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remcopoelstra
2009-07-14, 00:34
Hi,

Yesterday I bought a Squeezebox Classic, to be able to wireless connect the music on my MAC with my stereo. After using it for a while, I found a few problems.
First, I turned off iTunes support, but for some reason SqueezeCenter insists on scanning the iTunes library and the music in there shows up on my Classic. How can I stop it from doing so? (The real music is on an external drive).
Second, when the Classic is playing music and I turn off my mac, the Classic tries to reconnect indefinitely to the SqueezeCenter. Is there some way to teach it to turn off (which seems more logical to me), at the moment I have to pull the plug to make it do something useful (that is, I want to sleep and do not want to put the mac back on).

Is the firmware on the Classic also open source? There are a few thinks which I do not really like:
-It doesn't remember the last menu position from which I played a track, pressing the left button on the remote always returns to the main menu, instead of the previous location. That makes browsing and exploring my music very difficult as I always have to navigate back to where I left.
-Sometimes (especially after it has just started playing its first song) it simply refuses do react to anything I do. It seems to be waiting for some server response, but doesn't realise that when I press the left arrow that it can completely forget about that response. I'm not interested in it anymore.
-The music forward and backward buttons do not always work, although they do not seems to have any other meaning at other locations in the menu.
-Search queries are not remembered.
-"Alive kic" does not match "Alive and kicking". Seems that the space is treated as part of the query instead of as a keyword separator.
-Skipping songs is very slow, probably because the Classic tries to play the song immediately. I think it would be better if it first display the title and then tries to actually play it. If I hit next before it can buffer/play, it can as well forget to do that and try again for the next song. It would probably improve how responsive the Classic feels.
-The same holds for skipping back. I always have to press back twice for each song and it always plays the first block of audio data, no matter how fast I press the back button. First handling user input and than trying to play the song would probably improve that.

If the firmware is open source, I might be able to fix some things my self. If not, I hope someone from Logitech is reading this :)


Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Remco Poelstra

toby10
2009-07-14, 02:44
- Firmware is not open source.
- It never really turns OFF (unless you unplug it), just set it's Power Off Brightness to zero in SC7 > Settings > Player > Display
- To get back to previous Menu item go to SC > Settings > Player > Basic Settings > Screensaver when Playing = Jump Back on Wake
- Sluggish IR response can be a weak WiFi signal, go to SC7 > Settings > Information and see what your signal strength is (assuming you are using WiFi)
- FF & Rewind are not usable on certain file formats, what format are you trying to FF on?

Siduhe
2009-07-14, 02:51
-"Alive kic" does not match "Alive and kicking". Seems that the space is treated as part of the query instead of as a keyword separator.


Have a look at the LazySearch plugin (available automatically from the Extension Downloader).

It doesn't quite do what you describe above but it is a quicker way of searching which might help. In particular, a long press of the "0" (zero) button can be used to separate multiple keywords in a keyword search which I think might hit what you want to do.

http://www.hickinbottom.com/lazysearch

remcopoelstra
2009-07-14, 03:07
Hi toby10,

I realize that's not really off. With 'off' I mean, display the clock which it also displays when stopped. I just don't expect that it gives the setup wizard just because the mac is off.

I'll try the screensaver setting when I'm back home. Are you sure it has something to do with the screensaver? I mean, the screensaver isn't active when I'm browsing on the device.

My Wifi signal is about 60%, as reported by the Classic.

When using FF & Rew, I mean the single click variant (just skipping forward/backward to another song, not in the same song). I'm mostly using FLAC and MP3, skipping inside a song seems to work fine.

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

remcopoelstra
2009-07-14, 03:08
Hi Siduhe,

I'm going to try that one out at home. Judging from the website, it seems to do what I want!

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

toby10
2009-07-14, 03:38
Hi toby10,

I realize that's not really off. With 'off' I mean, display the clock which it also displays when stopped. I just don't expect that it gives the setup wizard just because the mac is off.

I'll try the screensaver setting when I'm back home. Are you sure it has something to do with the screensaver? I mean, the screensaver isn't active when I'm browsing on the device.

My Wifi signal is about 60%, as reported by the Classic.

When using FF & Rew, I mean the single click variant (just skipping forward/backward to another song, not in the same song). I'm mostly using FLAC and MP3, skipping inside a song seems to work fine.

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

The SB3 cannot display a clock unless it is connected to a server, so with your server OFF it will continue to "look for momma" and display it is doing so. So if you change the OFF brightness to zero you won't see the screen saying "cannot connect to SC".

If you want the clock with your server OFF you can connect to SqueezeNetwork before logging the SB3 off of your server. Now it can use the online SN server display your clock.

Jump Back on Wake should be in there somewhere. I use (and highly recommend) the added screensaver plugin Music Information Screen and it has a Jump Back setting right on it's config page.

