Touch has a full USB implementation and is running Linux so really anything is possible. USB DACs have been tried, keyboard and mice work out of the box (the very early software had the mouse pointed visible at all times), USB graphics adapters are also possible so are web cams. As Autopilot said, it's just a case of someone putting together the drivers for the device and creating an Applet to control it and enable the functionality inside SqueezeOS.

aubuti
2009-09-06, 11:19
I use the Touch with AudioEngine A5's via the 3.5 mm mini-plug output.
Isn't that a headphone output, which presumably includes a headphone amp? I would think you would get much better audio quality by connecting the A5s to the line level RCA analog outputs using a Y-connector. That is definitely true for the SB2 and SB3.

lrossouw
2009-09-06, 18:30
The Touch has a full USB implementation and is running Linux so really anything is possible. USB DACs have been tried, keyboard and mice work out of the box (the very early software had the mouse pointed visible at all times), USB graphics adapters are also possible so are web cams. As Autopilot said, it's just a case of someone putting together the drivers for the device and creating an Applet to control it and enable the functionality inside SqueezeOS.

Oh my hat! People are going to go balistic with uses for it. I can imagine plugging in my mp3player to sync to my music right there in the lounge.

Webcam + mic = skype on the touch?
USB -> tv = big screen touch?

Looks very exciting.

Pale Blue Ego
2009-09-06, 21:38
Hopefully users like us, who made up the user market that helped start the entire thing, won't be left behind while the "joe sixpack" class of users become the driving force for future product direction.

Well, a lot of people do carry music and photos on USB drives and SD cards, so it's a useful feature. It also means the player itself is running a server, which is a feature many longtime users have wanted. As is 24/96 playback, a color screen, etc. There's nothing on the Touch that hasn't been requested by this community many many times.

Mnyb
2009-09-06, 22:15
Yes the Touch is a leap forward hardware wise very good in fact excellent hardware it exceeds my expectations by a wide margin for "SB4".
It has more native formats to, less transcoding and radiostream issues.
In short the upgrade we all wanted I'm getting it for the 24/96 .
The tweak potential is enormous with linux onboard.

But mr dBerriff has a point.

The server backend has some really weak spots even if it some instances is extremely good the basic stuff is excellent it gets your music to the player.

even if you discard the cd rip/network stuff as things you have to know to have a life these day's, like being an illiterate was a major problem in when newspapers where the hot new media.

I have to admit that i learned networking when i got my first SB that's because it was the first time i had more than one networked device at home. I probably had to go trough the same learning curve if got another device for another purpose so this is not an exclusive SB problem it hits whoever is "first" now I'm getting ip telephony too. So running cat5 and crimping contacts will be as common as connecting extension cords or changing fuse in the fuse box .

Anyway you can have Music-IP if you want to but it takes serious wizardry to set up Logitech simply *must* do a system similar to appple genuis and make it a standard part of the system.

Also a lot the very nice stuff erland has done for community via his excellent plugins is a *must be standard* but in a simplified form, especially no non standard tag hacking required.

And the very weak playlist creation it still not possible to edit and build playlist without a chosen player to build it on. You cant even save changes to playlist with the controller you have to scroll trough every letter and save it again
The interfaces available are crude, a really nice playlist editor of some kind is also a *must do now* .

Edit. the build playlists with another app open the file and edit the paths is kludge and not viable in the long run.

Btw I'm not an iTunes fan either I find it confusing in some spots to I'm not used to it and iTunes also have a learning curve so it's not as inutive as people wants to believe, but it is the first player many ever sees and expects everything else to be like that.

EowynCarter
2009-09-07, 00:51
"" Lets not. And also that it is a "Smart" NMP and can stand on its own once Slim SC is released for those that don't want a Server running all the time""

Yeap.
By the way, what happens when you have no internet and your nas / pc is off ?
Is the SqueezeBox usable at all ? For the stuff like alarms , displaying tine. And for the touch, listening to music on the usb / SD card ?

Is there a fail safe for alarms ?

funkstar
2009-09-07, 07:13
"" Lets not. And also that it is a "Smart" NMP and can stand on its own once Slim SC is released for those that don't want a Server running all the time""

Yeap.
By the way, what happens when you have no internet and your nas / pc is off ?
Is the SqueezeBox usable at all ? For the stuff like alarms , displaying tine. And for the touch, listening to music on the usb / SD card ?

Is there a fail safe for alarms ?
Once it is first setup, Touch is can be completely self contained. The current lineup of Squeezebox players cannot operate without Squeezenetwork or a Squeezecenter installation. The screen doesn't even display the time.

andynormancx
2009-09-07, 07:18
Once it is first setup, Touch is can be completely self contained. The current lineup of Squeezebox players cannot operate without Squeezenetwork or a Squeezecenter installation. The screen doesn't even display the time.
Not quite true. The Boom will show the time and sound the next alarm even when it can't connect to SC or SN.

funkstar
2009-09-07, 07:27
Not quite true. The Boom will show the time and sound the next alarm even when it can't connect to SC or SN.
Yes, true, but that really is all, and alarms are limited to built in sounds, not the actual alarm you set. OK in emergencies, but it isn't very useful without a server running :)

andynormancx
2009-09-07, 07:29
Yes, true, but that really is all, and alarms are limited to built in sounds, not the actual alarm you set. OK in emergencies, but it isn't very useful without a server running :)

Maybe, but given that the actual question was:

"Is the SqueezeBox usable at all ? For the stuff like alarms , displaying tine."

it is fairly relevant !

