PDA

View Full Version : My personal thoughts on Squeezebox concept.



YanniG
2009-07-02, 00:58
On first glimpse, I saw the Squeezebox Duet as a computer-free device(s) that would play Internet radio and my local music if I had it on some ethernet enabled hard disk.
Since I bought the Duet, 95% of the time it is on "electricity" on my free evenings, it is spend on trying to make the Internet Radio work.I had made it work after a month and a half, and I was ready to make the final installment on my baby's room, but then it came 7.3.3 and again from the beginning.I think that I am used as a beta tester by Logitech when I have never signed in for such a thing.My free evenings are ment to be spend with my newborn baby listening to music, not in front of a screen reading the forum, trying to make this Internet Radio option work.
Probably a netbook with good speaker system attached would lead me to enjoy life, instead of de-bugging some device that I bought.
I have nothing against anyone at Logitech.
The people at the forum and on technical support, do their best to save the situation (and I really thank them), but the end-user pays to enjoy a product, does not pay to start debugging the issues...
These are my personal thoughts, I think it would be nice if it was forwarded to the managers of Logitech, just as a feedback from a simple user.
I don't know how other users of the devices feel about the squeezebox concept.I would like to see your thoughts.
And I am not a fanboy of some other system, I just want the system that I paid to be working as advertised.

Schindler
2009-07-02, 03:01
I like it, I also have no problem running:

a Transporter, several Squeezeboxes, Boom and a Duet

We have them all over the house and we enjoy them every day.
I also have written a plug-in to show who is calling. Something I could not do with other streaming hardware brands.

I am a happy customer!

Christian

SuperQ
2009-07-02, 09:05
I don't know what your specific issues are, but I just plug in my booms and other squeezeboxes and they just work. And this is in downtown San Francisco where I can see 50+ wifi networks in range.

Howard Passman
2009-07-02, 09:24
On first glimpse, I saw the Squeezebox Duet as a computer-free device(s) that would play Internet radio and my local music if I had it on some ethernet enabled hard disk.
Since I bought the Duet, 95% of the time it is on "electricity" on my free evenings, it is spend on trying to make the Internet Radio work.I had made it work after a month and a half, and I was ready to make the final installment on my baby's room, but then it came 7.3.3 and again from the beginning.I think that I am used as a beta tester by Logitech when I have never signed in for such a thing.My free evenings are ment to be spend with my newborn baby listening to music, not in front of a screen reading the forum, trying to make this Internet Radio option work.
Probably a netbook with good speaker system attached would lead me to enjoy life, instead of de-bugging some device that I bought.
I have nothing against anyone at Logitech.
The people at the forum and on technical support, do their best to save the situation (and I really thank them), but the end-user pays to enjoy a product, does not pay to start debugging the issues...
These are my personal thoughts, I think it would be nice if it was forwarded to the managers of Logitech, just as a feedback from a simple user.
I don't know how other users of the devices feel about the squeezebox concept.I would like to see your thoughts.
And I am not a fanboy of some other system, I just want the system that I paid to be working as advertised.

My first SB was the DUET and it almost drove me crazy, as any long term participant in this forum can tell you. Now, I have a Duet, extra Controller, SB3, Boom and a Transporter. I can't tell you the exact moment when things turned around for me, but I think it would be unfair and is unfair, to act like the DUET is a simple to use device. Personally, I always recommend the SB3 starting out. It allows you to get the hang of SqueezeCenter and enjoy the music for a while.

I can tell you things improved for me when I got rid of my NAS and started running SC on a PC. Once the DUET was set up and running on a PC, things just settled in. Then when 7.3 came out, that pretty much sinched the whole thing. I have no issues with the SB experience since 7.3.1..

Hang in there if you can. These little boxes have so much to offer in entertainment once you get the hang of it.

Howard

Dingostrategy
2009-07-02, 11:15
Personally, I always recommend the SB3 starting out.

These little boxes have so much to offer in entertainment once you get the hang of it.