Once you get Jump Back working, when you press any ARROW you will be taken "back" to whatever your previous Menu item was, in this case your open music file or playlist. Now you can ARROW up or down to the next song, press Play. I think there is a "skip" function as well, but I don't use that as I prefer to see and choose the song to be played next.

60% WiFi signal *may* give sluggish performance.

bpa
2009-07-14, 05:10
Is the firmware on the Classic also open source? There are a few thinks which I do not really like:


Firmware is not open source but the SB firmware is very basic it just handles the audio streams. Most of the functional "problems" you have are implemented in Squeezecenter which is open source and you can therefore modify. Performance (e.g. slow response time) is usually network or SC processor/system related.

Before you start modification, wait for answer/suggestions as SC has been around for awhile and has many options implemented in that time (some not well documented) which may meet your needs.

remcopoelstra
2009-07-14, 05:15
Hi,

I already started to believe that the remote control input to the SB is simply send to the SC, where the correct menu text to display is sent back. Is that correct? If yes, are there ways to measure the performance of the various parts of the system? I would like to find out whether it's my Wifi or perhaps SC load.
Does the SB Controller (with the nice display) work the same way? Or does it do more local calculations/user handling?


Regards,

Remco Poelstra

toby10
2009-07-14, 05:47
Hi,

I already started to believe that the remote control input to the SB is simply send to the SC, where the correct menu text to display is sent back. Is that correct? If yes, are there ways to measure the performance of the various parts of the system? I would like to find out whether it's my Wifi or perhaps SC load.
Does the SB Controller (with the nice display) work the same way? Or does it do more local calculations/user handling?


Regards,

Remco Poelstra

It would help to have some more details about your network:
- you are using a router?
- are you running router in "mixed" mode? a+b+g+n? Or just G?
- is your MAC wired to your router?
- have you checked to see if there are competing WiFi signals near your player location?

Siduhe
2009-07-14, 05:50
Hi,

If yes, are there ways to measure the performance of the various parts of the system? I would like to find out whether it's my Wifi or perhaps SC load.


Look at the Help section in the web interface - there is a Performance/Network Server/Health Monitoring option there which will tell you about server load and the amount of network throughput your system can handle (i.e. if it is going to struggle with higher bitrate files).

There is also a way to access this performance monitoring option from the Duet Controller itself, but I've never been able to back out of this once I started it, so always use the web interface.

remcopoelstra
2009-07-14, 06:05
Hi toby10,

My ADSL modem has a built in Wifi router. My mac connects wireless and yes, unfortunatly there are more networks in the neighbourhood. I think my router uses just g. It supports b and g. If it's important I can try to find out what it currently uses. The mac, SB and router are the only devices in my network.

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

bpa
2009-07-14, 06:10
If yes, are there ways to measure the performance of the various parts of the system? I would like to find out whether it's my Wifi or perhaps SC load.


On WebUI - Bottom LHS - click Help - then select Server & Network Health and Enable Performance monitoring.

Also on SB you can do a Network Test under Settings/Information.

radish
2009-07-14, 07:22
Does the SB Controller (with the nice display) work the same way? Or does it do more local calculations/user handling?

It's broadly similar, in that the menus and available options all come from the server, but it handles user input, animation, etc locally so it's not totally dependent on the server or network connection. Whichever player you're controlling is though, so if you have network issues you could still have control glitches.

toby10
2009-07-14, 07:28
Hi toby10,

My ADSL modem has a built in Wifi router. My mac connects wireless and yes, unfortunatly there are more networks in the neighbourhood. I think my router uses just g. It supports b and g. If it's important I can try to find out what it currently uses. The mac, SB and router are the only devices in my network.

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

I'd suggest using your MAC's WiFi application to see if you have any nearby networks that are on the same ch as your network ch. Choose ch 1 or 6 or 11, whichever is NOT seen or shows weakest competing signal. Nearby WiFi signals on the same ch can cause some interference with each other, weakening your signal.

Running in G only also helps (can't hurt), assuming you have no B devices.

You are running a "double WiFi hop" as both of your devices (SB3 and MAC server) are both wireless. It can operate this way but it can also be troublesome and may well explain your stated sluggish behavior. A real simple test would be to temporarily wire your MAC or SB3 to your ADSL router (I'm assuming the modem can operate in both WiFi and wired simultaneously, never used one myself) and see if your SB3 becomes a bit more responsive.

bpa's SB3 network test suggestion would be another good diagnostic tool. :)

remcopoelstra
2009-07-14, 11:51
Hi all,

Problems almost solved! I removed the iTunes plugin, so that one is not annoying me anymore. It does not automatically remove the files that were added by the plugin though. Minor issue.

