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View Full Version : Pricing (Yet again) EU and/or Swiss getting sc*&+*



Sike
2009-09-03, 07:20
Yet again, Logitech proves that they don't need to price these things globaly.

The Squeezebox Classic is USD 300.- and the Touch is also USD 300.-

Over here in Switzerland the classic is CHF 349.- which is USD 239.- (All hunky dory here)

The Touch however is CHF 449.- which is USD 423.-

I know about how much we have to work to buy a Big Mac (yadayada...) but could logitech at least not price in a way that if I were to buy 3.5 Touches I could buy a plane ticket to New York and back.

BTW: The Radio is priced decently compared to switzerland: US $200, CH $234

FredFredrickson
2009-09-03, 07:24
I'm sure there are different regulations and licenses they must obtain for different countries.

Mnyb
2009-09-03, 07:35
Patience patience, I will get myself a Touch eventually.

But Eu pricing is a fun game.

SB3 ok price it was slimdevices then and I ordered from US .

Duet (reciever and controller ) horrible Swedish pricing, ordered from ripcaster in UK to much better price. I think the Swedish price have dropped over time for this.

Boom, expensive around introduction but 6 moths later I picked one at a local store to an ok price ?

So wait a couple months, look out for web shops especially in Germany for us Swedes as any one buying Denon or sony stuff have noticed.

The official EU prices on logitech's local homepages is higher, They obviously tries to jack up the price if they can.
But market powers wins and it will get cheaper.

I wonder how they analysed the Eu market ? Are we to many gadget crazy early adopters, so they can sell the first wave of a new product for 20% more ?

Sike
2009-09-03, 07:38
I'm sure there are different regulations and licenses they must obtain for different countries.

I am pretty sure that is not the case. What licenced technology would be in the Touch that is not in the Classis. Surley the IP is owned globaly.

Sike
2009-09-03, 07:40
Patience patience, I will get myself a Touch eventually.

But Eu pricing is a fun game.

SB3 ok price it was slimdevices then and I ordered from US .



The good ol days. We used to order 10 at a time form the US and share them up between friends...

Wait till it hits the online shops. They're butchering themselves at the moment here..

funkstar
2009-09-03, 07:45
I am pretty sure that is not the case. What licenced technology would be in the Touch that is not in the Classis. Surley the IP is owned globaly.
IP is a complex thing. Just look at the availability differences of online services between regions. And there is a lot of technology in the Touch that isn't in the Classic, it is a completely different beast.

FredFredrickson
2009-09-03, 09:08
IP is a complex thing. Just look at the availability differences of online services between regions. And there is a lot of technology in the Touch that isn't in the Classic, it is a completely different beast.


MP3 Decoders are licensed.

bpa
2009-09-03, 09:39
possibly commercial decoder for native AAC decoding.

sbb
2009-09-03, 12:10
MP3 Decoders are licensed.

probably, but it's a bad explanation!
It's not like music where you need to pay rights in each country!

And anyway Licencing fees per unit are probably not very expensive... and will never justify to convert 299 dollars in 299 euros.

They'are just making a higher profit in europe even though the market is split by languages...

iPhone
2009-09-03, 12:40
probably, but it's a bad explanation!
It's not like music where you need to pay rights in each country!

And anyway Licencing fees per unit are probably not very expensive... and will never justify to convert 299 dollars in 299 euros.

They'are just making a higher profit in europe even though the market is split by languages...

Are you somehow thinking Logitech is making a higher profit in Europe? Not with all the crap that the EU requires to do business there. Also just getting units from China to the EU costs more then to the West coast. Then there is the duty on Electronics that are brought in from outside the EU. Don't think its licensing, I think its the cost of doing business in the EU with all the crazy regulations and ridiculous consumer laws. Europeans campaigned for the consumer protections and got them, now you're paying for them.

Costs are just higher in Europe when bringing a product in. I would be surprised if the margin wasn't actually lower on units sold in the EU even with the higher price related to direct currency exchange prices.

