PDA

View Full Version : Musicians....



Howard Passman
2009-07-12, 08:20
Would anyone else like to see the ability to vary the pitch of the music from your SB? Maybe up to a 1/4 tone so as to be able to play along or even use the SB to learn a song.

Sorry if this has been asked, but I've never seen it mentioned.

Howard

Goodsounds
2009-07-12, 18:54
I'm not sure the world needs one more way to alter the pitch of music you want to play along with. What you describe can be easily done now with Wave Input and numerous choices of software. Or, just with that software and played on your PC..

Unless you belong to the Swiss Army Knife SB club, like the goof some time ago who "needed" to use his unit to time lasagna cooking. In which case, yeah, I guess this is a pressing need! ;-)

Khuli
2009-07-13, 01:32
Would anyone else like to see the ability to vary the pitch of the music from your SB? Maybe up to a 1/4 tone so as to be able to play along or even use the SB to learn a song.

You have music on your SB that's out of tune?....

Howard Passman
2009-07-13, 01:40
You have music on your SB that's out of tune?....

Apparently. I don't make lasagna, but I have been playing guitar for 40+ years. Especially when listening to blues I like to grab my guitar and play along. MOst of the time it's fine, but when playing a mix you do run across some music that isn't tuned exactly to standard.

This isn't that crazy of an idea unless you've never used a turntable or a tape deck with pitch variance. But then you'd have to be old enough to have used a turntable or tape deck :-)

Howard

Khuli
2009-07-13, 02:02
Apparently. I don't make lasagna, but I have been playing guitar for 40+ years. Especially when listening to blues I like to grab my guitar and play along. MOst of the time it's fine, but when playing a mix you do run across some music that isn't tuned exactly to standard.

This isn't that crazy of an idea unless you've never used a turntable or a tape deck with pitch variance. But then you'd have to be old enough to have used a turntable or tape deck :-)

Howard
Makes sense - but isn't it a lot easier to re-tune your guitar?

A bit of a pain if you have a bunch of tracks all with different pitches maybe. Having 6 guitars all tuned slightly differently might help - I'm sure Mrs P won't mind ;)

I still have my turntable (Rega Planar3) I wish I used it more, it sounds a lot better than a CD.

Howard Passman
2009-07-13, 02:14
Makes sense - but isn't it a lot easier to re-tune your guitar?

A bit of a pain if you have a bunch of tracks all with different pitches maybe. Having 6 guitars all tuned slightly differently might help - I'm sure Mrs P won't mind ;)

I still have my turntable (Rega Planar3) I wish I used it more, it sounds a lot better than a CD.

:-) I've had the 6+ guitars and am down to my 5 favorites. Mr.s P is still hanging with me. She enjoys listening she sayds and the cotton just makes it better :-)

This was no big thing, just a simple question. Although retuning back and forth isn't a big deal it doeas take a bit longer to accomplish than tweaking a knob. Of course with the SB's there's no knob to tweak so it may not be plausable. Back in the day when you sat down to learn a song from an album it was a nice feature to be able to adjust the turntable to your guitar, keyboard, whatever... And for those with keyboards back then, there were no tuning adjustments.

Howard

cblock
2009-07-13, 02:22
Not at home, so I can't check this, but I'm fairly sure that my old SB1 has a pitch function that alters the playback speed of anything going through it. That would seem to do the trick - and they must be pretty cheap on Ebay by now!

Howard Passman
2009-07-13, 02:37
Not at home, so I can't check this, but I'm fairly sure that my old SB1 has a pitch function that alters the playback speed of anything going through it. That would seem to do the trick - and they must be pretty cheap on Ebay by now!


Wow, thanks. I wonder why they had that feature. I've never seen a SB1 having gotten in to it with the introduction of the DUET. I apprecuate you looking.

Howard

cblock
2009-07-13, 03:11
I think it was a hardware feature of the d/a converter chips used in that model, so they just made a control available. When they switched to a better platform for the newer models, the feature was no longer built in. Presumably for recent products to do it would require a server software based implementation.

funkstar
2009-07-13, 03:49
I think it was a hardware feature of the d/a converter chips used in that model, so they just made a control available. When they switched to a better platform for the newer models, the feature was no longer built in. Presumably for recent products to do it would require a server software based implementation.
I think it would be easier to do it in the server, could SOX be made to do this?

It would also be possible to do it in the firmware, but then you run into processor speed issues and available memory. This was the main argument against adding DSP functions to the SB2+ products, even though SB1 could do some of them.

maggior
2009-07-13, 05:40
MOst of the time it's fine, but when playing a mix you do run across some music that isn't tuned exactly to standard.

Howard

Depending on the players you listen to, you may run into this more often than not. As you probably know, Stevie Ray Vaughn tuned his guitar to Eb rather than E to compensate for the heavy guage strings he played with.

Though a pictch feature wouldn't help with players who use drop D tuning. Though it isn't too difficult to detune a single string. :-)

I own 2 guitars. I'd love to own a 3rd, but I don't play enough any more to justify it.

Dogberry2
2009-07-13, 08:26
I play guitar too, and I understand Howard's point. But (no disrespect intended, Howard) I don't think such a feature would be worth putting development effort into. There are plenty of other things to keep the SB engineering team busy, and sidetracking them with developing stuff that would be, I believe, extremely niche features can only take time away from their primary track.

pfarrell
2009-07-13, 10:18
Khuli wrote:
> Makes sense - but isn't it a lot easier to re-tune your guitar?