The lazysearch plugin is wonderfull. I opt for standard inclusion (or at least the basic idea behind it) :)

Some network problems remain. I switched the router to channel 11, which was totally free. The network strength increased a bit (+6%), but sluggishness remained. Wired the SB3 to the router and it remained the same. Also wired the mac to the router and now it's quite responsive. But that leaves a problem: Wires all over the floor. I bought the SB3 to have as few cables to my home stereo as possible. Any tips on how I can get better performance while not using wired ethernet?
The router is using g if that matters.

Thanks so far!

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

aubuti
2009-07-14, 14:24
Wiring the Mac to the router shouldn't involve an extra cable to your stereo, unless you keep either the Mac or the router with the stereo. Can you locate your Mac and router near each other, but away from the stereo? Leave that connection wired and try going wireless with the SB3 and see if it still works well. Normally having a wired connection to the server is more important than having wired connection to the player.

If you still have too many wires consider getting homeplug ethernet adapters. They cost some money, but usually less than the cost of pulling ethernet cable (which not everyone can do because of living in a rental, etc.).

toby10
2009-07-14, 15:36
......
Some network problems remain. I switched the router to channel 11, which was totally free. The network strength increased a bit (+6%), but sluggishness remained. Wired the SB3 to the router and it remained the same. Also wired the mac to the router and now it's quite responsive. But that leaves a problem: Wires all over the floor. I bought the SB3 to have as few cables to my home stereo as possible. Any tips on how I can get better performance while not using wired ethernet?.........

Yeah that double WiFi hop can often cause issues. Sometime changing ch's, particularly in more urban settings, can result in much higher % gains than what you are experiencing. But, hey, even 6% is better than not switching ch's. I'm not in an urban area but just changing ch's gave me a solid 20% signal boost.

As aubuti says, try at all possible to wire your MAC server computer for optimal performance and speedier SB3 responsiveness.

SilverRS8
2009-07-15, 06:13
Hi all,

Problems almost solved! I removed the iTunes plugin, so that one is not annoying me anymore. It does not automatically remove the files that were added by the plugin though. Minor issue.

The lazysearch plugin is wonderfull. I opt for standard inclusion (or at least the basic idea behind it) :)

Some network problems remain. I switched the router to channel 11, which was totally free. The network strength increased a bit (+6%), but sluggishness remained. Wired the SB3 to the router and it remained the same. Also wired the mac to the router and now it's quite responsive. But that leaves a problem: Wires all over the floor. I bought the SB3 to have as few cables to my home stereo as possible. Any tips on how I can get better performance while not using wired ethernet?
The router is using g if that matters.

Thanks so far!

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

Sluggishness may also be related to the server you are running. I've had such issues on Vista running on a dual core. I'm now running SC on Ubuntu on a VIA single core 1,5 GHz processor and it performes without any sluggishnes. What are you running as server?

ghostrider
2009-07-15, 07:17
Hi all,

Wired the SB3 to the router and it remained the same. Also wired the mac to the router and now it's quite responsive.

Just wiring the SB to the router does not mean it is using the wired connection. You have to go through the setup process to specify a wired connection.

aubuti
2009-07-15, 07:38
Just wiring the SB to the router does not mean it is using the wired connection. You have to go through the setup process to specify a wired connection.
Actually the SB3 is supposed to switch over to ethernet as soon as you plug in the ethernet cable (assuming it's a good cable). This is different from the SB Duet Receiver, which does require the user to re-do the setup process.

That said, it certainly is a good idea to double-check that the SB3 is indeed using the ethernet connection after plugging it in. This can be done via SC Settings > Information and looking at the player info -- if it doesn't say anything about wireless signal strength then it is using wired. Or you can go back to network setup (hold down the left button on the IR remote for 5 seconds) to see how it is connecting.

remcopoelstra
2009-07-16, 10:08
Hi,

Yes, I checked that it was using ethernet. I did not do that for me automagically, but that was no real problem. With the SB3 wireless and my mac (running OSX10.5) wired, it's also quite responsive. So I think I will keep it this way.
After using it some days now, I've found some other things for which I would like some support:
-Is it possible to modify the rate of change for the volume control?
-When browsing artists->albums, for some artists the albums are displayed like <year> - <album> and some are not. The directory structure is the same and musicip mixer says that all tags are OK.
-Why does 'Haskell, Gordon' show up with artists starting with G while 'Dietrich, Marlene' is with the D artists?
-Why does 'Liszt, Frans' show up with the D artists also?