EowynCarter
2009-09-07, 07:35
Yeap ;)

My ISP have, it seams, the annoying habit to push update at night, forcing the modem to restart. Hopefully, everything goes fine, and the SquezzeBox catch the connexion again. My NAS can't run all night, so "wake up" would have to be from the the Squeezenetwork.
My main trouble there is that my usual wake up radio won't work with the SB, that make me hesitant to buy one. And neither logitech or the radio seams to be wanting to do anytihng.

Mnyb
2009-09-07, 08:07
Yeap ;)

My ISP have, it seams, the annoying habit to push update at night, forcing the modem to restart. Hopefully, everything goes fine, and the SquezzeBox catch the connexion again. My NAS can't run all night, so "wake up" would have to be from the the Squeezenetwork.
My main trouble there is that my usual wake up radio won't work with the SB, that make me hesitant to buy one. And neither logitech or the radio seams to be wanting to do anytihng.

I use wake on lan ( WOL ) Boom has the amazing ability to actually send a WOL packet to the server 10 minutes before the alarm.
My WOL setup is so that my server boots up on wol signal so the server can be off all night it will wake up in time to sound the alarm, the 10 min marginal is probably because we Linux users face a scheduled fsck disc check every 50th boot or something.

I use random song mix for wakeup , it's always exciting what would it be ramstein, mozart or herbie hancock ? I excluded no genre, this morning it was talking heads "and she was".

Fyi Boom also sends wol when you press the "power" button .

dave77
2009-09-07, 08:12
UK prices according to the Logitech site:

Squeezebox Classic: 179
Squeezebox Touch: 259

That's not even close, guys!

Chippy

Crazy pricing. Personally, I wish they'd made the Touch without a touch screen and sold it cheaper, obviously then it couldn't be called Touch ;)

EowynCarter
2009-09-07, 08:35
""" I use wake on lan ( WOL ) Boom has the amazing ability to actually send a WOL packet to the server 10 minutes before the alarm. """

Cool :)
Maybe i really need to find a way to tell my nas to shut up when starting. But i tought about that, as i can set a startup time on my nas.

It makes a "beep" when starting up. a bit anoying. And i still want my nas to beep when need be. (ie to warn there is a problem)

toby10
2009-09-07, 18:04
Isn't that a headphone output, which presumably includes a headphone amp? I would think you would get much better audio quality by connecting the A5s to the line level RCA analog outputs using a Y-connector. That is definitely true for the SB2 and SB3.

Yeah, I meant to say the A5's input (mini-plug) not output in reference to the Touch.
The RCA L/R to mini-plug Y-adapter cable is what I use for Touch output to A5's.

GeeJay
2009-09-07, 20:12
Anyway you can have Music-IP if you want to but it takes serious wizardry to set up Logitech simply *must* do a system similar to appple genuis and make it a standard part of the system.

Also a lot the very nice stuff erland has done for community via his excellent plugins is a *must be standard* but in a simplified form, especially no non standard tag hacking required.

And the very weak playlist creation it still not possible to edit and build playlist without a chosen player to build it on. You cant even save changes to playlist with the controller you have to scroll trough every letter and save it again
The interfaces available are crude, a really nice playlist editor of some kind is also a *must do now* .




"Amen" on all these points. Compatibility with Erland's plug-ins (or a suitable replacement in the core software) in particular is a "must have" before I consider any upgrade.

Nostromo
2009-09-08, 17:40
For my part, lazysearch (or something similar) is a must. Some of Erland's plugins would also be very nice.

Nonreality
2009-09-10, 00:47
Just curious but knowing Apple, why haven't they sued yet about the name?

autopilot
2009-09-10, 16:55
Just curious but knowing Apple, why haven't they sued yet about the name?

I was wondering when someone might mention the actual name, would not have been my choice personally.

Anyway, i guess they would have to sue a lot of people, such as HTC.

Goodsounds
2009-09-10, 17:47
Just curious but knowing Apple, why haven't they sued yet about the name?

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe it is not possible to reserve the use of a word that is either in common use for that purpose and/or useful to describe a product, because that would be unfair to others. Manufactured words are usually okay.

So, Apple could reserve "iphone", Lenovo could restrict "ThinkPad", but I believe an exclusive use of words like "laptop" or "laser printer" would not be permitted. "Touch" strikes me a word that would be viewed in the "useful for everyone" category.

If there are any lawyers in the audience, please chime in.

Nonreality
2009-09-10, 21:08
I would certainly would usually agree with you Goodsounds and you make perfect logic in my mind but that has never stopped Apple before. They are kind of like monster cable on this sort of stuff. I'm just kind of surprised, not hoping (is that one p?) mind you. I hope everyone knows that.

Paul Webster
2009-09-11, 00:31
Apple registered "IPOD TOUCH" (sn 77277704) not "TOUCH" alone - hence no problem here.

Logitech seems to have not bothered to file for "SQUEEZEBOX TOUCH" and have let "SQUEEZEBOX BOOM" lapse (sn 77243542) and are instead relying on using "SQUEEZEBOX" (sn 77243515)

You can find them here
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield
(I suspect that direct link to each doesn't work)

morris_minor
2009-09-11, 02:19
I'm a regular listener to RadioIO's Real Jazz stream and heard last night an advert (am too tight to buy a SoundPass) for RadioIO's business service. Out of interest I just visited the URL and noticed a reference to the IO player. What could this be?

The answer was revealed here:

http://www.io4business.com/articles.asp?id=179

Is this the future of the Classic?

Bob

Nonreality
2009-09-12, 08:59
I'm a regular listener to RadioIO's Real Jazz stream and heard last night an advert (am too tight to buy a SoundPass) for RadioIO's business service. Out of interest I just visited the URL and noticed a reference to the IO player. What could this be?

The answer was revealed here:

http://www.io4business.com/articles.asp?id=179

Is this the future of the Classic?

Bob

Now we know where Squeezeboxes go to retire. :(