Howard

+1 here. I was successful with a Duet but a zillion emails to the friend I set it up for in the last few months confirms the SB3 as the better option IMHO. I agree also with the OPs sobre remarks. Well put, but like Howard I really hope you sort it out. One tip - once you find a configuration that works with your arrangement of server/OS/devices/remote solutions/filetypes/plugins/extras - stick with it. Turn off automatic updates, set and forget. By way of example I got 6 months perfect, trouble free usage out of 7.3.1. A server/OS on my side change precipitated some fiddling, and another day and I was go with 7.4. But then a router change messed up some of my radio, so back to 7.3.3. Then something changed at SN another month later that affected Linux, and now I'm a happy customer of 7.3.4 :)

I admit it all sounds a little bonkers but it was my choice to change the server, rock the boat. And at a time when there were a lot of changes going on in the SW. That time of flux continues with 7.4 around the corner somewhere. Like you - most of my issues were with internet radio and music services via SN through SC.

If you want my advice - and for sure you didn't ask for it - think about an SB3. Sounds radical and like a sales pitch, but it will provide delightful colours for the baby to watch, and will probably be a lot easier to set up. Your situation notwithstanding, they are cheap kit for what they do. Set the Duet aside until a rainy day, and you'll have two synced players in time for toddling.

However I disagree with the 'little boxes and entertainment comment' - the box is just a convenient and high-quality transport for your tunes. It's gotta remain about the tunes, not the boxes!

Oh and P.S congratulations :) you are one fine parent for sharing music with the new baby.

Howard Passman
2009-07-02, 11:23
[QUOTE=Dingostrategy;437458However I disagree with the 'little boxes and entertainment comment' - the box is just a convenient and high-quality transport for your tunes. It's gotta remain about the tunes, not the boxes!
[/QUOTE]

Ahhh,but you see the music is the entertainment. There's nothing entertaining about a little plastic box.

:-)

mark wollschlager
2009-07-02, 12:24
My two duets works great out of the box, every firmware for the last 7 months.
Receivers are in two different parts of the house.
The latest firmware has improved the reported signal strength.
My wife, who is not a gadget person, loves hers.
She listens to Internet Radio, and browses the library without using a manual or asking me for help.
I run it off of a Netgear NV+, no problems ( except self inflicted ).
If I could justify a Transporter it would free up a Duet for the shop ( or perhaps a SB3) :-).
Just my dumb luck, I guess.
Mark.

method man
2009-07-02, 13:09
I bought the duet about 2 weeks ago. it worked from the start.

Its true the hand contoller loses connection a bit, and runs a bit slow occasionally. but i leave it for 5 seconds and it catches up. but i have an old crappy wireless setup that needs updating. especially if i want to use the controller in another room.

But Ive been generally happy and when its working well which is most of the time, its a great bit of kit. However. i do feel a bit sorry for those that bought it when it first came out. i wouldnt rush to be the first for a new one LOL

86atc250r
2009-07-02, 13:16
Mine ran great from the beginning, over a year ago - and it get's used daily.

I recently bought a 2nd that I've set up at my parent's house. Both continue to perform as expected, with very rare and minor issues (certainly no more issues than any other wireless device at either location).

To the original poster. Logic would seem to suggest that if your previous software version was working great and 7.3.3 has caused you some sort of issue, and considering the fact that no one forced you to upgrade, perhaps you should migrate back to the sw version that you were happy with.

FWIW, the transition to 7.3.3 for me has been trouble free. My two duets and other devices continue to work very well. From what I understand, 7.3.3 has solved a lot of issues that some were experiencing with what I suspect are questionable wireless networks or routers/ap's.

Pale Blue Ego
2009-07-02, 13:34
Use SB3, dedicated server (I strongly prefer linux), and wired connections. You will have no problems.

tedfroop
2009-07-02, 14:11
I have an SB2 and an SB3. Never a day of problems with either. Had the first one up and running inside the first half hour.

I have never felt like a beta tester. As a matter of fact I have seen many times when people with issues have their issue fixed before the next major release. That and the help you get here in the forums, all you have to do is ask (nicely) and you will get help.

The open source software that drives the products has improved steadily from the first version I downloaded. It is now such a "Swiss Army Knife" of an application I am amazed every time they add something new. Plus there are plugins and SqueezeNetwork, and streaming podcasts, radio and more.

I can say for myself, I have gotten fair value for what I purchased - and more as the software that drives the box continues to evolve.

dBerriff
2009-07-02, 14:26
My personal thoughts are that the hardware is brilliant - I have been using an SB3 with great success for the last 2.5 years and more recently a Boom too. I love them both but...