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

aubuti
2009-07-16, 11:06
-Is it possible to modify the rate of change for the volume control?
-When browsing artists->albums, for some artists the albums are displayed like <year> - <album> and some are not. The directory structure is the same and musicip mixer says that all tags are OK.
-Why does 'Haskell, Gordon' show up with artists starting with G while 'Dietrich, Marlene' is with the D artists?
-Why does 'Liszt, Frans' show up with the D artists also?
I can't answer your question about the volume control, but all of the other issues look like tagging problems to me. You need to look at the tags carefully with a good tagging program. Focus on the problem areas you've mentioned and you'll probably find some inconsistencies. For example, the Dietrich/Haskell problem is almost certainly because of bad or simply missing ARTISTSORT tags. If your files are MP3 then you need to look out for tracks that have both ID3v1 and ID3v2 tags, and possibly APE tags. In general, eliminate all the ID3v1 tags and use only ID3v2 tags.

Unfortunately I don't know a good tagging program for the Mac, but I expect someone will offer a suggestion.

remcopoelstra
2009-07-16, 12:52
Hi,

yeah I hope someone can suggest.
I ripped the Liszt CD myself using Max, which is quite a dumb program. It definitely isn't capable of writing ID3 tags. The only tags I added are title, artist, album and year.
Is there some way to look into the internals of the server? Maybe it's possible to see how that artist/album structure is constructed?

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

aubuti
2009-07-16, 13:14
yeah I hope someone can suggest.
I ripped the Liszt CD myself using Max, which is quite a dumb program. It definitely isn't capable of writing ID3 tags. The only tags I added are title, artist, album and year.
Is there some way to look into the internals of the server? Maybe it's possible to see how that artist/album structure is constructed?
As for 'the internals of the server', SC is written in Perl, so all the source code is already there on your computer for you to explore at your leisure. If you are fluent in Perl. But I'll bet anything that the problem is your tags and not the SC internals.

What format are files: MP3, FLAC, AAC, ALAC, something else? That will determine what type of tags they should have. I am fairly certain that Max can write ID3 tags, but that's not what you want if the files are FLAC.

If you haven't done so already, I highly recommend that you study the Beginner's Guide in the wiki, especially the tagging guide: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/BeginnersGuideToTagging

remcopoelstra
2009-07-16, 13:33
No, I'm not into perl, but I do know C, so perl shouldn't be that hard.

The files are mostly flac, especially the Frans Liszt CD.
I checked those files with easytag, which show only a Vorbis tag. Using 'head' and 'tail' on the file also only show a Vorbis tag, so I think there really is no id3 tag. Both options also do not show something like a sort tag which could place Liszt under the 'D'. So apart from following the file's life inside SC, I do not see many options to see what's going wrong here.

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

remcopoelstra
2009-07-17, 10:35
I checked the contents of the mysql database, to see what caused the sorting.
For 'Liszt, Franz' I noticed that SC has put "DEMONIC LISZT" in the namesort column. That would explain why it is sorted with the D artists, but how does it get to that name? It's definitely not in my Vorbis tags. Last.fm mentions some sort of "the demonic liszt", but there seems little information about it.
How did that string get it there? Does Squeezecenter query last.fm? Is there some plugin that tries to match artists on the internet?

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

Phil Leigh
2009-07-17, 10:40
I checked the contents of the mysql database, to see what caused the sorting.
For 'Liszt, Franz' I noticed that SC has put "DEMONIC LISZT" in the namesort column. That would explain why it is sorted with the D artists, but how does it get to that name? It's definitely not in my Vorbis tags. Last.fm mentions some sort of "the demonic liszt", but there seems little information about it.
How did that string get it there? Does Squeezecenter query last.fm? Is there some plugin that tries to match artists on the internet?

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

It's in your tags. You may not believe it... but it is.
You need to get MP3Tag and take a long hard look.
SC simply reads what is in the files.

remcopoelstra
2009-07-17, 11:18
Yes, you are right (and all others :) ). At least I now knew what I had to look for.
A single file had a MUSICBRAINZ_SORTNAME tag.
Unfortunately removing the tag and updating the SC database did not help, I had to do a full empty-and-rescan (it's still working on it).
I hope it will be solved then.

Thanks and regards,

Remco Poelstra

remcopoelstra
2009-07-17, 12:17
Is it btw correct that a Vorbis YEAR tag is parsed in another way than a DATE tag? When I've a DATE=2005 tag, the album name comes up different from albums that have a YEAR=2005 tag.
Or should I look for something else?

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

Phil Leigh
2009-07-17, 12:38
Is it btw correct that a Vorbis YEAR tag is parsed in another way than a DATE tag? When I've a DATE=2005 tag, the album name comes up different from albums that have a YEAR=2005 tag.
Or should I look for something else?

Regards,

Remco Poelstra

I only use YEAR...

remcopoelstra
2009-07-17, 13:08
Currently my collection uses both, but it seems that SC has troubles with that.
That's a bit strange, because there seems to be code in place to extract a year from a date tag. I don't know why it doesn't work for me. Maybe it has something to do with the update of the database.

Regards,

Remco Poelstra