Siduhe
2009-09-03, 13:06
Costs are just higher in Europe when bringing a product in. I would be surprised if the margin wasn't actually lower on units sold in the EU even with the higher price related to direct currency exchange prices.

And not just when bringing products in. Doing what you need to comply with directives like WEEE (and to a lesser extent) ROHS for end of life stuff adds potentially significant costs to selling electronic components in Europe.

Goodsounds
2009-09-03, 13:52
Most of these comments seem like SWAGs to me, way off the mark.

20+ years ago when I lived in Europe, cars were MUCH more expensive in the UK than on the continent. The excuse usually given was that it was caused by the cost/trouble of producing right-hand drive models. EXCEPT, those same right-hand drive models could be purchased from dealers in the Benelux or France for something like 30% less than in the UK (all prices excluding VAT). Yes, most makes and models, including British manufactured models and brands.

There used to be a law in France that stores could only have special "Sales" twice a year, and there was a maximum percentage that prices could be reduced. I think other countries had/may still have rules like this. In some countries, there were limits on whether and by how much chain stores could offer reduced prices, compared to smaller mom and pop stores. Maybe these are gone by now.

OK, now getting away from the retail scene, why do companies charge more in Europe? Because some operating costs are higher, but mostly because they can. Why do prices vary from country to country? Because frequently prices are set by local country management based on assessments of the local market. Also, while macro exchange rates (like Euro vs Dollar vs Yen) change every day, supplier prices usually don't get adjusted more than once or twice a year, at the most, sometimes less often. So someone looking at the price of something over time will ALWAYS be able to say that it is now more expensive or cheaper in X country currency, relative to home, than it was 6 months ago. Always.

Local requirements, be they American or European, don't typically add much to the prices in any one place, because most companies make a global model when they can, to comply with all standards everywhere. Some standard testing and clearances get accepted globally. It's too expensive to do otherwise.

qirex
2009-09-03, 16:56
Don't forget most of Europe has a 15-20% GST/VAT on everything and prices are listed including taxes unlike in the US.

mherger
2009-09-03, 20:39
> Don't forget most of Europe has a 15-20% GST/VAT on everything and
> prices are listed including taxes unlike in the US.

Not in Switzerland. And still... I can't speak for any pricing policy
(neither ours nor others). But when I see climbing ropes manufactured
100km from my home, but sold at the same price or cheaper thousands of km
away in the US, then I assume the main reason for the higher pricing over
here is the "because we can".

iPhone
2009-09-03, 21:00
> Don't forget most of Europe has a 15-20% GST/VAT on everything and
> prices are listed including taxes unlike in the US.

Not in Switzerland. And still... I can't speak for any pricing policy
(neither ours nor others). But when I see climbing ropes manufactured
100km from my home, but sold at the same price or cheaper thousands of km
away in the US, then I assume the main reason for the higher pricing over
here is the "because we can".

Good Point. And besides, doesn't the market and the demand still rule prices over on the other side of the pond?

Goodsounds
2009-09-03, 23:04
Good Point. And besides, doesn't the market and the demand still rule prices over on the other side of the pond?

I saw someone once who had a sign at their cubicle: "My work is so Confidential and Top-Secret, I'm not permitted to understand or know what I'm doing".

In that spirit, I'll comment that prices are determined by more than market forces. There, here and everywhere else. It's so complicated, no one is permitted to understand it. And so, no one really does.

Sike
2009-09-03, 23:13
And not just when bringing products in. Doing what you need to comply with directives like WEEE (and to a lesser extent) ROHS for end of life stuff adds potentially significant costs to selling electronic components in Europe.

I think you will find that even the devices sold in the US are ROHS compliant (which is a good thing). I doubt if Logitech is making a separate device for the EU. The different product numbers are due to the plug.

