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View Full Version : Buffer underuns with FLAC (wav & mp3 OK)



Dave Pilgrim
2004-06-14, 09:09
I am getting pretty much the same trouble with the 13th June build and
firmware 24 - buffer emptying on streamed FLAC files and causing
dropouts. In the hope of fixing this I just d/l'd the 6/14 build and it
is even worse. Now I get the music chopped up into 1 second segments
with 2-3 seconds of silence between each burst of sound. Running via
the lame conversion from FLAC to MP3 produces a solid full buffer and no
dropouts (at least not in my short testing so far). Native WAV seems to
suffer from the chopping up effect also.

I am running a PIII with Win2k over a Linksys wifi network and it has
run just fine with FLAC files on my previous stable setup using the 4th
June nightly. I am assuming that having upgraded the firmware to 24 I
cannot go back and use the 6/4 build - although I may try it anyway.

dp

seanadams
2004-06-14, 10:13
Dave,

You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really helpful
if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or a
server issue.

To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version

Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:

#23 24

Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23

24 23



On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:

> I am getting pretty much the same trouble with the 13th June build and
> firmware 24 - buffer emptying on streamed FLAC files and causing
> dropouts. In the hope of fixing this I just d/l'd the 6/14 build and
> it is even worse. Now I get the music chopped up into 1 second
> segments with 2-3 seconds of silence between each burst of sound.
> Running via the lame conversion from FLAC to MP3 produces a solid full
> buffer and no dropouts (at least not in my short testing so far).
> Native WAV seems to suffer from the chopping up effect also.
>
> I am running a PIII with Win2k over a Linksys wifi network and it has
> run just fine with FLAC files on my previous stable setup using the
> 4th June nightly. I am assuming that having upgraded the firmware to
> 24 I cannot go back and use the 6/4 build - although I may try it
> anyway.
>
> dp
>

Pat Farrell
2004-06-14, 10:26
At 01:13 PM 6/14/2004, Sean Adams wrote:
>You can rev backwards within the 2x series.

This is great news. Not quite as great as full backwards, but
a massive improvement. Did I miss the announcement?

I've been running the latest CVS with 10, now I can crank up
and wack the firmware as well. Cool.

seanadams
2004-06-14, 10:46
On Jun 14, 2004, at 10:26 AM, Pat Farrell wrote:

> At 01:13 PM 6/14/2004, Sean Adams wrote:
>
> You can rev backwards within the 2x series.
>
> This is great news. Not quite as great as full backwards, but
> a massive improvement. Did I miss the announcement?


It's not news - I guess I just didn't explain that the "can't go back"
rule only applies to the 1x to 2x transition. Once you're at 2x, the
Squeezebox is running a new and fairly major rev of its OS, which has,
among other things, a different mechanism for transmitting, storing,
and installing firmware updates. However, within the 2x series there is
no restriction on revving up/down. It's also easier now with the
squeezebox.version file to direct the server to enforce a particular
up/downgrade path.

seanadams
2004-06-15, 09:53
Hmmm.... so firmware up/downgrades are working okay on ethernet but
not on wireless?

Can you describe "seriously hosed" and how you got it out of that state?

On Jun 15, 2004, at 9:44 PM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:

> Sean,
> I did finally manage to go back to 23 and unfortunately no change -
> native
> FLAC and WAV files are still chopped up horribly. Then tried the 15th
> June
> nightly which of course tried to upgrade the firmware to 24 again. For
> some
> reason this stuck halfway through and then things got seriously hosed
> with
> the squeezebox ultimately becoming effectively dead. In desperation I
> went
> as far as wiring the SB straight into my router and then re-installing
> the
> 6/4 nightly. The good news is it works just fine with native FLAC and
> WAV
> files. I then successfully transitioned back to wireless and so far so
> good.
>
> So at least for me the recent nightlys are bad news.
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really helpful
>> if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or a
>> server issue.
>>
>> To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version
>>
>> Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:
>>
>> #23 24
>>
>> Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23
>>
>> 24 23
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Ken Veasey
2004-06-15, 13:49
Sean,

I'm quite keen to regress to a version of the firmware/software where
I can play flac files without having to set bitrate limiting.

I can follow the principal of editing the firmware version but having
looked at the file using notepad decided there must be a better editor
for this purpose in windows. Any suggestions please?