Logitech are at the mercy of 3rd party hardware and software for the success of the overall system. When it does all work the "system" is unbeatable in terms of quality for the investment made; when it doesn't work it is enough to make the cost of a Sonos bundle look attractive.

I agree with the comment that Linux works best. My Ubuntu Server, running on a powerful but cheap Dell server, works perfectly but took a bit of head scratching and page turning to set up (I know my way around PCs and Macs, but not Linux). My ReadyNAS has been a waste of money on the whole, working but tediously sluggish, especially with iPeng on my iPod Touch. Knowing what I know now I probably would have tried something like the Tranquil PC (in the UK) for decent performance with low noise and low energy consumption. As enthusiasts we will put up with this experimentation although I resent wasting money, of course.

If Logitech want to stay with the "enthusiast" community then fair enough but if they want to work with what must be a growing market then surely they need to offer a turnkey solution. Given their commercial size and prestige I would have thought this would be quite easy to do. With companies such as Linn and Meridian offering high-end solution it cannot be too long before other more cost-effective offerings start appearing.

Come on Logitech - you can do it! You have done the hard bit. Now team up with a decent server manufacturer (silent, low energy), put together a working Linux server with a novice-friendly interface for usability. Then add tag, file and play-list management to Squeezecenter so we can just get on with encoding our CDs, sorting out our FLACs, MP3s and play-lists, and enjoying the music. iTunes for the discriminating. Or am I missing something?

On the other hand you can keep this Forum busy with all the problems that people have, many (most?) of which are nothing to do with the Logitech product.

HectorHughMunro
2009-07-02, 14:51
"Come on Logitech - you can do it!"

I agree with that sentiment. There's a lot of work to be done but the project is going in the right direction. The main thing to be achieved is stability; I still have to go round the house resetting everything from time to time though this is getting to be a less frequent event as new versions of Squeezecentre come out.

Some attempt needs to be made to bring in non-enthusiasts.

It's getting there though.

86atc250r
2009-07-02, 15:50
Use SB3, dedicated server (I strongly prefer linux), and wired connections. You will have no problems.

Wireless user & XP here. The main thing is you have a *good* network and a reliable "server" running SC.

My personal philosophy is to wire everything that can be wired & use wireless in places where it is convenient. It is so convenient to have my SBx's connected wirelessly that's how I've chosen to deploy them - and after almost two years of using the products, I've never had a reason to switch any of them to wired as they've been practically flawless.

If you do not have a stable wireless network, you will have problems. If you have questionable wireless gear, you will likely have problems. If you live in an area with lots of interference from other 2.4ghz devices you will likely have problems -- simple as that.

Likewise, your choice in server OS choice is not nearly as important as your server's configuration and how it's maintained. Personally, I run XP SP3 with no antivirus and no firewall on seven year old hardware (northwood 3.06ghz). This machine also serves as a PVR, is connected to one local TV set and two remote ones via set top boxes. SC and my PVR software run extremely satisfactorily on this older hardware and is highly reliable.

I do agree though, that it would be nice for more non-technical users to have a "server in a box" option -- however, it needs to not be a low performance NAS device. It needs to be dedicated, fast, low power hardware running some *nix variant. Perhaps the new, elusive "SBT" will fill this role?

With that in mind, the option to run SC on local, existing hardware needs to remain for power users as well...

sander
2009-07-02, 17:30
Just adding my 2 cents as another Duet user. To me the issue is the powering down just makes the device unusable in many instances, if you keep it cradled generally or use it constantly so it doesn't power down its great.

I use the Duet kind of like I would a Squeezebox touch, really I use it as a screen for the receiver near by receiver in my kitchen, and occasionally for a controller when it's helpful to see more screen real estate. For this its been great, and based on my limited usage its been great, and my girl friend really bought into the squeezebox system with the expanded ui.

That said if it goes to sleep all bets are off. Half the time it can't connect and often it just needs to be rebooted. As it is sitting in the charger it drops in and out of the player list in Squeezecenter.

Now before people accuse me of having some flakey network I have an Sb3 and Boom which are twice as far as the controller ever gets and they stay connected 24/7.

The issue is the SqueezeOS stuff is still pretty primitive and flakey next to the SB2 approach which has been honed over a period of years. I hope it will mature, but time will tell.

ghostrider
2009-07-02, 17:59
I power my controller off regularly without issue, it never fails to connect with any of the three players I have. If you have the controller defined as a player, you will have problems. That function is not ready for prime time.