Sike
2009-09-04, 00:32
Are you somehow thinking Logitech is making a higher profit in Europe? Not with all the crap that the EU requires to do business there. Also just getting units from China to the EU costs more then to the West coast. Then there is the duty on Electronics that are brought in from outside the EU. Don't think its licensing, I think its the cost of doing business in the EU with all the crazy regulations and ridiculous consumer laws. Europeans campaigned for the consumer protections and got them, now you're paying for them.

Costs are just higher in Europe when bringing a product in. I would be surprised if the margin wasn't actually lower on units sold in the EU even with the higher price related to direct currency exchange prices.

I think the "because we can" is probably the most likely.

I do work for a couple of industrial companies who produce machines that they sell worldwide. Most have a department who make documentations for the machines. Without the documentation the machines can not be sold in the US Most pages consist of phrases like "WARNING: If you put your finger between the bade and press the 'CUT' button, you may harm yourself." The have to jump through hoops to penetrate the US market and it effects the bottom line for the products they sell over there.

The europeans therefore also think that the US has 'crazy' consumer regulations. I also understand the US companies probably think the same thing about the EU.

Then again, Slimdevices is a subsidary of a Swiss company.

Shipping to europe will be the roughly the same price. A 40' container may cost $100 more to europe, but you can fit quite a few Squeezebox Touches in a 40' container.

dBerriff
2009-09-04, 03:09
Could it be that the Classic is simply being discounted to get rid of them?

I also agree all this regulation is crazy because it doesn't actually achieve much apart from create extra jobs for the Eurocrats. I had to laugh when CE stickers started appearing on Fender guitars where the design has not changed in any significant way since the 1950's.

funkstar
2009-09-04, 03:12
Could it be that the Classic is simply being discounted to get rid of them?
The Classic is being discontinued because the Touch replaces it. The hardware that stood at the center of the Squeezebox line for so many years has reached the end of the road. And although it is my no means redundant now, the touch really is the logical replacement for it.

Mars Warrior
2009-09-04, 05:11
Yet again, Logitech proves that they don't need to price these things globaly.

The Squeezebox Classic is USD 300.- and the Touch is also USD 300.-

Over here in Switzerland the classic is CHF 349.- which is USD 239.- (All hunky dory here)

The Touch however is CHF 449.- which is USD 423.-

I know about how much we have to work to buy a Big Mac (yadayada...) but could logitech at least not price in a way that if I were to buy 3.5 Touches I could buy a plane ticket to New York and back.

BTW: The Radio is priced decently compared to switzerland: US $200, CH $234
Yup, pricing is weird.
In the Netherlands, the Classic is sold for less than 150 (US$ 215), where the Touch is estimated to sell for 280 - 300 (US$400 - US$430).

That's pretty weird if the price in US$ is the same for both, but seems to be in the same range as in Switzerland...

Getting one from the US won't do any good I think. If sold for US$300, you get overseas postage & handling, import tax & luxury tax (20%), ending I guess again around the US$400 mark...

Chippy
2009-09-04, 23:33
I understand that there are all sorts of duties, etc, which mean that imported goods may be more expensive in the EU.

Unfortunately, Logitech have (inadvertently?) presented what appears to be an "apples to apples" comparison of two products that just doesn't smell right.

In the US, the Classic and the Touch are the same price.

In the UK, the Logitech website lists the Classic at 179. It's been this price for months (years?) over here - this is not a discounted end of line deal.

The Touch is 259.

So they were the same price when they left the US. What magic happened on the flight over? Or do the Touches fly first class and the Classics coach?

Chippy

Mushroom_3
2009-09-05, 11:37
Unfortunately, Logitech have (inadvertently?) presented what appears to be an "apples to apples" comparison of two products that just doesn't smell right.

In the US, the Classic and the Touch are the same price.

In the UK, the Logitech website lists the Classic at 179. It's been this price for months (years?) over here - this is not a discounted end of line deal.

The Touch is 259.

So they were the same price when they left the US. What magic happened on the flight over? Or do the Touches fly first class and the Classics coach?

Chippy

Brilliant! Couldn't have put it better myself.