Ken



On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:13:09 -0700, you wrote:

>
>Dave,
>
>You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really helpful
>if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or a
>server issue.
>
>To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version
>
>Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:
>
>#23 24
>
>Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23
>
>24 23
>
>
>
>On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:
>
>> I am getting pretty much the same trouble with the 13th June build and
>> firmware 24 - buffer emptying on streamed FLAC files and causing
>> dropouts. In the hope of fixing this I just d/l'd the 6/14 build and
>> it is even worse. Now I get the music chopped up into 1 second
>> segments with 2-3 seconds of silence between each burst of sound.
>> Running via the lame conversion from FLAC to MP3 produces a solid full
>> buffer and no dropouts (at least not in my short testing so far).
>> Native WAV seems to suffer from the chopping up effect also.
>>
>> I am running a PIII with Win2k over a Linksys wifi network and it has
>> run just fine with FLAC files on my previous stable setup using the
>> 4th June nightly. I am assuming that having upgraded the firmware to
>> 24 I cannot go back and use the 6/4 build - although I may try it
>> anyway.
>>
>> dp
>>

kdf
2004-06-15, 14:02
wordpad will handle the unix style line endings that slimserver code has.
ultraEdit is also very good.
-kdf

Quoting Ken Veasey <k.veasey (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk>:

> Sean,
>
> I'm quite keen to regress to a version of the firmware/software where
> I can play flac files without having to set bitrate limiting.
>
> I can follow the principal of editing the firmware version but having
> looked at the file using notepad decided there must be a better editor
> for this purpose in windows. Any suggestions please?
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:13:09 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >
> >Dave,
> >
> >You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really helpful
> >if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or a
> >server issue.
> >
> >To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version
> >
> >Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:
> >
> >#23 24
> >
> >Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23
> >
> >24 23
> >
> >
> >
> >On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:
> >
> >> I am getting pretty much the same trouble with the 13th June build and
> >> firmware 24 - buffer emptying on streamed FLAC files and causing
> >> dropouts. In the hope of fixing this I just d/l'd the 6/14 build and
> >> it is even worse. Now I get the music chopped up into 1 second
> >> segments with 2-3 seconds of silence between each burst of sound.
> >> Running via the lame conversion from FLAC to MP3 produces a solid full
> >> buffer and no dropouts (at least not in my short testing so far).
> >> Native WAV seems to suffer from the chopping up effect also.
> >>
> >> I am running a PIII with Win2k over a Linksys wifi network and it has
> >> run just fine with FLAC files on my previous stable setup using the
> >> 4th June nightly. I am assuming that having upgraded the firmware to
> >> 24 I cannot go back and use the 6/4 build - although I may try it
> >> anyway.
> >>
> >> dp
> >>

seanadams
2004-06-15, 14:13
Ken,

Try with Wordpad instead of Notepad.

It might look funny in Notepad because it doesn't show \n line endings
correctly.

On Jun 15, 2004, at 1:49 PM, Ken Veasey wrote:

> Sean,
>
> I'm quite keen to regress to a version of the firmware/software where
> I can play flac files without having to set bitrate limiting.
>
> I can follow the principal of editing the firmware version but having
> looked at the file using notepad decided there must be a better editor
> for this purpose in windows. Any suggestions please?
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:13:09 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really helpful
>> if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or a
>> server issue.
>>
>> To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version
>>
>> Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:
>>
>> #23 24
>>
>> Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23
>>
>> 24 23
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:
>>
>>> I am getting pretty much the same trouble with the 13th June build
>>> and
>>> firmware 24 - buffer emptying on streamed FLAC files and causing
>>> dropouts. In the hope of fixing this I just d/l'd the 6/14 build and
>>> it is even worse. Now I get the music chopped up into 1 second
>>> segments with 2-3 seconds of silence between each burst of sound.
>>> Running via the lame conversion from FLAC to MP3 produces a solid
>>> full
>>> buffer and no dropouts (at least not in my short testing so far).
>>> Native WAV seems to suffer from the chopping up effect also.
>>>
>>> I am running a PIII with Win2k over a Linksys wifi network and it has
>>> run just fine with FLAC files on my previous stable setup using the
>>> 4th June nightly. I am assuming that having upgraded the firmware to
>>> 24 I cannot go back and use the 6/4 build - although I may try it
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> dp
>>>

Ken Veasey
2004-06-15, 14:26
Thanks Sean & kdf. It looks as though Dave's approach of using the
nightly of 4 June along with firmware 23 may do the trick.

Ken


On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700, you wrote:

>
>Ken,
>
>Try with Wordpad instead of Notepad.
>
>It might look funny in Notepad because it doesn't show \n line endings
>correctly.
>
>On Jun 15, 2004, at 1:49 PM, Ken Veasey wrote:
>
>> Sean,
>>
>> I'm quite keen to regress to a version of the firmware/software where
>> I can play flac files without having to set bitrate limiting.
>>
>> I can follow the principal of editing the firmware version but having
>> looked at the file using notepad decided there must be a better editor
>> for this purpose in windows. Any suggestions please?
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:13:09 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really helpful
>>> if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or a
>>> server issue.
>>>
>>> To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version
>>>
>>> Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:
>>>
>>> #23 24
>>>
>>> Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23
>>>
>>> 24 23
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am getting pretty much the same trouble with the 13th June build
>>>> and
>>>> firmware 24 - buffer emptying on streamed FLAC files and causing
>>>> dropouts. In the hope of fixing this I just d/l'd the 6/14 build and
>>>> it is even worse. Now I get the music chopped up into 1 second
>>>> segments with 2-3 seconds of silence between each burst of sound.
>>>> Running via the lame conversion from FLAC to MP3 produces a solid
>>>> full
>>>> buffer and no dropouts (at least not in my short testing so far).
>>>> Native WAV seems to suffer from the chopping up effect also.
>>>>
>>>> I am running a PIII with Win2k over a Linksys wifi network and it has
>>>> run just fine with FLAC files on my previous stable setup using the
>>>> 4th June nightly. I am assuming that having upgraded the firmware to
>>>> 24 I cannot go back and use the 6/4 build - although I may try it
>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>> dp
>>>>

seanadams
2004-06-15, 14:54
Please try it first with just the 6/4 nightly, but without changing the
firmware to v.23 (the older server shouldn't complain about a too-new
firmware rev).

I want to determine whether this is really due to something new in the
v.24 firmware. It would surprise me if it is (given that wav plays
okay).



On Jun 15, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Ken Veasey wrote:

> Thanks Sean & kdf. It looks as though Dave's approach of using the
> nightly of 4 June along with firmware 23 may do the trick.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Try with Wordpad instead of Notepad.
>>
>> It might look funny in Notepad because it doesn't show \n line endings
>> correctly.
>>
>> On Jun 15, 2004, at 1:49 PM, Ken Veasey wrote:
>>
>>> Sean,
>>>
>>> I'm quite keen to regress to a version of the firmware/software where
>>> I can play flac files without having to set bitrate limiting.
>>>
>>> I can follow the principal of editing the firmware version but having
>>> looked at the file using notepad decided there must be a better
>>> editor
>>> for this purpose in windows. Any suggestions please?
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:13:09 -0700, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really
>>>> helpful
>>>> if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or
>>>> a
>>>> server issue.
>>>>
>>>> To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version
>>>>
>>>> Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:
>>>>
>>>> #23 24
>>>>
>>>> Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23
>>>>
>>>> 24 23
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am getting pretty much the same trouble with the 13th June build
>>>>> and
>>>>> firmware 24 - buffer emptying on streamed FLAC files and causing
>>>>> dropouts. In the hope of fixing this I just d/l'd the 6/14 build
>>>>> and
>>>>> it is even worse. Now I get the music chopped up into 1 second
>>>>> segments with 2-3 seconds of silence between each burst of sound.
>>>>> Running via the lame conversion from FLAC to MP3 produces a solid
>>>>> full
>>>>> buffer and no dropouts (at least not in my short testing so far).
>>>>> Native WAV seems to suffer from the chopping up effect also.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am running a PIII with Win2k over a Linksys wifi network and it
>>>>> has
>>>>> run just fine with FLAC files on my previous stable setup using the
>>>>> 4th June nightly. I am assuming that having upgraded the firmware
>>>>> to
>>>>> 24 I cannot go back and use the 6/4 build - although I may try it
>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> dp
>>>>>

Dave Pilgrim
2004-06-15, 21:44
Sean,
I did finally manage to go back to 23 and unfortunately no change - native
FLAC and WAV files are still chopped up horribly. Then tried the 15th June
nightly which of course tried to upgrade the firmware to 24 again. For some
reason this stuck halfway through and then things got seriously hosed with
the squeezebox ultimately becoming effectively dead. In desperation I went
as far as wiring the SB straight into my router and then re-installing the
6/4 nightly. The good news is it works just fine with native FLAC and WAV
files. I then successfully transitioned back to wireless and so far so
good.

So at least for me the recent nightlys are bad news.
>
> Dave,
>
> You can rev backwards within the 2x series. It would be really helpful
> if you could test with v.23 so we can tell if this is a firmware or a
> server issue.
>
> To go back to v.23, edit the file server/Firmware/squeezebox.version
>
> Comment out the rule to upgrade v.23 to v.24:
>
> #23 24
>
> Then add a rule to "upgrade" v.24 to v.23
>
> 24 23
>
>
>

Dave Pilgrim
2004-06-16, 04:32
Sean,
Perhaps I wasn't clear about the sequence of events in my earlier post. The
downgrade from 24 to 23 was done via my wireless network but I should point
out that my "wireless mode" is not actually wireless as far as the SB is
concerned, as it is plugged into a wireless "g" bridge fed from a wireles
router, so is actually always in ethernet mode. My earlier attempts to
reload 23 had stalled at the halfway point until I went back and looked at
the squeezebox.version file which I had edited in Windows notepad. Despite
my intentions this had ended up as a .txt file and so I redid it and saved
as "all files" and then tried again with success this time, getting it to go
back to 23. I then tried playing FLAC and WAV files but still got the
"chopping up" effect. Then I tried the 6/15 nightly which I presume
overwrote the squeezebox.version file and once again wanted to install 24 on
the SB. This is where it got into trouble, stalling halfway through and
then refusing to respond unless the power was cycled after which it tried
again with the same results. Subsequently it stopped responding altogether
and would not even turn on at one point.