For a Guitar, perhaps. Not feasible with a Trumpet, Piano, Sax, etc.

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

Phil Leigh
2009-07-13, 10:21
Of course, unless you do some funky DSP, changing the pitch will also change the tempo...

Khuli
2009-07-14, 03:50
Khuli wrote:
> Makes sense - but isn't it a lot easier to re-tune your guitar?

For a Guitar, perhaps. Not feasible with a Trumpet, Piano, Sax, etc.


Indeed, but then Howard was talking about playing along with a guitar.

Goodsounds
2009-07-14, 07:57
Of course, unless you do some funky DSP, changing the pitch will also change the tempo...

Actually, this comment isn't correct. There are many programs available that will change pitch, or tempo, independently. So you can slow it down (to learn it) and keep the same pitch. Or, as Howard described, change the pitch by some fraction of a tone to compensate for the recording being out of tune, and the tempo stays the same.

Phil Leigh
2009-07-14, 10:31
Actually, this comment isn't correct. There are many programs available that will change pitch, or tempo, independently. So you can slow it down (to learn it) and keep the same pitch. Or, as Howard described, change the pitch by some fraction of a tone to compensate for the recording being out of tune, and the tempo stays the same.

Actually it IS correct. To do timestretch (change tempo, retain pitch) or repitch (change pitch, retain tempo) takes some heavy duty maths and is NOT what the SB1 did. Most BASIC sound editor apps don't do these - they just change pitch/tempo together. To do it in realtime in hardware (and I've owned several Pro devices that do this - eventide, digitech, autotune etc) requires serious DSP and well thought out algorithms if it isn't going to sound dreadful.
Pro-tools, Cubase, Cakewalk etc do it very well in software but not in real-time.

I don't know if SOX can do this (in real time?).

kolding
2009-07-14, 10:39
Actually, this comment isn't correct. There are many programs available that will change pitch, or tempo, independently. So you can slow it down (to learn it) and keep the same pitch. Or, as Howard described, change the pitch by some fraction of a tone to compensate for the recording being out of tune, and the tempo stays the same.

That would be what I call some "Funky DSP".

I think you're thinking of things like "The Amazing Slow Downer", and if you look at what it actually does, you too would described it as "Funky DSP". It has to extract the waveforms from the samples, stretch those out so that they play the same waveforms, just for longer, and then resample them to run them through a DAC. All this while handling lines of notes moving in different directions, decay, etc, etc. They do a decent version, but far from perfect.

Eric

Goodsounds
2009-07-14, 10:52
Phil, I think you misunderstood my comment.

There are many PC programs - Slow Gold is one I use - that offer pitch or tempo shifting. Each independent of the other. When you use it to shift the pitch, it does not change the tempo. Your comment insofar as what I was talking about was not correct.

I don't know what your "real time" comment refers to, but with Slow Gold, you load up the sound file, indicate how much of a shift you want, then push "play". That's real time as far as I'm concerned.

It may not be final master recording quality, but it sounds great and provides the intended result - to change the track playback to allow one to learn or play along.

I don't know or care what is involved or how it does it, I'm just a user. I wasn't referring to any specific hardware as you have.

Phil Leigh
2009-07-14, 14:11
Phil, I think you misunderstood my comment.

There are many PC programs - Slow Gold is one I use - that offer pitch or tempo shifting. Each independent of the other. When you use it to shift the pitch, it does not change the tempo. Your comment insofar as what I was talking about was not correct.

I don't know what your "real time" comment refers to, but with Slow Gold, you load up the sound file, indicate how much of a shift you want, then push "play". That's real time as far as I'm concerned.

It may not be final master recording quality, but it sounds great and provides the intended result - to change the track playback to allow one to learn or play along.

I don't know or care what is involved or how it does it, I'm just a user. I wasn't referring to any specific hardware as you have.

"Real time" meant doing it as the song was streaming (as opposed to changing the file, then playing it)

Hardware is a whole different world... you can ignore it for the purpose of this discussion. I just threw it in for additional illustration.

The point is that the SB1 didn't do any of this, it just changed the pitch by speeding up/down the playback - so it wasn't true timestretch/repitch.

Your slow gold example uses some pretty complex maths to do what it does. Not something I'd expect to see in SB firmware... could be done server-side though.

Howard Passman
2009-07-15, 09:48
Depending on the players you listen to, you may run into this more often than not. As you probably know, Stevie Ray Vaughn tuned his guitar to Eb rather than E to compensate for the heavy guage strings he played with.

Though a pictch feature wouldn't help with players who use drop D tuning. Though it isn't too difficult to detune a single string. :-)

I own 2 guitars. I'd love to own a 3rd, but I don't play enough any more to justify it.

SRV is my all time favorite musician :-) Actually, most of what I like to play along to is more along the lines of Luther Allison, Buddy Guy...those types of players. You know, guys I can keep up with :-)

Well, it was just a question that popped in my head. Doesn't sound all the feasable.

Howard

maggior
2009-07-15, 10:52
SRV is my all time favorite musician :-) Actually, most of what I like to play along to is more along the lines of Luther Allison, Buddy Guy...those types of players. You know, guys I can keep up with :-)

Well, it was just a question that popped in my head. Doesn't sound all the feasable.

Howard

SRV was on another plane - his ability was just unreal. He was one of those players that just seemed to channel the music. It's such a shame he was taken from us so early.

The only tune of his I could tackle really was Crossfire. And even that has some passages that he manages to make sound effortless that are pretty difficult.

His rendition of Hendrix's "Voodoo Chile" is one of my favorites.