86atc250r
2009-07-02, 18:36
The short answer to this complaint is that the player feature of the SBC *is* a beta feature and is advertised as such, expect the unexpected.


Just adding my 2 cents as another Duet user. To me the issue is the powering down just makes the device unusable in many instances, if you keep it cradled generally or use it constantly so it doesn't power down its great.

I use the Duet kind of like I would a Squeezebox touch, really I use it as a screen for the receiver near by receiver in my kitchen, and occasionally for a controller when it's helpful to see more screen real estate. For this its been great, and based on my limited usage its been great, and my girl friend really bought into the squeezebox system with the expanded ui.

That said if it goes to sleep all bets are off. Half the time it can't connect and often it just needs to be rebooted. As it is sitting in the charger it drops in and out of the player list in Squeezecenter.

Now before people accuse me of having some flakey network I have an Sb3 and Boom which are twice as far as the controller ever gets and they stay connected 24/7.

The issue is the SqueezeOS stuff is still pretty primitive and flakey next to the SB2 approach which has been honed over a period of years. I hope it will mature, but time will tell.

YanniG
2009-07-02, 23:45
After reading your opinions,I will give a try to SB3.
I am sure it will be easy and fast.

Dingostrategy
2009-07-03, 05:25
After reading your opinions,I will give a try to SB3.
I am sure it will be easy and fast.

This should not offset your frustrations, which were perfectly valid at the outset. We're all just little punters but once again I really feel LT would be well advised to position the SB3 as its primary player. After all, how many people less 'savvy' than you have tried and failed with the Duet. Others here remind us that most of the time it does work, but I think even they'd agree the forums attest to a general disatisfaction, to the detriment of the brand. That's bad for all of us.

I guess the 'touch' might change all this again. Yanni if you didn't see already there is a strong rumour there is a new device to be released. You may like to explore that option, but still for sure the SB3 will do what you want it to.

YanniG
2009-07-03, 06:09
I guess the 'touch' might change all this again. Yanni if you didn't see already there is a strong rumour there is a new device to be released. You may like to explore that option, but still for sure the SB3 will do what you want it to.

Yes, I am aware of the upcoming touch.
I will try the old and well working SB3.

morris_minor
2009-07-03, 08:45
The SB3 (Classic) is definitely the "entry" player to get (notwithstanding the forthcoming Touch - which may be best to avoid for a bit as there are bound to be some issues with it), as it is as near plug'n'play as the Squeezebox experience gets . . .

dBerriff
2009-07-04, 02:43
This thread has got me reading around a bit and I have been impressed about what I have read about the VortexBox. This, it seems to me, is the sort of device Logitech could "approve" and help support.

I have not had any problems with my set-up but I am tempted to switch from Ubuntu Server to VortexBox software simply for the easier configuration (or is the documentation just more concise and focused?).

Jaikoz has sorted out my tag problems - I would still like to see a do-all SqueezeCenter though.

Phil Leigh
2009-07-04, 05:50
This thread has got me reading around a bit and I have been impressed about what I have read about the VortexBox. This, it seems to me, is the sort of device Logitech could "approve" and help support.

I have not had any problems with my set-up but I am tempted to switch from Ubuntu Server to VortexBox software simply for the easier configuration (or is the documentation just more concise and focused?).

Jaikoz has sorted out my tag problems - I would still like to see a do-all SqueezeCenter though.

If by "do-all" you mean tag management... then NO WAY! SC is a read-only tool. This is critical. The moment SC gets the ability to change my music files is the day I stop using it. Not that I'm paranoid...

dBerriff
2009-07-04, 08:25
If by "do-all" you mean tag management... then NO WAY! SC is a read-only tool. This is critical. The moment SC gets the ability to change my music files is the day I stop using it. Not that I'm paranoid...

I most certainly do not mean automatic tag setting - by "do-all" I mean that I would like to see an integrated - or at least consistent - set of tools so I don't get, for example, the annoying situation of the tag tools seeing just short of half my albums as not compilations and SqueezeCenter seeing them all as compilations. It is my belief, and I could be wrong, that if Logitech offered and maintained a comprehensive "toolkit" then anomalies such as this should not arise.