To try and get out of this I moved it upstairs next to the server, plugging
it directly into the router. It did restart but once again was unable to
upgrade the firmware so at that point I uninstalled the 6/15 nightly and
reinstalled my last successful version from 6/4. Now the SB started and
still had firmware 23 intact. I went through the network set up (it had
retained all of the settings) and it now played fine. It has been relocated
back downstairs and is playing native FLAC OK via the bridge setup.

I will wait until the weekend before I try any updating again.
dp



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Adams" <sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: [slim] Buffer underuns with FLAC (wav & mp3 OK)


>
>
> Hmmm.... so firmware up/downgrades are working okay on ethernet but
> not on wireless?
>
> Can you describe "seriously hosed" and how you got it out of that state?
>

seanadams
2004-06-16, 10:43
Dave,

Firmware v.25 is now in the nightly build. It fixes a timing problem
that was causing memory errors on some, but not all squeezeboxes
running v.2x firmware. That would explain firmware updater problems - I
confirmed that this change definitely fixes a particular player that
was having this problem. It probably also will fix any other unusual
bugs like mysterious packet loss and TCP timeouts.

Sean

On Jun 16, 2004, at 4:32 AM, Dave Pilgrim wrote:

> Sean,
> Perhaps I wasn't clear about the sequence of events in my earlier
> post. The
> downgrade from 24 to 23 was done via my wireless network but I should
> point
> out that my "wireless mode" is not actually wireless as far as the SB
> is
> concerned, as it is plugged into a wireless "g" bridge fed from a
> wireles
> router, so is actually always in ethernet mode. My earlier attempts to
> reload 23 had stalled at the halfway point until I went back and
> looked at
> the squeezebox.version file which I had edited in Windows notepad.
> Despite
> my intentions this had ended up as a .txt file and so I redid it and
> saved
> as "all files" and then tried again with success this time, getting it
> to go
> back to 23. I then tried playing FLAC and WAV files but still got the
> "chopping up" effect. Then I tried the 6/15 nightly which I presume
> overwrote the squeezebox.version file and once again wanted to install
> 24 on
> the SB. This is where it got into trouble, stalling halfway through
> and
> then refusing to respond unless the power was cycled after which it
> tried
> again with the same results. Subsequently it stopped responding
> altogether
> and would not even turn on at one point.
>
> To try and get out of this I moved it upstairs next to the server,
> plugging
> it directly into the router. It did restart but once again was unable
> to
> upgrade the firmware so at that point I uninstalled the 6/15 nightly
> and
> reinstalled my last successful version from 6/4. Now the SB started
> and
> still had firmware 23 intact. I went through the network set up (it
> had
> retained all of the settings) and it now played fine. It has been
> relocated
> back downstairs and is playing native FLAC OK via the bridge setup.
>
> I will wait until the weekend before I try any updating again.
> dp
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Adams" <sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com>
> To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:53 AM
> Subject: [slim] Buffer underuns with FLAC (wav & mp3 OK)
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hmmm.... so firmware up/downgrades are working okay on ethernet but
>> not on wireless?
>>
>> Can you describe "seriously hosed" and how you got it out of that
>> state?
>>
>
>

Dave Pilgrim
2004-06-17, 07:09
Sean,
I duly grabbed the 6/16 nightly and did the install and succesful upgrade to
firmware 25 BUT the end result was not satisfactory. The bufffer bar in the
Now Playing screen showed continuous cycling between 100% and about 80% with
occasional drops to 50% or below including at least one complete drop to
zero. I noticed that after dropping to say 50% it built back up quite
slowly towards 100% before starting the 80-100 cycling again.

I went back to the 6/4 nightly keeping firmware 25 but result was the same
so I then reedited squeezebox.version to force a return to firmware 23 and
restarted SlimServer. After the brightness key thing it all went fine with
a continually full buffer.

Hope this is helping you.

dp

>
> Firmware v.25 is now in the nightly build. It fixes a timing problem
> that was causing memory errors on some, but not all squeezeboxes
> running v.2x firmware. That would explain firmware updater problems - I
> confirmed that this change definitely fixes a particular player that
> was having this problem. It probably also will fix any other unusual
> bugs like mysterious packet loss and TCP timeouts.
>
> Sean
>