Phil Leigh
2009-07-05, 00:02
I most certainly do not mean automatic tag setting - by "do-all" I mean that I would like to see an integrated - or at least consistent - set of tools so I don't get, for example, the annoying situation of the tag tools seeing just short of half my albums as not compilations and SqueezeCenter seeing them all as compilations. It is my belief, and I could be wrong, that if Logitech offered and maintained a comprehensive "toolkit" then anomalies such as this should not arise.

Ah - I see. You mean SC and tagging tools working consistently together?
What would be really neat would be a "SC Scanner Compatability Mode" in something like MP3Tag - so what it did and what you saw on the screen corresponded exactly with how things would appear when scanned into SC.

dBerriff
2009-07-05, 01:55
Ah - I see. You mean SC and tagging tools working consistently together?
What would be really neat would be a "SC Scanner Compatability Mode" in something like MP3Tag - so what it did and what you saw on the screen corresponded exactly with how things would appear when scanned into SC.

Yes, that is the kind of thing I had in mind. At the moment Logitech rely on third party software for the ripping, tagging and hosting. I am quite happy with my solution, now that my tags are all fixed, but a quick trawl through this forum suggests many are not. If Logitech could bring an "approved" set of components under their maintenance umbrella then they could offer a working turnkey solution while leaving "enthusiasts" the option to choose their own way of working.

And I am confident it would cost a lot less than this:

http://www.russandrews.com/category.asp?lookup=0&region=UK&currency=GBP&cat_id=PSooloos&customer_id=PAA0591079509248XKOONMZEZJKHFIBV

:-)

morris_minor
2009-07-06, 01:18
And I am confident it would cost a lot less than this:

http://www.russandrews.com/category.asp?lookup=0&region=UK&currency=GBP&cat_id=PSooloos&customer_id=PAA0591079509248XKOONMZEZJKHFIBV

:-)

Not only do they sting you 7k+ for the privilege, they have the nerve to charge 250+ to install it - which is not optional. I suppose by insisting on installing it themselves they get over all the niggly problems us Squeeze-owners have to deal with ourselves.

But think of all the CDs/downloads you could buy for seven Transporter's worth of dosh!

Phil Leigh
2009-07-06, 01:30
Not only do they sting you 7k+ for the privilege, they have the nerve to charge 250+ to install it - which is not optional. I suppose by insisting on installing it themselves they get over all the niggly problems us Squeeze-owners have to deal with ourselves.

But think of all the CDs/downloads you could buy for seven Transporter's worth of dosh!

Nice controller though... (pity it's about 2,500 too expensive)

Dingostrategy
2009-07-06, 02:03
bah, that device is for people with too much money. Like Toyota Prius, Monaco, Carbon Fibre bicycles and adequate health care.

agillis
2009-07-06, 09:03
The Meridian Sooloos is a very cool product. But you could build almost exactly the same system for under $1000 using a VortexBox appliance and a MSI touch screen all-in-one computer.

http://us.msi.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=AE1900-01SUS&class=all

morris_minor
2009-07-06, 09:33
http://us.msi.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=AE1900-01SUS&class=all

One of these running Moose might give a nice result . . .

Dingostrategy
2009-07-06, 10:01
Yup - the present is the future. These things are going to pop up more and more as Squeeze interface/storage machines. I can just feel it in me bones. Asus do one very similar to the MSI offering.

signor_rossi
2009-07-06, 13:33
Shuttle also offers it's Dual Core Atom X50 or X 5000TA All-in-One as a barebone version, costs still 400€, though...

YanniG
2009-08-03, 10:12
Finally, after a long trip my new Squeezebox arrived at home.
I thought I had to inform you all here about my process.
After unpacking it, it tool me two minutes to set it up playing...It showed me its pin, so I updated my account on squeezenetwork with this new player and I even turned off my Vortexbox and Squeezebox rocks my world...
Thank you for such a great product.
It really ROCKS ! ! !

Sike
2009-08-04, 13:53
Finally, after a long trip my new Squeezebox arrived at home.
I thought I had to inform you all here about my process.
After unpacking it, it tool me two minutes to set it up playing...It showed me its pin, so I updated my account on squeezenetwork with this new player and I even turned off my Vortexbox and Squeezebox rocks my world...
Thank you for such a great product.
It really ROCKS ! ! !

AND it goes to 11!!